1977 Camaro Z28 Part 84: HELP! Rear end alignment problems.

We went back to double-check the alignment of the rear end with the 4 link brackets, and nothing really makes any sense here.

[@carylamari6546]

I was on a job this morning and while I was hanging a ceiling fan I got an Idea for your car alignment problem. Ok let me see if I can explain myself. First of all I would get a set of frame rail extensions aftermarket, I installed a pair on my Camaro and the beauty of it is it connects from the front leaf spring bolt holes to the rear of the front sub frame. Using the tram guage you can then measure the front geometry as it relates to the leaf spring perch. then using the tram guage you can align the rear differential to the complet subframe by cross measuring using the tram guage differential perch to front subframe. it does several things it will align the body with the subframe and square everything up. I hope this helps you Erik you have come so far just keep positive I am confident this is just a bump in the road!

[@asicerik]

Wow Cary, you are awesome. So much good stuff. I will upload another video today, but I think we have it square now. The video shows what we did. I am shipping the rear end off today. I am pretty sure if anything is off at this point, we can fix it with adjustable lower arms (which I will need to get somehow). Thanks buddy! You are the best.

[@idaho2ndgens240]

Hey, just came onto your site and watched this first video. Not sure about 77 Camaro's but for 70-72 Camaros Chevrolet put out a drawing that might help get the front subframe located properly relative to the rear subframe locator pin holes. These holes were used in the factory on their jigs. The drawing has dimensions from the rear alignment pins to the front subframe mounting bolts. Not sure if you still have the original rear subframe members or not. There is also a drawing put out by Chevrolet that provides the front subframe dimensions to help get it aligned with the centerline of the vehicle. The centerline of the car can be found using the pinchweld under the rockers which is 49 1/2". Centerline of the front subframe to centerline of the front subframe rear body mount is 16 3/4" Once the front subframe is in correctly you can use it as a reference to set the rear end distance correctly. The wheelbase distance from the front hub to the rear hub centerline is 108. If you need these drawings I can scan and email them to you.

[@asicerik]

Thanks! Yeah, that would be great. I will send you a PM with my email address. I have one of those two drawings that Cary Lamari sent me. Not sure if it matches either of the two you are talking about.

[@asicerik]

Your channel page does not have a message button. Can you send me a PM here?

[@drumman190]

Cool video .

[@asicerik]

:)

[@blah9664]

cant wait until you get it back ..im anxious like you are to see how she lines up

[@asicerik]

Thanks James. Maybe in the meantime we can get the subframe lined up. If I look up how to do it, I'll bet it says "Measure from the rear axle..." :)

[@blah9664]

asicerik​ yea you're probably right. I can't give any input like these other experienced guys..all I can do is wish you the best.

[@bobcraighead5080]

Sheet metal dimensions or locations are never considered critical. One thing that is important is to be sure the rear end keeps the same alignment with the floorpan. 2 " either side of ride height. Jounce vs rebound. The front subframe needs to triangulated with the rear of the car. Find a PLP point on each of the front frame rails and measure diagionally as far rearward as possible. Once the front subframe is triangulated the use the same technique to the axle housing..... see where that leads you.

[@asicerik]

Thanks Bob. What do you mean alignment with the floorpan? Also, what is a PLP point?

[@asicerik]

Yeah, we did check that. The two are the same length. Thanks Jeremy.

[@UCanDoIt2Mike]

Its' called... CaddyWompus! Happens anytime you try to stick a Ford product on a Chevy. Look good to me. You basically have proven that the axle is parallel to the driveline and the wheels where you want them in the wheelhouse. Stick a fork in it... it's done. Too bad you could find a local welder to button that up. Great job Eric!

[@asicerik]

Caddywompus! I love that word. Well played sir! Hahah. Thanks a lot.

[@AngeloC49]

LOL!!!!! 😂😂

[@MrMegaFredZeppelin]

I wish I could help but I don't know a Damn thing about this stuff :-( I wish you all the best with it :-) ROCK ON!!!!!!!

[@asicerik]

Rock on bro! Thanks

[@MrMegaFredZeppelin]

asicerik Your welcome :-) ROCK ON!!!!!!!

[@DoubleRRestorations]

I think you guys did everything you could, I have looked at the original setup on mine and wondered how much error it has.

[@asicerik]

Thanks Russ. I think we are good. But oh boy, it is tight in there!

[@kevinsedo6869]

the 77 trans am in my icon i bought new its never been in an accident before i pulled the floor,firewall,rear torque boxes out of it i got 8 plumb bobs leveled the body frt to back and side to side hung the plumb bobs from suspension mounting points down each side of the car after a day of tedious measuring i discovered why the rear wheels never seemed to b centered in the openings ....the right side of the car was 1/4 in ahead of the left side ..when i put it back together i moved the right side back 1/8 and the left side ahead 1/8 to get all the mounting points trued up...good luck!!!!!

[@asicerik]

Yeah, it seems as though none of these cars were straight. As long as I am not "crabbing" down the road, I am ok with it. Thanks !

[@bobcraighead5080]

Principal locator point. Floorpan is the welded floor under the seats

[@asicerik]

Right, but you said "be sure the rear end keeps the same alignment with the floorpan" What on the floorpan am I checking? The rear end moves on an arc up and down due to the control arms, are you saying no twist up and down on one side of the rear end?

[@Mr_getinthere]

hey bud just a suggestion maybe you should get adjustable controls all four corners .i think that will help free up the rearend if u off alittle because in a gbody we put a 8.8 Ford rear end and the geometry is different from gbody but we use just adjustable control arms all four corners to free up the rearend and in put rearend where it need to because its free nothing binding up ..don't know this will help maybe can help with some ideas good luck

[@asicerik]

That is a good idea. I am going to call RIdeTech today and see if they have adjustable lowers. That solves all these problems I think. Thanks!

[@chrismansker8870]

the car really is looking good erik these issues are a bit of a conundrum for sure but I think its good

[@asicerik]

Thanks Chris. I think it is making good progress. Just have to get over these issues. I think we are in the clear now.

[@chrismansker8870]

well I hope for your sake. it seems you have my luck with the parts. I had to send one of the tubular a arms back for my car one end was welded on crooked so it would not mount up to the sub frame. the brakes are great so far. the exhaust was bent funky it just goes on and on with little issues.

[@asicerik]

Oh man, that sucks! I am headed over to your channel to start the series. Yay, another project to watch!

[@chrismansker8870]

lol I have not been able to get much done lately with my mom in the hospital sense july 2nd been taking care of her property and getting it ready for her to come home but hope I can get back to it soon want to get it done this year so she can see it done

[@asicerik]

Well, you got a lot done in a short amount of time (compared to me at least!). I hope your mom is doing better.

[@kevinbrown3150]

Really wish I had an answer for you but I don't. My guess is that you're good to go. Keep us posted on the outcome. Good luck buddy.

[@asicerik]

Thanks Kevin. I appreciate the thought!

[@DriveShaftDrew]

send it off your good as 1 wild camaross said

[@AngeloC49]

You'll never get a Camaro perfect!!! Worst case it bothers him that much and God forbid it's off because the cat itself is a little twisted you can get adjustable lower bars and really fine tune it 👍🏻👍🏻😉😉🇨🇦🇨🇦

[@AngeloC49]

Car not cat 😂😂😂😂

[@asicerik]

Yeah, I was wondering if I could get those from RideTech. I will call them tomorrow and ask about that.

[@asicerik]

Thanks Drew. I will never know for sure until I take the car in for alignment I guess.

[@carolinamanjr1385]

Twist a cat sounds like good entertainment when the cat gets even

[@bobcraighead5080]

Trying to give you some points to measure from. Also the longer the diagonal measurements the more accurate the positioning. Square the subframe to the tub then measure back from the frame horms to triangate the position of the axle.

[@asicerik]

Got it, thanks.

[@carolinamanjr1385]

Erik I bet it's fine

[@asicerik]

Thanks Cliff.

[@akpd1]

I should of viewed your next video before my comments, looks like most had the same thoughts I had.

[@asicerik]

You missed the perfect opportunity! You could haves said "Ah! I see you followed all of my advice" :) Thanks for the suggestions, it is just when I blast a video everyday, I sometimes don't get a chance to get feedback in time from all my viewers.

[@carylamari6546]

I just remembered one way to check the travel of the vehicle, make a pipe measuring rod go from the from center line of the hub on the front wheels to the center line of the rear wheel hub, see if they are close. that at least will give you some relief as to the 3/8-1/2 inch difference between the two sides of the car. Pete on swrnc made one of those measuring rods on a video. I can see how that would really be helpful here!

[@asicerik]

That assumes the front end is on straight, which it may or may not be. I think if I can get adjustable lowers, we won't need to worry about it. I am also going to try to see if I can move the passenger side front spring perch back a little. Thanks Cary!

[@MrMach1]

You using ajustable lower control arms? Hang it from your coilovers like 1Wild CamaroSS said then hook up your upper and lower control arms and see where your sitting. Worst case is you might have to go with ajustable lower control arms also. I don't think any of the older car were very square lol. Good luck.

[@asicerik]

The kit did not come with adjustable lowers. That would solve all my problems I think.

[@MrMach1]

It will be hard to really see what's going on until you bolt everything up. Just remember not to tightin anything until you have everything together.

[@jefflindsey9589]

For sale 1972 camaro! Damn..... Lol just kidding, hope you get it..

[@asicerik]

Haha :) Thanks Jeff. Gotta keep it light around here! I was too damn morose in this video!

[@bobcraighead5080]

All of the under body and subframe components have holes on the bottom side where they are located on the fixtures when they are welded.

[@asicerik]

Ok, I will look around under there and see what I can find. Thanks

[@txsviking]

I knew it wouldn't let you sleep. There is a gauge frame guys use to measure various points for reference. I can't remember what its called :-/

[@asicerik]

Yeah, Cary pointed that out. It is called a tram gauge. He linked the My Friend Pete video that shows how to make one.

[@txsviking]

Yes! that's it. :-)

[@dwaynewhitaker7577]

i agree with 1wildcamaro bolt up your coils and see of they got in no problem if so bam you got it i think you will have plenty of adjustability in the end if you need it

[@AngeloC49]

👍🏻👍🏻

[@broken1965]

may have been in a accident at one time. was it dog legged at all when you started

[@asicerik]

Could not tell you. The car has not been driven since I have owned it. There is no damage anywhere I can see on the car except where that rocker was mangled. The rest of the car had no prior welding, just bondo/rust stuff.

[@broken1965]

thats when a mockup drive train would be nice

[@asicerik]

Yeah. I really wish I had the driveline. I would get it now, but the warranty will expire before I ever get the car on the road. Getting a mockup driveline is a pain where I live. There are no junkyards within 100 miles of here I think.

[@akpd1]

Should be good. I would of aligned sub-frame in car, establish center line of car, then locate right angle for rear axle location... (plumb-bob to marks drawn on floor).

[@asicerik]

Thanks, good advice. We actually attempted to do all of that the next day, as you saw in the next video :)

[@samsgarage2856]

Wish I could help. From the comments, it looks like there is room for error. Makes me think I should do some measuring before removing my rear end.

[@asicerik]

Yeah, I think that would probably be a good idea.

[@bobcraighead5080]

What I meant by alignment was vertical alignment as the axle goes thru jounce and rebound.

[@asicerik]

Ah. I checked that (approximately) today. It did not look like it moved side-to-side as it moved up and down. I could check it with a straight edge though.

[@bobcraighead5080]

Remember the front spring hangers are now a more important piviot point

[@asicerik]

Yup. That is why I am basing everything on those lower control bars. If the front hangars are correct (or can be made so) everything else should fall into place. Thanks for all your comments and replies Bob. I do really appreciate it.

[@moparman7367]

All i can add is never measure off panels , Chassis should be used as reference points. :)

[@asicerik]

Yeah, I was just following directions ;(

[@AngeloC49]

Brother you need to stop !!!! With the lower control bars are in their place put the coil overs on if they go in without any problems your good!!! There is no Camaro that will be perfect side to side trust me 20 + cars I know that for a fact 😉👍🏻👍🏻🇨🇦🇨🇦 send it off

[@asicerik]

Yeah, that is my thinking. Thanks!

[@AngeloC49]

+asicerik your good brother 👍🏻👍🏻😉🇨🇦🇨🇦

[@strokedfirebirdable]

Totally agree with you. No 2 are alike or perfect. What kinda horse power are you putting under the hood Erik? That's a pretty impressive setup. Better than mine.

[@asicerik]

Thanks Dave. It is built for up to 600HP (based on the axles). I will probably keep it under 500, maybe a hair over that. I am thinking of an LS3, and those are 430HP straight outta the box

[@MrFireman164]

Send this vid to the people at moser , you paid them a shit ton of money for this rear end the least they can do is watch your vid and give you a piece of mind on what you have done , and advice on if it looks right or not .

[@asicerik]

I am going to call RideTech in the AM and see what they say. I doubt there is anything wrong with the Moser part, unless the axle tubes are bent or something. Thanks Roger

[@carylamari6546]

Erik do you belong to the garage gang Facebook page? If you do I could send you a factory spec of the 2nd gen Camaro frame? It has dimensions/measurements from holes for the original specs, might be of some value to you who knows. It is called Shop Talk if you have a Facebook page I can invite you in? its a great way to talk to the guys and they are also posting some cool stuff there.

[@asicerik]

There are a lot of "Shop Talks" out there. My FB ID is "asicerik" if you can find me, then you can invite me that way.

[@glennmiller9031]

Perpendicular to center line of car. In the end The front and rear wheels must be equal center to center or the car will dogtrack going down the road.. I'm no expert or mechanic. I wish you good luckand will keep my fingers crossed.

[@asicerik]

Yeah, I was also thinking about the centerline. That was just hard to do with all the jack stands and stuff under the car. If the rockers are any indication, then we are good because we are perpendicular to that. Thanks Glenn!

[@carylamari6546]

OK looked back on Petes old videos and the tool is called a Tram Guage and he made it to see how square the car is, it should also help you see how square your front and rear wheels are Check this out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZ3Vd6xqmMR4has

[@asicerik]

Very cool. Thanks for finding that. I will see about making one of those.

[@carylamari6546]

Look there are a couple asicerik on facebook, one says asicerik drummer? It would be easier if youjust friended me, Cary Lamari!

[@asicerik]

drummer, that's me. I sent you a friend request.