Ashes of Creation - Plans and Guild

[@PirateSoftware]

As we near closer to Alpha 2 launch day I wanted to address some of the concerns the wider Ashes Community has had with our guild size. Ashes of Creation has anti-zerging mechanics designed in to make massive guilds like ours less effective. Further, I hate zerg mechanics such as N+1 in EVE Online since they are boring as hell and not engaging mechanically. This guild is formed into a number of Ministries that allow us to hyper-focus in our areas of expertise. Those Ministries are small by design to ensure we meet guild cap mechanics and have the most elite force in that field possible. The rest of the guild is a community that will gain economic benefit from engaging with those Ministries over working with outside markets or services. AKA, you get a better deal if you're in the guild. This does not mean we will engage in Zerg mechanics, partially because it sucks, partially because we can't. You can read about the anti-zerg mechanics in the game here: ashesofcreation.wiki/Zergs A large creator joining the game doesn't mean the game dies. It means the game gets a ton of players that may or may not stay. I want this game to succeed and together we will have a blast playing it.

[@teufox842]

Sorry but lets be honest. We all saw how "beneficial" its for the game to have creator communities at the launch of New World. While that was in part the fault of New World i will maintain the argument that it doesnt provide any sustainable growth for the game and hunts players away that dont want to engage in cult like followings to one or more creators. So no offense...but i hope their will be lots of different servers and i will gladly play where not a single creator chooses to play.

[@JackieLeggs]

Personally im happy for the anti zerg mentality theyre going for. Everything about this game is exciting me and I can't wait for a solid launch date/window to be announced.

[@davidurban7346]

I was reading your comment just as my weather app said Daniel has been downgraded to a tropical depression. Is it an allegory sign from the universe ? Is Daniel some guy looking forward to his tropical vacation (Aoc) but will end up depressed experiencing (playing) it because a bunch of influencers (creator guilds) showed up?

[@Minoze88]

I'm very interested to see how this plan plays out in a game like ashes. coming from years of archeage, I'm skeptical, but kinda hopeful. maybe it'll play out, maybe you'll be the only guild on the server, who knows.

[@Mike-k6c8y]

Yeah but having a 15k person guild is based off the misunderstanding that this game will have megaservers. If you have a 15k member guild than the entire server is going to be in your guild.

[@GodsRightSeat]

The guild size is intentional. They don't want zerg guilds ruining the game; they want smaller guilds to have a chance. There are guild skill trees that can take bonuses or more members to help balance things.

[@HardHeavySTYLE]

The game cannot afford battles of more than 600x600 This is not possible at the current technology level :D Therefore, there is no point in scaling one guild. Large communities should be divided into many small groups of 300 people and simultaneously capture influence in many nodes. Then it will make sense.

[@isaacribeiro6823]

alot of games just have multiple guilds from the same guild because is too small and they form alliances. each councilc can be there on aliance making it a total of 1500 so i dont understand what his complain is. for example i stop play albion because was z vs z all the time plus camping all day

[@barelymakingit79]

This doesn't prevent zergs, if a big guild wants to do it they will just Zerg with multiple of their guilds. It's a terrible system that has been done before and it's sucks for guilds that have more than 50 members. Also it elitism to the max because only the core guild players get the buffs and benefits, making it where players will just go to a smaller guild so.they can be core members for the bonuses.

[@isaacribeiro6823]

@barelymakingit79 if each guild has 300 and if you get a second guild but is not officially a alliance friendly fire will happend. When I sad multiple guilds as a guild I don't mean officially.

[@leafgreenbeast]

you're just going to end up with incorporated guilds as an alliance rather than one big guild then it's just more cumbersome to manage, but the end result is the same--you wanna join the ministry of violence? rather than simply joining the guild and being assigned the rank/etc for ministry of violence folks, you apply, get approval to join the conglomerate, and are assigned to 'join' guild "MoV_17c", which is being headed up by a dude in charge of this batch of 299 other people for the overall collection of ministry of violence sub-guilds that comprise the whole

[@KoutetsuSteel]

Honestly, I'd argue against larger guild sizes. Not only am I biased because I like a smaller, tight-knit group of people to associate with (I don't want to be just a drop in the bucket, I want to know the other people and play with the other people in the guild), but also monstrous guild sizes lead to complete server take-overs and it makes the game incredibly un-fun for the people who aren't part of the guild (and makes the game less fun for people in the mega guild, too, because their competition disappears). Honestly it reminds me of New World when some of the newer servers came out (after the other servers were full) and a mega guild all moved to that server and split their huge guild into like 4 or 5 companies and just completely took over the server. It wasn't fun at all. I've also seen it time and time again where a mega guild joined a server, took it over, then they stopped playing for whatever reason (the game got boring, they found another game to hop to, or the streamer they follow stopped playing) and then the server just dies :(

[@KoutetsuSteel]

@@hypercynic I've personally never had it happen in my almost 25 years of playing MMOs :( People would rather just take the path of least resistance by joining the mega guild, move on to a different server, or just play a different game. I think 300 people is a fair enough number. I think it's important to have a "smaller" number so that players who were completely unrelated to the action don't get benefits just for being part of a mega guild.

[@komanods45]

Pretty much whole problem that ArcheAge had (and Ashes of Creation is pretty much inspired by ArcheAge). Peoples hate to lose & and don't gain loot, so every server was ending the same after 1 month. All peoples just transferred to be on same side as winning side. And you ware ending with situation where you have like 150 vs 50 etc. on world bosses. Rich get richer situation. It is always funny when losing side just gives up and stop coming for content, and then winning blob start complaining that they have none to farm. Not sure how this will work out in AoC.

[@paperwarrior7411]

Those larger communities don't care about lower member cap limits in guilds. All they do is simply spread their members across several guilds and they will still do the same things and rotate out territory/node/castle/whatever ownership between those guilds, lock out opposing guilds from content, monopolize areas, etc. Lower member cap does nothing, it really is not a solution to solve that particular issue it just rearranges it. Throwing the trash from one half of the room to the other isn't cleaning the room, you just moved it around.

[@coffeegonewrong]

--. I stand corrected. Sorry.

[@KoutetsuSteel]

@@coffeegonewrong Okay, so they'll just stop playing. Better? If they can't switch to a different server to potentially get away from the issue, people will just stop playing.

[@Scema12]

I disagree with his guild issue. Mega guilds completely destroy some servers and sometimes push people out from even bothering to play the game because they control the server essentially. I advocate for causing friction towards these "mega guilds"

[@ecks8214]

I think you come to us from not social sandbox games and are looking at it through a lens of mechanics and influence games that just don't apply here (WoW and GW very much dont have a social sandbox approach)

[@Scema12]

@@ecks8214 I understand “social sandbox” games. However, having guilds that represent 1/3rd of a server is NOT good for the other people on the server

[@nordy259]

​@@ecks8214A guild this size will dominate so much everyone who isn't a member will reroll to another server or quit leaving these guys to PVE only or break up

[@nordy259]

​@@Scema12this is why I 100% plan on checking the forums to see which servers these mega guilds plan to roll on. I'll be avoiding them like the plague.

[@pipz420]

Eve is something I actively avoid because of its take on the social sandbox. I am a final fantasy 11 player and had my own sandbox experience that didn't need 10'000 people guilds. We had maybe 60. If I need anymore then I just won't play. I want to know your name and do content with you not have a 2nd job.

[@WasabithePom]

I do love how excited you are for Ashes of Creation. With that said, I hope they hold to the 300 max member guild/ 4 guild max alliance (1200 players). Servers/Realms are targeted at Around 8-10k concurrent users per realm. They are not doing one server for all of NA...there will be several NA, EU, OCE, and other regional servers/realms of 8-10k max concurrent from what I understand.

[@Y3ntiLS0uP]

I mean the Alliances could further join (offline on discord) into a Conglomerate.

[@WasabithePom]

@@Y3ntiLS0uP Sure you can have a verbal agreement, but there is no mechanism in game such as an alliance for more than 4 x 300 member guilds max.

[@dailyrelaxationstation259]

@@Y3ntiLS0uP thats fine but as long as its not officially supported they cant pvp effectivly as a group. and thats important

[@jacobrubydev]

Bro is running a meta-government

[@SnowflakeHaze]

He is actually going to copy paste it into law in the future. This is just a practice run before he makes us all actually live by his rules xD

[@ephemispriest8069]

I like the small guild size. Keeps people from taking over a server. Pair that with node limitations and lack of fast travel and you can keep people contained to regions.

[@viralshark]

people can still organize separate guilds operating as a unit, there's no real way to completely prevent it in games like this

[@Varichan]

Wouldnt even call a guild the size of 300 "small"

[@gimpg5329]

@@maddonkey764 Isnt that fun though in the long run. Seems like it can lead to a lot of interesting drama and conflict.

[@gaburierusan8179]

@@ephemispriest8069 womp womp

[@ClassicTophatGaming]

I mean, whats to stop people from making 10 guilds full of people and sending them to certain areas.

[@leomeyer280495]

Isn't this just gonna turn into total hell because massive guilds are gonna overtake everything and crush everyone all the time ? Just like Eve ?

[@mgntstr]

some people just love to watch the world burn

[@Goblin_Scout_7777]

not all guilds are toxic, sometimes they just end up with a few bad people who need to be tossed out ~GOBLIN_SCOUT_7777 yarrBongos, yarrBongos, yarrBongos,

[@leomeyer280495]

@@Goblin_Scout_7777 Any social structure that loses individuality through overwhelming numbers ends up deshumanizing itself, and turns bad.

[@Goblin_Scout_7777]

@@leomeyer280495 toxicity is more like law breaking, there is no benefit in the long run. so its not tolerated, it has nothing to do with taking away any right to be yourself.

[@leomeyer280495]

@@Goblin_Scout_7777 There might not be a benefit, but there's a lot of people that act even if they have nothing to gain. Online spaces are incredibly toxic for a reason after all.

[@kamrooz]

I'll take the counter argument. This is one of the things I actively worry about...How big the server population will end up being. What Thor is aiming for might work for a game like Eve...But I doubt it is possible for a game like AoC. When I state this I speak specifically on the amount of players he has and wants to incorporate, not the system he has described, which is excellent. ATM we don't have any idea what the max amount of players which can be accommodated by each realm (collection of servers for one world)...But there will be many realms in each region, that is a guarantee. There will not be a megaserver that everyone joins, there are too many people for that. Being an individual who played Lineage 2, and experienced the PvX, flagging, and corruption systems (which are identical to AoC, and AoC is an evolution of said systems)....It's a blast. Massive alliances fighting each other for who gets the glory of taking down said world boss, and get the rights to unique legendary loot. I remember battling off two opposing alliances in three way fights, each with roughly 150-200 people to see who gets the boss. It was epic and grand, and repeated every spawn window. Spy's infiltrating and getting deets for other guilds, the comradery and conflict between players, it was glorious. But if you scale it up to these massive amount of numbers that Thor is trying to manage...The entire system of balance falls apart. This will be a big issue for any streamer server....They just have too many people that want to join and play, and will end up with servers that are completely one sided, with no way of counter balance....unless it becomes a streamer vs streamer server. The downside of such servers also robs its participants of a much more naturally evolving landscape of guilds and alliances rising and falling....As streamer guilds will have a strangle hold on the server. Who knows though, AoC's server gridding and dynamic meshing technology is revolutionary for the amount of players AoC will be able to support. But I doubt it will be enough to hit the insane amount of players with massive streamer guilds in mind. You can only segment server meshing so much before you hit a cap....and streamer guilds will definitely be an issue imo for intrepid to tackle. Regardless though, wish you the best in your endeavors oh goblin lord. I would love to participate in such a fine system, but my worry of not actually having anyone to conflict with, or push back in a meaningful way sets off alarm bells. Having a server that has capacity nearly filled with people of the same guild raises red flags, and is very much a real issue and likely possibility with 12k players and big streamer servers. Takes the fun out of the game.

[@kank_a4609]

@@kamrooz steven said quite a bit of times they aiming towards 10k ppl servers

[@kamrooz]

@@kank_a4609 Indeed, which lends to the issue with so many players in streamer guilds. I've been following AoC ecstatically for years now, played in A1, can't wait for A2. The 10k has been a basis for a very long time...There is a likelihood that this will increase with their dynamic meshing tech. But even if it doesn't and the aim is sill 10k, pretty much eliminates any possibility of a guild the size Thor is aiming for. Only solution would be to have a multi server initiative. Segmenting the guild to various servers would be the only viable path to take imo. Otherwise it will be an extremely lackluster experience that is stagnated in regards to conflicts and counter force.

[@HardHeavySTYLE]

It's good that I'm not from North America and there won't be such HUGE problems in my region xD 1-2-3k, but not 12k xD

[@ZodiacDemon]

Yea, this is definitely true where much smaller guilds are given no chance to fight against larger guilds of this magnitude given how progression in AoC is directly linked to the node system, so they would be progressing multiple times faster than the average guild.

[@YeetMeDaddy]

The problem with larger guilds is that 99% of them do not share this same vision as you. They just want to zerg everything and dominate the server as soon as they are able too so they can harrass other players. This happens even with small sized guilds, just look at other recent MMOs with their streamer guilds ruining entire servers for small guilds or casual players. If they allow big guilds to exist it will make a lot easier for this to happen and the amount of bad stuff that can come out of it does not compensate for the good stuff (like yours). Guild size must be consistent with both max amount of players in the world and size of said world, so all guilds can have their own space and attrition is generated naturally, because players want to compete with each other and not because a 10k players guild simply dominated a huge part of the map and now you can't even go there without being mauled.

[@locky2127]

Streamer guilds are usually aweful because they just take mass spergs but not actual good players. The guilds that domiate are big hardcore guilds.

[@kinodo8549]

I played eve online for about a month in a medium guild thats was working with one of the big guys, can't remember names. The amount of dedication that game was asking for threw me away, it was like having a second job so i basically burned out. I hope this game can change my view on mmos so i can try it and love it

[@SuperBlackatude]

He wants them to increase max player capacity on servers so that he can fit his mega guild all into one server instead of splitting it up across a few lol. There will be multiple 10k-15k player servers per region but they only expect 10k online at at time and while the mega guild sounds good, in reality its just going to kill a server or turn it into their own personal server. Even a group of 1200 which is 4 max player size guilds in an alliance will have extreme impact on a server unless there are matching 1200 player alliances to counter or challenge them

[@HardHeavySTYLE]

10-20 thousand SIMULTANEOUS online. I don't think 12 thousand players will be able to be online all the time and at the same time :In total, there may be about 100-150k on the server (along with registered offline players). But in any case, these are active players, and they can easily capture half of the server, i.e. one continent completely :D Sounds very "unbalanced" xD

[@nordy259]

All they'll do is create their own pve server since anyone not in their guild will reroll to another server.

[@komanods45]

@@nordy259 And then complain they have none to farm on PvP. Literally every MMO story.

[@MyTeaIsMighty]

Well I know what my plan for AoC is now - Find out what server you're on and choose a different one.

[@Eventide215]

We need a new metric when joining games/servers.. instead of just how many players how many are streaming.. I want to avoid those servers specifically because things like this happen. All the morons that follow the person just want to follow them mindlessly.

[@Y3ntiLS0uP]

I love the lovely little 1984 reference for a propaganda office.

[@NotJoeDad]

We love the Ministy of Truth

[@just_some_good_soup]

@@NotJoeDad The Ministry of Truth endorses this message.

[@KandosX]

"fact checking" on the internet is already the minitstry of truth

[@LordAlderaan]

Ministry of Violence hiring Ministry of Truth to make unsec unsafer so they get more quests from Ministry of Production. Peak sandbox 😂

[@tolkienfan1972]

​@@KandosXexample?

[@moomoney]

Sorcerer (Steven) actually did a lot of what you were talking about in the Archeage alpha. He had a larger guild (I think probably 100+) with multiple departments, including an espionage dept. He paid my pirate guild to escort them on trade runs and would order his “tractor sergeants” to unload the goods. Each ship had a name and he would issue directions to the different captains. It was pretty entertaining.

[@snekkers1609]

Ashes of creation server size is 10k, and its not just one server per region, thats why its just 300 ppl per guild with 4 guilds making an alliance

[@dontfrown3593]

To be clear, I believe that 10,000 player figure is active players logged in and not max characters/players created on the server. That is to say there could be 50,000 unique players attached to a server but only have 10,000 at a time.

[@Warfoki]

@@dontfrown3593 That... sounds like a recipe for disaster. New event drops, 50% of players on server want to see it and want to log in, oops, server's full, welcome to a 6-hour queue, don't worry, working as intended.

[@snekkers1609]

@@dontfrown3593 yes

[@gimpg5329]

@@Warfoki The other option is that the server is a ghost town when its not a new event. Id rather have the server be populated for months and endure one or two weeks of queueing, than no queueing during these peak times but there are no players to fill the world the rest of the time.

[@Warfoki]

@@gimpg5329 Which is why I hate these small, rigid servers. I very much prefer what ESO does: Everyone logs into the same, regional megaserver, and then you get a population cap in open areas, once you reach that, new people arriving will get moved to a different layer, so the game won't have to load in 5 000 people with all their gear, just let's say, 200. And if you form a party, party members get moved to the layer of the party leader. No queue and no ghost town.

[@TrazynPrime]

More pants, its gonna look like that one jimmy neutron episode around here soon

[@themchannel853]

that's such an obscure reference but once I got it I was like omg you're absolutely right 💀

[@DanielMatulich]

Stuff like this makes me worry that there's absolutely no point in playing this game for people like me with small groups of maybe 10 friends. Very little chance of breaking into a meaningful role in a mega guild like yours. Very little chance of ever experiencing any of the city building or mayoral content. Very little chance of really... seeing any part of the game. Essentially the existence of your guild, and the existence of many of the other guilds like yours, will make it mostly pointless to participate in Ashes of Creation. Maybe the money your guilds will generate will be enough to sustain the game though, so perhaps the devs won't care.

[@hellstocker7707]

@@DanielMatulich why I'm glad guilds are capped at 300.

[@wolfdeathnogames5314]

I think the reason guilds capped at 300 is to stop conglomerate guilds taking over the entire map and chokeholding the map from smaller guilds

[@cyberdemon1702]

Thors guild will likely be guilds plural with the cap. But with 10 dudes even a 300 person cap will prove to be a challenge. Best bet is to hit the forums when the time comes and group up with other squad strength groups to build a sizeable force. That’s just the kind of game this one is. Social sandbox MMOs are all about large groups and scale, and it’s definitely not for everyone. I’m looking forward to seeing how it all shakes out. Could be awesome, could be a total dud.

[@drooskie9525]

Most people aren't going to experience mayoral content in general. There's parts of the game that people will likely rarely if ever experience. In vanilla WoW, most people never even raided, let alone get up to the Nax raid. Remember that AoC is bringing the social aspect back in to MMO's, You won't make it far just being solo, maybe a little farther with a small group of friends, but large-scale things like raids, the various node wars, guild wars, guild castles, etc, etc, obviously require more than just 10 of you.

[@wombocombo7557]

I'm in the same boat. I like guild sizes of about 100. Not being able to compete at all with zerg communities would be extremely annoying. Being content gated unless you're part of a 10k guild will 100% kill this game for 90% of the expected player bade.

[@skrubs8189]

Pirate Software Nice throw back EVE Online. I played for many years, I was Skrubs in Rooks and Kings. Always nice to meet another EVE Player

[@dwain194]

You know those dreams were you don't have your pants in school? That what it felt like since the last video

[@ryanjdigiorgio]

As someone who is a long time backer of Ashes, but also a follower of your content - is nice to see you're in on this also - as I very much respect your opinions o7

[@quig4004]

Guild size is fine. In fact, there should be negative impacts to mega "alliances". It should take those X amount of additional people to overcome a specific obstacle to progress that smaller alliances don't have to deal with. Scale's based on X. And when I say "alliances" I am referring to the or .

[@bloodnin]

I was following AoC way back, and I've never been in a large well run guild. I would love to try this out

[@dizzydwarf502]

This sounds awesome. As someone who basically only want to play the game with a sole focus on either crafting or gathering/caravan this type of guild system would be amazing! And yes, have Alpha 2 access.

[@iKrazyyi]

I am SOOO hyped for Ashes of Creation. Ive been following it for a long time. I cant wait to finally play.

[@spartanliam1157]

Sir i believe you are misunderstanding the server size its not a mega server its more like wow servers without phasing server size at launch will be something like 10-15k online with 50k on a server

[@Crimson_Reed]

I think he is more concerned with guild size rather then server size ~ especially since aoc is using a server meshing structure

[@ChurpGaming]

@@Crimson_Reed he thought there would only be one server for NA. the guy clearly did no research on the game

[@DoggyP00]

@@ChurpGaming He said there will be one realm, which is what they are currently claiming. You clearly did no research on the game.

[@justanobody1726]

@@DoggyP00 "one realm" means no sharding or layering if you refer to the server meshing stream. its not mega servers

[@ChurpGaming]

@@DoggyP00 no they are not, they said 10,000 players per server is their aim. a simple google search can find you this info you people are brain damaged

[@Oðrun]

Joined the guild today, awesome folks. Excited for the upcoming alpha 2.

[@squidtentacles3492]

One "not the best" solution to accommodate more people (if they don't increase guild sizes enough) is to have multiple guilds with each guild being its own section. Such as the ministries being in their own guilds, and having the officers as the leaders of those guilds. I don't think you'll ever be able to include 12,000 people this way, but 4 ministries each having their own is already 1,200 at the current guild cap. Though doing it that way you could have 10 different servers built this way full of your goblin empire.

[@jasonmiller2379]

The only issue with that is a potential "Olympus" problem. [If you watched Asmongold and the issue he had with his Classic guild that is what I mean].

[@jeremebillbob6984]

This is terrifying for me to think about for ashes of creation, I really never want 15000 people guilds, that just takes away from any small group experience. It becomes you either join a megaguild government and accept your second job or never play

[@dankmemes7658]

that depends on what they mean when they say the servers are capped at 10k. Do they mean each server grid? Because if thats the case then 15,000 players in one guild might run a grid but thats about it

[@rigormortis3219]

@@dankmemes7658 na they guild size is PERM it might get bigger but NOWHERE near that big

[@camrynburke8101]

I've never played an MMO before but your content on AoC has me hooked. Recently started solo in FF14 to learn basic mmo stuffs. I've watched all of the Vods of Aoc and plan to join it in December. The caravan system as in need as it is has my attention. I can see myself just transporting goods for hours on end to see how the value is affected.

[@Bl4cKs0u7]

That's why I loved Ultima Online when it first came out, the roleplay and emergent gameplay was amazing

[@Kraxhor]

Man I trully cannot wait for the release of Ashes of Creation. I just want to get into the game and try to do something. Because I like if it's big but I don't like if individuals have no power. So this game feels like it has a great balance. Of course I want to go to a guild that will be fun! But I am for one EU based. Still it's gonna be great and I am all in for it!!!

[@KSIAnarchaotic]

My guild in New World ran into a similar issue with guild caps being at 100. We got around it by creating more copies with different numbers at the end, so we had Invision I, II, III, IV, and V, and we just put trusted officers in charge of each. The biggest issue we ran into after that was the smaller guilds complaining to the devs about us "ruining the game" by having so many people under one banner since the game world wasn't all that big. I haven't looked too deep into Ashes of Creation, but if the game world is big enough, then it shouldn't be too much of an issue to have giant guilds of the size Thor is suggesting his will be. The nature of large guilds in sandbox MMOs usually leads to factions developing within the guild, and eventually, groups will start to splinter off and possibly unite a large force to oppose the original group. Also, people who want to make a name for themselves will be turned off by having all the leadership positions taken, so they will eventually leave to start their own thing if it seems like there is no opportunity to advance within the organization past a certain point. There is also the possibility of bad actors who will try to gain influence in the large guild just to sabotage it from within, and that creates a meta of its own when you have 10k+ potential members. I am excited to see how things play out. I haven't played a real sandbox MMORPG since Face of Mankind when I was a Senator representing the merc guilds in the player controlled government.

[@JestyzGrin]

Love this, please talk more AoC as you learn / play it. I will 100% be on the Pirate server even if I don't play in the guild. Community drive like this is what actually makes mmos fun. Thank you Thor!

[@Lost_Hwasal]

Mr Pirate: Talks about Stribog Me: "Son of a bitch, im in!"

[@the_lost_one893]

I am def getting into this game cause of this video, thx Thor.

[@Ogogghe1]

Thor plays ashes of creation: 'well, lets start with squares...'

[@Supermansamdr]

former Eve player here, I've joined the guild and I'm super stoked about playing with you guys in October during alpha 2.

[@douglasnevins1598]

Nah, I love seeing someone finally get as excited as I am for this. Even if it flops, it'll be a fun ride. Def gonna he the person I watch play as I play when Alpha 2 drops

[@Izawwlgood]

I was in Stribog, and stayed in EVE because of the culture you cultivated. I would definitely seek out your guild in any game.

[@FrostyThundertrod]

Ashes has a stated server cap of 10k so if a guild had 3 or 4k members it would own that server. in eve with a server population of 250k you can have several 10k corps to balance each other out

[@TheBlackKnightmare]

hooooly shit THOR?!?!?! how the hell have i been watching your content on here for so long and not realize you are the SAME THOR from EVE. you and i have worked together quite closely during the pochven days my dude :O joining your discord now to send u a DM and catch up :D

[@arthusdawnbreaker]

Its not about quantity Its about Quality. If you have such a big guild that you don't know everyones name and who they are then thats not fun for anyone. The bigger the guild the easier it is for players of that guild to get lost and lose interest because they feel they aren't valued. Smaller guilds give all players a chance to be valued and to develop a community with meaningful relationships. Larger guilds just make you a number and then forget you even exist. No thanks! 300 is plenty.

[@williamdethland]

i wish i could join your guild. i am cant wait for Ashes of Creation to come out. its the most ambitious MMORPG i have seen and i have been following it since before they switch to the new unreal engine!

[@McLolzable]

I think they should be even smaller. No zerging please.

[@NexusProd1gy]

So Steven has said it's multiple servers per region. Also the 300 number is purposeful because they want Alliances to actual matter. Also they don't want just a small number of large guilds per server.

[@SinfulGFX]

My community guild group, which I've been a part of for over 10 years is massive, and most games we play, we have to make like 6+ guilds just to hold us all. So I agree with his points.

[@alexmhi123]

Damn, seems like a crazy and fun idea. Hopefully it works out as it sounds like it'd be fun to watch. Though i'd be worried for smaller groups just having the server taken over and leaving depending on what the size of the server's will be and being unable to do anything. After all if the entire server just turns into one guild pretty much what's the point of a spy part of it if there's no one to spy against.

[@ExTexanShorts]

LMFAO I do the same stuff in a few other games, its vertical integration combined with horizontal expansion, it is shockingly effective and fun to do

[@NoFailer]

Thor is just doing side quests at this point and mentions the ones he already completed casually in passing. "I ran a massive guild in a massive game", yeah man.

[@maryjoness2898]

i ll admit, i am being tempted by your guild. I watched todays live stream and was impressed by your skills as a raid leader. I ll never be anything more than a casual player, i m somewhat... older and ai don t have the reaction time I used to. My vision is not the best . but i do TRY.

[@FarmerGM1]

First MMORPG where I'm rolling a healer! Can't wait

[@TheOfficialPluto]

Few issues with this video 1. The servers only hold 8,000-10,000 people, concurrent players... at least that's their plan, so you are talking about having guilds bigger than the servers can even hold. Now you may only have a portion of that guild active, but it will keep growing and will quickly catch up to the limit. 2. It isn't one massive server; it's a bunch of servers. Although I understand how you'd be confused with server meshing and they called it one realm, if you watch the videos, they explain pretty clearly that it's not one server. 3. Even if it were one server, a guild of that size is very excessive; it'd be a very quick way to ruin the fun of other guilds as you either cannibalize them or simply take over the zones they are in. 4. It isn't a social sandbox game; they intentionally avoid being that they are making a game where players don't have to create their own content; they can but don't have to. As narc has put it in his recent video, it's not a social sandbox, it's a sand park. 5. Everyone has fun in their own way, but I feel like your expectations for this game are way way to high. I am very excited for ashes and have my own expectations, but this is a bit excessive.

[@mrcreed6874]

First sentence "I am incredible missinformed about Ashes of Creation." :D Jokes aside there are 2 misconceptions here: First: NORTH AMERICA WILL NOT HAVE ONE MEGA SERVER. There will be multiple, separate servers for each region each can register up to 50'000 accounts (at least thats planned for now) while 10'000 players can actively play on each server. So a 12'000 player mega guild is an ENTIRE server. The server meshing is not meant to create mega servers for all players of a region to be there, its meant to fix performance issues when a lot of players are in the same spot e.g. due to a PvP event. Second: ASHES WILL NOT BE A SANDBOX! This is important, because you mention you creating content for your gild members - that nice and all but Intrepid does not (fully) count on players doing that. This oviously doesn't mean that there is no room for a big guild alliance (and that is what you need to do, make lots of 300 player guilds, form them into an alliance and then go with that), you can 100% make things happen with such a huge guild alliance, but with the story system and dynamic world, Intrepid seems to aim at providing players with "enough" content even without players explicitely making it up themselves. Anyways, let me know which server you are getting on so I can avoid it, I dont want to get anywhere near a zerg mob like that. Cheers!

[@TygerBlueEyes]

this sounds amazing. I played Earth & Beyond and was in a mega guild and it was fun. To bad the studio shot self in the foot. I'll look for you guys in game -- maybe I'll join.

[@AaronDSmothers]

Welp, this is the first I'm hearing of the game and now I go to deep dive on it :)

[@ahmki52298]

Just can't wait to get hands on this game

[@Zarviya]

Ashes of Creation is awesome it's like being there watching world of warcraft be made it's going to be HUGE

[@TheMooseah]

Damn I'd love to be a part of this, but my skillset pretty much amounts to "Human Sandbag"...

[@voltus20]

Hey, you can always become a resource collector, or a crafter, or a propagan- *ehem* ... a comunications agent, or many other jobs that don't require combat skills.

[@TheMooseah]

@@voltus20 Ah yes, a "Public Relations Officer" haha

[@grimetone]

Then you'll fit right in. His approach here is quantity over quality and trying to bruteforce his way to domination.

[@volxd]

That's the beauty of mega-zerg guilds like this. The average skill level is already very low because individual talent means nothing when you're that big. Doesn't that sound so fun!

[@Arkreiner]

I have never experienced an in depth guild system like this. The only MMO RPGs I ever got super into were FF14 and ESO and never experienced anything like that. My only hope is that a guild this in depth does not negatively impact the small guilds that are friend-guilds who collectively have a much smaller play time.

[@MonkeyMaster88]

This works as the best promo for any game I've ever seen lol

[@GeirfreidGaming]

I kinda like the ESO guild style where you can be part of 5 guilds at once and each is upwards 300-400 in size each and if all members are part of all they can move things around a lot. I mean that's still only 1600 max. I just feel guilds of 12k plus may be a bit rough but could be interesting. Now say it's like ESO guilds but each guild could have 1600 members that's a better shot. Not to mention each guild does usually have a different aspect. In ESO I was in a pvp guild, pve guild, and 2 trade guilds and enjoyed it depending on what I wanted to do each day I could always find people. Plus guild members can sell to one another cheaper then they would to non guild members.

[@MrOkmis]

I think the ashes of creation team could add a "blackboard" where you can put out player-made "quests" which would be trust-based in regards of pay and objective. Could maybe lead to more player interaction which could go both ways. I would certainly enjoy that kind off adventurer feeling, going from guild to guild and just doing some jobs here and there

[@ZapatosVibes]

Can't for to get in the second weekend of testing!

[@JonahVeilGaming]

While I can appreciate the logistics and management style of this approach, this is also a very alienating way of playing the game to everyone who's not interested in it. But, I digress, I've always been the small group that fights against zergs, so I love their existence. My only concern with Ashes is it not giving us smaller more skilled groups, enough skill expression to win those few and far between outnumbered fights.

[@TheTrueVor]

I totally agree that spies are going to be a major issue throughout the MMO, or at least during the time that they didn't do something about it. We faced a similar incident in our ArcheAge company, between my teammates and I. We figured out that certain individuals had joined up in order try and figure out when and where our trade runs were going to be happening. We often got surrounded for a couple of weeks, leading us to the shocking conclusion of our examination. Realizing that those who we had assumed to be our comrades had been lying to us the entire time was painful. Only two members was spying, but that was enough to end the guild, unfortunately... However, after we uncovered the truth, those conflicts ended up strengthening the bonds with the true members of our guild. The guild was ended but our friendship became even stronger and remains solid to this day. But I also think that if the devs add something that prevent most of spies, that same addition will diminish the feeling of free will, freedom, etc...

[@PuissantPeacock]

I've seen a number of related comments so I'll just add my two-cents worth regarding large (aka mega) guilds. Please take this as just constructive feedback. Your comments show you probably don't have a lot of experience being successful in a large guild.They are extremely lucrative but, that's his point, you get out of it what you put into it. Anotherwords, if you have a "small" amount of people putting in their efforts, the rewards will always be "small". On the other hand, it takes a "large" population to generate large rewards. It's simple math and follows the laws of supply and demand. Get into a large guild and work your butt off. You'll get noticed and will reap the rewards. But not just in any game. WoW, ESO, and FFXIV guilds, forget it. AofC , EveOnline, games that have a robust pvp community (high risk vs rewards) and now you'll be having a rewarding time playing that game due to the high-functioning community they create. How do I know? I've experienced it in every game I've played. ;)

[@biome3]

I know everyones already said this kind of thing in the comments already. But the servers are planed to have a cap of 10k players, so a guild that's almost 15% of the server's population sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[@durftangster6994]

You are assuming this game is actually going to release, i admire your enthusiasm! *Goes to cry in the corner with the corpse of Pantheon Rise of the fallen at it*

[@noobcollector9146]

If only I knew that Thor ran an EVE Online Alliance.. Fellow player since 2009, I would have totally joined up and had some epic fun!

[@willthedingo]

Excited for this game. Gonna say though... I'm not sure how I feel about this other than feeling Old, but watching some test gameplay of it with the Bard (Anyone that played DAOC Bard will know what I mean) really makes me think of if you took World of Warcraft and Dark Age of Camelot and smooshed them together with D&D as a main flavour enhancer. Gonna be interesting to see how it goes.

[@oxspire7809]

This intrigues me greatly. Were can i learn more of this guild?

[@renwood999]

i always wanted to see a game doing what EVE Online as done for the past 21 years, if Ash made it, me to i 'am going to try it. till then, Eve it is. No other game come close, so they have a big mountain to climb.

[@RossBossly]

Max guild will 1200 maybe 1500 through the alliance system. Right now it's 300 max pop per guild and 4 can ally, they could make it 5 or something in future but 12000 won't be doable i suspect. Might have to spread out across multiple servers.

[@animeandothers1]

Looking forward to playing with the guild!

[@blktauna]

So many of my friends are mad excited for this and its still vapourware as far as I see. I do hope I'm wrong for those of you that are excited for it.

[@ludwiglarsson3352]

I think unlimited guild size would be very bad. If guild size is unlimited, then there is a risk that some people may create super big mega-guilds of thousands of people which becomes oppressive because those guilds would become so large and powerful that normal players do not stand a chance.

[@MrWwoww123]

@@ludwiglarsson3352 if theres unlimited size, the servers mega guild will essentially become a faction and be forced to join them.

[@melone8833]

That's why he's complaining about the guild size, because he knows he'll be one of if not the biggest guild, he's painting his argument in a way where it's bad for the game to have a max guild size of 300, but realistically he just wants the devs to change it so his community will be very powerful

[@xBloodXGusherx]

ARK Survival Evolved all over again. That game was stressful as hell but Ashes looks like it will be fun to be part of a large organization such as this.

[@viralshark]

In these types of games, the structured mega-guild/org/tribe types WILL rule the servers, as much as you may not like it. You can likely play solo/small group but it will be necessary to know how to law low and understand that you need only be able to defend yourself against similar sized groups, because the megas WILL wipe you if they decide they want to.

[@swarmsovereign5158]

I see and understand the woes of those saying "don't go bigger"- but honestly just changing a single digit could change A LOT. that 3 could be a 5, and now we'd be looking at 50 for a focus guild and 500 for an army guild. honestly wouldn't be bad.

[@chaosordeal294]

Every arm of your guild should operate a weird group, like the way the Secret Service is operated by the Dept of the Treasury.

[@johiahdoesstuff1614]

All of the people arguing against guild size really do not comprehend sandbox/empire MMOs at all, do they. Before the current sizes on corporations and alliances in Eve, people just used time consuming and headache inducing standing mechanics to form a coalition of smaller groups under one umbrella and it was just worse for everyone overall. If you want to encourage small guilds it's gonna have to be mechanical in the layout of the world and the distribution of resources, not any arbitrary limit. Also I am not surprised and very happy that Thor was involved with Stribog, that's literally perfect.

[@shadow-r3852]

"It may be ass, butt..." -Thor 2024

[@json_bourne3812]

As someone that's always been super keen on crafting, I'm very keen for AoC. Don't get me wrong I've loved playing combat in games, but I fully anticipate spending a lot of time relaxing but putting work into developing and creating sick gear at the highest level (assuming that's still going to be a doable way of getting top tier stuff)

[@mythicalgamer2124]

Hear me out, what if they instead of upping the cap of players, which likely ends like eve, with mega guilds taking over everything. They just added a alliance system? This would still allow you to create a "large- guild" by allowing your branches of government be its own seperate guilds, while allowing the smaller guilds that took the focused path to band together and threaten any mega groups that start "ruining" the game.(there is no ruining the game in a social sandbox, there is simply becomeing the villian). Or even just to create a few different player made content opportunity like, succeeding, betrayal, resistances, and other such drama.

[@DiMAAcadia]

There already is an alliance system. Four guilds can work together in an alliance.

[@DanyFive_]

I wanna be part of your guild, for sure you are a smart leader, and considering in this game you will need a lot of good decision making to stand up in a ONE REALM server, i think your idea is great. Hopefully you will allow your twitch and yt followers to join :D

[@Zyrachiel]

And just like that, any desire I had to play this game has evaporated.

[@BrotherFox2]

Where's "EvE online like" NA Megaserver claim coming from i watched AoC videos and not even once heard them announcing that

[@Lucky_Shooter]

Sand and Surf, Bro! This makes me want to play an mmo again. And be in this guild.

[@Lucas-ih4th]

Ministry of violence? You mean the ministry of peace my friend :P

[@N00Bella]

I am impressed that this kind of thing exists. To me the idea of a guild of this size in an MMO setting is bizzare. If it was more of a PvE game, where the world is what you're striving against - then yeah. The more the merrier, but I think in a "normal" MMO setting it's understandable why the guild size is so: people flock to meta. It's not even the case of making a casual guild for fun - when you can just make another character on the side, joing the meta guild like yours, do their part (which in my experience doesn't have to be much more than "I did stuff) - and then most probably, join end game content which is a breeze in such circumstances. I don't know what you like, but as far as I am concerned, I would love something akin to Dwarf Fortress MMO, where a server is the colony/kingdom (I really don't mean it as literally Dwarf Fortress, but it is a game with quite a... thriving life, so to speak) - and it can die off. I think it'd be quite the social thing, and I can see money being made around custom servers for, well, who else - youtubers, streamers, Big Personas of the social media (as in, they're the kings and queens, or gods, and can influence stuff themselves - why not make floor lava today?). Still, main point is: less of a mindless grind for resources with roleplaying realism and more of that realism with players being able to choose what they want while still having a lot of reasons to contribute all the while not having to be part of the social circus.

[@blanco2407]

I agree with people in the comments, I don’t really want to feel in another society online where I need to grind within a guild for currency. I already do that irl and don’t need the stress of that in my game.

[@robertprendes6090]

Ashes looks so damn good I'm all in on it to been for awhile I'm really excited about it can't wait to play

[@ibrokethefunny]

I love it. I am willing to play this game with organizations like yours in play. I am not a pvp person. For some reason I could never get the proficiencies to be good. Twitch based FPS I am decent but mmorpgs I am a horrid player. I prefer to be a craft/farmer player.

[@dhampir216]

Yeah your type of think is a game killer .. massive guilds are toxic and cocky ... but i dont see this game making any headway . It will be dead on arrival if it ever fully releases in 3 years tbh

[@MarkScherwin]

They dont want players like you, ruining their game and killing of a server. then you cry for server transfer because of a dead server.

[@miltosLaz]

There's gonna be alliances, so multiple clan working together

[@Verlisify]

"300 is too small" It seems like the right amount to prevent influencers from total domination. Get your 300 best instead of 10,000 drones that become impossible to contest

[@networknomad5600]

Dude has a 12000 player guild and the game isn’t even out yet… yikes, that level of insane sweaty organization immediately makes me not want to play Ashes.

[@daoshen]

sweats will sweat. not my thing either.

[@ReRolled69]

He is a youtuber asmond does the same thing

[@kronix2105jake]

From the way Thor is describing this guild setup, I'd say it's not actually a guide, it sounds more like 4 guilds working as an alliance. Which if they do keep the guild size small by EVE standards, should be exactly how you set it up. Have each "sub" guild focus on one aspect of the overall organisation. What Thor has essentially designed here isn't a guild, it's a small government. So you form these 4 guids, and setup shop in one region of the map.