Ask Ian: Most Changed/Updated Rifle of the 20th Century?

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From Nick on Patreon:
"What small arm of the 20th century do you think got the most updates and changes from first production model to last? Was the effort worth it? Or should this country/company have adopted an entirely new design at some point before that last production?"
After initially jumping to the Mosin Nagant and then the Enfield, I realized that I think this really comes down to a question of AR vs AK. Both of those two rifles have been adapted and redesigned (updated and changed) for use in a wide variety of different roles. Ultimately I think the AK takes the prize on this question, with these variations:
Original AK-47, intended to be used as a submachine gun.
AKM, completely redesigned receiver and intended to be infantry rifle.
RPK, Heavier barrel, new trunnion and stock to be a squad automatic weapon/LMG.
PSL/Yugo M76, larger caliber, serve as designated marksman rifles.
AKS-74U, new top cover and sights, much shorter for use as PDW/SMG.
And plenty more less significant examples...
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[@Lomi311]

In my experience it would be the Super Soaker brand water gun.

[@rhyanussery6161]

Haha that “platform” has seen more rewrites than an episode of Days of Our Lives 😂

[@rickywalter6707]

This is going to be a top comment for sure. lol

[@vapormissile]

Probably by mile. Gold star comment.

[@johnqpublic2718]

If seen some exact reissues of o.g. late 80s super soakers lately.

[@HarveyDangerLurker]

Have you seen Nerf guns evolution? They practically prepare kids for proper firearm handling nowadays.

[@Uncle_Roadkill]

8:10 "as long as you actually build it right" Dat look. The Cursed Krink still haunts Ian, one can tell.

[@GIITW.5OKC]

Think that may have been a jab at the current war, how many Russians do not have optics on their ak-12s at least the 2nd part. The first part may reference the bullpup Croatian AK that was uploaded a few weeks ago. also, I did NOT need to be reminded of how ungodly cursed that krink was

[@ShargDudu-wf6hi]

Year old comment but a little bit of a reach

[@eloiseharbeson2483]

The Galil, the Galil ACE and the Sig are all rather extreme updates to the AK platform.

[@alinaqi9862]

Arguably the pkm too

[@jimdabarbarian]

But those are acknowledged as different guns

[@stephenzavatski8016]

@@jimdabarbarian also not very different in their role, as Ian was getting at.

[@stevenbobbybills]

Same would go for the HK416 and so on and the AR-15 platform.

[@NamelocTheBard]

So glad I was able to find a SIG 556 recently. A bit heavy, but it really feels like all of the good features of an AK and AR put together with that extra Swiss touch.

[@aaronzigelbaum]

Ian magically and swiftly producing random firearms on screen amuses me greatly

[@Klaaism]

Lo we giveth thanks unto Gun Jesus. For in his mercy are we educated.

[@reynaldoandannieangnged6434]

I have some suspicion. I've watched scp videos lately, and Ian magically pulling out random guns from out of nowhere and bringing some to BUG matches makes me think he is a real-life scp... And scp is all about anomalies, he qualifies as one!

[@reynaldoandannieangnged6434]

@@Klaaism I agree thine brother!

[@commoncriminal923]

Literally already in his hand and pulls it up without breaking eye contact I want expecting that

[@davyrando1203]

I'd actually put forward the G3 - initially started as a derivative of the STG, developed into a full-size battle rifle, down-chambered to 9mm for a SMG (MP5), chambered in intermediate cartridge for an assault rifle (HK33, which eventually became the G36), and was also made into a sniper rifle (PSG-1).

[@beingsactual]

Don't forget the cute modular support weapon, the HK21 and its conversions.

[@cacafutimartini8888]

(hk33 didnt became g36, g36 is a diferent plataform) but yes the g3 family is probaly the second for the topic of this video, is just behind the ak because it was only spain/germany putting out variants of it while ak has many countries (china, yugoslavia, poland, iraq....) doing their own thing with it iirc

[@andybreadley429]

G36 is an AR-18 derivative, not HK33.

[@retroa-go-go6888]

And the G3 SG-1, that's just a middle-ground between the G3 and PSG-1

[@walkingfunk]

From stg-44 to Cetme L?

[@MrDowdy11753]

I took that literally as "most parts changed", and thought of how every component of the L85 had tp be redesigned after the initial fielding.

[@slayerofmidgets3201]

Surely it's L85, with essentially every piece being changed and updated

[@jimbo1278]

I never even thaught of this. ihad suspected the AK or the FAL, mavy Norways G3s. the L85 hasdefinitly gone through ALOT of changes

[@Denis-yz5dq]

Ship of Theseus moment, is it really an L85 if all the parts have been changed? Hmmmmm

[@cupface2308]

the L85 is effectively a bullpup AR10

[@george2113]

@@na8291 as an impact weapon? Collarbone then skull depression?

[@alvaroasi]

On this question is required to be a """functional""" patform.

[@jh1823]

You forgot the most important iteration of the AK platform: The Draco pistol.

[@sirwilliam677]

What about the CETME system? The Spanish designed it with the really light projectile for accurate fire at 1000 yds, and it got developed into G3, the belt fed 11/21 series with changeable barrels, the PSG1 sniper, then scaled down into .223 for the hk53, then into the short lived HK32 in 7.62, then into the mp5, into multiple PDWs in all 3 calibers, and even integrally suppressed as the MP5SD. I feel like this wide range of roles that the iterations of the CETME rifle have filled make it at least worth mentioning.

[@mathewfitzpatrick5645]

At the 2:48, and I think it's the AR. you start with a 7.62 battle rifle, shrink it to a 5.56 assault rifle, with repeated dips into the "heavy SMG" category, change the barrel twist, and issued ammo repeatedly, chop the barrel down, chop the carry handle, add rails EVERYWHERE turning it into a force mutliplication platform, simultaneously cut the barrel down while stretching the barrel, THEN cutting the barrel down AGAIN while also scaling the rifle back up to 7.62 and turning it into a sniper rifle, and somewhere in there switching from an "internal" gas piston to a short stroke piston.

[@comradesionnach]

An interesting side note about the service life of the Lee Enfield, it was in service with the Canadian Rangers in the Arctic until 2018 when it was replaced by the Colt Canada C19 ( a licensed Tikka T3 CTR copy).

[@geodkyt]

I would also argue that the PK GPMG also qualifies as an AK derivative (if the Yugoslavian and Romanian sniper rifles qualify). And while the AR also had belt fed variants (in both 7.62x51mm and 5.56x45mm), I'm not aware of any of them that ended up in any serious service (i think it may even be possible that a plurality, if not majority, of rounds fired through the belt fed AR10 variants may have been during 1950s and 1960s promotional videos.) And if you accept the validity of a PK as part of the "AK developmental lineage", the Kalashnikov wins the argument, hands down, as *every single* AK variation role had major military service (and most still do).

[@thomaslee1554]

The AR platform having an upper and lower receiver make the system incredibly versatile. The massive amount of variations that are possible just by swapping the upper are way beyond anything else available. It's as simple as plug and play whereas most other firearms need some level of gunsmithing to achieve similar results.

[@timblack6422]

At least he did admit the AR platform did most , better

[@alexdemoya2119]

Thompson changed a lot from the early model marketed towards postal workers to the later military models.

[@lenny6281]

it still fundamentally fills the same role the whole time

[@lawrencebmarshall]

@@lenny6281 The question wasn't what platform filled the most roles. It was what rifle changed the most. I am not sure I agree with Ian's take. Is a PSL or RPK ak based? Sure, but is it *changed*. I would argue not because the rifle is built to fit a different role. The Thompson went through massive changes while still fitting in the same role. The L85 has had massive changes while still being just a battle rifle. The BAR saw a fair bit of changes, but those changes are not limited to one military.

[@zjanez2868]

and im pretty sure it was laways open bolt in 45 ACP even with its few simplifications it was pretty much always the same design wise

[@andrewrash1931]

@@zjanez2868 no actually the FBI adopted a small number of Thompson’s converted over to 10mm in the late 1980’s early 90’s that also lead them to adopting the MP5 converted to 10mm.

[@andrewrash1931]

@@Manco65 you do realize the post office has its own armed law enforcement agency?

[@katywalker8322]

Think the Lee Enfield has a few more extra variations, that might put it into more contention. For example the Charlton semi automatic derivation, shot gun version, and even the heavily cut down version used for discharging smoke dispensers on tanks.

[@duncanhalliday3655]

+ the delisle silenced carbine version

[@Simon_Nonymous]

Well said. I'd also quibble very slightly with Ian's comment re the Lee-Enfield, writing it off, as this question isn't about just having a long service life. The Lee-Metford/Lee-Enfield family experienced an awful lot of updates, which is why Ian has done so many videos on them ;-)

[@m.streicher8286]

The L85 ended up being a very different gun after the redesigns.

[@xxHELLCAT32xxx]

Does the G3 at least warrant a mention? All of the variations of that basic roller delayed blowback design that filled every role and did so pretty well.

[@prettyboyjeremy]

I say the Cetme c is the orginal of the g3

[@zjanez2868]

@@prettyboyjeremy the origin od the mechanism was all the way back in 1945 as an improvement to the stg, although it never left the prototype stage

[@AnimeSunglasses]

I think the question specifies changes AFTER a rifle actually entered service...

[@minimaltrace]

not to mention it was the base idea for the PSG-1, arguably one of the best sniper rifles, and to a lesser extent, a base for the MP5, all very famous and long lived firearms.

[@ismarwinkelman5648]

Yes, yes it does!

[@Ra1d_danois]

Don't forget the Galil, which is derived from the Finnish RK 62, which in return is derived from the AK.

[@sgthl]

Add the South African R4, which is based on the Galil.

[@monarchco]

That's just a stupid thing to say. Just because something is derivative doesn't mean it isn't a completely different gun. If we go by your [garbage] standard, then the real winner is something like the Bren 2, which is down the line derivative from an AR180.

[@majikmesa3786]

@@sgthl I’d argue the R4 is a Galil variant rather than a different rifle entirely

[@JosephDawson1986]

RK 62 is literally an AK variant as no real mechanical changes were made to the rifle's action. Mechanically its an AK.

[@emergingloki]

My thoughts went a different direction. The AR18/180. Just think how many different weapons are based on that basic design. Thinking about it, surely that's an interesting video topic Ian?

[@tarantulathree-one8013]

I agree. Too many new designs borrows the system. Edit: But he says the 20th Century. So I am going with Ian on this for the AK.

[@ThetaReactor]

We can have a showdown, AR-18 vs CZ-75: Who Got Cloned More?

[@vault_dwelIer]

​​​@@ThetaReactor I think the AR-18 wins that question hands down. The CZ-75 is venerable and surely inspirational, but it seems to me that as time goes on one key feature of the CZ-75 is dropped: the slide riding "inside" the frame, as opposed to wrapping around it. I of course don't handle every new pistol in the world but it has been some time since I've seen this feature, which I consider a quintessential CZ-75 feature. Not only that, but more and more pistols are moving towards striker as opposed to hammer fired designs. Contrast that with the AR-18 design, which only seems to be gaining in prevalence. Guns may not copy its form, but the operating system itself is everywhere. From the SCAR to the AUG to the APC and Bren series, and even commercial systems like Brownells BRN-180. It seems to me that the key defining factors of the CZ-75 are in decline, but still going strong with the AR-18.

[@averagedemographic8933]

I mean, the AK can be an assault rifle, shotgun, automatic rifle, PDW, designated marksmen rifle. It can be a rifle for infantry in the field, mechanized infantry, paratroopers, logistical support troops, security, special forces, and so on. It is available mainly in 7.62, 5.45, and sometimes 5.56. There are multiple generations of them and all of them are still in use today. From the AK-47 to the AK-107, it’s still an AK, which is quite beautiful.

[@skyguard155]

There are also AK DMR's in 7.92x57.

[@ratagris21]

Remember it's still an AK regardless of caliber, but evolution and redesigned over the years.

[@jdstark24]

Can't you kind of say the same about the AR too though? I mean, there's even homemade belt fed ARs. .50 Beowolf ARs, Pistol ARs, etc etc

[@ratagris21]

@@jdstark24 yes and no. Yes in general, but no since the barrel length impacts the bullet performance in a PDW where the AK works regardless of the barrel length.

[@andrewgates8158]

Pkm is upside-down belf fed AK

[@nicholashodges201]

I can't believe Ian left out the Canadian LMG variant of the M-16

[@stevegee218]

And the LMG was also sold to other countries.

[@Matt-xc6sp]

These videos are awesome I haven’t learned as much about firearms since I originally binged every Forgotten Weapons. It’s almost like a 201 class for those who have done the required reading.

[@SailboatActual]

I was just thinking the same thing, it felt like a professor engaging my mind and I found myself using my knowledge on firearms to guess where he was headed next. His videos are an acquired taste though lol

[@liamthepyro]

@@SailboatActual wouldn’t call them an acquired taste personally. I’ve been watching Forgotten Weapons since I was 12 or 13 (I’m 17 now). Ian actually manages to make history interesting.

[@jasoncown]

I would say AK platform -> Galil variants and associated rifles. So mant configurations on the same basic design!

[@KingBattlon]

Gotta go with the CETME. From the 7.92 x 41 prototype to the 7.62 x 51 M58 to the G3 to the HK 21 to the PSG-1 to the HK 33 to the AK 4D, ridiculous number of changes and variants.

[@someguy5444]

But literally half it's "variations" are just different markings or colors.

[@rhyanussery6161]

I completely agree. I would however be fascinated to learn what firearms design with through the most significant mechanical, aesthetic, and just overall changes from conception to final production model. I’m referring to redesigning it on schematics over and over then prototyping etc. Great video Ian! As always

[@davidbowman2001]

I’d love to see that video but it would probably be hard to make just because of how much changes from conception to final product. He may have to do a top 5 for that one lol.

[@allwright5632]

Imho, my 5cns: besides AK & G3, should be mentioned AR18! Starting from '70s it influenced on many famous &successful designs!

[@Fuddleton]

The AK had a fundamental redesign from milled to sheet very early on. Even that alone would make it a contender for "most changed".

[@notachannel5476]

The first AK was stamped current AKs are stamped sooo I don't really think that would count some aks where milled bit it started stamped and is stamped now so it never really changed

[@zjanez2868]

@@notachannel5476 yes it did change stared out stamped as prorotypes, ussr had issues with stamping quality so switched to milled. once they got the stamping thing figured out(a whole decade after the original design) it was back to stamped. and besides the akm had some other improvements

[@groofromtheup5719]

that is far less of a change than the AR getting some plastic receivers honestly.

[@ArcturusOTE]

Hell some AK prototypes were actually short stroke gas operated before the production variants became long stroke

[@Klaaism]

Let alone all the local versions.

[@Strelnikov403]

Ian: *makes a video with an AK and AR in the thumbnail* Also Ian: "In any case, here's my Mosin..."

[@theduke7539]

Id say the Thompson received some serious upgrades and changes. From the 1928 pattern to the M1A1 pattern, it was drastically simplified, deleting the blish lock, the finned barrel, the compensator, and the ladder sights. But if you include commercial Thompsons still in production, then it also transitioned from an open bolt to a closed bolt, from a fixed firing pin to a striker system.

[@randomweirdo2701]

Don't forget Colt's 9mm SMG variant of the AR platform and the follow on "AR-9" commercial PCC variations. That's a really huge operational change from the original platform. There are also AK 9mm variants as well.

[@classifiedad1]

Also the Colt LMG, M231 FPW, and even .50 BMG uppers.

[@tombogan03884]

The Mosin and Lee Enfield would not have qualified any way since they were 19th, not 20th century designs.

[@sliceofcheese3890]

My first thought was the L85, they changed out everything except the receiver.

[@DestroyER82]

Also im just having interesting thought about M1 Garand. It started as .276 Rifle, then moved to 30-06, then the gas system was changed, then later was took over / converted by Italians to BM59 with magazine and all the other features, then the paratrooper version. + of course the various sniper variants inbetween all that and so on. All the best!

[@shawnr771]

Some M1 Garands were converted to .308 by the US Navy after the adoption of the M14. It was cheaper to rechamber them than replace the all the Navy's rifles. Ian has a video on them from several years ago.

[@DestroyER82]

@@shawnr771 Also true, forgot to mention that. Both U.S. and Italians also converted (and even newly manufactured by Breda) 308W variant.

[@outinthesticks1035]

And then there was the Australian conversion of the lee-enfield to a light machine gun

[@buzdygan5488]

i think Lee enfield has also point about all the gimmicky changes, like special stocks for trenches, magazines, conversion to semi auto pistol, even LMG or granade launcher. Not exactly updated, but it has seen many changes, it pretty much could be made into literally any type of gun that we ever used

[@smihtm]

I would argue that something like the aug has had so many large scale changes and variants that would make it at least worth a mention

[@ariaakers7818]

Many variants, however not many changes. Would win or compete for top place with a Variant list, but not changes list.

[@justveg1986]

You didn't mention the changes coming in the M5 Spear. I think that swings it back into balance of the AR platform, but i suppose we havent seen them in any sort of deployment or use

[@dizdizzy8937]

Well done as is every one of your presentations. Thank you

[@afre3398]

By modifying, the method of dragging a strong magnet through a gun store storage area. And attaching every bit the magnet picks up to your favorite gun. Do not count as modifying. But as it looks it is a very popular method though

[@theknifeman7097]

I know right.

[@linus11vf1j]

I have to admit, my first thought was the M1 Garand into the M14 back to the M1A, and then the many iterations of it being a sniper rifle. Thank 9-hole for their pretty awesome latest PA video.

[@Seriona1]

I thought this at first but the issue is that the m14 is not seen as an upgraded m1 Garand but an independent weapon.

[@garypulliam3421]

​@@Seriona1 I disagree

[@wolfgang1331]

I’d say the M1/M14/Mini-14. Starts out as a standard infantry rifle. Gets retooled to a battle rifle. Then you have the full auto version. It’s had a lot of different sniper variants. Recently got updated to the EBR. The Navy/CG uses it to fire lines between ships and a lot of other one-off naval uses. And if you include the Mini-14 versions it also was the basis for assault rifles, police uses, and on and on.

[@andrewlavoie6034]

M14 was not the same as the Garand

[@user-dm1jw1gy5q]

That was great.I enjoyed how you maneuvered through both of them Weapons, and made a lot of sense to doing it!

[@sirmister5383]

Ak takes the win. From 5.45mm to12.7mm definitely one of the more diverse platforms.

[@alexander1902]

I hope you're not talking about that ultra meme "AK50" 🤢🤮

[@thejackal5099]

12.7mm AK?

[@someguy5444]

@@alexander1902 have a little faith dude, all the AK Guy needs is focus as he already has everything else including a damn factory.

[@ignacio3890]

@@alexander1902 Nope.. it's the 6p12 machine gun.

[@alexander1902]

@@ignacio3890 nice.

[@spondulixtanstaafl7887]

Thanks again for the great content. I love the constant learning curve of your channel.

[@maxplaysgamesmore8552]

CETME/G3 platform deserves mention for a lot of changes/variants.

[@heikki7949]

i didnt notice anyone mentioning about it, but; 7.62 Tkiv 85 is probably one of the latest modifications done to mosin(very heavily modified). It was done in 1984

[@bobnaruto123]

i wished Ian talked about the BAR, the first production of the BAR and the last FN design has some considerable differences and then theres the Colt monitor. and would be a good candidate for the part of the question of " was it worth it"

[@steelwolf411]

Don't forget about how it turned into the M240 / FN MAG later on.

[@andywindes4968]

As Mr. Wolf said, the MAG is really nothing more than a tricked out BAR, and thus has shown how amazingly adaptable the design has been. I'm not sure it fits the parameters of the question, but it's a good design to bring up.

[@DanThePrepperMan]

You always put out the most entertaining, fact-filled videos. Your channel is easily my favorite.

[@foamysking]

I’m kinda surprised the bar didn’t get a mention

[@jonathanbirkeland1085]

I’d argue that the HK416 is an AR-15 derived platform as much as the RPK is an AK. The M27 IAR is an interesting evolution on the AR-15 platform as an Automatic Rifle/Light Machinegun. The Colt 9mm SMGs are also AR-15s in my mind too. Changing up the operating system from DI/internal piston to short stroke piston to direct blowback or even open bolt full auto (Firing Port Weapon) shows how much the AR-15 has changed mechanically.

[@johnfisk811]

The Lee Metford (Lee Enfield to be) cartridge was not a black powder cartridge. It was intended to be a smokeless one but the powder was not ready in time so they put a hollow solid rod of black powder in the first iteration until the smokeless was ready. The opposite of the Schmidt Rubin which was designed to be a black powder rifle but went to smokeless before it entered service. Thank you for the episode though Ian.

[@Ensign_Cthulhu]

While this is true, the black powder load influenced the rifling they chose and the change to smokeless forced a change yet again.

[@budwilliams6590]

For the Mosinee I believe they also selected the rifles that were most accurate to add the scope to. They didn't just put scopes on random weapons.

[@badpossum440]

The LEE Enfield was also turned into an automatic rifle ( not very good) So single shot black powder to 5 shot mag to 10 shot mag to SMLE to sniper rifle to jungle carbine to SMLE 7.62x51 to sporterised models, from .22, .22 hornet, .303.22,.303.25, 8mm Turkish. so a few changes.

[@markyoung2981]

Interesting information, thank you for your time posting this content.

[@tacomeru]

Could one draw a similar line between the full sized cartridge G3s and the smaller MP5s and 5.56 rifles? They're derivatives in the same vein as the original AR to the .223 version?

[@Seraphus87]

You've got a point there, as there are also the PSG1, MSG90 and HK21 models, covering sniping and belt-fed automatic fire.

[@tacomeru]

@@Seraphus87 hah, yeah exactly. I was typing the comment as the vid played and he pulled out the RPK right after I hit submit.

[@alexeysaphonov232]

And if you put an ak's bolt side by side with the PK's one you can see that it is mostly an upscale version. It is a (nice?) sovjet tradition of unification. You can finde it in cars, electronics, BTR/BMP, tanks platforms (again in cars). It was a minimalist-militarist (extreme unification and standartstation for the war case) mindset. It has a disadvantage, it is really difficult to innovate in such an environment.

[@TakNuke]

AR-16/18 family started as battle rifle-> assault rifle-> numerous bullpup assault rifle-> conventional polymer assault rifle-> formed the basis of 21st century assault/ battle /sniper rifle both in conventional and bullpup form.

[@WolfHunter4466]

I can’t believe this came out just as I was craving another Forgotten Weapons video!!

[@johnshi6196]

The Kalashnikov PK/PKM general machine gun is basically an upside down AK.

[@colindegrow1475]

Love this first thing in the morning. Thanks Ian

[@Kaze919]

"... but there weren't that many actual changes made to it." Gigachad Mosen: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@HypocriticYT]

I’d say the M16 produced by Colt Canada, formerly Diemaco. Several countries have ordered variations and previously it was modified for Canadian use and accuracy

[@mathisurien4031]

my first thought was to look at the sten/sterling/lanchester family. it saw a huge number of changes from the original to the final versions.

[@LiquidTJ2]

Question specified rifles.

[@ew3612]

Interesting video Ian. Thank you for the great content!

[@aaronkroll9191]

I'd almost argue the G3 since it got developed into the mp5,PSG1,HK21,etc. It's probably the platform with the broadest range.

[@spanuehspanueh7216]

The original USAF GAU-5 filled the role of SMG/PDW from the 60s to possibly today (had them issued to me up to 2006). The new GAU-5 takedown survival rifle is a different variant to further confuse things.

[@mantha6912]

I read "GAU-5" and confused it with the GAU-8 Avenger (or whichever number it is) and got *very* confused as I kept reading.

[@DrSid42]

Don't forget AK based shotguns !

[@sectero9450]

They don't use AK gas system. its like pp-19 variants and saiga/vepr-12/20/410 aren't ak)

[@lenny6281]

are any of those used in military service?

[@sectero9450]

@@lenny6281 police forces sometimes, special services. But mostly civilian users. For example Saiga comes from 1960s the saiga -20 , 410 and 7.62x39 ones

[@t4nkychannel921]

I think there might also be some AR-based shotguns as well, but they're not wide-spread.

[@paleoph6168]

Man, that's based.

[@marcofguzman3075]

So much to say about the changes and calibers I'm glad you are that knowledgeable really 😮

[@BoomerZ.artist]

So glad you showed an m76. Such a cool rifle.

[@EvanDickersonM81]

My first guess was FAL my second would be BAR

[@jonathanlunger2775]

I think the ar18 is the most changed if you consider all the guns that spawned from it

[@Seth9809]

Garand inspired more.

[@worldoftancraft]

Geez, really? Ar18? What about even god-damn-it Gewehr98? The rifle 98, more known to you under retarded name "[a raven voice] kar-kar-kar 98kurtz"?

[@hailexiao2770]

​@@Seth9809 Garand inspired only the AK family. Nearly every western gas piston gun today is derived from the AR-18.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

And the Garand is arguably heavily inspired by the RSC-1917. In the end, it's always French... ;)

[@worldoftancraft]

@@rdrrr Mas-49, being a solid rifle, does not share the principle of work of automatics with AR10

[@jamesbussey2911]

The US M231 Firing Port Weapon was a modified M16A1 for use with the M2 Bradley IFV (As featured in Clinton E Ezell's early 1980's revision of the classic JHB Smith tome 'Small Arms of the World'). Talking of 1980s classics... I first read of the AKMSU being called the 'Krinkov' by staff writers of the (sadly missed) Soldier of Fortune print magazine, in an article with a photo showing SOF founder Robert K Brown somewhere in Afghanistan holding one captured by the Mujihadeen (or 'Muj' as SOF had also christened the resistance fighters).

[@connorburnes7697]

The AK is still continuing excellent evolution. Check out the latest developments from Zastava into a modular system.

[@andrewgates8158]

American made instant barrel swap models made a few years ago seen at shot show

[@nicolasdenton6891]

I would have thought the SA-80

[@irishwristwatch2487]

Only had a few updates in comparison to others. Granted the changes were fairly big but the overall design remained very much the same

[@GunRoastShorts]

This is very well thought out. I had a conversation about this a few times.

[@barrytdrake]

I enjoyed this very much. Thank you, Ian!

[@sergeikuranov7033]

Well, keeping in mind that the number of changes from the prototype AK-46 to the first production AK was about 600, and the amount of modifications of this platform, I think, the first prize obviously goes that way.

[@hakonandreasolaussen1949]

Is there a case to be made for the Krag-Jørgensen in US service despite being adopted in the 19th century, as it carried over into the 20th century? I remember a long ass list of changes from C&Rsenal's video(s) about it, even though it probably doesn't come too close to the number of AR or AK developments

[@almostamateur]

Most of the changes were the infantry and cavalry arguing over the magazine cutoff and rear sight configuration (especially the rear sight), not much change to fundamental mechanics and no change to role (to the best of my knowledge, there wasn't even a sniper variant adopted).

[@ChristopherSmithWHAM]

Ian, I think it’s worth noting that a big reason the AK has undergone more redesigns than the AR is simply that-whether he intended it or not-Stoner designed a very modular system from the get-go, and the AK (even today) is not really a modular design. The single most important redesign of the AR platform was probably the integration of a pic-rail into the receiver top…a feature that is already decades old now. From day one, even such a major change as rebarreling the rifle in an entirely different caliber, is a matter of maybe 20 minutes at a work bench for an AR…and maybe another minute for a bolt swap-if necessary. The AR's modularity permits a single (easily reconfigurable) lower receiver with multiple uppers in different calibers/configurations, which can be easily swapped out in a couple of minutes. Not so much for an AK, which really can’t do any of those things. So necessarily, offering the AK platform in different configurations would include multiple opportunities to upgrade/improve upon the original design, in a way that simply isn’t necessary in the AR platform.

[@cboetigphone]

I think your logic is valid but I would add a couple of AR aspects that should be considered. There is a mechanical branching of ARs from gas to the bolt carrier to a more traditional short stroke piston with both variants being widely used. The other is the enormous range of cartridges being used by the AR platform. Even if you only count military use you have quite a number.

[@qazrat]

While I like this format of Q&A I do miss the hour plus of Ian once a month

[@IlNamelessKinglI]

The Ak didnt only become a DMR or a LMG, the AK succesfully swapped from 7.62x39 to 5.45x39 which are both intermidiate cartridges with different roles AND turned into bullpups, 12 gaige with the Saiga and SMGs with the Vityaz and Bizon. They also had 9x39 for the AK9. Hell you can argue the Galil and Galil Ace, Sig and PKM also count, since the PKM is literally a belt fed upside down AK.

[@edshelden7590]

Excellent presentation very well done.

[@Slothian]

probably Enfield, they had so many versions

[@toolthoughts]

most variations versus the most iterative changes? do you look at it like a family tree and count all the models, even if they're not on the same developmental track? you don't really have major changes is fundamental operation, because why keep something like that. the SA80 with its several overhauls is perhaps a contender, depending how you look at the question. Maybe even more so the Bren/ZB family from vz. 24 to the Taden, if that counts.

[@retroa-go-go6888]

I quite like the "compact" 10" barrel Olympic Arms AR with a Beta-C drum mag.

[@1969Risky]

I would also add the FN/Colt series of Browning pistols. There have been more changes to the design & calibre during it's time. The GP 35 being a good contender with it's licenced & unlicenced copies to the point that the new FN High Power has no common parts with the original. The same can be said about the M1911, the pistols before it & the pistols after it still based on the same design, different calibres, different parts, size but still the same Browning patents.

[@andybreadley429]

inb4 AR-18

[@vibingwithvinyl]

Last time I was this early Russia still had a functioning army.

[@0cat1526]

Almost died laughing🤣

[@rhyanussery6161]

LMAO

[@Matt-xc6sp]

Soon: Your tank looks thirsty, need some gas? 🇫🇮🔥🍾

[@martinh2783]

Are you sure about that or was it just not commonly known yet?

[@worldoftancraft]

This thread of not victims of informational warfare, I declare, is now opened for all newcomers

[@Simon_Nonymous]

Great question, great answers.

[@Dreadought]

My brain expected him to at least mention the Lebel, from the Chasepot, Gras, Kerpachek, then finally Lebel you have fundamental lines throughout that I would argue make it a straight line development of one firearm design, spanning from pre self-contained metalic cartridge, through metallic cartridges, then magazine repeaters, to smokeless powder and spitzer bullets. It may not have evolved much in role, but it developed a lot.

[@OzarksWildman]

It has to be the SA80.

[@Lukusprime]

Obviously the answer is the Glock, there’s a new one every week, it’s like iPhones

[@Erraddo]

The Terni arsenal in Italy experimented with surplus Garands, a butcher's knife and coke. Rechambers, detachable 25 round magazines, bolt-action systems the works. Kinda related, and weird to look at when you talk to anyone who was levied in the late cold war and they tell you about their 8mm bolt action Garand

[@oystersblanco]

Loving these breakfast uploads 🙏

[@grbdevnull5611]

Algorithm engagement comment.

[@canadaisdecent1635]

Ross rifles changed like crazy throughout its life.

[@Scroolewse]

Ask Ian is the best thing ever! More! (please and thank you)!

[@flavio_spqr]

How about the G3? It starts as a battle rifle, then it's scaled down to an intermediate cartridge as the HK33 (and the elusive G41), then it's used as an LMG as the HK21, scaled down again to an SMG in 9mm as the MP5, and then there's the DMR/sniper versions in the guise of the MSG90 and the PSG1.

[@kevinschultz6091]

Technical, semantical point - my understanding is that a lot of the changes Ian mentioned for the AR-15 (the massive improvement in accuracy, the sniper systems, etc.) were done in the 21st century, as opposed to the 20th. As such, the "AK" answer is even more correct because most of its changes were done in the time period in question.

[@willpugh8865]

The M2 browning has to be the longest serving weapon with the fewest changes

[@ralphcousins9381]

You forgot the light machine guns that are used in the Bradley's that are AR base that fires from open bolt I really like your show