The TRUTH About Chain Lubes According To An Expert!

[@gcntech]

Are there any questions you want to know about bike lube? Let us know in the comments 👇

[@traderz13]

Why are you only ❤ing comments with avatars of female body parts?

[@My_HandleIs_]

Drip-on wax is my favourite since last summer, including in Swedish winter weather.

[@Jari1973]

Why is sewing machine oil not used (in dry weather, on a road bike)?? I base my question on this. Chain oil cannot be used in a sewing machine because; it doesn't lubricate enough, it has too much friction, it collects too much dirt, it can't handle the heat. The question is not about waxes.

[@ElevationEveryWeekend]

No question, but I have been using the Silca Super Secret drip wax line for almost a year on multiple Bikes (TT, MTB, winter fat bike) and it’s been fantastic.

[@jrmhng]

I've gone through and replied to all the comments asking for the data, directing them to the website. But they have all disappeared. Are you deleting them or is there an auto moderator gone rogue????

[@andrewmcalister3462]

Awesome effort to keep an interview with Adam to 15 minutes. The video editors at GCN megabase have definitely earned their pay with this one.

[@MrVizzle]

Yeah considering that Adam like to talk, easy subject is usually forced to only an hour.

[@stuartdryer1352]

So true. He is a gift to cycling, but he doesn't really know how to get to the point in a video in less than an hour.

[@soumafan]

by shortening him to only 15 minutes, you've likely upset the cosmological balance between time and space! at some point somewhere, time will need to stand still for 45 minutes. hopefully not while i'm stopped at a light.

[@Anihalas]

🤣 funny cause it's true!

[@gcntech]

Adam is a fountain of knowledge! We had to cut some gold out of this to keep it punchy. Would you like a full deep dive with Zero Friction?

[@dakalla]

Imagine GCN would have sent Ollie to talk to Adam about chain lubrication. The video would be 24 hours long!

[@jrmhng]

Luckily Alex was the one who went to TDU! Video probably took an eternity to edit with Adams style haha

[@andrewmcalister3462]

Ollie would still not be back from TDU.

[@gcntech]

Hahahah even more work on the edit 😆 We would love to do a deep dive into this subject if people want to see it?

[@stuartdryer1352]

Ironically, at 6:49 just as Adam says "a good chain wear checker is a cyclist's best friend", a very true statement, GCN in their infinite wisdom manages to show the particular Park Tool device that Adam's most recent video demonstrated to be completely inaccurate! Par for the course, I guess.

[@edwardcullen3251]

What chain check tool should I get? I live in the UK

[@stuartdryer1352]

@@edwardcullen3251 Adam likes the Shimano tool. Also a simpler Park Tool checker. Both are quite simple in design but VERY carefully machined and therefore accurate. He also likes a quite expensive digital one. He had a KZbin video last week on this. He found the Park Tool shown in this GCN video was quite a bit off, but I can't remember if it overestimates or underestimates chain wear.

[@gregtitus2467]

Ditto that observation. The chain checker in the video is notoriously inaccurate. The Simano (or similar no-moving-parts chain checker) is best.

[@Fufux0rs]

I think its more important to know your tool. Like I have made lines with marker to measure wear status.

[@cebruthius]

Shimano CN-42

[@jvogel431]

Adam is a legend. Watching his very long videos is a bit of a micro vacation for me. A relief from the stress of modern life. And, because of Adam I’ve become an evangelical for immersive chain wax. It is a complete game changer. Wax your chain. Ride in the muddy slop. Bike is dirty. Chain is dry and clean. Never get greasy hands again. Put away the rubber gloves to with on your drive train. And your frame and rear wheel stays so much cleaner without having lube splashed all over it. There are no downsides at all.

[@CatManDoSocial]

100%

[@justim4545]

The downside is rust, if you dont dry your chain after a wet ride

[@gcntech]

This is super nerdy and we love it 🙌 Sounds like a great way to wind down! How do you like our chain waxing content?

[@larryt.atcycleitalia5786]

"I’ve become an evangelical for immersive chain wax." You are right, the chain-waxers are a cult. Always have been as far back as I can remember when they were setting their garages or houses on-fire with simple canning wax. But now it's a profitable biz when people pay $50 for a bag o' wax pellets.

[@MrUberboss]

@@justim4545 A chain that has been lubed with a wet lube will also rust. It only a little more resistant towards rust but not for long. Also, that's basically the only sort of maintenance that you have to do with an immersive waxed chain. Chain is wet -> dry with a microfiber cloth and/or hairdryer. No more degreasers and solvents every other ride to get to try to get your chain clean again. Moreover, to properly reset all the contamination is a wet lubed chain, you need a couple of 100 mls of degreaser.

[@ryancraig2795]

Before I got into cycling, I wouldn't have believed that bicycle chain maintenance could be an even more contentious topic than motorcycle chain maintenance. But here I am.

[@johnbienaszii7729]

It's mostly people not applying logic from other areas into cycling.

[@ralphc1405]

I use LIQUID WRENCH motorcycle chain lube on my bike chain with good results I think...

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I wax my bicycle chains but I do put 10w30 on my motorcycle chains 😂

[@sandrasstory4024]

It is just a new industry entrenepuer snake oil sellers like ZFC are hyping up to cash in on peoples ignorance.

[@dakalla]

Instant thumbs up! It's so important to get people to know some insight in Adams work. There is a lot of hidden watts, money and nerves saved for everyone in chain lubrication.

[@gcntech]

Chain wax is the way to go 🙌 What tips have you picked up from Zero Friction?

[@AIRWORX]

Amazing chat, Adam is an incredible source of information and such a friendly sincere guy.

[@gcntech]

so glad that you enjoyed it!

[@adam__smith]

How did you manage to keep this video under an hour? :-)

[@CoffeeTip]

Must have been heavily edited 😜. Well done Adam 👏

[@gcntech]

All in the edit! We could talk all night to Adam 🙌

[@better.better]

I actually found Zero Friction Cycling literally *just* before you went to Australia and honestly the information there has caused me to call into question why I thought the lube I've been using was any good at all! If what he says is true then I would only go through only one drivetrain for every three or four that I go through now, just by switching to wax. That's a similar maintenance life that we were supposedly get from switching to a Gates carbon belt drive, but without the efficiency loss.

[@andrewmcalister3462]

I'm currently on 12,000km on my current chain - still not at the wear limit. Waxing is a huge money saver.

[@gcntech]

@andrewmcalister3462 that's very impressive!

[@ChrisG-r4b]

Well done GCN - great informative content and I have subscribed off the back of this. Been using immersion waxing for the last 5 years and am getting at least 15,000km from a chain before it hits the 0.5mm wear point. Have saved a small fortune by not replacing chains and cassettes.

[@gcntech]

Welcome aboard!

[@brianwright9514]

I have been using Rock N Roll for 15 years and it's been fantastic... My chains last seemingly forever.

[@runawaytrain9794]

Which Rock and Roll? Gold? Or another type?

[@brianwright9514]

@@runawaytrain9794 extreme. Never tried Gold

[@LongbranchOlivetti]

This video seems a bit disingenuous given that your network of channels, for years, told us that Muc_Off was the best chain lube, in the face of all freely available independent testing data. So you and a cohort of other youtubers were the ones repeating the lies. You are the problem.

[@ericpmoss]

Sadly, content costs. Until we go to subscriptions, that money has to come from companies selling stuff. :/

[@yogatriathlete]

At least they're making an effort now to provide better information

[@andrewmcalister3462]

I'll at least give them kudos for dropping Muc-Off, and interviewing Adam as an independent tester.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

The problem is all the people who expect independent journalism for free on the internet.

[@andrewmcalister3462]

@@chrisridesbicycles Maybe they should have a subscription service so we could support more independence. They could call it GCN+.

[@HeibesHealth]

SILCA has been the best for me, and I don’t plan on looking at anything else. The efficiency and how clean my chain and components stay has me sold. I used ZFC’s chain waxing guide and followed it to a ‘T’ when I first degreased and hot waxed a new chain. Worked beautifully.

[@Lacking_something]

Alex, all companies cherry pick and hide data... Food, pharma, tech. That's why you need independent testers, and why companies/governments closing down scrutiny is a red flag.

[@PedroNord]

So as I understand it, some chain lubricants are better than others. Amazing !!

[@David..]

What I’ve learned about chain lube over the years is that everyone’s needs are different. In general pick whatever requires the re-application frequency, installation complexity, cleanliness, and water/contaminant resistance works best for you and go ride. Doubtful anyone out there is winning or losing races due to this stuff and those who are at a level where lube could theoretically impact their results in a meaningful way are likely not paying for their bikes anyways.

[@edwardcullen3251]

But what most of us care about is chain and cassette wear. My brand new bike has a kmc z9 chain and hg 201 cassette. Both are apparently worn out. I have done less than 300 miles in the 7 months I've owned the bike from new.

[@kaspervestergaard2383]

@@edwardcullen3251Get a hub geared bike instead. So much less headache.

[@derf9465]

I've used 3in 1 and gone faster than other riders on lovely machines. Won TT's using 3 in 1. It's just thin oil on a clean chain

[@ChrisG-r4b]

That’s great for you. You would be even faster on a wax lube. Science.

[@bobd7855]

That doesn't mean your chain will last long.

[@ElevationEveryWeekend]

I have been following Adam’s ZFC channel since the beginning, good info, especially if you want to nerd out in the marginal gain space and care about component care and durability.

[@markreams3192]

I use Rock & Roll Gold. I wipe down the chain and lube daily no matter how short the ride. I’ve gotten up to 6 months out of a chain riding about 800 miles a month. I live in Southern California where it’s dry most of the time but it does get dusty. My chains stay clean and shiny throughout their life. It takes 5 minutes or less to do this. It’s well worth the time. I use a chain checker about once a month. When it reaches .75 I replace it. I easily get a couple of years out of my cassette and chain ring.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey! RNR is overall not bad - but if you compare it on the league table - it is now a fair bit behind. It was very competitive circa 15 years ago, but like all things - if its just rest on laurels with no updates and no R&D to move fowards, it will simply fall behind the genuine latest and greatest. I.e take the TDF winning bike from 15 years ago and vs the fastest bikes today it will be giving up a lot in aero from the frame, from the wheels, and a lot of rolling resistance from the tires then vs say gp5000 tubeless and so on. I can assure you that things have most definitely moved forwards with top tested products that have had a lot of genuine R&D and testing by the mfg to be the best bicycle chain lubricants - so i am very confident that if you are happy with RNR gold, you would be doing cartwheels if tried one of the top tested products. Also - note really that chains should be replaced by 0.5 not 0.75 to prevent wear damage to cassette and rings. Depending on cassette most times you should be getting multiple chains on cassette no issues if replacing at 0.5. 4800 miles to 0.75 = approx 3200 to 0.5 - thats about a match for what i used to get on RNR gold with good maintenance in my early cycling days. And thats ok, but nothing to write home to mum about vs top products - i now get triple that.

[@mclaren44]

tru-tension wax emulsion is the best iv found, mucoff was eating chains

[@jrmhng]

Every single Muc Off product tests in the bottom quartile. They even deliberately concocted a testing methodology which is extremely far from real world riding conditions and specifically designed to show their product is the best when it is horrible. Glad you are off the Muc Off stuff

[@grantchandler8294]

Definitely some lubricants are better than others but not all chains are made equally as durable. My sram xx1 mtb chain has lasted at least 10 times longer than my shimano chain and they have both been cleaned and lubed the same with same lubricant. There is so many variables

[@Timo-qb1gf]

Yes they are known to be more durable, also from ZFCs testing, but also not as fast.

[@norbertnagy5514]

​@@Timo-qb1gfim kind of begginner, how much slower they are? Do you measure this in watt lost or something?

[@Timo-qb1gf]

@@norbertnagy5514 yes few watts slower, i.e. insignificant unless you're racing at the top level.

[@norbertnagy5514]

@@Timo-qb1gf 👍

[@sausagesandwichSA]

As an old codger getting back into cycling this stuff just wasn't around when I raced. We simply used a variety of different oils and cleaned the chain often and everytime it rained. I relly can't remember changing the chains that often. I've asked a few people about wax etc. and the general consensus is...for the average rider it's a waste of time. Not a bad idea just not needed.

[@f1acha]

One of this channels sponsors is mentioned positively multiple times in the video. I enjoy a good bit of the content on GCN (and all the presenters are sound) but it is hard to take any of the product advice at face value. Would be nice to see some regular videos without mentioning or showing images of sponsors products. At this stage you might as well just stick "AD" in the thumbnail of every video.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi! Yep for sure understand concerns - hope it helps re this time - there is just a cross over that Silca has genuinely brought to market a number of the top tested products. So ZFC is 100% independent, the test results are 100% independent, and it just so happens that a major sponsor of GCN has multiple products rocking at or near the top of the ZFC league table. This may well have been a nice synergy for GCN to come and visit little ZFC whilst in Radelaide - which is great because now more people know of the independent testing by ZFC, can look up what lubricant of their preference is in say the top 15 - and likely make a switch from either a poor or who knows product, to something that will genuinely save a lot of wear (and thus friction, and thus costs). Hope that helps explain re any cross over of sponsor vs independent content on this one.

[@markcowell8096]

So come on Alex, spill the beans! Top 5 best lubes and top 5 crap lubes.

[@jrmhng]

It's all on the Zero Friction Website. All the hot melt wax lubricants rank at the top. Next is wax drip lube but just take care with Smoove and Squirt as they will need to be applied immersively due to initial penetrating issues. Flower power is the newest wax drip lube and it doesn't have penetration issues. All the Muc Off stuff is terrible. So is Finish Line and White Lightning

[@marklyons4366]

GCN is sponsored so they won't do that. Also spoiler: Muc-Off is generally terrible in ZFC testing, check the website.

[@j.j.vanhanen4336]

Zero Friction Cycling website has all the test data publicly available, highly recommend you check it out! - But since Adam's amount of detail might be overwhelming, here's a quick summary: Top wax drip lubes are Silca Super Secret and Ceramic UFO drip. And best oil based drips are Silca Synergetic, Rex Blac Diamond & Domestique. - And worst, well, generally Muc-Off products perform very poorly compared to their markering hype.

[@Thezuule1]

You have to go to their website.

[@better.better]

I'll give you a hint, the WORST one is the former lube brand that previously sponsored GCN 🤣

[@nickkambitis5340]

Molten speedwax is the way to go for me. Across 3 bikes using 3 chains each in rotation on each bike ( road) I haven’t put a new chain on either bike in 3 years, that’s ( 15-20000 miles over at least 3 years). Zero mess, Clean looking and clean feel to my chains. I measured a couple of chains the other day and there appeared to be minimal wear. I run Dura Ace 11 speed on 2 bikes and Campagnolo Record 11 speed on the 3rd.

[@WesMacaulay]

Many thanks to ZFC for helping me save a ton on chains since I found their test data. Adam - that's money back in my pocket. My choice for the Pacific NW mountain bike trail? Effreto Flowerpower. Was using Boeshield before that, and before that, the useless product known as Muc-Off.

[@DJMSydney]

One of the best GCN Tech videos. Congratulations Alex. Please more content from true independent experts on all things cycling that have no sponsor nor informercial influence. I acknowledge GCN has to pay the bills, but more like this please. P.S. Squirt drip wax gets my vote for best value and best performing product.

[@gcntech]

Glad you enjoyed the video! What topics you like to know more about?

[@Mtbskierdiyer]

He is not an independent expert. He literally gets paid by particular companies to test their product and makes money selling certain products. Why does Adam not disclose this?

[@GetFitwithNatasha]

@@Mtbskierdiyerexactly! Independent is just a marketing term ZFC uses. He is a fishy character IME.

[@doughills8024]

Silca hot melt is my choice. Greatly diminished chain and cassette wear. Worth the investment in waxing. Ride On!

[@liolyne]

I did use Silca drip wax based on a previous video on your channel. Yes it does work but after 50-100km, the chain is too dirty because it catch all the crap on the road and need relubing. The marketing got me into thinking drip wax was the best solution, but in reality, it's not really different than a wet lube, and sometimes it is even worse because I feel like the chain is just dirtier quickly. Now going back to my old wet lube and will not look back.

[@Z-u-m-a]

Useful to know - thanks

[@liolyne]

@@Z-u-m-a don't get me wrong, drip wax feel smoother. But I do think, it require more frequent relubing. For me it's not worth the hassle.

[@SGTTEMPEST]

@@Z-u-m-a You just need to adapt your preventative maintenance. I generally lightly wipe the chain down with a microfibre cloth after a ride and and every few rides or after a very long one I'll use a cassette brush on the chain to get build up off of it (little to no pressure to remove any surface crud). I'll still take that over needing to deal with oil based lubricants and the nonsense of degreasing with the chain cleaner tool.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hi there - just checking were you ensuring overnight set? All wax drip lubricants are wax emulsified in a carrier - that carrier needs to evaporate to get set coating on chain. If apply and ride like a wet lube, it will be like a wet lube re contamination gathering. SS drip stays very clean if apply, work in, wipe excess, allow set. If you did allow set time and had a poor experience - i would write to silca for support and see if they have any input. We sell A LOT of ss drip - especially those immersive wax to use in between waxes (and that is something i also do myself). We get some feedback re treatment lifespan sometimes which is for sure valid, but havent had any feedback re ss drip being dirty, but plenty over time re how awesomely clean it is - so something is amiss if you didnt have that experience - and if not a set time error - i would be emailing silca

[@durianriders]

⁠mate you waffle on more than anyone I’ve ever met in cycling 😂 How do you measure power again?? 😂

[@mistermoore5784]

Bees wax + powdered molybdenum disulfide + slow cooker + acid cleaned chain every 6 weeks

[@andyv6127]

McLaren Vale wine is the best lubricant for my purposes. After a bottle or two, I don't care what my chain is like:)

[@gcntech]

🍷

[@pjdaugherty44040]

My SRAM road chain failed on Muc-off in 2500-3000 miles. Using UFO drip on my new shimano road bike chain got better life, about 6000 miles before a link broke (at the master) and stays cleaner between cleanings, usually after a gravel ride. I may switch to hot wax and top off beween dunks. On my ebike I used finsh line dry and original chain stretched early (3000 miles), but the more pricy ebike finish line lube is great, 5000-6000 miles before stretch, so you save a chain for a little more money, highly recommend. back in the day i used tri-flow, but gets black and nasty very fast, the sweet small and easy use not worth the cleaning headaches.

[@hnurminen]

Finnish brand Rex, with background in ski waxes, doing really well in the League Table. Go Finland!

[@wspmjw]

I'd love to know the brand names/product names of the top 5 lubes out there. The test data's available, unless the expert's company has NDAs with the companies. This would be the most valuable knowledge to have in lieu of personal trial and error.

[@alolympic]

We learnt that it is a complicated situation but a bit disappointed we were not given any tips on how to choose. I guess just look at the Zero Friction league table!

[@dayton.johnson]

their workshop is beautiful and pragmatic. i

[@LindseyH24]

Unreal. Great video

[@kpsig]

I just use the ELF lubricant for motorcycles, for cycling in wet weather. Liquid when sprayed, turns to something like wax after 2 mins.

[@gavinm717gkm]

Watching this while preparing my new chain for a fresh wax. Hopefully I don’t feel like a fool at the end.

[@gcntech]

fool or not? 👀

[@307.William]

Finally getting Adam on here. GOLD!!

[@adamolig3865]

Also shocking is how little the sales and service people at bike shops seem to know about chain lubrication. They know you should clean and lube, but each of 2 different shops recommended to me some of the worst lubes in ZFC testing. First getting into biking I chewed through a chain and cassette way too soon before i really started to pay attention and seek out what a good chain lube is.

[@edwardcullen3251]

So... What IS or are the great ones?!

[@thibaudepeche]

Went to my local bike shop last month, the guy told me to lube my cassette

[@philipshore6924]

Good to hear about real world use. The crux is how long can lube keep your chain lubed and clean ? Wax based performs best for not picking up the crud, but you need to be cleaning it off by soaking in petrol before reapplying. Wax lasts two or three times longer than wet or dry lubes in my experience.

[@Through_Sams_cam]

never gonna use wet lube again. been using Weldite all weather lube this winter. happy with the result. not too MUCKky and dirty like wet lube.

[@hallstewart]

If you use sticky wet lube in the dry it’s a disaster because it relies on dirt and lube being slowly washed off. If you use non sticky dry lube in the wet it’s a disaster because it relies on not being washed out at all. Use the right lube for the conditions.

[@ESHANABROOK]

I just bought, 549152 Silca Super Secret Chain Lube 8oz., hopefully good for road cycling in crappy weather. Greetings from New England, Salem, Massachusetts.

[@SGTTEMPEST]

Just make sure you dry the chain immediately after and lube it as soon as convenient.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

It can be but note that SS drip has moderate treatment longevity - so it MAY struggle in longer wet rides. It also (like most wax drips) - needs AT LEAST overnight set. if it is not set, it will wash out quickly (again, like all wax drips if not set). On the plus side, the refined base makes it very easy to reset post wet ride - boiling water flush rinses to melt off the remaining contaminated wax, dry, re apply - no faffing with solvents. Ie compare to say Smoove - brilliant performance longevity, especially in wet - but post wet ride with all that crap now brought into and locked into set wax - getting that out is not so easy, so re setting a chain back to low friction again post wet ride is a key thing to consider - not just what is good for one wet ride, then expect to just re lube and chain will be ok. It will not be ok - next rides in the sun will be high friction and wear from the contamination the wet ride brought in - unless you remove it - it will be there. Think of say your bearings - if you rode in the wet without seals on wheel and bb bearings - and just then put some more grease in when home - would they be ok, or running with a lot of crap in there causing a lot of damage. So wet riding is always two part considering - part 1) will my chose lubricant last the conditions and length of my wet rides and 2) how easy is it for me to reset back to low friction and wear post wet conditions ride. The example with smoove - that is a tough clean, you cant just melt it off, smoove released smoove prep to help clean smoove chains as it is tougher than most to dissolve off - so thats the balance aspect for you choice. but give ss drip it set time, and if it lasts your rides, it will be great.

[@brianrichards350]

It seems that much of the data for wear and/or watt loss is done at a 250 watt base. Do the results track for lower or higher powers and wear surface pressures? Like, does wax actually still lead the table at 100 watts where much ride time is spent?

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

great question - 250w is sort of the defacto test load (started with Friction Facts). Load for sure has a big impact on friction and wear, and treatment lifespans. We dont have the data to give an exact extrapolation - but more or less if one keeps the chain properly lubricated and keeping contamination running as part of the lubricant to a minimum - then if one double the load - wear rate would NOT double - the chain would still be protected. But - treatment lifespan MAY (will vary by product) approx half - so that needs to be simply factored in to ensure chain lubricated as needed deep inside. This mostly presents with e-bikes. Ie if on and analogue MTB one is going 8 hours on a wax treatment, they should look to bring that down to circa 4hrs on a e-mtb. If one was only doing light loads, then treatment lifespan keep all parts protected from wear could be much longer etc. Hope that helps!

[@warrenyoung173]

​​@@zerofrictioncycling992 As I understand it, there is a load (pressure), for a given active compound, at which the molecules disintegrate and lose effectiveness. I'm not at risk of invalidating tests @250W. 😢

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@warrenyoung173 yes for sure. To a great extent some of the top products for cycling are well validated from field testing - especially say track where small equipment changes can be detected. If a lubricant was struggling at high powers the world class track sprinters put out, an anomaly re where did 10w or 5w etc suddenly go? Thats why still over the last decade almost all world records, gold medals, etc are on wax chains. But it is indeed possible that some products that test well at normal testing loads may comparatively struggle vs others at very high loads - we just dont have that testing done yet. I have heard a test machine may (may...) be coming that can test at up to 2000w, but waiting to hear more. Mostly though friction and wear will increase with load- not linearly - but we know its going to go up. So if a lubricant is great at 250w, and another is a liquid bastard file at 250w, that bastard file will be striving for its angle grinder badge at higher loads.

[@ArtVandelayAU]

rock n roll gold cleans the chain too so you have to factor in cleaning the chain cost with other lubes

[@debreczi2]

Wow, excellent video! I also checked out his website with all the reviews. It's mindblowing. I'm going to switch lubes for sure. :)

[@gcntech]

Glad it was helpful!

[@stergioser]

5w30 longlife full synthetic engine oil for my mtb chain. Not much rides, but from 2013... My technician told me it's like a new.

[@papalegba6796]

Pretty much any engine oil is excellent. Industrial chain lubrication methods generally use non detergent petroleum oil, with the viscosity dependent on operating temperature. That gives maximum wear resistance. SAE 20 best for cycling imo, it's about £10 a litre, but what you use is fine, not worth the expense of buying more imo.

[@stergioser]

@@papalegba6796 Thank you for the reply bro!

[@papalegba6796]

@@stergioser another very effective cheap chain lubricant is chainsaw bar oil. It's stickier than engine oil, so good in wet weather as it doesn't wash off as fast. Popular with smart commuter cyclists A lot of bicycle specific oils are just standard industrial formulas with a bit of thinner and colour added, given huge mark ups imo. Don't let anyone tell you that using 5w30 is bad practice tho, it's good stuff.

[@stergioser]

@@papalegba6796 I use Husqvarna chain oil for my Husqvarna chainsaw. I think it's SAE 30. I will try it in the future. Thank you again!

[@papalegba6796]

@@stergioser See? You got plenty good oil without spending a penny lol. The chainsaw oil is a bit sticky, don't penetrate like engine oil, what a lot of guys do is add a bit of thinner like white spirit or gasoline, then mix it up before applying. That way the oil gets into the links then the thinner evaporates, leaving the thick stuff where it needs to be. Only trouble is you have to leave it a few hours for the thinner to evaporate so it best done at the end of the day. This is supposedly the best bike oil possible but I never tried it I just use SAE 20 either every wet ride or once a week. I got plenty it will last me forever 😂

[@clearlyabot]

Thank you for these style of videos! Yes it’s kinda an ad, but it opens a rabbit hole to enjoy riding more and maybe saving $

[@jrmhng]

This is as far from an ad as possible. They are interviewing an independent tester. Adam / ZFC has a lot of integrity. What about this video made you feel like it's an add?

[@chrisfawcett6426]

Excellent video & information as usual. I use Silca Super Secret Chain Lube & Hot Wax. 9 months of use and I won't go back to wet lubes! Quiet & lasts well & easy to apply but the best thing is I don't get any more complaints from "The Management" that the cat has oil on his back! 😀

[@gcntech]

we bet the cat is happy too!

[@Bertie..]

WD40 wet lube has an amazing smell. I love the scent. It works great for winter riding, In the summer I wax.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

As much as I value independent testing and repeatable testing protocols, I question some of the practical value. I will not ride my bike 500km without washing it (and washing the lube away and re-lubing) so a lube that lasts 500km is like the „up to 500 hours“ deodorant. As long as I am not fit enough to ride the Transcontinental, the differences might not be significant to me.

[@jrmhng]

The testing protocol is separated into blocks for consistency and so that it is long enough that results don't just fall into a statistical error. With some of the advancement in lubes, 500km is actually not long enough now. For example, the best lubes show chain degradation/elongation at 0% for the first clean / dry 500km block. Note, for some of some of the worst lubes like Muc Off and Finish Line, it's closer to 20% chain life. There is a test called single application longevity which tries to give you an idea of how much you can ride in a certain condition (different measurements in dry or wet conditions). For a fair weather cyclist like me, that is super helpful. So in summary, the 500km block does not mean that if you wash your bike more often then it's not applicable. It's just a testing protocol. Try to understand the testing and protocol before declaring that there is limited practical value of the huge amount of work which has been done. It is really incredibly useful and freely available.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

@@jrmhng Even in dry conditions, I would wash my bike before 500km because of all the sweat dripping on it for example and there will some lube lost in washing, especially with wax. Even though it is free information, it does not mean you cannot question the method and the usability of the numbers. That‘s the basics of science compared to dogmatically protecting a bit of information. If I really wanted to question it, I could also say that the protocol is engineered to favor Silca (which I use amongst others so not accusations please)

[@jrmhng]

I just explained in the previous comment why 500km blocks are used. Please read that again to understand why the testing protocol is applicable to you even if you wash your bike more often than 500km. Also a bit of sweat probably does not impact your chain wear. Something you can do is to take the chain off the bike before you wash it, wash your bike, then put the chain back on. Then you only have to lube the chain based on the single application longevity testing. It's not just Silca which tests well. It's almost all hot melt wax products from other companies. Followed by wax drip lubes. They even tested bulk paraffin wax which is better than many oil based products. Silca sponsors GCN but it does not sponsor ZFC. They do pay for ZFC testing but other companies are free to do so. If you are making the accusation that the testing protocol is biased, then please go through the published methodology and explain why and how you would change the methodology. And run the testing yourself, and publish the results. That's the scientific methodology that you refer to.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

@@jrmhng We just don‘t know what would happen if the lubes were applied every 200km or so. You could guess that the order would not change and it is a reasonable assumption. By washing, I don‘t really care about my chain, it‘s more about things like the bottle cage mounts starting to corrode. On the term of taking the chain off, in this case we have to start discussing about re-using quick links or not (which Shimano says in the manual) and their price. I had enough discussions about that.

[@jrmhng]

Technically none of the 12 speed chains have resuable quick links per the manufacturer. It's a product liability issue. If it's bottle mounts you are concerned with, I put a little grease on the mounts themselves and the bolts. I live in a humid environment so that's how I protect them.

[@ahenrytheninth]

My touring/daily sees the worst. Fine road sand, dust dirt mud. Rain alot of rain. Wet wax lube, couples times a week. I've never measured my chains, they kinda match tires, every couple of years, time to replace

[@Simon-yl5jd]

Why not tell us how super secret preformed!! Very quick to tell us how good it is. Just like 2 years ago muc-off was untouchable. Advertising joke GCN getting worse and worse same videos over and over should off packed the whole show in and just of kept the app.

[@matthewvelo]

Go to the Zero Friction Cycling website and read their league leader table. Mentioned it in the video...

[@SGTTEMPEST]

9th overall and 3rd in the drip wax category. Silca hot melt is 2nd overall. ZFC spreadsheets are easy to find. *In cost to run/10k km*

[@phillippitts6294]

The better question is , can any marketing be trusted? I have used Silca frame and floor pumps for 44 years. Never disappointed

[@alexgold1981]

look at that magnificent calf! He definitely walks the walk (rides the ride?)!

[@dewindoethdwl2798]

Done some huge tours in Europe and kept my chain lubed by visiting car garages and scrounging a few drops or using the dregs out of empty oil bottles. A good wipe clean before adding the oil. No bother, no broken chain and no weird chain wear rates. Overthinking driven by marketing.

[@ChrisG-r4b]

Hate to tell you mate but you are costing yourself a lot of $ through unnecessary drain chain wear

[@brokenrecord3523]

What should the actual distance be? Not %. I was wondering how to use calipers.

[@mysteriousMatchStick]

When you're doing this lubrication vs chain wear analysis you should also figure in the time cost of the maintaining the chain. Personally I don't want to spend any time cleaning my chain(s), but yeah I have been known to remove the chain and clean it once in a while. With this attitude I don't mind spending for chains because I spend almost zero time cleaning the chain and very little cash on lube. I do however use the park chain took to measure stretch to determine when to put a new chain on, to extend the cog life as much as possible. BTW I ride mainly trail and gravel, a little road, always 2000 ft or more of elevation per ride, use low cost oil like Tri-flow (buy it on sale) and generally replace a chain once a year. Who cares?

[@michaelclark3860]

Late on this one but great video! I’m at the end of my tether with muc off wet lube. Absolutely cakes my drivetrain in its entirety as soon as the weather gets even slightly wet. Have a full silica wax kit on the way as well as my wife begrudgingly letting me dust off the old slow cooker!

[@Flip01]

Adam is proof not all heroes wear capes.

[@paulmorrison30]

I used to use finish line lube but subsequently switched to Muc Off and it appears to work well enough.

[@andrewmcalister3462]

Have you looked at the test data for those 2 lubes? The wear rates are appalling.

[@brianrainey2739]

Do you remember that episode of Happy Days when The Fonz gets on his moto and Jumps The Shark? BTW, I have been using Tri-Flow for years because it lubes my chain AND smells like Juicy Fruit gum!

[@JimKJeffries]

Live off the bicycle in Ohio, been using muc off wet lube, switching to silica synergetic. Running a stainless and nickel chain. Tried soaking the chain in MSO2, for a month (so it would be in the metal), worked fairly well.

[@festerofest4374]

What chain are you running?

[@JimKJeffries]

@@festerofest4374 had to look it up, terrible with names. Connex by Wippermann, they make a bunch of chains. I am using their 10SX. Been flawless.

[@JimKJeffries]

​@@festerofest4374sorry for the slow response. Happy summer. Connex, stainless & nickel. I run a Rohloff rear hub and a Schmidt speed hub in the cranks, so I got almost 900% spread with the chain only going between two gears. Been working awesome.

[@festerofest4374]

@@JimKJeffries Thanks for the response!

[@paterjan9733]

There is no fire and forget lubricant. The drive train is an open and unprotected system. Frequent cleaning is the most important thing. From a technical point of view, a simple mineral oil is sufficient. Biodegradable oil is good for the environment. I clean the chain and sprockets dry (!) after every ride with a brush, cloth and pipe cleaners and only use Rohloff oil. The wear is low, 5,000 km for a chain and 10,000 km for a sprocket set. On the road in any weather. Low wear means low friction loss. More work, less money, less friction or less work, more money and more friction.

[@debreczi2]

Do you really need an ultrasonic cleaner if you want to switch to waxing your chain?

[@Kimberlietriracer25]

Great interview with relevant information. Keep up the good work.

[@gcntech]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Jim-sz7qi]

I wax my own chain. It works great and cheap after a little investment up front of a small crock pot. I can wax my whole family’s chains too.

[@jfischer507]

Any tips on measuring chain wear on a waxed chain? The Park Tool CC-4 measures wear by pushing two rollers away from each other, and seeing how much space can be created between them with the chain in tension. With a liquid lubricant, I imagine it's easy for these rollers to bump up against their pins and give an accurate measurement, but with a waxed chain at room temperature, the wax takes up space as a solid, and the rollers won't necessarily bump up against their corresponding pins. Must I heat a previously waxed chain to measure chain wear?

[@festerofest4374]

Use a lighter for a few seconds on the contact points of the chain checker….just a bit more than too hot to touch will immediately cut through the wax layer for the most accurate measurement.

[@a.r.8850]

Have not tested this, but i suppose the wax is not built up between the rollers "in line" with the chain after use, as it gets pushed away when pedaling. I would be careful with heat. 1. you expand the chain and you might measure more wear than actually present. 2. All the wax you pushed away while pedalling might flow back exatly where you don't want it to be for measurement.

[@adamhuffey7590]

isn't Adam a proponent of waxing chains? Nothing was mentioned about how waxing can exponentially extend the life of the chain when properly waxed.

[@GeoffreyAnnison-mo6sd]

In Australia it is against Consumer Law to make claims on product labels or advertisements which are untrue or misleading - this includes bike chain oils..

[@Destide]

Friendship ended with Muc-off now wax is my new best friend

[@nitrouspeed3583]

I don’t know how you guys managed a 15 minute interview with Adam. Even when he’s rushing over a topic it’s at least 45 min

[@daviddanser8011]

I just WD40 my bikes, seems to work pretty well

[@JMcLeodKC711]

Just in time for Valentine’s Day….”Can Lube Marketing Be Trusted”

[@blaze1148]

#1 Advice: stay away from Muc Off lubes.

[@MrJob91]

Ohhhh yeass real content 😊

[@thomasdavidbassett483]

Putting that blue lube on the wrong way

[@anttitapio4145]

Rex Domestique...hands down the best chain lube (wax)

[@SimonJenkinsjinxsi]

can you just use 3 in 1 oil?

[@mosquitotigre7078]

Oscar Freire used sunflower oil in Spain. When he moved to Italy he started to use olive oil, it was more expensive... I use olive oil, no problem with it. But it is a little expensive. I will use sunflower oil in the future (1,5 €/liter). Oscar Freire, 3 times world champion...

[@jrmhng]

There is a sunflower based wax lube called flower power. It's great and something to consider. Not super expensive but certainly not as cheap as cooking oil.

[@mosquitotigre7078]

@@jrmhng 14€/100ml =140€/l ?That´s not for me 😅😅

[@jrmhng]

@@mosquitotigre7078 take a look at the cost to run analysis. Think about the replacement cost for the chain, chainrings and cassette. If you are using lower end components then a high end lube may not be worthwhile. If you are using higher end components, then it's cheaper to use better and potentially more expensive lube

[@mosquitotigre7078]

@@jrmhng but cheap oil is not necessarily worse lube. And expensive oil is not necessarily better lube. Try to lube your chain with olive or sunflower oil and you can compare. Have you lube your chain with olive or sunflower oil sometime?

[@jrmhng]

​@@mosquitotigre7078oils and waxes are similar except for the melting point. The issue with oil (regardless of price) is that they typically attract more dirt which works its way into the rollers and plates which creates additional abrasion. This increases chain wear and reduces chain efficiency. The idea with hot melt wax is that you dip the chain in the heated liquid form of the wax. When the wax cools, it becomes solid. This is much better at keeping dirt out while maintaining a lubricating layer. Then there is the in-between product where you use a wax/water emulsion as a drip wax lube. You drip it on and the water evaporates so there is solidified wax left on the chain, which is better at keeping the dirt out. I do in fact use the flower power sunflower wax product. I have not tried the oils you have suggested but understand they do not perform materially different than a lot of the commercially available oil based lubes. So I do take your point that it is cheaper and understand why you would want to use it. However ZFC is also testing cheap bulk paraffin wax as a hot melt wax. It performs significantly better than the commercial oil based products but does not perform as well as commercial wax based products. And it is extremely cheap. So something for you to consider.

[@jamieatkinson9288]

Black diamond. All 7 bikes. 600Klm a week rotate the chain

[@manitolas]

When im using premix oil (!) from my 2t mx, the smoothness of the gear changing is perfect, after the ride unfortunately it needs good cleaning 😃 cos of the road micro debris, dust,.. They all stuck on

[@aliperongeluk4502]

Where is the list!?! Do you know what spilling the beans means... disappointing to say the least.

[@matthewvelo]

Go to the Zero Friction Cycling website and read their league leader table. Mentioned it in the video...

[@julian_b]

No marketing can be trusted.

[@zukzworld]

Really great video! 🙌🏾

[@gcntech]

Thank you 🙌

[@868686mauro]

That’s a bloody loud Magpie 🐦‍⬛

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

they are bloody aggressive too. I have started pondering a tennis racket attachment powered by a cybertruck wiper motor.

[@legostopmotionbybarrelprod3523]

So if I understand the charts on the website it's candle wax that's the best/cheapest?

[@nasserkhaja4655]

Does anyone still use tri-flo? Any reason not to? I’ve been using it for years my chains last relatively long and it feels great for my drivetrain. I only ride mtb. Usually clean and lube every other ride.

[@DH-.]

WD-40 gel lube ... I use it for my car , bike, hinges, anywhere metal rubs

[@shamendra.sakthivel]

What is your opinion on hot melt paraffin/candle wax

[@jrmhng]

He is doing the test now. Worse than the commercially available hot melt products which contain additives but significantly better than the old school oil based stuff especially for wet riding

[@dtmateo]

Might explain why my chains that are lubed with just plain WD-40 last more than 10,000kms.

[@Erd_Geschoss]

" a little bit not amazing" 😄

[@kartografist]

So what chain lube is top 3?

[@ChrisG-r4b]

MSW immersion, Silca Super Secret drip wax and Rex black diamond drip wax

[@matteo.ceriotti]

Zero friction *cycling. Check description, multiple times.

[@cookiepuss8182]

All this and no detail info on what was found in testing comparing any brands. So just check the wear on your chain! Get a new one or don’t. Trip seemed worth it!

[@miccascoot]

I've read and watched into this matter, found out they absolutely hate mucoff. I have been riding my bike with mucoff c3 ceramic dry lube for 5000km, bought a chain checker, then ordered a new ultegra 12s chain and the new chain had the same or even slightly more play than my 5000km ridden chain. I guess the most important thing is to just do proper maintenance, because i clean with a cloth and re-lube every 3-4 rides/200km and deep clean every 10-15 rides/1000km and apparently its still as good as new.

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

Hey! Muc-Off for sure have proven a concern for ZFC - a) due to the test results of products tested, b) due to severe concerns around their own testing - for which i have been working for about 7 years to get some straight answers on. if you have been happy with M-O by using a good maintenance regime to keep it from becoming too abrasive - thats groovy, and if you are happy, dont let me tell you you should not be happy. But it is worth noting obviously that the zfc test is a control test. All lubricants are exposed to the exact same protocol. So if a product is literally multiple times less wear in the zfc test - you can expect the same relative result in your own cycling. So i am very confident that if you are happy with M-O, you will be doing cartwheels of joy if try a product that has tested with vastly lower wear rate.

[@miccascoot]

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for the reply! I got to admit the tests look promising, i'll have to kick the bucket the next time i replace the drivetrain and i'll definitely give the good performers a try, but i also got to state that the video's sometimes feel like an unending rant, which feel somewhat awkward considering my experience and make me doubt the testing method comparable to real world use. (Because in the tables i should have burned 2 chains and cassettes by now, which is absolutely not the case, unless my interpretation of the data is totally wrong) But as long as i didn't try one of the fancy waxes, i guess my opinion is on a very shallow testing result. So yeah, i'll be able to reconsider my opinion later this year and maybe i'll be cartwheeling by then ;-) . Thanks for your hard work and keep it up!

[@zerofrictioncycling992]

@@miccascoot My pleasure and yep the testing can not model to any particular cyclists riding - just that it is the closest test available that represents what actually can / does / will happen in real world cycling. Ie the test is over thousands of km's, on an actual bicycle drivetrain, and includes both dry and wet contamination - as opposed to a clean lab test that is very short and only provides outright efficiency - when the lubricant is perfectly clean. From there really it is about it being a control benchmark. All lubricants are subjected to the same very harsh test, and their respective wear shown. Your cycling might be much easier on the lubricant vs the test. Another might be much harder. But if Lubricant X is half the wear rate of lubricant Y in the ZFC test - there will be a strong correlation for that occuring with the cyclist - be it if there wear rate is greater or lesser than what occurred in the ZFC test protocol, as simply the lubricant in the ZFC that performed better remained much less abrasive and lower wear. Your cycling being easier vs the actually pretty harsh ZFC test could be part of the number of parts wear difference, another is what is the wear rate and when are things being replaced. The cost to run modelling is based on replacing chain at 0.5%, that will get say 2 chains to a cassette if ultegra etc. If a cyclists replaces chains at 1.5% and gets a new cassette, sure they may have replaced less net parts as such in a particular time window, but thats because for a large part of that time they were running a clapped out chain and eating through metal teeth of cassette, which is not the most awesome riding drivetrain. I can get heaps more kms from my car tires if i take them down to the metal belt - but thats not really awesome, and could cost me a lot more re accident / no insurance cover. Modelling must have specific rules in place - so the modelling is based on recommended wear replacement mark of 0.5%. hope that makes sense! :)

[@JonathanWDuvall]

Alex, how can I buy your shirt! I love it, dream build layout, as a builder, it speaks my language, size xl 😀