Are WOMEN and MEN EQUAL in the NETHERLANDS?

Are women and men equal in the Netherlands?
Do women have the same chances as men?
How about income disparity?
Are there enough women in top positions?
We asked expats how they experience the position of women in the Netherlands compared to their home country.
According to these foreigners, the Netherlands is quite progressive and they consider it one of the places where women and men are most equal...
However, the statistics do not fully support that perception. Yes, women and men have the same chances at the start of their careers. But once there is the time to have children, most women switch to a part-time position... In the higher management, the share of women is really low, only 11%.
So, even in the Netherlands there is still a long way to go in term's of 'emancipatie van vrouwen) emancipation of women...
This video was publiished on the 8th of March. To all women we wish a Happy International Women's Day...
More #dutchculture videos in the following playlist:
• How do the DUTCH celeb...
Video produced by:
Bart de Pau
(online Dutch teacher and founder of the Dutch Summer School)
Editing: Nicolas Balbontin, Claudia Macchiavello, Kim van den Corput
Music used under license: Bruno le Roux
Video was recorded at the BLC Dutch Summer School in Drenthe.
To know more about our:
- Dutch Summer School: dutchsummerschool.nl
- Dutch Winter School: dutchwinterschool.nl
- Learn Dutch online with Bart de Pau: www.learndutch.org

[@marieketeeffelen9095]

I live in the Netherlands. To hear this from people from other countries makes me happy. My dad and my mom both had a full time job while growing up. My dad at night and my mom during the day. So i saw them both a lot. Now my dad is working part time so he can do more fun stuff. Its weird to hear thats not normal in other countries

[@timm8998]

Too bad about the conclusion.

[@danielbarrett2817]

They r all lying women and man dont earn the same money in the Netherlands if both persons do the same work men get more money than women

[@EyesOfGehenna]

One thing that is worth mentioning is that next to the equality there is also the discussion of whether men and women actually want the same things. Being equal doesn't mean you're the same. So there is a bit of a stress point between on the one hand getting more women into certain jobs but on the other hand not all women necessarily wanting to do those jobs. I'm Dutch by the way but I think that it's important that women shouldn't be forced to do jobs just so we can put a number on equality. Both men and women should have the same options and opportunities but I think it would go too far if we started forcing people into jobs or choices they don't actually want to make. That's why I'm against this idea of 50/50 in every job because some jobs you will have more women and some you will have more men. We just need to make sure that the reasons for that difference are a matter of personal choice and not because of a lack of opportunity.

[@Suztvfan]

I agree. It should me equality of opportunity but not equality of outcome. Forcing someone in a jab just to get equal outcome is't how you want equality.

[@paolagrando5079]

EyesOfGehenna who is forcing somebody else to do a specific job?

[@Gwenangels]

@@paolagrando5079 I've literally never heard anyone asking for strict 50/50 everywhere nor forcing anyone to do a specific job...

[@Wuppie62]

@@paolagrando5079 Sometimes when people are out of a job and receive welfare, they have to apply to or do any job that is available, otherwise they loose (part of) their payments.

[@paolagrando5079]

@@Wuppie62 Sure, but that doesn't have anything to do with forcing somebody to do a job because they are a woman or a man.

[@Leto85]

This is something that makes me feel proud of my country, the Netherlands that is. I really love this channel; you folks make such influential material.

[@jansenquinn298]

Leto85 uhh, lekker ge-engelst man, vmbo?

[@Leto85]

@@jansenquinn298 Moet dat nu? 😂

[@jonathancorwin5133]

@@Leto85 ik zie eigenlijk geen probleem met je engels in die zin

[@bozos5422]

@@jansenquinn298 😂 doe jij VWO dan je bent rustig ook gwn een vmbo'er 🤣😭💀.

[@Guitaro-chopper]

Fout vrouwen krijgen minder betaald voor hetzelfde werk dit moet stoppen

[@danielw7707]

3:46 lol that dog was so random. Didn't expect to see that

[@ohhi5237]

even dogs are more equal in the netherlands

[@vingerhoedskruid1]

Research in Norway shows that the more the genders have equal opportunity the more gender specific choices in education and jobs become. Care is a career mostly choosen by women and engineering mostly by men, given a free choice. So the end of the video "we are not there yet" seems nonsensical to me because we have not defined where we want to be. To me it should be that we want people to have a free choice independent of gender. True equality is not possible because of biological and cultural gender differences, but I believe we have attained the highest level possible in freedom of choice.

[@eblis1965]

Right On! I would love a choice and The Netherlands has IT!

[@krakrakakakakahah241]

Perhaps the pay gab will be closed when men start to work more parttime as well. The pay gab for women in higher educated jobs is a bit weird since usually you are able to set the salary you want. If I was a woman I think I would just tell in job interview you want the same salary as a man in that position. If that is a problem then this is probably not the company for you....

[@stelpie]

In my opinion Jelle is spot on with this comment. At least in the Western world. You can not add all the salaries of men together and then add all the salaries of women together divide them by the number of people in each group and say see there is a difference. It doesn't work that way. You have to look at choices the men and women make and then say there is a difference. Of course if you take a male doctor and you compare his income with a female worker at McDonnalds, you can not say there is a gender pay gap it's a different line of work. So is the calculation with the gender pay gap it's not based on the different fields of work. The actual difference in the pay gap is due to men working longer hours. I believe the difference is around 7% and the difference of men working more hours is about that amount as well. So basically there is not really a noticable pay gap. So as long as studies are committed in a wrong way the mith of the gender pay gap will exist

[@paolagrando5079]

Jelle Alkema I've heard of that research in Norway but I'm curious to know if there there isn't a difference gender wise in how kids are brought up.

[@piminat0r]

It also has to do with the fact that women care more about people, and man care more about things. Hence why women are more likely choose a job where you're involved with closer contact to people and man tend to choose jobs more involving handling things and products.

[@the_w189]

woman can work as much as they like. men do not judge... women who work 40+ hours dó get questions like "why don't you work 4 days... your husband makes enough"..... by other women. I heard a lot of women colleagues say "I don't have to work here, my partner makes enough money". never heard a man say that

[@marieketeeffelen9095]

My dad doesn’t have a full ime job because my mom makes enough money. It does happen a lot

[@the_w189]

@@marieketeeffelen9095 and that is 1 great example

[@TimvanderWeyden]

@@marieketeeffelen9095 And most important part of this, I assume, is the communication and support between your parents. That is where a lot starts. =)

[@sloppyprogrammer4373]

@@marieketeeffelen9095 me and my girlfriend both have parttime jobs because we both make enough and it was, tax wise, barely any different between us working 32 or 40 hours. So why work 40 hours if you make roughly the same 32 hours and give up a free day, so your loonstrook just has a slightly bigger number before taxes. (This depends on the scale your salary is in, though). Having kids, this extra day is worth so much more.

[@gulyascredo]

I'm a new Engineering graduate in France, from China. Lived in Israel as well. Gender equality is one of the most present things in my philosophy and as a woman in Engineering I certainly have some position to say. Gender equality doesn't exist yet, but countries like France and the Netherlands are quite good. That's one of the reasons why I couldn't stay in Israel. The achievement of gender equality needs the efforts from both women and men. Women need to know that you're completely capable of everything that men can do. Nowadays most productions rely on technology rather than physical efforts before the Information Era. I'm an engineer. Lots of things, like engineering, driving and so on, have nothing to do with gender.

[@ravanpee1325]

You're an engineer and probably more than 80% of your class were dudes. So of course you earn more in engineering than in a social field were 90% of the class are women. Just ecological fallacy

[@sebashupkes4476]

France and the Netherlands, worst antisocial and boring countries in the world, so full of themselves... 🤯😵

[@polyliker8065]

TBH, almost all of the statistcs at the end are the result of the actions of women. 1. Women with the same degree have the same chance of gettig the job. 2. Women still tend to take up the role of primary care giver or have trouble working full-time. Anecdotal but my mom and a few friends are perfect examples of this. Two of my female friends have been expressing that they 'need more time for themselves' and have switched from a full-time position to a part time position even before they had kids. My mom and one of those two wanted to be full-time mothers so they quit their jobs. I have only one female friend that is in her thirties as is still pursuing her career to the fullest. For my male friends it's roughly 80% full-time 20% something else. 4. When they expressed that their male counterparts were earning more I asked if they were asking for raises. Two even told me 'I shouldn't have to ask for that', I was shocked. So, take note; ASK FOR A RAISE, THEY AREN'T JUST GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU. 5. Referring to point 2 on this. If you know anything about statistics you know that in a normal distribution the ends amplify the differences in the middle. With the difference of being work centered between women and men on average I don't find it odd that even less women are willing to do the 80 hours week that some men do to get into a top posittion. Now we have quota that are only going to diminish the accomplishments of women who actually worked for it. Simply because of people will start feeling that they are only there to fill the quotum. So I really have a lot of problem with seeing the choices people make and are happy with as a problem. (88% of us dutchies say they are happy) "So, even in the Netherlands there is still a long way to go in term's of 'emancipatie van vrouwen) emancipation of women..." In my opinion this has very little to do with emancipation but more with indiviual interest and choice. I mean if we're going to talk about equality of outcome here don't you think it's kinda self-defeating to say: "By the way... the team of the Dutch Summer School and Dutch Winter School consists of 85% women... So, Happy Women's Day to our teachers!" I mean if outcome is a valid datapoint to measure emancipation then that looks like you lot are being pretty sexist towards men with so little representation.

[@blazingblast]

you missed 3

[@utilitymonster8267]

Poly Liker, women in the Netherlands get payed 5% less in the exact same job, with the exact same amount of hours working.

[@polyliker8065]

@@utilitymonster8267 Read what I wrote again. Women get paid more when they are starting their career (for the same job). Yet somehow men end up outearning women in the same job after x number of years. I am saying that this could largely be explained by women being less likely to ask for a raise. Ergo, the individual choice of a woman.

[@utilitymonster8267]

Poly Liker, so? The result is that women get paid 5% less while doing the exact same thing. But you already agree on that right?

[@polyliker8065]

@@utilitymonster8267 Then what was the point of your initial comment?

[@Morvven]

To comment on the lower income for woman on the same jobs. From what I heard it is mostly coming from men (usually) getting more into debate when it comes to salary, while woman tend to accept what is offerd them sooner then men. Of course this isnt the case for everyone, it is why i used the word usually.

[@spiralofhope]

> while woman tend to accept what is offerd them sooner then men Yes, their slightly higher neuroticism makes them more shy at negotiation.

[@spiralofhope]

> A parental leave that is also available to the father. I bet most fathers will decline. In the United States, as soon as a man becomes a father, he works measurably harder.

[@melissabeekers5487]

this is true tough it is changing. partly this comes from when children boys and girls were giving a diferent kind of upbringing girls were tought to be me quite and polite when boys were tought to be more outgoing and negotiate. however this difference in education and upbringing is changing in the good way and more girls are being tought to speak up as well and hopefully learn to be able to negotiate better. i think this is really just a product of how society "used" to have gender roles but with time it wil become better.

[@pankie1629]

@@spiralofhope it is very common is the netherlands

[@Kvh47]

@@spiralofhope most men in the netherlands do use their parental leave

[@Guust_Flater]

There is no pay gap in the Netherlands....If you work, in the same job as a man, AND do the same number of hours, you earn the same! Stop saying otherwise and do your research.

[@beschuitig]

What your saying is true only to a certain degree, there are fixed hourly (minimum, depending on age and sometimes experience) wages for jobs like working at the supermarket or a call center. But in many functions in branches like accountancy, enginering, software, nursing etc you can negotiate your salary, and statistically speaking are men often better off by a few percentage points. Fan of Guust Flater here :)

[@Guust_Flater]

@@beschuitig That's what I'm saying....if women do the same job as men, they earn the same. In your example they are not the same...some men are selling themself better then some women. If you can negotiate better, you are better and if the job is for example a salesfunction, your employer might find that skill helpful and is willing to pay for that. This all can also apply to women, some women can negotiate better then men and get the job.

[@VeniVidiAjax]

Guust exactly!!

[@Guust_Flater]

@Mark Blokland People have the right to their own opinion, people, including you, have not the right to their own facts. The pay gap is a multi factor issue, not male/female.

[@Mephistoreal]

@Mark Blokland there might be a wage gap but you fail to see why there is a gap. the gap is totally explainable and shouldnt be closed. unless you want to live in a communistic country where there is no incent to make you work harder faster stronger. this has nothing to do with women/men discrimination but more to do with what they are willing to do for their job. thus man and women are equal 100%. so please stop being an asset to destroying equallity!!! go look at the nordic countries,, what you are implying completely failed there.. people are equal but devide themselves by choice.. so no men in teachers positions no men as nurses. getting women on the top manditory would get unqualified people at the top. 1 person in the video had it right.. we are looking for the best person for the job, it doesnt matter who it is.

[@JamesRadnus]

3:46 they're gonna interview the dog too? I wonder what it's thoughts are.

[@emoquent9447]

The dog actually said he thinks the gender issues amongst humans are minor in his opinion. As he emphasized the relativity of the issue, he elaborated with a comparison of the way people treat dogs around the world and then he brought an argument about dog rights and you could tell he really was passionate about the whole situation

[@JamesRadnus]

@@emoquent9447 lolz!!!

[@andykleingotink]

i think germany has more woman in top positions because of the commitment to their work, bit of a stereotype but a stereotype is a stereotype for a reason.

[@mellchiril]

DOGGO!! Most amazing part of this video! I really do think that women are equal to men in this country. I don't think people look at you weirdly when you're a woman with a job in any position. The downside that I've noticed is when you're a single parent who is supposed to go back to work even though your child isn't going to school just yet. No matter the gender, you're supposed to go back to work.

[@3limin4t0r]

A lot of people don't realize that equality of opportunity doesn't result in equality of outcome. Meaning the statistics at the end don't say anything about the opportunities people have. Even if they did, all thing considered everything is pretty equal. Two average are in practice never the same. Take for example the average income of tall vs short people, I'll bet that there is also an income difference there. Let's also have a quick look at the percentage of women in top positions (11%). How do you expect this to be 50/50 when 68% of women work part time vs 13% of men at 31-35 years. A quick calculation shows that this would end at around 27% if we only based it upon the work time, factor in other variables and I'll bet you end up somewhere around the 11%. 27% explained: full_time_women = 100 - 68 = 32 (assuming a pool of 100 woman) full_time_men = 100 - 13 = 87 (assuming a pool of 100 men) full_time_workers = full_time_women + full_time_men = 32 + 87 = 119 percentage_women = full_time_woman / full_time_workers * 100 = 32 / 119 * 100 ≈ 26,89%

[@3limin4t0r]

For the above calculation to be more accurate, I'll need the ratio men/women in the Netherlands and the ratio working/non-working for both men and women.

[@martijnvv8031]

Helping with your chair ??? Do you think you're a princess or something wrong with your hands ?

[@katinss9983]

It is one one the ways that men show respect to a woman. How do dutch men show respect to their Mothers?

[@katinss9983]

@@kitchfacepalm are there any womens groups in Holland close to where you live ,where you can share your experiences with other dutch women and learn from each other and give one another emotional support and growth? I think it would be a very positive thing for you.

[@paolagrando5079]

Martijn Vv. I think they are talking about that because in their country it's what they are use to.

[@robertarisz8464]

@@paolagrando5079 And in their country, do women have greater equality measured in financial terms or representation in positions of power?

[@paolagrando5079]

@@robertarisz8464 Why are you asking me that?

[@Johnny-cz2wv]

Interestjng video with a really weird conclusion ("we're not there yet!").

[@widgetwolftv6730]

The only thing which strikes me as weird is the fact that those statistics never take the personal reasoning into account. One reason more women tend to work part time than men is because they enjoy taking care of the children and that's a choise. Same principle applies for salaries in the same position, men tend to feel more comfortable in negotiating their salary and tend to go a little further with it. The only equation which could be checked for facts based on only statistics is whether men and women have the same opportunities

[@levischuurmans9400]

This actually made me feel touched... I really hope there's no bias. ^^

[@HighTim3x]

Vrouwen verdienen niet minder op uurbasis, wel op jaarbasis. Dat komt door keuzes, niet door discriminatie.

[@eileen8466]

En wat voor keuzes bedoel je hiermee?

[@s.r.961]

The pay gap is because men work less in part time and more in full time, which means we accumulate experience faster which also means we have more pay. Also men are more likely to ask for a raise then a woman. Its just facts. Pretty sloppy research for a teacher. The pay gap is a myth in the Netherlands. Other than that, nice video.

[@Tom-sd2vi]

And they are working overtime, they are more likely to move for a job, they are generally more ambitious, they are less agreeable. Women are actually privileged in the netherlands. As a man, i'm fine with that, as long as the feminists shut their stupid mouth with their lies and complains.

[@s.r.961]

@@Tom-sd2vi I am happy atleast some fellow countrymen still have some sense.

[@sjaaktrekhaak1077]

'The pay gap is a myth in the netherlands' Did you mean 'the pay gap is a myth in west europa and the USA'?

[@StepwaveMusic]

sjaak trekhaak I would exclude the USA, it's different from state to state there and not very comparable

[@herbertkroll1266]

It is a myth everywhere. Feminism is synonymous to 'lying your *ss off to obtain more privileges'.

[@BOSExperience]

Of course it's mostly the opinion of people from abroad living here but still interesting to see. There's actually more women doing higher education than men, but they tend to choose different fields of interest with a different payment. I always encourage women to be the best they can be, but I also like cooking and can do everything myself. Still I hold the door open and present the seat when in a restaurant. A lot of women also can do everything themselves. These self confident women might come across as bossy or arrogant to males that are thought that they rule the house. They are intimidated by it. They can't act out their cultural alpha role here but have to earn the respect of the woman. The Dutch couples work more as a team I would say.

[@autohmae]

For something like this I would say the opinion of foreigners who have been in the Netherlands for a while has a higher value than anyone born/raised/living in the Netherlands. :-)

[@BOSExperience]

@@autohmae I would disagree. Just living here for a few years means you did not have experience with all aspects of lives and therefore your opinion is biased.

[@autohmae]

@@BOSExperience Anyway... the conclusions aren't that different. I think their conclusions were similar. What they maybe got wrong was the details.

[@BOSExperience]

@@autohmae Yes. And I understand they don't know the details. And it can be good to have fresh eyes look at some aspects of life. But you can't judge a society on that. If anything women are massively benefited in The Netherlands.There's a huge women privilege here.

[@lystic9392]

I think a team is the right word for it.

[@elzinga87]

haha ''Dutch men dont help with ur seats and opening doors'', thats bc we actually think that due to the fact women should be treated equal we shouldnt help women with those things bc u can actually....do these things aaallll by yourself just as good as men can do them.. women are also born with arms and legs and can use them perfectly to open doors for instance. u should try it, in stead of looking around for men to open a door for u, then u will see that this is actually no real issue in life and u can focus on the real problems

[@EstherAdriana92]

Also that's not a Dutch thing... I'm Dutch, I've lived in the UK, US and am currently in Australia and no men has opened door for me, and I don't care lol

[@elzinga87]

@@EstherAdriana92 so when do u wanna get married?

[@autohmae]

Maybe what we should do is keep the door open for people, regardless of gender.

[@elzinga87]

@@kitchfacepalm well said!

[@daanlinders7997]

@@kitchfacepalm You are so true.

[@christophervangaal631]

hey bart,, ik ben een nederlander die in rusland is opgegroeid en daarnaast nog eens half amerikaan is .. verder veel plekken geweest maar blij om terug te zijn.. ik heb n vriendin die braziliaans/italiaans is DUS IK SNAP WAT JIJ DOET GABBER.

[@kayleighweyers]

When i hear these people talk this beautiful about our country i just think back in history because just less than a year ago it wad completely different

[@paolagrando5079]

Wow! This topic brought some nice people here!

[@codepenta1736]

The music is perfect. :)

[@GinoNL]

The pay gap statistics are unreliable. Those numbers exclude many important factors which impact those numbers. Besides that, another fun video :)

[@thesammo4499]

I'd like to see the source for those stats at the end

[@Trazynn]

I think they used this one: www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2014/47/gender-pay-gap-fact-or-fiction- They're also creative with not looking what's happening below 25 years, women have a higher wage for the same job than men. So if this new generation is indicative of what's going to happen in the future we may actually end up with a completely new wage gap where men are paid less.

[@ElleCappuchino]

​@@Trazynn below 25 is mostly pre-children. The pay gap difference only exists between women with children vs everyone else: men (with and without children) and women without children

[@zpacer88]

pay gap doesn't account for the differences between part-time vs full time, it is too general it goes away when u compare full time to full time and part-time to part-time, often depending on how u break down the statistics u would find woman getting paid more especially in their twenties when thinking of family is not an "issue". The moment u cross the threshold when most start a family or think of starting a family u will start to see differences...obviously. not to say improvement is not good to strive for but the data falsely presented should not drown out the reasons for the manifestation of any differences.

[@myrthe_9619]

Ik heb een presentatie over de vrouw die hier voor gezorgd heeft Aletta Jacobs! Het is heel leuk om dat nu te zien zo

[@kailenties5295]

One problem here is that women do not make 5-7% less per hour for the same job, it all lies in experience and women also fewer ask for raises, it is by law forbidden to pay less and if that were the case entire companies would have the cheaper women working for them. Just wanted to tell that, cuz I don’t like lies being told. The top positions I can’t speak about tho.

[@midget4581]

Great real honest video! I am glad to be a dutch women because we have it so much beter then a lot of parts of the world❤

[@24nero24]

We are there. But complaining is better than to admit that you are responsible for your own choices

[@aristotlespupil136]

It's actually illegal to pay differently for the same job here. So if it does happen you can simply take it to court. That women earn less on average is by choice of field and number of hours. Ie a free choice.

[@Joe-ff4uk]

Bullshit

[@janmetdekorteachternaam3673]

@@Joe-ff4uk You convinced me with your elaborate arguments disproving the fact that is actually is illegal to pay women less than men for the same job in the Netherlands.

[@foggy4180]

You're right. When a job has a CAO you're paid for the job you do, there's no difference between men and women.

[@streglof]

We have CAOs here (collective work agreement) which makes it impossible for employers to pay women less that men. What salary you make is dictated by your CAO, not your sex.

[@ronrolfsen3977]

CAO's only contains a minimal salary. You can still negotiate a better contract.

[@thatoneofmany]

Would like to get your sources where it states 5-7% less pay.

[@LearndutchOrg]

www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/maatwerk/2016/47/gelijk-loon-voor-gelijk-werk-banen-en-lonen-bij-de-overheid-en-bedrijfsleven-2014 Page 6, diagram 2.1. That is the figure for 2014, the most recent figure I could find. It says that the difference is 5% with government jobs and 7% in companies. The figure is corrected for many parameters - so that people for same job, same education, same background etc. are compared.

[@thatoneofmany]

@@LearndutchOrg These only take the branch into the count, not the actual job. An IT specialist in the goverment makes more then a front desk worker at your local townhall... It is not made well enough to sustain the statement of "the same job". Another example, I do an IT study. Out of 250 students that started we had less then 10 females. Care workers had the same number but turned around. 240 females, 10 males. Care workers get paid maybe 60% of what IT pays... the same problem is still kinda in there. On another count, it will never be 100% equal as that is not possible. And another thing, this data is 5 years old...

[@LearndutchOrg]

Please read... this is not about comparing front desk worker and IT specialist -> diagram 2.1 is the 'corrected figure': copy paste from page 5 and 6: In dit onderzoek ‘Gelijk loon voor gelijk werk?’ is gekeken naar de e ecten van een groot aantal werknemers- werkgevers- en baankenmerken, namelijk: − Kenmerken van de werknemer: geslacht, lee ijd, herkomst, opleiding (-niveau en -rich ng), werkervaring, arbeidshandicap, huishoudenssitua e, inkomen partner; - Kenmerken van de werkgever: sector, aantal werknemers, percentage vrouwen, winstgevendheid, ves gingsregio; − Kenmerken van een baan; beroepsniveau, contractvorm, vol jd/deel jd, soort arbeidsrela e, leiding geven, managemen unc e. Na correc e voor verschillen in bovenstaande kenmerken blij bij de overheid een loonverschil tussen vrouwen en mannen van 5 procent bestaan. In het bedrijfsleven is dat 7 procent (zie guur 2.1).

[@utilitymonster8267]

That one, are you going to admit that you are wrong?

[@roadrage9191]

Who cares about less pay or not, it is equal opportunity not outcome. You want more you demand more. If you are viewed as important enough you get it otherwise you simply make what you are worth to that business. It is every individual for himself in this society!!!

[@Geert365]

1:45 The woman on the right (from viewer position) kind of looks like Beverly D' Angelo. (May be already said that once, thought it before).

[@anoukvanotterloo3400]

As someone who is gender fluid and was raised in The Netherlands I wouldn't agree with the part that you're seen as a human first, and then as your gender. If you're gender-conforming that's true, but if you're gender non-conforming the mentality of "doe maar normaal" ('just be normal') is still pretty strong, and although it's usually only strangers that act like this, it sucks bitterballen to be stared at. It's just much more invisible than it would be in other countries, which is a good thing but also tricky because we think we're completely detached from focusing on gender but we're definitely not there yet in my opinion. Other than that, it's very equal, and when you get to know people they usually don't care anymore.

[@meggink9126]

I am Dutch and my parents both work part-time (4 days a week). When I was younger I would go to daycare three times a week and when I went to school that became after school care. Later my grandpa looked after me and my sister ones a week so then I only had to go to after school care twice a week. The household chores are also divided equally between my parents. Though there are also a lot of families were only the mom works part-time or where the mom doesnt work. Care is also pretty expensive over here. Besides that I also think there is still much inequality on the workfloor.

[@lystic9392]

Bit of a weird question, but do you ever feel like you would have rather had your mother or father care for you 7 days a week? My mother took care of me 7 days a week, and it's tough to imagine how it would have compared to a situation like yours. I would have seen my father more often, and lots of other children/ people, but I think that I am pretty happy with how that part of my childhood played out.

[@Theizzer]

@@lystic9392 I am also curious about your question. In my case my mother was there for me all the time, but my mother and father didnt gave me the safety and freedom a child needs.. I can only visualize but I think it could be ok to go to day care a couple of days a week if you feel safe there. And that if you are home as a child you can feel safe there too. That's what I think... Maybe I am wrong.

[@knowledge1322]

It is nice that here both people work and that we don't really have a stay at home parent, but there is also a down side. If you have kids and even couples without kids still have to work, if 1 works less the pay is less. It's kind of hard to explain because my English isn't the best. But what I'm trying to say is that here you can't just not work. (And at the same time you also do not have to live on the streets, like litterly everyone can have a roof, food or a income)

[@maryhunter6389]

There are stay-at-home parents here. Not everyone needs two incomes.

[@mauriceanton]

Women are not yet there, but what if they don´t want to work 40 hours a week when they have little children?!?

[@MsIsetan]

They don’t have to but have to accept the decreased earnings, impact on career progression, reduced pension and if un married, they will have little financial protection if their partner leaves.

[@JasperAlkmaar]

Their decision. You can’t have all in life. Making a certain decision will automatically have effects. This is with everything, footballers, CEO’s and so on. Also having children is the effect of a decision they made themselves, no one forces you to have kids.

[@okidoki878]

Don’t want to work or can’t work 40 hours ?

[@royhoeksema5720]

Maus anton This has been the main reason for the dutch gender wage gap.

[@JasperAlkmaar]

MsGeorgeSR Im checking out by such a sexist comment like this. “Men force women all the time”

[@cobielangerak8726]

Experience tells me that this is a tough culture in which to be a senior executive…hoping for the best in the next generations

[@dslight113]

i would not mind giving up 50% of the time working if its for my children or if my wife got more working ambition then i do. the reason more women have part time jobs later on its because they don't want/or think its to expensive to pay for a babysitter/ or (what we have here is a sort of a school where only baby's go and there are multiple people to look after them ) in the case both parents want to work. for all i know. its basically the same for women and men. i have worked in more company's where there is a female boss or higher positioned women . i truly cannot c a gap between women and men. and if i ask my coworkers if they earn more or less money. its always the same . only the difference is time spend at a company, and function. it goes like this, up to the age of 23 u get payed by minimum going up by +/- 1 euro a year .after this you get a static pay like any other. female or male it does not matter. after that you can grow in function. and you get more money or raises the longer you work for the company, i never heard or seen someone my age doing the same work earn less money . BUT there are instances that help you look for jobs nad u can get a job by going through those instances, by doing it this way you always earn less and different amounts of money since every instance that you work for will take some money from you for providing you work, and the cost for that is different for every instance. this is my experience and my opinion. i am 31 and am a full dutch guy. hope this was informative.

[@mikehydropneumatic2583]

What about more female brick layers? I don't hear anybody about that.

[@ludovic2431]

What do you expect, the Dutch are a seagoing people and men were often absent so the women organized family live etc. and are since long very independent. It's a cultural affaire.

[@MrSpaceMees]

reason for equality between man and woman here is because we have a sober mentality meaning most of us dont complain about beign treated unfair and just put in the effort to get respect instead of demanding it. sadly there are allot of younger people who have a different mentality because they think american culture applies to us.

[@MeesNukk]

The conversation is purely based on money and salaries, but can men and women truly be equal once children are added in the equation?

[@ecoster9840]

links to the sources of those statistics? cause I call BS

[@TheTekknician]

Culturally we believe that a woman is strong enough to be indepedent and be all she can be. So, of course we can be a gentleman and help you in your chair and all stuff like that. There's still a place for shivalry. But after that, things become logical. If she wants to pay for it, by all means - the guy will pick up the bill next time. We ask for her input in suggestions where to go. Men here do take initiative but the end-result is always due to cooperation.

[@slayerdude18]

1:22 flowers, opening the door, it's different for any person, like i do give flowers. open the door for others ect

[@faceworld]

Like169. Thanks for your information. A new friend from Indonesia

[@stuartredman1550]

Why is this not undertiteld in Dutch? And why do I mix Dutch verbs with English verbs? And why do I speak to myself?

[@HassanDibani]

This is a bit misleading, don't get me wrong women are not free here than most places. But if we would use salary gaps and stuff like that as metrics, it wouldn't look so great. Most Dutch women work part-time and that would show on the pay gap stats.

[@Saucyakld]

Gosh, we live in New Zealand and we are equal, he has no choice, I am Dutch born hahaha

[@aismedddd4516]

So fascinating, I thought so before I left the Netherlands, returning has shown me, women aren’t as equal as it seems. Just look at the Forbes list, only 2 women are ceos in the Netherlands who got there on merit. All others are heirs or through family. This is of course subject and objective , is it better than a lot of countries yes, do we have a far way to go … absolutely.

[@timm8998]

How many women start their own company and how many men do? The difference in numbers there is as big as it is with CEO's of big companies. Are women not allowed to start a company? Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome, is it so hard to understand. Another example, there has been quite a big campain to get more women into IT. And now after many years there are still like 95% men and we gave up. Why? Women dont want to work in IT. Do you want to force them? How would you feel if you are not allowed to do the work you love to do but you get forced to do some shitty job that makes you miserable but you earn 50% more? Is that a step back or forward?

[@klazienaveen779]

We are there actually. Women just choose to work part time. And men choose to work full time. That's not going to change, its a choice women make. My gf and I have it the other way around. I work part time and my gf works full time, mostly because I'm in a it, and can be in part time and still make good enough money, and my gf likes working full time.

[@spacewitch_666]

They ''choose'' to work part-time because of a social pressure. I don't think that The Netherlands is as equal as they claim to be. Most of women here are not financially independent.

[@itzvosje8922]

I think one of the reasons women here work is because it's a really expensive country. There is noway my boyfriend and I can have an okay life and own a house when I don't work

[@lukloek]

Cool videos and generally good to hear. Only last part is a bit off, opinions are opinions of course. But the last shot with the factsheet are not right. First of all you only use age as condition for the first two points. That is especially a miss on the second last point, because young women these days already earn more than there male peers (in general, not for the same job but i get back on that later). The pay gap comes from the older generation of which a lot of women don't work, work less or didn't work all their years, meanwhile the men of that group worked there constant their whole life which results in high salaries. So for this group there is a pay gap, but nothing unfair. It has more to do with life choices, than with gender. These days these life choices can be made more fair then back in the days. Also for most of the jobs there simply is a collective contract/agreement which makes it impossible to pay less to woman. This is a hard myth and doesn't make sense at all. It should not be given as a fact to begin with, because people build their opinions on a wrong fundation.

[@kilygood1689]

I don't regret at all to subscribe this channel and I am very happy

[@Jelisawesome]

3:01 is this true though

[@sonicmiku3009]

3:56. Im a woman living in America and i kinda disagree. Its mostly if you can do a mans job. If you cant physically handle the hard work like construction for example, your not gonna get paid much. It just depends on what your capable of.

[@ravishingravi]

She definitely doesn’t miss Poland too much.

[@EugeneAyindolmah]

They are invaded every 50 years so....

[@oeht87]

Of course there is some difrence. But if i have a companie and i have a top seat vacant and only 20% of the people that are interested in that job is women than ofcourse 20% of all my topjobs is only women. As for the payment. I never say yes to the first option sell yourself as high as posible. I do think that men are doing that more than women. This all dousnt say that all is equil but it put thing in perspective.

[@spacebug31]

11% females in top positions. There are plenty of legit explanations for that which have nothing to do with discrimination. A job in a top position means you have to be ready for your job at every single given moment, that you have to travel, do overhours, be very flexible, and that sometimes means putting your job before your family. Men in the Netherlands might care more for their children than men in many other countries, but it often still comes down to women spending most time with the kids. Most women start working part time after getting kids, as the statistics show, it's impossible to have a top position if you only want to work 20h a week. A top position requires your full 40h a week and usually a bunch of extra hours, work at home, work during the weekend, ... And many women don't want that because they want to be there for their children after school, in the weekends, on wednesday afternoons, during school breaks. Generally, it's impossible to combine a top position with caring for a family half the time. That is why there's only 11% women in these positions, not because employers discriminate against women. As a woman, I proudly say that my career is the most important thing in my life and by not wanting kids, I immediately have a much higher chance of getting a higher position one day.

[@helloitsme7553]

dutch women should watch this video cause theres still a lot of them out there claiming women are discriminated in the netherlands

[@jacobushubertuskirchner9948]

Nice video explaining Dutch egalitarianism and following the great Dutch tradition of nagging about the last few exceptions. But rest assured: Dutch women are very well able to make up their minds about working ft or pt and no ideology will change that. It is after all a privilege not to comply with what statistics or comparisons say. It's just no one's business what men and women do.

[@AuRora-dt3et]

Well Jacbus , the nagging part is not nagging ! You also wouldn't like it if you do the same job as a ( woman)college and you get pay less than here . You would complain too ,it's not fair . Or you can nagging about it ,but that doesn't help you .

[@helenooft9664]

I think it is important that women stay independent also in a marriage and that they have their own salary, when the marriage isn't work, they can support themselves with their own income. I think that is very very important.

[@helenaoliveira9]

You heard of geert wilders

[@LadyYellowBird1]

I think the Netherlans is better than others country because my husband from original there and I knew living in Netherlans is better than in Middle East the most for women and children and also better than in India and China about the rules and solidarity to people and not every country perpect in any traditional oke so don’t judge others country badly because your also not good because I know everything about tradition in every country because I always travel around the world

[@jennyproost2282]

Being Dutch not in every job women earn as much as a man. I have been a teacher and there was no difference. We work on it.

[@autohmae]

@stephan dijk a shortage of enough talented people exists. And only reason women get paid less is because the men are more aggressive in asking for a raise.

[@maryhunter6389]

@@autohmae - That is not the only reason. One of the other reasons is that people think women will eventually get pregnant and perhaps work part-time in future, so they invest more in their male workes. Another reason is that there is still the subconscious idea that man are more reliable in their job than women.

[@autohmae]

@@maryhunter6389 more reliable ? Who comes up with these ideas ? well, I guess so far men have yet to be pregnant. So maybe their is some truth to it at least :-)

[@1lurch11]

@stephan dijk not every job some jobs they pay more cause you work longer at that job. And that doesnt mean they preform better

[@ravanpee1325]

@@maryhunter6389 That's not an assumption, that's reality in many joba

[@dtarmizi4967]

Actually there is a pay gap and also there are less female professors in the university.

[@jellemeeuwissen5335]

It’s really weird that people are fucking noticing the fact a dad is also a parent in holland. to me it’s weird

[@richardhltrp1791]

the top or any other workplace is not determent by sex but experience capability and quality ! if a woman is better at the job she should get it and the other way around !

[@thenonexistinghero]

Women here do not earn less per hour for the same job, that's fucking bullshit. Unless you bring up lifestyle choices that affect the amount they earn, which is an entirely different thing altogether. Someone who works part time after she starts a family shouldn't earn as much as someone who has been slaving away for years who does a lot more overtime.

[@nehajkumar7934]

Heel veel mooi filmpje. Ik houd van jou werk meneer. Succes

[@brainwasher9528]

Love Netherlands, everything gives you the empowering feeling that you really can do anything you wish (respecting common sense rules, of course! ). Coming from a poor country like Romania, it is refreshing to have a new start in life and a brand new future ahead of you. ❤️❤️❤️

[@eileen8466]

Yes, the Netherlands is a beautiful country, but watch out! If you are a woman, never walk outside in the evening and if you meet someone, leave location sharing with someone.

[@the_w189]

damn anne, what happened to you?

[@skippinglegdays8398]

Nobody asked this question

[@Xetiq843]

The only unequal thing in the Nederlands is about the salary. For example if a man and a women work at the same place and the same job. If the man will get for example €40.000 per year a women gets like €36.000

[@freekthierry1904]

Dat is gewoon niet waar anders zouden ze wel meer vrouwen inhuren

[@Lillith.]

Sources for the statistics, please. I am willing to accept them, but only because I read an article about women not knowing how to negotiate for a raise. (Will put a source in if I can find it again, was in the news about half a year ago) That is however not an inequality problem, women are not prevented from asking for a raise, they just don't know how to go about it. Secondly, do women want those top positions? Most women around me don't want to. Should we force them to do so against their will, because it will improve equality statistics? I would rather have someone motivated and capable.

[@spiralofhope]

The uploader replied with sources here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6WXnZRviMuelbc&lc=UgytAVTge6-yWC4h_Tl4AaABAg.8sSeu9iQnDv8sSjWZKELCt

[@spiralofhope]

> societal norms is programming females to be more conciliatory and undemanding Adults have free will; women aren't programmable.

[@MonarNL]

The only reason why there are still more men then women's in top positions is because men more often decide to create there own company then women. And also because men are more often, more ambitious to grow further to a leadership position within a company. Where I work of all the women in my 'team' which exists out of circa 45 people and we are quite. 50/50 men and women, only 1 women had the ambition to become team chef. So a leadership position. And this women actually stopped doing that a while ago and is now just a normal employee like I am. All the other women do not desire this leadership function. While in this same team there are a few men that do have this desire and are actually education the self to get such a position in the future. Ofc this is small scale it's just the team I am in. But examples like this you see in most places. Men simple have more desire for higher functions and for leadership functions then women have. Also you just need to have the best person. If this person is a men, then you are not gonna take a women just to have a women No you are going to take this men cuz he is the better candidate. Ofc this also works exactly the other way around.. There should be no discrimination with sexes, just pick the one with the best skills to get the job done

[@actie-reactie]

We are not there yet.... and where should that be? Like in our company there are only transgender nutral bathrooms.... as if i dont know what gender I am....and first try to get women out of their comfort zone..... a lot of them actually like to work parttime..... the 40+ hours they leave to men.....because they dont feel like working that much.....

[@nicomeier8098]

Please don't start that wage gap myth again. It has been proven time upon time that it is just that: a myth. . There is a huge difference between equality in opportunities and equality in outcome.

[@orriolbohigas591]

yeah well, the "progressive" don't care very much about facts. It's all about their feelings.

[@mikehydropneumatic2583]

01:16 So what do you want then?

[@bestgameplay831]

yhe i aint gonna pay for you if you wanna be equal you pay for your self

[@ironqueen_osrs]

Deze filmpjes maken de patriot in mij los. Voel mij bevoorrecht dat ik in Nederland ben geboren

[@bodigames]

E L ja heb je die conclusie gezien op het einde? Dat is allemaal onzin!

[@sebashupkes4476]

Bevoorrecht om nooit gelukkig te worden... O ja... Als je 65 bent en je leven(lees belasting) voorbij is...

[@bodigames]

????? We do help you Seats? We do help you with opening Doors? We do Give you flowers? Were you even IN the Netherlands??? ( 1:15 )

[@sjaaktrekhaak1077]

I think she was dating the wrong boys

[@silviaperez5752]

Exactly!!!!We are not there yet!!!!!

[@erikabee3498]

We (the Netherlands are on our way to equality between men and women)... but the last part is the most difficult.y If you are a woman and hope to find the most emancipated country, then Iceland might be your first choice. Okay do not go for it for an summervacation... and do not expect an Icelandic pasport for beïng an economic or political refugee. Just because Iceland is ruled by (mostly) women, does not mean that all women are welcome there.

[@puckie55]

Misschien een idee om deze video naar Akwasi en Sylvana Simons te sturen.

[@jeroen92]

I think the answers were a lot more interesting without the spoonfeeding. Once the questions became more directed the video felt less... how should I put it.. genuine? Women have equal opportunities and rights in the Netherlands, they even have more rights when it comes to maternity leave etc. Of course they are not equal to men, that is simply not possible just because of our vastly different biologies. Women aren't in top positions mostly because they choose to raise children, women simply have a stronger maternal instinct than a competing one, men are naturally more competitive than women due to their testosteron etc, this means they always aim for higher salary, better job positions etc, while a woman cares a lot more for comfort, a healthy family and spending time with children. Of course this is a generalisation and not all women or men are like this, which is why it's great that there are equal opportunities for men and women in the Netherlands, if you really want to reach the top as a woman, and have the skillset to do so, you can.

[@Stadtionalist]

In what field do women get paid less than men for the same job?

[@Smetta_Smolka]

Stadtionalist If there was any you would have an anwser

[@humanisanimal3709]

Stripping

[@NL2500]

It is not so much that they get paid less if they are in the same pay scale, for example, that is not allowed by law, but the will less quickly make a promotion then men and therefore fall behind in wages over the entire period that they work until they retire. The numbers also look at the total working population, so also by the age group of 50 ~ 60 plus, fewer women will work in the same position than men in that age group. Furthermore, there will be a break in the career of many women due to pregnancy and as a result, they will have also incurred a pay gap. If you compare that with other countries with the same criteria, we are not doing so badly, but the difference is there.

[@Stadtionalist]

@@NL2500 But that would mean that women do not get paid less, they work less. There is a difference. And stating that women get a promotion lesss quickly than a man is also not true. In fact, by law, women get promotions sooner than men.

[@maryhunter6389]

@@Stadtionalist - Huh, what law says women get promotion sooner than men?

[@aniz40]

Totaly agree with the last words spoken by the last speaking woman!

[@tatjanaarmendariz2813]

The reason women 25 and under have more of an equal job opportunities is do to the fact that the majority of Dutch women don’t have kids before that age; whether they’re married or just paired up. Once children are in the picture; especially in marriage it is expected that if the mother chooses to work, most likely it will be part time, full time is 4 days.

[@timm8998]

Expected or do more women prefer to work part time and spend more time with their kids?

[@105582]

We know men and woman are different but we are equal. And i think in alot of countries they thinks those to things are the same. That is why it does not work

[@Joe-ff4uk]

Because other countries live in the middleages

[@Joe-ff4uk]

Middleages

[@Defhrone]

Vrouwen verdienen minder bij dezelfde baan omdat ze ook ietjes minder uren werken gemiddeld gezien, het uurloon is het zelfde, zo niet is het strafbaar

[@ruurtdevries6]

Wat mij betreft wel!!!

[@ruudvanmanen1012]

That line at the end: WE'RE NOT THERE YET! And that's the truth. 😳

[@TimmyTam]

See, the thing is, we just don't give a shit. Like, you're living your life, and that's it.

[@misssunnydee]

Compared to many of their countries of origin we indeed have much more respect and opportunities. However, the income disparity is still very much a thing, as is the much lower chance of getting hired in top management positions. I'm a highly educated woman (2 degrees & extra certificates), hard working, ambitious and in my particular field I excell in certain specialisations. Unfortunately I experience(d) both the income gap as well as difficulties getting promoted - even over less qualified men. What's worse: in companies with a rather high % of men I was often not taken seriously at all when I started and had to prove myself over and over (remember one meeting where I was the only female besides the secretary. I was actually going to lead said meeting, but the people from outside of the company or new male colleagues immediately assumed I was there to get their coffee and make notes, instead of being only secondary to the CEO. Disgusting behaviour and not that long ago either). The only plus side about it is that men like that always underestimate women (like me) and therefore usually fall flat on their faces when it comes to discussions and negotiations. But it remains very frustrating. I'm well aware of the fact that not all Dutch men are like that, but the phrase "old boys network" or the idea that "women can't do xyz" is one that's still prevailing in too many sectors, as well as too many minds. Sadly the extra result of it is that men who would love to be a stay-at home- dad or become an aestethician (to name sth) aren't taken seriously either or are being made fun of. Men and women should both have the right and opportunity to follow a dream, their heart and talent. For the same salary and with the same respect. We're further than several other countries in Europe but certainly not far enough.

[@melvingamer]

What did the dog say about equality?

[@spiralofhope]

Are baby boys circumcised? How's the sentencing lengths for men versus women? How skewed are custody cases? How awful are divorce settlements? Can men punch women back? Does the law recognize that men can be raped? I'm curious if men have actual proper real legal equality, and am less curious about women using freedoms to make decisions to be happy which skews statistics.

[@DoraM12]

Found the American MRA.

[@anonymous-cx7ng]

Are you serious don’t be ridiculous