Your Right Knee Helps Road Positioning

After a previous video of mine, where I explain that you can tell the centre of your lane with your left knee position, I continued to develop this idea and came to the conclusion you can judge positioning from your right knee also.
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[@Szlater]

Proprioception is how we track the position of our body parts, it’s the real sixth sense. It’s a very clever idea to train drivers to use proprioception when driving, very impressed with this.

[@wrightwoodwork]

That's the word I've being trying to remember

[@dermothoran1814]

​@@wrightwoodworkI have to admit, I've never heard of that. I guess it's true, every day is a school day! 🙂

[@georgejohnson1498]

Funny positioning story about a Morris 1000. Legal[isah] but fairly unusual even back in the day. I first drove a Minor 1000 [made 1959] in 1969 as a seven year old, sitting on my mother's lap, and obviously my feet did not reach the pedals! But propped up on my mothers lap, I could steer effective, and see the curb properly. It was not a curb of course, but grass at the edge of a three quarter mile long farm drive. Rough stone, and lots of dust in the summer. My mother told me to line up the Morris icon right in the middle of the bonnet with the. edge of the lane. Worked perfectly, and I never hurt the car. I also used to operate the gears [from the curb-side passenger seat] on that lane while my mother worked the clutch, throttle and steering. I first drove on my own as a twelve year old on a Massey Ferguson 35 [made 1958], and first drove a ten ton stock lorry and Volvo 145 [mnade 1970] at only fourteen, though obviously not on the public highway. Also aged fourteen I operated a Massey 400 combine harvester without any drama at all. I learned so much as a very young person about judging positioning. I fear for the modern driver learning on vehicles with such terrible restricted view through the ever smaller windscreens. The Volvo 145 had a glass house view! The Morris /Albion lorry [suffix `F reg] was easy because it has splendid mirrors and flat sides! The tractors had nothing but the bonnet and the rear axle wings in the way of vision. Halcyon days. Love your vids. Best wishes from George

[@ibs5080]

Greetings from the cable car above the Thames.Headed to Excel for a home show. The view from up here reminds me of my other homeland of Vancouver. Will watch this video later. Oh and the 56 mile drive to North Greenwich Peninsula was totally a non event. I have Ashley to thank for that. My Mum urged me yet again to sign up for the IAM Roadsmart course and test. One of these days.

[@R04drunner1]

Your Mum is a wise woman. You should listen to her more. 😊 Or perhaps you are afraid you will fail the advanced test? You won't. I found that investing in an IAM Roadsmart test has repaid me multiple times over my driving life, making it a far more enjoyable and rewarding experience.

[@ibs5080]

@@R04drunner1 Very encouraging words there and I'm well aware you and I have had many conversations on this topic. Yes you are right, it's the fear of failing the test that's put me off, though I appreciate your positive comments, no doubt formed from the way I comment. I might just listen to your advice and indeed my mum. In the meantime, I take every opportunity that I drive as a practice run and imagine Ashley analysing me from the passenger seat. This was very much the case today.

[@ibs5080]

@@R04drunner1 One other follow up comment. I have to admit that although I treat every drive as a practice run and an opportunity to improve, I have yet to try and put IPSGA into practice. I certainly try to drive to a methodical system but it's really just an enhanced version of MSM. I definitely need to start practicing IPSGA.

[@R04drunner1]

@@ibs5080 oh it's not just based on what you have written. I am a Christian and the Lord told me why you did not want to do the Advanced test (fear of failing, based on childhood experience). He told me that you would pass the Advanced Test. He's also pleased with the way you approach your driving, in a diligent and sensible fashion. That has saved you and others (your passengers and other road users) in the past, when you chose to be diligent and careful, not giving in to the temptation to be reckless and headstrong. He likes that about you. When I did my most recent Masters Advanced Test, the Lord spoke to me and told me that I would pass with His help. That came true and I rely upon His help every day of my life. Go for it! You will succeed and you will enjoy the experience.

[@aaronhussain3873]

Very useful video. I've been using the left knee technique since you posted the video. It really works - especially when I'm doing loads of miles on the motorway and A roads, so thank you, Ashley!

[@wilber3762]

I’ve seen some comments about the left knee technique after the previous video regarding the size of the vehicle you’re driving. I drive a hgv and I tried this out to see if it worked. Believe it or not it does work. I don’t know why it should work with a wider vehicle but it does. I’m off out on Monday to test out the right leg technique, just to see if it works. Look out everyone!

[@R0ssMM]

It might be a combination of width and height, so the greater width is compensated by the higher driving position

[@Pigglesgetsit]

I found the parking at the end very useful as after 40 years I’m still hit and miss with parking between white lines. It’s as though I forget how to steer because I guess I’m trying to steer into the space like a learner by looking over the end of the bonnet. Now I live in Germany I had to learn to judge everything from the right so your knee tip has been a eureka moment for me. Cheers

[@oldbaldguy6151]

I have a yellow cable tie on my windscreen wipers to indicate where my left tyre is, very handy for those small country roads with no kerb, has white lines and a ditch either side!

[@philipsmith9688]

It makes complete sense! The first time I saw the left knee video I thought ‘Hmm no my knee isn’t where the centre console is’ but I’ve tried it and it does help. To try this same technique with the right knee will feel strange but I’d always reverse into parking bays. I guess reversing and knowing where that line is would also be of benefit rather than adjusting mirrors.

[@laceandwhisky]

I use the right windscreen post and edge of bonnet and sight line to side of lines or roads works well for me after 50 years 😊

[@OutlawJackC]

I think my instructor taught me to look at the mirrors to see if the space is equal I was fortunate enough to pick things up easily 😇

[@smilerbob]

Interesting to see the right leg alignment being used for this as I always used the right edge of the steering wheel which always tends to be in line with my right leg 👍 Experienced or not, these tips are useful for everyone as I have seen drivers with many, many years under their belt struggle to judge a gap big enough for a bus to get through as they are unaware of where the edge of the car is in relation to the field of view

[@ambiva]

just need to a bit tolerance for the mirror😉

[@RicardoPetrazzi]

A very good way to assist those maybe struggling a little with their spacial perception.

[@MrWesternDuke]

Thanks Ashley, I will try this out when I am out and about tomorrow - every day is a school day!

[@TheFlyingBusman]

I find using my right knee frees up my hands so I can snack easier. 😁. Just kidding. It’s a good tip for those that struggle with road positioning (yes, you are out there and know who you are). I wish more people were viewing your uploads and learning from them. Still so many drivers out there that could do much better.

[@leeholden8658]

In my short time driving I’ve seen so many people crossing the line in the middle of the road. Either they’re not wanting to scrape the wheels on the curb,miss grids or pot holes or just oblivious to their positioning

[@philproffitt8363]

Or they are checking phone notifications...look for the eyes-down!!! 😁🤔

[@Wolfy11188]

I would say this is extremely useful for general road positioning but I wouldn't recommend using it to park precisely next to a curb on the right. You may find that you end up curbing your wheels as it isn't too precise. It will be accurate to within a few inches which is more than enough for most road positioning :) Good stuff!

[@busog97641]

*Again, yet again, another bit of excellent advice!!!*

[@ambiva]

Most of time I used right side of the steering wheel for controling right-side safety limit, easier to align visually, 2:24 exactly this "alignment" :)

[@SafferCA]

I don't recall where I learnt this technique, however, I live in Canada and frequently travel to the UK. This technique helps a lot, especially given that I switch from travelling on the right to travelling on the left.

[@waldolemmer]

Sometimes we just need to rely on our brains. When I learned to drive, I didn't consciously choose any reference points to estimate my lane positioning. My subconscious seemed to figure that out by itself, without me knowing anything about how it does it. Sometimes it helps to know what to focus on, though. When learning to park forward or make sharp turns, I saw substantial improvements when I focused more on my rear wheels. From there, my brain figured out the rest, and I'm now able to turn incredibly close to curbs at speed without touching them.

[@wheelNut5815]

1.59. A friend of mine who drove a dual steer road sweeper. He told me about the knee thing then when he swept roads. This was thirty or forty years ago, since then he has had a couple of new engines and a couple of brush rollers 😊

[@thomaselliot2257]

Great advice when you're tall and your legs are long but not sure when ,like me , my legs seem to disappear from under me when I sit down, and my peripheral vision can't even compensate 😂

[@Th3_Gael]

It's spatial awareness, like knowing where your hand is at with your eyes closed

[@thomaselliot2257]

@@Th3_Gael Mmmmm 🙂

[@ambiva]

Use right side of the steering wheel as reference point would make more sense, works in a lot of situation, including passing width-limiting bollards

[@soubirajbundhoo2734]

Marvellous video Ashley keep it up

[@Dr3Mc3Ninja]

The left knee as guidance for the speed bumps helped me a lot.

[@chillies4156]

Sadly camping today miss notifications. Nice video

[@brantnuttall]

very interesting. I'd never even considered this. thanks!

[@MK-1973]

What an interesting idea Ashely, I shall try it out - thank you! Long may you continue totally winging it. PS I like the view from the head cam (wouldn't recommend watching with a hangover though) and I really like the Golf's 'car in the blind spot' warning at 7:44

[@questioneryusef8264]

The LEGENDS of Road Safety. Ur the MAN.

[@jockforster]

Class 2 driver and use my left knee ✔️ look forward to seeing if right knee stops my occasional little wriggle 👏👍

[@davidbradley5555]

Been driving for over 50 years and I can assure you Ashley, that any new thoughts or ideas to help improvement are vet welcome.

[@user-ig1xo3om2x]

I've always done this "instinctively". Now all I have to do is learn how to explain it to other people!

[@iainmacrae6982]

Hi Ashley, I am a relatively new driver in Northern Ireland and recently I took a small trip across to England where I drove from Liverpool to Gloucester and back again in an old 106. I’m commenting because I was surprised that the driving standard seemed far lower than in N.I. Lane discipline was shocking, especially from lorries, speeding in urban areas was the norm but what really surprised me was how ‘rude’ everyone seems on the road. Changing lanes seemed far harder than normal due as no one seems to let you out/in and merging onto motorways was the same story. I would be quite curious if you yourself or anyone else here have driven over here and noticed anything similar between the two.

[@MartinMcCannTdF1987]

In my 25 years driving here in NI I would be of the opinion that we are much poorer on motorways than over in GB. The big issue is the fact merging is poor- because the default setting is for folk already on the motorway to automatically swing into the overtaking lane, most people don't learn to merge properly. This causes issues when cars in the inside lane can't move across and the driver trying to join hasn't the wit to deal with it properly. Also because apart from that section of the M5 and M3 from Sandyknowles on and the short bit between the Westlink and Black's Road, we really only have mostly 2 lane motorways so lack experience on multi-lane ones.

[@Bulelwakoko]

Thank you Ashley. Very useful 👌🏽

[@Being_Jeff]

Having driven lorries I've always used my door mirrors to see where I am on the road (I like to angle them so I can see the back wheels where they contact the road) after a while of checking that and then cross referencing what it looks like position wise ahead you get to know good spacial awareness.

[@qingyanxia1798]

Thank you so much for your helpful videos I have just passed my test this Monday with 3 driving faults.

[@ashley_neal]

Congratulations!

[@margaretnicol3423]

I tried the left leg thing. It worked! 😀

[@ziaahmadi8320]

Brilliant idea works well for me

[@questioneryusef8264]

Hey Ash ive tried the technique. It smackbang works. U solve one of my problem. Make one video on the safe distance on changing lanes when checking the centre mirror. Detail it please with the center mirror. I have not have a clue the distance when it is safe. They say middle mirror is the true reflection outside. But got no clue where is the safe part of it. All I know is if I see the lights and thats its it. NO Clue to where is danger.

[@redeemedronin]

This is so helpful, even being US-based. Do you have a playlist with more tips like this? I've been looking for stuff about points-of-reference for as long as I've been driving, and no one gives me a straight or consistent answer with footage.

[@MageZathara]

I use the white lines mostly for positioning and mirrors for narrower lanes/roads

[@philproffitt8363]

For me...the Carl Benz signature usually lines up nicely with the lane divide markings. Memory seat preserves the status quo (while German car audio f***s up Status Quo 😁)

[@kenbrown2808]

I've been paying attention to reference points, and found that in the things I frequently drive, the steering wheel also provides a good reference for the car's position in the lane. I was one of the ones that didn't like the knee as a reference, because it tended to draw my attention closer to the vehicle instead of further away. the steering wheel feels more like it's being compared with the road ahead. one thing I did as a teen, was on an EMPTY road, I'd deliberately hit the center markings or fog line with my tires. it was a good exercise in positioning awareness, though don't do this in traffic.

[@wrightwoodwork]

I can't say I do but I maybe do subconsciously. It's always head up and focus on where you want to be. and have imaginary lines I'm following. Go and watch a gymnast do a high beam routine they dont ever look down. Its head up as it gives perfect balance. Well when driving if you kerp your head up you wont wonder

[@robg521]

[Vision…. Don’t want to look down at my knee…] you don’t often see education on how to look and see when driving. I teach martial arts and when fighting it is important the train your eyes on where to look. If you look at their hands you don’t see the feet coming at you, if you look at their feet you don’t see their hands coming, stare in their eyes and you don’t see the way their body is moving, [the moment you focus on something you see nothing else] To solve this we train to stare centrally straight ahead, and absorb everything through peripheral vision, [you see nothing in particular but this allows you to see everything] As soon as you eyes pick up on something they move to focus on that movement or object to register what it is and what it’s doing, then immediately return to the central vision to scan for the next thing to look at. As the opponent punches the eyes focus on the fist, registers what it’s doing then While you are reacting and moving to defend the punch the eyes are already scanning again to look for anything else. I now find myself doing this when driving, I stare straight ahead scanning and searching for information, as they pick up on something [a road sign or pedestrian or hazard] they flick to focus on that object then return to their scanning mode searching for the next object. While the brain is thinking about the child at the edge of the road the eyes have already moved on now looking elsewhere so you can react accordingly. [you look to see the hazards but you must also look for the available solutions] The result is your eyes flick all over the place all of the time but they keep returning to that central neutral position, so you don’t get fixated on one thing and miss something else/

[@wrightwoodwork]

Love it using other techniques from something unrelated to help your driving and make relatable. I hate the mindset a lot of drivers have they can't know what's going on the the side just straight in front

[@RenAigu]

Does using your left knee not catch you out when switching to a wider car or even a car with a wider centre console? Anyway this doesn't totally solve the judging where your non-steering side is, but in general this sounds like a shortcut into "feeling the car as an extension of your body", accelerating that process.

[@raymondbenjamins5884]

Since you first started talking about it, I tried it several time (but with my right knee being in the middle, since I'm from the Netherlands), but it just doesn't seem to work for me. I don't know if I'm looking too far, not far enough or maybe my brain just perceives my knee differently, but whenever I line up in the lane using my outside mirrors, I perceive my right lane to left of the middle (so pretty much where I'm sitting). I'll have a go with what you talk about in this video as well, but honestly, I never have any trouble knowing exactly where my left wheels are anyway, so I doubt it'll help much.

[@johnschlesinger2009]

What are one's wing mirrors for, if not to know exactly where one's car is? I was looking at the centre/lane line in your offside mirror throughout this video.

[@Gazzxy]

3:55 I make that noise driving through queensbury when its busy.. but mainly because it actually is tight, and for some baffeling reason HGVs drive through it when there is better choices of routing. but the only reason I can drive through home without dieing of anxiety is exactly this trick. though never thought about my right leg, am more of a if my big behind/steering wheel fit, then the car "probably" will sort of person..... with the exception of small infrequent bouts of german car-itus (where I think the car is bigger than it is), ive goten through all gaps no issue so far.

[@shankly1985]

Hi Ashley, I noticed you were in 2nd gear for that forward bay parking. I was impressed by the such slow speed that you managed that. In the car I am using if I go slower than 8mph in second gear the car struggles with clutch up did you have the clutch down? Even after passing I still find myself learning everyday your videos have been a massive help in not only guiding me to pass but even after passing.

[@strut06]

Replying to your last point about still learning. I think this is the problem witht the standard of driving now. Drivers maybe feel that because they've got their license they don't need to be thinking and learning anymore. As a result, standards slip and instances of road rage, near misses and collisions go up. I've been driving for 11 years, and HGVs for 6 now, and still learn daily, even if it's just looking at others positioning in unfamiliar areas etc.

[@malccraven5276]

I think I mentioned this in the left knee video but I suspect this works by taking advantage of what would be an optical illusion for the brain. If you were to draw a straight line from your head through your knee, the point where it would meet the road surface is where you perceive your knee to be relative to the road. This fortunately on most cars is the centre of the car for the left knee and the edge of the car for the right knee (obviously reversed for left hand drive vehicles). I suspect it will still work on larger vehicles because you are usually proportionately higher and further from the edge/centre of the vehicle

[@SiCrewe]

Not entirely sure how useful this sort of stuff is. I recall, when I started driving, that I was acutely conscious of EVERYTHING I was doing. Nothing was "reflexiive" or "instinctive". I had to consciously remember to do everything I did. If somebody had told me that thinking about my knees would help me with my road-positioning, it'd just be one more thing I'd have to remember to think about when driving. I guess every student-driver is different, though, so if a student struggles with road-positioning, maybe this would be useful advice.

[@Gazzxy]

With my HGV practical training FIANLLY coming up (been on a SLOW poorly organised apprenticeship) Id love to know how this applies to artics

[@damienfenton3880]

Hi Askley, your system may work for a Golf sized car but would it work for a large SUV or even just a wide saloon?

[@ashley_neal]

It does 👍

[@trick700]

Top tip, thank you 😅

[@mattwoodford1820]

hmm, interesting. I use the right side of my steering wheel going to the edge of the line. Would you say that some of the zig-zagging for learners is also not focussing far enough down the road?

[@margaretnicol3423]

If I have something big coming towards me I tend to check how near the white line they are then take a quick look in my right mirror to check how far I am from the white line. Only takes a second to do.

[@Bullwinkle39]

I use a similar technique to this when towing a trailer on my bikes

[@999wilf999]

I'll admit it would take a lot more planning, but it would be interesting to see this demonstrated from outside the car, too. The ideal would probably to cut in 3rd person shots from above and behind the car. That would require a mate with a drone and a closed course, to make sure the flying was legal, so that could be just too much of a faff!

[@ianmason.]

Or just a 360º camera on a pole. Which Ash has done before for parking videos.

[@rayaanshaikh5830]

This is quite interesting but it doesn't work for all cars. It works in my wife's Golf MK8 as the pedals are in line with the body when sitting on the seat. In my Merc the accelerator is much more to the right so my body seems to be at a little bit of an angle

[@robertmaitland09]

I position myself where i used to reide my motorcycle, just to the left of the centre line.

[@kennethjessop6073]

Proprioception: our ability to know where our body is in space. So shouldn’t need to look to know where your knee is. By the way does this work, with and without man spreading?

[@TestGearJunkie.]

Interesting, although it's not going to work properly with me in my left-hooker car..! I use my right knee to keep in the centre of the lane, but I suppose I could use my left knee to judge where the kerb and parked vehicles are. I'll give it a try and let you know.

[@itsmyview2024]

I use this technique on speed bumps to straddle the high point and not have one up one down

[@rickconstant6106]

I'm 6' 3", and my right knee is usually resting against the door.

[@JACQCOW]

Hi, Is it possible to help me become a ADI? Because I don’t want to join the big company. Thanks

[@eddyrourke5514]

Slightly off topic but you are talking early in this video about taking your eyes off the road and this is one of the complaints people are making about the new enforced 20mph zones. Cars are apparently harder to keep at 20mph than at 30mph and people are finding themselves detracted by having to check their speed all the time. Although I think having access to several different types and models of car would be good, maybe an idea for a video?

[@mikewade777]

On the plus side congestion has reduced, appropriate braking distance is apparent as drivers are more focused with staying in the twenty.

[@hyperlovesyou]

am i the only one that just looks out my left window lol

[@moonshinepz]

Ashley's Biker side coming out, Knee-Down 😜😜

[@ianmason.]

Your right leg, I like. I _like_ your right leg. A lovely leg for the role. That's what I said when I saw you come in. I said, "A lovely leg for the role". I've got nothing against your right leg. The trouble is - neither have you.

[@Manu-Official]

I use my left mirror to judge my position according to the edge of the road - my car is wider than average.

[@jordanharvey2684]

What about my 3rd leg

[@briantilley3158]

This is only going to work if the driver adapts a relaxed sitting position as you do. Too many people are sat too close to the steering wheel and pedals when they drive. I doubt they can see their own legs.

[@ianmason.]

Keep reading and _don't look away_ . Where are your knees? If you have normal proprioception, and almost everybody does, you know exactly where they are, you don't need to look.

[@balanceis_key]

I'll admit this used to be me, but it still works. You don't look down when you're walking and they're not in your periphery either but you still know where they are. But even then don't think you'll ever be so close your thighs will go out of your periphery but again, shouldn't need to.

[@grahamnutt8958]

As you rightly say, Ashley; these techniques might not work for everybody. Some people have a natural spatial awareness whilst others don't. Transitioning between a 7.5 ton - long wheelbase - vehicle from a car never fased me but I know it would be an issue for many and, depending upon when someone passed their test, it was Legal to drive up to/including those with no additional test required. Stay safe out there.

[@kenbrown2808]

what really phased me in transitioning from the motorhome to the car last weekend was the brakes on the motorhome are about a half day's walk, and the car is barely a touch. but it's people who have never driven anything larger than a reasonably priced car, and get behind the wheel of a long wheel base vehicle who get themselves in trouble. and years ago, my dad upgraded a delivery truck from manual to power steering, and ran over 5 curbs before he adjusted to having the faster steering ratio.

[@grahamnutt8958]

​@@kenbrown2808👍

[@philproffitt8363]

Better be consistent with ya 'manspreading' right? 😁 I just find that a habit of occasional glance to both wing mirrors gives feedback and keeps your brain trained on how it is surveying and predicting your lane position ahead.

[@moustafaalbatran5304]

6:44 😂😂😂

[@Poetry4Peace]

useful Knee tip ™

[@Lizzard-t]

You don't look like a minor to me, you look about 40 years of age. If my 13 year old son grew a full beard .I would think he is on some pills from a online website. But great video Ashley!

[@brantnuttall]

0:30 thank heavens it's not where you other leg is.

[@paulhwbooth]

A minor miner?

[@Gr1mR34p3r85]

Is that a Christopher Ward?

[@frogsplorer]

Maybe Raymond Weil

[@RoyBigBoy]

What if I'm legless 😂

[@frankjager567]

OMG give me strenght

[@Bikeops2021]

Hmm... I'm not so sure about this one. Surely you have to get your positioning from reading the road, not how your legs are positioned! Be interesting to see in the comments if anyone uses this technique.

[@DavidNewmanDr]

Just shows how difficult it can be to steer a vehicle with too many wheels. Motorcycles tend to go where you are looking.

[@wrightwoodwork]

Every vehicle goes where you look

[@tony_w839]

Nerd alert; The ability of the brain to know where any part of the body is proprioception. An example is being able to touch your own nose with your eyes closed. I have a memory that this ability or lack of was used to test drivers who were believed to be too drunk to drive.

[@pajownik]

Leave poor drivers alone. They drive old Ford Fiesta for now, and soon nothing at all. And they supposed to be happy about it. 😅

[@Zkrizt]

Thinking you look younger because of a headcam is one thing but a minor? Not with that beard Ash.