ART AND LAYOUT FOLLOWUP!! (Errata Text)

A quick followup on my latest video, despite delays. Here I cover a couple of things I missed in the video itself, as well as ideas for future videos.

[@calcium8347]

as an artist, the best advice i can give to small card game artists is to draw your important card arts last, youre going to learn a TON making like 50+ drawings for a game, so your important character cards or big iconic art pieces should be made after youve learnt what works and what doesnt provided you have time. those are the pieces that will be all over marketing and product and you dont want to sell yourself short. john romero made the first level of doom last, and in my opinion that technique is invaluable for any medium.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

Wow. That reminds me of How to Train Your Dragon. That is an awesome movie. There are a lot of dragons that were designed for the movie. One of the last ones to be designed was Toothless the night fury. When he was designed later, he benefits from the experience of the character designers. That was a good move. Toothless is a major character of the movie and even the whole franchise. So getting him to look good was so important. Toothless is my favorite character. He has a lot of personality and expressiveness for a character with no dialogue at all. He also has a nice balance of cute and spooky in his appearance. It fits his personality perfectly.

[@HeavyMetalMouse]

That hotwheels three-number system missed a golden opportunity for arranging their numbers. When you asked what each of the numbers represented, my immediate thought was "The three pedals on the floor of a car." Gas (Acceleration and Speed effects), Brake (Handling and Turning effects), and Clutch (Power and Gearshifting effects). If they could have somehow sync'd up the stats to that kind of paradigm, the numbers would probably be a lot easier to remember, even without symbols.

[@LuvzToLol21]

Speaking of Tabletop Simulator, one thing I've noticed is more and more Kickstarter tabletop game campaigns are starting to release playable demos of their games as mods for TS. It's great because it gives prospective backers a chance to actually try out the game for themselves before they buy in. But I ask of you, game designers: if you're going to make a TS mod, please take the time to polish it up as best as you can. I'm not even talking about adding automation or anything like that, just basic things like making sure the design language is consistent (ie. symbols on the board match what's in the rulebook, looking at you First In Flight) and that players have all the pieces they need. Leder Games, who's idea was it to use a queen piece from chess as the initiative marker for your TS mod for ARCS? Fine, maybe you didn't have time to scan it in for some reason. You could have at least used something like a coin, another stock TS asset, in place of the initiative token. *A token which is meant to be passed between players and flipped between 2 different sides.* The thing is that Tabletop Simulator mods like this are another way to advertise your game to people, if someone likes the way the demo plays they might decide to back your campaign. But first impressions matter, and if your TS mod looks sloppy, what does that say about the game you're trying to sell?

[@urbatect]

Agree with your points. TTS it is a great way to let people try a TCG in this Kickstarter era. Getting a game on TTS it can be done with much less effort compared to developing a custom client, but as you said it helps to go the extra mile and make it look nice and "complete". TTS comes with its problems though, while it is easy to get a game on there, it still is very clunky and slow compared to playing a game in real life.

[@TekoMythmaster]

I'd be totally down for a dedicated video on the Megaman NT Warrior TCG! Or really just bringing back "Cards from the Abyss" in general as a regular (monthly?) series, but maybe with a slightly more preplanned script that better explains how the games are actually played. I feel like there are a lot of cool game ideas that have effectively been lost to history because they got used once for a licensed TCG that was doomed to die when the IP fell out of the popular consciousness. Not to mention the cool ways many of these old licensed TCGs attempted to represent their source material via gameplay mechanics people may never have come up with outside of that context.

[@CardGameCrypt]

I hate to self-promo, but that's what this channel is trying to accomplish. I'm actually trying to finish editing Megaman NT Warrior right now.

[@codenamexelda]

Might I suggest you talk about card effects in more detail? Such as power cost balancing and the different options you have depending on your games design and core rules.

[@Kohdok]

I've noted this before, but the big problem with that is that the only way to really figure that out is to test. Like, a card with the ability "Draw 2" can be very different depending on circumstances. in Magic, it's a middle-of-the-road effect worth just 3 mana. In Pokemon, it's horrifically weak against all of the Draw 5+ cards. In Yugioh, you are expected to BEND OVER BACKWARDS for that kind of effect. And so, it's impossible to talk about it objectively across all games the way I can with layout and symbols.

[@redhood5264]

@@Kohdok I agree but could you talk about resource cost vs power? The only talks I have seen of this are on Hearthstone, but I would love to hear how other card games deal with this ie Pokemon with energy cost to attack.

[@cephery8482]

@@redhood5264 even then it’s not uniform. Yugioh just sits there and goes ‘whats a resource system’. The places where cards differentiate from each other within the same game is usually where they’re unrecognisable between different games. What is ‘power’ in magic and pokemon and yugioh isn’t comparable at all, even before you go beyond the pail to the sea of all games. How important is ATK/power/move damage in your game? How powerful is having every card in your deck in hand? When in turn count do you want your midrange to be? How common do you want removal to be? Internal balance isnt a consistent thing between games like your visual design or your business practises.

[@Zetact_]

A neat thing that came to mind when talking about "cards as pawns" segment is that in Yugioh there is an archetype called Valiants that is literally inspired by tabletop strategy games so they emulate that in its play style by using their cards as pawns and having effects as they move. So it doesn't need to be a mechanic for the entire game, it could just be something that you try out in a specific set of cards. I think that most mechanics that are super ambitious could be tried out with smaller subsets of cards in a more standard game and then expanded more if it turns out to be successful.

[@evilmidget]

I cannot stress enough how insanely helpful these videos have been. One criticism I've had with my DDM reboot has been the card layout. I used power point to make the cards for efficiency reasons, but it made things hard for some people to read. I'm still trying to come up with a good card format, preferably something resembling the original game, but modified to accommodate the crest stats.

[@luchotenks2310]

What is DDM, if I may ask?

[@foureyesisafish7968]

Assuming Dungeon Dice Monsters

[@evilmidget]

@@luchotenks2310 Dungeon Dice Monsters. I've been working on a homebrew version on and off for almost ten years.

[@evilmidget]

@@foureyesisafish7968 yes! I even have a small channel dedicated to the project that launched last year. @dicedimesion if you're curious. There's a video of a full game of the rough prototype

[@luchotenks2310]

@@evilmidget Awesome. Is it a digital or physical version? Also, are you currently play testing it?

[@ivandekad7249]

What they could have done for the Hot Wheels game is fill in each of those spots with a color, like make one green, one yellow and one red. Then in the card texts, you could either highlight the words Speed Power and Performance in their corresponding colors, or just put the color in a little bubble before the type. And the colors I picked weren't random: it's a stoplight. Took me all of 2 minutes to come up with that.

[@redhood5264]

Would love to hear you talk about resource systems more

[@TruKriegsaffeNo9]

I now have a devastating need to have a copy of Japanimayhem. A need so strong it's physical.

[@SketchingHands]

Love this series, really helped me with my game. I rewatch to make sure to avoid all the sins.

[@TekoMythmaster]

Thank you for naming the Acceleracers game! When I saw the tutorial video clip during the last video something in the deepest recesses of my brain lit up like a Christmas tree and it was bothering me for the rest of the video because I couldn't figure out why I seemed to remember it! Now I know! I can't remember for the life of me if I ever actually played the game (although I swear I must have had at least one of the cards), but apparently the little tutorial video and card format got imprinted deep in my memories from watching it way too many times in the bonus features of the Acceleracers Movie DVD or something when I was like 8.

[@urbatect]

Regarding Sorcery and Tabletop Simulator I had the opposite experience. Playing in real life is a lot smoother compared to TTS and the playmat isn't needed beyond one or two learning games.

[@shiftingtidesadvancedtactics]

You're right with the moving cards on a matt being potentially difficult. Removing backward movement almost entirely only did so much for my game but fortunately it isnt too cumbersome. Thanks for all of your videos! I'm learning so much as someone whos just making a board/card game for my long-time LARP group.

[@Spudmay]

Great info, as usual! As for your bit about production and everything there in the middle... Yea, it's a pain lol. I've been trying to figure out all those aspects for some time, but yea, no one wants to lend a hand in that area. The biggest fear is going through a printing company or something, getting bad product, then getting ghosted. But I've done harder things in life and have a few leads lol. If you DO get into enough to create a guide, that would just be amazing.

[@Rayquaza894]

Naw, the art makes it. Without art, ppl wont touch it

[@vladspellbinder]

Thanks for the video Kohdok.

[@elibeaird1259]

I'll be sending my game scattered Nexus to you soon. I have it on tts but thought you'd want to play a physical copy.

[@KryptikTCG]

Thanks for the shout-out. I will be making a video addressing how we have already taken action to correct your concerns.

[@Envy_May]

i can't stop seeing Holy Awe as a plunger, i'm sorry

[@noamkoushnir6024]

Hey kohdok, big fan! Loved the latest video!!! Could you share a scan of the japanimayhem game? It looks super fun and I couldn't find anything about it online🤞

[@fennecfoxfanatic]

On another art and style related note, what are your favorite kinds of holofoil effects? Any that you hate for any reasons like obscuring the text?

[@chaosof99]

I've never heard of this Acceleracers game before, but the thing that immediately annoyed me is that "Speed, Power and Performance" seem like they would be synonyms of each other. Then again, I am not a car-person.

[@Kohdok]

Speed is how fast it goes, Power is how much power is in the engine for things like pulls or inclines, Performance is responsiveness and smooth transition of gear and turning.

[@Todesnuss]

Power, Performance and Speed is a particularly vague way to distinguish stats in a racing card game, visual representation aside.

[@Phantomsangel]

This reminds me of a board game I saw in 2008 at a convention called 'Collateral Damage' where it was pretty much the same premise, but I think with that one you were trying to conquer a bunch of the cities and characters could fall in love with each other. The rules were hard to follow so I ended up selling my copy. It was an interesting piece of anime board game history though. I think I liked it because there wasn't much anime board games then.

[@paigemawile]

for anyone who wants to make something like the example in the beginning, staples probably wont work with any copyrighted images (the bane of my existence at work)

[@Fa-Breezy-Oh]

Hey, I was wondering if you’re still reviewing viewer-made games?

[@chaoticjexak]

he did the thing! yknow i never noticed the lack of symbols for SPP on those cards. alternatively i guess they could have gone the yugioh atk/def rout and just shorten it to spd,pow,per. also its a shame the game is just...kinda rare now. i have barely enough for a couple of decks and im for sure no where close to a master set

[@Yozzoy]

13:30 Ya honestly moving cards in the new One Piece game is like me and my friends major complaint with it. Like constantly shifting the Don Don cards is super obnoxious.

[@renzallen8251]

I see you are a big fan of chikorita and espeon

[@cinematographystudio]

I can draw, but I’m unsure if my art is “good enough” and I don’t have a budget to pay better artists. Any advice?

[@endtimestcg5146]

Thanks for this one! #MegamanPlaymat

[@General_Ward]

1 tiny tip, I'm a well read dude and it too me a minute to fully understand what you were explaining about the print layers. Maybe dumb it a wee bit more, although your recent videos are all excellent so maybe it was a 1 off. And I know it's a year later but if you see this I have a thought on your "getting to production" research. Contact the company not as a journalist but as a prospective business interest. I work high up in the B2B tech world and you'll hit a series of people that are more interested in transparency than protecting the company legally. But I certainly can't explain much in a comment lol

[@gran1009]

Since you said you were okay with looking at card games: Would you mind sharing your opinion on "Shadowverse Evolve"? It's Cygames attempt to bring their digital card game Shadowverse into the form of an actual TCG (in collaboration with Bushiroad). Unfortunately it's currently only availabe in japanese so I understand if you wouldn't do it, but your opinion on it would be interesting to hear I think.

[@Kohdok]

I'm waiting for the Laplus cards to come out.

[@skunkwitch39]

Quick question. With the news of the tcg Chaotic getting a reboot have you thought about reviewing it at any point? I thought of it during this video when you mention moving cards around a playmat

[@Arkonu]

You weren't wrong about Arcane Legions. That tutorial was rough... :u

[@hyperjukencardgameofficial]

Distribution is very difficult. As someone off the street bringing them your game, they don't care. You're something no one as heard of, too much of a liability. You need to hit sales figures by yourself and get buzz, consequently get noticed or use those numbers to shove your foot in the door, or take your work to trade shows where they can look at you. The entire system is hard to enter as an indie and a lot of the games that have become prominent recently have connections and/or money to throw around.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

Wow. I know the episode about card art was about how to make the cards get pretty pictures and clear messages. That is essentially graphic design in a nutshell. It is intriguing that the format is pretty consistent across multiple games. This is due to the format being practical for smoother gameplay. The big three all have similar formats. I wonder if the format is a little like the physical shape, size and material of the cards themselves. It is best to stick with standardized parts. The big three do use the same kind of cards. Yu-Gi-Oh is an outlier as its cards are slightly smaller. However it is not too cumbersome, so it gets a pass. Unusual cards was one of the seven deadly sins. Format is probably not as strict as physical cards, but it is important to keep practicality in mind. I didn't notice a practical feature on Pokémon energy cards. The cards have a name and miniature symbol of the top. This is so the cards stay clear as they are being stacked under a creature card. That is neat. Yet is nice to know that it is possible to make a game without fancy visuals. The little game with a manilla envelope and printed paper is a neat example. That is all it takes. I found the tutorial follow up video to be encouraging. It shows that a basic game can be made quickly. This video on art follow up shows that a basic game can be done without fancy visuals. That is more encouraging. A basic game with plain visuals can be a one and done game shared with other game enthusiasts. It can also work as a minimum viable product for a fancier game with more mechanics and pretty pictures. I have one big tip. If you want to make a card game, use index cards. Index cards are so convenient. They are cheap. They are readily available at office supply stores as possibly department stores. They are also just the right size without needing the scissors. Just write in card text, and there you go. I like to write card text on the lined side and doodle pictures on the blank side. Both sides get card name. It is also possible to color index cards. It can give an idea about what visuals to have in the final product. It can also use color coding to keep track of card groups. There are other helpful things. Flat marbles can be got at art supply stores. They make nice game counters, and they come in a variety of colors. There was a sin video of more than a deck and some dice. That video gave a great tip in using dice. Dice has a variety of uses, not just randomizing. They are also bought in a wide variety of stores. I would like to add something. There are fancy dice that come in a variety of shapes, not just cubes. A good place to buy those is gaming stores. I recommend buying dice at the low end. I recently got some low end d20s myself. I got one for each MTG color. I can pick colors based on what character the dice is used on. The low end dice are not that expensive, and thy still work very well as game pieces. So they are perfect for cheap games, particularly those in the RPG genre. The low end dice are apparently made of cheap plastic. The high end ones are more expensive. They tend to look super fancy. like they are made of metal or jewels. I would only recommend this for people that are really into dice. Even then I would recommend it only for really nice and polished game.

[@c.d.dailey8013]

Oh there is something cool in the first video on card art. It is something to keep in mind. MTG art on the final product is drop dead gorgeous. Oh well rendered fantasy art with strong color. Yes please. I think the card art is a bit better after the first few sets or so. The art gets a bit more polished and consistent. Yet in spite of all this, MTG cards can look pretty bland and terrible when they are used for playtesting. The cards are still functional. They just lack the pretty visuals and even the color coding. The only slightly impressive thing is that the cards were typed and printed. I think that does show this idea. A game can be made simply and cheaply without fancy visuals. One just needs to know that a plain game won't draw in a mainstream audience. It is best done either as a little experiment to share with fellow designers or the basis of a fancier game in early development. The plain MTG cards fit in the latter category. On a final note, the idea of a Hot Wheels game is so bizarre. How does that even work?! Cars don't fight. They race. It would probably need radically different mechanics. If someone really REALLY wanted to make a game about Hot Wheels or just cars in general, they are probably better off making a board game. The board resembles a racetrack. The cars are represented by miniatures or tokens. Then the car pieces can move along the board and form a race. If one wanted to get fancy, they can have different cars with different strengths. I was thinking of some cars having better acceleration and some having better top speed. However speed, power and performance works too. I can drive a regular car on the street, but otherwise I don't know about cars. So I am not the best one to design a game like this. Regular Hot Wheels toys are pretty small. So maybe the spaces on the board can be made large enough to accommodate them. Then the cars themselves can move along the board as if they were game pieces. They can even have a rolling motion instead of the usual hopping motion. That would be cool.

[@stillbuyvhs]

Could you add a ~30 second closing screen to your videos? The "next video" options cover up then end of the video.

[@alantellez4957]

There are a indie tcg called DEMI that it seems to be that its gonna be published, so maybe You can talk with the creator, about publishing and that kind of stuff

[@gocardsandstuffshatteredle2406]

are we getting a "free rpg day" vlog?

[@listenergy]

Good day sir Kohdok! Is it okei for me to submit a copy of my TCG ive been working since 2018? Thank you very much.

[@MechaFoxs]

Wait, so you created or helped create MetaZoo and Munchkin?

[@Kohdok]

I consulted on Metazoo's early days. I have nothing to do with Munchkin.

[@BakuMamX]

when you mention “cards used as a battlefield”, where would chaotic fall under that trope? it technically does that but also technically doesnt?

[@oneovertwo1186]

I think he brings up Chaotic in the video he has about the subject.

[@BakuMamX]

@@oneovertwo1186 could i have a link to the video so i can rewatch it?

[@oneovertwo1186]

@@BakuMamX kzbin.info/www/bejne/a3u0ZZWHnbGVbKs Relevant part is at like 26:00 ish.

[@fybso3057]

Kohdok, can i show you the card game I made, I've been working on it for years

[@Dimitar_Tsanev]

I don't see the issue with that Acceleracers game's cards... I mean if it's always 3 numbers and they're ordered the same way on every card it shouldn't be hard even for a really small child to memorize the stats each of the numbers correspond to (as long as there's a rulebook explaining it)...

[@pifilixxiv3192]

I do agree tho it would be difficult to constantly keep in mind related to effects

[@Kohdok]

The cards themselves use the words without the added context of icons or placement, which is where the confusion sets in. You can line up the numbers fine, but keeping their terms straight is the struggle.

[@Dimitar_Tsanev]

@@Kohdok Aaaah, you're right, yeah... I guess I wasn't paying attention, sorry...

[@DeitySkullKid]

My cards are more powerful the less life points I have? Air Neos Turbo time!