Are You Using The WRONG Chain Lube? Ride Faster & Save Money!

[@gcntech]

Have you been using the correct lube for your bike? ⚙

[@justinmilligan99]

Hey @gcntech - if your bike is inside hooked up to a turbo trainer is the distance between waxes still about the 250-350km mentioned in the video or does it last longer without the outside elements attacking it?

[@yogatriathlete]

@@justinmilligan99 technically you are riding 0 km on a turbo trainer

[@lisapet160]

Yes, first of all for my myself, by keeping wet lube only for abused in many other ways cold and wet season commuter. Thanks for explaining what I accessed as miracle when applied wax lube to the chain in the morning rush, giving it couple hours, may be less, to dry and made a "guilt lube" same evening with days to dry. The lube, by feel and sound, stayed unbelievably long. Will be repeating the double wax lube miracle from now on, consciously.

[@Point71v]

I don't wax for more watts, I wax because it is so clean.

[@c.d.j300]

Same here for the most part.

[@stocki_esy625]

And it lasts a bit longer than shaving!

[@YuunaAndCuddles]

​@@stocki_esy625This is a different wax...

[@Gixer750pilot]

That’s what she said 😂

[@matthewnormand2041]

Any video with Josh is bound to be full of good knowledge. The main reason I switched to wax was it is so much cleaner. I was using the Silca Synergetic wet lube but I was tired of getting black grease marks on me and the bike. Stripped the chain and started over with the Super Secret drip wax and I'm glad I did. Cleaning and upkeep is much more simple now. I still have the wet lube as it might be handy in ultra long rides.

[@30nabster]

Synergetic is pretty expensive, but looking at ZeroFrictions they all seem to be terrible ha I saddled up for the Super Secret drip, interesting to see how it goes on the trainer over winter.

[@aluminati9918]

Been on waxed chains for a year now, total game changer! Stays so much cleaner. Main tip: have 2 chains, so there is always a clean one ready while re-waxing the other.

[@KarlosEPM]

I've had identical experience with it. Both on MTB and road bicycles. Cleanliness and longevity are what keeps me motivated.

[@MarcusBrito]

Every program with Josh Portner is a win. He's _so_ knowledgeable _and_ can explain it in simple terms - that's a rare gift. On top of that, it's almost endearing how hard he tries not to sell his own products. Makes me want to buy everything from Silca, so I guess it works :)

[@philchevrier]

The point about time savings regarding cleaning the rest of the bike when waxing the chain is quite valid. Since I started waxing my chain it's one point I've realized: no cassette cleaning, no chain degreasing, every part of the drivetrain stays so much cleaner. Waxing has its downsides of course and isn't for everybody but I'm quite impressed with its upsides.

[@30nabster]

downsides of wax??? I went for the drip on

[@philchevrier]

It's all relative to what you want or don't out of your lubrification protocol but it tends to be more work in total: initial thorough degreasing of a new chain, hot wax baths every 1000km (approx, I drip-wax every 2-300km but a hot-wax treatment is necessary every 1000 ime) is a bit more involved than a quick degreasing with a chain scrubber and reapplying a drip lube. Furthermore, you have to let a drip-on wax dry for many hours instead of reapplying just before a ride like you can with a traditional lube. Also, IME, wax doesn't work well with wet conditions, meaning I usually find I have to clean and reapply if I'm caught in an important shower on the road. The absence of oil also means that in these cases, you have to dry the components thoroughly or surface rust will appear (cassette, chainrings, etc). I wouldn't go back but there are downsides...@@30nabster

[@Chibster83]

I use a drip-on wax. Super quiet chain and crazy lifespan. Thanks guys for this episode, I learned a lot!

[@frazergoodwin4945]

I switched to super secret this year and it made a massive difference on my multiday bikepacking trip. Re-applied each evening and at the end of 1250Km and eight days the drive train was still lovely and clean and well lubed, even if some days the riding was in foul weather. Superb product.

[@colinmcdonald2499]

1:19 I am an expert metalsmith and have a bit of grad level Bioceramics material science/engineering credits. I was going to say: " Nothing with the word 'dry' and 'ceramic' should ever be used as a lubricant. Maybe a milling compound or a polishing agent. But that implies: abrasion. I am very happy they got straight to that point!

[@kaspervestergaard2383]

Are you sure you aren't just a metalsmith?

[@colinmcdonald2499]

@@kaspervestergaard2383 yes.

[@Gieszkanne]

Silca uses WS2 Tungsten Disulfide as additive. Tungsten is a very hard steel and with your logic also very abrasive. I have seen a gun oil test with a Brugger machine. The 3 best gun oils all had ceramic as additive.

[@colinmcdonald2499]

@@Gieszkanne good point. I think studies would also be need to document any wear from tungsten or ceramic lubricants. Long term. For bike drive train. It may be irevelant. Even id the ceramics involved act as microfine polishing agents, the ammount of wear may not be an issue if a chain will be considered consumable waste after 1.5-5kms a cassette after 15 or 20km etc. Perhaps the wear caused by the ceramic compound wont decrease the life of the bike components. Now you bring up machine guns. A quartermaster in Eastern ukraine would consider all the moving parts (not to mention barrels) of guns at the front to have a lifespan in weeks/months or years. But a collector... Might not consider a ceramic compound for a rare mint condition Sterling submachine gun etc.

[@frazergoodwin4945]

Things in drive train lubrication have changed a lot in ten years - even on GCN From WD40 (which Si used to both clean and Lube!) to Synergetic and Super secret. Ironically WD40 didn't even pay a sponsor fee for the mention back in the day!

[@golfstud88]

Remember when Muc Off was the best in EVERYTHING!?! Seems that $$$$ have a lot to say about the quality of a product.

[@johnnunn8688]

⁠,

[@johnnunn8688]

@@golfstud88, I’ve never used Mucky lube but their cleaning fluid is about as much use as tits on a fish.

[@nonamedpleb]

Si probably still does it

[@___Bebo___]

I liked those old WD40 lubing videos those were legit. Used to do my old mountain bike that way every time it got mud on it.

[@johnstrac]

Lubricating my chain is never about Watt savings (I reckon I either get home with someone to talk to or not) it's purely about longevity, I'm not made of chain money !

[@oplkfdhgk]

Yes same and also it much easier to add some lubricant than to replace chain like every week. 😀

[@ltu42]

Start hot waxing (white candle paraffin works great) and see your chains last several times longer.

[@johnstrac]

@@ltu42 I reckon I'd only get 10 - 12 days before the chain needed waxing again, too much faff ! I do acknowledge it's a good thing though.

[@johnnunn8688]

@@ltu42I’m willing to be converted but how do you ensure your chain is squeaky-clean, before applying the wax?

[@chrisridesbicycles]

Josh confirmed my thoughts that drip wax is the sweet spot. It‘s only a fraction of a watt slower and if I invest the time save fiddling around with hot melt in core training, I can easily save more than a watt.

[@ltu42]

Personally, washing the chain in solvents and then submerging in molten paraffin is less effort than carefully placing a drop of lube on each roller.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

@@ltu42 You have to get it off the bike (strictly needing a new quick link) and you have to set up the whole shenanigans before if you don‘t have a lot of space.

[@uncleants]

He's spot on about waxing and cleanliness. Keeping a bike that uses a waxed drive train clean, takes so little time, is so easy and pleasant, even in winter. I actually wouldn't care about watts and wear. Not having to deal with black greasy crap and that grimy coating of ick, its worth it. People make waxing seem far more complicated than it really is, at the end of the day I'd argue its time saved. stripping a new chain with white spirit and rinsing in IPA takes half an hour. Waxing and rewaxing maybe ten minutes of actual work (it takes longer than that, but most of it is waiting). How long does it take to clean a black and greasy chain and all the greasy fug off your BB, rear hub, chainstays, cassette, derailleur etc?

[@frodo5882]

What do you use for waxing? I was looking at the Silca chain waxing system, but it's 100$?! I could just buy four new Ultegra chains for the same money.

[@marcusantonyledulx]

I buy Xylene for $10 per litre & dissolve candles into it. It becomes the same product at 10 times cheaper. *** the other option is dripping a lit candle onto each link. These lube products are priced way beyond actual production costs.

[@tonyhands-heart5492]

Another advert for silica, not biased. !

[@JK-wl5bx]

Thier stuff is amazing in fairness

[@rivnuts7398]

For completeness, what is the watts loss of an unlubed, dry chain?

[@user-dd7vh4wq9x]

I think it was in the region of around 15 watts slower than a factory grease chain

[@Filewalkr]

Keep in mind that over on GMBN Doddy is happily recommending dry lube (different lube sponser...). The idea behind dry lube is that dust and dirt does not stick to it as much as wet lube would. Strange to just dismiss it entirely!

[@2ball434]

Other than shilling though, mountain bikes go through mud and not just dirt or dust. The hassle of wax makes its impractical if you're constantly getting the bike muddy anyways

[@dropbaran]

2:51 clearly, Josh misspoke: “Silca, Rex & Ceramicspeed”. The latter is Silca’s competitor in drip lube category, but for hot melt it should’ve been “Silca, Rex & Molten Speedwax. Anyway, respectable to directly name his strong competitors, kudos to him

[@BrianRPaterson]

Hot wax is definitely the way to go. It's clean and silent. Once you get the hang of things, it only takes a few minutes every now and then. If you rotate your chains, it's even easier - do two at a time. The biggest hurdle is degreasing a new chain (I haven't seen any Silca chain stripper in Hong Kong). But after that, it's a breeze.

[@djkennyg2065]

I found this very interesting. Have not tried a wax lube. I've been using a dry lube for the most part. What I did find interesting from my own experience. Is when I ride in the wet. I would use the wet lube. The wet lube seemed to perform much better then the dry lube. Shifting everything worked better. Watching this has convinced me. I am tossing the dry lube. Next time I am due for new chain and cassette. I will start a new lube and maintenance plan. I am not really about watt savings. My focus is on reliability and smooth quiet operation. This will help. Thanks

[@oplkfdhgk]

Been using wax for sometime. It's so good. With normal lube I have to apply it like daily. With wax I only need to do it once a week at most.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Saving watts comes free with reliability and low wear wax treatment

[@donball370]

Immediately interesting to hear dry lube best avoided. Do like the way that Silca are up front to best and worst

[@andycasier6724]

My experience with drip-on waxlube teaches me that it is really important to let it dry properly for enough time.( Reed 3-4 hours) Like said in the video, a second drip on your chain makes the difference. Next to my roadbike i even use drip-on wax for my electric bike and my daily commuter.

[@richardharris8538]

Life's too short, (or at least, what I've got left at my advanced age), to worry about this. 3in1 oil seems to work quite adequately.

[@edwardjednacz1641]

I started using Secret Chain Wax a while ago and I really like how my drive train stays clean and subsequently less wear, a win -win

[@daveplatten5380]

I agree with everything that has been said here, I just wish as a person working in the cycling industry more people would look after their bikes. I personally use a drip on wax and the Uncle Fester method to achieve better absorbency. Faster than hot dipping and nearly as good.

[@am7265]

For my daily commuter I use a KMC chain with their proprietary EPT-coating and Squirt Wax chain lube. It works wonders for keeping the chain both silent and clean and the EPT-coating itself is incredibly rust resistant year round.

[@DB-sj8km]

You don’t get the little black chunks flaking off?

[@Pastamistic]

I used Phil Wood Biolube for years and it was excellent. I've still never used a more rain resistant lube to ride in wet conditions. Down side is it was extremely hard to keep the drivetrain clean and was especially horrible in dusty conditions.

[@Afrikakorps68]

Finally a GCN video on lubing/waxing your chain!

[@ltu42]

Only because Silca is paying for advertising.

[@Afrikakorps68]

​@ltu42 I was joking. Lately 50% of the video are just on how to wax/lube your chain...hence boring

[@viffer94]

I'm putting Josh's kids through college, bought into the Secret Wax system. But I am sticking to a wet lube on my winter bike.

[@mistermoore5784]

I been have mixing powdered molybdenum disulfide with bees wax in my crock pot for about a decade now and my chains last nearly twice as long compared to oils.

[@rider65]

Maxima chain lube. Wax based. Works amazing. Doesn't last as long as wax dipping, but for the money and performance a hands down winner. Keeps chain and cassette clean too.

[@richardrutishauser4689]

I already liked Josh and then he told us he commutes with his little dog! That is awesome!

[@pdbrum48]

I used olive oil once aswell 😂 better than no oil at all

[@davidorvis]

I almost spit out my morning coffee. Ollie that was so funny. The Lube Father. Made me laugh out loud for real. Thanks for that and thanks for the video guys.

[@junkandcrapamen]

Speaking of vegetable oil, I've used extra virgin coconut oil a few times and it worked well but the chain got super dirty fairly quickly.

[@alexanderscott2567]

I don't get why folks think waxing a chain is such a big, hairy deal. All you need is a mini crock pot for your wax, a hot plate (to cook chains in the garage) and a pot to boil dirty chains. No more hours of degreasing your bike, your hands, your shoes, any piece of clothing that even came close to a chain. I understand that hydrogenated mineral oils were specifically designed for maintaining racing bicycle chains in the 19th century, and were absolutely fabulous at the time.

[@tedmarz7856]

The initial prep is a bit intensive but not hard, just takes some time.

[@makantahi3731]

you just need the whole kitchen, my hot wax equipment fits in shoe box

[@adadinthelifeofacyclist]

Bearing greases next please! I've never been sure about that lithium grease - feels like tippex... 😕🤔

[@frazmars]

I second this suggestion. Good one!

[@mikesuperg]

I do like a lot of Silca’s products. I do not race, and no one with a body like mine is worried about fractions of a watt. But I do ride a LOT and I want my equipment to be as reliable, and easy to maintain as possible. I did use Silca’s wet lube for a while. It is excellent stuff. You could pour sand all over your drivetrain, and with that lube, it’d still run smooth and quiet…that is until every metal part of your drivetrain got worn to a nub. It gets gunky easily, and is difficult and messy to clean. I haven’t tried Silca’s wax products, but I do use Squirt liquid wax lube. It is cheap, extremely effective, and easy to maintain. Chains wear wayyyyyy longer, and of course all the other parts too. Any gunky buildup is easily removed.

[@DB-sj8km]

Disagree with Squirt. It dumps little black wax blobs on the floor randomly. Really annoying when you don’t see it and smoosh it into the floor and your sock.

[@SILCAVelo]

If you like Squirt you will love SILCA or Ceramicspeed. Squirt contains paraffin oil so it holds dirt and gets gunky resulting in the shedding of dirty wax bits. Check the ZFC data, modern wax lubes all outperform Squirt by a good margin and will also run much cleaner.

[@edmundhodgson2572]

I'm on drip wax on all 13 bikes and love the way nothing sticks to it. I do miss the chainring tattoo on the ankle though and all the chains have rust on. In the winter, the bikes are on a towbar rack to the bike park, etc and can get completely rusted by road salt. This never happened with dry lube

[@jaranth]

Fascinating! This was very useful information for me, because my local bike store doesn't carry a wide selection in lube types... so I've been using whatever they had (usually dry lube). I think I'll ask them to get something better now, thanks!

[@sjjw43]

Been waxing for a couple of years & keeping stuff clean is a major plus point. Additionally chain wear seems much reduced. Its a personal choice ultimately

[@cauldron101]

I started using the Silca Synergetic almost a year ago. It is not as clean as wax, but lasts longer and it is a really fast lube. It is so good and it has a lot less fuss than waxing that I find it hard to switch to anything else.

[@frankb.1284]

Silca Synergetic is the way to go. There’s nothing I say nothing as quiet and efficient as it is. The only downside is the price.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

​@frankb.1284 spendy but you barely need any of it and it's significantly cheaper than most per kilometer

[@cauldron101]

@@frankb.1284 It is indeed pricey. But it lasts longer and it also makes your drivetrain last a lot longer.

[@roberttell1587]

I ride in Oregon with weather similar to the UK. I ended up giving up on wax for my commuter. It had to be reapplied so frequently that there was wax gunk that was even more annoying than the oil. I have a fair-weather bike where wax is wonderful, but for a full on rain commuter the oil is just easier.

[@Gieszkanne]

I also live in a region where it rains all through the year. From my research in comments and reviews Smoove seems to be the best wax that hold up in the wet. Its a drip wax. But I have not tried it my self yet, but I will.

[@SB-mg6xq]

I've had nothing but great success using teflon dry lubes. I think listening between the lines, the Silka rep's issue with dry lube is more driven by some sort of perceived environmental agenda than wear and speed performance. I ride in a dry dusty place. Wet lubes pick up grit and sand immediately here.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Teflon definitely works better than not having a friction reducing additive. That said, the problems Teflon causes are as made up as the spherical shape of the earth. *F1 doesn't care about the planet at all. There's good reason they used to use Teflon and don't anymore.

[@paulsymons562]

Drip and/or hot wax for me. Top tip, invest in a hot water tap ouside so you can use a hot hose to wash off the chain - melts the wax and takes the dirt away with it. Has lots of other uses too. I have the luxury of a workshop air suppy so use that to blow out the wased chain before reapplication.

[@fartman10284]

Boeshield T9 is my go to lube for my road bike

[@rg807]

I use Squirt drip on wax. It's been great.

[@starlitshadows]

Never heard him mention a double coat for drip wax. But he has mentioned before they penetrate better in warmer temps. I warm up some water and let the container sit in a coffee cup for 5 or 10 min before I apply. On the list of best lubes Squirt and Smoove are just below the products he mentioned and I believe UFO so I went for Smoove to save some money. Been working well for me.

[@andrewmcalister3462]

I listen to Josh's Marginal Gains podcast, and it's probably only in the last 6-12 months that he has been advocating multiple applications of the drip on wax.

[@starlitshadows]

@@andrewmcalister3462 Oh ok. I'm guessing you give it a few hours to dry then reapply? I'm going to give it a shot. My only concern is ending up with too much buildup but I'm still going to try it and see how it turns out.

[@johnnunn8688]

It’s not about warming the product. Use a hair dryer to warm the chain.

[@starlitshadows]

@@johnnunn8688 I can try that too

[@Saladh_Olivier]

I even wax chains on my Brompton 😁thanks Josh and many thanks to ZFC 🙏

[@lexington476]

Yeah this is going way too deep on the chain lubrication 😀. I'll keep using the same ineffective dry chain lube I've used forever 😎.

[@01FozzyS]

This. lol

[@veganpotterthevegan]

I have lots of Muc Off dry. I bought a case of it. The only thing I use it for now is my Wahoo cleats which is probably still a bad idea🙃. I don't wish that "lube" anyone.

[@JK-wl5bx]

If you are happy buying more cassettes , chains and chain rings go for it

[@lexington476]

@@JK-wl5bx my 2018 Felt still has its original chainrings on it, and that bike probably has 10 to 20,000 miles on it. I think the conventional chain loop Works fine, they're overselling products and getting kickbacks.

[@JK-wl5bx]

@lexington476 whatever works for you buddy

[@rondo761]

I think this video finally tells us what the most important aspect of a chain lube is - sponsorship!

[@steveherring8494]

afternoon, ive been riding a motorcycle since 1978. the motorcycle i was riding was a kawasaki kz-1000 LTD the chain on it is quite large compaired to my bicycles chain it is a 630 and the links are the size of your thumb. the chain lube i used on it was tri~flow. when i starred riding a bicycle that's the chain lube i used of my bicycle. it worked very well but it was very messy. i tried dry lube it didn't last more than a mile before the lube was gone and the chain sounded like there was no lube on it at all. so i went back to the tri-flow. so i was back to looking for something else. i got the wax but it looked like a real pain to apply. so ive been sticking with the tri-flow. then Ollie started to just to say the wax was the best as well as the cleanest and it lasted. i have the wax i guess one of these days i'll have to give it a try. the dri-lube was/is a waist of time. glad i didn't buy to much. thanks for your in site into chain lube. the tri-lube is very good too. it lasted for a real long time.

[@francesstager997]

THANKS FOR THAT INFORMATION!!

[@releasethekraken5299]

Cubic boron nitride (CBN) is used to make sharpening whetstone for knives which could be heat treated very hard, way much than any bike chain so no wonder why it will wear it super fast. That's genius to sell bike components.

[@Gieszkanne]

Silca has Tungsten Disulfate in their products. Its also one of the the hardest metals. From that logic it should be bad also. I have seen a gun oil test where the 3 best oils all had ceramic additives.

[@alanthompson9240]

Rock and Roll Gold for me, baby! Been using that shit for years and I love it.

[@larrygrossman8021]

I suppose there are the videos you enjoy making, and then there are the videos that pay the bills. Pretty sure in which category this one resides

[@raginganarchist]

Exactly, They don't even attempt to hide the fact anymore

[@natanaeltzul1-248]

If ceramic components are like rocks, why do some people invest in ceramic bearings and ceramic greases? That explanation leaves me kinda puzzled tbh.

[@adaycj]

In my direct experience they don't work either. I don't ride in a lab, and those things go downhill fast when it gets dirty.

[@Gieszkanne]

I have seen a gun oil test with a Brugger machine. The 3 best oils all had ceramic additives.

[@tomglista]

I have a Teflon based chain lube. How does it do in relationship to dry lubes, wet lubes, and wax lubes?

[@pakelly99]

I really like something called superdrop chain lube. I’ve tried wax and subsequently gone back to superdrop. It’s very clean, in fact, can be used to clean the chain. It’s palpably fast upon (re)application, and versus wax is night and day regards pfaff and time. Superdrop is not as much as 60 seconds start to finish. Run chain through clean rag, apply small amount to rag, usually I try to form a wet patch about the size of a one pence piece, run the rain through a patch facing the teeth side of the chain. Bob’s your uncle and you’re good to go. I’m in Taiwan and I note I don’t see it universally readily available, but if you google it you should see it. It’s orange and comes in a clear spray bottle. Price-wise beats everything else with a big stick too, lasts for ages as applications use so little volume. Just an option.

[@johnnunn8688]

I’m not interested in watt loss, I’m interested in longevity and chain protection. On my ebike I use a heavy oil from Halfords and on my Boardman MX, which I use on the flat, around the village, I use good old 3 in 1, nae probs.

[@harrie974]

I fully understand all the reasons to wax my chains. One of the reasons I haven’t done it yet is the extra costs of the quick links. KMC says to replace the quick links after 3 to 5 times of use. If I would rewax every 500 km and I do a total of 10.000 km with the chain, it will take 5 new quick links of €6 each. A new chain is cheaper.

[@stevehageman6785]

Naturally, they say "Replace often", but I have never had anyones quick link 'disconnect' on me even when they don't 'snap' anymore. I have found that some do wear more than the chain pins, so I always use my chain stretch tool over the quick link also. So IMHO just keep using them, one per chain, replace when the wear is too great. I do carry spare quick connects with me because with the narrow chains I have had the chains break more than once!

[@makantahi3731]

you can do hot waxing on bike by inductive heater, i do it

[@urouroniwa]

I had problems with the editing of this video. Even understanding this is the owner of a sponsor for GCN and therefore quite biased, I felt like the editing was cut off just before he was about to say something meaningful. Especially, it appeared as if every comment he was about to make about wear was removed. I don't know if that's the case (or if it is true, what the reason was), but it left me really empty. The only takeaway here was "Don't go for dry lubes" and "Wax is marginally better for power loss" vs we lubes. I found his comment about olive oil interesting and again I was left feeling like I only got half of the conversation. The compounds added to make it stick to the metal are what seems to also cause dirt to adhere.... Maybe... Back in the olden days you'd hear of people just using light engine oil on their chains. I'd really enjoy hearing about exactly how these lubes work and what it is about each kind that causes problems. It seemed like the guest had insights and even with the biased background it would have been good to get at them. I would have liked to have also heard about how some of the problems with drip on waxes are dealt with. For example, is a double (even triple?) application going to get you off to a good start? Surely you have to prepare the chain exactly the same way you do for immersion in wax -- for exactly the adherence problems. But at that point, maybe you are just as well to immerse it in wax... After that, how effective is topping up with the drip on wax? Is it simply that if you splashed for the wax in the first place, it's cost ineffective not to keep dipping your chains? Or is there an advantage? Does applying the drip wax twice (or three times) make up for that difference? Because, dripping on some wax a few times is less hassle that removing my chain and faffing around with quick links. And, though probably not a topic he's likely to want to talk about, what about just using parafin for the initial application -- just to deal with drive wear and using drip on afterwards. What are the implications there? I don't know. There are so many questions one could ask and it seemed like none of them were asked. Even the information that was volunteered seemed to have been edited out (though it may just be my imagination).

[@makantahi3731]

too much unnecessary theorizing, the chain can be hot waxed on the bike using a battery powered inductive heater, end of story

[@mikeainsworth4504]

I’m looking at moving to wax next spring when my Summer bike comes out of hibernation and gets a new chain (due replacement due to 9000km of wear). A few questions arise from this video. Rewaxing every 350km or so is just over an average week’s riding for me. Would two chains be a good option here to swap over when rewaxing? How do people cope with ultra-endurance/multi day events that exceed 350km where re-waxing isn’t an option? Finally, how does waxing stand up to a typical UK Winter (obviously not a real winter like Canada gets)? My ‘winter bike’ (old loved bike demoted when the new one came along) has the same group set as the summer one (Campagnolo Chorus 12 speed), could I use the waxed chains I would rotate on my summer bike on my winter one or would the different amount of wear on the other components negate this?

[@dantuttle2050]

Back in June 2023 I was doing a 65 mile gravel race in the Sierra Nevada and I used a dry lube on the chain the night before. The conditions were dry and the course was very dusty. Half way through the chain was squeaking so bad I needed ear plugs. When I got home I ordered Silca's wax and got a $15 slow cooker to wax the chain. 3 weeks later I did another race in similar conditions and had no noise issues. I ride my gravel bike in all conditions because it is a commuter bike too & I can vouch for not having to constantly clean it. I coated the chain on my road bike too and could be happier.

[@adaycj]

I have the same experience.

[@birdergirlrs]

The wax-based lubricants you're talking about here are still all petroleum products. In looking for more sustainable options, I've come across Lanolin products. I'd love to see the resident chemist (Ollie) do a deep dive into this.

[@SILCAVelo]

Effetto Mariposa make a sunflower wax based lube that is quite good.

[@makantahi3731]

no, he has hives with bees

[@davidlau2467]

Wished I had known all this a year or two ago 😂. I now have hot waxed chain plus a number of dry lube bottles just sitting around..

[@SMlFFY85]

The best lube is whichever one you have hanging around in your garage or shed when you hear a squeek. The bike industry will sell you snake oil to lube your chain.

[@donschloth5785]

God I love the geekiness of this! More please!❤️

[@adamchurchill9125]

The giggling on that piece is entertaining on its own but the summary of “lube” facts is welcome 😊

[@leannevandekew1996]

Vaseline petroleum jelly is quiet and resists water in Seattle during the wet weather.

[@josiahlomas2111]

I just did a my 1st ride with dry ceramic lube...it was a failure There was what i can describe as lots of resistance....in an hour my chain had some squeaking.....

[@lehtjug]

Rex products work very well for me. For me it doesn’t do miracles for the speed if i use other products, it’s me who slows down the speed.

[@30nabster]

So are we saying cheaper Wet Lube like Muc Off is better than the Muc Off Ceramic or Muc Off Hydro lube??

[@craesh]

What do you recommend for commuting during autumn/winter? I'm still using wet lube. Of course , the chain will collect all dust it can. I service it every ~100 km. I heard wax isn't recommend because you have to dry and re-apply it after ever ride in the rain. Right?

[@oplkfdhgk]

I use liquid low temp chain wax in winter. It is very good.

[@oplkfdhgk]

It works fine it rain and snow and it doesn't really collect dust.

[@DS-um9hi]

Internal gear hub and belt drive 👍

[@oplkfdhgk]

@@DS-um9hi yeah IGH is the best. Shimano nexus 3 is my favourite. It is just so reliable.

[@herculesrockefeller8969]

Research has shown paraffin is the best lubricant, very cheap and easy to get. Wax on!

[@paulb8587]

Would warming the drip-on wax first help with roller penetration and speed up water evaporation?

[@SILCAVelo]

It certainly will, heating the chain first works better than heating it after, and you can generally get a full set in about an hour rather than the ~8hours we generally recommend.

[@RoninCycling]

Does it make a difference if a bike is exclusively an indoor bike?

[@ltu42]

Wax has a slight disadvantage that on the first ride after waxing it scatters little chips of wax around the bike. If you stomp them into the floor or your cycling mat, they're not easy to clean. Other than that, indoors is not that different to clean, dry conditions outside.

[@JFomo]

Speaking of wet and wax, been using UFO Drip Wet Wax for a week now, over 400km with a top upbin between and let me tell you, I'M NEVER USING THAT WET WAX CRAP EVER AGAIN. It's so thick and sticky. Today I took the chain off and gave it a good bath in Turpentine. Took off the jockey wheels and had to clean off all the thick stuck on muck. Took off the cassette and brushed off all the waxy muck with turps. By the end I went through so many rags to clean my drivetrain. Anyways, I picked up a bottle of that Effetto sunflower wax. Supposed to be good. Only got that because I can't find the UFO Drip normal version anywhere other than online. Stay away from that UFO Drip wet wax.

[@ericpmoss]

Same here. A month of Squirt lube and my rear derailleur locked up. Nasty. Hot melt wax didn’t have any such issue. Then again, neither did ProLink - it just smells bad.

[@ortizma13]

Please create a segment called waxing off, for comparing waxes

[@DeveryAndrews]

My average speed has increased dramatically since I started waxing my chain and purchasing an accurate tire pressure gauge and using Silca’s tire pressure chart.

[@SMlFFY85]

Or are you just fitter?

[@veganpotterthevegan]

I'm all for waxing but you're not getting significant gains(they can be measured though) unless your chains were in terrible shape and you were nowhere close to ideal pressures

[@makantahi3731]

how much, 20% faster?, me too if i go to toilet before uphill

[@nikoheinonen7815]

What chain lube for -20 to +5 C temperatures (sleet- snow -ice + road salt)?

[@zedddddful]

That silca stuff is just ridiculously priced I'll stick to squirt reasonably priced clean and effective more than good enough.

[@LouieBaLLz]

You don't want to pay hundreds of dollars for a few watts? The Blasphemy!!!

[@ltu42]

@@LouieBaLLz In all likelihood, friction-wise Squirt is on par with the Silca water wax emulsion.

[@jeffpabilonia]

if point is to apply and get lubricant inside the rollers and pins and not important to lube inner and outer plates, and the wax flakes off as you pedal, what is actually preventing wear to the chainring teeth and cassette teeth ?

[@makantahi3731]

between chainring teeth/cassette teeth and chain is no sliding motion, only rolling, and these surfaces do not need lubrication, and they wear out if hard dirt gets between them, which hollows out the surfaces, so it is better if they are dry so that the dirt does not stick. another way of wear is due to plastic deformation of the teeth, due to excessive load caused by stretching/wearing of the chain due to improper distribution of the load on the teeth and so the chain rises on the teeth where the contact surface is smaller

[@cal82252]

I use Schaeffer's Moly Roller Chain lube. Wonder why they didn't mention molybdenum disulfide? In MHO the best dry lube available.

[@makantahi3731]

because josh puts MHO and WS2 and maybe Ptfe in his super secret candle

[@tintansigloXXI]

Hello, I'm sure this is the most basic question, but how many times can I use my quick link, in the case of waxing my chain or simply cleaning it deeply?

[@tedmarz7856]

Depends on the link. Some are single use, some are limited multi-use and one (that I know of) is indefinite multi-use.

[@makantahi3731]

until it bursts

[@a1white]

Correct about the harmful effects of PTFE, but not all wet lubes contain PTFE. Green Oil for one.

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

The job of the lube isn't to lube teeths where they contact the outer of the chain rollers the purpose is to have the space in between pins & rollers filled so the bush and or rollers "floats" , also preventing contamination. If you take a new pristine chain and pack it with blue grease it would do the same job as waxing, so technically a high quality waterproof lithium grease would be ideal, if you forget about the stains everywhere oeuf Corse 😂 Waxing or wax lube is the key but you have to toluene soak the chain multiple times from factory, never use it as is before waxing and you'll see incredible results, even for mtb with the right wax mix...

[@makantahi3731]

no, both the wax and the grease will be squeezed out of the chain, but the wax will completely fall off, while the grease will stick around and also catch dust and everything will be very greasy, so you will need to clean the bike, which is not necessary in the case with wax

[@BeefPCC]

I know is better but do we really need a sonicator if i want switch to hot wax?

[@makantahi3731]

no, you can wash/clean chain in wax

[@hockysa]

the lube father! 🤣😂😅 there's a catholic church pun in there somewhere

[@xmla358]

I saw somewhere on KZbin Oscar Freire saying that he uses olive oil to lubricate his bike chain throughout his entire career. I think he is the smartest cyclist ever

[@makantahi3731]

once a bike came to the bicycle service center with a chain problem, the repairman filled it with fanta and the problem was solved

[@oplkfdhgk]

wax=best in my opinion but if you don't wanna get that then atleast use something because otherwise you will get alot of chain stretch and that will cause performance loss.

[@justus1995]

i had a brand new CN-HG701 11-Speed Ultegra chain go to a sloppy mess within 20 hours on Zwift. The Muc-Off stuff is going into the trash

[@markusseppala6547]

I would of liked to hear opinions of what's best for the indoor season when dirt is not an issue. Been using squirt instead of melt hot wax what I use outdoor (paraffin) but it's turning into black goo.

[@peternewton2200]

I use hot melt for indoors. The wax flakes that come off the chain are easy to vacuum up, it doesn’t turn sticky and it just simple to drop it back in wax to retreat.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Silca Synergetic. You get a ton of mileage per application indoors and since you barely use any of it, it doesn't attract dust

[@SILCAVelo]

Look at Synerg-E, it's the same additive package and base oil as Synergetic, but higher viscosity so that it won't fling even under the hardest efforts, and if you look at ZeroFriction data, it has the longest single application longevity ever tested at ~9000km per application in clean/dry conditions.

[@yosmanbalza5691]

Gran trabajo 👌

[@timeasom9049]

I have thought about waxing but am put off due to the fact that it needs replacing at 300km . That would mean that I would need to re wax my chain every 7-10 days. There is no benefit to this as I wash and lube my bike after every ride, it only takes 30 minutes to do as the dust does not have time to set. I do live in Spain so don’t worry about rain or snow or even frost so I am one of the lucky ones I suppose.

[@owensnicholas]

I understand this perspective completely. I didn’t clean my bike every ride, but I did quite frequently - usually to clean the mucky drivetrain. I find bike cleaning and maintenance much faster to do with a waxed chain, because the waxing takes far less effort and time than cleaning and lubing with a wet lube. I take the chain off and drop it in the pot. And the drivetrain is much easier to clean. Riding as much as you and I do, there’s also a performance benefit to the wax. Seriously, there’s no downside in your use case. You’re cleaning the bike anyway. Dropping the chain in the pot takes no additional time.

[@stephencharles6932]

Think about a two (or even three) chain system. Then double time between hot waxing both together. Switch them over easily when needed around 300km.

[@simonRt]

Only 30mins? Sounds like a lot. I'm into waxing and the time added from taking off the chain, crockpot, installing back on the bike is really around 3min. Since I don't wash every ride it takes very little time to maintain. Drivetrain doesn't get dirty thus no need to clean it specifically. If I would wash once every 7 rides it'll be around 36min of maintenance total. 3,5h looks bad in comparison

[@Afrikakorps68]

Discovery just release a statement confirming that GCN-wax&lube will replace GCN+. This is due to the very high demand of videos on this paramount topic never developed by GCN staff...

[@guyd4067]

OK I'll bite and try the Synergetic, mainly for the environmental benefit over other oil based lubes. You get one shot Mr P.

[@Gieszkanne]

Synergetic is an oil!

[@PoulHansenDK]

I just went from Smoove to Silca for longevity and cleanliness but am disappointed. The Silca dripwax has some sort of black component in it and when it flakes off, the bike gets dirty. If you touch the chain, your fingers get dirty and then I rode 20 km on wettish roads, no rain and stored my bike inside in 24C and the next morning there were many rust spots on the chain, especially on the outside.

[@SILCAVelo]

Smoove has an oil component to it, which helps it protect from rust better, but also makes it not penetrate the chain and allows it to get dirtier. For modern drip waxes like SILCA, Ceramicspeed, TruTension, you need to wipe the chain with microfiber cloth and then reapply after a rain ride. The dark stuff in the lube is WS2.. it's what makes it beat the Smoove by 10x in block 1 of the ZFC testing and is what pretty much all of the top competitors are now using.

[@PoulHansenDK]

@@SILCAVelo "block 1 of the ZFC testing " ??. Yes the Smoove did get dirty but the black stuff in the Silca got both the chainstay and me dirty from new. Maybe I should just use pure wax and dip it and dry the chain when it gets wet, hmmm.......

[@jeremyemilio9378]

And here I am using motor oil because bike specific lube is overpriced

[@Gieszkanne]

There is a oil/diesel additive based also on WS2 tungsten disulfide like their lube. Smallest container 200ml and you only need 40 ml für 1 liter motor oil. Archoilc AR9200

[@Willdmo]

In the end, a whole life cycle assessment is what we need. How long lasts a chain with no maintenance, with oiling and cleaning and with waxing and cleaning and also give the times used for lubing and cleaning for both options. Another part of the data should be the ml of lube used in the process. With this everybody could rate their precious time and compare where the 3 ways would get you

[@veganpotterthevegan]

If you use cheap chains and cassettes, it's probably not fiscally responsible to wax considering the time needed. If you're using a $60 chain and +$200 cassette, it's definitely cheaper to wax or at least use Silca Synergetic which is expensive per bottle but you barely use any of it. I use it on my indoor bike. It has about 5000miles on the chain and it barely registers with the chain checker and I feel like I could return my bottle for a refund without being questioned because there's still so much in the bottle🫠

[@Willdmo]

@@veganpotterthevegan this might be a good data point, but it misses the scientific approach. I switched this year all my bikes to diy wax (candles, 10% baby oil, MoSo2 as additive). The first step was pain (get rid of the sticky grease, also the factory grease on new chains). The cleaning so far was better though

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@wildmoe5016 buying wax from Silca is honestly pretty cheap. Time is money to a lot of people. I feel better knowing it's been done well and I don't have to do it. Also, your Molybdenum disulfid is probably not nearly as fine as what Silca sources