Does Elden Ring Deserve Its Nomination? | Asmongold Reacts

[@ninjykun]

There's an interview where Miyazaki says that he wanted to make the souls games to mimic his experience reading books he couldn't fully comprehend due to his poor english. He couldn't understand every section and so he'd have to jump around and as he learned, he'd peace together the story over time. (I think he mentioned liking when things came together and suddenly made sense once the context was discovered.) He did say he enjoyed coming up with his own stories to fill in the blanks.

[@murfeel1173]

@@thisisfyne Agreed! That makes so much sense!

[@ChainsawFatality]

@@Ragna_rage Many would beg to differ. I enjoy that aspect of Eldenring and other Soulsborn games. Getting spoonfed narratives in Tv shows, movies, and games, gets boring sometimes. Writing is an artform and therefore some stories should be vastly different than others.

[@ElShogoso]

@@Ragna_rage That's the intention though. It's supposed to be ambiguous. It's not supposed to be a story that you can easily compile in a book or story video and answer every question the reader has. It's supposed to leave a lot of room for interpretation, speculation, and theorycrafting. I think the point of attriction is whether or not this makes for a valid narrative mechanism. I personally think it does, the whole point of an adventure is piece things together and try to fill in the blanks, that's basically how humanity's historians are trying to reconstruct human history from archaeological findings, for example. But some can argue that it's only a proper narrative if you can know the entire story clearly and that said story is an unniversally accepted canon.

[@ninjykun]

@@Ragna_rage You're missing the point. When he would read the books that had chunks he couldn't understand he would come up with his own explanations for how it was connected. He enjoyed the opportunity to use his imagination to essentially "co-author" a story based on the one he was reading at the time. The vagueness is a feature that allows room for wonder and creativity. It's very much an experience crafted to resemble his own. It's that experience that is intended. If that doesn't resonate with you I can understand how you wouldn't enjoy it. Nothing wrong with that. For the people it's meant for though, it's amazing and refreshing. It's not really an objective situation.

[@shade0636]

@@Ragna_rage What makes your opinion more valuable than the many other people who enjoy the style of storytelling?

[@Alucard2356]

Old Demon King from Dark Souls 3 is a great boss fight for showing story through scenery and animations. Him being surrounded by the dead bodies of his kind and the fact that he loses all his power towards the end of the fight and becomes pathetic and weak, unable to hold his weapon up anymore and desperately swats you away. The last of his kind, desperately trying to cling to life.

[@JustOneMoreTaskMom]

Not to mention after his fight you can find the petrified bodies of quelana kneeling at the fair ladys feet behind a hidden door. One of the saddest pieces of content, just hidden away where most players wouldn't even notice.

[@WaywardStargazer]

@@JustOneMoreTaskMom Tell me about it man. I completely stumbled across it by accident and when it clicked in my mind as to what I was looking at I had to just stop and stand there. I couldn't believe it. Was completely speechless.

[@BladeZlayer]

I was so under lvl on Old Demon King.. And when he finally.. after 3 hours of deaths.. laying there helpless and weak.. that's a feeling I'll never forget. And the environment was really cool to fight in

[@richardsmith5803]

the big take away fromsoft wanted to convey from elden ring is that Malenia is the Blade of Miquella.

[@UnrealPower113229]

And she has never known defeat. Except for that one dude with a pot on his head

[@j0nnyism]

And what is miquella?

[@RageKage987]

@@j0nnyism is this a serious question or a troll? if its a troll hilarious if not then miquella is malenias twin brother who is also cursed with youth he tried to cure malenias scarlet rot and she swore to protect him. hes also an emperion like malenia and ranni.

[@michaelyohn5026]

so glad to see Ratatoskr get some exposure he is an excellent content creator

[@wado_ichimonji2311]

He's mid at best

[@painhurtssometimes2185]

@@ninjack11 Well he said himself Souls content and what not isn’t what he really wants to do so if you’re subbed to him for souls content exclusively you’ll be disappointed. He obviously likes the genre but I remember a while back he said he didn’t want to be “stuck” as just a souls KZbinr because he originally covered other series before

[@greyman8335]

I love that he goes into the metaphors aswell. Really helps understand the story a lot better.

[@IIXeloII]

Souls” it’s not dark souls. They didn’t name it dark souls did they ?

[@Haerknox]

One of the most based gigachad KZbinrs to ever exist

[@AstonMartinStig]

Nice. Ratatoskr getting some recognition. Even more people he can alienate.

[@LEWfromdaHOU]

Lol

[@Taylor.L.]

@@doublejesusful why is he so hated

[@Axe064]

@@Taylor.L. i have no idea either but woth his name being Ratatoskr its pretty funny considering that in the myths all he does is shit talk the eagle and ragon at the top of the world tree and get the pissed off at each other xD Edit: Just saw the end of this video, this guy is hilarious

[@Simon-xi7lb]

rata's such a c*nt.

[@Batman_94]

Stop,I cant agree with you anymore

[@dynamo47]

I love ratatoskr, I always watch his elden ring videos and it’s nice seeing him get more recognition.

[@poggerz6567]

I thought you meant the god, ratatoskr lol

[@michaelyohn5026]

@@poggerz6567 he does :D that's what his channel avatar is

[@Bboyred20]

Man what a multitalented rodent

[@spagmon]

@@poggerz6567 also a smite character kekw

[@kaiderhai86]

STOP WITH THE STUPID CHIME iykwim

[@MrDaddymeez1]

I agree... If u ask elden lore experts the story of elden they will have the same response in terms of the story but if u ask them timeline and motivations the story starts to differ. I believe this is a good thing. My friend thought of Ranni as a hero fighting the oppression of the two fingers while I just view her as a someone who murdered her brother to further her goal. This is cool because I chose her story to walk the dark path with her and my friend chose her story to help free everyone from the two fingers but we both understand she is creating new Era one different from the two fingers

[@kamakazi5103]

I think it deserves game of the year. Though i personally think it really doesn't deserve best narrative. Most of the people consuming the narrative didn't understand any of without going outside it and that alone should kill the nomination. I like the lore but how many people recommend elden ring based solely on the story?

[@flextape7323]

@@JohnSmith-rr3jt that's a rock hard lie, clearly don't have the mental capacity to understand elden ring

[@officeimpact6377]

@@epiccthulu realistically most people didn't understand elden rings story & "wait for the vaati video" is a meme for a reason. Sekiro tried to have a typical story & it was very average, not comparable to GoW.

[@Zephhi]

@@JohnSmith-rr3jt Exactly. Elden Ring doesn't have a narrative. It has lore

[@traviscue2099]

Yeah I'd agree 100%.. Fromsoftware make brilliant game, but having the narrative being basically hidden to most players.. Should exclude it from this catagory. I've platinumed every Soulsbourne title, and while I picked up on the gist of the world and the story.. I only found out due to youtube videos explaining it.. The Bloodbourne lore is fucking amazing, but I didn't know 90% of it until I looked it up online after beating it a few times.. Which made me play it again.

[@kamakazi5103]

@@epiccthulu didn't say u need to I said most people do go outside the game probably more than half

[@brotherofzeus1162]

Another part about how ludwig regains a little more humanity is that in his second phase he loses his weakness to fire attacks which is common on beast enemies

[@bannedmann4469]

Ludonarrative harmony.

[@zeonler]

and serrated damage bonus doesn't apply anymore and the weapon damage multiplier switch from beast to kin

[@zenmindgamer]

Narrative =/= Lore using WoW as an example. Narrative = The gameplay of each expansion, the quests as they culminate in each zone's climatic confrontation, all of which culminate into an ultimatum battle against a large threat. The story actually experienced firsthand. Lore = All the content in Warcraft novels that never makes it into the game. Elden Ring has deep, complex lore told through dialogue that aligns with weapon, armor, and item descriptions that can be pieced together through inference and static environment. Experiencing those events almost never occurs and when we do encounter bosses from the lore we're typically dealing with shattered remnants of whatever power they once wielded. Admittedly, it can be a fuzzy line in these games depending on how one interprets the character agency as a vessel of narration, but typically narrative will be what's deliberately portrayed as an affect on the story whereas it often feels like our characters are wading through the aftermath of a story already told. The fact that so many people often don't understand the endings they get in a FromSoft game suggests that the narrative is not a powerful tool in these games.

[@doomknight233]

You can easily understand the Lord of Frenzy Flame ending. It's even told to you what that path leads to and you see what you did when you became a Lord of Frenzy Flame. I understand what you're trying to imply and mean but this is what makes it not true since look at DS1 for example, you link the fire, and in DS3 you see countless Undead linking the fire over and over that the first flame starts feeding on its own ashes. In short: If you don't get or understand the endings well, it can be by many factor, sometimes game too, but in the end the story is there and the narrative in Elden Ring is "The fallen leaves tell a story of a tarnished who -" that's the narrative.

[@darthchilde8880]

Even tho u r very much correct, do u really think that its on par with other games which presents u with the story first hand cuz its fits the narrative better. What im trying to say is narrative goes hand in hand with the audience, but elden ring havent been appreciated for it even by most players except lore hunters. Cuz i can literally see the gacha game genshin impact has similar almost same type of narrative as eldel ring where most info we get is from item description, environment, and in game books but genshin also maintains a storytelling aspest for casual players which is very nicely presented, i woukd have considered Genshin better than Elden Ring if elden rings gameolay wast peak and the map and environment is jst out of the world.

[@zenmindgamer]

​@@doomknight233 I get the narrative, mate. Personally, I'm a fan of the narratives that result in breaking the cycles, something that was beautifully made poignant in DS2 DLC that heavily impacted the interpretation of DS3's Lord of Hollows conclusion - and it's funny that a lot of people don't like discussing DS2's place in the narrative as it literally establishes what precisely is wrong with the Dark Souls setting, it's as if so many people didn't understand that rekindling the fire was such a bad thing that FromSoft tried to beat the message into peoples' heads with a blunt tome in Scholar of the First Sin. As far as narrative goes, we're talking about an ending that requires two games to fully grasp the relevance of the conclusion, and technically 3 if we want to further dive into how beautiful the Soul of Cinder taking on Gwyn's aspect is. I think that's damned potent stuff. I'd still argue my position due to the nature of FromSoft's story presentation. In fact, FromSoft's narrative is so obscure I'd reckon that most people who play DS3 would consider Yuria a villain as she makes light of Yoel's death and eventually requests that the player kills a character who's been a stalwart ally - for many that would be a full stop on the narrative. "...character agency as a vessel of narration." is the important part of my initial comment. That's a gameplay element I enjoy in the FromSoft games as it lends to the personal feeling of being an archaeologist/researcher seeking to understand the nature of the world these games are set in. However, not everybody who plays these games wants to be an archaeologist: lacking scientific data, I'd presume a great many people who play FromSoft games treat them as boss gauntlets or build runs and while there's certainly going to be overlap between lorehounds/build runners as FromSoft games gain in popularity the number of people who pick these tiles up - as we see with sales of each title increasing exponentially - ensure that group disparity between passing interest vs active narrative engagement remains a constant. Your last point also seems like it was made as though I implied there's little narrative to these games, which I think I've made clear is certainly not the case. However it's the amount of work that's reliant on player agency and interpretation that creates the narrative. Ergo, for a game to be awarded best narrative I believe, as far as mass audience appeal goes, there needs to be some deliberate narrative arc that's not open to interpretation. So I'll use another example from two games in the same genre. Amnesia vs Outlast. Both games have incredibly similar gameplay loops ranging between first-person explorative hiding mechanics utilizing a character incapable of fighting back against threats while picking up clues about the world they're in. Between the two Outlast has the far stronger narrative. This is because Amnesia's narrative is told almost strictly through page and book fragments the player must seek out and piece together if they have an active interest in understanding the world, elsewise they're simply aiming for game completion without possibly understanding the overall narrative of mental illness and depravity that is the result of their character. Outlast has a similar loop where one can find out more about the experimental nature of Mount Massive Asylum, but for players aiming merely for completion the game's narrative still acts upon the player so that they can understand and experience the depravity occurring around them. In Amnesia you don't find out that you're the monster unless you seek out the lore fragments for yourself, otherwise you're just somebody trying to get out of a labyrinth; in Outlast the monsters are a tormenting force yet through active seeking you find out that they're the victims themselves. With these examples in mind that's why I'll say that while Dark Souls has a more meaningful story that Dragon Age has a stronger narrative.

[@zenmindgamer]

@@doomknight233 Side note: Since you bring up the Lord of Frenzied Flame ending could you explain whether you believe that's a good or bad ending?

[@alalalal5952]

Yeah, also people PRISE the shit out of DarkSouls and still nobody read books in Elder Scrolls games, so DarkSouls having "narritive" is bullshit. People just want to think they are smart, finaly grouping up to be able to beat the shit out of the opposition.

[@Margonxp]

Gonna agree with Asmon, Ludwig's cutscene is one of the best i've ever seen. The fact that this disturbing monster restores his humanity and then pick ups the legendary sword while standing up like a damn warrior in this disgusting horse body is just perfection. Also let's not forget the OST which is one of the best songs i've ever heard in gaming. What a masterpiece of a boss fight.

[@MrJpc1234]

The story beats of elden ring also hit differently depending on what ending you go ....Starscourge Radahn fight hits differently if ur doing the Ranni ending for example

[@Lutasiren]

never played the game but what an L video. Can this dude use some elden ring story beats/boss fights to illustrate the point ehh elden ring's story is good? or change the tittle to why bloodborne deserves the nomination

[@Omega77232]

@@Lutasiren This video is about fromsoftware narrative in general so you are that have an L take.

[@patches_]

@@Lutasiren he probably didnt want to put many spoilers for elden ring since it's still a relatively recent release. However, since elden ring uses the exact same style of storytelling i think that it's totally fine to use dark souls and blood borne as a reference.

[@Lutasiren]

​@@patches_ i dunno man. it's like putting a title "does pokemon gen 9 suck?" and then spend the whole video talking about how game freak changed direction in black/white (thus leading to today) I clicked the video to see why elden ring's narrative is worthy of nominating. not some random-ass boss design ten years ago. yeah, he made a point, but not the one written in the title.

[@notsoshadey]

@@Omega77232 the title literally say elden ring not from software your reaching

[@takeachance5881]

The most prominent example of ludwig phase 2 music syncing with cutscene and dialog would be Maliketh's phase 2 transition. I think there's a reason why people compare these 2 so often and this definitely contributes to that.

[@Slurpified]

I really dont get why people compare em just cause of that scene. Theres like minimal lore on ludwig compared to Malikeths history. Maliketh dips his Cinquedea in the rune of death. Ludwig just has a blade attached to his back and it just so happens to fall by his side.

[@sorashiro7611]

I really thought you were talking about Ludwig the dreamer lmfao

[@JDisclmd]

@@Slurpified no? It has way more more than maliketh clown

[@FreedomAndPeaceOnly]

There are *'fixated themes'* in all soulsgames which resemble each other and are almost like an obligation tribute and something that always comes back for every game. 😎 For example... ° the positive encouraging NPC who meets a grim fate or is otherwise helpless without your aid ( Siegmeier, & Siegward, Benhard of Jugo, Alexander the Warriorjar ) ° the backstabbing asshole NPC who ironically... always is Patches in one way or the other 😁 ° an area full of Dragons, or other gigantic creatures that are a blend of being worshipped or feared ° Human transcendence in a good or chaotic way ° a great figure whos Humanity is halfway gone into monstrosity ( Ludwig in Bloodborne, Raykard in Eldenring, Arthorias in DS1 ) Many things return in one form or another. Probably because Miyazaki simply likes it or feels it is almost like without it, his signature is missing. 🙃

[@Anonymous07192]

@@JDisclmd I don't know what you've been smoking but I want some

[@kenkessler301]

Elden ring is still an incredible game, but it’s not story driven. Most people who played had no idea what was even going on becuase it’s non essential

[@paledrake]

I think soulsborne games does a lot of good storytelling, but also a lot of bad story telling. It really is a mixed bag imo. The main chunk of lore is always clear to understand, even if the more nitty gritty details might be hidden in item descriptions or some random NPCs dialogue or quest. What I will say about ER though is that the game is VERY dependent that the player finds specific NPCs and items for the narrative to feel satisfying...which is kinda hard to do in an open-world game. It worked really well in their semi-linear previous games, but in ER it starts falling apart. NPC questline in particular are some of the most random and infuriating thing to deal with in ER, where setting foot in certain places can completely lock you out of questlines. Some NPCs can also just be easily missed. It's by far the games weakest implementation of their narrative and by far the sloppiest delivery of NPC questing yet across the soulsborne franchise.

[@oxsila]

Souls games and Elden Ring usually boil down to a low life becoming something much greater by the end. The parts in between (boss lore, npc, area lore) are what makes it special because you have room to draw your own individual conclusions and imagery alot of the time similar to a book as opposed to being spoon fed every single detail

[@paledrake]

@@oxsila Some people like to fill in the gaps with their own interpretation, but imo that just makes everyone create their own head canons and fight about the lore. I'm not a fan, it's like the writers weren't decisive or confident enough so they made everything ambiguous

[@oxsila]

@@paledrake Your point is so easily debunked. This is fromsoft's style. They've done it since demon's souls 2009. Just say you're not educated. Saying they just took a lazy route is just uninformed. Their style of storytelling is simply a different method. You don't like it? Cool.

[@paledrake]

@@oxsila You either didn't read or understand comment AND you assume everything about me. Cool. Btw most of their lore don't even have much interpretation, outside of the endings (which I like). The most important parts or their stories are easy to understand, the exception being Bloodborne which is MY FAVORITE ENTRY not to mention my favorite game of all time. So shut your mouth, I honestly can't bother with people like you.

[@TheTimeGnome]

The lore is deep and diverse, but the narrative its on par with pokemon (kill the gym leaders to get to the final boss) you as the player have a very bare bones narrative vs the world building.

[@thebukojoeplays]

I said the same thing to my brother some days ago. It's like Pokémon Red/Blue narrative. The terrible quest design in the game made the narrative all the more problematic. The game is great and I enjoyed it a lot (had 200+ hours of playtime) but it's nowhere a masterpiece. If there was no internet and people have no way to corroborate their findings in the game, it's highly likely that less than 10% of the players will understand the story of the game.

[@Krim707]

Did you skip the absolutely insane intro cinematic?

[@Krim707]

@@thebukojoeplays its a masterpiece narrative and game.

[@LeftJoystick]

@Krim707 Your best response is “The intro cinematic”? You have just proven their entire argument.

[@ExtremeBemo]

@@LeftJoystick git gud.

[@JboJackson]

For me it was the nameless king, was so interested in the lore in DS1 and to see it come full circle and for him to be alive and all the lore that came with it just made me love the story so much more. Truly a masterpiece in story telling.

[@j0nnyism]

I want to know is how did the asylum demon become really fat. Does anyone know that?

[@cyne122]

I believe "Lore" are "Narrative" are two completely different things. "Lore" is the History Books. "Who? What? When? Where? Why? and How?" And the "Narrative" is the story you tell using WWWWWH. And Elden Ring is built in a way (Fantastically btw) where WE build the Narrative. It gives us all the tools to piece together the Narrative, but it doesn't really. do it itself. If it did, then it would kind-of take away from what makes games like this magical.

[@rumpocalypse]

Elden Ring has very little "narrative" but has a lot of lore. By this I mean that the VAST majority of the interesting "narrative" has happened before you start the game. Playing Elden Ring is perhaps the worst way to consume the narrative of Elden Ring

[@superstd]

the only narrative i get from playing elden ring is touching grass , trying to be the meme lord , fight against ghosts of broken family and bonk everything 🤔 10/10

[@WhiteBuffaloWakanGli]

One of the most entertaining games I’ve ever played. Playing through blind, scouring every inch of the map discovering everything was such a memorable experience.

[@richardsmith5803]

if only our memory could be wiped of playing it. so we could could see it for the first time again

[@yewknight]

Elden Ring may have saved my life. I got so lost in that game I forgot to be suicidal for a few weeks.

[@erikwilliams8692]

@@richardsmith5803 frrrrr

[@ErgoTGT]

@@Dharengo still its very good game and I think it is better than God of War just because God of War story is boring. It have good jokes and characters but they are not a Kratos and his son. Elden ring has better fighting, bosses, music, atmosphere. Yes GoW have graphics and "story" but I beat elden ring 8 times and gonna do that again but I never gonna touch GoW again. Have great day)

[@migueltucabron]

But is it one of the five games this year that has better narrative than ALL the other games this year? Is it top 20? sure. Even top 10? yeah, maybe. But no shot it's top 5. Also keep in mind that Game award theoretically takes all games this year into consideration, so no shot it's top 5.

[@fedorkochemasov4533]

I do think GoW deserves it. Elden Ring's story is great, as per usual in From Soft's games. However, after watching GoW story I think it just can't compare. There's great humour, drama, character development and especially the connection to the previous game. The story feels complete and an entire roller coaster of emotions. Elden ring is just epic, but it gives me the same feelings I had whenever I played other souls games. GoW makes me a lot more invested, I don't think I have been invested in any story as much as in GoW's.

[@richardsmith5803]

so invested im sure your time spent playing it should be much greater then

[@JafferBasha14]

Game of the year: elden ring Best narrative: GOW

[@random767612e]

While I do very much enjoy GoW's story and characters, I think it plays it a bit safe. It feels a bit "Marvel Movie" like to me, full of quips and sometimes a little needless drama. Still very, very enjoyable, but I personally prefer Elden Ring's subtler, history-like story.

[@OGking831]

Even if we agreed that Ragnarok had better "story", the lore, gameplay, open world aspect, choosing your own path, free choices. Elden Ring is what makes it GOTY.

[@mightyn00dle64]

How you going to give a game best narrative when most people don't even know what's happening xD

[@peepoSano]

one of the most underrated bosses that tells the story of the " fight " and the environment is demon's souls boss " maiden astraea " i played all the souls game and this was the saddest and one of the most memorable moments in the souls games in my experience

[@justinx590]

me like Sif

[@CastnSpellz]

My votes on Elden Ring, I'm all about that gameplay and no other game this year has made me lose myself for hundreds of hours like Elden Ring did, it consumed me. All the content creators for this game and lore that you have to hunt for, push it to another level too

[@garuda4361]

That's probably because you haven't played that many great games and are like under 25 years old? I love the souls series and finished elden ring. Had an amazing experience with it but it isn't in my top 10 games and for story or lore not even in my top 20.

[@howzhauzan63]

you might want to explore more games buddy 🤣

[@CastnSpellz]

@@garuda4361 I could be your daddy, played every souls game to completion, my fav fromsoft game is bloodborne, do you need my autobiography with that too? Piss off nerd.

[@CastnSpellz]

@@howzhauzan63 you might want to play some better games on your channel nerd. 🤣

[@howzhauzan63]

@@CastnSpellz someone who play only souls game says I'm a nerd, the irony 💀

[@yummy7519]

I think Elden ring deserves the nomination for its unique way of presenting the story. However I believe God of War Ragnarok should win for best narrative for having a strong rooted story the game is made around.

[@ammardian]

To be frank I think there is something beautiful about feeling the story more than it explicitly being handed out to you. Lore has a way of creating it's own beauty through atmospheric elements.

[@viserys247]

Elden Ring is definitely the best game I played this year, but winning an award for narrative is not exactly sitting right with alot of people for obvious reasons.

[@MJGianesello]

Obvious and painfully stupid

[@MattHatter360]

They're contesting the nomination, which I think the game undubitably deserves. About winning, it comes down to personal preference.

[@AwesomeNuke]

I don't care for it being nominated for Best Narrative. However, if it wins, it'll be a complete circus Literally all 4 of the other nominated games completely dominated Elden Ring when it comes to Narrative. Elden Ring isn't even Top 10 this year for narrative

[@Scotia__]

Elden Ring for gameplay hands-down, GOW:R for the rest. ER does what it does very well, but GOW is the more well-rounded and a much more complete experience, which imo is deserving of GOTY. They really need to divide the category up though, because you're comparing vastly different styles of games to each other and in the end it will always come down to personal preference for what you want in a game.

[@svarog8253]

Gow r is boring game tbh… feels like dlc than anything at least to me…

[@fletcherperry7958]

@@svarog8253 the world was almost completely different even though it was in the same location. Def not dlc

[@coreydillon4330]

@@svarog8253 everyone saying this hasn’t played the game and you can tell because they just call you stupid and block you when you confront him. That David Jaffe video was from 7 months ago. I love Elden Ring too but I’m getting tired of people sucking it off like it was the cure for cancer, aids and got you laid. Souls fanbase overhyped shit to the point you start hating the games

[@fletcherperry7958]

I think that the only category Elden Ring beats God of War in is art style. Every thing else god of war does objectively better at. Better story, better direction, better narrative, and gameplay. God of War Ragnarok has a much more fluid, dynamic gameplay/combat experience, Elden ring has lots of weapons and spells but they don’t have many different attacks each. Its quality over quantity, however there is just so much quantity in elden ring that it almost makes up for It. Both games are fantastic and I love both of them but I think ragnarok has a slight edge in actually winning GOTY. I will be happy if either game wins though, both incredible.

[@mateusz7953]

You put it quite well. I've always seen FromSoft's games (Demon Souls and onwards) as an "experience". There is story and lore, but that's not the main draw. The draw is the experience of going through the game's world, overcoming challanges and discovering new stuff. With the new GoW, it's much more of a journey. You are Kratos, you have all these characters you interact with, you progress thorugh the game for the story, to see it unfold. FromSoft's games have impeccable gameplay and it alone makes people play them. GoW has more things going for it aside from the gameplay. Two vastly different games.

[@thatisbadass]

Elden Ring has been the best game released in a while, you can just tell how much people enjoy it and keep on playing

[@aceplatini859]

Haven't touched it since I beat it, so carry on speaking for yourself.

[@justsomeannoyingredpanda]

400 hours and only on my third playthrough babyyyyyy

[@therealzizmon1748]

Not really, no. There are some parts that are actually pretty cool but: - Copy pasted dungeons - Some of the worst balance in any souls game - Bosses that obscure the entire screen so you can't even see their attacks - Awful pvp (although it's getting better over time) - Narrative is incredibly weak, there's nothing holding the players to the game except for discovering more lore - Late game damage scaling means that everything 1shots you even with 60 Vigor (so I just did a level 1 run)

[@andrec1629]

@@therealzizmon1748 thats so wrong in so many levels , countless NPC's give you the narrative , they literally explain everything thats going on and what they dont you can piece it together really easy. every massive game reuses assets , if not imagine how long the development would've been to have to do 100's of unique bosses. PVP isnt the main way to play , its secondary content , and they are paying attention to it RN. Late game scaling is how it should be , enemies do more damage , should you expect them to do less damage than before? Plus im 50 vigor late game and nothing one shots me , it might take 70% my HP but thats why they made a roll button.

[@therealzizmon1748]

@@andrec1629 I don't think you're understanding me. You can very easily miss the lore in your first playthrough, but even then, there's nothing interesting keeping the player invested in the world except for more exploration. You're not actually responding to what I said. Also, there is literally no excuse for the amount of asset reuses, like having the same boss 9 FUCKING TIMES. There's no reason to have so many reused dungeons and bosses if they are basically the same. There should have been less dungeons, as the main content is mostly fine. Enemies doing more damage is fine, but what isn't fun is being 1shot irregardless of how much vigor you have. Please learn to read with understanding.

[@battosai5311]

I loved the game. Loved the characters like Radahn and places like Raya academy. But in terms of narrative strength. No, it just doesn't focus on that aspect. It tells the story uniquely in other ways and that's why people loved it and there's nothing wrong with that. Just because it won't win best narrative or game of the year doesn't change how good the game is and its unfortunate that people care so much about awards.

[@eiwhaz-tina6528]

To begin with the problem with awards it's the same we have with Hollywood. Americans imposing a value of sorts into appreciation and consideration for the rest of the world. Now we have more cinema awards festivals with much more prestige than Hollywood in terms of Art appreciation. But Games don't have that yet since it's a very young artistic medium.

[@dumbo1950]

I love souls games, but I'm willing to admit the lore only mentality really holds the game back. I really wanted elden ring to have cutscenes of characters talking to eachother and the problems of the lands between being explained. Maybe elden ring deserves game of the year, but I don't think it deserves best narrative when God of War ragnarok exists. Objectively elden ring doesn't have a story to show us it has a bunch of lore to read, which I doubt anyone did. This game was built with the hope that everyone would watch vaati vidya and I didn't because the bosses and npc are not as good as previous title bosses and npc. Gwyn>Godfrey imo

[@Blizz3112]

I simply adore the Soul's ways of narrative... because it doesn't bore you with endless dialog + cutscenes... it shows a bit, and THEN lets you explore and find lore on your own about the place you explore which is so much more satisfying... Hollow Knight does this as well with you completing your journal and such...

[@cockbender2466]

The most important thing is they don't think that average gamer is dumb af and needs his food to served chewed.

[@iDislikeEditThanksForTheLikes]

@@cockbender2466 and they thought wrong. because the average gamer is actually dumb and now are on youtube watching lorefinders on the game to understand the narrative. lmfao

[@cockbender2466]

@@iDislikeEditThanksForTheLikes Nah only those who dont wanna play ng+. First time beating Souls games is a surviving quest. Ng+ is exploring, cuz everything around is so weak.

[@Terribly_Grimm]

Honestly Ranni's questline had me more invested than most tripleA entire narratives in years and that was an optional side ques chain

[@OfficerDowns]

You mention storytelling bosses, but didn’t even mention Malekith. That boss battle caught me so off guard. I hadn’t put together that the Beast clergyman was the Fallen god of death. His stolen death rune was a big reason everything went to shit

[@Ingu.z]

Everyone I've ever talked to that has played the first Portal game loves the narrative. It's more on rails than a train, but in this case it plays to its strength, and you don't have to watch cutscenes or other expositions of dialogue to understand what's going on. You play Portal and you're an actor, no cutscene needed to explain what you're doing because you're doing it.

[@JoeKing69]

In Fromsoft games the narrative is told organically through the gameplay itself. Miyazaki takes massive inspiration from tabletop rpg's such as DnD where the world and lore are provided to the player, but your character and their means of traversing the world are left largely up to you. How a character solves problems, learns and evolves is already what makes up most stories anyways, but in this format it's the kind of story that only a game can tell, and I love it. It's style is dynamic, visual, visceral and environmental. Some prefer a more traditional approach to storytelling, and that's okay. But the way Miyazaki tells his is perfectly valid and that's just a fact.

[@Jack_Garland78]

That's a really good take. What I feel it boils down to is 'How do you judge the quality of something (narrative) when the construction of it depends entire on the player?' Depending on how you answer that question, Elden Ring's narrative is either brilliant/above all or mediocre.

[@JoeKing69]

@@Jack_Garland78 That feeling you get after finally killing that difficult boss, that IS true catharsis. That is what the best of stories can offer humanity. The triumph of the human spirit. Like an entire Rocky movie you've stood toe to toe with what you thought was an unbeatable enemy, adapted to it, learned it's weaknesses, grew stronger and more resilient as a result. The storytelling I've found can actually get pretty meta; I can't tell you how many of my friends have been afflicted by a "belly of the whale" moment where they lose hope of overcoming a boss and so stop playing, sometimes for weeks at a time, only to ultimately return stronger than ever. There's actually several videos you can find of people talking about how a game like Dark Souls helped with their depression. It may not be for everyone, but it is certainly valid.

[@JoeKing69]

@@Hooga89 it's actually a combination of the two; those characters provide the skeleton of the story, like a dungeon master. The rest is what I've already elaborated on.

[@brendenh9461]

I love Elden Ring but let’s stop pretending the story is told organically or easily followed. It’s a jumbled mess outside of the huge details and even then some of that can be missed. Anyone who tries to say they pieced together the puzzle of the story without tons of lore videos is just huffing copium

[@brendenh9461]

@@Hooga89 Oh so since you only needed 5 minutes to get the story, what’s with all the fatty lore? Story must not be as good as you think it is. Checkmate, ratio I bet you summoned for Malenia

[@note4note804]

I think people have the same problem with elden ring as they do with a lot of warhammer 40k stories. You spend 90% of your time with the story learning about all the cool things that already happened, so that when it comes time to do the 10% where you kill a guy who says 2 lines of dialogue at you, you have enough context to feel like something big happened. That said, in both cases the story is almost entirely prologue, and vague implications of epilogue, and when you ask what it was that actually happened during the gametime, the answer is, "a silent protagonist murdered a bunch of people with cool names and titles and then dropped items with cool names and titles until the thing with the coolest name and title appeared and you killed them."

[@Doge76548]

Elden ring is 100% my game of the year and it does have a good story. I can see why people don’t want it to win best narrative tho. The story in ED doesn’t deliver the same emotion as for example Ragnarok, and you’re not invested in the characters the same way you are in that game. In my opinion stuff like that makes a story better and GoW did it beautifully which is why it’s my pick for narrative of the year.

[@Xxxx-bp1lk]

People need to understand the difference between narrative and lore.

[@Hyperslayer_X]

People also need to understand that interpretive narratives are still narratives. Trying to discredit them is a disservice to the vast potential of storytelling. GOWR has a great story, but it’s told in the most traditional, safe, and conventional way. Of course it is, because GOWR is a character driven story. It needs lots of cutscenes and dialogue between characters because of that. Elden Ring on the other hand directly ties the narrative into the gameplay (such as exploration and boss fights). That is because Souls games are world driven narratives and many argue that world driven narratives are only truly possible in games.

[@j0nnyism]

Yea lore is the background stuff story is what happens and the characters actions etc

[@LifeForAiur]

I can understand the distinction between Narrative and Lore. However, there is a particular nuance to be had. There are times when lore in a game serves only as a backdrop, giving some kind of context. There are cases where lore takes a more active role and the discovery of lore may be an important part to progress through a game's story. Storytelling as a whole can be a more active process, where characters lead the player to a journey. This is more of a classic Narrative based game. But, less often, storytelling could also be very subtle- one that carefully gives the world and the player's journey context through optional but meaningful lore pieces. Imagine for example, a strange post-apocalyptic world where the player is only tasked with survival. As they progress through the land they discover key pieces about what caused this cataclysm and also may elucidate certain secrets about the world- allowing the player to unlock content that may further flesh out the story. Here, the storyline isn't fed to you but rather told passively. The game mechanics circle around the key story in the game, which is essentially your hero's journey. Risk of Rain 2 does this to a lesser extent but is another good example of what I am talking about.

[@TooGumbica]

Yes, but there is no nuance to it. Passive story telling has its place in storys. But is should never be applauded as THE PINICLE of best story telling. By that case, league of legends has the best, most detailed story trough details like items, characters and stuff. If everytime game comes out with no story telling, but a bunch of lore, soon we will have all top games with no story but books to read about what we could have been playing instead....oh wait, LoL, valorant, Dota, souls games...

[@ruggedlemmings9163]

The issue is that everything you described is still considered lore and worldbuilding, things that are part of a narrative but are not narratives themselves. Now I'm not saying that Elden Ring - and From games in general - don't have narratives. But learning about all the crazy stuff that happened in the past, "this guy was cursed because x, y, and z happened so he decided to do a, b, and c" is lore. Exposition. The vast majority of the story in From games has already happened before our character even shows up, we're just playing through the final chapters. All this to say I don't think a game in which it's entirely possible to miss the narrative if you don't bother reading anything - something that's simple to do if all you care about in these games is the challenge and the epic boss fights - deserves to be nominated for "best narrative." I'd wager there's a fair number of people that played Elden Ring that couldn't tell you anything about it's story despite having 100%'d the game. That's the major issue that plagues the passive narrative style that you described where rather than seeing all the major events that shaped the world into what it is presently we're told about them. This is where the age old writing adage comes into play: "Show, don't tell." Just to be clear, though: I'm not saying this is a fault against Elden Ring's writing. From's style isn't about a traditional narrative being told, it's about uncovering the mysteries of how and why the world got messed up. In that aspect they're absolutely amazing...but that's not a narrative. And as such, I'd argue it does not deserve to be nominated for Best Narrative. Now, if there was a category for best world building Elden Ring would have that on lock down, no questions asked.

[@etherialaardvark9780]

I think you just described Fallout 76 at launch =P

[@peacepham7838]

The problem is, lore and worldbuilding is part of narrative, but not all. Narrative NEED consistency and cohesive, go together with transparency and relatable element. YES, Darksoul narrative is like that "unfinished horse drawing" meme. Is it unique and creative way? YES. Is it balance and good? NO.

[@LifeForAiur]

@@TooGumbica the case of league of legends is lore serving more of a backdrop rather than a narrative tool though. Perhaps a better analogy is comparing films that are very plot focused and films where it feels like nothing happened but the characters and mundane events serve as an exploration of some kind of theme. The former corresponds to narrative focused games (like The Last of Us) and the latter corresponds to more lore focused games (like Outer Wilds). In the latter the story is told indirectly- but the story is still told. It's the difference between having a heavy character focused drama and one where characters tell you context about the world and it is your actions in game that define the story.

[@vansserafim]

I had tons of fun watching all videos about elden ring lore. So it’s great way to tell story with a lot of mystery. But it’s also frustrating to not have clear answers

[@TrueHylianKnight]

Ah I love Ratatoskr. Glad he's getting seen

[@jarhopper]

The story is deep, but you dont have to get too much involved, its like in real life, you can get through all shit without reading news and following own guts. You are so right about the case

[@lightcloud__]

lore and narrative is different, narrative is telling a story who needs to appear in the game itself. If the story doesnt appear in the game its a lore.

[@migueltucabron]

No, you mean story vs lore. Narrative isn't necessarily the same as story.

[@dragonsword6768]

@@migueltucabronthat’s literally what narrative is😭

[@frogery]

video games are the only medium that can tell a narrative through experience and non-linear exploration. the idea that good narratives can only be told through cutscenes and exposition is an insult to what games are capable of and reduces them to nothing more than interactive movies.

[@EndlessDreamer448]

Another really good aspect of Elden Rings environmental storytelling is the Lord of Frenzied Flame questline which lore wise in my opinion is one the best in the entire game. The lore you learn about the omens, the soul crushing despair of the hierarchy of the Golden Order and seeing that massive crypt filled with merchant bodies you really get this overwhelming sense of hopelessness that's reinforced by the state of the Lands Between and the myriad forces alien and unknowable and uncaring vying to control it. You could easily see how that despair would lead to burning madness and how one could believe it would be best to burn it all away.

[@TheSleyar]

I think he probably should’ve used examples from Elden ring

[@j0nnyism]

Yea I was wondering why he was talking about a different game too. It’s hardly a great argument

[@Macromonarch]

I would give Eldenring Gameplay win, but God of War for the narrative, it was better than any movie ive seen in the past several years. Amazing story. That being said, elden ring is still phenomenal.

[@thebukojoeplays]

@@Hooga89 What's your favorite novel?

[@exanthus9131]

@@Hooga89 did you just call GOW a cliche? LMFAO you from software fanboys are wildly wrong.

[@Buster-McTunder]

I feel like they’re totally different beasts. Story and narrative does exist in Elden Ring, like the example of Overwatch or even a game like Apex, no cutscenes but the characters interacting with one another in a different array of scenarios lends itself to character work. But you compare that to a more traditional story like TW3 or GOW: Ragnarok, i feel like the game is relying on aesthetic and other factors to draw them into looking for the deeper story, one that the majority of players will go right past.

[@victorzheng8042]

The tweet about narrative and lore is super interesting. I don’t exactly agree with it, but i can see where she’s coming from. At what point is lore no longer a substitute for story telling, or is the lore in that case told poorly. Like for example, I would consider the Silmarillion to be a poor story, but great at building upon the lore of Middle Earth, while the original trilogy were great narratives independent of the lore.

[@ms6534]

Asmongold brought up Fight Club as a comparison. That's unfair to Fight Club. The word narrative has a definition. It's a standard definition. Rodent Ring has a thousand facts scattered through a world. If you collected all those facts, then connected them into a narrative, you still only have about a third of a story. That's why Souls game interpreters make a living on KZbin filling in that story. Take Fight Club. Chop it into ten second clips. Throw two-thirds of those clips away. Then put those clips in an Easter egg hunt. That's Elden Ring. There is no narrative. The game provides the lore for you to create your own beliefs about the story. It's just wrong for Elden Ring to be nominated for it's narrative.

[@jedimastertitaniumdickmana2939]

So true as big a fan of ER I am i still recognise its flow’s and story is one

[@Batman_94]

I was not at all expecting Asmongild to have this level of awareness about Bloodborne lore.

[@bnmftw]

After experiencing GoW: Ragnarok I don’t think Elden Ring can win the best narrative category. Game of the year though? Very probable!

[@mr.a8036]

Doesn’t deserve narrative award, Deserve to be the game of the year

[@sabihrashid252]

I don't think having an indirect method of storytelling should preclude a game from being nominated for 'Best Narrative'. With that being said, I don't think Elden Ring's lore is quite up to snuff, and probably wouldn't nominate it this year. Bloodborne, on the other hand...

[@eiwhaz-tina6528]

That's because the categories are stupid this year. There are different types of narrative in games as their are not all the same, and they should compete in their respective fields each. Elden ring should fit in Environmental storytelling, not Classical Narrative.

[@DaxterL]

OH MY GOD Thank you so much for watching Ratatoskr. Souls lore channels are so small. If you care about elden ring, check out the channel.

[@xjrei17]

Hmm I wonder why they’re so small. Almost like most people don’t care about the narratives of these games

[@TheMuddler]

@@xjrei17 You do know the biggest lore channel VaatiVidya has over 2.4M subscribers?

[@JustMe_Inq]

@@xjrei17 i mean, if the only thing you do is stare at a wall, of course you'll think the wall is the only thing to exist in the world. Just because you don't care it doesn't mean there isn't an entire community around it. For example, I couldn't care less about football (or soccer) but that doesn't prevent the World Cup from happening, does it?

[@defaultname7685]

13:05 if this happened in GoW: Ragnarok Arteus: What's going on? He's changed! Kratos: He's remembering who he once was, boy. Arteus: How can you tell?? Kratos: His stature has returned and his attacks are more refined.

[@rykersixx]

Elden ring is by far the best new game I played this year but as much as I love lore and diving into the depths of it and coming up with my own theories and the story telling via gameplay I think it is too obtuse for the average player to notice and enjoy. Most people who play a souls game think the story to them is “kill more bosses”. When I saw who the final boss of elden ring was I knew exactly who that was in the story but most players will not know the significance. I think a perfect narrative combines an easy to understand plot line for the average audience, deeper messages and lore that change the interpretation for the thinkers, environments that speak of a history people can connect to things or speculate on, and be enjoyable no matter which way you digest it. It’s ducking hard to all that lmao 😅

[@Xartah]

But the story of the player character easiest described as "you kill everyone". Sure, you have different endings depending on if you listen to certain npcs and kill certain optional enemies. Knowing who Radagon was and his part in history doesn't change that your only encounter with him is just another mindless zombie you kill on your way to the ending. The same goes for everything else; here's a boss arena, fight the boss, who might say a line at the start and at the end, it is the only interaction you will have with them.

[@Kamasillvia]

@@Xartah Isn't that kind of the problem on itself? Game takes away the choice from the player, giving you a pre-described role of murder-hobo, with extra steps, often with outside sources, to understand, wtf actually going on? For example, I like to deep dive in things from the point of my character, doing the work of glorified detective, doing 100% dialogue with everyone I can. In elden ring, why even bother, if my character generalyy can't react any other way than killing. In this case, elden ring story feels like a separate entity to the game itself, which exist, but doesn't matter to the player character that much. This disconnection I think is the reason, why most of the people don't enjoy the story.

[@rykersixx]

So far I think everyone agrees in this comment chain we just have a misunderstanding lol 😂 sounds like we all think the game’s story for the average player is not accessible enough for them to feel it is the best story of the year in gaming. Being Intentionally vague and making your story not easily digestible can be fun and lead many to think your story is far more deep than it actually is. This is not a bad approach but usually even as someone who enjoys that A LOT, I also see it as a gimmick to have people think your story is deeper than it is. Be vague, leave holes in the lore intentionally, have the reader/player make their own assumptions and go wow this is complex because whatever they imagine will likely be more satisfying then what the writer had intended. We can sit and discuss this honestly for hours. The only thing I think we can agree on though is the average person who plays a souls game will not pay attention to every piece of lore they receive and not consider the player’s journey a story in of itself because playing a game to the end is not usually considered a story to the average person even if it can be. Tldr : this topic has far more depth and nuances to it than we can reasonably ever come to a definitive conclusion on and it. Surface level we all agree that most players without KZbin videos explaining everything to them have no idea what is going on in a game like elden ring. I’ll say it one more time “MOST PLAYERS” so the one guy who says “I understood it all perfectly without help lol” can be brought back up here and shown he didn’t even understand this comment.

[@bartoszbartosiewicz1123]

Exactly, compared to something like Nier: Automata which has one of the most beautifull and interesting stories i have ever expirienced in a videogame, and manages to be both easy to understand when it comes to overall plot but also intricate and nuanced for people who are willing to dig deeper Elden Ring narrative feels just painfully bad.

[@spacesloth9529]

I understand what these people are trying to say, however i dont think that the quality of a narrative can be determined by how much effort you have to put into it, to understand it for yourself.

[@mynamebashbarti]

I also feel like the lore and overall story of Elden Ring was one of the best if not greatest storywriting I've witnessed. But I see the problem with Best Narritive because the whole story has to be decrypted by the community and we rely on people like VaatiVidya to make it seem so good, due to their storytelling capabilities. (I'm faded then a ho right now; writing this.)

[@JoeKing69]

You can figure it out yourself, you're just not supposed to do so on your first run. My first time playing Bloodborne for instance I had no idea what the hell had transpired when the credits rolled, but on subsequent playthroughs I was able to focus more on the details of the story and how it all fit together. It took about 7 or 8 playthroughs before I had comfortably pieced it together on my my own (not everything mind you, but quite a bit). Part of the magic of these games is that there's always new secret tidbits to be uncovered by the perceptive player. It makes me feel like a detective!

[@waxmonkeys3841]

It's ok... It's no Elder Scrolls Morrowind.

[@juan16911]

I disagree, thought it was really bland and boring.

[@SnarkyGamers]

Best way to explain the lore thing is basically, narrative is why you have gone to a place why you're in said place and lore is about that place seperate to you directly.

[@SnarkyGamers]

Elden Ring, boatfuls of Lore but a very thin narrative throwing you section to section.

[@XorusVII]

What i like about from software story telling is that their games are telling the story in a way thats unique to computer games, they dont try to be movies with cutscenes and scripted sequences, they leave alot of narrative and story for you to find out through exploration and lore hunting. Video game journous are oblivious to that, they just want to get movie - like stories served to them on a silver platter

[@matattacks8724]

As journos who type words, they don't understand showing a story, mostly words they can read and hear lmao

[@AyDrewZilla]

Trueeeee

[@nmj1937]

I don’t think it’s helping his case any that he’s not using any examples from ER. He’s using examples from DS3 and BB, games which I personally feel have better narratives than ER.

[@t19890204]

casuals nowadays are too coddled by landholding, even coming down to narrative now.. The way elden ring tells a story is amazing and immersive because you are just like a traveler who just happened to be there at that time and specific place. Its the same feeling like someone teleported you into another world and you have to figure things out on your own. YOU are the story.

[@everdash]

Elden Ring no way in hell deserves a nomination for Narrative. GOTY? Sure. Art direction? Sure. Narrative? That's a fucking insult to the thousands of games who actually put effort into story writing and execution.

[@diegoh.6502]

Not just that, when you first arrive at ludwig you might think he is just another beast in the way, but when he gets to half hp and the he shifts you are reminded that he is Ludwig the holy fucking blade, a very important character in the lore, there is a very important conflict in there between the scourge of the beast blood and the oposite side of humanity trying to fight it, there is such a complex feeling and concept explained here and in my opinion there is no better way to tell the story and feeling of the world that you are in. Yes, these are games but in very few times like this you feel in ther u know?

[@defaultname7685]

20:55 if this happened in GoW: Ragnarok instead: Arteus: He's changed his form! Kratos: That... no... Arteus: What is it? Kratos: He has returned to Gwyn, the original fire keeper. Be on guard boy!

[@darkdeath5550]

I'd say Elden Ring is a weird combination of those Eternal Questions that have no set answer, but are made to be mulled over for a long time, each person coming to their conclusion being the idea behind it, even the answer of nothing being the correct one. It also feels like one of those times where you find subject you're really into, something like Lord of the Rings, Douglas Adams, or Terry Pratchett books, ones with such an expansive world of wonder where somethings are so strange that you can only ponder at why something is, theories rattling around in your brain, "How is that possible? Why did he write it that way? What happened before then?" and that's the fun of it. The constant thought or the acceptance of what the world is, that the ridiculousness is enjoyable, madness and the unexplained are so tantalizing. As someone who has played dozens of JRPGs, read lots of books, hundreds of manga, comics, seen a magnitude of anime both obscure and minute, the Souls way of telling a story hits the closest for me because of the way the world is, it has already gone to shit, and you're tossed in there like a newborn lamb, told, "Figure it the fuck out," and either the path of a mindless machine or a calculating master who knows it all are at your choice. Enjoy the fights, world, monsters, bosses, architecture, magic, fashion, looking cool as fuck, being a monster in PvP, finding ways to mess with the world, every scrap of paper has a point even if minute, and the sadness that you can feel for the once powerful beings that have been brought down low by calamity. I've seen enough stories, they all try the same bland mush or fling themselves off a cliff with crazy ideas that never would work out of desperation, and for me, Souls games give me that creative buzz that the books I read, the first time I saw Cowboy Beebop, watching Trigun, imagined what could happen next time I picked up the next book in a manga series, and my first games that set the tone for what I'd come to love.

[@danielrafferty4108]

Great analysis. As some one who has nerded out on every example in your first paragraph I agree with your analysis. It's what's kept me going on my first playthrough so far without much in the way of guides. The story/narrative of the game is the journey they player makes to becoming the elden lord or whatever else they choose when they earn the top dog position. The lore and characters are there to make you question what to do next and how to feel about what you've already done to that point and provides a bigger picture the more you travel and keep on top of it. The story reflects real life in many ways. You can be as well informed or ignorant as you want but still somehow reach the same end goal.

[@AtavisticBob-420]

I get chills everytime i hear the gwyn theme mixed with soul of cinder no matter what every time.

[@CB-lw7ty]

I feel like it depends what you want to define as "narrative". If you're going by the idea that everything in the game has to make sense, connect and tell a singular story then no it probably doesn't deserve it when its a very free range open world with lots of story hidden away in all kinds of locations. If you want to talk about single story threads and the narrative they tell, there's enough well told small story threads throughout Elden Ring that definitely deserve to be nominated and could be considered as a potential winner. Personally having just finished Ragnarok that would have my vote for best narrative, but I haven't played plague tale.

[@Kroxie]

Souls Games have never been great when it came to storytelling upfront like most games. You need to find out for yourself by reading item descriptions and doing quests to piece them together.

[@ryanqube9132]

They say that Elden Ring has no character development, yet you fought foes who you used to run away from, you put on armor and weapons that suited you the most, you decide what or who you want to kill or help, you climb to the highest of strength by exploring the world. Each tarnished is different from one another, in other words, the main character are ourselves, the one playing this game, to interpret the meaning of this game using our own perception.

[@brendenh9461]

@@snaplemouton Fromm Software fans can’t admit the story to these games is horribly presented (and rather familiar to the dark souls story). Only way anyone will have a real grasp on the story Is through KZbin. Meanwhile games like God of War (which I’ve never even played) offer complex relationships between characters with a more epic story shadowing over them. It’s ridiculous to pretend lore scraps on items for 100 hours is comparable

[@ryanqube9132]

@@snaplemouton I never said that the narrative of elder ring is better than any narrative-driven games. I'm just saying there's character development in the game and the story is very intriguing though combining all the pieces takes time, thus it deserves to be nominated. God of War Ragnarok definitely takes the crown for the best narrative and actor. Stop pulling stuff outside of the context of the conversation.

[@Elgato1221]

5:00 i think you're conflating lore with story. think of it this way. Lore is part of the setting where as story is the events playing out within the setting. a bad story can have a good setting and vica verca. Elden Ring's setting and lore is pretty top notch but the story is very obiously not a priority, and thats fine. Elden Ring is grate despite that and maybe even a little because of that. the game allows the player to create there own story.

[@jordthenord7164]

As someone who’s loosely played the souls series, I say in my opinion that Elden ring has the best/most story out of all souls games. It gives the player the most opportunities to engage with the story in ways other than just looking at sword descriptions and other things. With the environmental story telling, the few ending dependent side quests, and the overall story told during the main quest.

[@greyman8335]

Honestly i wouldn't mind more curscenes in souls games. Not like rdr2 or god of war but that scene introducing Radahn was so sick. Now they have cutscenes for unimportant sh*t instead. Like opening a door, accesing a bridge in volcano manor etc..

[@eldenring_area]

Elden Ring is my love... 😁🔥🔥

[@Xartah]

My issue with Fromsoft games is that the player takes the role of a janitor tasked to clean a stage. You can learn about this incredible performance that these great performers performed on that stage before your job begins. Your job now is just to clean up the mess so that the next show can begin. You can learn of all these great persons and nations but by the time you find them the kingdoms have fallen and the people are mindless zombies. Your interaction with them is a boss fight where they might say a line at the start, when they transition into the second phase and finally when they are killed. The lore/narrative doesn't interact with the player. I don't feel like I'm part of the story.

[@meleoronikalgo3603]

Another example of story telling through game play in souls games is enemy placement, whenever you get to an area and find enemies that are physically twisted assuming a beastly/dragon-ish form or have red eyes it automatically computes that the area is in some way touched by the abyss or for example in sekiro whenever there are fishlike npcs or npcs with red glowing eyes it's a tell about them having consumed water from the fountainhead palace and it hints towards the rejuvenation waters having special effects

[@attenberg]

The story doesn’t force itself upon you and this gives you the illusion of choice, but technically it’s not really any different. People like to choose.

[@tomh6010]

I think the reason Elden Ring deserves it's nomination is the fact you only really get to interact with certain parts of the story (both over-arching narrative and smaller stories) in a single playthrough, and it makes you want to play again to see the other endings or quest lines - having a narrative that's complex and technically interesting means very little if it's all told at once in a linear fashion. Moreover, having one single meaning or message to a narrative is pointless if it doesn't make you think about it afterwards. This is why the LOTR movies are so easy to re-watch, because you can pick up more and more fine details each time and learn about the universe outside of the movies themselves. The other nominations in the category are good, but Elden Ring's narrative is great, and the game overall is a level of quality the rest of the industry should aspire to.

[@offworlder461]

The player (you) is basically the narrative of Elden Ring, or any Souls games. As you journey across the Lands Between, you discover bits and pieces of the game's lore, and then you piece them all together. That, in my opinion, is a genius narrative design. For that reason I think Elden Ring deserves its nomination.

[@punchykarma6685]

Yea people who don't think it should be nominated are crazy. Now will it win. Most likely not since GoW will win that, but it easily deserves the nomination. Yes, Elden Ring's narrative is a little bit harder to follow if you aren't paying attention, but if you are paying attention it's so good.

[@TheRedWolvesFTW]

I don't know; maybe it's due to personal preference; although I think that Elden Ring has cool lore, the way they go about telling it isn't particularly genius or good if it's a game all about its lore and narrative, which is why it's a good thing that Elden Ring isn't a game all about its lore and narrative. I believe Elden Ring was a game made to excel in its gameplay, such as fighting, cool enemy designs, cool loot, cool abilities and builds, and maybe its atmosphere, which can give it a few points towards its narrative. Elden Ring doesn't need to be amazing at everything for it to be a good game, and in fact, I think if Elden Ring had invested a lot more in its story and narrative, it most likely would have taken a lot more development time off of the things that people did end up enjoying. At the end of the day, I personally think the reason people want to vote for Elden Ring for best narrative is because they really enjoy the game, and instead of thinking about whether or not the game deserves said award, they just want Elden Ring to win a lot of awards (or maybe they genuinely believe it has the best narrative; I don't know; I'm not a psychologist), which is fine, I guess, because when it's all said and done, it's just one of many game award shows that will happen over the years.

[@offworlder461]

@@radicalindividual7774 based on your "narrative", clearly you're a priviliged individual who loves to be spoon-fed the lore of any game in the world, including the lore of your life

[@offworlder461]

@@punchykarma6685 i agree. While GoW's narrative is very formulaic, it is utilized in a good way, combined with a very good story. Elden Ring also has a very good story, it's just that its narrative requires a bit more attention to details to fully unravel and understand the game's lore, compared to traditional narration where it pretty much spoon-feeds you the lore. Not that i'm saying the traditional narration is bad. It's used all the time for a good reason, after all.

[@chestbuster1987]

Fallout 4 did this to some extent with the logs you could find in various dungeons. I sort of enjoyed learning the dark backstories of those areas that way.

[@TheUnzeal]

Really impressed with how much Asmon knows about the Fromsoftware games. I loved all the DS series but Bloodborne hit the nail in the coffin for me. Both with atmosphere and lore, plus the trick weapons are really something I miss. But Elden ring went beyond that for me. The atmosphere, the lore on items and weapons/armor, the small and hidden quests you find here and there, and the majestic view when you stand on egde of a mountain, looking at everything. Elden Ring gave me a fantastic adventure and iam looking forward for more in that universe, how big or small.

[@j0nnyism]

Isn’t hitting the nail in the coffin a bad thing?

[@Laroac]

7:50 Sure, but your example is perfect to show that for great story telling/religion/art, there have to be overt points that pretty much everyone gets AND sublte points. Sure evryone can get different things out of the same religious text but there are pillars that almost everyone agree on.

[@tbone007]

I mean you could just as easily say that all this is is just great atmosphere

[@shatteredgod69]

in my opinion there should be 2 separate categories regarding this, one of for best storytelling/lore and one for best narrative. I'll be that guy and say that Elden ring don't deserve the best narrative, but could def get the best lore

[@varvolgyibeni4398]

i feel like a elden ring doesnt really deserve the nomination for best narrative, bcz good story telling also requires you to tell that story well. if it is obscure and u need to watch 50 vaati vids to understand half of it then no matter how good it is it was conveyed in a pretty bad manner. there is a better way to tell stories than through thousands of item descriptions

[@varvolgyibeni4398]

i would be content with elden ring winning GOTY and GOW ragnarok winning best narrative

[@marc789]

dark soul 3 abyss watcher has one of the best story wise fight for me. first time you come in you see two of them fighting, you can assume that they fight each other for fun. but when you take time and look for detail you see that one that get killed in the cinematic has the red eye that mean corruption from the abyss. now we see that there is two side. the corrupted and non-corrupted, one fighting to stop the abyss and to other to spread/destroy but the bell of awakening keep bringing them back to life. after the cinematic you can hear the bell and one abyss watcher will rise to fight you. 20 to 30 second another bell ring and this time a corrupted abyss watcher rise to fight anyone. if you look at their armor you can see some abyss corruption on the bottom of their cape. like the saying goes "if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss also gaze unto you. some of their member got corrupted by the abyss and before your arrival they are locked in a perpetual fight to keep their fallen member in check.

[@imperialtutor8687]

The core strength of from software games is that the story is not told directly but in fragments that the player has to piece together. When I was playing GOW I hated how formulaic and basic the plot felt. It really did feel like another marvel/Disney movie while when I play games like elden ring I am in this enchanted realm that has lore strewn all about that is hidden by characters that you meet along the way who are not sharing their story willingly. It’s up to the player to piece together A story not the story.

[@mizumuncher5809]

20:40 a fun fact about fighting soul of cinder is each new game he gains a new move that he uses to kick your teeth in

[@trust3474]

does he really?

[@mizumuncher5809]

@@trust3474 yes he does, he can use almost every spell and can use every weapon type too in the later new games

[@trust3474]

@@mizumuncher5809 could you provide an example? I haven't beaten him past NG+1

[@mizumuncher5809]

@@trust3474 he used spells like "soothing sunlight" instead of just "great heal" and you can tell very clearly. he also does the backflip with the curved sword in order to stun you.

[@TSpoon823]

edit: I clearly wrote this all before the first 5 minutes of the video 😂... Okay, can someone help me understand what's so complicated about the basic narrative of Elden Ring? It's actually right in the opening cutscene. There are countless layers to it that you have to find on your own rather than having it spoon fed to you through guided dialogue. But the premise and narrative is pretty straight forward. Elden Ring shattered. Demi Gods scattered and in stalemate. The world is abandoned. And now the Tarnished gets to rise to power and put it all back together as you see fit. There's obviously more to it than that and the game gives you a lot more with just a few npc encounters and quests. people act like it has no story at all or doesn't tell you anything at all. No, people just didn't pay attention in the slightest. Not the game's fault. If you want to get into the crazy deep lore, sure that's harder to uncover. But there's still a compelling narrative present in this game. Is it worth an award? Idk. But it's still really good.

[@LEWIS1992]

LOVED the Souls series since the release day of the original PS3 Demon's Souls. But the stories are basically non-existent. Terrible narratives.

[@LastSider]

I was laughing the hell off when I heard Elden Ring as best narrative.

[@jerthon1]

I am sorry but none of that is narrative, Nothing I have seen for darksouls or Elden ring can be considered Narrative The definition of Narrative is "a SPOKEN or WRITTEN account of connected events" does it have a great atmosphere? yes. Does it have lore yes, but atmosphere and lore doesn't = Narrative. Not saying Elden ring is bad but Best Narrative?? what Narrative?

[@kievitz]

Game journos are all about "modernism" and "gender" issues.

[@UngratefulBeast]

starscourge radahn mastering gravity magic to not hurt his steed nominates elden ring to be game of the year.. i haven’t seen or heard anything more touching or humane in my life

[@adjuchasbrokk8033]

The biggest problem with Elden Ring's story is that when playing it paying attention I could tell where parts were rewritten/repurposed, like Frankenstein's monster.

[@johnrm0766]

For instance?

[@adjuchasbrokk8033]

@@johnrm0766 Wraiths/Revenants, Death rite birds, Rosus, the death warden guy, the crucible and its knights and why they are Godfrey's knights, none of it gels together its clear the story went through multiple rewrites and bits got left behind.

[@stefanmds4684]

To me, the Majula theme from DS2 is the most beautiful and perfect music any hub area has ever had. It's comforting but still a bit eerie.

[@xud6405]

Narrative is about telling a story to the player which elden ring didn't had much. In games, player often is the creator of the story, as a result require specific types of games for good narrative to work other wise you end up with FF situation. I don't think elden ring is one of them, so lack of narrative is not a bad thing.

[@Zara-ub7hc]

while elden ring didnt have a traditional narrative to it or storytelling aspect, the worldbuilding/lore of the world is so rich and interesting that i'd actually prefer the players try to piece together the story themselves and learn along while exploring and discovering the world. It makes it more immersive imo and you get lost(positive) in the the world more.

[@neridia]

@@lukile3296 Yep, the constant reminders of who's evil, who's good, and what you should do and why... NPC people meme is real, I swear to God.