Ascended Astarion STILL Stuck In His TRAUMA? | Story Analysis | BG3

[@Louves192]

The more I come to terms with my own trauma, the more heartbreaking the ascension story arc becomes for me. Astarion never realizes what Cazador did to him was horrible abuse, but instead he sees it as almost normal. There is no kindness in the world. The ones in power can just punch down on the weak. It's just how the world works. I recently read something that really resonated with me: Healing is when you can leave the mould that your abuser formed for you and go your own path. Ascension means he accepts the mould he was forced into, because it seems easier at first glance I guess. But the trauma is still there. You cannot heal by burying all that self-hate, rage and feeling of unfairness deep inside until it exploded out of you if something does not go your way. Breaking the cycle (I know some people are allergic to that word) takes effort and is messy. That's why his wording about 'Cazador's palace' in the epilogue is so tragic. Astarion does not live in *his* palace, he lives in *Cazador's* place. The best he can aspire to, is to stand in the shadow of a man who saw himself as a monster and wished to die every day of his existence 😔

[@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan]

please tell me you've written this somewhere else. Such wonderful text shouldn't be hidden in any commentsection. you always find good words and analysis. thank you very much for always enrich my Videos with your comments

[@Louves192]

@@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan thank you for the kind words

[@texteel]

This is why I want an origin astarion run. Ascend, and then go with karlach to the hells. We all will break our chains

[@samday414]

When he doesn’t ascend the conversation you have after is so sweet. He talks about being truly happy just as he is. Tav believing in him gives him the confidence to be himself and not need all that power.

[@prinsauce]

Recently, I bit the bullet and did an evil run and boy oh boy, does seeing Ascended Astarion's development break my damn heart after seeing his spawn route so many times. I've noticed in his graveyard scene when he's talking about his past, that's the first time ever in the entire game he says Cazador's name in a soft-spoken and subdued voice, while usually, he likes to spit it out like vitriol, every single time. Then there's him as Ascendant that does not even utter that name and becomes furious if you do. It's so clear that in his spawn route, his healing has finally begun as soon as Cazador dies. The whole "I just feel so numb" and "I need it all to sink in" followed by his morning-after conversation where he tells you that he keeps repeating the events of the ritual chamber in his mind over and over, reminds me of how one usually processes grief and loss in a healthy way. Not only that, but in the epilogue party, a non-romanced Astarion who's gone to the Underdark will tell you that he burned down Cazador's palace and he's very happy about that place not existing anymore. One moves on from his past and makes peace with the choices that were forced on him, the other puts a lid over all his issues and reverts to his old ways in the worst manner possible because, yes, the healing journey is painful af and it's just so much easier to shove it all down and 'soldier on' but in that case, even if you're free from physical chains, your mind is still bound in shackles.

[@cerulee]

Astarion telling me that he burned down Cazador's palace and I was like "damn bro why didn't you invite me I woulda brought some marshmallows"

[@MJ-mp1fx]

The writers did such a good job of creating a conflict for players romancing Astarion. I was lured in, embarrassingly smitten, by his charm, good looks, and the vampire fantasy. I felt much the same way as Araj, but i wouldnt say that to his face. The player can continue that fantasy through Ascension at the cost of a loving partnership with him, and by sacrificing his opportunity to begin healing. The Spawn route is less sexy, but even though sex is what drew me to him, it's not the reason i stayed with him.

[@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan]

well spoken. some love the seductive, sexy fantasy, (traumatized) part of Astarion - the others what was hidden behind it.

[@amberh709]

This is the absolute perfect way to put it. To me, AA is like a kink. If you're into that, that's fine. No judgment. But it SERIOUSLY gets on my nerves when people try to defend AA's CLEARLY toxic behavior or say he is better than Unascended Astarion. Even Neil and the writers of Astarion said it was the most tragic end for him. If you truly care about Astarion and his healing, you won't ascend him (my opinion)

[@GneissShorts]

@@amberh709 I didn’t let him ascend because I knew he didn’t need to be stronger; if he was real I’d tell him that! Not to be cheesy, but you don’t have to always be strong when you have friends and loved ones that support you. I love Astarion for the man I saw in front of me, not for what he can be. Yes he can be “better”, but that’s not who I fell in love with, I love the man who was afraid to be hurt again, but grew to have faith and trust in me that I would’t hurt him. He and I will grow as people together…well, my Tav will.

[@SkycometAnimeVamp]

That last part I’ve never seen before and it made me want to cry. “No trace of joy.” What has the player done to him?

[@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan]

That's when you do a foursome with the Drow twins.

[@MarinaCorbi]

The wording is slightly different if he remains a spawn during the twin drow scene in the brothel, but he disassociates in both scenarios. Even though he consents, it doesn’t feel right doing that knowing the outcome.

[@olinn_123]

​​@@MarinaCorbiOne of the saddest part about the scene is the line he says before you accept the offer. He sounds so excited to try and even tells you not to worry because he will leave if he feels uncomfortable... And then he doesn't 😭

[@Louves192]

@@olinn_123 That's sadly very accurate tho. The only thing that irks me is that you cannot talk to him about it afterwards, then again he would probably blame himself and be too embarrassed to say anything :(

[@Sun_cica]

I think that's just a refrence that true vampires (or ascendant) can't feel any positive feelings (in this case joy) otherwise they (the writers) would use the same sentence as in spawn rute about disassociating.

[@avashnea]

AA is definitely still stuck in his trauma and, unlike Spawn, he has no hope of ever healing.

[@yaboiredpepper1739]

Didn't know people could be locked out of healing. Huh 🤔

[@avashnea]

@@yaboiredpepper1739 Do you know many people cursed with full vampirism?

[@yaboiredpepper1739]

@@avashneaNot yet, but I start vampire school in a few months and I'm sure I'll meet some there.

[@amberh709]

TO SPAWNSTARION FANS: To me, AA is like a kink. If you're into that, that's fine. No judgment. It's your gameplay do whatever makes you happy. There's no right or wrong way to play the game. However, what annoys me personally is when people try to defend AA's CLEARLY toxic behavior by claiming he still loves you and is somehow better than unascended Astarion or that's the better end for him. No, it's not. Not according numerous articles and the implications of the game. AA doesn't actually love you. At least, not the same way he did. He is obsessed with you. He owns you (especially if he turns you into his "consort" aka spawn). When AA talks to Tav, it is in the same condescending and manipulative tone as Act 1 Astarion, when he was trying to seduce you into a tactical alliance. If you don't ascend Astarion, he literally tells Tav that he is so thankful that Tav talked him out of it, and that he was becoming a different person. He even says he was blinded by the power, just as Cazador was. He says that Tav believed in him and that he is enough just the way he is. He also says he would have continued the cycle of terror and abuse that started centries ago. Same as Cazador did. To me, I am sorry, but AA is emotionally abusive. He literally starts to become another Cazador and it is so annoying when AA fans hate on Unascended Astarion fans or argue with whoever points that out and try to justify AA's sh!tty behavior. As someone who has been in emotionally abusive relationships with narcissists and grew up with it, that's what your relationship with AA is (how I recognize it). He literally gets angry and calls you stupid when you dump him and says he's better off without you (with or without becoming his spawn) and it states in the game during the scene where he turns you that if you detect his thoughts he believes that you are degrading yourself by remaining with him. If you leave him, he admits he would have used your love and ruined you. He is demeanig and lowkey cruel. He talks about all the spawn he will make for himself. Just like Cazador. Also, AA is in constant competition with Cazador while Unascended Astarion is trying to move on and be a better person. AA wants to rule more than Cazador. Be more powerful than Cazador. Only wants sex and power and lavish possessions (aka Tav). Unascended Astarion wants to make his own path with Tav. Unascended Astarion sees Tav as an equal (says it) while AA sees them as a possession/pet. Astarion ascend out of pure fear and it completely obliterates any character growth he had. Also, if you play Astarion origin and ascend him, you see how paranoid he becomes. He no longer sees the companions as friends, but instead, threats. Also if you romance him as Karlach and ascend him, during the scene where he tries turning you as Karlach, he gets burned and calls her broken and deformed and literally throws her away. NO ONE treats my babygirl that way. Sorry for the long rant haha Edit: had to repost cause someone kept arguing in my comment section and it was annoying af. Especially cause I kept trying to end it. ❤

[@SquirrellySkeptical]

I always love hearing how much thought people have spent on Ascended. He truly is able to reach out to so many of us.

[@Dragon_...]

No offense. But the trauma that took 200 years to form and consolidate will not go away in a couple of days. This injury will not heal even in six months. With a good therapist, therapy will take years. Therefore, it is stupid to expect from Astarion (any) that he will be cured with a snap of his fingers. Let's remember Shadowheart. Even having rejected Shar, having found her parents, her own path, she is in pain, bad, she cries and doubts. And her case is much simpler than Astarion’s - she doesn’t remember much and she hasn’t been tortured for 200 years. So, the behavior of both Astarions (well, you understand me) is (in my opinion) a temporary reaction. It’s completely normal if the “good” Astarion then has a breakdown, he starts to freak out, conditionally he has a regression and other unpleasant things. It is also completely normal if the “bad” Astarion throws out everything that has accumulated through hedonism and begins to “straighten out.”

[@avashnea]

Yes, it will take years, but Ascended will NEVER heal. He's totally broken with nothing that was Astarion left. He's nothing but a manipulative bastard incapable of anything but possessiveness, obsession and the need to dominate. Spawn will heal his trauma over time because he's still capable of love and caring. That love includes loving himself.

[@Dragon_...]

@@avashnea The Larians left it up to the viewers to decide what would happen after the finale. Maybe yes maybe no. Therefore, the rest is just speculation. Therefore, speaking LOUD WORDS about what is certain will be almost meaningless. The “good” astarion will one day lose Tav because... Tav is mortal. Perhaps this will break him. Or it will be unbearable for him because he cannot walk under the sun and pulls Tav with him into the darkness. In short, the ground is fertile for a breakdown. However, the "evil" Astarion cancels his plans due to Tav's wishes. Tav says "we don't kill friends" and Astarion agrees. Tav says “I want to travel” and Astarion postpones the capture of the city for several centuries. For my taste, everything is very ambiguous.

[@avashnea]

@@Dragon_... AA sees Spawn Tav as a possession, THAT is canon and not an interpretation. He calls them stupid if they think he'll ever let them leave and that HE decides their fate now that the tadpole is gone. AA does NOTHING 'to Tav's wishes' after the tadpole's protection is gone. That's not ambiguous or to your taste. he actually says that in game. That you will sit by his side has HE rules. You're a puppet, just like he was to Cazador, with almost all the same rules. That's also in game.

[@hk1371]

Even then, spawn Astarion is still healthier. You've given him a solid support group to turn to, a path he knows exists to be better and the ability to reach out to others. Plus, he's not alone either. He has the other vampire spawn of cazadors that he can also talk to. Ascended Astarion is worse because of what he dies to get that status. He kills the exact same people as him along with also the innocents he had captured for Cazador. All those people he blatantly murdered. Of course the trauma Spawn Astarion went through needs time. And larian jumped the progression for the epilogue but that's meant to show what he would end up becoming. He is on the roght path. See tge epilogue as not actually 6 months but rather a gaze into their futures.

[@yuttasparrow0private]

@@avashnea He only says this if you are considering breaking up with him. God, it’s like you’ve never been in a relationship. If my husband decided to break up with me, I would tell him so many things!.. And yes, it’s really stupid: first agreeing to spend eternity with a vampire, and then change your mind a couple of days later. Does Tav have schizophrenia? Dementia?.. It seems that the word “Forever” is interpreted unambiguously.

[@littlelady79KK]

I like AA . I don't see a really happy ending in Spawn. I always thinking one day my Charakter will die. And he is alone . Perhaps Im a idiot .😅 i can fix my Vampire Lord... one day 😅

[@amberh709]

I understand that. That's why I ascend Gale to godhood. Apparently, if you romance Gale as Astarion origin and ascend Gale to godhood, he can take away Astarion's vampirism (since gods can do, like anything). So I like to think if I ascend Gale to godhood, he can take away Astarion's vampirism and Astarion and my Tav can grow old together ❤

[@littlelady79KK]

@@amberh709 awww thats cute 😍

[@NWard1210]

Why am I being recommended a spawnstarion channel? ‘I can fix him!’ is its own red flag (and AA is best anyway by the law of I say so 😊)

[@CroneCave]

We're not 'fixing' him; we're showing him that he's worth so much as-is.

[@amberh709]

AA is the worst by what we call logic. And maybe you're being recommended this video because you commented on it and therefore are adding to your algorithm. Also, it's not about "fixing him", it's about HEALING him. Maybe, just maybe, some of us can really relate to him and his story and healing him is like healing a part of ourselves.

[@SquirrellySkeptical]

@@amberh709 And maybe some of us relate to healing through AA route. There is not only one way of healing. I am happy you found healing through a similar path to UA. For me it was via an AA type route.