Army Captain Invokes Manson Family Murders to Explain Homicides | Jeffrey MacDonald Case Analysis

This video answers the question: Can I analyze the case of Jeffrey MacDonald?
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[@DuckiesDad08]

Guy stabbed everyone else 30+ times, himself ONCE and thought “this’ll check out”.👌 Good job.

[@VampirusX]

Narcists don't think rationally. His kids and his wife had "injuries" so he needs to injure himself. Not the severity is important. It is important, that he got hurt as well. That's why narcissists always lose when committing a crime. They are often proud of their acts. Disgusting!

[@barquerojuancarlos7253]

Generally surgeons themselves have a sort of reputation of being irredeemably arrogant. It's not surprising to me at all that some dip into insanity.

[@mykelc205]

Wait..yall don't think he's innocent.

[@gigi9301]

@@barquerojuancarlos7253 True!! I have worked with (for) many, and Most have vastly different personalities down in the operating room than meet/greet up in the office and then the 15-minute post op appointments. Time them...how much time do they actually spend with you AFTER your surgery in your appointment? It's just a sales job first/before your surgery and they don't want to hear about it afterwards Unless you are 100% satisfied and have no complaints

[@DuckiesDad08]

@@mykelc205 there’s a 50% chance he’s 100% guilty, and a 100% chance the remaining 50% is made of 100% guilt.

[@sharondivis1120]

Back in the '80s I was a court reporter working in Los Angeles Superior Court in Van Nuys. We were in the middle of a medical malpractice case and when one of the doctors called as an expert was asked where he was currently working, he answered "St. Mary's Hospital in Long Beach. I work in the emergency room." I had just read about Jeffrey McDonald being employed in California at this very same hospital. When we took a break, as I was getting necessary spellings from the doctor in a private conversation, I asked him if he knew Jeffrey McDonald. He said, "Yes." I asked, "Do you think he did it?" This doctor looks me straight in the eye and says, "Without a doubt. In my opinion he is capable of anything. He is an unprincipled, megalomaniac and psychopath."

[@blackopal3138]

Everyone I know is an unprincipled megalomaniac.

[@irhonda31]

Interesting! (Replying to Sharon Divis.)

[@margeebechyne8642]

Wow! So he wasn't fooling other doctors, either.

[@dlbstl]

Wow! That is a chilling observation, and so telling!

[@A2D4]

That is very interesting, Sharon Divis . Kind of closes the book on this case for me. What an awful crime. I just can’t process a father killing his own small, innocent children. A wife being murdered is somewhat understandable for the usual reasons, (NOT EXCUSES!) but a man’s own children, flesh and blood, tells me he is a pure psychopath, always was, and that that truth finally emerged.

[@White-Michael935]

Jeffrey MacDonald laughing and making light of his families mvrder on Dick Cavett was the beginning of his incarcerated comeuppance. It turned Collette's father from friend to foe.

[@Army4life82]

Dick Cavett later Said in life that speaking with Jeffrey was one of the chilling interviews he had ever done Jeffrey gave him bad vibes

[@White-Michael935]

@@Army4life82 Interesting.. On another note, I think without the drug addled/drug snitch Helena Stoeckley, there would be less interest in the crime. She's a character that invokes the imagination with the floppy hat,, blond wig with white boots who spoke highly of drugs in a flat voice void of inflection as a candle burned. She claims to have rode the hobby horse while 3 of her Vietnam Veteran pals were wiping out most of a family---even had a cat named Satan.

[@AmusedChild]

That was one of the most disgusting interviews I ever saw in my life. MacDonald obviously basked in his nefarious fame.

[@wmurch3]

right? had he not done this interview he may still be free. narcissists gonna narcisist

[@katrinaolsen2444]

OMG, I was just thinking about that! I’ve seen it on KZbin. So sick

[@brianreilly5103]

A combat-trained Green Beret, a man trained at the height of the Vietnam war, a trained amateur boxer could not take out one of the" hippies" or even draw blood from anyone of them. His story is Absurd.

[@kafkettethehungerartist]

hear, hear! also, more from my side of the street, no•one, absolutely no•one, has 𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿 chanted '𝚊𝚌𝚒𝚍 𝚒𝚜 𝚐𝚛𝚘𝚘𝚟𝚢'. not once, not in the history of the world. he's straight, he's arrogant, he's stupid ~ & oh, he is guilty as sin.

[@shawnadeyo]

Hahaha I know right?!

[@creolelady182]

I will have to agree

[@robburrows2737]

I agree. And why didn't they finish him off when there was such overkill on the others.

[@karenpoteet751]

I always thought he did it and I still do. However, IF he had had a decent lawyer, they should have brought up how the crime scene was not secured and, therefore, none of the evidence could be trusted. I agree with Dr. Grande's theory of what happened. And, like he said, it was MacDonald's own personality that doomed him. He told too many lies, did not act like he cared, was his own worst enemy, thought he was smarter than everyone else. I don't think it was in his personality to care about anyone but himself. He basically did what he wanted to do and acted like he was single but pretended to be a family man. In the book, it stated that Colette had called her mother and asked to move back home and take the kids, but her mother asked if she could wait a while as they were putting in a pool (as I recall) and the kids would have more fun then (of course, she didn't realize the urgency). It's too bad she didn't get out when her instinct told her to. I think his personality is very much like Scott Peterson. Some men pretend to be "family men" but don't really want children or the responsibility.

[@angelatheriault8855]

Apparently, he thought he was hot stuff. The fact his wife was pregnant again may have added to the feeling his mounting responsibilities would soon be limiting his fun times. The sheer amount of overkill indicate rage. During interviews, he acted as though the deaths were inconsequential and his real concern was people had the nerve to consider him a suspect. There was something about him that made my skin crawl.

[@sharonchristian8508]

He did think he was hot, could have anybody. Terrifying

[@nadiacusan3799]

I remember when it happened, Chris Watts killing his family same story, Macdonald did it

[@garyacker7388]

When I originally read the book I was satisfied that he did it. But after a documentary about his case my wife thought that he was innocent. After hearing from a friend on utube who was in prison with him thanks that he is innocent.

[@superchitownhustler]

@@garyacker7388 He is so guilty it isn't funny. If you and your wife believe him, you're pretty gullible.

[@garyacker7388]

@@superchitownhustler your probably right, the guy can con anyone he thinks. I'm just registering my own indecisive thoughts over the years.

[@williamquigley5836]

The book that examined the man and the case, "Fatal Vision", was very meticulous and precise in revealing Dr. MacDonald as the obvious killer. What is astonishing is that he very nearly escaped justice and that anyone could be convinced of his innocence; The evidence against him was conclusive. Having read the book twice, I rate it as one of the best of it's type - almost suspenseful.

[@chrisstrawn4108]

Well said, I also read the book back in high school and boy, is it ever damning. I found it chilling, even terrifying. The idea a father could murder his entire family as he did is a very dark place that is hard to visit.

[@janicewrench8425]

One thing Dr. Grande didn’t mention, but that I found compelling, was that there was a suitcase on the master bedroom floor that had no blood spatter on it, though the room was covered in blood. The theory mentioned in the book was that he had perhaps planned to run away but then concocted the plan to murder his family and blame it on intruders. I’ve always believed he was guilty. The suitcase, along with the blood evidence, sealed it for me.

[@janetebonanno]

Loved that book

[@skinovtheperineum1208]

Then you're REALLY going to love 'A Wilderness Of Error'!

[@kandygibson6778]

My father and his partner were the first MP's inside the house. They were told that they were being dispatched to a domestic disturbance. When they arrived one MP was at the front door but it was locked. He told my father and his partner to go to the back door. The back door was unlocked. They walked in the back door and Jeffrey was lying over his wife, he raised up and said my children. My father's partner stayed with Jeffrey and Collett. My father walked to the back and found both of the girls. They had been tucked into their beds. My father did not realize that they were dead and began talking to the oldest child, the girl just stared at him. (The lights were off in the bedroom. Light was on in the hall.) My father thought she was just scared. He continued talking to her to ease her nerves and sat on the end of the bed. When he sat down the covers moved and exposed her neck. The little girl had wounds to her neck. My father said it looked as if her neck had been cut. He then realized she was dead. He moved to the next room and the youngest was also deceased. He never forgot those little girls. When he got out of the army he never returned to police work. My Dad is convinced of his guilt. Collette and her girls were massacred. Jeffery had a stab wound to his chest. My father guarded him off and on for 6 weeks after the murders. He showed no emotion. The only emotion my father ever saw him display was when his breakfast was served cold. Apparently, he did not like cold eggs. My father said he was arrogant and cold. Never spoke about his wife or his girls. The only emotion he ever saw was over eggs. Sad.

[@kandygibson6778]

I replied before I watched your video. My father entered through the kitchen back door. I thought Collette and Jeffery were on the kitchen floor. However, I could be mistaken. My father has passed away so I cannot ask him.

[@kathrynj.hernandez8425]

WHAT A TESTIMONY!

[@jeffro221]

@@kandygibson6778 They were both laying in the master bedroom.

[@skinovtheperineum1208]

I am the eggman. They are the eggmen. I am the Walrus.

[@johnbaugh2437]

I studied this case some years ago. It piqued my interest being an ER doctor myself and my interest in true crime novels. He is guilty as sin. The fact that people still believe he is innocent demonstrates the ability of sociopaths to charm.

[@danparish1344]

People project their own empathy onto others they identify with. Outwardly, he’s a successful family man and model citizen. Crimes like this are hard to make sense of because it’s not fathomable for normal people to brutally murder their family, so how could this doctor? I think learning about narcissistic and psychopathic traits should be mandatory learning in schools, it would save people from so much trouble in their life. We’d certainly elect better politicians as well.

[@Army4life82]

Guilty as the day is long

[@creolelady182]

will have to agree. All you have to do is look at his lifestyle after the deaths. I believe the trigger for him to murder and go on a rampage was the wetting of the bed

[@janecoe9407]

He was a very cute man when he very first got married. ive seen him in interviews he wantsa people to think he is innocent. who knpws but god

[@blackopal3138]

I just left a comment detailing why I believe the opposite. I'd like to hear your counter if you feel like it. peace

[@emilyevans6989]

My father, a senior ranking officer, said that investigators really dropped the ball concerning the crime scene. He never had a doubt that MacDonald was guilty, and the brutality visited on MacDonald’s family was something he carried with him always. The word he used was “monster.”

[@lala-gj4oo]

monster is exactly right.

[@LoudounDemocrat]

I went to the same high school as MacDonald so have followed this case literally for 50 years. He is guilty as sin.

[@31Alden]

Yes he is.

[@leslieleslie6590]

What was he like in high school?

[@sharonchristian8508]

I was Nursing student working at St Mary's in 1982. I knew Dr Macdonald from an ER rotation. I encountered him in the basement one day. He stopped me and told me I looked so much like Colette that he thought I was a ghost. I was 5 months pregnant, wearing a blue maternity top. I was terrified and thought he was going to kill me. I ran. He called out," I wasn't going to hurt you". I haven't forgotten the feeling.

[@lisanelke9726]

Eww that's so creepy and scary especially him saying he wasn't going to hurt you and you're in the basement alone with him 😱

[@kirsten2769]

Wow, that's probably the closest he ever got to an admission of guilt. "You look like Colette - but I'm not going to hurt you."

[@paleriedove3333]

Girl if I was ☝I'd still be running 🏃 that is the scariest thing I've ever heard and the encounter happened in a basement!!!😰😰😰😰😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😳☹

[@rt66vintage16]

Sharon, your comment is interesting bc in all the literature (Fatal Vision), we've only heard how much support JM was given by St. Mary's Hospital. P.S. I'm originally from Long Beach but left in '92.

[@belindaneiman9716]

Wow that's creepy. He is crazy

[@lostsidewalk]

One of the things that Dr grande missed out on in his background is during high School during his sophomore or junior year he had to go live with relatives in Texas for 4 months and finish out a school year because he beat the living snot out of his older brother, this was in the book "fatal vision" I think it illustrates a "rage tendency"

[@vymim]

What keeps getting left out in these recent analysis of the Jess McDonald case is that Colette McDonald had hair strands in her hand believed to be from her attack. Recent test have shown that the DNA match Dr. Jeff McDonald.

[@sultansethadam]

Yes! I saw that in an Errol Morris doc about the case.

[@karenpoteet751]

But that could be easily explained...she could have run her hands through her husband's hair. But....I have always thought he killed them and still do. His story never made any sense, however, the crime scene was really contaminated so any evidence should have been thrown out (if he had a good lawyer).

[@tessneijzen99]

And there is no DNA presence of Stoeckler found or of the other suggested intruders. No fingerprints. No physical evidence what so ever that they were there. With a massacre like that, that’s impossible.

[@kathrynj.hernandez8425]

That hair sample was tested! It was her own hair.

[@mattbergseid9196]

No one, no one, ever said "acid is groovy, kill the pigs".... but a murderer making up a ridiculous alibi,

[@A2D4]

Yes, that’s almost laughable, if it wasn’t so serious a situation, which this whole episode was/is.

[@lisanelke9726]

A lot of people said groovy when I was growing up in the late 60s and 70s including myself and my friends ☮️✌️🏵️

[@takemyjobpleeez]

Not even Stoeckley remembered clearly saying that. Her 1982 interview with Ted Gunderson, and Prince Beasley is here on KZbin.

[@TheDude-gd6eg]

😂😂😂😔

[@SanamJanamian]

“Ultimately the same characteristics that facilitated his crime, facilitated his conviction.” Great sentence! I love your writing style doctor Grande.

[@bthomson]

Yes! This is key!🔑🗝

[@BucketHeadianHagg]

Me too! I was cracking up on the Shetland Pony joke too! I feel like writing a book that has all of Dr Grandes one-liners! Sometimes he makes me burst out into laughter so hard, that my cat launches off the bed and goes skidding around the corners with a look of pure terror on his face! 🤪😂

[@BucketHeadianHagg]

@@bthomson oh I’m so glad you found that key.. it opens the lock to my heart! (But, you already own that!) Good to see you, my friend! Hey, check out “The Disturbing Truth” true crime channel. I’m thinking you’ll love it! I’m sending you a nice freshly showered, air conditioned, happy, love-hug your way today! Hope all is well ❤️😇

[@bthomson]

BH - Have missed your great comments! You make all us peanut gallery types feel special! Thanks for that!💐

[@bthomson]

🐈🐱🐈

[@amycaitlyn1120]

I read the book Fatal Vision decades ago, but this horrific murder has never escaped my consciousness. The more I learn about people's personal experiences with MacDonald, the more I weep for his poor daughters and wife. The blood evidence alone depicts exactly what happened that night.

[@tracyhaverstick5672]

This brings back old memories. Collette's father fought so long and so hard for his daughter and grand daughters. Carl Malden played her father in the movie "Fatal Vision". His story was outrageous.

[@iwantthe80sback59]

*Fatal Vision not Double Vision :).

[@johnfox9169]

A wonderful analysis. Spot on! Very happy you mentioned his Eskatrol usage. He also had been terribly sleep-deprived going into the early morning of February 17, 1970. He went into a rage with his wife, and it went REAL bad for his family, and then, for him. He was personality-disordered, but very bright and would have made contributions to medicine. Perhaps one of THE saddest cases I ever heard. He had NO plans of killing anyone February 16. Several hours into February 17, he became a mass murderer.

[@morganminpin]

As I recall he also had at least one alcoholic drink that night, on top of the amphetamine.

[@craigd2815]

Jeffrey was an infamous alumnus of Patchogue Medford High School. He was the subject of much speculation in town. Several of his friends and relatives mentioned that he was an amphetamine abuser due to his incredible work load as a physician and member of Special Forces. I believe that being strung out on pep pills and sleep deprived exacerbated his reaction to a fight over infidelity. However, other factors point to premeditation. Happily for Patchogue we also produced Medal of Honor winner Navy Seal Michael Murphy years later.

[@chrisstrawn4108]

Murph was a great person by all accounts. Have you read about how Luttrell dropped his rifle and hid? Here in Texas Luttrell's brother has managed to ride the famous name all the way to Congress.

[@BlueBelle-711]

This case has always fascinated me. "Fatal Vision" is one of my favorite Gary Cole movies. Thank you, Dr Grande for your analysis 👏 🙌 ♥️

[@andymullarx6365]

It was a great performance and it was a cut above most TV movies back then.

[@BlueBelle-711]

@@andymullarx6365, yes! I agree!

[@takemyjobpleeez]

I watched it back then as a kid.. Gave me nightmares. I just now revisited it. The whole movie including commercials, is here on KZbin. What a time capsule!

[@kimberlygilliam6112]

His sister was my High School English teacher. She never talked about the case with us, but my dad told me she was very supportive of her brother and worked for decades to try to exonerate him.

[@oozingplazma]

Because he was supposedly framed. Around the time of the vietnam war, soldiers were transporting heroin/drugs in the bodies of dead soldiers (another one of the many corrupt actions alledgedly done thanks to the unconstitutional power of CIA/FBI). A police informant claimed to have known about this, she was a drug user named Helena Stoeckley. She confessed to many people, but was immediately threatened by prosecutors, and later recanted.. which she admitted to lying and recanting out of "fear of being charged for murder".. jeffrey identified her and the 3 others assailaints. There are many pieces of evidence that went missing.. evidence that was never added to the case.. a lot about this case was fishy ans kept hush hush. At surface level, he is guilty. If you look deeper into the investigation, you definately sense a cover up that goes into something far deeper and darker than just a "psycho narcissistic green beret guy".... Helena openly stated she was going to "blow the hole lid off of this corrupt case".. but you know what allegedly happens to whistleblowers.

[@tdali8347]

Favorite murder mystery + greatest tropical shirt = home run, Dr. Grande! You mentioned a lack of motive, but didn't mention that Colette was pregnant with their 1st son. I started following this case when I was in the Army. In those days it was unthinkable that men killed their pregnant wives/girlfriends. Now we know...

[@cstarv]

I grew up there and remember the killing. I think people were unwilling to believe one man would kill not only his wife but his children. This murder would be a one day headline if it happened today. We have seen more than once the tragedy of family murders. But I think now most people believe he is guilty. The house was demolished several years ago and with 9/11, the base was completely fenced off. So there is nothing for anyone to see.

[@w3tua]

There was nothing to see there back in the late nineties when I and my wife lived on Castle Drive a few doors down. The housing unit was nondescript and had been renovated and in use since 1981.

[@jimc6687]

This happened in Colorado as well and I wonder if Chris Watts knew of this sick case beforehand??

[@jakemitchell5015]

@@w3tua we were at 323 castle dr in 06-07

[@Anca820]

@@w3tua Corregidor not there anymore nor a few old base housing areas.

[@SubRosa33]

He had episodes of vicious temper outbursts so there goes the statement he had no violent tendencies

[@leasaswartz6879]

I remember this story. I also remember the Dick Cavett interview and the fear of drug using hippies. Interesting times. My gut told me he did it.

[@jandavis1523]

I read a book about him-it was written by someone he had hired to write a book to help him prove his innocence. The author ended up believing he was the perpetrator. Your analysis was spot on, Dr Grande. He is a chilling narcissist.

[@amandanegrete1306]

Joel McGinnis.

[@IntriguedLioness]

I read that same book when I was very young. The version I read had black and white photographs in the center .. the murder scenes and everything but the most chilling photograph to me was near the end where he was smiling because he got away with it and he was on his sailboat in SoCal as I recall... thankfully the evidence caught up with him and he was prosecuted and incarcerated. I'm not big on crime novels and it was one of the few I've read but to read it at such an early age was horrific. Definitely taught me that the scariest monsters can be human. Zombies I could deal with, narcissistic sociopath... Not so much.

[@iwantthe80sback59]

@@amandanegrete1306 *Joe, not Joel. :)

[@judy9123]

Fatal Vision - best crime book ever.

[@jmsneorrcom]

My father was a career soldier stationed at Fort Bragg when this happened. I was three years old and was burned by a hot lawnmower engine. Jeffery MacDonald was my attending physician just days before the murders

[@bethdefrancesco3200]

That's wild!

[@margaretweeks880]

Oh wow!

[@alliecat4176]

Wow! Do you remember him at all?

[@snow999]

😬that’s a little creepy. Do you remember that? I can’t remember anything that young.

[@aurelielagrange2173]

I’ve read allegations Dr MacDonald was a speed freak, on his own meds. Yes, also a serial philanderer & his marriage was breaking up. His rage that night was a consequence of being hyped on speed, the use of which is not that out of bounds for doctors & other med staff with easy access to those meds.

[@opaulamorgan4265]

Dr. Grande, good analysis of what could have happened that night. If only Collete could have gotten away sooner! Could you look into the Alice Crimmins case, who killed missy and Eddie?

[@kimmyfreak200]

also colette told a friend jeffrey kicked her out of their marital bed and shared it with kimberly... and then she was bed wetting... some think colette discovered he was molesting her... an excellent point to consider

[@lesliebolick2407]

I read Fatal Vision as well. As far as crime scene analysis goes, the blood evidence was damning. Blood transfer is identifiable & traceable, so I disagree with Dr. Grande's dismissal of that evidence under the umbrella of "possibility". There was so much blood evidence that you simply cannot dismiss all of it. The puncture wounds through the pajama top were proven through folding the pajama top to the position it was in at the time. The blood & puncture holes matched.

[@lynnkowalla1315]

Yeah, mishandled crime scene is not "exculpatory". At best nullified. But as I recall there was incriminating evidence.

[@creolelady182]

He is almost 80 years old and his ass will rot in prison. he will never admit what he did

[@shadetreemech290]

They never do.

[@dprcontracting6299]

Why would he?

[@creolelady182]

@@dprcontracting6299 Because he is a sociopath and a narcissist

[@christieculp4936]

So glad to see you have reviewed this story Dr. Grande! In nearly all of Dr. MacDonald's appeals that I have read about, not once is there mention of getting justice against all of the people who he posits did these murders - and no anger at the hat wearing Helena Stokely who supposedly chanted and did nothing to stop the tragedy she alleges to have witnessed.

[@Wendy-Williams-NC]

I grew up near Ft Bragg and this case was very well known. My retired USAF grandpa took me by the house one day when he was seeing a doctor on base. It was extremely eerie being I had always heard about this murder!

[@stt5v2002]

I just returned from a vacation to Hawaii, but for some reason I feel like I’m still there.

[@garyacker7388]

I have to mention that I have followed the book since it came out. In the book it was said that he had been taking a large amount of amphetamines for an extended time. That will make you very aggressive and pschycotic!

[@renatelewis538]

I remember this Case very well. Mr. McDonald came over as a cold arrogant person. Got chills when I saw him on TV. I think she wanted to leave him because of his Affairs so in is sociopathic ways nobody's gonna leave him and he went into a rage. I agree with you that his Daughter woke up and saw what was going on so he had to kill them too.

[@MeganVictoriaKearns]

In this case there are some similarities with the Chris Watts murders. 2 little daughters + a wife pregnant with a boy were murdered by their father / husband's bare hands.. The central conflict in both cases was infidelity on the part of the killer. Both families are from North Carolina. Both murders were poorly planned and both killers got in front of tv cameras and did a terrible job of acting like they gave a shit. They both just acted really awkward and insincere. It was a talk show interview of Jeffrey McDonald that prompted the wife's stepfather to aggressively pursue proving McDonald was guilty watching him taken to jail. There are theories about the Watts case that Chris Watts may have only wanted to kill his wife, Shan'ann, but one of his daughters walked in on him killing her or walked in just after he had killed her. So Chris killed her and her sister as well as their mother so he didn't leave behind a witness. The cases are completely opposite in some ways though. Chris confessed within 72 hours and took a plea deal so there was never a trial. MacDonald killed his family 52 years ago and he still has not confessed. Not once. Even given the chance of parole and relative freedom from his cold, dank prison cell if he would take responsibility and demonstrate remorse, he still won't own up to it. His image is so important to him that he's willing to wither away in prison rather than say he did it. Talk about riding a lie until the wheels come off... smh.

[@tracymorgan5386]

Even more than that if collette left him and it came out he was cheating, in the military that gets you dishonorably discharged which could have ruined his medical career. McDonald would have practically lost everything he would have been shunned, no more people admiring him, no more women willing to sleep with him etc. Poor collette the advice I give women in her situation and I say this from personal experience keep your feelings to yourself don’t give advance warning to the husband just plan quietly to leave and than once you are safely out of his reach then take action against him, however I want to be very clear McDonald is a evil man and in no way did his wife and children deserve what he did to them.

[@josephinecarascon6188]

@@tracymorgan5386 ll

[@craykanne]

The blood evidence in this case is incontrovertible and provided a perfect map of this heinous crime. The crime scene photos are horrendous and show the brutality of his drug- fueled rage. Guilty as sin doesn't even cover it.

[@rickakashockshockey9151]

Did you mean the crime scene that everybody and his brother tramped through because they failed to secure it? Macdonald wasn't a user but the hippy-kids who did this certainly were.

[@kbthor8]

I’m very familiar with this case and have kept up with it for decades. MacDonald absolutely killed his family. Yes the crime scene was disturbed, doesn’t change the blood evidence and lack of evidence of any intruders on that very rainy night.

[@rickakashockshockey9151]

@@kbthor8 I mean no disrespect to anyone's opinion regarding this, it's just that "The Innocence Project" really knocked me for a loop back in the day and changed my views even up the the level of capital punishment. With Macdonald I just gave him the benefit of the doubt, especially after reading about the Stoeckley woman's outbursts about having been at the scene with her friends. Maybe Macdonald got too much credit from me? Very possible. I do not know for sure here.

[@luminol]

@@rickakashockshockey9151 doesn’t matter who walked through it they all had different blood types. Duh. He was found guilty because he is.

[@nicky3239]

Read a Wilderness of Error by documentarian Errol Morris

[@AABB-bm9kk]

“…She was chanting “Acid is groovy, Kill the pigs”…”… I guess I don’t know that one. Is that Jefferson Airplane ? 🤔😄✌️

[@susanohnhaus611]

yes, definitely pre-starship days

[@AABB-bm9kk]

@@susanohnhaus611 What about “Nothing’s Gonna Stop us killing Pigs Now “ ? 🧐😄✌️

[@menzere2009]

That’s what every cop who never met a hippy outside of arresting them thinks hippies say. It was the dead giveaway he’s guilty.

[@melbournestreetdrummermsd3202]

@@AABB-bm9kk Or renaming their hit song from 'White Rabbit' to ' White Piggy'.

[@AABB-bm9kk]

@@melbournestreetdrummermsd3202 😆✌️

[@ea8269]

Why was he the only one who survived this ambush and heinous crime? Those little girls were killed brutally with ice pick.

[@205ken4]

Yep, Out of all evidence against him (and there’s a lot) the attackers being more concerned with the wife & little girls than him is just too ridiculous for me to get passed. It simply makes 0 sense to not focus on the person capable of putting up the most resistance

[@bauhnguefyische667]

He got muscle cramps in his arms from all that stabbing. Saved his own life in that attack. That’s almost heroic, how he kept himself from being fatally injured stabbing 3 other family members to death.

[@JordanBarronWolfe]

I definitely think MacDonald did it. But I don’t find it significant that he was the only survivor. If the evil hippies were real, they could have easily mistaken an unconscious man stabbed in the abdomen for dead, and left him alive unintentionally.

[@luminol]

@@JordanBarronWolfe the others were stabbed DOZENS of x’s. Collettes arms were broken. He had superficial wounds.

[@bauhnguefyische667]

@@JordanBarronWolfe That’s what made the whole thing suspect. He did not have one life threatening injury, mostly superficial, nothing that could have killed him. As a surgeon he knew exactly what he was doing to his wife and daughters as well as his minor self inflicted wounds.

[@nightwood4379]

“It’s not like Shetland Ponies are the harbinger of death.” I agree Dr. G. Also, thank you for an insightful analysis plus a thoughtful theory.

[@watchingitallhere]

Disagree. Horses are expensive and their upkeep even more costly. Purchasing any horse is for most people, a clear sign of mental instability.

[@stevekittridge1144]

😅

[@a.evelyn5498]

@watchingitallhere That is absurd & unsound reasoning. How does this immense expense signify mental instability? Equestrian is a sport of the bourgeoisie for a reason. This does not conclusively demonstrate nor even merely imply that the individual(s) are mentally unstable…. Instead, it signifies great wealth & financial security on the side of the buyer. It’s not an irrational or odd purchase either. Horses are intelligent majestic creatures, & equestrian is a challenging yet rewarding & really quite elegant & magnificent sport that takes much training, fortitude, & talent. I would agree, however, that there are very many entitled individuals who own horses & participate in equestrian &/or horse-racing, especially as it acts as a means of flaunting their wealth, a symbol of prestige ultimately. & We all know that people like that can be real a**holes, am I right or am I right?

[@juanitarichards1074]

@@a.evelyn5498 Not entirely. My mother saved up and bought a horse for my sisters to learn to ride and she leased a paddock for him near our house. They all cared for him and cleaned out his paddock and stable. Later my parents bought a farm and they bought 3 ponies for my 3 sisters and they learned and trained their ponies and entered them in jumping and dressage competitions and they won lots of ribbons. Our family wasn't wealthy but were hard workers and savers. They weren't elite or anything like that. They lived in a modest house and raised sheep and crops and involved themselves in all the country activities in a rural area where all the farmers were down to earth plain speaking hard workers.

[@LDiamondz]

@@juanitarichards1074 Sounds like you had a great childhood. Also, you made a great point that owning a horse isn't just for the elites. (Besides, it was a SHETLAND PONY! Not a bougy thoroughbred! I laughed at that one!) 🤣

[@Dana-712FifthAve]

I always wanted Dr Grande to talk about this case! Thank you, Dr Grande!

[@monicabennett6620]

I know this complicated very well as I used to teach in my Introduction to Forensic Science class. You did a great job of summarizing the case. There is no doubt in my mind that MacDonald was guilty, guilty, guilty.

[@micheleshively8557]

1st murder book I read. Got me hooked and wanting to understand these creepos. Thanks Dr Grande ❤️

[@AllisonVandenberg97]

Dr G those shirts! I want to run away to a tropical island watching you!

[@garyacker7388]

I've always been interested in this case. Thanks Dr.

[@stacykeller8461]

Can’t wait to hear your analysis!!! All I can think of is Gary Cole playing him in a Lifetime movie!

[@maryann9226]

I saw the movie. Gary did a great job.

[@LoudounDemocrat]

Gary Cole played MacDonald and.....Mike Brady. You can't make this tuff up.

[@anneb889]

@@LoudounDemocrat I was thinking that too…Mike Brady was such a patient kind dad, and this man was a manipulative monster. Great actor.

[@EmGee410]

Is it me or are there an unusually large amount of murders that occur when one spouse, usually they’re surviving one, is sleeping on the couch for some random reason?

[@Mckinley-mick]

It’s such a perfect coincidence that they so happen to be the only one away from all the other victims, and usually the least harmed if at all 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@matiaanjansenvanrensburg771]

so sleeping on the couch is harbinger of death?

[@andymullarx6365]

Yes as soon as a leading suspect tells of a change to the ordinary sleeping arrangements unique to that night it would make me suspicious.

[@briarrose29]

I sleep on the couch because my husband snores. Logic says I’d be the first one attacked and killed, so when they aren’t, it’s extremely sus

[@Gemini-oi5fb]

Yes, it reminds me so much of the Cheshire CT home invasion where the mom and two daughters were murdered but the physician husband left alive.

[@31Alden]

Would you consider doing the unsolved Valerie Percy murder that took place in Kenilworth, IL on September 18, 1966. Valerie’s father, Charles Percy, served as a U.S. Senator from 1967-1985. Valerie’s identical twin sister is Sharon Percy Rockefeller. Thank you for your consideration.

[@alliecat4176]

Yes, that sounds like something I'd love to hear about!

[@heidithaw1072]

I have read they had a suspect who has since died. I remember that case when I was a kid.

[@31Alden]

@@heidithaw1072 A very intriguing case. I wonder if law enforcement is still pursing leads or if this has been relegated to the Cold Case files.

[@lindaolsen7089]

@@heidithaw1072 Same here. That was big deal news in the Chicago area when I was growing up. One thing it shows you is that wealth, privilege and money cannot protect you from violence.

[@catspajamas2961]

The blood evidence made a coherent version of events that was thoroughly detailed in Fatal Vision. It's hard to imagine that if people had moved evidence around that a coherent story could still be made out of it.

[@Army4life82]

On a documentary I saw about this case is that Jeffrey snapped over one of the girl's bedwetting. Jeffrey could have easily seen the girl in the white hat before he committed this horrific murders. Plus Jeffrey own words came back to bite him in the butt. Going on different TV shows & lying to CS parents

[@angiefromakron]

You read my mind!! The Supreme Court has ruled on this case but I need a Grande analsis of it.

[@nadiazahroon6573]

The ice pick used to murder Colette was on top of the fridge, no one knew where it was except him and the other guest who said that during the trial it was used during a thanksgiving party and placed there to keep it away from the kids. Guilty.

[@johnfahey7587]

That's a great shirt. I once was to shy to wear shirts like that but you only live life once so...live it up and wear all the tropical shirts you want!

[@dprcontracting6299]

When you said about him complaining about the way the army had treated him then went on TV about it, the phrase 'overplaying his hand' came to mind. I would have thought the best strategy would have been to quietly fade away into the background, keep up the faux grief and behave oneself accordingly rather than bringing attention to himself.

[@MDWD]

This is horrible! His own daughters. I can't comprehend that kind of sickness. Txs for an interesting story

[@bluecoffee8414]

In law school, I did a course-long study of this case using so-called "Wigmorian evidential analysis." This is a fabulous technique which forces you to slow down and analyze each piece of evidence in excrutiating detail. The human tendency is to lump things together to form conclusions. Eg "his fingerprints were at the scene thus he must be guilty" without properly evaluating other reasons why his fingerprints might be at the scene. My conclusion was that McDonald is guilty, yet I think that under the law he should have been let go. The crime scene and police work was just too tainted.

[@lindapiper9171]

Finally Jeffrey McDonald, thanks Mr. Grande I knew you would come through.

[@Blissfulnessence]

Loving the new shirts Dr. Grande! As usual, good take on this horrific event.

[@Zaddy-Lu]

The hairs that didn't belong to any known suspect/family member were probably from women he brought home

[@billofrightsamend4]

So many people move in and out of the quarters. If they have the hair still and a list of people that lived there. But, people in the military only lived in one place for two years in those days. Can you imagine how many different hairs and fibers. How many people in the military then ,100's of thousands maybe ?Only his blood and his family's blood was found. So, he is guilty. Every time someone moves in they repaint also. So, it is their blood... he's guilty.

[@lorenfulghum2393]

Dr Grande can make anything sound preposterous solely through tone of voice.

[@A.Krispy]

You know what they say about suspicious stuff: “If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and it looks like a duck it probably is a duck” Case closed.

[@MatterInMyMind]

I can't tell if Todd I'd ready to party and go on a cruise or Dr Grande is going to hit us with an awesome analysis with his witty comedy jab... That shirt screams both haha. So use to his long sleeve neutral colours, it sort of throws me off 🌺

[@suef1379]

I've read/watched a lot on this case. I've never heard about Collette breaking up with him when they were in high school. I wonder what her reasons were and if his controlling and cheating ways had come to light. Thanks, Dr. Grande.

[@HJG-1019]

_"Its not like Shetland Ponies are the Harbingers of Death._ I thought l was safe with my husband - but then he bought me a Shetland Pony....Now l know I'm doomed!"

[@LizbetPCB]

I read McGinness’s book, Fatal Vision, in hardcover ages ago. It began my years long, to-this-day interest in ‘True Crime’. He’s guilty all right, but I don’t believe it was proven under the law.

[@BucketHeadianHagg]

Man, people just don't read books anymore. Im excited to see your comment, cuz now I'm gonna go to the library tomorrow and see if I can find the one you mentioned! (I bought Dr Grandes serial killer book on my birthday last year, and about to order "Harm Reduction" for my birthday this year! I love reading, and Dr Grande is such a good writer!)

[@anneb889]

I remember the TV movie (actually I think it was a miniseries) when I was a kid. So disturbing. I remember all the various blood types.

[@dianevanderlinden3480]

same here. Love that book.

[@dianevanderlinden3480]

@@BucketHeadianHagg definitely worth it. Also see if you can get "Our Guys" by Bernie Lefkowitz, if you haven't already. "All She Wanted" by Aphrodite Jones is good too. And "Mother's Day" is horrifying. Can't remember who wrote that one.

[@BucketHeadianHagg]

@@dianevanderlinden3480 (Dennis McDougal! About the woman who murdered her two daughters with the help of her own sons!! I'm gonna get that one for sure!) Also, I love Aphrodite Jones! It never occurred to me to read her books.. Thank you! Thank you! For everything!

[@spiritualtruthseeker1947]

“Attack hippies” 🤣😆😂 Dr Grande never fails to say something in his almost ASMR style delivery that almost causes me to fall over laughing.

[@rockjagg1]

From the books I’ve read and evidence I’ve seen, I’ll disagree slightly with the doctor here and say he was also guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

[@shadetreemech290]

Yeah, I read a book on it too. And agree with you on this.

[@malchir4036]

Don't call him doctor. He has a Phd in philosophy, not psychology.

[@danielschwegler5220]

@@malchir4036 what a crime

[@Richard.Hybels]

@@malchir4036 That doesn’t mean he can’t be called Dr. If you had a professor in college with a PhD in Philosophy would you not address her as Dr?

[@malchir4036]

@@Richard.Hybels I actually also have a phd in philosophy and a minor in bio-psychology, but you're missing the point here. I would *never* announce myself as a doctor while speaking about a field I'm not an expert in. It's extremely frowned upon in academia. I also never announced myself as "doctor in training" while teaching classes as assistant-professor.

[@zenawarrior7442]

The DNA & hair could have come from anyone, anytime. This intruder crap is such a weak defense, what he did was so brutal. Great shirt again👕 Thanks Dr G😊💙💙

[@janecoe9407]

THOSE HAWAIIN SHIRTS ARE UGLY LOL./

[@ileneyadegari8055]

Thank You I have always been fascinated with this one. I could never come up with a conclusion. Your analogy makes perfect sense,you should have worked for law enforcement as an analysis.

[@phyllisdevries5734]

I know everyone experiences grief differently, but I can't imagine the grief I would feel.

[@leslieleslie6590]

Thank you so much for covering this case, Doc. This case has fascinated me since Joe McGinnis's book "Fatal Vision" came out.

[@lonemaus562]

I mean who would actually believe him ? They killed his family but not him ? They stabbed everyone multiple times but him only once ?

[@janecoe9407]

MAKES LITTLE SENSE.

[@Mckinley-mick]

And yet the message in blood was supposedly towards him? Wouldn’t he be the MAIN target?

[@wilhelmhagberg4897]

Why do you expect perfect logic from 4 supposedly deranged, LSD tripping hippies?

[@A2D4]

Right on! I Good point......I forgot how the military was considered “pigs” by a certain percentage of the population. I remember when they called the Vietnam vets “baby killers” ....In this case of a Green Beret, it was tragically true.

[@ernstraedecker6174]

I taped the famous film "Fatal Vision" on VHS many years ago, and put it on CD+R last year. That makes me one of the lucky few having access to that fantastic docudrama based on this case.

[@SY-ok2dq]

It's up on KZbin.

[@iwantthe80sback59]

Yeah, been free on YT since 2017.

[@kathrynj.hernandez8425]

Just watched it free on YT last week. Have the book. More than 20 years old.

[@bender7565]

If you as nerdy as me about Jeff and his murderous ways, the art 32 hearing and the Colonels interrogation is word for word with the transcripts, VERY factual move and book.

[@jlkitz1775]

This whole case is horrifying! Who does that to their spouse, much less a child?! There's a special spot in Hell for monsters like this 😐

[@velvetbees]

I remember when this happened. The story of the hippies did not sound real. Most people I knew did not believe him.

[@shadowwolf2524]

In my research of this case, a hippie girl dressed like he reported, was reported in the area at the time of the crime.

[@bebreyes4766]

@@shadowwolf2524 They did find her and she was interrogated. Nothing!

[@nicegigi6299]

@@bebreyes4766 she lived to testify in the second trial but died shortly after.

[@GeneRogers-xl9um]

I was stationed at Ft Bragg in North Carolina. This Fort is so gung ho fort! I never saw any hippies anywhere at Fort Bragg . Ft Bragg is home to the 82nd Airborne Division, several Special forces (Green Berets) and Delta Force. No way any hippies would go on the property without being caught, being attacked by soldiers and the fact they completely disappeared. I never bought his story!

[@heidithaw1072]

@@nicegigi6299 She was a pathetic mentally ill and addicted to drugs. She was. Not involved. Just an easy target.

[@judytaylor3099]

I was living in NC when this happened. I have always thought he was guilty. Thank you for your excellent presentation.

[@trace9657]

I am from NC too, the murders happened before I was born, but I remember it being a topic of conversation for years. I do remember people being angry he was convicted. My grandpa always thought he was innocent, as I got older I wish I could have asked him why. Grandpa was fairly skeptical of people, he passed when I was 12, so I never really talked to him about why he had that opinion. Maybe it is because he had a wife and two girls himself and he couldn't picture a man doing that to their family.

[@judytaylor3099]

@@trace9657 I read the book Fatal Vision that was written by Joe McGinnis that was to show MacDonald’ innocence, but McGinnis, after research for the book, was convinced he was guilty. That, more than anything, convinced me. There are still those that think him innocent.

[@rayross997]

Thanks for doing this one Dr. Grande. Please consider the Sam Shepard case? I see you are going thru your Hawaiian faze.

[@susansjs]

please, I would like to know what you think about the Sam Sheppard case.

[@alliecat4176]

Yes, Jeffrey's case reminded me of Dr. Sam Shepard's case. After Sam Shepard died it was said he was innocent and a man hired to paint the house was the killer. Dr. Shepard's son was pursing this to prove his father was telling the truth. I don't know if he ever did or not.

[@nhmooytis7058]

Could you do the Sheppard Murder Case? I was born in 1952 grew up in Bay Village, the case remains unsolved.

[@rafaelmadrigal9038]

I followed this case since its beginning. Many questions. Very well done. You closed the case.

[@notsonaughty]

Wow I remember reading the book on this guy in high school. I always believed he killed. Such a sad horrible story

[@drdr76]

I read the book about it. He was guilty as sin. He hired a writer to write the book--presumably to show how innocent he was--but the writer himself thought he was guilty. The evidence presented in the first fifty pages of the book leave no doubt in my mind that he did it.

[@Pimpernella]

Great video as always. But I must applaud those new short sleaved shirts, Dr Grande. Portaying a confident, fashionable, mature expert...(if you have a personal stylist or a close female advising you, do compliment her. She knows her stuff, as do you, with your posts... I admire your work ethics and they are also exceptional and very informative. 🎬

[@dumdum3470]

I was a child but remember very clearly my mom saying immediately that he was the murderer. That always stayed with me. The more I read about him the more I am convinced he is guilty

[@selmazopinion]

The Chris Watts case reminded me of this earlier one. Tragic.

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

I think that he did the deed. And if that is true, he is a monster. Those attacks were so vicious and his daughters were just 2 and 5, unimaginable cruelty! Thank you for the review, Dr. Grande.❤️ Also, you shirt is lovely! Blue hibiscus.💙🌺💙

[@bthomson]

Rejane - What about that pony? I just can't forget it! Maybe this is a Jeycle (sp?) and Hyde situation! At any rate it is Chris Watts before We could imagine anything worse! Very sad!,

[@jasherbook]

The Fatal Vision mini series did a good job illustrating this

[@theproplady]

Gary Cole did a great job portraying Dr. MacDonald. I think this was why he was later cast to play Lumbergh on Office Space. He does a great job with those cold, arrogant characters!

[@guardianangel8462]

So my neighbor out here in California told me her father was an MP on base when Macdonald killed his wife and kids. She was 7 and when she got up her dad wasn’t home yet. Her mom wouldn’t let her outside cause something bad had happened during the night then she remembered her dad came in and sat down and she was sent to the living room and she heard her mom asking her dad who do you think did it and he said Dr.Macdonald no doubt. My friend said her father told her later on when she was older that they knew he did it from the moment they investigated the crime scene and heard his story…..

[@alantoon5708]

I spoke with a retired CID investigator who worked on this case. There was no doubt as to his guilt. McDonald was also leading a double life as well. Read the book called "Fatal Vision"...

[@iwantthe80sback59]

The movie is free here on YT. /js

[@andymullarx6365]

I'm glad Dr, Grande got around to this case. I found aspects of the case to be similar to the Sam Shepard case as far as the behavior of both doctors after the murders. Perhaps Dr. Grande will do a video about that one as well if he hasn't already.

[@ReesieandLee]

This story has always stuck with me, I think he’s a sick man.

[@browniehendricks3726]

Look into the case of Martha Ann Johnson. She killed all four of her children. She killed one each time her husband left her. Thanks for your work. You are the bomb. Take care ❤

[@missydehart6920]

I don’t know how I missed this one! I’ve read Fatal Vision so many times I could almost recite it. My 2nd favorite true crime story. I’ve read about several things that would “prove” his innocence and they just make me laugh. The blood evidence, to me, tells the tale. They each had different types so you can map out what happened where and to whom.

[@kathrynj.hernandez8425]

God intervened.

[@donolbers9446]

Drug addicts, as a rule, would not bother going out in a rainstorm, for just about any reason. IF, they were desperately seeking drugs, they wouldn't goof around saying "acid is groovy, kill the pigs". Nope, they would be scurrying out, to go get high. In a dry place. The voice of experience speaketh here, not that I murdered anyone.

[@SY-ok2dq]

I don't think McDonald was claiming that they were desperately seeking drugs although I may be wrong (I watched the miniseries so long ago). He tried to push that they were on LSD or a psychoactive drug, the kind that produces hallucinations etc. So presumably they wouldn't notice rain or be deterred. However, McDonald was allegedly abusing drugs, something like amphetamines or other chemical drugs which obviously he could get easily, at the time of the murders. It could have led to him snapping and becoming enraged beyond control, sort of like 'roid rage (steroid abuse). McDonald had no previous known record of violence you see. I know secondhand, of someone who was an anaesthetist and he was a Fentanyl addict. It ended badly, with a patient dying on the table. He even had to face court proceedings, but managed to get off, but was struck off and couldn't work in medicine again for decades.

[@donolbers9446]

@@SY-ok2dq Yes, in his arrogant ignorance, he thought that someone could be so high that the person would completely ignore the fact that it was raining outside. Extremely unlikely, sounds like the old baby in the oven instead of a roast story.

[@SY-ok2dq]

@@donolbers9446 Well I don't see how much relevance the rain has. Anyway, it seems to me (based on watching Fatal Vision a reality long time ago) that MacDonald just had to make up this story after that fact, as he hadn't apparently planned out the murders. As depicted in the series, he flew into a rage (probably made worse by his abuse of pharmaceutical drugs such as amphetamines) during an argument with his wife and accidentally struck and killed one of his very young daughters, with I think, a baseball bat. On the backswing, as his daughter came up behind him. He panicked and murdered the rest, in order to maintain his image, keep his career, his reputation etc. It seems plausible to me thar MacDonald had not planned it but had one night, just lost control. Kind of like you hear about 'roid rage (steroid induced violence). Normally he kept himself under control, just enough to maintain his perfect image. He was after all, very successful, careerwise. But I've seen some controlled people do seemingly uncharacteristic stuff when very drunk, like their true inner self was unleashed. MacDonald's abuse of drugs may have had the same effect.

[@donolbers9446]

@@SY-ok2dq Yes, my reply is to show how made-up his story actually is. No self respecting stoner is going to go out in the rain and ruin their high, nor is someone on a drug seeking rampage going to stand around performing a candlelight ritual after murdering a family to steal drugs. His story is absurd, to any drug user.

[@istateyourname4710]

Dr. G killin' it with the Hawaiian shirts lately!!💙

[@Annenigmatic]

The excitement of Dr. Grande's switch to Hawaiian shirts for summer is only bested by Isabelle from Animal Crossing when she does the same 🐩🌺

[@lj7460]

My mom went to high school with Jeff and his wife. She was shocked by the news of the crimes. She still wonders what really happened.

[@leilajoyce3868]

He was my son's doctor when I gave birth. This was in California. He had already murdered his family and moved to California. I did not know that. The hospital did not tell anyone. I only found out several years later when it hit the local news that he was going to be tried in court for the 1970 murders.

[@bokagoofy]

"Acid is groovy"? Honestly, Who says that? It's these very fake sounding attack-hippies that seal the deal about the guilt of this dude for me.

[@stormsiren7207]

I agree with your assessment except for the part about the pony. I actually think that the pony could be seen as evidence for that he premeditated the murder as opposed to evidence to the contrary. My reasoning is that, why would he buy the pony then? It's not that he loved his kids. I think he may have bought the pony as a distraction because since he is pleading innocence, people would ask why did he buy the pony for them then? Maybe that is what he wanted everyone to think when he bought the pony. I'm just thinking since he murdered his kids there's no way he cared about making his kids happy so there must have been a more selfish reason for the buying of the pony in my opinion.

[@johnschlottman619]

Ooo, you have a good lead there. I think I remember, just out of reach, various cases where the psycho did something exceptionally nice first, then exceptionally murderous just after. Some bizarre thinking of theirs - could be 'yea, they might as well have a good day since they will die soon'... but still, it could just be buying out of guilt or some other screwed-up mentality, not necessarily a sign of premeditation. But you may have a very defensible point, in MANY cases: I think of these 'trips to Disneyland pre-murder', people 'falling off' of cruise ships - and what about all these 'mysterious deaths' on honeymoons to national parks (always with high cliffs), or weddings overseas (where you may easily figure you can 'leave all your problems behind' when you fly back home). I can imagine how a psycho might think, 'I should at least let them have a final something good'... in fact, it may somewhat superficially resemble the 'good' idea of 'the favorite last meal' for those before execution. I also think of Tony Soprano giving his ex's gold jewelry as he breaks up with them forever. You definitely have a lead on something there.

[@shereemoskow]

I have wanted you to cover this case forever! Thank you!

[@Ammo08]

I was in the national guard in the mid-1980's with two former soldiers who served at Fort Bragg during the time of the murders. These two had wildly different views of what happened...one was adamant that he didn't do it, the other was adamant that he did.

[@Ammo08]

@@katella No "and" about it. I knew something of the case, I had seen the TV movie Fatal Vision; I was then and am still not 100% sure he did it...I lean to the Idea that he did, but I've been on juries..there's still a little doubt.

[@johnschlottman619]

Do you appreciate what you are implying about the average intelligence of soldiers at Fort Bragg?