What Happens If You Spear Nightsong But Spare Isobel (And How To Do It)

[@SlimXG]

What's Shar's favorite flavor of gum? Spearmint. (Recorded on Patch 7, version 4.1.1.5849914)

[@fishtank13]

i was scared for a second they patched that out, thanks for clarifying

[@justinburchette]

Pfft 🤣

[@Plaid_pants_panter]

Do you still get the Shar loot if you do this ?

[@SlimXG]

@@Plaid_pants_panter Yep, you get the full set of Shar gear, including the Spear of Evening

[@__Infinity_Hearts__]

can you do this to survive "wish" it seems like it would work as well as they is a certain sound that play to trigger the whole dead party game over.

[@marcinkrz3140]

If you killed Nightsong but you were in a silence bubble so no one could hear you do it, did you truly killed Nightsong ?

[@walabixha1746]

Selune didn't hear her daughter die so that's why she never got depressed and stop giving power to Isobel . True sharran trickery

[@rubyl4480]

@@marcinkrz3140 Schrödinger's Nightsong

[@rogueeshadoww6076]

Shes alive until her death is heard!

[@JSiuDev]

Hmm, but silence is not darkness, should not block anyone sight ...

[@lolthisisatroll]

Gaslighting Isobel to go back looking for her in the shadowcurse is DIABOLICAL 💀😭

[@SlimXG]

😈

[@marcnolan2409]

She'd probably go and do it to bless her 😂

[@rakshithanand8262]

Yas Queen Slay!!! ❤

[@kaleidoscope3234]

she is gonna be fine

[@purplepenguin43]

Dam we need an ending where you get all the way to the epilogue and then isobelle storms the dinner party as a lvl 18 chosen of slune or (or maybe a second avatar of merkle:) and tries to murder everyone for lying to her.

[@kairaaitken938]

Isobel is so damn patient given that Shadowheart just killed the love of her life lol

[@theredeft5319]

Yeah if it had been reversed you know Dame Aylin would fight you right there and do the back breaker move on your PC that she did to Lorraquin.

[@kairaaitken938]

@@theredeft5319 given the broken builds and F8 she would lose but I know she would try

[@voon1032]

@@theredeft5319 Lorroakan...

[@lefteron6804]

The love of her life AND the daughter of her her goddess.

[@brendanl7675]

@@theredeft5319 Not true. Had Astarion assassinate Isobel in Moonrise after defeating Kethric - and Aylin _cowered_!

[@Kipperton]

"THE CROWN" ...thanks gale.

[@mylariane3675]

This killed me harder than the Nightsong was 🤣

[@00Mike55]

Gale keeping his priorities in check as usual lol

[@Li_Tobler]

MYSTRA.

[@Lars_Ziah_Zawkian]

AAAAAAA lol

[@BerzekGamer]

The Weave.

[@dismasxenakis]

Isobel joking to SH that she will change colour of hair seems to be mocking of SH's new hair but oh boy something has gone terribly wrong...

[@alessandrogarofalo9951]

The fact there are so many unique dialogues with isobel about killing the nightsong, makes me think that at one point in the development it was possible to kill her, while sparing everyone else in last light inn. Incredible how big this game is and how many things are still being discovered after 1+ year

[@MarkEmerAndersonII]

Yeah - this seems like "cut" content - in that it should be impossible to trigger but was left in. But if it's still in there, the internet will find a way.

[@Tryingcounts]

In a way this is also such an inefficient way to do things... Think how many hours and how much money went into this for no reason (no real reason). Stuff like this makes me realise why six years were required... I love this game though

[@TastyFlanPudding]

Im thinking it's probably because it's possible for the nightsong to die in both battles. So technically if u miss fire a crit arrow at her for eg, u can kill her and still win the katheric battle while the cut scene of last light inn dying would never play.

[@baransimsek5943]

@@TastyFlanPudding its not possible for Dame Aylin to die while in battle. Doesnt matter how many times u push her or kill her, she just goes back on her feet. If u dont have Shadowheart with you, you are not even able to kill Dame Aylin in Shadowfell - you hurt her and make kethric vulnerable but she survives.

[@TastyFlanPudding]

@@baransimsek5943 gg then, no excuses 🤣

[@azureberryjam5563]

She says get out of her sight, but she's standing in your camp. The audacity.

[@fosaimaginator3920]

After Aylin's multiple "Begone!" at me in my own camp, i suppose i can take Isobel's "Get out of my sight" 💀 But no promises i wont try to smite her later 🗡️

[@senittoaoflightning4404]

Get out of your sight? How about you get out of MY camp first.

[@russianspy1234]

I had the Tieflings all agro me at my camp at the Tiefling party due to the Mol glitch so this is minor.

[@eviltoad746]

Mol glitch?

[@russianspy1234]

@@eviltoad746 If you talk to the kids in the tiefling camp in a certain order and then annoy Mol, she will report you to the guards as harrasing kids and then the flag won't clear so every time you walk near guard (including at the tiefling party) they accuse you and try to attack you / take you to jail.

[@ceruleanserpent387]

Isobel's voice actor nailed these voice lines, she's really pissed sounding

[@SlimXG]

Yeah, Mia Foo is great.

[@cameronmckillop6448]

The VAs in this game nailed it. Even obscure lines got full treatment. BG3 is a beautiful game.😊

[@chengong388]

LMAO the darkness can't overtake last light inn because you're silenced

[@jayk9068]

Maybe the idea is that Shar didn't hear the narrator?

[@SlimXG]

@@jayk9068 Hahah excellent explanation

[@rubyl4480]

Silence so loud Selune couldn't hear her daughter being murdered. Her strength remained guarding the living instead of mourning the dead~~

[@burningknight7]

@@rubyl4480 Pretty good explanation haha

[@cannyvalley8522]

This is bonkers to think they recorded a unique dialogue just because of one spell, probably was a legitimate scenario but at some point they decided to override it with destroying last light.

[@SlimXG]

Yeah, I assume there was some other method intended at some point. They _have_ put in lines and adjustments just to account for tricks like this, but *that* much dialogue just for this seems unlikely. But who knows, with Larian . .

[@Polomance862]

@@SlimXG I'd imagine they had a circumstance put in place that the player could kill the Nightsong WITHOUT Shadowheart. You get the spear, you kill the Nightsong but the end result isn't nearly as cataclysmic as it is for Shadowheart sacrificing the Nightsong in Shar's name. In almost every character story, you can go through their specificed story segments without them. But only in Shadowheart's story can you not kill the Nightsong without her. Without shadowheart, the death of the Nightsong occurs and Last Light remains unharmed. Take note of the dialogue option of "Too late, I killed the Nightsong."

[@SlimXG]

@@Polomance862 It's certainly possible. The flags checked during this Isobel dialogue seem to suggest as much, since that, "Killed her myself." line actually requires that someone other than Shadowheart kill Nightsong. (There's an alternate version for when Shadowheart killed her, I just adjusted the flags to show this one because I thought it was funnier . .)

[@EujenSandu]

@@SlimXG that's actually interesting. The lore and story says that only shadowheart is able to actually KILL Nightsong. If TAV (non-SH) or anyone else does that, she should just come back to life, again!

[@BingBangPoe]

I'm surprised Isobel doesn't go hostile if you admit you killed Aylin. As usual, amazing videos and finds!

[@KorPharon]

I've banished Aylin using the banish planar spell and killed Isobel in front of her. When she got back she was pissed but forgave me when I gave her isobel's gear I looted 🤣

[@Skozerny]

@@KorPharon You can also do that by luring isobel away from Aylin in the moonrise tower celebration scene, assassinating Isobel, and then returning to Aylin. (It's a neat trick to advance Durge run without condemning Last Light to death OR pissing off Aylin.

[@dakotahondalock5621]

Please make Gale saying “The Crown” a running joke in your videos

[@SlimXG]

And I picked that one from the list of others that I still haven't shown yet hahah.

[@dakotahondalock5621]

I’m excited to see what you have in store

[@cannyvalley8522]

The weave

[@braules]

Mystra 🗿

[@ThalesWell]

What’s Gale’s favorite show on Netflix?

[@bluevern904]

Shadow Curse: Now we shall take this inn! Tav: Shadow Curse: Understandable, have a nice day

[@jimijenkins2548]

Mystra

[@RikkeDK1996]

@@jimijenkins2548 Lathander

[@angmarliche9187]

So...wait... So... Im just spitballing here, Isobel has lines for this situation, that means this was a legitimate outcome. But there's an echo in her voice, I think it was meant to be played at the Mausoleum or Shadowfell. Great work, SlimXG

[@SlimXG]

Nah, the dialogue is specifically meant to play in the camp. It's from the same file as when Aylin is there with her. Any effects on the audio are generated in realtime based on the location you are currently in.

[@kiayaoi]

that lakrissa spearing felt so real

[@SlimXG]

Well, now, she actually won the bet

[@FFVogter.-em6zz]

Where's the money Lakrissa!!!

[@tsogbat6025]

The crown

[@SlimXG]

Karsus.

[@seriousdraw]

Thanks Gale.

[@gureiratto]

The crown

[@normak7041]

Its somewhere in the chionthar

[@karlwittenburg5868]

Mystra

[@bunnyboygamille]

Gale: no thoughts, only crown

[@theredeft5319]

This implies at one point that the last light inn would not have fallen due to this choice, so I wonder why they changed it. It does make sense that perhaps Selune faltered in a moment of grief and let the protection lapse. I guess you would have still been able to team up with the Harpers to assist moonrise? Maybe they thought it was a fitting result of going down the evil route. Also it’s crazy as a cleric/paladin of Selune you still keep your powers. I’m sure it’s only because of the threat of the absolute, but I wonder if Tav is gonna get dropped after the netherbrain is dead.

[@SlimXG]

Hey, hey, it was Shadowheart that killed Selune's daughter. I totally tried to talk her out of it.

[@RikkeDK1996]

@@SlimXG well to be honest if you are a selunite and pick the selunite option saying shar will never stop demanding sacrifices Shart still offs nightsong. and unfortunately the dialogue doesn't really do much to make up for the fact that Shart kinda just betrayed Selunite tav. Love BG3 but that part annoys me.

[@Sedines]

@@SlimXG That reminds me of when I recently told Vlaakith that Shadowheart stole the prism and I had nothing to do with it and Vlaakith kills the whole party anyway instead of just Shadowheart. -_-

[@Al0neStillAlive]

They want to punish you for choosing to kill their heckin gurlboss LGTV slay queen.

[@kinggamereon653]

Damn, I am so impressed about this dialogue existing. Such a specific thing and yet the game has a good amount of dialogue for it it seems.

[@elisabeth9523]

Thank you for posting this! Just did this and seemed to work perfectly. I play as Durge and got the Slayer form because it does say Isobel is dead eventho everyone is perfectly fine in Last Light! I just wanted DJ Shadowheart but you will otherwise not only lose Dammon as vendor but also the ironhand gnomes. This usually makes me have Shadowheart spare Nightsong. Very glad this worked.

[@SlimXG]

Excellent. It works out even better than I would have thought. Everything's coming up Durgehouse!

[@skaterhaube6026]

"What can silence the nightsong"

[@MaleBrawler]

Gale a true wizard of knowledge 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@gureiratto]

A true wizard of the crown

[@Louves192]

This is actually really amazing! Losing Last Light Inn and all the NPCs for act 3 is the main reason why I only ever have Sharran Shadowheart around in my evil murder hobo Durge playthroughs. Which is kinda of a shame because she has a lot of distinct voice lines from normal Shadowheart.

[@SlimXG]

This does pretty much create a best of both worlds for anyone that wants Shardowheart in the party, without the usual drawbacks.

[@CommanderRBD]

I actually recently tested this out with a durge run. Not only did I get to work but I ended up getting the Slayer form. LOL despite the fact Isobel was still very much alive at that point. I did the long right before facing Ketheric, to recharge everything after clearing the tower, which triggered the visit. I guess as long as the game thinks Last Light Inn fell, it counts as killing her? But then again failing to stop Marcus from taking her and dooming the inn that way, counted as not killing her. Which made me kill Shadowheart instead before I rolled back the save. But I had no romances maybe it was because she had the highest approval? Ehh IDK. Such interesting things to mess with. Like leaving Wyll dead for a lot of act 1, and a bit of act 2. Which currently resulted in hornless Wyll but with Karlach alive too.

[@SlimXG]

@@CommanderRBD The scripters were so certain that killing Nightsong would also kill Isobel that they specifically check for the death of Nightsong as satisfying the requirement for the slayer form quest.

[@amycharri]

"The Crown" 😂 Ah I love Gale and his obsession with that piece of jewellery in act 3.

[@ryudragon7]

I am attempting to find workarounds so I can keep the teifling traders from the Grove. That way, when I do my evil playthrough. I can get the most gear from every vender. This helps, a lot.

[@blaym4271]

Hey man soon as you find out post it here. I'm tired of killing my boy Damon

[@JakeSPuwuowo69]

This also lets you KO the Nightsong but still progress Karlach's quest, which is nice honestly.

[@formatomi]

Can you do something similar when raiding the Grove? I know you can “kidnap” Dammon from Last Light before everyone turns into zombies and he’ll be in Baldurs Gate

[@tiph3802]

​@@formatomiwait, what?!

[@Mayhap34]

Same here, one thing I tried was solving the Shadow Druid quest for the good outcome and then leaving the area to the Creche area and then going back. When you go back to the grove all the tieflings are gone with just the druids there. I then finished the grove off with the goblins thinking I'm home free. Sadly, no tieflings at Last Light regardless which is lame.

[@AshBlossomWorshiper]

The Crown

[@SlimXG]

The Karsite Weave.

[@GabbyJFS_02]

Man, Isobel’s VA did some of her best work for a scenario that very, very few people will ever recreate normally in their playthroughs. Kind of a shame, really. But thank you for sharing this! Really really cool, it seems like there’s always more to discover with this game

[@angmarliche9187]

I wish the Player could tell Isobel that Ketheric's source of invulnerability is an immortal aasimaar and Isobel would join the player in the Shadowfell.

[@theredeft5319]

There are lots of weird things like that. For instance playing as dark urge, you find out you are bhalspawn and you can tell every companion about it except Jaheria unless you have triggered the camp scene where she watches you as you have nightmares. Or when finding a literal document that describes Jergel as Withers you also cannot confront him. I’m sure he would refuse to talk about it but it sure is frustrating that the PC won’t acknowledge it.

[@tiph3802]

​@@theredeft5319I mean, Jaheira was onto Durge almost immediately and spoke up as soon as the far more immediate concern was dealt with.

[@SlimXG]

I don't know if Last Light Inn would hold up too well if Isobel went on a vacation to see her gal pal.

[@Morrodin-WH40K]

@@SlimXG True, then again babysitting a few random stranger or reconnecting with the love of your life... ;)

[@angmarliche9187]

@@SlimXG We'll empty the lower floors of Moonrise and send them all there with Jaheira as guard xD

[@Trash_YFF]

I was shocked to see that this video wasn’t from a massive channel. Fantastic video

[@SlimXG]

Thank you. You are quite welcome to help make it massiver.

[@kalicula7718]

Isobel:"How could you kill somone so precious and good?!" Me: "She was very annoying."

[@Morrodin-WH40K]

"Because you never told me how dear she was to you and because you hid your lineage. If you look at it carefully Isobel, it is your fault that Aylin got murdered. How can you live with yourself?"

[@mylesdrake2949]

Tbh, if she wasn't an immortal ally and willing to do a "bane" against an annoying ass wizard down the line I would kill her every time.

[@kalicula7718]

@@Morrodin-WH40K Nah, I'd still skewer her because I can't stand her personality.

[@marcusaaronliaogo9158]

How to durge

[@Fishsticks360]

I can't think of anyone in BG3 with more confidence and less actual combat ability than Aylin. Maybe Naaber, but at least he comes to terms with things.

[@vixevinweria8400]

You can also protect people in Last light from the shadow curse by knocking them unconscious and leaving a light source near them.

[@Dorumin]

The Lakrissa poke should be in game too :)

[@SlimXG]

If only!

[@w3bcor3]

why?

[@Dorumin]

Just did this in my playthrough - confirming it works great. There's also a funny clip of Aylin's forehead in the initial animation of switching to act 3, maybe because Aylin isn't there haha. I also told Isobel specifically not to come to my camp, and she showed up anyways, which is the same thing that happens with Aylin (Jaheira does the same). So that definitely stays consistent, with characters butting into your camp, not taking no for an answer and never leaving. In camp, Isobel's dialogue ended up leading to "It's a long story, but I'll tell it. You deserve to know" and the only response option was "Leave." Hahahah this is definitely not polished at all, I love it. I did take the dialogue options in reverse order at least. I wasn't able to tell her to go find Nightsong on the shadow lands, so I suppose she'll butt in my camp for the rest of the game. Like Jaheira, had I not poked her when she first tried to ensnare me

[@SlimXG]

Yeah, that one line you mentioned blocks out all the other dialogue options. I didn't mention it in the video, since I figured I'm just showing all of the lines, anyway. And even if you tell her that Aylin is still alive and pass the Performance check, she still doesn't leave your camp! She just stands around saying how she can't wait to give her main squeeze a squeeze.

[@chunkycoone5040]

This was great to know about this, great to see isobel turning red

[@melftheelf]

I tried it yesterday and it works! Thanks for the video.

[@travisretriever7473]

Gale: "The Crown." ... Gale, ladies and gents. Gale.

[@Thunder88]

The Crownsite Weave.

[@SlimXG]

The Kars of Crownus.

[@GuiliabusDworr]

Tanks for taking your time to make this video, I really enjoyed the new dialogue, like 90% of the video was first time I seen

[@hanvangoro2724]

love permutation like this.. why this game is so goooood!!! thanks for the guide

[@JakeSPuwuowo69]

"Or Paladin of Shar." Since Larian did say that Patch 7 won't be the final-final patch, maybe, just maybe, that'll be something we'll get to have. And then I'll have to have yet another playthrough. Anyhow obligatory comment of wanting secret dialogue for raiding the grove hidden away somewhere to be added by Larian. And, obligatory comment about Minthara, but this time it's a comment and not a request. I've found recent dialogue in game of her being addressed by Z'rell when returning to Moonrise from the Gauntlet, and also by Balthazar when in your party walking to the gauntlet. Maybe it's bad memory or user error, but I don't remember that triggering before.

[@SlimXG]

Yeah, of course, the only way to actually be a "Paladin of Shar" at the moment is to also be a Cleric of Shar, but hey, it's in there. If you can get me a word-for-word quote of at least one distinct line from those scenes you mentioned, I can look it up and check it out.

[@JakeSPuwuowo69]

​@@SlimXG Don't happen to have the one Z'rel had when returning to Moonrise, but I do have it when approaching the Gauntlet. I appreciate you, and thankfully I screenshotted to show friends. (Also, Reconstituted Marksman is Balth) Reconstituted Marksman: Your pet drow, Minthara, should recognize me. I'm her superior after all. As for these creatures.

[@SlimXG]

@@JakeSPuwuowo69 I can find that line in the same form, with the same checks, going back to the 1.0 dialogue files.

[@christinabutterfield1801]

​@SlimXG pretty sure if you swap shadowheart to paladin you can be a paladin of Shar without being a cleric

[@SlimXG]

@@christinabutterfield1801 Ohh right, since she's always locked into Shar. I was thinking of the other gods for a normal character, since it was possible to set a deity for paladins in Early Access.

[@Apfeljunge666]

it seems to me that this dialogue was meant to be played in act 2 but they changed some Isobel stuff, it's no longer accessible without weird interactions like this.

[@SlimXG]

It certainly seems like there was meant to be some more normal method for ending up in this scenario. All that dialogue is in the same file as the usual Aylin+Isobel version in your camp.

[@fosaimaginator3920]

I always wanted to do this for my evil run, but i couldn't because i didn't want to lose Jaheira, Dammon, the Ironhand, but thanks for this video now i know how! Now i can make Shadowheart a Dark Justiciar without losing potential allies for final battle

[@SlimXG]

Everybody wins! (except Nightsong)

[@trifosasatya819]

@@SlimXG Btw does this lock us up from Find the Nightsong quest? Which means we can't have either Lorroakan/Rolan to become ally?

[@SlimXG]

@@trifosasatya819 I have not played through Act 3 with Nightsong dead, so I can't say. It looks like you _may_ get a chance to Intimidate him into being fine with you killing his master.

[@eureka0521]

I had an especially dark playthrough where SH ended up dying, and I tried killing the Nightsong without her but it was impossible. I tried different abilities and methods but failed. As Dark Urge, there was some crazy evil dialogue options too, basically fully admitting you're torturing her for fun. Ultimately I talked to her and offered a bargain, I'd free her if she didn't turn on me immediately and she was like "you're an evil fuck but it's nothing compared to how many times Kethric killed me" then I released her and we become best friends because she was completely psychotic. This game is insane lmao

[@SlimXG]

And if you haven't seen the dialogue with Aylin if you hand her over to Lorroakan and then tell Isobel to go try to save her (and get herself killed), I highly recommend it.

[@eureka0521]

@@SlimXG omg Durge is a menace

[@Spaxder2]

Last light inn is the only thing stopping me from spearing Nightsong in every playthrough.

[@SlimXG]

Sounds like Aylin's got a rough future ahead of her, now . .

[@vileluca]

Same. That psycho is never walking out of the Shadowfell in my playthroughs ever again

[@yoursonisold8743]

@@vileluca Psycho? What psycho? What the hell are you talking about?

[@leodemooij97]

i actually got some of these after reading EVERY book or scroll or letter i could get my hands on, especially everything to do with their family (some i got from Ketheric and his wife's bedroom, and isobel's old room) and doing EVERYTHING in act 2 except going to the nightsong (including murdering everyone in moonrise, murdering their family members while getting as much information out of them as i could, and the gauntlet of Shar) then talking to isobel in last light inn, get these dialoge options, and only after that i saved the nightsong

[@ChristmasLore]

Same, got most of this dialogue without killing the Nightsong

[@russianspy1234]

Great timing for the algorithm to serve me this. I literally was just about to enter the chamber and kill the Nightsong and wishing the Tieflings didn't have to die. Might still have to kill Isobel after killing Kethoric

[@DeviSerene]

I hope there are more interesting interactions like this because not only are they fun, your videos are amazing!

[@TiredDad2019]

If shadow heart has gained a lot of favor with you she may choose not to kill the night song by herself.

[@SlimXG]

If your avatar isn't part of the conversation, you don't influence her at all and she always kills Nightsong. It's just not a situation seen very often, since your character has to be dead when the conversation starts.

[@NotEmiliaNatsuki]

One of the most rewarding things in this game is saving them both. They are genuinely so sweet, it's awesome to see them so happy!

[@spctvl03]

I love my moon lesi's so much. The voice acting is impeccable and their VA's live stream playthrough was sooooo sweet. Thanks for showing the lines I'd never have the courage to experiment with lol

[@SlimXG]

Hahah that was exactly why I showed all of it in the video. I figured many people might be interested in seeing rare dialogue but could never bring themselves to actually do what's required to trigger it. Especially telling Isobel, "Aylin's fine, you should go find her!" 😈

[@gufo10games.74]

I swear they thought of EVERYTHING when making dialogue for this game, like you may think that you broke something pretty significant, and then they have dialogue specific to that very broken outcome

[@ВладиславБулаев-л3э]

Great thumbnail, man. Lol

[@lettuce2740]

Loving your videos on baldur’s gate 3 man. You do such cool deep dives into the weird intricacies of this amazing game. Really hoping the act 3 honor mode guide is happening as that’s one of my favorite series of yours! Silence is the GOAT!

[@panaceleo]

the crown.

[@SlimXG]

Mystra.

[@Hasselroeder]

I also like 'Silence'. Used it on Priestess Gutt, so she couldn't call reinforcements. One time Aradin was still standing inside and couldn't talk to his archer mate so he was just standing inside. The power of the spell is incredible!

[@AriaVelocent]

"You kill someone so dear!" Yeah for YOU, for me she was just another exp

[@cendresaphoenix1974]

A very well deserved EXP 😊

[@shigesohma]

a cool trick to keep your mc from being forced into convos is to lock them in another convo. my favorite method is to use the flask you get from the caravan chest you get from the Zents in act 1. that way you don't have to kill your character. It's also how I'm able to sneak my character into the iron throne in act 3 without triggering the count down so that I can take out all the enemies first.

[@tinyrogue1320]

This is incredible! Larian really put SO MUCH EFFORT into making this game and it really shows! Also, I find it disturbing that you can actually abuse Silence like this and get away with it lol Thank you for this very entertaining and informative video!

[@SlimXG]

Thank you very much for watching it!

[@hiropisku1078]

Shadow Curse: "Pack it up, boys. Little light inn is off limits. They didnt say the line"

[@travishartzler9155]

Now I have something worth checking out while waiting for patch 7 on Xbox. Thanks!

[@Polomance862]

I think the only concern I have in this dialogue when you disclose Aylin's fate. A deception roll really isn't mandatory when she really hasn't any reason not to believe you if Ketheric was able to take control of her immortality. Sure, she wants to find her beloved yet I feel like there's many ways they could've made that scene work. 1. Admit to killing Aylin 1.1: Claim she was controlled and couldn't be rationalized with.(Lie - Pretend not being able to stop her.) 1.2: Claim Aylin requested to be killed to stop Ketheric. (Lie - Make it sound like Aylin's heroic sacrifice.) 1.3: Admit to knowing no other way to make Ketheric vulnerable. (Truth - Only Aylin tells you how to break the curse on her and she doesn't disclose that until Shadowheart throws the spear away.) 1.4 Admit wanting to kill a demi-god. (Truth - You chose to kill a divine creature just to piss off Isobel.)

[@RikkeDK1996]

yeah the deception check was weird. Would have been better if it was more akin to lying about her father corrupting Aylin into something unfixable and death being the only way out etc.

[@archiveacc3248]

Great vid as always, best bg3 game content out there. Also you kinda sound like the how its made guy

[@SlimXG]

People keep telling me that I sound like that guy . . 🤔

[@Jess-wq3nr]

Bruh the whiplash of watching the video and then seeing it again in my recommended with a new thumbnail 😂

[@SlimXG]

Welp, better watch it again just to make sure it's the same video you remember

[@Pantaleimonification]

Tried this out today. It worked, and Durge gets their iniquitous prize?? Didn't expect that.

[@SlimXG]

Everybody wins! Well, except Aylin.

[@fosaimaginator3920]

Wait what? So Durge still gets the Slayer form even though Isabel lives? OMG i'm so going to try this

[@m0stpecul1arway]

Fun fact: if you do this as the Dark Urge (as of December 2024), Scleritas will assume you killed Isobel and give you the ability to use the Slayer form even if she’s in your camp while the cutscene happens!

[@SlimXG]

Yep, the scripters were so certain that Isobel would die after you kill Nightsong that they made killing Aylin one of the events that will satisfy the requirement for the Slayer form quest

[@kd0079]

It is crazy that they prepared a bunch of dialogue for an alternative outcome of an event that is triggered by skipping a cutscene using a spell. I can only suspect that there was some unfinished content here that would allow you to kill Aylin and spare Isobel. It is crazy if they expected the player to somehow bypass the cutscene! By the way, I thought Shadowheart has a hidden Nightsong score that decides whether she will autonomously kill Aylin?

[@SlimXG]

That Isobel dialogue has been in the game since at least version 1.0, so it's certainly possible that they had some other method in mind during development that didn't make it in. Shadowheart's Nightsong Points can play a part in how easy it is to spare Aylin (though 40+ Approval is the more important factor). But that's only true if your player avatar is in the conversation to influence her. If your character is dead (or probably other things, like Silenced, polymorphed, etc.) when the dialogue starts, Shadowheart goes down a totally separate conversation branch where she always kills the Nightsong, provided she has the Spear of Night.

[@kd0079]

@@SlimXG I see! Thanks for the clarification!

[@socalminstrel]

Isobel seems a little worked up.

[@SlimXG]

I dunno; she seemed pretty happy when you show her on the map where to go find Aylin.

[@socalminstrel]

@@SlimXG True. Lesson learned: lies make people happiest.

[@vileluca]

​@@socalminstrel I mean Aylin has been killed by hundreds of Dark Justiciars before, hasn't she? She just comes back to life to be fodder for the next one. There's nothing to imply this won't happen again.

[@ChalkyMonkey6]

@@vilelucaCept with that specific spear she ded ded

[@fosaimaginator3920]

Except that when Shadowheart uses that spear, Aylin is permanently dead,, Aylin says that herself when Shart pierces her. "A true death, at last" ​@@vileluca

[@gagapandega1668]

This is so cool! Thank you for sharing this method

[@jimdelsol1941]

Impressive findings and thank you for the video !

[@SlimXG]

Thank you for the watching!

[@justinburchette]

I love your videos, mate! They're always so informative and entertaining. I love discovering new things about this game that I'll (probably) never actually get to experience for myself. I'm on PS5, so my options are pretty limited as far as fixing bugs and shit is concerned - but Isobel hasn't been in my camp (or anywhere else, afaik) since the beginning of Act Three. And by that, I mean the last time I saw & spoke to her was at Moonrise Towers at the end of Act Two - and even then she acted super strange; like her and Dame Aylin never spoke to or about each other, they never had a reunion scene... none of that. It really sucks, and not just for story purposes, either - because I really wanted to knock her ass out and steal her unique equipment 😭 (Also, every time I see Isobel I have a little bit of whiplash... because she looks almost _exactly_ like one of my ex-girlfriend's lol 😒)

[@SlimXG]

Thank you! Wish I could help with your Isobel issue, but I don't know what happened to you, there.

[@justinburchette]

@@SlimXG Minthara happened lol. Well, ok, I don't know that _for sure..._ but I suspect getting her & Halsin both on my good playthrough had something to do with it. I only say that because it's also caused other issues to pop up here and there that never happened before I recruited her... so I can only assume. Oh well 😮‍💨 thanks anyways, though! _Hot drow > normal gameplay experience._

[@island_dancer]

I just got to act 3 and Isobel isn't showing up in camp for me either...

[@justinburchette]

@@island_dancer Yeah, it really sucks. I missed out on a lot of cutscenes and dialogue with her / her and Dame Aylin / her and everyone else :( I also encountered another super fun glitch where my Debtor's Attire will just completely disappear the moment I leave the House of Hope lol. So now I can't even go back in there anymore unless I'm ready to fight the whole entire house. I was really, REALLY hoping the new patch would fix this nonsense. I even submitted a bug report... but nope, nothing. Now, here we are... 😮‍💨

[@jrrthompson1996]

Isobel is writing checks with her mouth that her HP can't cash lmao. What's she gonna do to the party that killed an immortal daughter of selune?!

[@JustGamingSweden]

That’s not really a flex considering she was trapped and couldn’t fight back. Better to say the party killed a chosen of Myrkul.

[@Андрей-й3ю5х]

you meant son of selune

[@RikkeDK1996]

@@Андрей-й3ю5х what?

[@doloresabernathy9809]

Wait, what? how/why would anyone think that Silence stops a cutscene if no one is casting a spell? is there a game mechanics, coding or narrative logic to this? but by the way I am real happy to know this now cause I love DJ Shart but also like Jaheira/Minsc and the Iron Gnome stuff in Act 3. so thank you for figuring this out!

[@SlimXG]

Anyone Silenced is prevented from speaking, which breaks all sorts of dialogue and cutscenes.

[@doloresabernathy9809]

@@SlimXG Aha thanks I never would have guessed. I guess the game is more “realistic” in that way than I assumed. along those lines, i had read online that Raphael can’t sing his big finale song if silenced, but I tried it and it seems to be a funny but false idea.

[@vileluca]

​@@SlimXG it also lets you kill Raphael without him initiating any dialogue.

[@RLBlake]

I did it on my first playthrough! But at that time, the evil options were too bugged and the game considered that Isobel was kidnapped, although this was completely not the case at the time of the fight with the Champion of Myrkul. She had been sitting peacefully in the tavern until this moment. Although in the end this even makes more sense than a bug when everyone survives due to the lack of a cutscene.

[@jeanmouloude]

Gale: The crown Thanks Gale :)

[@MartinVlček-g9l]

Just tried this method with Durge Oath of the Ancients. Got Oathbreaker for this (which I wanted) and Slayer as well (which I didn't lol) Isobel and all the inn lives.

[@SlimXG]

Ah, very interesting. I've still done very little research on Dark Urge mechanics, so this is good to know.

[@EphemeralPseudonym]

You get Slayer after triggering any event in which the inhabitants of Last Light Inn die, I think

[@RikkeDK1996]

i was furios at Shadowheart. I was playing a Durge resist heroic Selunite romancing Shart, I had one innocent kill on my track-record, Alfira. Anyway i was a pure and resisting as the game allows. And even swore to Isobel i would never harm her. then i went through all the shar stuff with Shart and she was conflicted as fuck had all the events related to that trigger and her pacing in camp etc. anyway, She asks me what she should do when confronting 'nightsong' and i pick the selunite option where i say that Shar will never stop demanding sacrifices and she should free her (this always triggers shart to auto-kill Aylin) so anyway, Shart kills Aylin. Last light dies alongside isobel and bang, Shart satisfied my durge against my will and i got the slayer form. i was playing honor mode at the time so no loading for me. i think the worst part about is was the lack of reactivity to this. i couldn't kill Shart for the betrayal and the dialogue options didn't really reflect what transpired. Outside one voiceline if you go back to last light where you can blame it on Shadowheart, only for her to immediately point out you did nothing to stop her. An option to attack her at this point would have been nice. She sure as hell isn't opposed to killing you if you even as much as hint at not thinking its a good idea to do shars will.

[@NaR00W]

What's the organic way to trigger this dialog? Surely they haven't recorded all that for "in case you silence yourself while killing the Nightsong to avoid triggering the Last Light death sequence"

[@SlimXG]

Under normal circumstances, killing Nightsong will always lead to Isobel dying. Using this Silence trick or picking Isobel up and carrying her out of Last Light Inn (which kills anyone else still in there) will keep her alive. This dialogue has been in the game since at least the 1.0 release of the game, so it's possible that there was meant to be a normal method to do this at some point during development that was scrapped.

[@fancypants6062]

High quality video. Thanks for making this.

[@MagicGonads]

so... is the explanation for why silencing prevents markus' assault that... he didn't hear you guys talking so didn't know he needed to interrupt?

[@MagicGonads]

considering that it didn't get patched out and was in fact given support

[@SlimXG]

Hahah I don't know why they actually decided to fix that trick to work properly. It was an odd choice. They _could_ change things more generally to stop Silence from breaking cutscenes, but they seem to like the "Well, if they're Silenced, they can't talk" explanation.

[@Kitalula]

Gale summed up in two words---

[@fable23]

Good to know there's a way to get one of the coolest and best weapons in the game _without_ losing a metric fuck ton of content and later equipment. Even if it doesn't seem like it was intentional

[@rebelchcrik]

it does not work anymore. Maybe guy uses mods for this.

[@sqrrl]

These vids have done wonders for my enjoyment of the game and have Scratch'd and itch for How's It's Made that I didn't know I could get a fix for anywhere else. Needless to say, I'm loving the channel.

[@SlimXG]

Well thank you very much. I'm loving you loving the channel.

[@johnanthonyramos9220]

Still waiting for the act 3 tips. Great video.

[@Polevolter]

To get it, we need to cast Silence on SlimX.

[@SlimXG]

Hmm, no script at all? That would speed the video process up a bit . .

[@MagicGonads]

actually I'm going to cast irresistible dance on SlimX

[@emmaverhaeghe2101]

Just tested that today and as durge you also get the slayer because it considers Isobel and last light dead (even though they’re very much alive and kicking!), amazing for a evil durge with still the advantages of having dammon in act 3, and evil shadowheart

[@SlimXG]

Hah that is great. I hadn't been doing any Dark Urge testing, so I wasn't able to confirm that. I had read people say that killing Nightsong gives you slayer form, but I figured that was just because it also killed Isobel.

[@ItachiUchiha-dt9td]

Is there a way to prevent it though, I wonder? Playing a resist durge, so I didn't want the slayer form, but killed nightsong (while using the silence trick, so isobell lived). I guess there probably isn't.. :|

[@Mr_Smith618]

How do you even figure things like this out? Awesome video

[@lendial]

wait a minute did the devs account for this incredible outlier outcome involving silence silliness?

[@SlimXG]

I really can't say. It seems unlikely they planned everything around using Silence to prevent the cutscene, but then again, they did just make using Silence to skip Marcus an intentionally recognized method, so anything is possible, with Larian. One of the bits of Isobel dialogue that I showed in camp specifically requires you to have talked to Isobel in Moonrise post-Myrkul without Nightsong there. It has it's own unique flag for that scenario. So they certainly planned _something_

[@kebab292]

So if I meet isobel first, protect her and fight marcus, resist to my dark urge at the night, then kill Balthazar first time I meet him and to finish do the trick with the silence when I meet nightsong every think will be all right (rescuit Jaheira and then do the last fight at the moonrise)

[@Besieged1927]

We are going to get a Patch 8 just to fix this new silence workaround now arn't we? Thanks Slim..

[@SlimXG]

>.>

[@moi9709]

Wow this is actually better. Well, lets play this Baldur's Gate 3 again

[@SlimXG]

I'll try to keep coming up with something new, just after you finish each playthrough

[@moi9709]

@@SlimXG Well, Lathander, be damned!

[@Mayhap34]

Question, do you need to take care of Bethazar before the encounter or does it still work when he shows up to fight?

[@SlimXG]

Hmm, you could probably do it even after the Balthazar fight, since you have to click Nightsong to start her conversation, in that case. Should be as simple as moving the Silence caster far enough away to not get pulled into the conversation. But at the moment, I haven't tested it.

[@Mary42877]

The voice acting is amazing, it's a shame we can't see this dialogue without exploits

[@ludvigtheowopaladin]

i was so desperate to do this

[@kwdblade4683]

It was probably intended to be easier to access this. I doubt they'd record so much dialog for something that you have to literally trick the game in to allowing.

[@SlimXG]

Yeah, seems likely there was meant to be some intended method, at some point. You can also see the same dialogue by picking Isobel up and carrying her out of Last Light before you kill Nightsong . .

[@naterardin8053]

I don't think they think of these things as "dialogue for if the player does X". More like "dialogue just in case X is true and Y is true" and how likely (or even possible) it is for X and Y to be true isn't considered as much. This way, if later in development some change is made which makes it easier to have X and Y be true, they don't have to think back through every logical sequence of events that could've led there. Like, if you record dialogue for every meaningful combination of flags, you don't have to worry as much about whether a seemingly unrelated alteration makes that combo possible; you have it covered anyway.

[@loofy530]

Wh-huh? If this can only trigger due to essentially a bug, since the dialogue seems to imply it's supposed to kill Last Light, why does it have unique dialogue?

[@SlimXG]

You'd have to ask Larian to know for sure. All I can say is that unique dialogue with Isobel has been in the game since at least version 1.0. So it's possible that they had intended for there to be a more "normal" way of triggering it but it didn't make it out of the development stage.

[@loofy530]

@@SlimXG Yeah I guess if you didn't end up finishing something, it wouldn't really make sense to go back and scrub what was already there unless it caused issues. That would just be wasted development time.

[@RikkeDK1996]

likely because it was intended to be a viable path. Probably if you had already free'd thaniel and reunited him with Oliver. And perhaps after killing all the thorm bosses in the cursed lands. never made much sense to me how Aylin's death suddenly made the shadow curse much stronger considering Thaniel is no longer prisoned in the shadowfell and was united with the land aswell as having offed 3 sources that sustained the shadows. when you kill of malus (or all three thorm bosses) the shadowcurse drops in danger. You no longer need the moonlantern to traverse the "deep shadows" and regular torches will work just fine. And you can even ignite the lanterns around the area. Normally they would auto extinguish instantly. Aylin nor Selune was never implied to be part of the shadowcurse. It was Ketheric himself and the fact that Thaniel (spirit of the land) being trapped in the shadowfell and torn apart from Oliver being the main reason the curse was a thing. afterall when Ketheric is defeated and thaniel is free and oliver is back the curse is fixed completely according to Thaniel and Halsin.

[@BENJAMOSAURUS]

The thing at the end happened a few days ago with my bard shadowheart but I'm still on patch 6.

[@SlimXG]

The Shadowheart conversation breaking? That one has been like that since launch.

[@Vegeta0585]

she notices this, yet no one even mentions Jaheria died at moonlight towers. Standing by her coprse saying "with you and jaherai to lead us, we cant lose!" .........

[@hfogno]

Just when I thought I'd seen it all.... how do you subscribe to a channel twice?

[@SlimXG]

Hahah thanks. I appreciate the thought.

[@hfogno]

@@SlimXG In case you were looking for more 'unseen' stuff- there's a missing conversation from the game that's supposed to play after DJ Shadowheart's act 3 romance scene. The files are there and not marked as impossible, but it doesn't play and I've not seen anyone upload it. It's related to this node: ORI_Shadowheart_Event_PostNightfall_DiscussionAvailable

[@SlimXG]

@@hfogno Judging by the similar follow-up conversation to the Selune romance skinny dipping right above it, it looks like the flag is mistakenly set to check for true instead of false before triggering the dialogue (and setting the flag to true that has to already be true to trigger . .). It's a fairly short bit of dialogue, though.

[@zoepurcell]

I'm curious, does casting Silence and preventing Isobel from getting attacked also prevent Mol from getting kidnapped?

[@SlimXG]

It does, but she still disappears later and shows up in Act 3, anyway

[@zoepurcell]

@@SlimXG Interesting!! Thanks!

[@michadybczak4862]

I am playing an evil playthrough now and it's the first time I made Shadowheart kill the Nightsong. It turned out she gets awesome equipment that basically can be played as an end-game stuff. Infinite darkness, local darkness on attack, teleportation into the shadows and Shadowheart can then see through the magical darkness. The only problem is, that the default Shadowheart has one attack and cannot utilize this setup efficiently. I wonder, how to create a valid build for her? I guess it will have to combine paladin, which makes sense, she is becoming dark justiciar. However, for roleplaying purposes, she needs to have some cleric levels as well, which already stops the possibility to get 3 attacks per action. Still, she can have 2 attacks with 5 lvl paladin. For some extra attack, she needs to become cleric of war. So now the question is, with 5 paladin levels, should she be 7 lvl cleric, or 2 lvl cleric and 10 paladin? Hmm... Or add different class? But that wouldn't make sense rollplaying wise. It would be great if she was great in melee but offered some good offense spell as well. I guess it's time to test it.

[@SlimXG]

[@Kek393]

7 cleric 5 Paladin. Extra attack for smites Bigger spell slots for smites Better spell list.

[@michadybczak4862]

@Kek393 Yes, but with Pal 7/Warlock 5 as Oathbreker you get 3 attacks per action, 2 spell slots for smites recoverable per short turn and aura of hate which with CHAR 24 gives you +7 to damage. This is more a melee build. It doesn't have that much smites, but you hit on average 50-60 dmg per attack without smite and with haste, elixir of bloodlust and 2H weapon specialization, you get 10 attacks per round plus smites to up your damage when needed plus crits, so you can do 500 dmg per round (counting crits and potential misses). With ring of a mystic scoundrel, you can sacrifice bonus attack and cast some spells. This is by far one of the most powerful builds in BG3. You just kills many opponents per one hit, even if they have 70-90 hp. The con is, you can't get to them all in one round, because you are out of the opponents in your movement range, so sometimes you have to relay on eldritch blasts or bow, which does less damage. However, with bonus action, cast black whole and you have your opponents within reach. Considering various cons and pros, this is in overall the best melee with some spells build that have access to smites but don't even need to rely on them that much, because it hits like a truck. Ah, to explain more, I played githyanki with the sword of astral plane, so I get psychic damage and use this stone that adds vulnerability to psychic damage everyone around, plus psychic damage from the concentration (from ring), plus necrotic damage from gloves. It all adds up. And also +7 to saving throws from aura.

[@Kek393]

@@michadybczak4862 "It doesn't have that much smites". You just answered your own question why the build isn't that great. Better to go paladin 5/war cleric 7 to get 2 base attacks (3 with divine favor) while still having access to Spirit Guardians. Use Divine Intervention to get the Devotee's Mace, and then comboing its passive heal aura with Hellrider's Pride gloves and Whispering Promise ring to passively get free Bless + Blade Ward. Combine this with the radiant orb applying armor and ring and it sounds like it can be a super powerhouse build that spams Radiant damage like crazy. Aura of Hate is cool and all but you need to focus your entire build on damage, when Paladin/Cleric will simply never be a nuke like a Sorcadin. There's also the fact that 24 Charisma will not transfer to a bonus to hit because you'll need Str or Dex for that. Hell, even without the whole Devotee's Mace thing, going more heavily into Cleric you can use all 3x 4th level slots for smites, while also having a 5th level Spirit Guardians active, so you're just doing massively more damage across the board. Then the next round rather then being out of resources, you've still got 3x 3rd level slots, so you still hit harder on the second round then the Lockadin does on their best.

[@RikkeDK1996]

should have been the option if you saved thaniel and reunited him with oliver. after killing Malus the shadow curse drops in severity and doesn't require the moon lantern anymore. so in my opinion, if you killed off all the thorm bosses in the cursed region and save thaniel from the shadowfell and get oliver to return to him, i personally think it would have been cool if Last light would survive regardless of Aylin dying or not.