Ashes Of Creation - Casual Friendly Or Hardcore Only?

[@maryjoness2898]

i m a casual player but i ll probably put in hardcore hours

[@AshesOfOddity]

That makes sense if you really relaly like a game

[@honorabledodger]

Im a casual player who plays around 50 hours a week.

[@AshesOfOddity]

heh it's very hard to define

[@Pugh.Pugh.BarneyMcGrew]

@@AshesOfOddity Well it isn't really, because you cant justify anything other than time spent in the game as a measure of Hardcore/Casual. It is however a sliding scale not a binary, and there are things that will make hours spent in the game more or less Hardcore or Casual. 1. How productive your time in the game is based on Objective. If you spend a lot of your time exploring or RP-ing or working towards cosmetics then you are more Casual. 2. If you are more efficient and follow guides, play the meta, and choose the most efficient grind to level up say, then you are more Hardcore. 3. The more skillful you are the more Hardcore you are. (This could be part of efficiency) 4. The more competitive and PvP (particularly World-PvP) focused the more Hardcore you are. Obviously PvPers tend to boost themselves at the expense of other players. My hope is that AoC will be very casual friendly because everyone is placed on a "Node Team" and there is no control over that team content. Clearly hardcore players will try to cheese the game so they all end up on the same node. What I fully expect to happen is that all the hardcore players will accumulate on a single large set of nodes somewhere on the map, and an Empire or competing empires, will develop. But the map is fairly large an I think you will find that there will be a lot of room for casual players around that empire complex.

[@OreNoNawaErenJager]

@@Pugh.Pugh.BarneyMcGrew u definitely a hardcore lol

[@Pugh.Pugh.BarneyMcGrew]

@@OreNoNawaErenJager I think I am, but I can still acknowledge that a game needs to be casual friendly to be successful.

[@OreNoNawaErenJager]

@@Pugh.Pugh.BarneyMcGrew ye dw i think too 😂👍

[@C_A_I_N_N]

theres a few things i wanna say to your initial comment at like 0:50 which is that while all online games live and die on the new player inflow, a GOOD mmorpg doesnt actually need that because unlike other online games filled with microtransatiosn so they can still get value from keeping the older players, mmorpgs following a subscription model actually can do plenty well by maintaining a high player count and even back in like i think it was 2020 to 2021, steven mentioned they already had projections for 1 million players on launch based on the amount of keys that were already bought and were expecting if i remember right, that number could inflate to even upwards of 6 million. if even a tenth of the million players mark stuck around and kept up the subscription, that would be more than enough to keep the game going along plenty well. basically mmorpgs are games that are SUPPOSED to cater to the harder core players who would put in like a fucking 40 hour work weeks worth of hours into the game at least and with the amount of content ashes has for those sorts of players already, there will be plenty to keep us around so even if its less casual friendly (which is is to be fair) it doesnt matter. i also will add that it is very casual unfriendly because pretty much everything even down to hunting monsters for glint or resources is gonna be heavily social based meaning you need to join a guild most likely especially since pretty much all endgame stuff like dungeon and world boss raids and artisan skills to node and guild wars are all heavily based on having the manpower of a guild at your back and many guilds wont be able to affoard lazy players not logging in frequently enough or long enough when they could possibly have 15 other players who would LOVE that spot and basically put all their free time into the game instead while working a part time job irl.

[@C_A_I_N_N]

i think that your defenition lacks an understanding of what hardcore and casual mean in a useful context because if in your eyes a harcore player is just someone who puts whatever time they can into the game, than theres no meaningful distinction between people who put in the time and the hours into the game and everyone else who has less to put in. like srly i think your only doing this because there usually is such a negative connotation in the mmo space to the term casual but by doing so you basically reducing the terms to complete obselencens. a casual is someone who can only put in limited hours a week with limited being based on the time for progression in the game as well as the type of game it is so putting in like 13 hours a week to a fps game like a cod one i would say has ya bordering on low level hardcore while that same 13 hours into a game like vanilla ark survival evolved on a fresh wipe server is basically akin to saying your gonna be primlocked. in ashes case, 6 hours a day every day is probably gonna be your standard mid level hardcore player while 6 hours a day most days is the low level hardcore player and of course beyond 6 hours a day each day is the high level hardcore and this is based on a quote from steven when he mentioend that to reach max level was estimated to be 45 days straight of putting in 6 hours a day each day while grinding for experience efficently to do it as fast as possible. if your only doing like 13 hours with like maybe 2 hours this one day and than 6 that other day with than the remaining 5 on this one day where you just had the energy just enough to do it, your gonna be taking months to get to max level and thats just the design. i think steven defines hardcore in the same way as you because it gives the wrong impression HEAVILY and only makes the disscusion harder and misrepresents the reality of it because most of ashes of creations money generation WILL NOT come from what everyone else means by casual due to the subscription service and due to that as well as again, the sheer amount of time investment everything takes paired with the need for being in a guild which as i mentioned, many guilds even in MUCH more casually shams of mmos like eso still have idle kick rules where if your not contributing enough to the guild in merchant guilds or just not logging in enough in normal guilds, you will be kicked from the guild making the time you need to invest to find a new guild to join that will be active enough to be there to help ya when you do log in eventually and not all be terminally logged out like you will be near impossible. full stop ACUTAL casual players wont be the ones making the impact and wont be the ones that intrepid will make all the money off of especially since there will be no pay to win to skip the progression the hardcore players will work their way through that other games try to use to milk the casuals while also offering them cool cosmetics that can buy instantly instead of having to work for which again, steven has stated the coolest cosmetic items will be EARNED and there will not be systems like esos outfit system to overlay different cosmetics over just any gear with the closest there will be is set costumes you can buy but thats it. all in all your misrepresenting things from the get go and im not gonna probably comment again unless you make a comment on my take cause i feel like everything that needed to be said has been said.

[@C_A_I_N_N]

ok when i took a shower and let the video restart on my phone i heard your defenition again and i think you agree with me but you just add the extra and i think unhelpful to the nth degree caveat of 'your hardcore if you say you are and casual if you say your are.' now in regards to what you actually said, i still stand by the fact that for one thing, the current 'mmo' playerbase IS NOT IN ANY CAPACITY a representation of mmorpg fans because what the current roster is is watered down experiences that have become an entirely different game genere which again, i call online open world rpgs and that plus the love and reception ashes has already recieved from people praising its hardcore promises, there is MORE than a large enough playerbase to sustain a subscription model with the online open world rpgs reliing heavily on casuals as i defiened them purely because they introduce the pay to win to skip progression and make cosmetics out the ass to compete and often times far exceed the coolest earned cosmetics to encourage new players to join and pay to join more specifically, buy a bunch of pay to win and som cool cosmetics to go with it and than disapear into the void because most dont go for subscription models. in other words, they are made for casuals and so therefor rely on them but that does not mean that harcore mmos are bad and the millions of players WoW had at is peak and how it died when it gave into servicing convinenece with shit like the LFG tool i feel shows how in reality, people want hardcore mmos back and they were only destroyed by corparate suits who thought that by opening things up to casual audiences, they could capitalize on BOTH the casual AND hardcore player base and than bit the big one and had to give in and become full casual only instead to surivive past that mistake.

[@C_A_I_N_N]

all in all, casuals are not needed nor should they be caitered for. im not one to say fuck casuals players tho in terms of actually dunking on them but rather simply only refuse to entertain the notion that they should be treated as the main playerbase when they REALLY shouldnt be.

[@C_A_I_N_N]

3:05 the main skill in ashes ALL is based on teamwork and composition meaning that casuals can try their heart out to improve their mechanical skill and have it mean jack shit cause no guild will keep em for long before kicking them for inactivy and the ones that wont do that are never active meaning they will have to probably only pug with other random solo casuals meaning they will never be able to even really broach ANY of the harder content in the game, let alone get to a point where they could say they are 'skilled' in the way that matters for ashes of creation.

[@C_A_I_N_N]

also something i wanna add real quick, someone who is a casual by my defenition who spends 13 hours a week playing the game at most usually can be DEVOTED and put all their time they can into learning and playing the game while still being a casual player AND someone can play 50 hours a week or something and not be devoted at all if they are just randomly walking around killing mobs for like 10 hours a day, 5 days a week or barely trying to learn how to actually get good. dont conflate the two as one in the same my guy...

[@cococock2418]

"Hardcore only" , ESPECIALLY hardcore pvp, is the quickest way for your MMO to die. Hardcore players have never, even back in the early 2000's, been the majority of the MMO playerbase. It's why WoW has always been king and hardcore MMO's are completely dead. There is a massively long list of games who chose to go with the "we don't care about those players anyway, we don't want them in our hardcore grindy game" and quickly after regretted those words. There's also a MASSIVE, purposefully deceptive obfuscation often made on the part of so called hardcore clowns where they equate "time consuming, tedious, boring nonsense" to "hardcore". The opposite couldn't be more true. I find so called "hardcore" players often despise when a game streamlines the tedious bottleneck problem certain MMOs often have, because they then have to be put on an equal playing ground with players who don't play the game as much. Which is a GOOD thing for the game. Someone who plays 120 hours a week who is garbage at the game should lose in a PvP match to someone who only plays 10-20 hours but used those 20 hours to actually get good. 250 hours to hit max level is also ridiculous and a sure way to ruin this game. Games that make leveling the entire experience might as well be single player open world RPG's because that's essentially what they are. Players treat leveling as if it's the whole point of the game and then immediately quit upon hitting max because they feel as if they've "beat the game". Proper MMO's need to basically just start opening up at max level. They should also have taken a lesson from New World and learned that things like "guild controlled nodes" or control of open world raids is a horrendous idea. Massive open world PvP is also a garbage idea as open world PvP is NEVER balanced and never fun compared to instanced PvP like arenas, it literally has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with "which side has more players consisting of more meta classes/comps". Just always makes me laugh at these terms these self-claimed "hardcore pvpers" come up with to shit on PvE'rs, as if world pvp is challenging lmao. It isn't. Not even remotely. Talk to me when you're a R1 glad and then maybe I'll value your opinion.

[@emptywhy]

Where's the people shitting on PvE'rs, just don't play the game, Intrepid has literally stated it isn't going to be for you if you are a PvE player who cannot tolerate open world PvP, go and play a PvE MMO, it's fine. There are plenty PvE players who will love ashes, who do not need to engage with PvP but will likely end up doing so just to keep some of their mats, you don't need to be one of those people, just don't play the game, stop commenting on videos about it, watch it succeed regardless, and then play it anyway. 😉

[@AshesOfOddity]

A hardcore only game typically isn't popular

[@emptywhy]

@@AshesOfOddity The slightest bit of research will show you that open world pvp (outside of the open seas) is going to be pretty rare and that a lot of combat will look like agressor stopping attacking you if you refuse to become a combatant, outside of contesting rare mats, or perhaps an open world dungeon. It's actually the "hardcore" pve only players that won't enjoy ashes, nor should they, they are the extreme fringe of players, similar to the pvp only players, steven himself had no problem saying this game will not be for those players. It's a pvx mmo, an ambitious one with risk and reward as a key philosophy, if the idea of not being given a participation medal for failing constantly has you pissing your pants, go and play one of the many mmos that are well suited to your supposed preference (cowardice) that bring you zero enjoyment, and you can't quite work out why. No, instead try and critique and influence change on a game that was never intended for you.

[@destroymax2033]

Even the most casual player will face PVP at some point in AoC, but I think casuals in general will have a great impact by practicing their professions and completing comissions. Also they usually like good-looking and immersive games, good soundtrack etc... Not to mention that node taverns will be an amazing spot for role players, I think Ashes will fit to them. On the other hand, I find it extremely unfair when casual players reach highend content in just a month or two, while getting the same value as the hardcore players... Hardcore players should always be stronger and superior. TIme investment is high rewarding in every aspect of life, I think Intrepid should keep that philosophy in mind. But anyways, I strongly believe that casuals will find a place.

[@anteprs7908]

so casuals will be crafting slaves cool ."Hardcore players should always be stronger and superior. TIme investment is high rewarding in every aspect of life, I think Intrepid should keep that philosophy in mind." no sign of ego boosting btw.

[@destroymax2033]

@@anteprs7908 I mean, how do you expect to be better than someone who is putting more hours and effort into he game? I dont see the point in investing hours if I get all the content in 1-2 months. Look at WoW retail for example, its a raid logger game, and most people stop playing untill Blizzard releases another patch so they can have more content... As a casual you should be able to play almost everything the game has to offer, the only difference is that you will be weaker than someone who puts +8h a day, which is obvious.

[@AshesOfOddity]

Time investment normally translates to skill, in MMO's we expect time itself to be power

[@destroymax2033]

Which in my opinion its totally fair. I can't pretend to be more powerful than someone who invests 5 hours a day more than I do, especially in a genre where everything revolves around leveling up and gathering resources to improve your character. Idk... finding a balance in that is kinda hard.@@AshesOfOddity

[@destroymax2033]

@@anteprs7908 I think it's more egocentric to think that you should be able to be as powerful as a hardcore player while playing 2h a day, as you're devaluating their time invested in the game. Not being a hardcore player doesnt mean you won't have fun, it does mean you won't be as powerful (gear, lvl, etc...) We are used to play MMO's where the fun is mainly in the endgame. Ashes is ment to enjoy the whole journey, so everyone will have fun in their own way. Stop looking at other players hour count and start enjoying your own gameplay.

[@0xNobody]

28h per week, 4h per day when family sleeps. I tend to be competitive around pvp, wrecking everyone (or trying to). Idk what that makes me. Back in the day when I could play 10h per day or more I was hardcore for sure.

[@frognyanya]

Whats wrong with reducing the bottleneck down to skill? Almsot no MMOs acknowledge this but many competitive pvp games that exists (regardless of genre) enjoy a thriving community of casuals and sweaties alike. There seems to be this culture now of having to respect peoples time (which is excaccibated in the case of people doing 12 hour shifts) in place of encouraging people to not have to invest time but rather develop a skill. I'm not saying take away progression which has always been a hallmark of the MMO but you can convert time invested in gear/items into time invested in getting better at the game.

[@AshesOfOddity]

I don't mind an mmo being skill but I think that most enjoyers of mmos don't want that as much

[@eternaldarkness3139]

1:14 To paraphrase: The majority of the boring grind will be done by the masses, for little reward. All the best rewards, and exciting content will be enjoyed almost entirely by the Elites. Good quote; wanting to be valued as an individual, but just seen as the masses building the World, for largely no reward. Castles, Metropolis, Major Mayoralties, Flying Mounts, GM crafting, World Bosses, Dungeon Bosses, In-Node housing, FreeHolds. Mostly unattainable by the average player. Even most housing, especially FH's, I expect will end up in the hands of Big Guild "officers". Takes many to buy, but there's only one owner. Temper your expectations appropriately, and just enjoy your room at the Inn, you filthy peasants. Sorry... "Casuals". And good luck taking it from them, in your peasant clothing, against top-tier, boss-crushing guilds. (Power Begets Power) I'm hoping AoC is a huge success for all players, but "I got a bad feeling about this..."

[@AshesOfOddity]

Yeah people won't feel valued if just a pleb en masse, you want to feel relevant

[@stonks87]

well well well if it isn't another Jay Oddity channel I've stumbled across in the wild!

[@bensweeney7560]

This game seems to be designed in a way where hardcore players will lead and harness casual players. Guilds of hardcore players should want to draw players to be part of their sphere of influence as they are valuable to them. If it works like this the game does not need to be balanced. There should be no catch up. And that should be ok. I say this as a casual player. A casual player in an mmo is there to be immersed in and enjoy the world. And if the story of the world is player driven, by the power struggles of hardcore players all the better imo.

[@AshesOfOddity]

Casuals grouping seems to go against the nature of casuals, as it will require work to do it, so we will see

[@willsteuer1621]

Everything a player does in a node contributes to the advancement (or decline) of a node. I don't see hard core/casual as only time-in-game. I can easily play 12-15 hours a day, and I am NOT hardcore. I am very casual. I could care less about high end content and gear. For me it is about the journey, not the dominance.

[@AshesOfOddity]

It's pretty impossible to define but we do know that most casuals don't play that much

[@Azazil-o4b]

If the casual player catches up. It would have to be the same investment no catch mechanism. Cheapens it and I would quit. By your definition I would be causal. I don’t go to someone that goes fishing at 0430 and I go at 0530. Then expect I have more fish it’s obvious he most likely will have more and it’s okay. Games or anything do invest time/energy into should give a reward for it. Next horizontal progression is good as well if done right. Builds and some items should complement different builds have multiple types of BiS. Should be craft/drops throughout the world.

[@AshesOfOddity]

Fishing often isn't competitive, people are doing it for fun, if the game is fun, people will do it anyway. The thign is mmo's reward time over skill most of the time, whereas most real life rewards skill but time makes you better normally

[@Anthony92815]

Traditionally in MMORPGs you're going to see a large population of game developers that whine and complain about solo players; that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

[@AshesOfOddity]

I do find it out!

[@nordy259]

Imo how many hours you play doesn't mean much for casual vs hardcore. Hardcore players schedule their life around their gametime, casual players play the game around their life. When I get into a mmo I can easily average 4 hours a day during the work week and 8 hours on weekends. One thing I can't do is promise I'll be able to be available every Tuesday and Saturday between server hours of 6-9 pm for the guild raid or pvp seige. I'm not missing a night out with friends in order to make a raid with people I've largely never met face to face.

[@h.jonasrhynedahll1013]

My expectation is that the majority of the folks who bought A2 keys over the last year without having a clear understanding of the nature of the game will stop playing within a few days of the launch of A2. I would guess that number will be in the many tens of thousands. Without a doubt, the AoC design is fundamentally geared toward a small subset of the MMORPG community. If I were being honest, I would say that I believe that the game is designed around elitist principles, whereby an empowered minority have access to and enjoy full participation in the upper tier mechanics and the disenfranchised majority are expected to provide the motive force required by the mass participation systems that facilitate those upper tier mechanics. In simpler terms, an aristocracy and a quasi-feudal peasantry. Talking points such as "risk versus reward" and "no participation trophies" are simply disingenuous and self-serving propaganda used to justify the elitist system. This is not to say that I have not closely and loyally followed the game since 2017. I enjoy all the livestreams, am a member of a large, well established AoC guild, and look forward with great anticipation to playing in A2. But, I am one of those who like to follow game development as an end in and of itself, and whether I will find more than a passing fancy in playing the actual game remains to be seen.

[@AshesOfOddity]

I think that reality will hit home soon as well

[@eternaldarkness3139]

100% agreed. I'll wait until closer to release before looking for a guild though, as it's pretty obvious, AoC is just a clever scam 😅.

[@brandoncomer6492]

these sort of games are always dominated by the hardcore guilds; the question is whether it's oppressive to the enjoyment of normal gamers. BDO is an example of a game that's dominated by hardcore players but still carves out a nice gameplay loop for normal gamers. Albion Online is not. That's the line they need to walk.

[@AshesOfOddity]

Aye if it ain't fun, no one plays

[@mrsrefrigerator]

It's CRE ation not CWE ation. Lmao?

[@AshesOfOddity]

My accent is wild

[@Rhaine1337]

Tbh the Carawan system depents on the nodes system itself, if you have an active intresst in your note to devolope then you're more intrested in helping out "friendly carawans".

[@AshesOfOddity]

That could be interesting

[@devondelano7826]

Thank you Jay, you''ve saved me time and money. (liked and subscribed) It's just so odd to me that Steven actually states the current attitude/temperment of the majority of the MMO genre, then makes a game that is, right now, Im my measly opinion the exact opposite of that. Casuals are necessary for plebe'ing and foot soldering and are open to all sorts of lineage 2 pvp system problems from the start. Can't wait to spend a bunch of time gathering and leveling my weapons/armor/skill then have some sweatlord pull a mob on me, me fire an AOE that hits said sweatlord, then I'm purple and neckbeard999 ganks me. ooo yeah where do I sign up for that! Just NO. Like it or not, Casual and Solo players in your MMO's are the majority. That said, if they want to make a game for the elites with lots of time, by all means go ahead. The lesson will come hard, fast, and furious when the huge pve markets says "thanks but not thanks" - no money.. no game. I sound bitter, but Im not, I have nothing invested here but curiousity. I would be AMAZED if: 1. This game succeeds as is. - 2. They don't make a HUGE shift and offer PVE aspects just as New World saw very early one. And Frankly, I don't want #2. If they want to make an always on PVP : MAKE IT GREAT!! I hope it's super balanced and not meta slaved, I hope it's designed amazingly well for anti-greifing and the corrupted suffer appropriate losses for their actions.

[@AxisZtv]

Casual players are the backbone of every successful MMO. Period. You look at WoW, FFXIV, ESO, GW2 there's so much casual content (and solo content which I also think is important). MMOs that want to cater to strictly hardcore players will ALWAYS be incredibly niche. It's why New World 180'd on their game design. If you want to see what hardcore MMOs look like in terms of engagement just google Mortal Online 2 steam charts. With that said I'm worried that being able to PK non-combatants unrestricted seems like a sure fire way to drive away casuals. I remember people quitting Lineage 2 because they literally could not leave the first town without a griefer PKing them. IS has to figure something out to mitigate this which I think the only way to do so is putting the game in the hands of players with that system active in A2.

[@anteprs7908]

but wow use to cater to casual but in retai lit most caterign to midcore and hardcore.

[@emptywhy]

I'm not a hardcore player, certainly not in any MMO's I've played, but I'm not interested in any of the games that are fundamentally designed for the casual player, none of them are fun to me, none of them make me feel like there is any risk involved, and hence any reward, none of them make me feel like anything I achieve in the game is meaningful. So long as Intrepid make whatever you accomplish feel meaningful, be that with the 1 hour, 4 hours, or 8 hours you have to spend on the game, then I think that's the correct way to go, if the game is fun for those hours played, then I do not care in the slightest if I know someone is able to out grind me with more time. I don't really see the appeal of a game that doesn't reward time and effort expended. Make a great game, and it will appeal to a younger audience too, the MMO genre shouldn't only set their sights on the old fart generations who have an hour to spare, that's a sure way to kill off this genre in my opinion, by designing MMO's for people who aren't going to play very much, surely they should set their sights higher than that. The game should attempt to be so fun that you want to find more time to play it, that's what in my opinion every great MMO has had, and pretty much every great game, it should try to compete with those games, and attract their playerbases. I have seen quite a few of these videos, I have a sneaking suspicion it's majoratively just people who want a new shiny MMO with all the bells and whistles, but designed in the exact way that they want, I think most of you will be playing it regardless to be honest, and I'm glad that Intrepid have stayed true to their philosophy, I hope they continue to do so.

[@christopherdaffron8115]

Will Ashes of Creation actually value the time that is being invested by the players? If players invest their gaming time into developing a node, but then some band of griefers comes along and quickly destroys the progress made on that node then I would say that the game does not value the time being invested by players.

[@AshesOfOddity]

Let's hope so

[@andyh4747]

You can be whatever you want to be

[@AshesOfOddity]

Oo baby....don't tell the wife

[@GalacticYuki]

No it's not casual friendly if you're a casual just watch your favorite streamer and live through them. Also I would love to see a video on Steven's shady MLM past of how he made his money or are we filthy gamers are just going to ignore that he's probably a pretty bad person just because he's making a game.

[@AshesOfOddity]

If casuals don't play the game, it is likely going to die

[@Deviantloverable]

I hope this game values skill more than gear..somehow like gw2

[@krystaldavis5238]

why would the hardcore care if the casual catches up to them, cause the hardcore got to that point 2 1/2 years ago!!! that's why!!

[@KroDuK-oo7]

Solid topic!

[@AshesOfOddity]

Thanks

[@veil1792]

*Ashes Of Creation will be for everyone who wants to play a good MMO.*

[@anteprs7908]

a open world pvp game will always be for the hardcore player and that fine as a casual i hope cc can stop trying to get casual into the game .

[@damnsurfer522]

Casually serious

[@EthanH46]

In a subscription based mmo there are no casuals, investing in even a small six months is a big investment. Enough that you should find your place in the balance of nodes/guilds and questing.

[@AshesOfOddity]

WoW is one of the most casual friendly mmos

[@DMM_Fan]

12 hours of enjoyment vs 4 hours of sweating . Which is more enjoyable ?

[@AshesOfOddity]

work can lead to fun

[@charlesm8182]

Ashes is archage 2.0 Steven even talked about playing it and enjoying game but wanted to make it better because the end game sucked after a couple months at max so many just walked away no penalty for ganking players in large groups and penalties in ashes will fail if large group doesn’t suffer penalties if not grouped

[@TheNichq]

Honestly, I think Ashes is going to end up too hardcore and too time consuming. I dont see caravans, death penalties, etc keeping people playing. That stuff worked in 2007, but not 2024. Also, some servers just getting access to better content is a HORRIBLE idea imo. Everyone is going to stack on just a few servers.

[@RussKarlberg]

The problem with this game is the forced PvP. Only super hardcore players will have any hope of dealing with all the griefers.

[@AshesOfOddity]

That is an issue for sure

[@gonmordevol7245]

I never get it when you say that "casuals cant contribute to a node in a meaningful way" I think you don't understand how node contribution works at all. Everybody contributes to the node he/she is playing in. Killing mobs, doing proffesions, doing quest, etc. Just playing the game contributes indirectly by yourself, as you want or not. A casual player will contribute the exact amount "xp" to the node as a hardcore player or whatever player you are. Maybe you want to say "harcore player will contribute more cuz they play more time" well thats obvius but irrelevant. The point is that there seems to not be a formula for hardcores to reach endgame and being that powerful that "they have access to better and more rewarding content" to a node contribution thingy, they can get better gear and better economically maybe, but I guess it has nothing to do with node XP. At the end massive guilds will need citizens cuz I doubt no zerg can fullfil a metropolis by citizens from their guilds. And they also can't control who lives in their city, but more important, they need citizens. The only people that can defend the node are just players that hold citizenship certificates. It will encourage guilds to provide a good gobernent so ppl wanna live in their city so they will have more ppl as soldiers when the times come to defend the node. (sorry my english)

[@AshesOfOddity]

I'm not talking about being a worker, I'm talking about being involved in the decisions... Which is fine but just something to note

[@rwwkv6]

lol at the narc background

[@AshesOfOddity]

Who? Never heard of him ;)

[@King_of_Sofa]

I'm a hardcore miniature painter and a casual video gamer

[@AshesOfOddity]

40k?

[@King_of_Sofa]

@@AshesOfOddity Age of sigmar / warcry stuff. 40k is super rad though

[@andersbengtsson8521]

waaaaaaagh

[@temijinkahn511]

when it comes to PVP, if you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

[@AshesOfOddity]

I like fair fights

[@KroDuK-oo7]

LOL

[@temijinkahn511]

@AshesOfCreationOddity Great, fight in arenas. If the success of your guild depends on victory, asking for a fair fight is putting your guild at risk. Such generalship does not win battles and loses wars. You lose followers and your guild dies in AOC.

[@eternaldarkness3139]

I'll kill a man in a fair fight... or if I think he's gonna start fair fight..." -- Jayne Cobb

[@Kevin-vu9gf]

It's going to be nothing but a toxic pvp player killer game.

[@AshesOfOddity]

We shall see but that is a concern

[@eternaldarkness3139]

That's cuz you're nothing but a filthy casual, who thinks they should have everything. You already have a job and a family, let us Hardcore basement dwellers, have more in life than just Mom bringing us Hot-Pockets. Sure, you pay the same $15 a month, but my allowance hasn't gone up since the '80's. Let me have a moment where I fell like a real man!! I'm being facetious. I hope you're wrong. I hope: land size, social pressure, and the corruption system help mitigate these concerns.

[@emptywhy]

When it's not, are you going to play it?

[@TheRewindSession]

this game is definitely not for fortnite player for sure.

[@bravexheart7]

I am a hardcore casual :)

[@anteprs7908]

that called midcore

[@AshesOfOddity]

I have no idea what I am!

[@RunAwaylilGirl]

Even if this game release it will still be outdated. it looks old alrdy lol

[@Snowydays]

That posture needs a massive fix my guy.

[@AshesOfOddity]

Probably

[@JeremyB8419]

The hardcore players will just be higher up the political ladders

[@eternaldarkness3139]

That's naive.

[@AshesOfOddity]

But also stronger and richer

[@xecor4450]

the player character animations are so lame and doesnt have finesse at all..feels like western dev skill gap compared to eastern ones.

[@deepgreenbear62]

I'm not a fan of open world PVP so I'm actually thinking of giving this one a pass... sadly... it does look good but it looks like it's not for me...

[@eternaldarkness3139]

I don't expect open world PvP to be that big of an issue, the punishment isn't typically worth the reward. Caravans could be an issue, but small guilds should work together. The main issue I believe, will be exclusivity, there's a lot of it.

[@emptywhy]

You won't know until you see how everything lands on release, but more than likely no it's not for you, which is fine.

[@AshesOfOddity]

We have to see the corruption system for sure

[@DMM_Fan]

combat looks uninteresting

[@AshesOfOddity]

It's not my favoured combat for sure

[@SickemDawgs]

Hopefully not casual like New Worlds trash

[@AshesOfOddity]

NW has many issues, not just casual

[@Toxickys]

I hope this game going to be hardcore like wow was at release where noobs never got legendary or very good gear, can't play raid without time investment etc, i hate how wow because the most casual noob game, and i'm not baiting and trolling, there are already a lot boring casual game, time for a real mmo, btw same happening with normal singeplayer games, Elden Ring and Dragon Dogma 2 without quest markers etc are a good direction, the hand holding is too much in lot of games

[@eternaldarkness3139]

I was in a mid-level casual guild in vanilla WoW, we did all of the content. My house was as good as everyone else's. I could craft everything. WoW was never hardcore, just time consuming. Small Guilds were certainly less likely to complete raids, but that's literally all they were blocked from. AoC seems intent to lock away all Endgame progression from everyone not in a large guild. That's the concern. Castles, Bosses, Mayoralship, GM Crafting, FreeHolds, Homes. All mostly unattainable for the average player-base. Even caravans will take a lot of cooperation, planning and praying for smaller guilds. It'll take a lot of players for each server to function, if people don't feel that they're getting their money's worth, they'll leave. Be on the wrong side of a server merge, then... We become the "Casuals".

[@AshesOfOddity]

noobs or people who play the most?