How the violin soundpost works - Olaf Grawert gives you insights from the violin-makers workbench

[@pradagio_]

superb video!! efficient and to the point! i have subscribed!

[@kevinv.m.94]

There are really places where luthiers are not available to do this, so we have to learn it on our own. I'm in a place where violins are not prized that high, there are limited supply (usually cheap), and so there are no luthiers around. The closest one could be more than a hundred miles away and across the seas. When I was just starting to take interested to violin, I found a friend who has a cheap violin which was stored in their cabinet for 6 years. When I opened it the violin case, it was in horrible condition. Being eager to draw the bow across the strings, I tried to clean and to fix it. The surface is full of rosin dust sticking to it, since the finishing is made of polyurethane it was able to clean it with rubbing alcohol (fatal when used on real varnish). The bridge was raw, so I trimmed it; the nut is also too high, so I grooved it a bit deeper. The tailpiece is broken it half, so I joined it with epoxy (I had no money to buy a new one). And the soundpost dropped. I was thinking how to put it in place I have no soundpost setter. I improvised a soundpost setter using a hard thin rod, I made it S-shaped, flattened the other end and sharpened it and made a hook on the other end. All of these worked and it become playable. It even turn to sound better and louder than most of the violins which I am able to see and to hear here in our area. I experimented on it: I also tried putting two soundposts, and removing them. Now, I have my own violin, I also customized the height of the strings and even setup the soundpost a bit towards the tailpiece so that it would sound more like a viola with the range of violin (I prefer to use viola, but violas are rarer in here). Although, I put it back to its violin sound. I have setup already bridges and soundpost for 12 violins since then. This is a story of an enthusiast who represent the kind of life of those who does not have access to trained and professional luthiers. You advise to bring violins needing repair to professional luthiers; yet, you also recognize that there are really places where there are no luthiers. To add some more: we just depend on our closest skill (for instance, I do some woodworking) and on "luck" in trying to do what we see from informative videos from KZbin, such as this one. Your video is a big help to us already, for us who does not have access to trained and professional luthiers. By the way, the violins I setup were just cheap violins. Don't worry about them. Haha. They sounded better and felt better after I setup them. I accidentally made dents on two, but their owners never cared. No one wants to spend more than $200 for a violin here in our place. Just sharing a kind of life from a simple violin enthusiast. :) :) :) Keep making videos, Olaf!!! :) :) :) They're helpful and entertaining at the same time.

[@diegoserrato4016]

Dude, that's incredible. You have true passion for the instrument

[@user-yishtabachshmo]

You don't say where exactly you are?

[@josef1ores]

Your story is very interesting. Just as a luthier knows how to play the instruments he builds, a violinist should also have basic notions of how to build a violin, know how to make minor adjustments and how to care for the instrument. Music academies should teach a little of this, even if it is little and very basic.

[@kevinv.m.94]

@@diegoserrato4016 Thank You! I may say that I'm just into bridging the gap between the real and the ideal up to the limit of my capacity, and that is what I can identify as my passion. Without the instrument, I can't do it anyway.

[@kevinv.m.94]

@@user-yishtabachshmo I'm in Pamplona, Camarines Sur, Philippines.

[@lucasmoreirafreire]

In fact, even here in Brazil, it is called "alma", soul in our language. Congratulations on the incredible video! Greetings from Brazil.

[@vonsteuben2457]

This is almost as sacrilegious as a flat bridge. Great informative video!

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

Yes... I agree... Sometimes you have to go to extremes to demonstrate the difference. As for cutting up the other violin.I think the world is a better place without it 😀 Definitely not something to try at home 🤣

[@amascia8327]

👍🏼 ... this amazing little post -- held mostly by the force of elasticity of the faces (and a bit by the geometry of its position being *nearly* the low spot ) -- has a major effect on the sound of the instrument ! ! ! My techie response is to imagine a remote controlled soundpost on miniature tank treads capable of movement and extension in increments of 0.001 MM. Then, the maker would be able to give the musician a map -- a tiny map -- showing the effects of soundpost placement and height... all of which you do now by experience. One can see why musicians are tempted to "fiddle" with this... and thus my techie response, eh. 10 years from now, people will wonder how they ever lived without this device. 🤠 PS: Its not really too hard: a USB port -- or 3, depending on technology used -- at the base of the instrument would provide power and control. The internal cable would be fairly snug since real movement of this device would probably be only a MM or 2 (?). Your Chinese techies could do it easily... (the servos go to worm gears so they will keep its position automatically.) PPS: This will be adequate for patent documentation.

[@catitse2]

In Portuguese the sound post is called "alma", which means "soul" too! Greetings from Brazil! ✌️

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

Nice...

[@SparkingJin]

In Italian "Anima"

[@iokarii]

In Czech "duše", with same meaning.. Soul.. 😊

[@nickcarroll8565]

Same in español

[@2204JCM]

Listening to that Violin now makes me understand what’s so special about a Stradivarius.

[@verfuncht]

2204JCM I mean, it’s also important to note that generally when you hear someone playing a Stradivarius, it’s a world-class soloist playing in an acoustic environment designed for it. But yes, even with the same player in the same room Strads sound way better.

[@hanamiya8008]

Olaf you're one of the loveliest and funniest person I've ever seen in he internet!:") Glad I found your channel

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

Thank you for the comment Hanami... you made my day.

[@constantdarkfog49]

I've not ever played a Violin, but was always fasinated by them. I'm injoying your videos, Thanks

[@yairimunoz1606]

I am so happy that I found your video. I picked up my violin again and my sound post fell out of place. I was playing on it for 2 days. As soon as I saw your video, I was like, "Oh, no! What have I done!?" I quickly loosen up my A & E string. Very informative. Thank you so much. I'll take it to a violin maker as soon as I can.

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

Hi Yairi, Great to hear that you are getting back into playing violin. Yes, a soundpost is pretty important.

[@koko.hauoli]

You are seriously the most amazing addition to the violin world. I am so grateful for your instruction. Thank you

[@TheVoitel]

Actually the sound of the violin does not really come out of the f holes. Rather the sound emanates from the top, which somewhat acts as a big membrane. The main purpose of the f holes is to let the air move in and out to relieve pressure, so that the top can actually vibrate. (The f holes also strongly determine the way the top can vibrate.) So what is the purpose of the soundpost? The back should not actually resonate a lot, because that would create massive problems due to interference. So the soundpost actually does a different thing, and that is to fix a point of the top, so it won’t vibrate. So it creates a sort of fixed point. (This is the reason why some violin makers try to put in the sound post so that its grain is orthogonal to the grain of of the top). Now the sound post acts for the top similar to the bridge for the string: If we stimulate the top far away from a fixed point the membrane will be very soft and require large movement to resonate (like playing sul tasto). If we stimulate the top close to the fixed point it will be much stiffer, causing less dampening for high frequencies, but allowing less movement (like playing sul ponticello). This means that if the bridge is close to the soundpost, the high frequencies will get through very well, but we’ll be limited in how low we can go. If it is further away from the soundpost the high frequencies will be dampened more, but we can put in the movement needed for lower frequencies. This is the reason why the soundpost is in the spot where it is. It should be closer to the high side, so that the high strings will profit from the low dampening, while the low strings will profit from being able to get the low fundamentals out. This also explains why such a small difference in the position has such an effenct on the tone, and why the sound post should not be placed unter the bridge (that would by like bowing the string *on* the bridge). Of course the bridge is actually cut in a way to optimize this effect. One should see bridge, soundpost and bass bar as a connected unit that equalizes the quality of the violin in an extremely complex manner over it’s range. If someone wanted to invent a better sounding violin this is probably the most promising thing to go for. Try to find an even better arrangement and shape of these elements. You can clearly hear this effect in your experiments: When you put a soundpost in at the bass bar side the low side is suddenly very near to a fixpoint and looses all of the fundamental frequencies. When you removed the soundpost you lost lots of middle and higher frequencies leading to a very flat tone. Also you can notice that actually the bridge can’t offer the movement the top would require, so you loose a lot of volume too. (Which you can also see when you play sul tasto. The String won’t resonate as readily, you really need to give it that movement.)

[@glaflamme]

Wow, the difference was not subtle. Thank you for this education!

[@peterspokes4579]

Very informative. As a lifetime engineer learning the violin, this technical info was much appreciated.

[@jeffreyyoung4104]

Thank you sir! With the many centuries of violin making, the position and length of the sound post has probably been played with many times by many people. One thing I saw recently, was an adjustable sound post, that could be held in place with magnets, until the tension is adjusted with a removable wrench... Your wood dowels and setting tool makes more sense to me, as the sound post doesn't need to be changed once it is installed.

[@marcmischief]

Thanks Olaf, I came here out of curiosity about sound posts after dislodged my soundpost yesterday. Already left it with an expert to fix. Thanks for enlightening me!

[@lwilton]

Very interesting information Olof! I wish you had also demonstrated moving the soundpost out of position as an example. I think I know what the effect would have been, but I would have liked to have heard it.

[@AnnapurnaMoffatt]

The sound becomes dull. Workable, but dull and not as resonant. When my luthier made new bridges for me (one for now, one as backup in case the world goes screwy like it did in '20), she added a sound post adjustment at no extra cost and oh, my gosh, did my violin ever sound beautiful! Richer sound and way more resonant. Prior to this year, I think the last time the sound post was adjusted was in '19.

[@jensdavidsen4557]

Brilliant video - your mic is more than adequate for demonstrating how appalling the sound is without proper sound post installation...far greater difference than I expected

[@RobertFay]

*- Great tutorial, Olaf.* *- Simple clarity for a function that is very difficult to visualize...the cut apart violin was needed.* *- Placing the sound post just 'South' of the bridge { on the side where the E string with the most tension is}, opposite the base bar, to transmit the bottom belly's high frequency overtone resonance to the top belly, where those overtones can flower, was something I would never have guessed.* *- It is the high pitch {frequency} overtones that drive the music's thoughtforms into the multitudinous branching harmonic sets that then do their job of flowing down to the base range where the power is to create this illusion's realities into the solid of this holodeck.* *- {Beethoven taught me this about now little energy is needed to use high overtones to produce the results in the place that requires massive energy and power at our level within the illusion...yes, he is alive in the illusion now, again, and graduated Julliard as a conductor, but no longer doing-power using music.}*

[@kpcheck1]

Thank you again Olaf. 2 thumbs up for the video.

[@turquoisesilence5000]

Thank you, Olaf, for this insightful video! I never actually knew about the importance of a sound-post for a violin. The more you know! You're doing a wonderful job making these videos, and I enjoy the content you create. I can't wait until your next video (hopefully you'll hit 1K soon because you definitely deserve it)!

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

Thank you Masha, these are all things that are so normal to me, but are not often taught to string players. It's great to see that it is making a difference.

[@TheChzoronzon]

@@AskOlaftheViolinmaker I didn't expect the 2º "soul" to utterly kill the sound, that was fascinating, nice!

[@Glaswalker1001]

Thank you for this great video! I'm currently building a taglharpa and after watching your video I consider integrating a soundpost to the design!

[@ericross5048]

Best Luthier channel???

[@thomasricatte8287]

Great video! In french, it's called "âme", which is indeed the translation of soul. I was always impressed when I was young and my violin maker was mentioning fixing the "soul" of my violin (especially since I wasn't able to see it :D )

[@patriciarossman8653]

Yes! Magic was created in our minds with that nomenclature. ❤

[@lohanette]

Great video. Explains to me why my violin has lost some of it bass over the last 25 years. Not played it since 1995, but got it out this month. Time to get it checked out.

[@TheCreate78]

Hi! Thanks for this video! In French the sound post is called "l'âme" (lit. "the soul", as you said).

[@kendyboston4225]

Thank you Olaf . I think that your explanation of how a sound post works may have something to do with violin tone because as you say the sound post amoung many other things links the belly with the back of the instrument, but this doesn't explain why it it works . Savart did some well documented experiments with violin sound posts one of which involved the sound post passing through a hole in the back so the sound post didn't contact the back at all but was held in place by a structure secured to the sides of the violin . He found in this experiment that the sound post performed normally . If one views the sound post and bass bar from a cross section of a violin taken at 90° to your longitudinal Cross section and consider what effect the strings have on the bridge when they vibrate you can work out quite easily how a sound post works turning the bridge into a lever with its fulcrum on the treble foot and its bass foot above the bass bar thus regulating the very short vibrations of the higher pitches against the longer vibrations of the lower pitches bringing the sound post , bridge and bass bar together into one regulatory mechanism .

[@wlflightlr]

Great explanation and demo, thank you Olaf!

[@LostbySoul]

Nice video. Thank you. Soundpost in Czech, Slovak is called Duše/Duša - what means Soul. As i see in other comments the other languages have that common.

[@JG-yh8wz]

wow. The bit about taking down the A and E strings if the post falls seems like a good piece if info to have! Thanks!

[@machi4837]

Just found your channel. I love all of these interesting contents, videos! Hope you hit 1k soon!!

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

Thank you, my goal is to educate string players about how their instruments can work better for them... It often doesn't get taught in string lessons.

[@samlevi4744]

I’d say he managed 1k

[@desandbonville9254]

Really interesting subject. I learned a lot today. Thank you!

[@alejandronieto576]

Thanks from Argentina!!

[@cppro_artsluiscepeda6480]

good on you mate..best tutorial ever ---thanks a lot

[@wayneliang4524]

when I went to my luthier he actually moved the soundpost around (slightly to the e string or g string) and show me how it would change the sound it was a pretty cool experience

[@Zoorty_]

And how did the sound changed?

[@wayneliang4524]

When the sound post is moved slightly to the e string the note become brighter e (and a)string become louder and when moved to toward the g side the sound became warmer?(if i remembered correctly) and d and g string became louder. The movement are only within a few milimeter though.

[@genicadelara5243]

I just found your channel. May your channel grow. Good luck

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

Thank you 😀

[@sjessica05]

wow this was really informative and interesting, I didn't know about the existence of a base bar before 😅

[@HealsTheTail]

Cute glasses! Very stylish!

[@TitofBee]

Hey Olaf, thanks for your kind and nice channel

[@billduris464]

My understanding is the top plate acts like a teeter-totter with the sound post as the center. The bridge pushes the top plate down while the other side rises. The vibrations radiate to the ribs and into the maple back. If the post were directly under the bridge, the teeter-totter effect would be lost as well as the sound.

[@mmj9483]

Hello Master Olaf!

[@ezraschwartz5201]

Very informative and interesting, thank you!

[@der0hund]

Thank you! very interesting! Greetings from Vienna!

[@bluehoo0]

Excellent very clearly and concisely explained Thank you 👍👍👍

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

Thank you for the feedback.. I am glad it helped

[@annetteheintzenberg5623]

Very interesting! Thank you for adjusting the soundpost of Nemanja’s violin( did you?🤔)Of course it’s a secret!😊💖Your work is so important!

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

Thank you 🙂 Having the violin working at its best is so important for soloists 🎻

[@krekcabnow2910]

Really helpful video. Also some surprisingly good unintentionally asmr

[@MartinPodholaMlok]

Great video, thanks for it! In Czech language is also the soul, duše. :)

[@OlafFichtner]

27kg pressure?😲 Whoa! I had expected some pressure, but never that much. Learned something again...

[@sarbajitg]

Really great video.

[@dahmouchabdellah8556]

Perfectlley these videos are interessting best mind - best work

[@BaroqueViolin]

Great stuff! Thank you!

[@robynneblissett6510]

Thanks, Olaf!

[@anjinsanx44]

Im new 2 the violin this Is fascinating ...thank u

[@reinaldoiturrino1853]

Thank you . I enjoy your videos

[@RSAnimism]

I'm getting a free violin which appears to not have a bridge (and I guess, no soundpost). Watched your video - if it's basically a freebie with no soul, surely a little soul must be better than none? I suppose there's potential for damage due to likely having been used with no bridge.

[@david_broz]

Hello Olaf, this is absolutely fascinating and I have some questions! As a violinmaker how often do you experiment with the soundpost? Do you ever try different shapes? If so how does the shape affect the sound? Have you tried to make it thicker on one or both ends? Have you tried soundpost that is not straight like curved or maybe a wave? And what experiment, if any, did you try on the violin in general and how did they turn out?

[@davidhuckaby832]

An interesting thing...once my guitar player accidently hit his acoustic guitar on a corner of a coffee table very hard which put an inch diameter hole in the concave side of the bout. So when playing the guitar looking down at the location of inside curve, you see the hole. The discovery amazed us after the hit, was when it was played. A kind of stereo sound came forth with a beautiful tone. So we left it like that ever since.

[@SeanChay]

No joke, even with my phone speaker, I can hear all the differences with and without the sound post. What I was thinking is exactly Olaf has described.

[@federinik77]

Thanks for the video, it's very instructive. I have few questions: Why the bridge is made of maple which is a hard wood, while the sound post is made of spruce? Wouldn't a maple sound post be better in transferring the vibrations to the back? Cheers

[@qdang2659]

When i was a kid, I took my violin in for a bridge fix, I walked out with an add on sound post as a well lol 😆

[@brattingprincess]

Wow! Maybe that's why at least to me my violin sounds so much louder after I took off my shoulder rest. I switched out the default shape and height for a much taller chinrest to fit my 12.5 cm jaw to collarbone height (1.5 inch tall).

[@michaelweiss9219]

Olaf! I enjoy learning more about violins on your channel! Has anyone ever told you of tour resemblance to Mick Jagger?

[@มหิธรทองดีสุข-ซ2พ]

Good advice ....thanks ....i follow you all your clip

[@c0mpuipf]

Had a 70eur violin played with the soundpost until it was full of holes because of the soundpost tool stabbing; then I've put a new soundpost in. Fholes are all denty dont even want to know what's the damage on the inside. So indeed dont mess with it yourself this guy knows what hes talking about

[@JosesGarage101]

Great tutorial. How can you se if the basebar is a good basebar vs a bad basebar? And how to make one and put it in correctly is interesting to know 👍🎻

[@augustinechinnappanmuthria7042]

Beautiful message of sound post of violin excellent sir can I know the sound post how far put behind bridge?

[@kropjesla01]

most informative thank you for sharing!

[@zackittup]

I came from TwoSet!

[@scotisland]

Very interesting.

[@sheppardfun5360]

Awesome vid.

[@EmanuelLothbrock]

Very nice!

[@jondowe5252]

I'm gonna try this at home

[@amandas.6500]

I was just wondering about this yesterday! I have a really cheap violin, & was wondering if it needed readjusting. I decided to buy a better quality one, & will compare them.

[@ScottRedstone]

Amazing how much there is to learn.

[@rogeriooliveira856]

Olaff você é demais, parabéns

[@luvbgrass]

May I ask how you know you have a 100 percent contact on fitting the bridge post. I am interested to know. Thanks for the videos. Very interesting. EE

[@josephbingham1255]

Very nice technical information. A seller of Scott Cao violins says "the sound post may become dislodged during shipment. If this happens you must have it reset before tightening the strings" :) AV Daniel Violin on KZbin has a sound post placing demonstration which does not seem as expert as yourself :)

[@gregsanford3848]

Thank you

[@RosssRoyce]

Thanks a lot!

[@gabrielsalomavelazquez3888]

Dear Olaf, do you have a video for explaining why the back is rather made of 2 pieces instead of one? All I have received is "it is better", "it works better", "it sounds better", and so. But, why so? how is better defined, I mean, in which terms it is better? Thank you!

[@Vambracer]

Probably because the grain is symmetrical. Something about resonate waves I'd wager.

[@tishmusso3949]

Charming!

[@juanokita4401]

good I learned somthing thanks sir

[@victortomaili7793]

I'm wondering... if the soundpost doesen't fit perfectly, will it move slightly away simce there are vibrations acting on it?

[@kasrakhavarinejad1476]

Very useful 💛

[@preludefugue4859]

.. I have an old violin and unfortunately the sound post fell down for a long time inside of the violin. I have taken off all the strings, but none of the violin stores around my area can fix it... Could you please make a video to show how to put it back and where to buy the tools?.... I really want to bring this violin back to life.....Thank you very much.

[@charlescote8391]

Is the construct (shape, width, and especially the type of wood) of the sound post critical ?

[@TitofBee]

Hi Olaf, what is the usual pressure between the plates on the soundpost? in french : l'Âme (Anima in latin) what is the usual difference of rigidity between bottom and top plates wood type? with the arching, isn't it a key to great sounding ? we can adjust the pressure between the plates by adjusting the soundpost length. what shape the soundpost tips have to have?

[@markm737]

Do you have an apprentice? Need to pass on these skills

[@oliviapereira364]

Thank you so much for this! It was very insightful for trying and understanding the sound production as a violinist. The sound with the two soundposts resembles a reaaaally cheap violin (that does not resonate, really stiff). And, to my surprise, the sound without the soundpost resembles a beginner player that has poor control of the bow weight. Maybe because a) the strings get way too soft and all around the place, not vibrating regularly?; and b) The bow optimal dynamics actually changes without a soundpost, since one would have to compensate the absence of counterforce in the actual bowing, like a complete new bowing technique (that would have no point in existing, but I'm just trying to make sure I make a point). Does that make sense or am I just in a weird direction?

[@CG-sr4mv]

I was wondering, I'm a cellist and over the last few months (as the weather has become more humid) I have been noticing my cello sounding more metallic, harsh, and not responding as well. I had a new sound post made about a year ago. I'm nervous it may be too long. Is there a way you can tell by looking into the instrument if it is too long or in a dangerous position? I live hours away from a good luthier unfortunately but if it was in any danger of damaging the instrument I would definitely make a trip. Thanks so much!!! :)

[@RoflJoeOhReally]

Curious to know if you figured it out/resolved it?

[@LouisEmery]

Would changing the position of the bridge have an equivalent effect? This produces after all a relative motion between the post and the bridge. (Though the bridge can be move 100 microns here and there, I don't notice any effect myself. I don't move the soundpost because I'm not a certified/professional sound post mover.) How about stringing up the sawed-out violin, and giving it out as a prize? ;)

[@weldonwilson]

Just curious as to what effect the diameter of the sound post has on the sound. It seems like there must be a sweet spot for the size. I'm thinking that if the diameter is too large then the plates cant move as much as they should and the sound would be muted. Too small a diameter and you have not enough support in the contact spots on the ends of the post and you risk doing damage to the plates. Any information on how the size of the post was settled on?

[@arwo1143]

Doesn’t the strings pressure crush the violin if you take out the sound post?

[@gaiusSatyr]

Thanks Man

[@ValCharis]

L'âme in French 😊 super interesting! I didn't know its existence! Is it present on every stringed instrument?

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

Yes, there is a soundpost in every instrument of the violin family.

[@johnhaughey5347]

What determines the bridge position, distance wise , is it measured from fingerboard or positioned relative to the C,s Thank you

[@terry1965]

I've always wondered if you got your sample set correctly. What would happen if you had another sound post underneath the g-string side of the bridge. Because it's always seemed to me like you're losing a lot of vibration with just one sound post but two feet on the bridge

[@terry1965]

Supposed to be soundpost

[@c0mpuipf]

why are the f-holes so discolored at the edges? you get that from adjusting the soundpost and rubbing them with the tool so the varnish is used? Or that's a big NO NO if that happens?

[@ALAPINO]

How important is the species of the wood the sound post is made from? I would assume that the diameter also matters as that would change it's mass and how it would transmit the vibrations to and fro.

[@ameliemtz6470]

Hello Olaf, I’d like to know, if you replace the sound post for a new one, will the sound of the violin be a bit shallow in the first few days after the replacement? Same for the bridge?

[@loconater]

Hey Olaf! I just got a learner violin for $400 and I noticed the soundpost has a rectangular hole in it! It looks like someone stabbed it with a knife or some kind of tool, it looks deep but it looks thin enough to where I don't think it'd break. Will this effect the sound-quality of my instrument? Do you know if this is some kind of practice or do you think this would be someone's goof-up? The instrument is highly rated but it is a bit rough around the edges and there's a friggin coffee stain inside of it. Talk about Cupacoffee, sigh. Your input would be greatly appreciated! I've looked online everywhere but couldn't find any info on this kind of situation.