Astarion Refuses Cazador's Ritual - The Best Scene in the Whole Game [ Release BG3 ]

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

2:26 Astarion never said he can't derive physical pleasure from sex.... he simply stated that most of his thousands of sex partners he had to seduce "didn't even grant me temporary bliss!" meaning that as time passed, it became a chore and he couldn't even get off on it which would've granted him some few moments of ecstasy to take his mind off things. Remember, he also said that at first he tried to seduce only people he found personally attractive, to make it easier. But as time went on he didn't even bother anymore, he seduced the beautiful and the ugly alike, just to fill his quota of victims for Cazador. He'd gone numb. He didn't have intimacy with those people, he simply performed physical sex. Aatarion told Tav that being intimate with Tav is "different" (because he loves Tav and is being loved), even though the act still feels "tainted" by bad memories that trigger guilt. But he does seem to enjoy the physical side of sex provided that he is given the freedom and agency to decide _when_ he feels like it. His trauma does _not_ derive from having been raped, (he never mentions that), but from being forced to prostitute himself. If he didn't have a flirty nature he wouldn't have developed that flirtiness as a protective persona. He does admit he is vain and misses being able to preen in front of a mirror, too. But real intimacy means being vulnerable... he fears that vulnerability and fears being taken advantage of. Not the sex act itself. He certainly isn't asexual. As an Ascended Vampire Lord he goes all in on the wild parties and debauchery, if we go by the cut content post-endbattle lines from Withers.

[@ataucei]

Yeah, he is no ace, pretty sure Neil mentioned on a stream the Astarion is pansexual

[@mad_pac-man]

THIS! He has sexual trauma, but that doesn't make him asexual, or sex repulsed. He just can't do it...just to do it. With Tav(and Halsin if you so desire) it is different. There is meaning behind it. I'd say he may be demisexual to an extent, because of his trauma, but he is very much into sex when it matters.

[@Heroann]

This pretty much sumarizes it perfectly. Astarion is not sex repulsed or asexual by any means. He loves it and he loves being with someone he loves while having it. Just because its tainted does not mean it can't be satisfying.

[@adnaP_esreveR]

​​@@mad_pac-man That's actually what I assumed playing the game. Demi or not though, he clearly wants there to be a connection. He's probably more honest about his feelings when unascended.

[@mad_pac-man]

@@adnaP_esreveR A LOT of people think otherwise

[@leevie8335]

i actually like how they went with a more pared-down look for cazador, compared with how he looked before. this whole game, and throughout your romance with astarion, you keep hearing about his cruelty, his "diabolical" plans, and in the end you meet him and he's just...some guy. some old, cruel, horrendous asshole who can be killed just like anything else. all of his power is, in the end, a performance. (personally) having grown up in a bad home, that sort of presentation hits me as very fitting, although i am DEFINITELY biased haha

[@Mmogurl]

No, I appreciate the different take. I think for me, I'm just so used to how he looked before so the new version felt kind of bleh.

[@domenceuspriest]

Agreed. There is something valuable in showing that abusers can look pretty... normal. It's about their actions and how they manipulate those in their care. (On a personal note, Cazador's look felt a bit Asian to me, which hit me heavily because of my history with Asian parents...)

[@Isus24-s8e]

@@mlj3347Fr tho. There are many real stories about ''completely normal'' neighbours ending up being serial killers etc. You think you might know people close to you yet you don't.

[@IllegalCake]

Yes, this 100%. Everyone would talk about how nice she was -- how sweet. She would never hurt anyone...!

[@liminalhaunt]

@@MmogurlI get it. But the more I see of him in the final product, the more petty and unremarkable he becomes, in stark contrast to Astarion who at this point is just…gorgeous, deeply emotional, capable of change. Caz is dusty and plain, incapable of evolving; an embodiment of “the banality of evil” who still thinks he deserves to rule everything and everyone around him. If Astarion didn’t kill him, Caz would eventually end up screwing himself over with his hubris, ritual be damned.

[@mortaeus7274]

I kind of feel like Astarion uses sexuality as a self-defence mechanism. He seems to default to flirtatious innuendo whenever he is uncomfortable or upset and trying to hide it. So my thinking is his "second most satisfying thing" is more of a smokescreen than anything else. A fun, playful line that he throws out to try and detract from the seriousness of the situation and his own discomfort.

[@domenceuspriest]

Agreed. It's both in how he reverts to sexuality and flirting to deflect and in his body language. They brought so much nuance to Astarion as a character - it's an amazing performance but also really hard-hitting for how realistic it is.

[@zoegroark9567]

this is how i read it too. He's in the place of his torture, and is intensely vulnerable physically and emotionally at the moment - saying something flirty to undercut the seriousness of the situation would be... intensely in character, and very in-line with what he was forced into doing for... centuries within the castle. geez.

[@abbeyBominable123]

If you free Astarion from Cazador FIRST, and THEN you do the sexy stuff with the drow twins, he is actually into it but comments on how he is finally able to do the thing he likes with his own agency. If you do the drow twins stuff before freeing him, he disassociates from the scene and is not into it as much.

[@isbammoi3358]

Hmm, that's not how I read it. He still seems out of it and upholding a pretense. Like he genuinely thought he was ready, but didn't realize just how strong and lasting of a hold his trauma still has on him.@@abbeyBominable123

[@domenceuspriest]

@@abbeyBominable123 Interesting. For me, he refused before resolving Cazador. He agreed to after, but the narration implies that he's not okay with it (both in Ascended and non-Ascended)

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

As an old (A)D&D player, I agree that Astarion is Chaotic Neutral. He talks tough, but doesn't actually go around murdering people for kicks or dark gods, only for self-preservation; yes, he steals, that's what Rogue do in D&D, but he's just as fine with talking his way out of a potential fight. In fact Astarion with his Charlatan background will gain an Inspiration point early in Act 1 if he or anyone else in your group scares the adventurers group outside the abandoned chapel into running off without a fight; the Charlatan achievement is called "Cheesing Your Way Though". He has a soft spot for helping the downtrodden and will approve of it. Even with the tieflings in Act 1, what Astarion disapproves of is Tav offering Zeflor help without any reward promised in return. He objects to Tav making the tieflings' problems with the druids our problems too (by agreeing to go talk to Kagha on Zeflor's behalf) when at that point our characters' main goal should be finding a healer to remove the tadpoles. Lae'zel agrees. Astarion actually likes the little rogues-in-training tiefling children when you let them him talk to Mol and the others. What he (as a Neutral character) objects to is getting dragged into other people's problems (tieflings vs druids) without his consent and without proper recompense. It's a mercenary mindset. This is what players call "selfish". But in real life, that's how most people live their lives: They first care about the wellbeing of themselves and their families and friends, not some random strangers. Yes, there are people who volunteer to help refugees or donate to charities (although the mega-rich often donate for the tax offset purposes), more power to them, but they do that because it makes them feel good about themselves. But when you look at the situation from the viewpoint of a person living in a pseudo-.medieval D&D world full of monsters and evil gods, it's the player character who is the anomaly. As players playing a VRPG, we are used to going around and "selflessly" offering our help to any random NPC (and then pocketing the loot after we've slain the antagonists), _because that is what we the players play the game for!_ We are quick to offer our character's time and effort, to endanger our character's life, make those adventurers track around trackless wilderness and dank dungeons, because for us sitting on a chair in front of a computer monitor it's no effort at all. Astarion however has (as he tells us) _never_ received help from _anyone_ when he needed help. Not even the gods answered his prayers pleading for salvation! Noone ever helped _him_ out of the goodness of their heart. Noone ever said a kind word to _him._ He can't remember ever having had a friend! What the past 200 years and his short life prior to that taught him is that (in his worldview), the powerful will dominate the weak, altruism is a lie, and people will try to use you for their own gain if you let them. So he only looks out for himself. But ultimately, Astarion _never betrays the group_ when he could easily have had a storyline where he betrays the group by siding with the Absolute because he wants to keep the tadpole's advantages, or some such! At a certain point he comes out and admits he has been lying and manipulating you into being on his side _because he needed a protector and was scared._ And you can see why: As a vampire spawn he is effectively treated by society as an "unperson" who can be enslaved or murdered by anyone at any time and no servants of the Law or holier-than-thou paladins will care. His Neutral worldview is best summed up by the remark Astarion makes at the tiefling party at our camp in Act 1, where he complains how being feted as a hero makes him feel awful. And also bored. If we tell him at least he enjoyed the bloodshed eradicating the goblin camp, he chuckles, but then shrugs and says "We killed some goblins to save some tieflings. Ultimately, the balance of lives was not effected much." Which ironically mean he values everyone the same... goblins, tieflings, humans, it doesn't matter to him... instead of classing some sentient creatures as "real people" and others as "monsters". Sure, he values his own life higher than anyone else's at that point in the story. But he is just as willing to go along with killing or saving as long as he can sink his teeth into someone to briefly satiate the unsatiable unceasing painful bloodthirst gnawing in his stomach. If Astarion becomes the Vampire Ascendant, he slips from Chaotic Neutral not into Chaotic Evil but into Neutral Evil, as is often the progression. Yes, he is evil because he now instrumentalizes others without guilt or remorse and talks about conquering Baldur's Gate by scheming and politics. He's now Neutral instead of Chaotic because he now plans ahead in terms of centuries instead of doing whatever his whims tell him to do from moment to moment, as his paranoia forces him to consider everyone around him in categories of "useful tool", "ally / consort" or "potential enemy I have to neutralize lest they kill me". But when you compare Ascended Vampire Lord Astarion to, say, the Red Wizards of Thay or Sarevok and BG3's Triumvirate of the Absolute, or the Chaotic Evil Lich Sorcerer Xykon from the D&D webcomic 'The Order of the Stick', thern Ascended Astarion is comparatively harmless. Sure, he talks big about ruling the city from the shadows, and he plans on making his own vampire spawn thralls which is nasty. But he doesn't start bloody wars or sacrifice thousands to a cult of murder gods, he doesn't want to corrupt the cosmic order or unleash a monster that can unmake reality itself. Nope, if we go by htecut content ending narration from Withers, Ascended Vampire Lord Astarion spends his time either traveling the Sword Coast with his "bloody consort" "tasting everything life has to offer", or spends his days and nights throwing grandiose parties filled with debauchery in Cazador's former palace, with Astarion holding court over the creatures of the night and the local nobility. Parties that become the stuff of legend and ballads... oh certainly a few people will die during those parties, sucked dry by vampires. People will shiver hearing those ballads... and then clamour to receive an invitation.

[@FinalFrankie]

“He has a soft spot for helping the downtrodden” but disapproved every time I gave money to help people lol

[@LooneyClipse]

Idk i see points being made 😮 You never have to suck his dick to be on Astarions good side really, after the he tells you about his manipulations and actual feelings, he just wants a friend. So it feels like you didnt read a word, imagine being 200 year slave, you would change for the worse in some capacity if not entirely. Him not wanting to be with a goody two shoes MC just makes sense by amount of power the party holds. Being much more vary at act 1 than act 3 depending, he wants security if he teams up with anyone. And eventually even emotional security. Dont see why some people get so 1 dimensionally upset even if its just stating how game is written. Unless you hate good character development 😢

[@LooneyClipse]

​@@FinalFrankiehe doesnt for me 😅

[@atomictsarina4378]

@@FinalFrankie Untrue. At the beginning of act 3, you have the best example you are wrong :) No matter if you give the coins or the food to Yenna - he will approve both things.

[@FinalFrankie]

@@atomictsarina4378 In that one instance sure, but have you tried giving gold to other refugees? Or donating gold to that building where they collect supplies for refugees? Any chance I had to donate gold he disapproved every time, except with that one first kid. Relax tho I still love him.

[@beverlymartin5837]

I think the "bad ending" of this scene did a great job of driving home the idea that, while cazador might deserve to be sacrificed in the ritual, astarion's own humanity deserves better than to do that to someone; Cazador's too dangerous to be allowed to live but for astarion's own sake it's better to do it quickly and move on

[@Mmogurl]

I haven't seen the bad ending because it was physically impossible in this game for me, but hopefully I'll get to see it another time. I'll have to try being more agreeable to it instead of always being the good birdie on his shoulder lol.

[@beverlymartin5837]

@@Mmogurl I think if any of the "siblings" die in the cazador fight then it removes the possibility of astarion ascending, so that might be what happened!

[@PinkMarshmallows]

@@beverlymartin5837 It does. That happened to me, and during the fight Astarion yelled at me. 😖

[@seras1231]

​@Mmogurl please go back and try for the bad ending. Lol I would love to see your thoughts on it❤

[@seras1231]

​@Mmogurl did you see the skull in the dungeon?

[@yas_lana]

I am very very convinced that Rooney talked with survivors (esp of narcissistic parents) and professionals in the field when writing Astarion and Cazador. He did such a good job. Regarding hugging him after he killed Cazador... I don't know I feel he needed this moment, this release. Sometimes you need to give people the space to feel and to cry and to rage.

[@ElizaPeron]

Seeing the screen at 12:01 it's visible that one of the spawn actually died in the fight. That is the reason Astarion doesn't even consider the ritual because one of the spawn dying simply makes it completely impossible.

[@metarra]

Thank you for pointing this out. I clicked this video wondering how they got him to not have to be talked out of ascension, and this confirmed that it's because ascension was not possible with a spawn dead.

[@moona_ttv]

The answer I was looking for. Cuz I always had to persuade. Though my last 2 play throughs I let him ascend. (But scum saved on the second one lol 😂 so I can get the non ascension ending) ❤

[@cinnamoncookie739]

I don't like "i will fix him" trope towards Astarion. He just need support, love, patiience and a good example. There was good in him but hidden under cope strategies and trauma. Romance with Astarion is the most emotional, rewarding and satisfying expirience I've had with media in YEARS

[@Mmogurl]

Yeah, like I said even in this video.. He does it on his own with just the nudge and support from Tav. I agree completely about the relationship, digital as it is, being satisfying as well!

[@scully4life]

I agree. There's a difference between wanting to "fix" someone, and being there for them and loving them while they "fix" themselves. Astarion, especially, doesn't see himself as anything but a monster, until Tav's love for him shows him that he's something more than that. If you succeed in persuading him not to do the ritual he talks about this later, and I know it's something the Astarion haters will never see, which is a shame.

[@domenceuspriest]

@@scully4life Exactly. Showing someone love and care, and giving them a safe place to be so they can work on healing (that they want to do but haven't had a chance to do) is different from "fixing" someone. I really like his reflections after Cazador, because he's so uncertain and not-suave - he can't rely on his facade because this is completely different from the place he's been emotionally before. And he's practicing emotional honesty, which is messy and unsure, and that's beautiful to see. One interaction that stood out to me (spoilers for people who haven't seen the Drow): When you don't force Astarion to bite the Drow woman, he actually looks surprised. That's just respecting his boundaries and letting him make choices about what he wants to do, and he's genuinely surprised that you do that for him. That's not "fixing" him - that's showing him basic decency, and it's something he just hasn't had any of for 200 years. And as someone who grew up without having healthy boundaries respected by parents and others, that hit me hard (in a good way).

[@scully4life]

@@domenceuspriest Oh yeah, the Drow encounter really nailed down Astarion's self-image issues. I hope there's some content exploring this for characters that don't romance him. Otherwise, it's very easy for people to just believe that he really is the facade that he puts forward to protect himself, which is very sad.

[@isbammoi3358]

Oh gosh yes, 100% yes. People bringing up all the "Twilight-loving" "I can fix him fanatics" stuff drives me CRAZY lmao. I'm like, is it fun being so shallow by stepping only ankle deep into the stream? I just sigh and move on, they'll never know I guess, what a shame.

[@sophiacousland3452]

In my opinion I believe that Astarion crying immediately after Cazador dies is because of two reasons. I think it’s a mix of mourning everything he had lost over the centuries and relief that the monster who tormented him for years was gone, that he was finally free. As for Cazador’s death, I’ve been waiting for him to be torn to ribbons. 😈

[@ShevaSmash]

"Researchers have established that crying releases oxytocin and endogenous opioids, also known as endorphins. These feel-good chemicals help ease both physical and emotional pain."

[@jooheonshoneybal]

Exactly!

[@HBoothe]

Yeah more this, it feels like he overwhelmed..imagine being in that moment.

[@LyDragoness]

Damn, Astarion's quest line broke me. It took me a couple of days to recover emotionally. Incredible writing and performance, the scene where he stabs Cazador is just so visceral and raw, but it was really a cathartic moment. When you finally remove the abuser from the picture, everything that you kept inside up to that moment comes crashing down, and you are just left feeling numb. And despite everything, there is also this blooming feeling of hope, you are now free to look at the future and start to heal. Which I think is expressed even better afterward. The scene in the cemetery is my absolute favorite with him, when the music kicked in I started sobbing. It's such a bittersweet ending and it's perfect. It shows how there will always be scars and consequences from experiencing abuse (I think the fact that he won't be able to walk in the sun again is an allegory to this), but at the same time, it's full of hope for the future.

[@Mmogurl]

Yeah this scene really hit me hard because I went through the whole spectrum of emotions with it. I felt just about every feeling there is while watching this performance and that's why I say it is hands down the best scene in the game. And yeah, the scene afterwards kind of surprised me too.. I wasn't sure if I was expecting another romance scene or what.. but I'll save that commentary for the video xD

[@lufasumafalu5069]

are you being hyperbolic here ? if you really cry and sob over this then you should check why you so weak mentally

[@isbammoi3358]

I THINK the song that plays there is even called, 'I Want to Live', if I'm remembering the songs that plays at that moment right. Makes me VERY emotional as well

[@LyDragoness]

@@Mmogurl Looking forward to your next video 😊 If you'll have the time to come back and speak more in debt about the dialogues after you meet Sebastian I'd be really curious to hear your take. Honestly, it was really hard to go through those dialogues and I have a lot of thoughts. My heart broke for both my Tav and Astarion, especially if you choose to push him into a corner during the conversation telling him "Admit it, you would've killed me" and he just looks you dead in the eyes and tells you "I would've killed you". Damn, I was feeling sick to my stomach, the whole situation is so f*cked up and he wasn't even responsible, he was forced to do it. On the other hand, I imagine the mix of emotions a Tav who's romancing him could feel with all those revelations. I also really felt for Sebastian, poor man 💔😭 he really wasn't that different from Tav... As you said, I went through the spectrum of all the emotions humanly possible between those dialogues and the ending.

[@LyDragoness]

@@isbammoi3358 Yes, that's the song! The lyrics version is beautiful, I think it really suits Astarion

[@_TheWomble]

This scene really stuck with me, as a kid with a narcissistic abusive mother, the language Cazador uses to push Astarion to react was very reminiscent of the things I would hear in the home. Playing through this was tough but honestly feel it's one of the best scenes in the game.

[@illythriah793]

Same. And agree. Truly so realistic. *hugs to you too*

[@grounekow]

Ditto

[@konnyatzen4008]

You can actually free Astarion with the help action during the fight. This also ends the ritual and you have more time to fight Cazador.

[@Smulenify]

You can also just attack Cazador without talking to him, or approach him with Astarion still on the stairs and that prevents Cazador from starting the ritual at all-- but everything after beating him remains the same. On my last playthrough one of Cazadors goons accidentally killed one of the spawns in the ritual, he did comment on it mid fight but seemed surprisingly calm for someone who just got their centuries long plan ruined.

[@cadenadelreino1442]

You can also just use the disguise spell 👀🤷🏼‍♂️

[@LishiePoo]

Mannn I wish I knew this sooner. I ended up cheesing the fight cause Astarion kept DYING haha

[@gutsysparkles2584]

I always just push him off the edge lol 😂

[@Floraensn]

You can just cast Daylight on yourself, get as close to Cazador as possible without triggering the cutscene. He will then start losing 20 HP every few seconds. Just before he dies you can trigger the cutscene and oneshot him 😅

[@fidelisforhirex]

Neil Newbon KILLED it in this scene. Amazing. I heard a rumor he got it in one take. Legend.

[@misamimoon9578]

The voice actor Neil Newbon done a fantastic job and i don't think i have heard a voice actor as amazing as him. He is just amazing and i cant wait to finish my playthrough with BG3 :D

[@domenceuspriest]

He is amazing, and seems like a wonderful human being too. So much skill in bringing Astarion to life - apparently he did the stabbing scene in one take and it was perfect.

[@asmalltalk]

if we don't get a 50 hour long Astarion exclusive DLC then I'm rioting. the person or team at Larian who wrote Astarion's story, his voice lines, who hired Neil... all these people deserve a raise, and Neil every damn award possible.

[@Tom-ld6le]

Yeah, you got the no-option-to-do-the-ritual version because you killed one of the other spawn. You can see on the minimap at 12:01 that you're missing one of the remaining 6 NPCs who have to be alive for the ritual to be even an option.

[@princessofbalance]

I think making Cazador small is to show that you don't have to be intimidating to wield power. also reflects his miserable character

[@elafacwen8176]

I chose to release them, and had a bit of a jarring giggle after this super emotional scene imagining my Drow Tav just going....*wipes hands* "welp, they are the underdark's problem now."

[@scully4life]

Haha, yeah after he said to send them to the Underdark, I was like, hmmmm... I'm not sure how my Drow Tav feels about that... oh well!

[@t3chnowitch995]

Drow give zero shits. My Llolth-sworn Tav sent them to the Underdark, as well, and all I could think was that he was going "Menzo is going to finally be interesting when this is all over!"

[@elafacwen8176]

@@t3chnowitch995 "shouldn't have wished to lived in more interesting times"

[@t3chnowitch995]

@@elafacwen8176 7000 vampire spawn is a much more manageable issue than a brand new swarm of super squids.

[@aquadraws5833]

I imagine my half drow tav just being like “tell my bastard dad I said hi 🙂”

[@Anxiousheart7]

Re the ‘honk’ question - I interpreted it in a few different ways. This quest comes at what has been a period of time of self-reflection for Astarion. It’s been some time in-game since their conversation at moonrise (weeks maybe?) and he’s figuring out both his feelings for Tav and how he feels about himself. We know this from our chats, when you ask him what he thinks the two of them are together - “…whatever could we be?” He’s on the cusp of realising that he’s in love with Tav, but it’s complicated by his own journey. He’s had to take a step back from that world he was in before - the habit and practice of being a seducer and the mechanical practice of ‘honk’ without the connection and intimacy that comes with it. We get two chances to honk early game as part of his plan and he calls it ‘different’ in his confession scene. It already feels intimate for him and also alien. This is the first time he’s not being compelled by someone else to do this in 200 years - he’s taking the helm himself, even if it is in the form of his seducer persona initially. Cazador’s palace itself is like one large therapy session for him - not conventional therapy I grant you - since there’s more weapons and hellish rituals involved. But this arc does a lot for Astarion and addresses a few things here: - he has to face the use of his body and his sexuality for Cazador’s ends. Via being confronted by Sebastian and by destroying the man himself. This rocks his world and he has to both take accountability for his actions and also get a wake up call that this is what the vampire ascendent will perpetuate. - there’s also an element of generational trauma going on here. When you find Vellioth’s skull it tells you a lot about he treated and shaped Cazador. In many ways he’s passed that same trauma and cruelty to his ‘children’. This journey is not just about Astarion discovering his ability to rule his own life, but it’s also about ending that cycle of cruelty for good. - Astarion has acknowledged previously that honk with Tav does feel different to him and he does enjoy it, but he can’t right now while he’s going through this. He’s reconfirming that here. It’s just very complicated and a long process of healing for him, as it is for anyone. - I noticed something here too - his tone of voice isn’t like the exaggerated flirty voice he would do when he was shielding himself. It was the lighter, more genuine voice he uses when he’s opening up with Tav. It’s a vocal signifier that he feels safe and secure in showing that to Tav without the risk of any punishment. Something else we learn via the journals and notes we find in the palace is that he was put down for his personality - his jokes and quips. Astarion is a funny person and when he feels ok to do it, he’ll make a joke or lighthearted observation. This comment feels like him letting that personality out a little, again because he feels safe doing that with Tav. - there’s some other stuff post-quest that isn’t included here so I won’t go into it, but several conversations happen that signify his growth and healing progression at the end of this which feel very cathartic and hopeful for him to continue his healing journey. That said, I don’t know if the ‘second most satisfying’ line appears in this quest if you aren’t in a relationship with him. But my (very long) answer is that I don’t think it was intended as an out of place line but a vocal marker to show that he’s making some progress in himself and is ready to move forward and conclude this horrible chapter of his life. Healing in real life is long, arduous, and non-linear. Some days you can be fine and some days you can be right back there in the midst of it all. It’s a testament to how well he was written that we see that in how he speaks and the range of emotions bubbling under the surface.

[@Deren98]

I loved this ending for him. Very catharctic, especially if you are a victim yourself.

[@omaew]

At the prison cell,There are tons of dialogue branches if you told him "you can save them " One of my fav choice is "In another life, you'd have led me to this crypt, and not that pretty clearing in the forrest". To which he eventually agreed he'd have killed you. That covo alone is the only reason I decided to release all the spawns against my good judgement. A very powerful writing.

[@seras1231]

The first time I did this boss fight, I accidentally knocked Cazador off the edge and killed him with no damage. It is still my favorite way to do that fight lmao

[@scully4life]

Yes! I had a hasted Astarion use a Telekinesis scroll to yeet him off the edge, because I felt like he deserved to be the one to do it. It was very satisfying. Plus, after he throws him out of the coffin, I got the impression that he enjoys throwing him, lol.

[@hauntedshadowslegacy2826]

@@scully4lifeThe word 'yeet' comes to mind.

[@scully4life]

@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 It was the best yeet moment of that game 😂

[@thecheck968]

That's *pretty* good, but I had a pretty cool fight myself. Astarion was down to 4hp, had only one bonus action left, and only a 40% chance of hitting him. I switched to him, he said "can you feel death's cold grip?" and then just barely got the final hit on Cazador with an extra dagger he had on him. Almost more satisfying than him throwing Cazador to the ground. Almost.

[@domenceuspriest]

"There's always going to be a part of him in me." -- This hurts a lot because it's so true for many people who've survived abuse by a family member (especially a parent). This whole arc, and these scenes, are seriously some of the best I've ever seen in video games thanks to the amazing acting (Neil Newbon is such a professional and a wonderful human being), animation, and writing. I've seen so many people resonating with these scenes because of how true this is. Absolutely amazing - so glad you got to experience this! To add: I've seen some good explanations online about why many people in Astarion's situation wouldn't react well to a hug or other touch imposed on them. He just went through a huge amount of catharsis, and it's violent and overwhelming, emotionally and sensorily. To have someone, even a loved one, impose physical contact in that moment would not have been safe or welcome. It's frustrating to watch and not be able to comfort someone in this situation, but it seems to be appropriate. Yet another thing I appreciated about how they write these scenes - they seem to really understand the emotional dynamics of abuse and survivors.

[@TOchick]

i LOVED the redemption of Astarion and how you can hear the pain in his voice after he stabbed the shit out of Cazador! Oh man... him just crying out after it was done shook me to my core. I won't lie I sobbed a little bit after that but man it was so satisfying to kill that monster and save my baby boi. Oh man this scene was just a master piece Neil did such a great job. Just a quick tip you don't have to kill Cazador in 3 rounds to save Astarion. I dimension doored over to him and used the help action and got him back into combat. He didn't die when the rounds were up either. Make the fight much easier than trying to KO Cazador in 3 rounds. Plus if you free him during the combat Cazador and him have dialog while you're fighting which is cool.

[@porcupinester]

To add to this comment for another strategy, I kept my Astarion unlinked from the party and hid him on top of the stairs going into the battle, then had my other three party members up front to start the convo. This will keep Astarion from getting placed in the ritual and allow him to participate from afar.

[@TOchick]

AND wow this game! Your scene is different than mine! I had to pass some skill checks to convince Astarion not to do the ritual!

[@nocturna76]

@@TOchick yes that's the way it normally works, the only reason she didn't have to pass the checks is because leon died during the fight, so it was no longer possible for astarion to ascend at all (thank goodness)

[@lacuna6139]

I think you must have killed one of the other spawn during the fight. I'm sure I read somewhere that if you do that it obviously removes the possibility of Astarion completing the ritual (and I can only see five other spawn in the scene with you). I think he just kind of accepts it if you have high enough approval, but leaves the party if its too low. Worth testing though. And this scene is just... it just blew me away. Such an emotional rollercoaster! If Neil doesnt win an award for his performance, then I'm going to grab the torches and pitchforks!

[@Mmogurl]

I don't think I killed one of the spawns because I hadn't touched any of them. I didn't even use any AOEs by them because I was focusing Cazador with magic missiles because he was so hard to hit otherwise. I'll go back and check though because now you have me curious. I agree he better win an award for that performance!! It was so good! I was just blown away by the feelings because it's not often that a video game can evoke that kind of response for me.

[@lacuna6139]

​@@MmogurlI did a quick comparison with another upload of the scene and you're definitely one spawn down, lol! (I think it's Leon, the guy with the long straight hair). Wonder how that happened if you didn't target them or use AOEs? Glitch, maybe? I can't wait to see if/how this affects your conversations back at camp. It does kind of take away from the nail-biting epicness of having to talk him down (IMO) but his acceptance of it is heartwarming and I wonder if there are changes to reflect that. Thanks for uploading! ❤

[@elishajones1286]

​@@MmogurlI went and checked my own upload of my game (my videos are set to private due to the nudity in act 1 and 3) and Leon is missing from your cutscenes.

[@scully4life]

@@Mmogurl It could have gotten bugged and flagged that the ritual was broken anyways. It's worth trying to get the persuasion check though, because the conversation later, where he thanks you for talking him out of it, is a real tear-jerker. Plus, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it in a video!

[@DeletedCalibrations]

Your game might have glitched or someone else might have killed the sibling, it was easy to miss. I didn't notice either till someone pointed out the dots on the map. You should do a dark urge Astarion run at some point. it brings out his caring side even more 🖤

[@firefox30570]

I think that cry is for the 200 years of loss that he will never get back, even if caz is dead. Hes finally free. But what he suffered was enormous. It is a cry of both relief and loss

[@isbammoi3358]

I would LOVE a video focusing on the stuff in Cazador's mansion. With you covering it, it would be SUCH a treat! And gosh yeah, the spawn. That's SUCH a tough and tragic choice. I really leaned towards freeing them at first, mostly to give the Gur and their kids a chance even if I felt there was little hope (and I don't want to give the chance of them draining their own family dry and loathing themselves). But there's something Astarion says to Ulma if you kill the spawn and just let him talk instead of doing one of the rolls that really convinces me killing them is the choice I'd rather make, as much as it wrenches my heart: "I have. I've stolen your last chance to see them, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Because anything else would mean sending you down into the dark. It'd mean showing you the hunger in your babes' eyes and leaving you with that terrible, final decision. I've visited enough pain on your people. The least I could do was spare you that."

[@grimdesire]

did you accidentally kill one of the spawns during the fight? it goes differently if you dont, you can pass a romance exclusive insight check to talk him down from completing the ritual

[@asmalltalk]

wait, really? you don't get the insight check option after which you can choose "the power will trap you like it trapped Cazador" when he's not romanced? that's quite surprising.. I thought it's always there after you explored the dungeon and found Cazador's master's skull.

[@scully4life]

@@asmalltalk It is always there. You still get an insight check if he isn't your romance partner, but the text is slightly different (look into your lover's eyes vs look into his eyes) and the roll is much harder to beat. But if you found the room with the black mass scroll and the skull of Cazador's master, and you beat the insight roll, you then get the line about the power trapping him like it did Cazador, regardless of whether you are romancing him.

[@TheDownables]

10:00 I think it's very important to make cazador look the way they chose to make him look. Most of the cruelest people and most cunning manipulators in reality are just little losers and from the outside looking in it's very easy to see that but when you're the one being manipulated it's very hard to see them for what they are. I think the model design was very intentional because it wanted to convey that cazador despite being physically imposing at times with his vampiric magic leveraged all of his strength through his ability to get inside of people's heads.

[@jMichaels878]

I think you must've killed one of the spawn during the battle so there was no option for him to ascend anymore. I made sure not to kill any of them, and so I got the scene where he has to choose, and I do think it's actually a bit more satisfying than not having the option to choose at all- if you've romanced him there's some pretty good unique dialogue options to snap him out of wanting to ascend. If you have time I recommend replaying this part without killing any of the spawn just to at least see those options because I actually enjoyed it more (and this is coming from someone who encouraged/wants him to be good the entire time). And even though you DO have to persuade him, I do think him not ascending is the "true"/ideal path his character is supposed to take- If he ascends, later on there is an insight check you can pass where your character can realize he partially resents you now for not talking him out of it and allowing him to become more like Cazador, whereas if you convince him not to ascend he later thanks you for stopping him and acting in the heat of the moment. So, even though he doesn't just default to not ascending of his own free will, the game does kind of imply that he just needs one final nudge/reminder that there's other things worth living for more than getting revenge on Cazador, and so it's satisfying getting to remind him of that.

[@UncleBalthazar12]

Yeah I enjoyed convincing him not to ascend too, more than not having the option. Its somehow more satisfying.

[@UncleBalthazar1]

If you have to persuade him and have romanced him there's some dialogue option like "in another life you might've led me here instead of to a pretty glen..." or something like that which was fun to pick lol

[@asmalltalk]

at which point is that insight check? the only one I saw is which shows you that you're degrading yourself when you allow him to turn you into his spawn. other than that he actually relishes in the fact that you allowed him to kill all those 7k people and is drunk on power and what he can do now, discovering new abilities, etc. he's offended when you imply later on that he's just like Cazador.

[@scully4life]

Also, there's an insight check during the scene that tells you he's basically not in his right mind in the moment, and he doesn't fully realize what he's trying to do.

[@asmalltalk]

@@scully4life yeah, that's the one I know of which when you pass it triggers the other persuasion option telling him the power would trap him . but I don't see what OP means by insight check showing he resents you for NOT talking him out of it.. that doesn't make sense.

[@drglamm]

I think the unassuming model they used for Cazador was very effective. When I first beheld him I thought, that's Astarion's big bad? Doesn't look like much. But then the dialogue and interaction happened. And his true evil nature burst forth and I think it was much more effective as a result.

[@milad2405]

Nobody can persuade me that ascended astarion is the way. Nothing felt better than the persuasion roll 'I want you to live a life you're proud of.' I was fucking bawling. Never in the history of games I actually received a dialog option which I could identify with as much as this one. The dialog afterwards in camp when he thanks you for saving him from himself was a chefs kiss on top🥹 his smile was different, he had the first truly happy smile in the whole game.

[@A_Sad_Panda]

It's actually pretty interesting because if you explore the area a bit more you can find what I'm assuming is Cazadors chambers or bedroom and you can see the bones of his previous master. If you interact with them it pretty much shows his previous masters thoughts of Cazador if I'm remembering correctly. I guess Cazador was treated the same way Astarion was thus creating the cycle of hate, evil and violence which is why I want to prevent Astarion from ascending even more. You can also use Detect Thtoughts on Cazador when he retreats to his coffin to heal and you can see that he's really just a scared man who seeks power, so he doesn't feel weak ever again, just like Astarion. :o

[@A_Sad_Panda]

It's really interesting to think that if you had known Cazador a long time ago, you could probably go down the same path as you do with your relationship with Astarion. Turn him back on the path of good.

[@samminicksm]

3:02 I think he’s trying to hide behind his flirtation and sex because he’s scared. He’s putting the mask back on that he’s mostly had off since his confession to wanting something real. He’s terrified of Cazador and he’s about to confront him like a child about to confront their abusive parent. He’s trying to put up a front. 11:00 I think that’s the point. Cazador’s slight frame and underwhelming appearance is meant to contrast the image of him Astarion paints for us but also justify how he’s kept the “best of Baldur’s Gate” public reputation for so long. It also enhances the sickness of the manipulation. All of his main 7 spawn are of either equal stature or larger (I mean build not literal height) than him and yet he commands them and manipulates them with ease. He doesn’t need to be physically imposing because his words do far more damage. He’s nearly crushed the spirits of those 7 with ease. 19:54 This happens if you’ve continuously questioned the morality of the ritual and tell him he’s better than that, that he’ll be the monster Cazador is if he just replaces them. That or the dialog around uncovering the meaning of the scars with Raphael where you talk about how diabolical the ritual is. Something convinces him that he’s more scared of the ritual making him a monster (something he’s always been scared of).

[@KittyRoyalty777]

2:57 I just see it as Astarion slipping into flirty behaviours he defaults to because its what he did for decades for Cazador. The scene of him shouting at Tav about not knowing how to say no highlights this. His been a slave for so long he actually doesn't know who he is as a person yet. Which makes it even more immersive that you can influence him to be bad or good.

[@Hale444]

If you end up killing one of the other spawn in the ritual while fighting Cazador it removes ascending as an option.

[@DierdreWolf]

This is a great dialogue, but this isnt he didnt 'want' to ascend. I'm with others - one of the spawns died and there wasnt an option for anything else. Bottom left of mini map at 12:06 the ritual spot is blank. It looks like the fire probably got them going off that part. And the spot behind Tav and Co at 23:06 is empty - there should be a spawn there

[@jooheonshoneybal]

Woah ty i didnt notice these

[@leahsavoie3528]

yep missing a spawn

[@jessiiii9000]

i really love the option to free the spawn, specifically after seeing what he says at camp afterwards if you kill them. (slight spoilers for that dialogue below) He questions if you two even had a right to take away the choice from all those 7 thousand people, how they couldve changed and turn for the better just like him. Hearing him say that was so unexpected but it was insanely satisfying to hear. I think it makes so much more sense narratively and as a parallel to his own story if you free them, because you are giving them a chance at a new life the same way astarion was given a chance and managed to start healing because he had someone who believed in him (tav) (in this case if you free them, you both believe they can be good and after you send them to the underdark, astarion agrees to the idea that he could be there too and guide them together with you which is such a wholesome full circle moment imo) (and at this point if some of the spawn do turn out to be vicious and harmful, as astarion already says, its on their own head. They are free and they can do whatever they want with their freedom, good or bad, in the end its their choice, just like how astarion can choose between killing all of them and ascending, or letting them live and trying to be better. FREEDOM BABYY)

[@justanothermaid]

Congratulations for actually redeeming him! This is likely the true course. He decides completely on his own.

[@Mmogurl]

Yes!!!! Oh it felt so good after dealing with all the naysayers for so long too! Like.. oh what was that you were saying about how he was evil and incapable of loyalty or openness?

[@RedTab0]

​@@MmogurlNo he did not choose on his own. He simply had no other choice. You killed one of his "siblings" and he had no way to complete the ritual. I know becouse I tried this option. If all of the spawn are alive, Astarion will want to complete the ritual. Next time try not to kill any of them, and you will have to convince him.🙂

[@RedTab0]

Rly? I saw only 5🤔

[@mistle_rat]

She killed a spawn in the left down corner that's why he can't complete the ritual and the system just goes for the only available option. He didn't choose it.

[@MarieCurtis92]

Killing the spawn or freeing the spawn is definitely supposed to be a morally grey decision, I think, though I heavily lean towards putting them out of their misery. The potential death wave Tav/Astarion can unleash here is staggering. I agree that this is some of the best (if not the best) acting in the whole game, and yes, it actually made me tear up too. I love that there's the potential in game to have Astarion absolutely refuse to ascend on his own, especially since there's so many people out there insisting he's an unredeemable bastard. Astarion can be cruel for sure, but he's not an unfeeling monster. Ascended Astarion on the other hand... He's a different story. Many people I see are arguing that Ascended Astarion is his real ending, but I think his story is more about breaking the cycle of abuse. Now that I have the game myself, I can't wait to see if I'll have to talk him out of ascending or if he'll do it on his own. The game's been a blast so far! Truly the best game I've played in years.

[@tinylordhelix]

The crying part kind of really hit home to me and reminded me of some stuff I'm still undoing the damage of 15 years later. I feel like it was a release of all the feelings he's stuffed deep down for so long mixed with a sense of relief that it's over. I have a similar trauma response where I mask my emotions, bottling them up to keep myself 'safe' until either they spill out or when I have the time alone to just sit with those feelings for as long as I can comfortably do so. I might be reaching at straws here, but it feels like an "it's finally over, I don't have to let the emotions under pressure keep building up" kind of cry and while I'd love for Tav to run and hug him during it, I feel like it's more cathartic for him to not have someone right on him at that moment because it would probably just be too overstimulating in a way and that feeling his feelings in that way needed to happen for him to let go of as much pain as he's been holding onto.

[@Louves192]

If you leave Astarion alone during the decision to free or kill the spawn he will always choose to free them. There is also an extra dialogue option during the final conversation (if you romance him)

[@Mmogurl]

Ooo interesting to know.. I'll have to try it in another game then to see.

[@MsMorri]

@@Mmogurl I think it's implied by the original commentor, but if you leave him alone to make his own choices, he will also decide not to do the ritual. When Tav is there, I think there's two things that are going on (assuming you haven't accidentally killed one of the spawn). I think it ties back to what he says after the 2nd confrontation with his siblings. "I'm doing this for you too you know. To make sure we're both safe. Forever. For good." I think Astarion is so scared that he'll lose Tav to the likes of Cazador, the ritual feels like a way he can control and protect the one person who has loved and cared for him. With you being there, it's a reminder of all he has to lose and since power is what he thinks will protect him, he is acting on instinct. If you do an insight check, it lowers the DC for the persuasion check, but you also see that no only is he scared, but the blood and environment is driving his desire. Take Tav and the others out, his fear goes down and he's able to think more clearly about the person he wants to be. I could be wrong here, but that's my interpretation.

[@pStabs]

Fantastic video! Thank you for this breakdown. Also good work doing this sort of review. It's not just clips. It's commentary!

[@ihcatih10]

About the weird red bodies of the spawns: it’s most likely a bug with their models. I assume they should appear here without shirts, revealing their own scars and that means their should have special body models. They just don’t load, causing this weird looking red body. Same thing happened to the dryad in the circus. Her whole body turned red after recent patch. I really hoped they’ll fix it by the time I start my second playthrough, it slightly ruined the moment for me. And yeah, I also wish that Tav who romanced Astarion could do something when he dropped down to his knees. I don’t think it was the best moment for a hug, but at least kneel beside him, damn it, don’t just stand there while your man is going through such a breakdown 😂

[@yoonglebellz]

11:00 I think it makes sense that Cazador isn't this visually intimidating villain to the player. Yes he is a monster in every way, but he is first and foremost Astarion's monster not because of how he looks or presents himself but what he's done. He also first showed up as a saviour in Astarion's past, and I can see how he might have looked trustworthy once.

[@scully4life]

A couple more things I wanted to add, based on how my playthrough went, if you free the spawn, he isn't sure if it's a good idea, but then in a later conversation he says that it was the right thing to do. I don't know if he also says that if you kill them. I couldn't bring myself to kill them because sparing them was the entire reason I was able to convince him not to do the ritual so it felt so manipulative and like a huge slap in the face to then turn around tell him to kill them all. Which brings me to the second thing, if you kill a spawn, it takes away the option for him to complete the ritual so he doesn't have a choice in the matter, which seems good because you don't risk failing the dice rolls, but then you miss out on a really beautiful conversation later where he thanks you, and he says things like "You believed in me" and that "I am enough, just as I am" and "You saved me from myself." That conversation made me cry. Again. lol.

[@SaltySojourn]

This was, without a doubt, the most emotional and amazing cut scene I've ever seen in a video game.

[@raechuu4887]

i just completed astarion's questline (the non-romanced version) the other day! 2:55 he has this same dialogue save for the "second-most satisfying" addition. i havent romanced astarion yet so i couldnt say for sure but yeah i do wonder if maybe there was some shifting around of his characterization and this line just kind of got left in anyway? i dont know. anyway i absolutely loved his personal quest so much, its so bittersweet and i adore that i really felt like we'd become good friends along the way (even if he still disapproves of me sometimes lol). i really enjoy your coverage of the romances in BG3! thank you so much!

[@raechuu4887]

also, i think i got lucky in my fight because he traveled to a perfect spot on the edge of the platform right at the beginning, so i just cast daylight as shadowheart to injure him and then hit him with thunderwave as my tav and knocked him off the edge in the first round. the rest of the enemies definitely almost kicked my butt, though

[@Mmogurl]

Thanks for that knowledge! I always wonder what is romance specific and what isn't. I really loved the whole track with Astarion and I am over the moon that I have not even touched the tip of the surface with this game! I am in romance heaven and will be for a long while! :D Not many games can give me such a huge amount of romance related stuff to cover and I love how even quests/scenes that aren't necessarily romantic, are impacted by the romance.. so in a way.. everything you do is affected by the romance. Very cool :D

[@bug-13]

This "ending" of him not wanting to ascend only happens because some other spawn got accidentally killed.

[@mumuma8450]

I don't think it's confussing to be honest. I imagine Astarion was just a natural flirt before being turned and well aware of his looks. As hegets more comfortable with Tav, it's easier for that side of his personality to just come back as a natural part of him and not a deliverate tool. I like the idea that he just amends that on the spot, because of his natural cheek. On a negative thought, he could also be nervous and just reverted back to thinking of those things as tools and feeling like he has to remind Tav of their sexual interactions in case she's thinking of bailing out of the mission. The more I think about it, there are a lot of angles to that dialogue. Since his body language is sort of natural and relaxed, I think he's just AStarion being our beloved AStarion. After all, abused people and asexual people flirt with their partners all the time as well.

[@AsaFrog-bx7xy]

As someone who grew up with a parent saying I was worthless and will never amount to anything, as well as other abusive things said and done to me. It really hurts and that phrase alone creeps up every now and then and just ruins me. I was instantly drawn to Astarion and the more I learn about his story, the more I actually feel for him. The trauma from abuse never goes away, especially when done from the beginning at a young age. It’s always there, lurking and waiting to pop up at any moment you feel even a little down.

[@jakobrose8278]

Sebastion the spawn does give hope as there is humanity that he appears to have held onto for well over a century. That's why I'd release them. I also found Astarion to be a truly good friend if you're willing to give him a chance and invest in him.

[@xrvidenx]

astarion crying made me tear up. from my pov, i see astarions "small" breakdown as him processing his emotions, i feel like he hasn't cried or let out his emotions IN CENTURIES and having finally killed cazador, as much as he wanted to kill him, finally overflowed and spilled his emotions, making him feel overwhelmed, and in someways he must feels scared as well, especially when you see him go weirdly quiet when raphael tells him what the mark on his back translates to and he even breaks out of it like "oh sorry.. was just.. in my own thoughts there" which must be very new to him as well

[@labmouse42]

If you play as Astarion, you can make a saving throw to resist Cazador and can join the fight with your allies from the start.

[@thantrus]

Neil Newbon deserves several awards for his performance.

[@ALEXA_beep]

I had such a hard time with this battle mainly because I rushed in with a lower level. I misty stepped next to Astarion and helped him out so he joined the battle, then thurwaved cazador off the cliff (after many other strategic tries). It was kinda funny to find cazador back in the coffin after seeing him fall off.

[@lmcgiglez]

Maybe the most satisfying thing he's implying is more the relationship itself, rather than any honksy moments. An actual loving, caring, and supportive relationship might seem very bizarre (to him) but ultimately very satisfying. Why can't there be an option where Astarion's siblings "adopt" the other spawn and help teach them instead of just being told to keep an eye on them - but only if they want to continue living as vampires. Maybe some of the prisoners (like the Gur) would rather cease to exist entirely or are too far gone to be saved, then they can be laid to rest as gently as possible.

[@The_Nightsong]

I nearly cried when he broke down after killing Cazador. I never let him finish the ritual and never will. Going through it would still tie him to Cazador in a way. But killing and then walk away, he's in control. He chooses to walk away instead of becoming what he hates. He still has a part of his soul left, and as long as he fights for that, Cazador will never truly have him. Going through the ritual would kill the last part of him that was never Cazadors.

[@LoreMaster007]

That is amazing to see. Knowing that playing the game can change outcomes so drastically. I love it.

[@jennifersmith-clark6418]

I agree with you about the Chaotic Neutral assessment of Astarion. This guy just got out of a situation whereby he was totally controlled by a truly evil person just days ago. A person who has taken away Astarion's ability to make any choices or value judgements of his own for more than three human lifetimes. Him even choosing to be made a vampire wasn't really much a of a value choice because at the time he was actively dying from a violent assault and funnily enough a situation where most people's faculties are a bit compromised. He didn't want to die and that is almost an instinctual choice would have made. Once Astarion was raised as a spawn he was humiliated, viciously tortured, and used as a Honeypot trap. They only things left to him that could have been a pleasure (food and sex) were also tainted. The food he was given was meant to be a degradation, watch any representation of Renfield from Dracula if you need to see how having to eat rats and bugs does for you. As for sex, he was essentially a prostitute and sex with no agency is no pleasure. Furthermore, there is no way he could form an attachment to any potential lover because they would all be turned over to be presumably killed whether he truly liked them or not. So his behavior in the game comes as no surprise to me. I cannot think of a worse personal hell than being made to do awful, evil degrading things and being a passenger in my own body unable to stop or do anything different. He has been removed temporarily from the Cazador situation but now in a new situation where there are a lot of unknowns and all he has besides his newfound ability to walk in the sun is his practiced skills of using his sexuality and deception to survive. Thinking a person is going to change the second they are given respite from their misery is extremely naive. They are in survival mode even still. A person who is Chaotic Evil has little regret for the harm they have caused others, speaking to Astarion for any length of time in the game and you find out regret is fundamental to his character. He regrets his actions while in Cazador's thrall, once he has been in your company for a time and grows to care for you he regrets using you as well. He buries a lot under sarcasm, jokes and sexual innuendo but that's all a mask. The thing is people tend to feel sympathy for what they perceive as saintly perfect victims, and he isn't one. He is an imperfect victim and that requires time, empathy and guidance to help him find his way back from his abuse. Also the Chaotically Evil don't do good things because they aren't interested in anything but their own agendas and glee. Astarion did do good things in game and not all were done to serve his endgame. Chaotic Neutral beings do that. "Might save your life, might steal your wife" Personally I think that the final scene in this play through is our glimpse of who he probably was in life and maybe still is deep down. As a side note if I had to make the choice that Astarion had to make about the feral spawn, I would have killed them too. The sheer numbers of them makes it a necessity. They posed a tremendous threat and anyone killed would have been more innocent people to atone for. It may not have been a pleasant choice but it was one that any reasonable person would have made.

[@AeonicVortex]

As others have said, you killed one of the spawn (bottom left), and that's why you got the scene you did. But this was new content to me, as I got the version where they all lived, so it was nice to see this version anyway!

[@RembriteC]

In my playthrough, I was able to help Astarion down during the ritual so he could help fight (I pitted him against Cazador and they have a little fighting dialogue too). I didn't know this was possible and had to reload after failing the timer to stop the ritual >_> If you hover over the status effect on Astarion saying he is incapacitated, it also says you can help him. Also, I had Halsin in my group when I let the spawn live and he agrees with this choice, saying it's good to give them a chance and nature will sort them out. A very Halsin answer haha

[@Mmogurl]

Yes, in my case, I just killed Cazador and at that point after a turn or so Astarion came down and helped. But yeah that is definitely a Halsin answer! Balance in all things!

[@RembriteC]

@@Mmogurl I'm glad Astarion gets to join this fight and not stay stuck in the air like a damsel in distress ;o; Side note, I was curious and saw a video recently of what happens if you don't take Astarion to kill Cazador and it's such a slap in the face to Astarion's growth. I had to talk him out of ascending, but getting the path where you can see his thoughts and he's clearly overwhelmed and not okay made encouraging him to be something more than another Cazador and watching him choose himself so worth it. I'm so proud of him! Kudos on getting such a wonderful outcome with him~

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

"Nature will sort them out" means most of the spawn will _die_ down in the Underdark. Remember those 7000 spawns in the cells are all starved, most of them insane, incredibly weak, and have no experience in feeding themselves or fighting monsters, no weapons or gear. There's precious little for them to feed on in the Underdark, but plenty of monsters. If they reach Menzoberrazan the city of the drow, the drow will enslave them. The Myconoids _love_ (un)dead bodies to grow their baby fungus on! Letting the spawns go free instead of mercykilling them quickly (thus letting their souls go to the Afterlife) is IMO really _not_ the ideal choice, even if the game makes it sound like the merciful option. Sure, it makes you feel all noble and stuff, esp with the game pushing dialogue on you to persuade Astarion to feel guilty for Cazador's sins and letting you and the other companions guilt-trip him if he destroys them after stopping the Black Mass. The game tends to play Advocatus Diaboli, but the option it gives you are not automatically the best. Using the sacrificial victims as tools in the Rite of Ascension is evil under philosophy of ethics, and in D&D terms evil because it explicitely destroys their souls to feed them into the Ascendee. But from a more pragmatic viewpoint: You trapped them in this state of eternal hunger. You can't cure them, you can't feed them all. And you made them everyone else's problem as well. As Astarion said, how many tens or hundreds of thousands of people would those starving rabid 7000 spawn kill in the city if let out? If you let them all out and then talk to the Gur afterwards, the Gur leader is _horrified_ that you killed one vampire lord but set 7000 (technically 7006, if we count the six thralls as well) vampire spawn free. The Gur are bigotted zealots, honestly, they consider vampire spawn as un-people that can be killed without remorse, but they are pragmatic. If you tell them -- or preferably let Astarion tell them -- you let the spawn flee into the Underdark, the Gur decide to follow them (presumably to hunt them down). Astarion will tell them their own children are among those spawn, so maybe they should reconsider seeing vampire spawns as monsters and instead see them as people who were victimized. Heck, the Gur children in the cells will even admit that they're tormented by constant bloodlust and they would become a plague upon their own tribe if set free! Sure, if you set them free, the children will thank Astarion for having spared them. Buit if Gandrel survived into Act 3 and you take him to meet the children in the sewers, two of them are his own children... and the best advice you can offer him is "let them feed on animals only". On the other hand, if you let Astarion use the staff to destroy the prisoners, it's gruesome (and I feel sorry for Sabastian especially), but if you then go to the Gur, their leader will _actually praise Astarion for having "dealt" with the threat! She will ask if we found their children. Astarion will squirm a bit but then admit, yes, we found them but Cazador had turned them into spawn. And yes, they're now dead... and Astarion will take full responsibility for that, telling the Gur he did it to 1. prevent the Gur from going into the Underdark and getting slaughtered, and 2. spare the Gur families the pain of having to see what their children turned into. Better to remember them as they were while alive. The Gur leader actually takes it fairly chill. Remember, they live in a medieval-style world where people (including children) die every damn day. Childen die, so you grieve, then you make more children. But if you let the vampire children live, they will be immortal but never grow up, never be able to hunt on their own. Their families will be stuck with bloodthirsty undead that look like children for generations, unless the parents decide to end it. More importantly from a gameplay and story quest perspective, if Astarion refuses the Ascension (thereby proving he is not corrupted) and then destroys the 7000 spawn (thereby removing the need for the Gur to go hunting for their undead children in the Underdark), the Gur leader will actually tell Astarion that he will never be hunted again by her tribe. And the Gur will be allies in ther Endgame battle. If you or Astarion let the 7000 spawn go, she makes no such promise to him. And I'm not sure if they help in the Endgame battle.

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

I may sound heartless, but... in D&D, death is not the end as the souls go to their respective afterlives in the Outer Planes; to your deity's plane if you're a cleric or paladin, to some plane that suits your alignment or belief if you haven't pledged your soul to a deity, or to he Lower Planes (the Hells or the demon realms) if you sold your soul or were very evil indeed. But destroying souls (as the Rite of Ascension does) is on a whole other level. Thus simply killing the vampire spawns without shredding their souls can be seen as setting them free from their wretches existence.

[@scully4life]

I've been excited to hear your thoughts on this quest and it's scenes! I always find your Astarion analyses to be pretty well thought out and nuanced. I wanted to add that his line about how killing Cazador being the "second-most satisfying" thing they'll do together, doesn't confuse me because I think that he actually did enjoy the **honks** in Act 1, but he was confused about it because he tainted it with his attitude towards *honks*. The main reason I think this is because in the graveyard scene after this quest he mentions that being with Tav was about manipulating them but also about "lust." Now, I didn't get this conversation in my game, so I am seeing it for the first time now, after already seeing the graveyard scene, so maybe it would have been confusing if I had seen it the other way around. But also, I already suspected there was an element of satisfaction for him in the Act 1 relationship from other things he's said, but I can't remember them at this point. I'm about to start a Dark Urge playthrough where I focus more on the romance with Astarion, since it's so much deeper as a Dark Urge character, so I'll be paying better attention to these sorts of things. I missed a lot in my first playthrough.

[@TheImpolitelad]

Without romancing Astarion then he spends most of act 3 becoming increasingly agressive. The closer you get to Cazador the more he becomes overwhelmed with fear and desperation. Through the conversation you have with him in act 2 romance you essetially resolve his issues before they happen. He is still traumatized through 200 years of torture, but he has something to live for now. Without the romance he has nothing, so he sees the ritual as his only chance for safety and freedom. And by the time you get to it, that desperation for safety is somehting he is willing to sacrifice everything for, even himself. I very much prefer the non romance version of the character because it explores the character through his trauma in a profoundly different way. The same topics covered in the act 2 romance are instead played out as Astarion asks you to use the tadpole powers to let him see the runes on his back, allowing him to carve them into Cazadore. The opportunity to drag Astarion back to his senses, back to his humanity, as he is on the brink of becoming Cazadore himself is so much more satisfying.

[@adnaP_esreveR]

Interesting. I plan on romancing every Origin character (god I love them all!) so I'm looking forward for this. Note: I seriously recommend playing Dark Urge if you do romance Astarion. It kinda feels like you're helping each other break free from what controls you while you both try to be better people than you were before. It's quite nice and Astarion has heartwarmingly supportive lines for a resist route Dark Urge because he's kind of in the same boat. Meanwhile it makes his "it was objectively stupid to trust me" line extremely funny considering what Dark Urge was like before rejecting Daddy Bhaal.

[@PaulRGauthier]

That's true only inside the Cazador quest. If you pay attention to his reactions in Act 3, you'll see quite a different Astarion than in Act 1. He's mellowed and is far less cynical, sometimes even approving of "good" actions. Which is what makes his temptation after the final confrontation my poignant. The evil Astarion really is a fall from grace.

[@adnaP_esreveR]

​@@PaulRGauthier Yeah I was shocked that he was happy I saved everyone in the prison in Act 3. Among some other good choices. Most notably he *approved* of the "you can be better than this" option as he was about to perform the ritual. I thought we'd have a problem for sure for trying to impose my morals onto him or something, but he actually liked that. I guess a good Tav/Dark Urge's actions restore his belief in altruism again, just a little bit. Though how much, I'm not really sure. He still approves of some evil here and there, and I might be a bit desensitized to his evil deeds, because whatever was haunting my Durge made him look kinda harmless in comparison. (Not trying to play the uwu softboy card, it's just that The Urge questline was extremely screwed up and was more disturbing to me than whatever Astarion was up to, making me forget just how much of a dick he is - and can be if ascended)

[@davekat]

I'm not sure what caused it, but when I got to the scene where Astarion kills Cazador and cries, it actually looked like he was crying and the red light off the glowing spawn in the background was reflecting off of it. Basically a stream of neon red down his face. I haven't seen that in any videos on KZbin though, so I'm really confused if that was a glitch or actually intended as a visual effect. It could be something else like a spell or in game effect I haven't thought of as I did reclass him to Fiendlock.

[@elishajones1286]

Yay! I can finally discuss this whole thing and of course can't wait for your thoughts on the soon after this romance scene. *Long post* Astarion starts off the game as what he has been for the past 200 years. He protects himself by pretending not to care and uses *honks* as a means to protect himself, as he notes in Act 2 about manipulating you so you won't turn on him. In Act 3 with his siblings who invade your camp there is a dialog where Astarion says that no one is like Tav, that everyone else in the world are mean and cruel, but only Tav is caring and nice. Truthfully, I think that the Anti-Astarion comments I have seen really drive this home as well as the Gur. They say, well he is just a vampire so he's a monster who should die. So of course he has to live with a knowledge of everyone hates him and wants to kill him and his master tortures him, uses him, and forces him to be essentially a *honk* slave to lure people in. The fact that someone can care for him and see him for who he is really is meaningful to him. He is also not a horny *honk* fiend, like others claim of him. He states multiple times he doesn't like it because it is a feeling of loathing for him, and it is hard for him to overcome that feeling. I think his comment about the "second most satisfying" may just be dealing with the feeling of being loved by Tav in general or he realized he may actually enjoyed the *honk* with Tav, but perhaps he really just means feeling loved. Cazador, I didn't find to be what I thought he would be like, however, I did note in the dialogue choices there was one that said "you were scared of him?" So I think perhaps it was meant to really be a show that a truly evil person cannot be judged by just looking evil. Someone who doesn't look menacing can be a really bad person. I did get the part where I had to talk Astarion down, but I chose to let the spawn go (Gale approved). There is actually a selection in the ending of the game conversation that deals with that choice. I also find it interesting with the conversation at the cages if Astarion is considering the spawn as a means to an end, that I can remind Astarion that Tav could have been in one of those cages if she had met Astarion before the tadpoles happened. That was a deep conversation for Astarion to consider. After Astarion kills Cazador...that was just years and years of pent up feelings breaking loose. So much fear, anger and hatred...Astarion crying to me was all that coming out...feeling all of that again, all flowing out at once and knowing it is done...heck yeah he cried. In my initial game, I didn't want to lose points, so I kept encouraging Astarion to seek his power and self interest, but then I felt that I needed to be a little more considerate later on and switched it up more slightly before we hit Cazador and I soon realized that he didn't lose points where I thought he would, just as you did. However, I am on my second playthrough to see if I can get the scene you got here and I am talking more with him to consider the price of what he is looking to do.

[@Awkward-qx3kg]

Watching Astarion break down just gutted me. One of my favorite scenes that's ever been done for sure.

[@Drizzerey]

I really wish we could hug him more T.T I didn't know you could get to a point where ascension isn't an option, but I kinda feel like after watching this I feel having the choice makes this whole scene so much stronger. He has spent the whole game talking about how he feels about having power, how it's one of the things he thinks he understands given how he was forced to live for 200 years. Knowing everything that he knows, it is a major moment of growth for him if you can convince him he can be better than Cazador without that power. That he doesn't need it. Also if you succeed in your insight check, you know the only reason he wants that power is to cement that feeling of safety he wants so badly. He wants the means for this to never be even remotely something that could happen to him again, fearing he will always have the option to suffer it again if he doesn't take it. That is a very real fear from trauma and one you can't just shake. Having that temptation and him willing to listen to you just adds so much more to this scene for me. Also with one of the dialogue options, you give him the power to actually choose for himself what is best, and he choses to break the cycle. I can relate to Astarion a lot in this game, and it just makes me feel like there is better options than becoming what I hate to deal with the trauma. Like there is hope and I'm not alone in that. I cried so hard during this scene in my playthrough and with all his dialogue after just, ugh why can't I hug him MORE!? He needs more hugs. Kisses are not the same (but he gets those too cause he deserves all the kisses) I also prefer to save the spawn. I feel Astarion gave a very good solution for releasing them and it just feels better imo than killing them. If these guys could live off rats and bugs, while not ideal, they can teach the spawn how to live off what they find without it being the worst thing ever. I might be naive to think that, but it is a fantasy world and I can hope for better. Though I have to say whatever you did to make him not even consider ascension, I applaud you. That is amazing accomplishment. I hate how so many people hate on Astarion and seem to think he's evil, like no, you clearly have no idea what evil is. The Hag is evil, Cazador is evil, Orin is a whole nother band of evil. Astarion is a victim who finally got free and is terrified of having to ever go back to the only life he can remember. You can either nurture that trauma to make him the worst version of himself, or you can try to help lead him to the path of healing (which isn't always do good things btw cause some good choices can hurt just as badly as the evil ones depending on what happens. IE you sacrifice yourself to save everyone else. He probably will not heal from heartbreak. Sometimes you need grey choices) I also hate talking with people who just see evil Astarion, cause like if they don't want spoilers I can't argue with them (I still try) I went into this game not wanting to like him, because I'm not a fan of vampire characters (there are a handful of exceptions, but a majority of ones that make me roll my eyes at them more often than not) When I first interacted with him I thought I was going to roll my eyes some more cause at first it definitely seemed like, yup here we go. But then I told him what the worms would do to us and his response completely changed how I saw him. That sadness and defeat and of course seeing he is a vampire (it's far too obvious, I kinda wish his outfit hid the scars better to at least only see that he is a little different and not oh, yup that's a vampire) seeing that he doesn't like what he is. That this is just the cherry on top of an already fucked up life for him. Neil's performance is too fking good, I just can't with this guy. So yeah I went in not wanting to like him and he turned out to be my favorite character. To quote him "Trust me, I was not happy about it." Thank you for the video, I am so happy to see someone else go over one of the most powerful scenes I've ever seen in video games and Astarion's character. It really sucks seeing people either hate him or romanticize him being evil (going the accession route).

[@pixality7902]

I dont think its out of character he doesnt want to have sex because of personal issues. That doesnt mean he didnt like it. Not everything is about Tav.

[@Barumonster]

I'm surprised you didn't go into the spawn more, but I know you mentioned making another video about everything you find down there. I'd love to hear your thoughts on all of it. The acting, the expressions, they were so good. How effected he looked, finding them down there. And then his desperate effort to pretend it didn't mean anything. But you can tell.... and it makes the "This isn't you" line later hit home hard on his entire character. Because it well and truly ISN'T who he is or what he wants. He's just afraid. This scene was incredible. I can't boast that enough. It was everything I have ever wanted a companion quest and character development to be. It gave us options to respod in a way that, in other games, I often wished I'd had. Hearing Cazador talk down to him like he does is infuriating, the way he tries to manipulate him immediately, and then seeing Astarion's rage, his pain, the complexity of emotions he goes through during and after. It's... just so damn good. I'll never get over it.

[@АлексейОрлинский-о2и]

If you are looking for the same intensity of emotions? the confessions of Anezka from Vampire the Masquerade Redemption have the same mastery of voice acting and the tone and theme of being enslaved ny a vampire master against your will are all there

[@jessiej1473]

I think Astarion has a classic case of C-PTSD (yes, I'm diagnosing him. No, I'm not a Psychologist so I can't diagnose him. But I am a counsellor and I have extensively researched C-PTSD). In C-PSTD, you get stuck in one of the four trauma responses (Fight, Flight, Freeze or Fawn) and then you replay them throughout your life and on a daily basis. To survive Cazador, Astraion couldn't Fight him, he couldn't Flee from him, he couldn't hide (Freeze) from him, so he had to do the one thing that would keep him alive: Fawn. Fawning shows up as doing whatever you think the other person will approve of. How did Cazador approve of him? By seducing and luring all those people. How does Astarion present himself to you in game? By seducing you to get on your good side so you don't turn on him. He's been in Fawn mode since the very beginning. Even him Ascending, becoming like Cazador himself, is a sort of Fawn response. You emulate the abuser because sometimes that's the only way you could be safe. Power has always represented safety to Astarion. But easing him out of that Fawn response by showing him that he's safe with Tav, shows him that power isn't the only way to be safe. And in regards to that line about it being the second most satisfying thing he's ever done, I think it's more about *creating* a relationship with Tav, rather than about sleeping with Tav. But this is more of a Mental Health perspective rather than a D&D Alignment perspective, so I could be completely wrong and reading far too much into it haha

[@TheCoffeeCat]

Truly the best scene in a video game. I got something in my eye a couple of times. The rage, fear, and shame, and the mourning for all the years of abuse and even for the abuser after the kill, mixed with relief and liberation (it's a "I'm sad it had to come to this" moment). It hits too close to home, having had to vanquish my narcissistic mother in my mind and heart after decades of mental torture. It felt the same.

[@jooheonshoneybal]

22:00 that was the hard won peace/relief & piled up hatred unleashed at the same time... even though u cant completely get rid of those baggages, its like a burden lifted off your shoulders, finally... you dont have to live a life walking on eggshells anymore... Also this scene kinda reminds me blade runner, the death of the creator of replicas by his creation (god allegory like cazador's typa scene)

[@katarinakremberg1319]

I suggest you do the evil ending as well, but believe me it's heartbreaking. I felt terrible. And I felt great when I helped him to refuse the rityal. Even though both versions fit in it's own way and logically conclude his arc (depending on the route and what moral you're aiming for ), the Spawn Ending is my personal canon, I a feel like it's supposed to be the canon in the game as well. I cannot really tell why though. Just a feeling Btw, if you don't kill any of the siblings during the fight you'll have to convince him. So it's not completely his idea, but it's close to that. You just need to give him a push.

[@PaulRGauthier]

I felt genuinely terrible when I failed all my rolls and had no real choice but to help him with the ritual or have him bail on me. So I save scummed until I won, but that felt bad too. There was no "winning" this one for me :)

[@asmalltalk]

I found out how to actually make this happen... you have to kill one of the other spawn which nullifies the possibility to perform the ritual and gives you these dialogue options instead with no persuasion etc because the game recognises the ritual is not possible anymore. when they all live there's always the standard dialogue where you either tell him No, I won't help you/ascend him/persuade him out of it. other ways how he doesn't do it because he cannot is when your character is in wildshape - so cannot talk OR if you didn't kill one of the spawn, you can ungrop Astarion from the rest of the party and send him to the coffin alone. he just kills him because you're not there to assist him. then in the dialogue afterwards his voice lines sound as if you persuaded him out of it (as the game correctly assumes he could not have been alone at that point. if he were, he'd be trapped in the ritual).

[@asmalltalk]

nevertheless, about killing the victims or not.. both choices are hard as hell but I really did like how he shows empathy in both. this is the exact spot where his character development ultimately begins. side note:: freeing the spawn is what he chooses on his own when you're ungrouped from him.

I think Cazadors design choice isnt bad - he is ultimately a small man, only dominating over those who (literally) cant defend themselves

[@bobaTJ]

Neil Newbon is a god.

[@scully4life]

You should see Neil's playthrough on his channel. He trying to romance Astarion and he's getting all nervous about it in Act 1 because he doesn't know what to say to him. It's so cute!

[@tinakevic5082]

thanks for all the comments here pointing out that one or more other spawns must be killed for the ascension option to be off the table. i broke my mind trying to understand where did i do wrong because i had to persuade astarion not to ascend. it would be awesome if astarion chose this himself (without persuasion check) as a result of my previous specific actions in the game. but i guess it's just my perfectionist dream

[@Keeli129]

also can not wait for more videos on your choices to get Astarion to not even want to do the ritual, i want this in one of my playthroughs so bad and so far o was making the same choices you did in my first so i am so curious what we did differently

[@RedTab0]

Kill the spawn. That simple 🙂

[@fylimar]

About having to convince him to ascend or not ascend: It might be tied to you romancing him and setting examples. My little halfling girl and Astarion became friends in act 2 after a rocky start in act 1 (there is actually a hilarious dialogue, when his approval rises after a while) and he did go on and on about wanting to ascend after he learned about the ritual from Raphael. And when the moment came, he actually wanted to go through with it - mind you, his approval was high and my girl is a total do gooder - and I had to convince him not to. He was actually thankful after, but in that moment it took some convincing. But yeah, he started to approve of good deeds, which was a nice after effect. I think Astarions romance would work well with a resisting Durge, since they both are in similar situations and I just started my Durge and Astarion shows a lot of sympathy towards her, when she struggles again. He is already on good approval and I haven't even left the grove (and she is a do gooder too).

[@audreybeebee]

It's funny I forgot about the coffin thing too because vampires retreating to their coffins after losing a fight was also a feature of Baldur's Gate 2. You have to specifically kill the main vampire villain by staking them there lol.

[@PDreamweaver]

I think the the way the portrayed cazador as more underwhelming speaks to how we see our abusers as something big bad and scary when in reality they are not.. Larian is brilliant and would not be supprised if they did it on purpose because of this. Astarion's whole arch, his reactions both good and evil are what would happen either side of the coin to someone abused.

[@robjohnson3095]

I just got to this scene on my evil Astarion run, the lines are completely different, Astarion can even resist Cazador's attempt to grab him, and then, since he was an Assassin multiclassed for extra attack (+ a speed pot), Astarion just outright deleted Cazador! Interestingly, evil Shadowheart romance then encouraged him to grab the power (taking Tav's place?) - she's actually been practically giddy as a lover, whilst good Shadowheart is kinda gloomy in Act 3 as she's remembering her horrible life. I think the red skins on the vampire spawns is a texture error, that's definitely not meant to be that way. Playing as him, he has some vampire urge moments, part of his environment if you will that is pushing him toward dark thoughts. He really needs a Tav to teach him that there's another way! Shadowheart was just to dark a partner to get him out of it lol ps... for your Illithid romance vids, after you've got the lore bits under Elfsong tavern, there's just a bit more hidden with the Dragon under Wyrm's crossing, but hmm... maybe do that after, you know, you've achieved happy time with the dream lover? I'm curious if you'll see more there than I did!

[@domenceuspriest]

Oh wow, I didn't realize Astarion could resist the grab! Did you see what check/save it was?

[@robjohnson3095]

I think it was a wis save, this was also an all bard band team, Astarion and hid Deathwood Band, and the bard die was 1d10... Bard OP

[@domenceuspriest]

@@robjohnson3095 Bard is awesome (I mained Lore Bard back when I played 5e). Good info - thank you! I'm probably rolling a Bard for my Tactician playthrough.

[@AikoSea]

What’s interesting is he was so confused when Aylin feels numb after killing Lorrokan but now he feels the same thing and you can ask him if revenge isn’t all it’s cracked up to be and he’s like nooo way it’s a full circle moment

[@HlootooThunderhammer]

What I got out of Cazador’s redesign, was how monstrous people can look in the eyes of their victims vs outsiders. To Astarion and the others he is the sum of all evil, but to Tav and everyone else, he’s just a rat bastard with a nasally voice. And thank you for bringing up people btching about his alignment. Larian put waaaaayyyyy too much nuance and time in their writing for people to throw a character and their story away at the beginning and then wonder why people who didn’t like them. Y’all look so dumb when you do that. Plus, it’s really funny how Astarion pulls him out of his coffin like it’s GTA 5. Gets me every time.

[@ataucei]

About Cazador whole vibe, based only in videos I saw: he looked kind of not as scary as Astarion says he is, like he didn't sold the terrifying vampire master that he was supposed to be. But on Astarion's own run, when the player goes as him, the dream sequence sold how terrifying and overwhelming Cazador is to Astarion, which was pretty convincing, kind of wish he looked as scary to the player´s character as he was on Astarion´s run

[@AmonTheWitch]

if you save the vampire spawn you get a very heartwarming scene in the sewers between the gur parents and their children, you can then tell the parents that they can let their children feed on animals and that they don't have to be monsters, so that choice is much less morally grey than it seems here

[@AmonTheWitch]

it also just kinda, ruins the entire theme of his character arc, he wants to be free to make his own choices, then you make him rob the choices of the other vampire spawn? as he says if you free them, they get to make their own choices and deal with the consequences themselves.

[@lissaquon607]

How'd you get that? I did the same and didn't get that

[@chrysrubio1024]

I think Cazador looking underwhelming now is a pretty good idea, kinda like when an abused child grows up and finally sees how pathetic their abusers really are…in this case Astarion in a sense “grows up” under the influence of Tav and the rest of the party and we’re made to believe Cazador is some frightening monster when really he’s some pathetic scumbag who only cares about himself

[@mormegil231]

I think the reason you did not get the choice for ascension was that firewall i saw that seems to go over one of the spawns. If you kill one of the spawns in the fight you cannot finish the ritual.

[@BlondyGoesSteph]

Thank you for doing this video! I have done the bad ending, I did not really like that one, so went back and did the better ending, I had to kinda ask him, first when he met Sebastian if he really wanted to do the ritual, He sad he was not done thinking about it, and when we killed Cazador, I just sad something about like lets not do it and Astarion agreed. Problem for me and why I'm currently redoing like 20-30h of game is because I broke up with Astarion and, when you talk to Astarion in the camp after killing Cazador he is like "I wish I could have celebrated this with a partner rather then friend" and I just cant get that out of my mind, he deserve soo soo much more, so I'm redoing this for him. Okay. I also want to say that I want to re-live this scene, because I did not cry almost this whole video. I promise

[@Suzanne_sf]

I know how Astarion ends up. I'm still in the Shadow-Cursed Lands. No wonder Astarion is the hardest character that Neil Newbon has had to let go of.

[@TF2CrunchyFrog]

@Mmogurl From what I've read on forums, there _is_ a way to prevent Astarion from getting trapped in the ritual by Cazador while taking him along. [*] It's not at all satisfying from a storyline perspective though, as it skips the entire confrontation dialogue between Cazador and Astarion. Basically, ungroup Astarion and keep him out of line of sight of Cazador while you go into the room and confront Cazador, and Cazador will wonder where Astarion is, then initiate combat. From a combat optimization standpoint it's... logical. But really, considering it's relatively easy to help Astarion out of the ritual circle he is floating above if you can reach him in time (esp with Misty Step or similar movement spells), it's far more interesting to hear what Cazador has to say. [*] Short of doing a really horrible thing and never taking Astarion along to the culmination of his own personal questline at all, thus denying him the chance to kill Cazador himself to get closure and denying him the chance to decide to ascend or not to ascend. (Yes, some people do that!) There's even a video online with all the dialogue outcomes if you afterwards go back to camp and tell Astarion, yo, we killed Cazador without you. Needless to say, Astarion does not take it well.

[@supershepherd]

6:20 Bro that F-bomb caught me sooooo off guard

[@sans_person]

I think his reaction makes more sense when you get the dialogue to persuade him away form the ritual. As he truly wants the ritual to become whole, and be able to control his life and still live in the sun after the illithid powers. To finally quench his thirst fro blood. Yes it's dark (and these intentions dissepates once he's turned), but it's a lot better than the current physical hell he's trapped in (especially once he'll have to move back to shadows). I guess once Cazador is dead, there's nothing more to hope for. There's no hope left to become a full vampire, there's no hope to evolving to a better and more functional state. He has made his bed and now will sleep in it for an eternity. So the tears also seem like tears of grief, Dread, or even a fear of the unknown as all plans have been thrown out the window.

[@themadelinegrey]

Same. Mine was trying to talk him out of it. But I noticed that in my playthrough I was doing a lot of evil things which made him really want to ascend which at one point when I found the kids...I was like maybe you shouldn't...and it was like I had to roll really high to get him to attempt not too.

[@spacecowboy7148]

3:30 he's comparing your relationship to that of how cazador treats his underlings.

[@Polikaize]

Thank you actually for providing a commentary on Astarion's thought process and behaviour, for all of my neurodivergent fam out there (and myself)

[@jk8451]

In my personal save, my character had the folk hero background (but built up a relationship with Astarion a lot quicker than my other character). There was no option for that one. But in my co-op save (outlander background), there was the option for him to ascend. I don't know if it's character backgrounds and relationships or if it depends on the amount of power-driven social interactions you select, but there's some sort of mechanism in the game for that - which is super cool.

[@sandraharris8978]

So, I got this scene with my first playthrough where Astarion rejected the ritual completely. But from the game standpoint, Astarion didn't know that this was the type of ritual that Cazador was doing. We didn't get that information from Raphy so we were coming into the Szarr palace without really knowing what was going on. My second playthrough was when we did find out what was happening and what the scars on Astarions back was for. And I think that is the major difference between people's playthroughs, is whether the players find out about the details of the ritual.