Ask Augustin 27 - Posture Advice

I received a lot of questions about posture and playing without a shoulder rest. Finding a healthy and relaxed posture is essential in order to reduce the strain on our bodies, especially the neck, shoulders and back. It is something we should pay attention to already while we are doing well, not wait until there is an injury and then suddenly try to change it! It takes a lot of time to gradually change posture habits.
It is fine to tense up occasionally when playing certain things, the key is to be able to relax again the next moment, and for this, good posture is essential.
Every violinist is built differently and has to find his/her own posture, but there are some general things to aim for: to avoid strain on the neck, it's good to try to avoid extreme positions for the head (not all the way to the side or bent down, all the time). Even better, to be able to move the head and change its position at least slightly while playing, can reduce the strain on the neck and the neck muscles by a lot.
The violin should ideally be straight, not pointing down or up - even if it can feel good to the player to bend down (I did this a lot...) or to hold the violin up high, which looks very dramatic (but is not good for the sound)! This is because efficient sound production is all about using the natural weight of the bow, and for this the violin strings should be an even surface for the bow, if you point the violin down or up, it affects this gravity- and also the direction in which the sound travels from the violin.
I get asked a lot about shoulder rests, or my lack of a shoulder rest. I use a cushion under my shirt, which feels great to me, but it essentially feels like playing without a shoulder rest, while keeping the violin at a better angle and reducing the strain on my neck. If you are used to playing with a shoulder rest and have tension issues, you might want to experiment with the type of shoulder rest, since there is such a huge variation in size, shape, and quality available and different ones may be good for different players. There are also lots of different chinrests, including some that are very tall, or in the middle of the violin, which can be better for people with long necks.

[@benjmp]

Amazes me - and I am filled with gratitude - that a world class violinist would so generously share his wisdom and guidance like this. Much thanks Augustin!!

[@jcchrome5110]

Yes, it amazes me, too, the generosity of spirit. ♡

[@picksalot1]

Augustin is as articulate speaking about music and how to play the violin, as he is actually playing the violin. Multitalented. Thanks

[@davidbento7441]

Thank you so much Augustin. Your series has turned out to be the best part of this whole pandemic isolation 🙏🙏🙏

[@gregshub6703]

Dear Augustine, great advice. , would you please tell where to buy cushine similar to yours?

[@lcomfort8683]

There are foam shoulder rests that attach to violin with rubber bands. Cheap, comfortable, adjustable, doesn't mar finish.

[@sarahdubois2386]

thank you so much- not only are you the greatest living violinist but you're a fabulous teacher.

[@cigarnationwarriors3981]

I’ve struggled with shoulder rests - I’m 74 years old - and I’ve never felt “freedom” with my Left shoulder. I’m now slowly transitioning to playing without a shoulder rest. Suddenly my left shoulder is more relaxed and free. However, downshifting presents a problem. Thank you for being with us through these troubling times. William🎻😷

[@luizabrito1522]

Had the sabe problem. Solving it with chin off (baroque) technique

[@musicfirst5020]

@@luizabrito1522 Tried the same thing. I like it, I like the sound too.

[@adrianfernandez894]

6:28 “when you start when you’re 4 or 5 years old” When you started playing violin at 13 and didn’t get lessons until you were 16.... but now you’re a violin Performance Major! 😅

[@Ishsa]

People underestimate the value of good practice and hard work. Good luck!

[@straburg7661]

I started at 13 too, and at 16 I was able to play Mozart 3 and at 17, I'm practicing the first movement of Mozart's 4. My orchestra director wants me to play Bruch 1 but I'm kinda scared about it. I hope to be able to play as a soloist (at least from time to time) when I grow up. Wish me luck!

[@ketzalxochitlvictoria4639]

Agustín Figueroa you can do it! I have a very similar experience. I started at thirteen, started lessons at 16 and I played Bruch for my college auditions. I also played Mozart 3 for my college auditions 👌

[@NickBatinaComposer]

@@straburg7661 Yoo, you should check out Saint-Saens VC #1! It's really cool, puts you in really intense technique-y moments for short periods, and is entirely attaca and only 18 min long!

[@straburg7661]

@@ketzalxochitlvictoria4639 @Nick Batina thanks for the words! I hope to be able to make a music career, I'm sure it's my passion. And I'll give the Saint-Säens 1 a go, I think I've heard it before. Thank you thank you

[@ViolinHobby]

Thank you very much Doctor Augustin for your advice on keeping our neck and spine in good alignment; which is so important to our health. You have a terrific posture; which is not only conducive to great violin playing, but also to looking fabulous :-)

[@wendyshell8679]

I agree, Violin Hobby! The neck & spine are so important. I tried playing without a shoulder rest for a period off time, and ouch! It caught up with me. I’m glad I learned that lesson and am recovering from a pretty frustrating episode of neck and arm pain. Augustin looks very comfortable with the violin!❤️

[@galenogarbeferreira4616]

I had the opportunity to see your concert at Sala São Paulo and it was outstanding. Thanks a lot for your valuable lectures in KZbin. I hope to see your performances again soon.

[@ivyssauro123]

Quando o foi o concerto dele na sala São paulo?

[@tuliobabikian]

@@ivyssauro123 teve um com o Augustin no começo de 2019 (acho que no mês de março). A OSESP chegou a postar o vídeo também: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nqqUo2ZujKdgotk

[@erikluisengelmann]

Excellent advice Augustin, thank you so much.

[@ramonlopeznote]

Thanks Augustin! Love your tutorials

[@carloalberto1108]

Thank you very much for the truly clear and certainly fruitful advice.

[@mariokoification]

Großartig, vielen Dank Augustin!

[@thesoundwriter5591]

So important video! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge

[@a13b9]

Thank you for clarifying this overlooked part of playing the violin....excellent information!

[@zeniktorres4320]

Well covered. As an older adult starter I can appreciate that holding violin is a major challenge in itself. It took me along time to find a satisfying combination of shoulder rest, chin rest, violin angle, violin height. As you said, every persons body shape is different.

[@aureliedorzee]

Thank you Augustin , your way to play and explain the violin and all his mysteries is precious ,it's clear helpfull sensitive generous musical ..... thank you thank you thank you

[@rosanatalibarretoferreira1527]

Thank you, Maestro!

[@rfhundley]

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom

[@zulthum260]

este hombre es de lo mejor que hay en el mundo de la música clásica

[@peterbaxter8151]

Thank you Augustin.

[@MrViolinPeter]

perfect explanation - thank you so much!

[@seanhsien1043]

Another great video, thank you so much Augustin. One thing to note about standing posture and weight on one or both legs: it is always recommended to put equal weight on both legs. Weight on one leg for a short time is fine, but not for a long period of time. I remember one of my teachers told me he used to practice for hours with the weight on his left leg, and as a result, his left leg became shorter than his right.

[@pandoraefretum]

sounds like very balanced advice.... gracias

[@Victiolin]

Thank you so much for the advice about the violin slipping out of hand when shifting. I thought it impossible to play without shoulder rest because of that but it is all about practice, learning to hold it with the weight of the head

[@visarkuci]

Very helpful advice, thank you very much.🙏

[@cellostrings2522]

KUN rest has been the best for me by far. Thank you for your advice

[@wendyshell8679]

Mine has to be in just the right spot, or I have pain! I’ve tried using no shoulder rest, and even the cushion type. I don’t have a real long neck, and this whole issue has been a continuing issue, for me.❤️

[@littlesquareroot2]

Great advice, thank you so much for sharing! I play without a shoulder rest for almost a year now (by that time I was 16 and played 10 years with a shoulder rest). For me switching was pretty easy😀 Ach ja: Ich hoffe, Du bist in diesen skurrilen Zeiten gesund und Dir geht es gut! Liebe Grüße aus Deutschland!

[@NWolf-gd5bj]

Thank you so much for your videos. I find it very helpful :)

[@steveblake5278]

So kind of your to share so much of your own experience, it’s helping me and so many others, it’s almost like we have a new and amazing teacher during this quarantine time! Just a couple more questions if you’d have time to answer: what do you do when you’re so exhausted with a piece but you still have to perform it? This is happening to me preparing for an audition... Also I can’t find the video when you talked about e string whistles especially happens to me in Chaconne or fast Legato 16th notes line, could you talk about it a bit? Thanks so much!

[@alwt1991]

thanks Augustin!

[@thierryperrenoud1460]

So great..

[@jcchrome5110]

This is helpful for me as a beginner, to understand my struggles with fitting chin and shoulder rests, pains caused from poor posture, and working to not grip the neck too much for fear of it slipping. Thank you for all your videos, which mostly I listen to in the background of my day (I don't understand enough yet to put most of it to practice, but I like listening to you.)--however this is one I think I'll return to a number of times as I learn what works best for me.

[@kayliapalatnikova5454]

From the first lesson I teach the beginners to control the posture. The right shoulder rest and a chinrest plays a critical role in this sense. How to find the right shoulder rest and the chinrest? Or shouldn't the beginner use a shoulder rest at all? The role of the shoulder rest is to fill in the space between the violin and chest bone, and a student has to learn to find this place. For this, he/she should pick up the violin the way so it will automatically take a right position on the shoulder. For this, pick up the violin by the body of the violin, not by the neck, feeling the heel of the neck with the base of the first finger, placing four fingers straight on the upper deck and the thumb across the low deck. To find the right position on the shoulder, you should feel that your head and the neck will stay on natural position, with no tension as if without holding a violin. The posture of the head with and without holding the violin should be absolutely with no difference. Very important to ask somebody to check position of your head from the back and the side; it should stay straight, with no tilting to any direction. The second step is to fill in the space between the violin and the breastbone and to find the right height of the chinrest. It needs a lot of efforts and patience to make a right choice, but doing the first step, you save a lot time and efforts.

[@tomokomills]

Sooo true abt the right shoulder rest! I only buy KUNS ❤

[@fDworked]

14 years ago I play without shoulder rest and it was fine. Then I stop learning violin. Recently I start again, but now I feel it's quite difficult without shoulder rest, my left hand feel not too free because I have to hold the weight of the violin too. But I watch people playing Baroque violin without shoulder rest and they have great playing it..

[@suzukistringschoolofguelph5113]

This is very helpful, Augustin. Thank you so much for all your masterclass videos! Could you talk about the position of your left hand? Is the base of your 1st finger ever in contact with the neck of the violin?

[@maiteflores7876]

Thank you!!!😘👏👏

[@nazarrutkovskyy9925]

Thank you! I really need to change, its pain is killing me..

[@niceguy8935]

Thank you!!! I've been trying to quit using the shoulderest because of pain and tension. This really helped a lot!!

[@Twitchte]

I'm confused, is using the shoulder rest better or worse than without?

[@AugustinHadelichViolin]

@@Twitchte not necessarily better or worse - it depends on the player and the shoulder rest. If you are comfortable playing with a shoulder rest, there is no reason not to use it. But if it is causing pain and tension, then trying to play without, or trying a different type of shoulder rest, can be a good idea.

[@wendyshell8679]

My luthier that helped me, took about an 1/8 inch or so out of the overall height of my chin rest, and I’m having much less tension, now if I can just stop squeezing when I move my fingers quickly! I tried not using a shoulder rest for a while, but that was too painful, in the long run.❤️

[@mauriziomaltese4678]

Grazie 🙏

[@gregshub6703]

Dear Augustine, you are a very special violinist, great talent. Your sound and the way you listen to yourself are wonderful. Where do you buy cushine similar to one you are using? Thank you for an answer.

[@Tadeo-ud7ty]

Thankssss

[@AndriesBaele]

I'm enjoying your video's a lot and they help me through this period of quarantaine. In another video you talk about a daily habit of studying 2 hours a day. Well, it might be interesting to see what (and how) you would play if you hold your violin on your right shoulder and bow with your left hand if you had two hours to prepare... :°)

[@BenjiOrthopedic]

Listen to what he says, people! He is one of the greatest fiddlers of our times!

[@jenniferrowin8886]

I had a dream about your posture this morning. I had to come find you, and here you are speaking about posture. Thank you.

[@musicfirst5020]

I am 6 foot 5 and I play without a shoulder rest (well, if I do say so). I have a long neck, as well. I think playing without a shoulder rest feels more organic and like the violin is part of you. If you do need support, try a pad or high chin rest first. If it doesn't work go with the shoulder rest. Some people play WAY too high of a shoulder rest, even when they don't have really long neck. I think you lose sound with a too high shoulder rest, and it gets a little thin. Janine Jansen is an example.

[@hugoandore9971]

I miss this videos.

[@kayliapalatnikova5454]

I teach the beginners how to find and control posture starting from the first lesson and on. In this sense, finding a right shoulder rest and a chinrest plays a critical role. How to find the right shoulder rest and the chinrest? Should the beginner use a shoulder rest at all? It takes a lot of efforts and patience to make a right choice. The main role of the shoulder rest is to fill in the space between violin and the chest bone. For this and just to begin with, I use a shoulder rest. The right posture includes adjustment/interaction between the angle of the violin against the body and around its axis with the head, the neck and the whole body. At this point, it is very important first to teach the student how properly to pick up the violin. Violin should be taken by the body, not by the neck, burying it deep in the base between the thumb and the first finger, close to the heel of the neck, placing straight four fingers on the top deck along the fingerboard, and stretching the thumb across the back deck to secure the grip. How to check if the violin “found” the right place on the shoulder? The answer is that the head and the neck should remain in natural posture, relaxed as if without holding the violin. At this point, it is very important to ask somebody to check the position of the head from the back and the side; it should stay straight, with no tilting to any direction. The second step is to find the right height and shape of the chinrest. It needs a lot of efforts and patience to make a right choice but doing this you save a lot of time and efforts. There is an opinion that the shoulder rest limits the movements of the violin. I don’t think so. With the proper chinrest and shoulder rest violin sits free on the shoulder, which makes it movable up and downward, as well as aside, without using too much pressure by the chine when shifting down the fingerboard. However, there is one important point, which makes shoulder rest users be aware of - this is intonation. The shoulder rest takes the main role of holding the violin, making the left hand kind of losing the sense of holding the violin and controlling shifting. Meanwhile, when violin rests straight on the shoulder, the left hand becomes more attached to the violin; the hand “feels” the body and weight of the violin and better controls shifting.

[@tomokomills]

Cant believe these are all free!???? 🤯🤯🤯

[@steveblake5278]

Do you have any advice on how to analyze a piece of music that’s more harmonically abstract, not the classical works, but perhaps French repertoire and even contemporary works? Thanks!!!

[@pyrymikkola3719]

Hi, The idea is to get the bottom cashier give You a bundle for the purpose in order to play.

[@moondog50002000]

2nd most uncomfortable instrument I have ever played Number 1 is sitar , but , I HAVE had 7 surgeries from practicing guitar ( both hands and elbows ) so arthritis is a thing these days

[@TheNeilsolaris]

I'd like to see and hear more about your cushion. Did you buy it, or create it yourself?

[@davifreitas1373]

Thank you for the advices, I really appreciate your playing. My violin teacher says my neck is very long, and I struggled a lot to find a tall shoulder rest so the violin is in a good height, do you think it would be worth trying to play without the shoulder rest? I've been playing violin for 2 years, I'm a begginer yet, but I want to try different ways so I find my own

[@concertmasterntl]

Use a bonmusica shoulder rest and bend it to fit your body, and to fill the rest of the space, use an extra high chinrest.

[@galepeach1656]

Thank you! How do you hold your shoulder pad in place?

[@N_z41]

Would it be possible to do a video about thumb / left hand tension. I can't seem to get rid of it, especially playing fast passages using a lot of the 4th finger. I think i'm getting pain / too much tension in the adductor pollicis muscle. Any advice would be much appreciated.

[@jcchrome5110]

This would be very helpful, too.

[@wendyshell8679]

Julia Bushkova teaches the David Millstein approach to 4th finger woes, on her KZbin channel. It really helped me, a lot. Thus far, I don’t see where Augustin has addressed this issue, though he has so many others!❤️

[@gregshub6703]

Does anybody knows where you can get similar cushion which Augustine using? Thanks.

[@pspissky]

Dear Augustin, thank you for your wonderful master class videos! I was wondering about your concept of left hand grip on the violin. Is it only the thumb? Or do you touch also on the other side of the neck, at the root of the first finger? Best wishes, P

[@AugustinHadelichViolin]

I try not to have contact at that point (root of the first fingfer) -- it can make the hand feel a bit stuck and less free to vibrate and move.

[@yeningtan1569]

Augustin Hadelich thank you now I finally figured out why my index finger hurt so much!

[@wendyshell8679]

Peter Spišský I think this may really be bothering me too. If I let my thumb hang out more around the middle of the neck, it helps me release my index finger from that resting point and my finger is much less painful and tense.

[@herbertkronzucker8367]

Hi Augustin - very helpful. I have played with a shoulder rest all my life (having gone through all sorts) but did realise the few times I tried to play without that there was a more intimate connection with the instrument and I was able to produce new shades of vibrato. In one masterclass with Pinchas, he practically forced me to drop the shoulder rest, although I sadly went back to using one afterwards :(. I'm always afraid of dropping the instrument. Now I might try again. What kind of foam do you use for the under-shirt solution, and did you costume-cut it?

[@AugustinHadelichViolin]

it's called a zaret cushion -- can be bought online and is very cheap - I put it under some books for a while so it is less stiff and not as tall.

[@herbertkronzucker8367]

@@AugustinHadelichViolin Thanks for the rapid reply Augustin. I will hunt this down and give it a try as well. No more excuses! Cheers from here :)

[@catalinciobanu9004]

Wich rosin do you use ? And wich strings ?

[@sergioserrano8472]

Hello Augustin, I changed to these cushions and I feel so much better! Do you rise the left shoulder a little bit or not? Also, I use the Clementino cushion but I think that I need a higher one, is this Zaret cushion higher? Thanks in advanced!

[@AugustinHadelichViolin]

yes it’s quite high. i put it under some heavy books for a while before i start using it

[@violiavimal4213]

Hi Augustin I got question, is the cushion you use custom made or is it commercially available? i been using an old kitchen sponge for a little more grip with a rubber band and it doesn't look very nice 😅 ps: I love your " Ask Augustin" video's thank you 🙏

[@AugustinHadelichViolin]

This is what I use: www.sharmusic.com/Accessories/Shoulder-Rests/Zaret-Shoulder-Rest.axd

[@violiavimal4213]

@@AugustinHadelichViolin thank you

[@tammylaronde8593]

I'm having some problem with posture. I have a long neck. My shoulder rest is as high as it can go. Does anyone know of any shoulder rests that can go up higher? I started without a shoulder rest because I prefer the feel of the violin on my shoulder but then I'm not at the proper posture. I was considering getting a high chin rest. Any recommendations for a high chin rest?

[@aldencrispin1086]

Does having a different sized chin rest change the sound? I’ve really been enjoying your videos!😊

[@ladelcolectivo]

From my experience, at least my violin didn't like it's original one. Sounded really ugly with it, I tried different chin rests, and yes, it's sound changed between them. It's a very sensible instrument.

[@concertmasterntl]

Yes. Everything you add to a violin changes the sound. Try different shapes and materials to see what sounds best.

[@adelkharisov]

Did anybody tried the Dolfinos shoulder rest and chin rest system? It is extremely expensive:((

[@jlfamor]

I've always played without shoulder rest, but had the same problem growing, I have a long neck. When I try to play with a shoulder rest some pain and complications appears on my left hand fingers. So I actually play as you with a cushion, and at home that's pretty fine, but WHEN I PLAY LIVE CONCERTS OR COMPETITIONS, I cannot quit the sensation that my violin will fall in some slide or anything. I suppose that it is some tension problem on stage but this is not cool at all, also I usually sweat a lot so I play with a hankerchief but that's not enought. Do you have any recomend for that problem? Thank you and sorry for my long comment.

[@marteut]

Mich würde interessieren wie viel sie das Instrument mit der linken Hand tragen und wie viel sie es mit dem Kinn und Nacken balancieren. Zum Beispiel bei großen lagenwechseln üben t sie mit mehr Druck auf dem kinnhalter aus? Vielen Dank für die sehr intessanten Einblicke in ihr großartiges Spiel

[@AugustinHadelichViolin]

Ich halte die Geige eigentlich mit dem Kinn, mit der linken Hand stütze ich nur manchmal zusätzlich ab. Bei Lagenwechseln versuche ich, nur mit dem Kinn zu halten.

[@noirberries]

I use shoulder rest, but i also noticed that it makes my voilin poking into my neck, to the point where i feel hard to breathe, but my teacher didn't think its a problem though.

[@lachnessmonster1]

If you are having trouble breathing, it's a problem. I used to get really bad jaw pain because I have a very pointy jaw that contacted the chinrest, and my old teacher just told me to suck it up basically. Terrible. I would suggest experimenting with different chin and shoulder rests til you find something that works for you. May also be a posture problem. You can find various sites online that talk about how to find the right fit and what the roles of the chin and shoulder rests should be in filling space

[@BadViola]

​@@lachnessmonster1I had to switch to a centre chinrest for the same reason!

[@yongefy]

dear agustin, what kind of cushion do you use? is it Belvelin? if thats the case, what size do you use?

[@philipq6906]

He asked this questions many times in this comment section. Just have a look for it.

[@Lordvictorinox]

Augustin, I'm tall and skinny and thus I have a long neck. Should I experiment with changing up the height of my shoulder rest, or should I look into some new chinrests?

[@AugustinHadelichViolin]

both could be solutions - it's a question of experimenting. There is a type of chinrest that sits in the middle, which becomes quite high, that you could try for example.

[@Lordvictorinox]

@@AugustinHadelichViolin gotcha, thanks for the response. 👍

[@pietrogenovagaia]

Where can I find and buy that foam pad ? There isn't on amazon.. Thank you!

[@AugustinHadelichViolin]

www.sharmusic.com/Accessories/Shoulder-Rests/Zaret-Shoulder-Rest.axd I don't know about stores in other countries. It's a kind of material that sticks to your shirt and does not slip easy. You can cut it to be smaller, or put it under some heavy books to make it softer and less tall. Another choice is to use rubber foam (from a cheap mattress) and cut it... I know a few violinists who do that.

[@pietrogenovagaia]

@@AugustinHadelichViolin Thank you so much, Maestro! I will arrange something or make it by myself following your suggestions! Your videos are very useful and you are very clear, thank you. Best regards from Italy!

[@azwarcity]

❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤

[@jorgevallin4836]

Thank you... Show us scales and fingerings to practice them

[@ashtonchan7587]

Pandemic> isolation> muscle wastage> readjust shoulder rest. That’s basically me 😂

[@jacobapelgrim6975]

Thats original ..kuschen under de shirt..instead of shoulder rest upon the shoulder

[@42pyroboy]

That's a cool idea to stick a pad under the shirt.

[@magicsoulduet5163]

Augutin you are great, and thank you for you video, but please more gain ir mabe compression with gain on your speach.

[@keboltax]

Why more weight on the right foot?

[@AugustinHadelichViolin]

For me, I get the weight of the bow into the string better when it's my feet are either even or if I put more weight on my right foot. When there is more weight on my left foot, I find it affects the sound production a bit. It's possible too, of course, but I find myself getting more tense, and it's less efficient. However, this may be personal - if more weight on the left foot is better for you, go for it! The important thing is to realize that it can make a difference to the efficiency with which the weight of the bow is applied to the string, and is therefore worth considering -- posture is not only about the upper body.

[@keboltax]

@@AugustinHadelichViolin thanks for writing back! I appreciate your acknowledgement that this being personal and to support what works for the individual. Also very much appreciate - "posture is not only about the upper body."

[@mariyachepurna6527]

Аль,что нет перевода на русский язык

[@felicecusano7326]

Molto interessante e importante, ma perché non fare esempi suonando. Credo sarebbe tutto più facile.

[@elbertwan4038]

0:48 lol 😆

[@elqueloleaesgay6614]

thanks for video :"cc