Arkansas Stones Rant And Knife Review

[@lukedupont8564]

I would say those approximate grits you give are much too coarse. People underestimate how fine Arks are, and I think this leads to disappointment due to mismatched expectations. The grit ratings, such as listed by Dan's, may be technically correct, but because the "grit" (Arks don't actually have grit, but we'll say "bumps") in the surface are so much shallower, even a Soft Ark which may technically be around 600 "grit", in practice, cuts and leaves an edge much more like a 1500-2000 grit. I think this miss match in expectations causes people to think that arks are slow, when they aren't actually appreciating just how fine they are. A much more accurate estimation of grit in terms of finish edge, and speed of cutting, as compared to synthetic stones, would be more like this: Soft - 1500-2000 Hard - 2000-5000 Black - 10,000+ Blue Black - Geez, I don't know. I have one of these too and it is indeed insanely fine. 12k+? 13k+? Some blacks are around 12k I would guess, so maybe even finer. It should be mentioned that there are two kinds of "Washita" -- there are modern "Washita" grade Arks, which are just extra low density soft Arks, and then there are true vintage Washita, which are still novaculite, but a different type of stone, being more gritty, and breaking down and cutting much faster and also finer than a Soft Ark. These are superior to "Washita" Arkansas stones, but are not produced any more. I would put both the true Washita and the modern Washita at around 800-1000 grit, but with the exception that the true Washita cuts both faster and finer, and has a more granular, and clear, creamy white or cream with uniformly rusted red (not wave like patterns, but solidly colored) mottling, in the case of the Rosy Red Washita. Old Soft Arks were also sometimes of a more granular appearance akin to the old, true Washitas, but I do not have enough experience with them to say whether they cut any better -- the one I've used seemed somewhere between Dan's soft and hard ark, and of much the same cutting characteristics. It should be mentioned also that with harder simple steels lacking carbides, such as Japanese white and blue paper steels, Arkansas stones will act and cut even finer. They still work just fine, but act as a slightly finer and slower cutting stone, but impart an equally finer edge / polish. Lastly, there are coarser natural stones than Washitas, either modern or vintage. In much of the world over, including America, Sandstone had always been used as a coarse grindstone, often with water rather than oil, and it cuts quite quickly. In Japan, there are many coarse stones such as Amakusa and Binsui which cut much quicker and coarser than any Washita. And, I'm sure there are coarser natural stones from all over the world which I'm not aware of. Anyway, none of this is meant as criticism, just providing information from my own experience and research. Dan's Arks, and vintage Washitas are still my favorite sharpening stones, even after having tried pretty much everything else on the market. Binsui and various other Japanese Natural Whetstones are a close second for me, granted, I don't own any of the very expensive / high quality Jnats. Edit: I might also suggest giving a plain leather strop, rather than one loaded with compound, a try after the black or blue black, in order to gauge the true fineness of the stone. Sometimes I find a loaded strop / compound actually is less fine than some of my finest arks! In which case, I get better results with just plane old leather.

[@offthestone]

Wow Luke, you definitely know your Arks lol. Good info. Yea, my “grit ratings” are definitely based off of Dan’s website. I have another Washita that I bought from Dan’s that is very coarse for an Arkansas stone. It cuts really well. As for those other stones that are coarser, I’d love to try them out! As much as I love my Diamond stones and ceramics, there is something about a natural stone! Thanks for the reply!

[@ared18t]

Yes it is true I have many 1000 grit whetstones and I always go to my soft arkansas after because it is a finer edge.

[@ared18t]

@@offthestone There's a guy In Mexico who sells ridiculously large sandstones through facebook. Problem is you gotta pick it up yourself he won't ship it to USA. He said it's too much hassle.

[@Master...deBater]

100% agree with everything you wrote. I have a vintage Lili White Washita as well as a big Rosy Red...and they both vastly outperform my soft Arks. I also have several really nice Coticules, Eschers and J-nats...including some high-end finishers for razors. And my Trans Black Ark (blue/black) always improves those edges. Good call on the straight leather strop advice...no need for pastes coming off a fine Arkansas!

[@cudgee7144]

In your opinion, what is finer or equal to a higher grit, the translucent or the black. 😀

[@trueblu8]

6:45 Great advice.

[@bamafaninky861]

I agree Rough Rooster is the man on Arkansas Stones. Proud to call him a friend. Hopefully he makes a return one day. I have through Translucent.

[@sharpwhits0167]

I have a bunch of arks. Rooster got me into them as well. I have duplicates of most of most of the grades. I will say this anout them. The results you get from arks are all about what you are asking them to do. I mostly use them as finishing stones and get excellent results. Additionally, they are not for people who have no patience. But if you are willing to give them a chance you can achieve unmatched results.

[@virginia7125]

What are the Smiths white Arkansas stones? Those you can find at Lowe's or Tractor Supply. Are they any good? They're similar to moon stones with the finest grit.

[@offthestone]

I’m not sure because I’ve never used those, but if they are white and are Arkansas stones, they’re probably a soft Arkansas or a hard Arkansas. Both will leave a fine edge.

[@toddcunningham3213]

I'm a little late to the party, but I have one each of the Smith's 6" stones, and then the little 1"x 4" pocket stone that has the yellow case. I would say that they're both a medium grit. I carry the little one with me in the woods if I need to put a quick edge on my blade. But, it has to have a pretty sharp edge to begin with.

[@_Dimitris]

What's your opinion about the black and the translucent which is finer of the 2 ? ? Not the blue black you mentioned the black one. Thanks

[@Master...deBater]

Dan's says his blacks are finer than his translucent. But they are both great stones. It really depends on the particular stones. I have blacks as well as a trans blue/black...the blue/black is definitely the finest.

[@knifesharpeningnorway]

Im drooling over a dans surgical black myself 😁 great video mate 😁 And yeah never heard of anything finer than the surgical black mate. Blue black is on my list now 😁

[@offthestone]

Yea, it’s such a beautiful stone and puts such a fine edge on the knife! I love it. But if you get get your hands on a blue black, you won’t be disappointed Thanks for watching!

[@knifesharpeningnorway]

@@offthestone yes sir if i afford it someday il order a fine and hard black Arkansas from dans

[@NotTonTon]

The stones are so beautiful :c

[@offthestone]

Thanks! They’re pretty amazing. Cool how they all look a bit different and are all different grades of stones for sharpening. And best of all, they put an absolute razor edge on knives!

[@Mackle-b3o]

Do you think the hard black can confused with a surgical black by new comer sharpeners

[@saintofchelseathomascarlyl5713]

thank you it helped me alot

[@offthestone]

Glad it helped! Thanks for watching!

[@gregh4284]

The relative hardness, measured on the Mohs scale has everything to do with whether a stone is too soft to sharpen any particular steel. Imo. If I'm missing something in my analysis, please explain.. Thank you.

[@robertmunguia250]

Do these stones need any type of oil or water? Just got one a Case brand.

[@offthestone]

I used to use only water, but now all I use is oil. Any oil around the house works just fine for me. The reason I switched to oil is the stones don’t load up half as fast.

[@RafaelHe]

They work best with a thin oil. Baby oil, laxative oil, or food grade mineral oil work on these stones.

[@rockets4kids]

The coarsest natural grits are sandstone. They haven't been sold for probably 100 years now (at least in the developed world) but they were the workhorse stone for thousands of years.

[@offthestone]

Thanks for the info, another guy let me know that as well. Do you know what approximate grit sandstone is?

[@1pcfred]

Steel 100 years ago was a lot different than what we use today. I just use diamond plates and ceramic hones. Everything else is a waste of time.

[@MrRourk]

Just Google Nordic Sandstone sharpening stone

[@guitarzarfun]

I ordered a 2"x10" x1" thick black ultra fine from Dan's a couple days ago. I Can't wait to add it as my finisher after a Fuji 8000. (for straight razors)

[@offthestone]

Nice!! That’s a great size stone. It should make for a nice and smooth shave. Congrats and thanks for watching!

[@jeffhicks8428]

12k naniwa super stone.

[@Master...deBater]

@@jeffhicks8428 Yeah...the Naniwa 12k SS is a great stone to follow with my black or trans blue/black Arks.

[@claytonpipesmoker2302]

You should try a pike brand washita.Mine is as fine as my dan's hard arkansas and is totally different than my dan's washita.

[@offthestone]

That would be cool to try out! I’m always down for trying different sharpening stones!

[@shaknit]

I have an ak soft that the surface has gone smooth is there anyway to restore it. Ive been using the edges.

[@offthestone]

I have used sic powder for mine. You can get all different grits

[@GearCave]

I used my black ark for honing my straight razor, it's almost as good as my naniwa 12k, leaves a smoother edge if your a novice, but you can get smooth on naniwa too if you switch directions on strokes to knock down the scratch pattern. Black ark basically grates away the microscopic scratch pattern. So I'd say that a black ark is anywhere between a 8k - 12k depending on how you lap it and burnish it. Alternatively you can check out the Ceramic Ruby stones made by Norton, called the Ascent line. They will do anything and are practically hard as diamond. Lap them with the correct grit and you have a stone with that grit, hard as diamond.

[@offthestone]

Thanks for sharing! That’s really cool about those Norton ruby stones! Kinda reminds me of what Gabriel from natural whetstone sharpening advertises with those Jasper stones. I wouldn’t mind checking out those rubies.

[@GearCave]

@@offthestone I heard about the Jasper stones but I never found one large enough to buy, but I'm positive that the Norton Ascent line is gotta be harder. It's Aluminum Oxide that's been melted down which forms Ruby essentially. It's man made Ruby.

[@zenrazor659]

Could you hone a straight razor startng from the bevel?🎉 It would be instructive!!!🎉

[@behike4425]

Where can I purchase?

[@offthestone]

I bought these stones from danswhetstones.com. Great products 👍

[@tigonridge]

Those vertical chops and sliding the knife against the board really dull knives fast. But I guess for sharpeners, they'd want any excuse/opportunity to sharpen their knives! :D

[@offthestone]

No doubt! I like wood cutting boards, but that’s all I had for this video. I make way too many excuses to sharpen my knives over and over 🤣

[@oldlincolnpipewelder]

I love my Arkansas stones. They work great on my Wustof knives. I’m probably going to wind up sharpening them maybe once or twice a year compared to my Wife’s old knife set. Your right on the money when you say Arks are good for maintaining and touching up your semi dulled edge.

[@offthestone]

Yea, they yield pretty amazing results. Never sharpened Wustof knives with them yet, but hopefully in the future. Thanks for watching!

[@jeffhicks8428]

yes, the fact is that sharpening isn't just about grinding, abrasion, etc. it's about apex formation and burr removal which means you can have steels that are easy to grind yet difficult to sharpen and likewise steels which are difficult to grind yet easy to sharpen. there are many factors involved including the steel and how it's actually treated, as well as the abrasives and methods used. machineability in steel basically refers to this, mostly abrasion resistance, but also carbide quantity and type as well as the grain structure. Finer grained steels will grind more efficiently obviously for instance. Generally softer steel is easy to grind yet more difficult to sharpen. zdp189 is an example of steel that is difficult to grind yet very easy to sharpen.

[@peetsnort]

I have 3 .hard arkansas and a translucent and a black surgical Lately I am using a 400 diamond plate to make a slurry. Saves oil money

[@Master...deBater]

I've never had much luck getting good results from a black ark slurry. But I get great results from using Japanese Suita, Asagi Tomo and Mikowa Nagura slurry on my black arks...then finishing on the ark with just soapy water. An added benefit is that the Nagura clean any metal particles out of the pores of the stone and leave a beautiful polish. I also use Coticule and Thuringian rubbing stones the same way. If you have any of these stones you might want to give it a try.

[@jeremym-i6x]

Nice video - I use a Arkansas stone I got at a garage sale in 80's , shes still kickin , BUT one thing is on my D2 knives these stones wont work or you have to be a reallly good sharpener , as im watching this video im sharpening my d2 on Arkansas hard stone and nothing is happening 😆 been 15 mins already , at my skill level I need diamond stone to sharpen it . But for my AUS8 knives no problem it works fine. I imagine on something like magnacut or ZDP-189 it would take years to sharpen

[@greytooth898]

Bonus points if you actually buy the stone from Arkansas

[@chadr2604]

I never used them for knives. I use them as files to clean up the parting off blade. If I just grind it the grinding wheel leaves microscopic pits where metal can cold weld and gall up. I have used them on the flutes of endmills to remove metal that is starting to gall. They will cut it but are soft enough to not cut into WC or M2

[@pederhalverson2591]

Idk. My translucent and blue black look, sound, feel absolutely identical. I’ve even tested an edge going from translucent to black (best) to blue black (not as good) and back to black (again best). Something isn’t right 🤔🤔🤔

[@offthestone]

That is interesting. One thing to always consider is they are natural stones, so they will vary a bit. That being said, I am shocked they cut the same. My translucent removes way more metal than my black, and it feels more sticky when sharpening on it. Also, my blue black leaves an even finer edge than my black and translucent. Works really good for my straight razor.

[@pederhalverson2591]

@@offthestone Agreed, but there is basically no variance between the translucent and blue black. Side by side they look like the same stone. I’m thinking I might have been sent a translucent instead of a blue black

[@offthestone]

That is possible. There is a noticeable difference between my blue black and translucent. Have you checked out my blue black stone video?

[@pederhalverson2591]

@@offthestone yep

[@offthestone]

As you can see in the video the blue black does look slightly blue and the translucent is more white. What color is your blue black? Also, have you tried passing light through them both? If your blue black passes light easily, it’s probably a translucent. Your blue black should barely pass light

[@ared18t]

My grandmother bought a cheap Tfal santoku that just happened to have a good heat treat for 5 bucks LOL. That knife is stupid sharp and the easiest Chefs knife to sharpen other than my personal chefs knife.

[@offthestone]

That’s awesome! I love when they get the heat treat right. So much easier to sharpen. Yea, this knife is very easy to sharpen and takes such a sharp edge!

[@Miroku-Tono]

Arks are the best finishing stones. Norton, India or diamond are a must for bevel setting.

[@jeffhicks8428]

try slicing the paper towel without holding it under tension like you did. let it hang freely. that's my baseline for a keen edge on a kitchen knife. you really need to be properly apexed in order to do this. if you want to make it even harder, wet the towel then try it. and only use the softer consumer grade paper towels which are soft and cloth like and dont have any directional grains. when i first started and didnt know what I was doing I thought shaving was the baseline, that was the goal. Now I'd consider that quite dull.

[@bishopsblades-anoutdoorfam5991]

Great video. Arkansas stones are still my favorite finish stones. I have a few washita through black sets. I usually finish all my “working” knives on hard or true hard stones. For me it’s the balance of aggression and polish. PS: that is a beautiful Washita!

[@offthestone]

They are wonderful finishers. Still some of my favorites unless I have to reprofile a very dull edge. Thanks! I love the colors of that Washita. Definitely a beauty, but I wish I had a larger version of it haha. Thanks for the comment!

[@Master...deBater]

@@offthestone You should try to find yourself a vintage Washita from ebay...I hear they're a totally different animal than those new ones. I have a vintage Lilly White and a Rosy Red that I much prefer to my soft Arks. In all honesty I've never tried those new Washitas but I've heard there not as good as the vintage ones. And clearly they're an altogether different stone. The blue/black Arks are slightly translucent...exactly as Rooster says. I refer to them as "Trans Black Arks"...and yeah they're my favorite as well.

[@chadr2604]

The harder stones will very slowly cut D2

[@offthestone]

I generally only use the hard Arks for finishing a knife when I’ve already established a very sharp edge. And for straight razors. Shockingly, the soft arks do work well for some high carbon stainless steel if it isn’t too dull. I’ve gotten some great edges, like the one I showed in this video.

[@chadr2604]

@@offthestone i don't use them on knives I use them on endmills, parting off blades, punches, and dies. They actually work way better than the synthetic abrasives for metal working.

[@chadr2604]

@@offthestone the SiC rocks just take chunks out. Quartz is slightly softer than the tool

[@offthestone]

That’s awesome. I haven’t messed with sharpening any of that stuff. I should venture out eventually

[@chadr2604]

They don't work worth a crap on aluminum even 2000 or 7000 series. They work ok on titanium but you have to be careful because it cuts easy. They work good for taking burrs off haynes 188 and Waspalloy

[@jeffhicks8428]

I imagine that plastic cutting board will dull that thing very quickly. many high edge retention steels were create specifically for the plastics industry because plastic is such an abrasive material. And that white color, usually what they use to make plastic look like that is titanium dioxide. Quite abrasive stuff on its own. plastic cutting boards are the bane of keen edges. Id avoid anything other than the Japanese soft rubber boards or wood... basically any wood, even some of the least suitable ones they use are better than most other things. end grain vs edge makes zero measurable difference, that's another myth. different kinds of woods for sure do make a difference. For instance some common examples in the US, maple will have a nice forgiving feel under the edge and dulls the edge very slowly. but maple requires quite a bit of work to maintain and whatnot. Teak is will dull a bit more but still have a good feel but it requires almost no upkeep. Those cheaper boards made from acadia as they call it will feel quite hard and will dull by abrasion at about twice the rate of the maple. etc. I tried one of those American "sanituff" rubber boards. It was so bad that I now use it as dulling brick. absolute trash.

[@thewalnutwoodworker6136]

Washita stones are not the coarsest natural stones. That title goes the the Berea sandstone of Ohio. 90% of the grindstones in America came from Ohio. Sandstones in Ohio range from around 120 grit to around 1000-1500 grit.

[@offthestone]

I heard that from some others. Gotta get one of those sandstones!

[@alexolivarez732]

Everything here can be achieved with a set of Shapton stones. Why should I spend so much money on these stones, when hair whittling is hair whittling?

[@ColossalSwordFormAndTechnique]

Arkansas are not sharpening stones. They are edge mirror polishers 👏

[@offthestone]

I disagree. Soft Arks (soft and Washita) would be classified in the medium sharpening stone category. These stones remove metal pretty quickly from softer steels. I’ve used them countless times to sharpen dull kitchen knives and I’ve solely used my soft Ark to sharpen my bushcrafting knife when it’s dull. I’m not saying I’d use them on super steels, but they work well with a lot of high carbon stainless steels i’ve sharpened. A sharpening stone removes metal from knives, and that’s what Arks do. I would generally recommend people to use them as finishing stones because they do it well, but the soft Arks can maintain softer steels.

[@SliceyMcChop]

Thee WASH-IT-OFF coarse grit arkansas

[@DigitalVideoFromOz]

Washita = wah-SHE-tuh; not wah-shuh-TAH. It’s named after the mountains in Arkansas.

[@offthestone]

Not as if I’m overly concerned with pronunciation-though I try to be as proper as possible-Google how to pronounce “Washita” or “Ouachita” as in the mountains that Arkansas stones are mined and they both are pronounced Wash-i-tah. If people want to pronounce it as wah-she-tuh, I honestly don’t mind nor care honestly.

[@hillbillybassfisherman8181]

How long does it take you to put a razor edge on a knife? that cut a hair in half..yep cheap knife is so hard to get a razor edge i try them all just cause i love sharp knife cause i love to cook.I can use my pocket knife an cook wonderful cause it so sharp when someone wants to use it i say this may look like a cheap case knife but it cut you looking at it wrong way hahahahahahaha

[@offthestone]

It took me about a half hour, so it wasn’t too bad. But if you want to get an edge that fine, you’ll have to go through a series of a few different stones. Haha yea, gotta love when them knives get super sharp! I love to cook too, so it’s nice to have that fine of an edge! Thanks for watching!