Arnold & Son Watches

[@rasherbilbo452]

I try to get one of mine on the wrist at least once a week. Underrated brand, IMO.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Rasher, that's great to hear. It sounds like you like them quite a bit. What more could you add about them that I missed? (...I know it'd take an encyclopedia...for what I missed...) Cheers, Bill

[@xMisterVx]

@@watchartsci Hi Bill, I know this is an old video but you're one of the very few sources on these. How do the "Marine Timekeeper" models stack up in terms of quality etc? They don't seem to be covered anywhere.

[@gilbertombp]

Their HM Perpetual Moon is just so gorgeous.

[@watchartsci]

Yes, Gilberto, I couldn't agree more! Bill

[@h111551]

Dear Bill, So many watches, too little time and too little money. We have an AD in Scottsdale that has two Arnold & Sons watches for sale on a close out basis (albeit still expensive) and the watches are both very impressive as to both design and external workmanship. I knew nothing about the multiple calibers until I saw your video this morning. I am not well versed in movement design but you are so I take note that the Arnold movements impress you. While I personally question the conceit of presenting a Swiss watch brand as the spiritual heir to a defunct but distinguished English watchmaking concern, this type of branding is still very much alive and even successful (Bovet and Moser come to mind and there are many others following in the modern Breguet footsteps). The financial support of Citizen is helpful but the essential issue with watch makers like Arnold & Sons is how to connect with both the trade and the public. On the trade side, the AD versus company boutique versus an emphasis on direct sales on the internet (the new Chronoswiss approach even though they still are working with ADs) are in a state of flux. The trade side of the equation is essential to putting the Arnold brand before the public. it is hard to sell a luxury watch without there having been some initial ability to handle and try the watch on one’s wrist combined with being able to speak with somebody who is knowledgeable about the brand. Watchbuys, the German distributor, does events across the country where their watch brand are shown and available for handling and trying on the wrist. I don’t see Arnold & Sons getting much traction with independent ADs because the line is too narrow and does not offer sport or diving watches. I think that for smaller brands like Arnold & Sons participating in organized watch events targeted at consumers makes sense both for the brand and consumers, whether along the Watchbuys model or larger shows like the one you attended in November.I also think that smaller brands need to realize that happy owners are the best evangelists for the brand. This becomes a problem for grey market purchasers as there is no direct warranty registration with the manufacturer. I have purchased two unworn Parmagiani watches on the grey market at your urging as a very effective brand ambassador for Parmagiani (along with the estimable Arthur Leyenberger, another Parmagiani brand ambassador). Leveraging owners as brand ambassadors is something that watch companies should think more about. Doxa owners are at the heart of that brand’s cost effective gorilla marketing. I don’t know if Doxa carefully orchestrates this or if it is spontaneous but it sure seems effective (I was persuaded to buy a new Doxa even though I am a nondiver. I am ready to convince anybody I meet that their life will not be complete unless they own a Doxa). Living in the West, I have numerous LDS friends who have gone on missions at different times in their lives directed at gaining converts. This historically has been an essential function for church members going back to almost the beginning.If I ran a small watch brand like Arnold & Sons, I would be trying to learn as much as possible about the structure and design of these LDS missionary activities and incorporate this learning into the brand marketing programs. Best regards, Howard

[@watchartsci]

Hey Howard...isn't that a crazy mix! An English brand...a Swiss movement manufacture taken over from founder who had to go to jail .... a Japanese watch company who owns the whole shebang...and may actually be a cause for some great watches and movements. Time will tell. (...not a pun..) Cheers, Bill

[@AirborneAnt]

@4:35 whoaaa!!! I did not know that!!!! Citizen owns Arnold & la joux?!?!?!??both?!?!????? Wowwwwww

[@watchartsci]

Yes they do... Citizen also owns Angelus and Frederique Constant.

[@everyones.shadow]

Hi Bill. Another enjoyable video. Thanks. To me if someone mentions Arnold & Son I immediately picture their Moon phase. The one where the moon takes up the top half of the dial. That is as instantly recognisable as a Rolex sub or an AP Royal Oak. I've never seen anything about the movements before nor the brand history. Thanks again for all your efforts. We really appreciate it.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Jeremy, love that double-moon! I think the new version of A&S is heading in the right direction. Always my pleasure. Kindest regards, Bill

[@9804216]

Arnold & Son in recent years after Citizen's acquisition was really churning out some impressive watches. From the Utte tourbillon which was the thinnest (before Bulgari outdid them), the rattrapante, the time pyramid, dead beat seconds, constant force etc; such a show of strength and force in watch manufacturing. Sadly, the designer Sébastien Chaulmontet, the man behind all those models has left and is now with Sellita (if I'm not mistaken) and I'm very curious about what the future holds for Arnold & Son now. Would be a shame to see it fall after such a meteoritic rise.

[@watchartsci]

Wow Ong, that's great information. They may just keep using (and improving) the movement designs that Sébastien Chaulmontet left La Joux-Perret. Why Sellita, I wonder? Maybe they want a tourbillon design of their own? I'll see what I can find out and let me know if you find out further info on that development. Kindest regards, Bill

[@9804216]

Hi Bill, I'm not sure why but I think he is a true lover of watch calibers and has co-authored a book on vintage chronograph movements. So perhaps that may be the reason he went to Sellita. It's quite a shame though, that the actual watch designers of watch houses don't get the recognition they deserve. @@watchartsci

[@watchartsci]

That's a good point Ong. The independents who are both designers and owners like F.P. Journe and Laurent Ferrier get credit for everything, but some watchmakers who create in-house movements are too often ignored and should not be. Can anyone name the watchmaker who created the DUW movements in Nomos? Kindest regards, Bill

[@billcosgrave6232]

Always interesting Bill. Thanks.

[@watchartsci]

As always, it's my pleasure! Kindest regards, Bill

[@almcl9391]

Great stuff Bill. Appreciated. I think the (other) Arnold & Sons was sold to Charles Frodsham around 1843, long before disappearing, then resurrecting the name by the British Masters about 20 years ago. Interestingly, Frodsham came out with a really nice wristwatch this year. Their double impulse chronometer, which is expensive but really nice and has a fascinating movement and very attractive design. You know, there are so so many brands resurrected and to various degrees faking / misleading on their real heritage, you might consider doing a few pieces on these. Even today on my way home passed Alpina 1883 (2002 for me), Bovet 1822 (2001 in my book), Brequet 1775 (1987 for me), Blancpain 1735 (1983 I’d prefer), Czapec 1832 (actually est. 2011), Jaquet Droz 1738 (2001 perhaps), Perrelet 1777 (1995). There are so so many more, trawling the dormant trademarks etc and commandeering fake heritage. Often times they are making great watches, that should stand on their merits and, like trust, build real heritage over time, but I feel there is an amount of misleading, if not the collector/ enthusiast, certainly the ordinary customer. Just a thought.

[@watchartsci]

Thanks Al that is very helpful information. With all of the historical disruptions it’s almost impossible for a name to persist that preserves the original. Christine Hutter has the rights to Moritz Grossmann and has done a good job in keeping some of the namesake’s integrity and innovations in her watches. Likewise Pascal Raffey has done the same. Cheers Bill 👨‍🎨

[@watchartsci]

With Bovet..

[@almcl9391]

@@watchartsci Yes. I think the trademark was sold 1901, resold 1918, resold 1932, resold 1948, resold 1966, resold 1989, 1990, 1994, till 2001 relaunched by P. Raffy. Raffy has been making magnificent watches since 2001, but (my point) just not since 1822

[@almcl9391]

WatchArtSci yes one of endless examples. Instead of Hutter & Co. company formed 2008, making watches for less than 10 years as a fact, we see faked back to an entirely different entity from 1854. There is no premises, tooling, people etc, just fake heritage, because heritage adds to price and credibility. There is a quantum difference in my eyes. Hutter likely will sell on like so many (even JCB with blancpain, purely only a name bought for 2000 Swiss, sold on for 20,000,000), or not last. Say compare to AP, which is not faked and likely has serviced their watches by now and will continue to be able to do so decades from now. Just my 2 cents. It is like calling an ETA 2824 something misleadingly different, deliberately. Not a fan of these deceptions. I’d prefer ‘Moritz Grossman 2008’.

[@watchartsci]

AL McL Raffey just won the Grand Prize at the 2018 GPHG and did an excellent job on creating my 19Thirty. Didn’t Hutter add a Grossmann curve the escapement?

[@washingtonfootballfanwgil8392]

Hey Bill, Where on the food chain does Arnold and Son fit? High or Exceptional Horology?

[@watchartsci]

Redskins Pride WGIL That’s hard to say. I was thinking between Strong and High. Their tourbillons are clearly high. Cheers Bill

[@benpark3612]

Thank you for the great video. Quick question. How does one get a F.P. Journe hat? Hope the answer is not "by purchasing one".

[@watchartsci]

Hi Ben, it was sent to me by FPJ Boutique in NYC. I'm still not sure why, but I don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Cheers, Bill

[@benpark3612]

@@watchartsci Amazing how you read all the comments and respond. Thank you and keep up the great work. Though I may never be able to own FPJ watch, anything related would be awesome. Quite jealous! ;)

[@watchartsci]

@@benpark3612 I can understand that! Some things you never think you'll be able to afford; sometime come your way. Take care, Bill

[@blueshirtbuddah1665]

Hi Bill. Thanks for another wonderful video with even more wonderful watches. Very interesting that they have so many different caliber movements. If my bank account was only bigger. LOL! See you on Sunday's Live Stream.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Bruce, didn't you get a new watch recently...after the WatchTime Show? I forgot what it was. Can you give me a hint...? Cheers, Bill

[@blueshirtbuddah1665]

WatchArtSci Hey Bill, yes indeed, I got a pre owned Jaeger LeCoultre Master Ultra Thin Small Seconds. I sent you an email about a week ago with some pictures, which I guessing you did not get. Let me know and I’ll send them again

[@watchartsci]

That is such a cool watch, Bruce. I couldn't remember which one it was, but I remembered it was a great choice. Let me re-check my email and see if I can find it. Kindest regards, Bill

[@davidwanstall]

I love Arnold & Son, especially the Nebula! FYI, Arnold made major contributions to the marine chronometer, whereas Moinet developed the first chronograph.

[@watchartsci]

Yes David, sorry for screwing that up.It's an important difference since chronometers were the key to naval navigation and the British and French were keen on having chronometers that were both accurate and reliable. Kindest regards, Bill

[@BarisPalabiyik]

A&S UTTE is also an interesting watch, in terms of design, price and thickness.

[@watchartsci]

Barış, yes that is interesting...the thinnest tourbillon...but I missed the price on it. What are they asking for the UTTE?💰 Thanks, Bill

[@grahammorgan1]

Hi Bill, tremendous vid again. Arnold and son are relatively cheap on the pre owned market.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Graham! Thanks man! Indeed they are a good buy used. I'm looking to find ones at 3Hz or lower. Cheers, Bill

[@milanpintar]

the higher the inertia the harder it is to change its speed

[@watchartsci]

Exactly Milan! It's steadier, and best realized at lower speeds. That's why Kari Voultinaln prefers both-larger balance wheels and lower frequency. Thanks, Bill

[@busqda]

Gyroscopic effect

[@upinmyglider]

Thanks for the video. I am really curious about this brand. I am lusting for a gold watch (my first) and can take my pick of several colors of gold HMS1s (new) at Chrono24 for less than $6,000. That movement is pretty gorgeous not to mention the 90 hours of power reserve. A lot of watch for the price of a gold Longines. Tempting.

[@watchartsci]

Say Glider Pilot, what is HMS1? Thanks, Bill

[@upinmyglider]

@@watchartsci See here? www.chrono24.com/arnoldson/hms1--id9059774.htm

[@samhouston5217]

Do they give Family Discounts?! LOL quite nice timepieces but equally spendy.

[@watchartsci]

Hi William, I'm sure they would accommodate you were you to buy one for each member of your family! Cheers, Bill

[@samhouston5217]

@@watchartsci LOL Cheers, Bill

[@fkurcik]

If you want to see a nice movement, you can google "grand seiko 9s mechanical".

[@watchartsci]

Frantisek Kurcik what frequency does it run at?