Atheist Debates - God: Abortion Provider?

[@mccsnackin]

“It’s almost like God is doing nothing and his followers are making it worse.” Now there’s a t-shirt I’d wear proudly.

[@junkaccount2535]

As a Christian I wouldn’t care because at least you’re indirectly acknowledging he exists. Lol

[@FortunePayback]

@@junkaccount2535 We're not though...that's a testament that you god is most likely not real. If you claim that something is active, yet we see no evidence of that activity, then the appropriate observation in response to that claim is "If your god is real, it's almost like he is doing nothing..." I'm sorry you don't understand sarcasm.

[@junkaccount2535]

@@FortunePayback I do dude, I was being cheeky lol. Its okay though because I don't have any free will to logically dispute my beliefs in God with, as all of our brains are biologically predetermined down to the quark and electron resonance. So ultimately if we agree with you then the conversation is meaningless, a computer telling another computer that it is wrong with no real reason for doing so 🤷🏻‍♂

[@Kimjong-Atheism]

If you wear that t-shirt are you going to be living under a civilization created by Christians AKA modern Western Civilization or a Godless atheistic humanist Utopia AKA communism like North Korea. Why is it so many atheists humanists choose to live under what Christians created which is modern Western Civilization rather than living under their Godless atheistic humanist utopia. Why has the humanist Utopias turned into complete garbage.. Now let's look outside of Communism where approximately 90% of the world's atheist come from forced into atheism. The next largest representation for atheism and its humanism is the LGBT community. Highest rate of drug use, highest rate of suicide highest rate of sexually transmitted diseases. Highest rate of mental illness highest rate of people being both victims and victimizes of both child and adult rape. So not only is atheistic humanism morally repulsive it's a disbelief which means it's an unwillingness or inability to accept God which means it's also intellectually repulsive.

[@myles5158]

@@junkaccount2535determinism is at least partially real.

[@alphaomega1351]

I just spoke to god. It said it will address this matter as soon as it returns from vacation in a billion years. 😳

[@Ichabod_Jericho]

Can’t believe you didn’t ask him to give me 100 Billion US dollars 🙄🙄🙄 think of someone else other than you next time

[@EnglishMike]

@@Ichabod_Jericho They should have offered to babysit while he was away, with a little omnipotence and omniscience to help keep things running smoothly...

[@Trumpulator]

Alla I can say, is damn 'it.'

[@aidenmartin6674]

While the two of you are chatting, ask it for some good stock market tips and get back to me.

[@AquaPeet]

@@EnglishMike A little omnipotence LOL

[@while_coyote]

Isn't it MIRACULOUS that everything any god ever does is EXACTLY at the same rate of chance? Like, literally zero deviation from pure chance. Only a real god could possibly take such perfectly balanced actions.

[@theboombody]

Wrong. The chances of Hamlet being typed randomly are less than 1 out of 10^130,000. To give you an idea of how bad that is, if you multiply the age of the universe in milliseconds by the number of atoms in the observable universe, it's still FAR less than 10^500. Pure chance just doesn't make things happen. But you actually have to run the numbers that scientists and mathematicians came up with to realize that. Can't just read the opinions of philosophers who never write papers with numbers in them. The universe simply does not operate by pure chance. It has laws, processes, and procedures in place. To claim those things came from a deity is pure speculation, but to claim pure randomness is worse than speculation.

[@sublime8728]

Thank you for bringing sanity with every video you do.

[@crizolaczarrazcalozirc6052]

Well done Matt, well done!

[@MasterOfDarkness42069]

My sister-in-law recently was diagnosed with cancer, and this happened while she and her husband were trying to conceive. After the diagnosis, they stopped trying as she began taking cancer meds. This was a few months back. Today, however, she posted on FB that she is pregnant with a baby girl. Not only that, but she claims that God blessed her with a baby because of the intense praying and fasting she and her husband did. Setting aside the fact that I wonder how could she possibly know this, I am just amazed how how people can believe in a thing like this. I mean, why did God let her get cancer in the first place? She's clearly devout. Was it some kind of trial? She seems to think so. Meanwhile her husband's brother and wife, had a stillbirth at 5 months. These people are just as devout, and they had a stillbirth. So I am dying to ask her why God gave one couple a baby and not the other.

[@theboombody]

Most of our lives tend to have up and down moments. No guarantee that the couple suffering now won't experience joy later, and vice versa. As I get older I try to treat God less like a Christmas list and more like someone I can trust to just let things be. But that's not always as easy as it sounds. Hopefully I'll learn to endure the low points and celebrate the high points that come my way because I have NO idea what the future holds.

[@EnglishMike]

Assuming you don't believe God is entirely pathological and will allow 100% of the souls of aborted fetuses into Heaven, what fundamentalist Christian wouldn't want the assurance of all their children being with them in Heaven when they arrive versus a 50%, or even a 20%, chance of them rejecting Christianity before they die and going to Hell for eternity? It would be entirely selfish of parents to want to risk raising children for a meager 20 years when their eternal fate is at stake.

[@RKling-o2b]

Wow. You are literally advocating for killing every unborn person and just letting humans die out. You just have to ignore "do not murder".

[@Nai_101]

@@RKling-o2b You could also just *not* create unborn people.

[@AtheistRedBlue]

​@@Nai_101 It would be better to create more angels tho. He is correct.

[@RKling-o2b]

@@Nai_101 ROFL

[@ZaphodTHEBeeblebrox]

are you slowly transforming into james randi? what a great beard youve got going on!

[@__-tz6xx]

Nice argument. It makes sense.

[@EnglishMike]

Divine hiddenness strikes again!

[@Kimjong-Atheism]

If only just once a life can just pop into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence maybe the idea of God not existing wouldn't seem so preposterous Matter of fact if that was the case if one life just popped into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence atheism wouldn't be a disbelief it would be a position of belief that God doesn't exist..

[@hansj5846]

Simple logic dismantle theism in 5min. Still people blindly believe what they were taught as children without ever thinking about it. Fascinating

[@EnglishMike]

People typically prefer agency over randomness -- they want to believe that there a reason for everything and that someone or something is in control. Even a large majority of non-religious people hold on to this belief.

[@AtheistRedBlue]

If I remember correctly, when I was younger I thought that I would be a bad person and I was probably also scared to go to hell so I basically didn't want to admit that it sounded like bs. It plays with your head. I also didn't even know about all of the bs in the bible. I was indoctrinated and brainwashed.

[@RKling-o2b]

@@EnglishMike Randomness doesn't exist. That's science...

[@EnglishMike]

@@RKling-o2b Oh, god, I am not going to get embroiled in a debate over semantics. You know exactly what I mean.

[@RKling-o2b]

@@EnglishMike You contrasted agency with randomness. You said most people "prefer agency over randomness", with an implication that such people are perhaps not as smart as those who prefer randomness. I was just pointing out that randomness is imaginary.

[@allenguritz666]

Interesting. Thanks, Matt.

[@LindaLoma-v2k]

God doesn't protect people. People protect God.

[@Kimjong-Atheism]

Tell that to the people living under the Godless atheistic humanist Utopia of North Korean.

[@LindaLoma-v2k]

@@Kimjong-Atheism Wrong. It isn't a godless society. They believe Kim Jong Un _is_ god.

[@LindaLoma-v2k]

@@Kimjong-Atheism Wrong. It is not a godless society at all. They believe Kim Jong Un _is_ a god. It doesn't come close to humanism.

[@KBosch-xp2ut]

@@Kimjong-Atheism Except their leader is divine, so they’re not atheistic at all.

[@LindaLoma-v2k]

@@Kimjong-Atheism There's nothing to tell. Have you ever even seen CNN's report with Will Ripley? The brainwashed people are the ones telling us how much they love Kim Jong Un. Every home has to display his picture on their wall, just like Christian homes display Jesus. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. The best way to educate yourself is to research the other side of a premise before stating your conclusion. You have not done this, and you think that by repeating key words like, "Godless atheistic humanist utopia," you're coming across as convincing. Nothing could be further from the truth. You sound absolutely either ridiculous or juvenile.

[@mobilegamersunite]

Bring back Odin Matt! 🎉

[@ChrisLambert-Yngvegodi]

Odin Matt. That wasn't Odin's surname.

[@theemerdareloth]

Very interesting topic as always.

[@Kimjong-Atheism]

Yes you got to love the perspective from atheist like matt. They are outraged with their intellectually dishonest arguments defining God as committing abortions and at the same time they don't believe this ever happened because they don't believe in God. But what makes this moral outrage even that much more hilarious is the fact atheist humanist like Matt support a woman having the limbs ripped off for child minutes before the child supposed to be born even under the condition that the woman does it because she thinks it's funny that the child is going to die in agony having its limbs ripped off..

[@llOathkeeperll]

Biblical baby bashing is a phrase that I'm surprised that I haven't heard sooner 😂

[@Kimjong-Atheism]

Forget a moment his intellectually dishonest arguments. But imagine being so outraged about what you define as God pushing abortions, when you don't actually believe in God and you don't believe this happened. And at the same time you support ripping the limbs off of 9 month old babies minutes before the baby is born even under the conditions that the mother does it because she thinks it's hilarious the child is going to have its limbs ripped off and die in agony.

[@xenontouchstone]

When discussing this topic I take a slightly different tack, religions, especially Christianity believe that their god has decreed the exact day everyone dies citing verses like Job 14 ;5 . this means no one can die a day earlier or later than this god has decided on, which includes every stillbirth and abortion, so either this god has decided these 'babies' must die on the precise day they do no matter the cause, or humans can go against his will and cause life to end on days not ordained by him.

[@LouisGedo]

*"Sustainer Ordainer Extraordinarianer!!"* 🤪

[@RandomStuff-i4i]

Extraordinarianer HA HA , that's a good one.

[@LouisGedo]

@@RandomStuff-i4i Now try saying it fast 5 times!! 😉

[@RandomStuff-i4i]

@@LouisGedo I already did and my tongue fell out of my mouth. See...👅😮

[@LouisGedo]

@@RandomStuff-i4i 😆

[@SamWeltzin]

This is a real interesting perspective I haven't thought of before. Definitely something to ponder. Thanks for that.

[@kimsland999]

Do you have a best part? Maybe the ending, how was that?

[@kimsland999]

Wait, do you know ANY words Matt said at all?

[@SamWeltzin]

​@@kimsland999 Do you... have a problem? I just said I hadn't considered this aspect of the religion before. Like, do you think I'm a bot or something just because I didn't go into specifics? Why so antagonistic?

[@kimsland999]

@@SamWeltzin I'm just locating a rat. You wouldn't understand.

[@SamWeltzin]

@@kimsland999 Yeah, I really don't.

[@Devious_Dave]

It's so harsh for an infertile believer to consider their god denies them children yet, as Matt says, it allows pregnancies which it already knows will be aborted.

[@LouisGedo]

Provocative title!! 🌶 🌶 🌶

[@KasperKatje]

"Then the Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: “may the Lord cause you to become a curse[d] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

[@ChrisLambert-Yngvegodi]

..... because its all in his plan. F#ck me and i just thought that i shot blanks!

[@hyzenthlay7151]

I am curious... if God never gives us anything we can't handle, and a foetus is supposedly a person, what how exactly does an unborn "person" handle that their mother miscarried? I mean, if they are a person, the test wouldn't solely be on the mother, surely. If a child has cancer, it's not just the parents that have to handle it, but also the child, so the "too young to be put to test" argument shouldn't work either. The Lord works in mysterious ways His wonders to perform He sends the sailors out to sea Then drowns them in the storm

[@tan_x_dx]

That whole "God never gives us anything we can't handle" is immediately defeated by the simple fact that some people commit suicide.

[@EnglishMike]

@@tan_x_dx I think you can say suicide...

[@tan_x_dx]

@@EnglishMike Fair enough!

[@EnglishMike]

@@tan_x_dx No worries -- I have comments disappearing at random all the time -- the replies to them even popup in my feed even though I can't access the original any more. I sometimes think it might be linked to the number of downvotes a comment gets, but perhaps it's just KZbin messing up.

[@tan_x_dx]

@@EnglishMike It is a very silly website...

[@AethochroicActias]

@Matt Dillahunty What is the online biblical resource you sometimes refer to that, if I remember correctly, contains lists of questions, contradictions, or issues with the bible? I'm searching high and low for it, and can't seem to find it.

[@SansDeity]

@@AethochroicActias infidels dot org ... perhaps

[@AethochroicActias]

@@SansDeity I don't think that's the one. There was another one that I think had a really extensive list of things like why the flood doesn't make sense, moral problems within the bible, contradictions, debunkings and such. I'm going to try and skim through some last Line streams to see if I can find it. The infidels site looks like an amazing resource too though, and I appreciate you taking the time to help me figure out what the website is.

[@chris-io9zt]

​@@AethochroicActias You might be wanting en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TalkOrigins_Archive

[@Raz.C]

In "The Dictator," when the eponymous dictator is told by his girlfriend that she is pregnant, he asks her "Are you having a boy, or an abortion?" That's gotta be one of the funniest abortion jokes EVER!!

[@Uldihaa]

Adoption isn't always the answer either. There are serious, long-term consequences to a woman's body and health even when things go well. There are increased risks of serious health issues like diabetes. There are the numerous health risks inherent in pregnancy, too. Just because pregnancy is natural doesn't mean it's safe or healthy.

[@Kimjong-Atheism]

When a woman decides to have a baby against the will of a man and she forces him to take care of that baby by taking him to court and compelling him to work to take care of that baby. This can have long-term health effects on the man taking years of his life forcing him to do labor that he wouldn't have had to done had it not been for the woman's choice. Approximately a million American men have died being forced to fight in wars while women got to sit home.. this choice made for the man has had long-term health effects not only for the people who are dead but it's caused severe mental illness for many veterans. It's led to things like suicide. You see men and women are different we have equal humanity but with different biologically speaking we play different roles in society. And sometimes because you're a man you're put in a situation that a woman isn't put into where it could have long-term negative health effects and it also could lead to death. I don't see any evidence of women dying at least in any substantial numbers because they weren't allowed to murder their baby..matter of fact there's probably more women who died from complications due to choosing to murder their baby including suicide than women who died because they weren't allowed to murder their baby. I know knowingly or not the Jewish talmud is the atheist most holy book and it allows for child murder all the way up to birth But in the United States we have something called a constitution and when you couple the Constitution with the scientific method it proves that selective abortion is murder which is a crime. I don't like the idea that children born in the United States to illegal immigrant parents are automatically citizens. I don't like the idea of it but I wouldn't support a state not acknowledging the fact they are citizens because if we only pick parts of the Constitution that we like it becomes a useless piece of paper. If you find it impossible to live under our constitution maybe you should consider leaving the United States but there's plenty of countries that practice murdering children all the way up to birth like Israel which has a 75% population that identifies as atheists. You also have atheistic humanist North Korea and atheistic humanist China that's the only three I know about besides the atheistic humanist left in the United States who ignores the Constitution. So maybe you should move to one of those Godless Utopias like North Korea. Modern Western Civilization AKA Christian civilization isn't for everybody and it's for nobody who supports the atheistic humanist radical left, I have the courage of your convictions and go live under your Godless Utopia's

[@Legal_Sweetie333]

Okay, so no woman, in your mind, should give birth? That is insane thinking.

[@Raketo900]

​@@Kimjong-Atheism What a clusterfuck of an argument. Modern western civilisation isn't a christian civilisation, it's an atheist one. And the united states don't belong in that category which everyone knows except for the us citizens. People would surely be better off in almost every european country or Canada than in the us. You should pray that they don't understand that and leave.

[@HeavyMeddle1971]

Maybe there's a lot of information out there, but I haven't seen it yet. I wonder if anyone knows if Matt does all these debates, call in shows mostly because of the entertainment value, or educational value or... A little bit of both? The amount of time and reading/ studying he has to put in must be enormous, i can only guess

[@RannonSi]

On the topic of christian adoption: the catholic church (but I'd be surprised if they were the only ones) historically been very helpfull with forced adoptions (E.G. The lost children of Francoism).

[@DJTheTrainmanWalker]

Answering the title cold: Well... The dude is supposed to have created the cosmos and everything that happens in it with omniscient knowledge of everything that happens, has happened and will happen in it... So 'god' logically invented abortion in the first place.... So... Yeah... 'God' is logically the primary abortion provider.

[@DJTheTrainmanWalker]

I am now a minute into the video and Matt is on the ball as ever...

[@Pleinair92]

It makes sense, given that the Bible doesn't seem all that opposed to abortion.

[@JustineWiniker]

That's so funny that you were wondering about fertility and religion. I've been curious about that!

[@mindfull6254]

Havent watched you in awhile and seriously thought you were Daniel Dennette.

[@RupertsRepertoire]

I hope Matt and Robert Sapolsky can cross paths soon. Would be a very interesting conversation

[@simianurchin7630]

If you’ve seen the Amazon show good omens (im not sure if the books are exactly the same) they have a very similar running theme or joke where all the angels talk about “Gods plan is ineffable” so they just kinda blatantly abuse the fact no one actually knows the plan throughout the show. It’s rather interesting

[@JimiBurleigh]

2:36 Yeah, I was raised in Ayrshire Scotland by hard core, fundamentalist Christian parents. We attended the Salvation Army. To your point, the 2nd doctrine of the Salvation Army is: We believe that there is only one God, who is infinitely perfect, the CREATOR, PRESERVER, and GOVERNOR of all things, and who is the only proper object of religious worship. [emphasis mine] I heard that garbage preached to me both at church and at home. All it did was to drive me further away from religion and belief in any God or gods. 12:09 "Why are we here Because we're here Roll the bones" #RushLyricsForEverything 🤘 Tioraidh an-drasta 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@derrickpurdy7011]

Christians can be pleased about one thing: no one will ever tell Matt he went wrong reading the Bible.

[@dj_tika]

You could end that rhyme with "and that's a no brainer" which could have double meaning because you have to literally not use your brain to believe in it

[@HTGY6YTH67Y]

Matt Dillahunty meme review?

[@bruderk4257]

I love the way you phrased the thing about gods folliwers making it worse.

[@FortunePayback]

Remember, "It's all part of god's plan"...whatever the fuck that twisted nonsense is.

[@Leith_Crowther]

I have good news for people who can’t create their own babies: there are lots of kids already alive who would like you to be their parents.

[@RKling-o2b]

Christians are adopting them at twice the rate of non-Christians.

[@jaswantjagnarain8224]

the matt man. i love you bro. matt, u r not as slick as Chris. but he is gone and i now have u

[@nikczemna_symulakra]

god: grants a woman three failed pregnancies before the fourth one succeeds also god: gives that survivor kid a cancer at the age of 20 Yep.. Seems like a thoroughly considered masterplan..

[@LandriBeau]

Papa Matt, I have decided to base a religion off you. It is called Dillahunism. Every taco Tuesday the Dillahunists will join together for a prayer to you, our handsome, intelligent, REAL, loving god. I suppose to say, but I am officially rejoining the theists. BUT, I actually have evidence for my god, so.. ☺️

[@Bangin0utWest]

U should sell that t shirt lmao

[@Nocturnalux]

I was raised Catholic and the biblical passage used to condemn abortion was NT, Luke- I think- when John the Baptist, still in the womb, moves so as to meet the touch of the Virgin Mary.

[@RKling-o2b]

What about "Do not murder"?

[@Nocturnalux]

@@RKling-o2b Applies to actual people outside the womb.

[@RKling-o2b]

@@Nocturnalux why only after birth?

[@RKling-o2b]

@@Nocturnalux Does the Catholic church say killing an unborn baby is not murder?

[@duffduffington843]

Come on Matt! The answer is easy, "god works in mYsTeRiOuS ways." *Cop out answer successfully applied*

[@memecity9849]

But then they also claim to know exactly what God will or will not do

[@jasonspades1265]

With the academic efficiency of an intellectual predator looking for fallacious prey, he simply shreds bad ideas with zero useless or points or irrelevant sophistry.

[@ryangooseling]

This thought process makes me so angry. It just allows shty ppl to say shty things. By this logic god gave my 89 yr old mother face eating cancer just so she could suffer and die! Thank you for all your hard work❤

[@spyder2383]

I stubbed my toe, thank you jesus.

[@cuaresmacarpentry]

Some time it's hard to see how God turns something bad into good. I believe God knows what he is doing and wants good for our lives.

[@SansDeity]

What reason does anyone have to believe that?

[@cuaresmacarpentry]

@SansDeity As a father wants good for their child God wants good for us. Sometimes we have something bad happen In our life that we think is the worst thing that can happen. Yet our faith in God gets us through, let it be a direct word, bible verse, a like minded believer, or prayer.

[@lochnessmunster1189]

@@cuaresmacarpentry What good did this 'god' do in helping the Allied effort in World War 2?

[@cuaresmacarpentry]

@@lochnessmunster1189 Well they Won right. Sorry if I didn't understand the question.

[@lochnessmunster1189]

@@cuaresmacarpentry Yes, they won: but it had nothing to do with any god. If the Axis side had the overwhelming resources, they would've won. We know that there's no supernatural entity which prevents evil in this world.

[@gornser]

Good argument

[@tommy32408]

Believing we have a God is a good start..2:19

[@ahgflyguy]

I was expecting something about the miscarriage rate.

[@glenngibson9201]

Of course theists will respond with: Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

[@youtubestudiosucks978]

Theist read? Since when? None of the theist i asked questions knew anything that was in their holy books at all

[@EnglishMike]

Ah yes, the argument from ineffability (I just want to know if that was a word -- apparently it is!) At least it would make a refreshing change from claiming to have all the answers and then failing utterly to explain them.

[@RKling-o2b]

Well, the creator is more different than his creation than a painter is different from paint. That's a no brainer.

[@RKling-o2b]

​@@youtubestudiosucks978 Everybody knows that's a lie, bro.

[@youtubestudiosucks978]

@@RKling-o2b so you've read your holy book and instead of asking questions you choose to follow your god because you agree with how they act right? Keep in mind that people dont defend the things they dont agree upon

[@Nymaz]

It drives me nuts whenever Christians who constantly scream "context!" whenever non-Christians will quote a verse throw out HALF OF Jeremiah 1:5 as if it is meaningful completely on its own. First off Jeremiah 1 is all about Jeremiah saying how important AND DIFFERENT he is from everyone else. Heck you don't even need to read all of Jeremiah 1, just read the entirety of verse 5: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, BEFORE YOU WERE BORN I SET YOU APART; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." He's literally saying that UNLIKE EVERYONE ELSE God knew him in the womb, so how can that verse in any way apply to anyone else? Or is every single baby also appointed as a prophet to nations?

[@chrisose]

Matt, You left out God's abortion methods, miscarriage and still-birth.

[@SansDeity]

Intentionally

[@deshon3523]

Secularists may beat god on killing infants.

[@snakeplisssken8095]

Matt, one of my two sisters suffered through approximately 6 miscarriages. I know that my highly religious dad tried to comfort her by telling her this is all part of God's plan, and he's vehemently anti-abortion. I just don't understand how he doesn't get the irony, or that he thinks saying those words would be comforting to my sister, who i venture was internally saying to herself, "Why me, God?" She eventually gave birth to a boy (who's 14 now), which they've deemed a miracle.

[@jgunn03]

Why, around the 9:00 mark, are you focusing ONLY on female's ability to conceive? There are sterile men, too.

[@theinvestingpalace4710]

Matt, you look like Khamzat Chimaev

[@Ktmfan450]

I want to know what they did with the 32 virgins given over to the lord out of the 16000

[@jerrygarciaisgod4409]

God is pro choice. God is dead. God is a feeble attempt at explaining life and death. Question everything! Truth is king!

[@lalomontoyajr.9282]

Matt what i believe is going on here is that there is a God, but all he does is creat us, teaches us right from wrong, sends us to earth by means of life, but after that, we're on our own. Any thing goes.

[@SansDeity]

@@lalomontoyajr.9282 and what reason do you have for any of that?

[@lalomontoyajr.9282]

@@SansDeity Because of things like illnesses, crimes, violence, miscommunication, hatered, all things done by man and nature. But the biggest reasons I believe are illnesses and good people getting the wrong outcomes of free will. 1. The illnesses: Why are some people born perfectly healthy and others have to be born and struggle through life with chronic illnesses and even illnesses that take there lives at a young age. No God should allow this. But I believe he does. But I believe it hurts him. When he sends a soul to its body I'm sure this God wishes %100 good health. Because why else create a life. But then nature/"anything goes" takes over. God can override nature but he doesn't. Why? That I don't have the answer to. 2. Good people getting negative outcomes in life: I know many hard working, good natured, loving people that have bad lives. No matter how good they do they're always last in line. Yet, bad, conniving, lying people that don't even believe in God live wonderful rich lives. How can that happen? Only happenstance I believe. We all associate good when we think of free will right? That with doing good we will be successful. But like I said. Sometimes or even many times, that doesn't happen. I believe the things that happened in between a person being good or bad is what will dictate there lives. Seeing this suffering from good people shows me God DOES not interfere to help. Same with the bad person succeeding. God will not strike down the bad person for succeeding. Again going back to my "we're on our own, anything goes" life. But I'm not God and I could be wrong in all of this. But some thing in my heart tells me it has to be like this. Because no God could allow everything that is going on now.

[@lalomontoyajr.9282]

@@SansDeity Because of things like illnesses, crimes, violence, miscommunication, hatered, all things done by man and nature. But the biggest reasons I believe are illnesses and good people getting the wrong outcomes of this free will. 1. The illnesses: Why are some people born perfectly healthy and others have to be born and struggle through life with chronic illnesses and even illnesses that take there lives at a young age. No God should allow this. But I believe he does. But I believe it hurts him. When he sends a soul to its body I'm sure this God wishes %100 good health. Because why else create a life. But then nature/"anything goes" takes over. God can override nature but he doesn't. Why? That I don't have the answer to. 2. Good people getting negative outcomes in life: I know many hard working, good natured, loving people that have bad lives. No matter how good they do they're always last in line. Yet, bad, conniving, lying people that don't even believe in God live wonderful rich lives. How can that happen? Only happenstance I believe. We all associate good when we think of free will right? That with doing good we will be successful. But like I said. Sometimes or even many times, that doesn't happen. I believe the things that happened in between a person being good or bad is what will dictate there lives. Again, going with the "your on your own theory". God DOES not interfere when something bad happens to the good person just like he does not strike down the bad person for succeeding. All goes back to my "we're on our own, anything goes" life. I'm not God and I could be wrong. But something in my heart tells me that this is how it is. Because no God could allow the things that are going on right now.

[@lalomontoyajr.9282]

@@SansDeity I hope you got my reasons. Because I wrote them down twice, but when I get back here to the thread I don't see it.

[@firmak2]

@@lalomontoyajr.9282 but everything you said makes more sense if its all natural while not showing any trace of needing a god.

[@mickywinters8451]

Numbers 5:11-31 God condones forcing an abortion on a cheating wife with a magic potion. There ya go… Christian’s: you’re taking it outta context” 😂

[@Themesyndrome]

When you get close to death do you think it’s possible you might reexamine and change your mind and become a Christian again

[@SansDeity]

@@Themesyndrome only if there's sufficient evidence or if my brain stops working properly

[@johnchristopher4341]

Those Christian agency try to keep LGBT community for adopting

[@roebuckmckinney]

Baby Bashing Bible Bonkers?

[@MrCanis4]

“miscarriage”, isn't that an abortion from god?

[@somewhatinformed1208]

what god? why help share superstitions?

[@firmak2]

@@somewhatinformed1208 its using the believers logic against them

[@somewhatinformed1208]

@@firmak2 In the Bible God gets the glory for weather and abortions. No reasons for weather but lots of reasons for abortions. It's as if the book was written by people for people to read.

[@I-am-bruno]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🫡

[@diegoarrechea8566]

Some with ovaries and a urèrues that is only a woman from what j observed

[@buck4472]

This is not a debate its a one sided narrative with a a foolish concept of who God is you don't have a clue Matt just foolish. Ideas of who you think God is maybe before you attack God you should be thankful that he is patient and a God that loves mankind. Even when you deny him.

[@TimDeadmenVP]

gottem

[@trishayamada807]

God must’ve like my atheist self, as I was told I’d never have children and until I was 39, that was true. But then I had a baby at 39, my OB said I was so lucky. Then 15 months later I had another baby! We were over the moon. No prayers, no medical interventions, just good ole biology. The big shocker was a baby at 45yo. No medical interventions. I gotta say, I cried at first; I had two toilet trained children one in 5k. I’m very pro choice, but I could not abort unless I was really, really sick. Happy healthy pregnancy and baby. Also no prayers. I have a faithful Catholic best friend and she would have been the best mom ever and she tried everything and couldn’t get pregnant. She’s like you shun god and you got blessed. I know she was speaking out of her anger and sadness. I let that go. We are still best friends and she is a great extra mom to my children. They even send her Mother’s Day cards.

[@bricks-mortar]

3rd

[@wwickeddogg]

Matt, you are going too far. It's not possible for an omnipotent god to "want" anything. It's impossible for an omnipotent god to "choose" between options. Person: Could the universe be different from the way you made it? God: No. Person: Why? God: Because I am omnipotent and omniscient, the universe must be exactly the way that is perfect for my purpose. It cannot be different from perfect for my purpose because that would imply either that I could not conceive of the difference or that I am not capable of making it in that different way, therefore the universe must be exactly the only way that it can possibly be. The universe is exactly the way that the omnipotent god created it because that god cannot learn or change and cannot therefore conceive of any way in which the universe could be different. How could the universe be different from perfect if that god created it perfectly in the first place? The only way that god could contemplate changing the universe would necessarily require the god to consider different information, but god already knows all information and cannot consider anything different. It is fundamentally unreasonable and illogical.

[@EnglishMike]

A perfect God wouldn't want or need to create anything since a want or need is indicative of a lack of perfection.

[@AtheistRedBlue]

The universe is also exactly how it would be if everything happened by chance and if God didn't exist.

[@Trumpulator]

​@@EnglishMike You stole my line! But I love ya for it, because it's a checkmate answer, and those are the only kind bothering with since they stand on truth.

[@Trumpulator]

Yep the other way to put this is like my friend and I do. To the effect of: "Anger, sadness, jealousy, want, need, desire of anything you lack of any kind, is a state of _imperfection._ So thanks for admitting that despite your insistence, the evidence shows that your god _isn't perfect after all._ It's needy, jealous and petulant." A state of perfection is one without need.

[@RKling-o2b]

"Do not murder" can be used against abortion 🤷‍♂️

[@kissit012]

No it cant because a fetus is not a self sustaining life. Its a clump of cells until it develops functional organs & a brain. No one is aborting them after that point unless they’re already dead or unviable & the mother is at risk of dying. Basic science on this is fucking free

[@kissit012]

The bible doesn’t even classify fetuses as fully alive

[@Leith_Crowther]

The Bible doesn’t even classify killing non-Israelites as “murder.”

[@RKling-o2b]

@@kissit012 It sure does. But go ahead and give me chapter and verse to prove your point. I'll wait.

[@kidslovesatan34]

​@@RKling-o2bif God is responsible for everything and 20% of pregnancy end in miscarriage, that would make him the greatest practitioner of it and certainly not pro-life. A very long way from pro life as the Old Testament demonstrates.

[@RKling-o2b]

If two men fight and cause a miscarriage, the father can demand payment....up to death. Try again Mr. D

[@Leith_Crowther]

I’m incredibly curious about A) what verse that is and B) how a fight between two (cis) men can lead to a miscarriage.

[@RKling-o2b]

@@Leith_Crowther Exodus 21:22-25

[@shaniasmith284]

Perhaos due to damage to the man's property, because in the bible wives belong to their husband's. Lucky for us the bible is just a story and not a written law

[@Leith_Crowther]

@@shaniasmith284That seems to be what it’s about, yeah. The baseline penalty is “a fine set by the court and the woman’s husband,” because who cares what a woman thinks?

[@BlancaMartinez-p8x]

The problem with Atheist is they don’t believe in God and to please God we have to walk by faith! I have seen women that for years couldn’t have children. God uses a willing vessels to pray and lay hands on these women and within a few months get pregnant. Not all believers move in the supernatural of God. Not all religions believe that the Holy Spirit is with us and when he ministers the Glory of God is manifested! My testimony is receiving a diagnosis of having a very aggressive cancer that had spread to the lymph nodes and given 6 months to live. I was healed back in 2000 by the Holy Spirit! I put no limitations, no boundaries on what God can do! I don’t know how old your wife is but my grandmother had her last child at 55 years of age. Because of your belief you have robbed yourself from having children. God is more than able and willing to give us what we ask. Go to a church that does not put limitations on God where the Spirit of the living God is ministering! Peace!

[@lochnessmunster1189]

How do you know that it was specifically the Holy Spirit which cured you? Can you prove the holy spirit exists?

[@firmak2]

" have seen women that for years couldn’t have children. God uses a willing vessels to pray and lay hands on these women and within a few months get pregnant." ok what about all the christian women that didnt get pregnant or had miscarriages or just got cancer instead? "I was healed back in 2000 by the Holy Spirit!" how do you know it was the holi spirit? how did you rule out cancer going into remission? the thing that has been recorded many times to happen? how do you even know the holi spirit exists or that it wasnt somethird entitie doing something? "I put no limitations, no boundaries on what God can do!" so god intentionally lets defective births happen or creates them even, gives children bone cancer or just refuses to take it away? "I don’t know how old your wife is but my grandmother had her last child at 55 years of age. " any many parents that have done so have had messed up children. does that mean everyone will be messed up? no. "God is more than able and willing to give us what we ask. " except all the christians in hospitals that beg god for help yet leave crying if they leave at all. "Go to a church that does not put limitations on God where the Spirit of the living God is ministering!" reality seems to be gods limitation, anything that demands more than the world gives is impossible for god if it even exists, which as far as im aware doesnt.

[@lochnessmunster1189]

@@firmak2 Plenty of truly terrible people have been allowed by god, to make it through the 9 months in the womb and go on to do terrible things, with god knowing what is going to happen. And yet he terminates so many other pregnancies. Makes no sense.

[@banjarqueenee]

It’s God Swill.🪣

[@ChristopherGranning-tj3pf]

The O.T. has a least a dozen verses that mandate abortion...pro-life my ass.....