Athens Archery Closing (Not good for the archery community)

[@bnelsonmedia]

Even though Athens went through the steps to try and prevent the lawsuit, if they didn’t have the money to fight it as a “just in case” they shouldn’t have gotten that close. The concept of the system is the same, and clearly the idea came from bowtech, if they’ve only been working on for two years.. honestly sounds like they got bad legal advice from their patent attorneys to say they’re not going to get sued. Getting sued, and being found guilty of infringement are two different things, but Patent attorneys only do you good if you can afford to pay for them in a dispute.

[@sheyanderson4371]

I am wondering if Athens risked and put so much into the development of the system that they ended up having to release it, patent or not, in order to keep going as a business. That is the only thing I can think of to why they would release it without a patent, knowing full well that Bowtech would take legal action.

[@Shawnbo812]

I had never held or shot in Athens bow. I can only hope that Tracy and Jim come back with an even better bow lineup. I wish them the best of luck and I hope they continue to do what they love to do.

[@BassWhoopinFishingTeam]

They are selfish and greedy. They screwed over a lot of small shops.

[@artorautevaara2377]

Really dirty trick🤯 I am kind of happy I was able to buy Athens bow, little wary about spare parts.. Friend of mine (engineer) checked the patents and told that they are completely different. Naturally, if you work on the axel, fundamental got to be similar; a screw🙄 I hope this will fire back big time. I wish all The best for everyone in Athens family✊ PS. I really rarely take this kind of opinion.

[@sarcazmo]

I own two vistas. They had to know they would at least be challenged based on the similarities of the system. If you can’t afford to contest even the challenge… perhaps it’s not the time to introduce a similar product. Additionally, could they have continued making bows without the system? Why did they have to close completely? Were they awarded an actual separate patent? It’s a true shame they made great stuff

[@RyanAlger-tr4eg]

It is sad that a business shut down. But like you said they had to know this would happen. And I can't be the only person who has seen the similarities between athens and elite over the years

[@phantomcruizer]

Thanks for keeping it real!

[@davidgreer9567]

Dang, sorry to see that happen. I did think it looked like they took bowtechs idea, but I dont know enough to tell how similar you can get and be OK. I shoot a bowtech and was actually happy another company was trying to help us tune on our own. I've watched Nate , average Jack archer shoot and review Athens, and they look like a quality bow. I'm a little sour with bowtech over Tim and Kyle being let go right after signing contracts for the new season. Not really saying right or wrong. I'm just an archer who thinks choices are good. Best of luck to employees of Athens

[@FURFEELINGS_3]

What release are you using in the shooting parts of the video

[@BackyardBows]

Spothogwiseguy w/ boa strap

[@FURFEELINGS_3]

@@BackyardBows I’ve never used the boa strap but I do love spot hog I use the rigid with buckle. I tried the nylon and wasn’t really my cup of tea

[@cliffordmcgraw8740]

As a athens owner what do we do now for parts do we now have to sell our equipment or will parts still be available till gone.

[@BackyardBows]

I think warranty’s are now voided I’m not sure but I don’t think there is anyone to call anymore they had to fire everyone

[@cliffordmcgraw8740]

@@BackyardBows ouch thats crappy. Guess shop for whatever is left on ebay for parts. I absolutely love my summit 7 and its one of my best shooters and now i need to find another for parts just in case i guess.

[@johngarnergarner6724]

Just a couple of comments: It's now more than three months after Athens closed up shop. I happen to be an avid archer. I'm also an attorney for forty years. As soon as I saw the new Axxis line it was obvious they were going to have a problem. Another thought about the archery industry in general. For the most part, this is an industry that is dominated by four or five players. It's hard to know what the revenue is for companies like Mathews. Hoyt, Bowtech, Bear and PSE. They are privately owned so we don't know. But I would doubt that even the most well known among them are bringing in more than 70 to 80 million a year. I'd guess that Athens probably had no more than 4 to 5 million a year coming in I can name at least ten bow companies over the past seven or eight years that have gone out of business. Let's see, just off the top of my head. Parker. Winchester, New Breed, Ben Pearson, Tribe, Stevens, Maitland, K and K. So, the point is that none of these companies can afford to make mistakes. Athens won't be the last archery company to disappear. Over the next few years You'll probably see Martin and Obsession go away. It's not likely that they are selling many bows. Xpedition too. It's just a tough business. Brandon, a while back I saw your review of the Sanlida Dragon 10. You were very positive about that bow. I haven't shot one but by all accounts it's a very good bow. It's also about $450.00. You know Sanlida is taking a bite out of the market. So the Chinese are now putting pressure on our domestic manufacturers. There are two other factors that I believe don't bode well for the archery industry. The first is price. Up and up. At some point there has to be a limit. Even if a hunter splurges for $2,500 to $2,600 on a new rig, he might not buy another bow for ten years. And finally, it seems to me that compound bows have reached a limit in their technical advancement. Over the past few years we had the advent of the carbon bow and we had the invention of easier tuning systems. But that's about it. Bows are not getting faster. Every year engineers have to create a new bow to sell. That's tough.

[@michaelbushey2787]

I was sad to hear this. But i understand from both sides, as a business owner myslef, i get it. I shoot a bowtech right now too!! But i cant help but feel bad for all the people who lost their jobs and business and inventory capital. The big fish, eat the little fish.

[@josephacker5716]

Think it'd be worth buying a new Athens? Or should I get a new bow a brand still in business?

[@BackyardBows]

If u have the money yes, no warranty will deter a lot of people but not me I bought the axxis 35 on sale right after they closed

[@nathangarman7232]

Was sad but like u said no money more backing only thing I can say they could of gave dealers heads up but I have vista 35, and love such a shoume but great input on hole sinario thank u

[@BassWhoopinFishingTeam]

As an owner of two Athens I was pissed… I have an Elevate and a Vista 33. They were selfish and were getting sued and denied it on Archery Talk and continued to sell to dealers right up until they closed their doors. They sold off as much as they could for as long as they could before they folded like cowards. The small businesses that only sold their bows are the ones they f*cked over. I hope Jim and Tracie never step foot in the archery business ever again. I don’t feel bad for them. They are shady business owners. I do feel bad for the dealers that now sit on inventory and have to take a loss on the bows or no longer have a bow to sell and have to try and become a dealer for another brand.

[@Wheat777]

When we ALL saw its tuning system we ALL instantly thought deadlock. We also thought and hoped all bases were covered because it is so similar. Now we can debate how similar or how different it is from deadlock but as I said when we first saw it , bowtech instantly came to mind and its not because we thought it was so different, its because we saw the similarity as did EVERYONE else.

[@BackyardBows]

First thing I thought

[@lustenaderj]

I think there is something important about patents that most people either don't know or don't understand; holding a patent does NOT give you the ability to make something, it only gives you the ability to stop someone else from making it.

[@joshkeller84]

I'd put money on them coming back under a different name and possibly still even honoring the athens warranty. especially if they own the machine tools to build their own cams and risers. The deciding factor will be if the dealers will be forgiving.

[@markychaz]

This is will happen. Trust me they ain’t giving up. They just have to make some changes.

[@artoriaslee]

I found out about the news when I went to their website a few days ago to order an Axxis. I currently own two Athens and they're awesome. I have other brands but I think Athens make some really stellar bows. I own a Vista 35 that I got last year and a Peak 38. Both shoot beautifully.

[@goelzprogram]

Some people will say "business is business" but the consumer will remember this and continue to support the mom and pop shops. I know I won't ever consider a Bowtech product again and will encourage others not to as well. You flex your legal muscles over something that benefited a small business and ultimately the consumer, you may win the battle but there will be long term effects. #screwblowtech

[@pullthefliers]

Great content! Really upset about the situation. I won’t be buying a bowtech after this.

[@diegogalindo1138]

Absolutely agreed. The most unfair and dirt game they play....

[@sheyanderson4371]

Like most other commenters on YT, look into the actual lawsuit for yourself before piggybacking on someone else's opinion. Bowtech rightfully took legal action and Athens never got a patent for the AccuTune technology, for good reason. It is textbook infringement and they had no chance in court, sufficient funds or not. I don't think Athens tried to pull a fast one, I think they may have gotten bad legal advice and/or banked too much on the system to where they had to release it anyways just to keep the doors open this long.

[@Angel.Custodio]

Man I hope Mathews buys Athens somehow and goes toe to toe lol

[@bbmas1930]

Sounds like a patent means nothing if you don't have the legal capital at your disposal to defend it in court. The net effect will be that only the big companies will innovate. The little guys won't dare.

[@phantomcruizer]

And this is why basement/garage inventors have gone the way of the dinosaurs...extinct !

[@SlimPickins_07]

Athens didn't have a patent though. Bowtech did. And it does infringe on their patent if you take the time to read through it.

[@bbmas1930]

oh ok. My first reaction to their release vids was that they were going to have issues. When I mentioned this in the comments I was responded too and told that the new tech was patented. Patent pending? @@SlimPickins_07

[@ShaneBolerHunting]

I haven’t seen a review on the new Obsession’s, but they have really similar tuning systems on their new bows.

[@aarondial1144]

It’s exactly the same it’s on top of the limbs like bowtech at lest Athens was through the center of the limbs not even the same

[@BackyardBows]

Who knows now what they will do

[@joshovans2850]

I think they will be releasing rebranded bows through mountain view!

[@BackyardBows]

Interesting thought, they did sell mountain view products

[@joshovans2850]

@@BackyardBows mountain view products is dropping news on April 1 so fingers crossed they will have some bows!

[@aarondial1144]

Sorry to hear this great bow but I am wondering if obsession new bows will be next to go because they have the same tuning System as BowTech

[@georgemyers6518]

That sucks that they had to close. They seemed like an up and coming product

[@toreyyoung1518]

I quit shooting bow-Tech because of their customer service and the people that run the place. Not to mention how they treated some of the engineers of their cam systems. That's why their bows kept getting slower

[@adamredden2007]

"If you have the most money...." Yeah, dude. That's exactly how it is.

[@rwhite7361]

Unfortunately the legal system (both criminal and civil) are not about right and wrong, it’s a business negotiation. There’s a good chance Athens didn’t technically violate the latent and we unfortunately won’t know, Athens never had the cash flow for a prolonged fight/negotiation. None of this is to place blame at bowtech either

[@aaronshorter864]

If these companies are paying these patent lawyers and engineers are researching that the new technology is not a patent infringement, then them the lawyers should be ones in court and on the hook for the cost. This will slow new technology from the backyard engineers as none of us can afford to pay.

[@colety04]

i think it’s halarious how offended people get when a business is doing business. bowtech on top

[@triph4]

So many layers. If Bowtech sued Athens even knowingly that Athens had legal patents on their side but also knew they did not have the funding for the fight, shame on Bowtech. Second, from a business aspect, the more archery customers out there the better for all companies. This will be a big test for Bowtech, they have the clients and solid core of Bowtech buyers but moving forward, people might look elsewhere if they feel Bowtech might have acted perhaps sneaky (optics is huge). I am looking for a new bow at the end of this year and will probably look elsewhere than Bowtech.

[@jackbuendgen389]

Optics are huge... Couldn't have said it better! And bowtech has THE WORST OPTICS IN THE INDUSTRY. They canned Tim Gillingham and Kyle Douglas in crooked fashion. Now this.

[@roblayman6630]

People are quick to forget that not too long ago Mathews did this same thing to Bowtech but to all the fanboys out there Mathew’s can do no wrong.

[@ZacPalus-zr9hh]

If a bow company comes out with the technology and has it patented, why can't they keep it? If you designed something I bet you wouldn't want me selling it.

[@wcwcgarner2717]

Athens stole the patent. If they were Wright they would fight it. Not close there doors. They know they stole it. From bowtech

[@richstafford1245]

I would hope it wasn’t the SR6 copied considering it has more issues than a 1973 Ford Pinto and is impossible to keep in tune..My first and last Bowtec..

[@dougkiefer7073]

Bowtechs on a roll this year 😳. From cutting their shooters to stomping on the little guy 🤷‍♂️ Old saying 👇 “ITS A DOG EAT DOG KINDA WORLD” Sucks for everyone but as you stated that’s business

[@joshireland6182]

Appreciate your breakdown as a business owner and expert archer. Sad to see a company go down due to not having a massive amount of money to litigate. Sucks. I agree with you. Competition drives innovation and lowers prices.

[@tyronechatley5429]

If the patents are solid they'd sell to Mathew's etc Easy way in to deadlock tech Let's see if someone picks them up

[@TheIVSaken]

I am kind of disappointed that I did not get an Athens bow now, Feel like this years flagship might turn into a collectors item.

[@BackyardBows]

I immediately found one on eBay and bought It

[@MissConstable1]

We have two vails available :)

[@jeremylazzaro3776]

Im surprised that mathews hasnt gone after them for the center mass technology since its dam near the same as bridge lock

[@chucklewis5396]

Crazy how it could go through the patent process and be approved by all the lawyers and legal people to then STILL get sued.. what good is a patent and all the money you have to put up for the process then?? Hate to see this happen to what seemed like a great company..

[@Matt-jl8xf]

I went from loving bowtech a year ago to absolutely despising them as a company now. Regardless of all the nuances of everything they have done the past few months, they just have garbage ethics towards others. Im sure their engineers and employees are fine people, but their executives are just slime bags. They should go be politicians in washington and stop ripping through the archery community with nothing but dollar signs in their eyes. I used to dislike Mathews and Hoyt just because they were the big dogs in the archery world, but as of lately I have come to have a new found respect for them. They seem to care about archery as a community and put dollars into supporting it. Of course they are profit driven.... and that is fine.... but they still seem to have some decency in how they treat others and their pro staff. I was really really considering a bowtech as my next bow because I do like their technology, but I just cannot support a company like them anymore. I am liking Mathews, PSE, and Elite these days. I was actually very intrigued by the new Athens bows and was excited to see what the future would bring them with that tuning system. Its really a shame that this happened. I absolutely hate it when a huge company with endless resources stomps out a small company trying to do good things. Oh well. There are soo many other amazing bows being made by companies that seem to have solid ethics.

[@OutdoorAdrian]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think Bowtech offers a military discount and the others do not. Just saying. I do shoot a bowtech, but also very sad how they dropped their shooters (except Paige). Quite odd behavior.

[@joelaskey2121]

Lot of businesses in NY are getting overly screwed in law fare lately!! #Maga2024

[@chasesomethingoutdoors5081]

I am currently shooting a BowTech so you know I like BowTech but this move pisses me off. And also if Athens went through the process of getting it patented was able to prove that there was enough difference in the patent process that should be the end of it the patent itself should cover you in the court of law. If it doesn't then what is the point of getting a patent on your product. Shame on you BowTech for bullying the little guy. If BowTech wasn't the most innovative bow company out there I would be done with them but damn their bows are good.

[@68dilligaf]

Tracy just helped me today to get some new limbs, she is a very sweet person and Athens always had some of the best customer service. I think Bowtech knew that Athens within a year or two would take a lot of their customers and decided to burry them. Very sad! Hope to see Tracy and Jim bounce back!

[@o.n.e.wayhunting]

To blame Bowtech and say, "I will never own one now ever" is ridiculous and immature. Athens gambled, they knew they had nothing to bet on, and it cost their employees their jobs. Shame on athens and their owners, thats who the ire should be directed at. If you want to be mad at Bowtech and boycott them, then boycott them over the raw deal and dirty business they did with Tim and Kyle.

[@tristandixon4745]

I didn’t even know for sure and I said bowtech

[@bradnelson8410]

Athens had great bows, I shoot one. However, their strengths were their customer service and integrity. IMO, the risk of this “tuning” technology was not necessary.

[@rodney482]

I put 11 yrs into Athens development and it hurts to see it go. The first question that should have been asked …”what will this cost if there is a challenge by Bowtech”… Athens bows were better than ever under Jim&Tracie… hate it all the way around.

[@BackyardBows]

You are so right great comment

[@goredwhiteblue]

Good for Bowtech for protecting their design. Athens shouldn’t have ripped them off and now they’re paying it.

[@FURFEELINGS_3]

Damn shame they are gone I sold a lot of Athens bows and I personally stood behind their products! I mad sure to keep a few aside for myself damn good bows . Spoke to Tracie and they are getting screwed over by Bowtech hard and there is no future for Athens or them coming back anytime soon with a new company unfortunately

[@BackyardBows]

Yes they were who know what they could have been

[@wcwcgarner2717]

Athens did this to them selfs. I know Jim and tracy. I was going to sell there bows. But i saw the new cams. And said that is bowtech cam lock . And knew it would be a problem. Bye Athens do not let door hit you in the Ass. You stole. And you closed the doors in a day. Putting people out of work. Athens did this. Not bowtech. Bowtech deadlock cams are there selling point.

[@alextheis1970]

I agree. They obviously copied the Bowtech system and knew the consequences. I feel bad for the employees that worked there and losing their jobs. They took a huge risk by copying the BowTech system and putting it in their lineup fully knowing that they could be sued. I have a hard time feeling sorry for them as they knew the risk. I don’t shoot either companies bow either. I’m also not mad at Bowtech for trying to protect their technology. Maybe Athens should’ve just paid royalties to Bowtech for the technology and moved on, but they didn’t. I never shot an Athens and I’m sure they were good bows but you can’t copy a companies technology that close and think you’re safe from a lawsuit. ✌️

[@aarondial1144]

What about Obsessions new bows they have the same system

[@alextheis1970]

@@aarondial1144 thats a good question? I’m not sure.

[@jackbuendgen389]

It makes me sad to see bigger companies kill smaller ones with lawyers. I see both sides. If I worked hard to develop cool tech I wouldn't want another company copying my work. On the other hand Athens HAD to have checked the boxes and done their due diligence. I think if they would have gone to court they probably would have won! But we'll never know Ps. I'm working on my reckoning right now putting on a set of Hoyt go stix 😆

[@sheyanderson4371]

If they didn't get a patent for it, they had 0 chance in court. Even with a patent, it was still slim to none that it wouldn't be ruled infringement. Athens basically took the Deadlock system and built it into the limb instead of on top. It functions and operates exactly the same as the Deadlock system and it doesn't help either that they started development after the DeadLock system was already prominent in the industry. I am not happy about Athens going out of business, but I do not blame Bowtech at all for it. That is all on Athens to risk the entire business on releasing tech they knew would get a lawsuit.

[@jackbuendgen389]

@@sheyanderson4371 I'm surprised they weren't ready to be sued tbh. Everyone called it the day that the bow launched.

[@TrueOrange15]

Own a CP30 now. Owned a Vista 33 before that. Both are beyond bad ass bows. As some one who does business consulting for a living, I feel like I have a good understanding of both sides. Bowtech knew what they were doing and like you I have a pretty good idea that Jim and Tracy took the precautionary steps. I don’t have much knowledge in patents, but if it was in fact purely money and knowing Athens didn’t have the resources then I’ll never own another Bowtech. Not sure whether I’ll go PSE, Elite, or Matthew’s, but I do know I’ll be going away from Bowtech this year.

[@Thedudeabides803]

What good is a patent if if doesn’t eliminate the possibility of being sued? Isn’t that what a patent ensures? Bummer

[@BackyardBows]

That was my assumption as well

[@SlimPickins_07]

Athens didn't have a patent. They applied for one but that doesn't mean they would get it.

[@elncalls]

Greed is more powerful than anything we can conjure up.

[@BackyardBows]

💯

[@longshotdiedtired1582]

I’m definitely a fucking asshole but it comes from a good place 😂 , I think it sucks Athens went out of business but they had to know it was coming , every KZbin review I seen on the new tuning system basically said this is just like bowtechs , they should have went a different route something like elite did where they put it on the cable slide but honestly how many other companies beat them to the punch , I believe APA tuning system is pretty close to Elites as well so it will be interesting to see if something comes from that

[@tobytoofast]

Now this is just my personal experience and I know that this isn’t a reflection of the entire company. I was having a problem with a bow. It was a 2019 model and I sent it to them two separate times and both times the bow came back out of tune. A local bow shop thought the riser was bent when they looked at it in person. Bowtech service cussed at me on the phone and during the same conversation had hung the phone up on me. I will never purchase a single product, especially after them bankrupting an awesome company like Athens.

[@sheyanderson4371]

Unfortunate to hear you had a bad experience with Bowtech, as I have had the exact opposite experience with them on multiple inquiries. One including a semi-fry fire that was completely my fault and they still replaced my cams for free. Also, they didn't bankrupt Athens and it's again unfortunate that so many people have come to that conclusion so quickly with so little actual information. Athens did this to themselves by releasing the AccuTune knowing Bowtech would take rightful legal action. From what I have been able to find, Athens was never able to patent the tech, they did trademark AccuTune, which are not the same. They then either risked too much of the company into it's development and had to release it, patent or not, just to keep the doors open anyways; or they released it on bad legal advice with no funds saved to support possible legal action.

[@mikemellon80]

instead of closing, why not just pull that tech from their bows. Prime got sued by Hoyt for inline TM. they changed the name from inline to revex. Athens, remove the came tech and keep building bows

[@NockNArrow]

This is not bad for the industry, holistically. Only for those working for Athens, Athens dealers, and owners of Athens bows.

[@jeremylandphier692]

I wish Mathew’s would have put Bowtech out of business after the crosscentric technology infringement years ago !

[@mayhem035]

Bowtech was bought by a consortium, not an owner own company. So they have a lot of money as they own many companies. First off, i, despite them, for what they did with Tim Gilliam . I understand as an investment vs. return .. yeah, number wise, it's not giving back the money you spend on the people you sponsor. But t they way they did, it was wrong... not buying a bowtech until they adress that decision publicly! So it is really sad to see a triving up company have to shut down . I live in canada and Athens we dont know about ... but it's the principle .. i dont think that bowtech with their decisions, know how it will affect them with the bow community. I think that the bow community is, and i am sure that ! will affect them in a bad way! ✌️👌👍👊♥️🎯 I'm just saying here..

[@BackyardBows]

I think your right

[@jasoncarr9513]

Sadly everyone is mad at Bowtech which maybe is the right response. Let's be clear it was a extremely similar system and some patents get a wording work around and later get fully figured out in court. My guess Bowtech would have done a licensing agreement and Athens wanted nothing to do with it. At a certain point in litigation there is no turning back and this is the result. Honestly I think Athens probably had a few opportunities to work out a agreement but who knows.

[@BackyardBows]

Accordingly to them there was nothing but idk for sure

[@jasoncarr9513]

As a business man myself that is hard to believe but we will never know. You would think that Bowtech would want to make something from the deal rather than Athens just closing and then being out all their legal fees. This is interesting and I don't think we will every truly know.​@@BackyardBows

[@erictaylor4109]

I was an athens dealer for several years before I closed shop due to a move, some of our favorite bows ever and one I would never sale even though its old !! I also owned bowtech bows but after this horse crap from bowtech not only will I never buy a product they make or associate their brand with ,I will never recommend their bow based solely on integrity to anyone

[@tristandixon4745]

I said it was bowtech the second I seen bhp posted it on TikTok

[@brucescott9814]

As you said they would have definitely done the research and the work to make sure their patent was right. But Bowtech being the multi million dollar business that it is, would have used their million dollar lawyers to threaten to destroy them more or less. They should sale their patent to Mathews or Pse just to really put a spanner in the works...

[@BackyardBows]

I think someone will buy that patent and will see it in the next couple years prolly Bowtech

[@michaelpoplawski3246]

If what you are saying is true, what Blowtech (that is not a typo) did is the quintessential definition of "dick move." I would like to see Blowtech handle this by doing a press release and detailed video where they break down one of their bows and contrast their DeadLock system and its components against Athens' Accu-Tune system, and state their case for why they filed the copyright infringement lawsuit. Until then, I think it would be poetic justice for the archery community to boycott Blowtech.

[@colety04]

but it won’t bc it’s the easiest bow to tune on the market.

[@Bhfltd12345]

Just for fun, I think I will call bow tech next week and tell them what I think of their business tactics. The one thing they definitely are not doing by lawsuits such as this that they probably would’ve lost had the people had enough money to fight it is, they’re not hunters, supporting other hunters, which is what this world needs more of if we want to keep our sport alive.

[@coryedd3783]

Can someone explain to me what the truth is? I’ve been following that stupidly long thread on Archery Talk and I quit following it finally. But it had been mentioned many times throughout that Athens received a cease and decist order from Bowtech but they ignored it. If that’s true and they followed suit and ceased, would any of this of happened? If so does that make the owners negligent for not doing what they were asked to do? I’m not on Bowtechs side or any side for that matter. But that notion I just mentioned could change for way a person thinks about this. It is such a sad thing because I am the guy that typically shoots and supports the smaller guy. I hate at least one of the big companies lol. I am awaiting a new Hoyt to arrive though so I’ll keep my opinions to myself 😊

[@traciesavolainen3193]

I am the owner of Athens Archery. We did NOT ignore it. Lawyers responded. We respect the intellectual rights and patents of others and would not violate that. No further comments will be made from us on this.

[@coryedd3783]

I’m glad you took the time to defend yourself. I didn’t want to think Bowtech would stoop so low but big companies do this crap all the time. I feel for Athens and its employees. What goes around comes around. I’ll never buy a Bowtech now that I know this

[@phantomcruizer]

​@@traciesavolainen3193I hope you go back to selling bows prior to the Accu-Tune technology.

[@addictedtoarchery5040]

I guess it wouldn’t get under my skin so much that Bowtech pulled this stunt but we don’t have to go back very far to find BT being a bully to Tim and Kyle. How that went down… that alone pissed me off enough that they screwed themselves out of any business from me going forward. They definitely made a “money decision” in getting rid of them but that money decision probably isn’t working out quite like they hoped. I would love to see Paige say screw you at the end of this year. So basically they canned those guys then turn around whining cause Athens copied them. I wish like everything that Thens could have just said screw you, deal with it just like they did to Tim and Kyle.

[@JoeJotham-u6b]

It's sad what bowtech did,but bowtech getting sued by mathews for in core riser.which copying mathews bridgeloc.riser also bow sold to a weathly man not to long go.

[@328am]

I used to watch your channel with my 12yr old son but now that you cuss so freely, like Shark Tank, I’m out!

[@positivenotekeyboard]

Yeah, you're a smart guy. Please cut back on the swears; it will broaden your viewing audience.

[@ivhunter751]

Bowtech fell victim to Mathews 4 years ago so maybe they were a little sensitive about patents.

[@loganct5]

In the end its always about money. Tim. Kyle. Athens. Whats next? (Honestly)

[@Mathewsman11]

It really is a shame. I feel like bowtech is owed by business people with no passion for archery and they just killed a company founded and supported by archery loving people. I thought they’d sunk as low as they could with the Tim and Kyle deal but guess I was wrong. I get it’s a business thing but as a human I don’t like it.

[@coltonhurley2525]

While i dont care about the tim and kyle drama, i do care about their business future and i bailed on bowtech this year and went back to my pse and hoyts that i know have always been good to me and never let me down.

[@jamesknight6733]

Isn't there a lawyer out there that would help them pro Bono?

[@skoolynugenator1802]

I think this is dirty pool by Bowtech. I just don’t like it.

[@jons858]

Well said

[@kevcanesfan3273]

Sad to see but you can’t expect to go toe to toe with a conglomerate and win. Especially if you don’t do your homework first and make sure the law is on your side. Even then money always wins. I will never buy a Bow tech after seeing my cousins limbs explode.

[@AnthonSa]

I considered buying a bowtech, now it's an easy decision....👎

[@l.i.archer5379]

I'm done with Bowtech. Their customer service has gone to shit over the years. I'm going on my 4th week waiting for a pair of cable rollers and the mounting axle/bolt that goes into the FLX Guard limb - parts that they should already have on hand, since they build bows every day. Can't see a reason why it's taking so long. When you think about every bow from every manufacturer, cams, limbs, risers, etc., are ALL similarly designed and work the same way, but there are no patent infringements there? Mathews' new cam design with those huge yoke hangers on either side of the cam is a variation of Bowtech's Overdrive Binary cams where the yokes of both cables ride on an off-center rotating track that takes up cable length dynamically as the bow is drawn. This goes for the Deadlock and Accutune systems - both are similar, but not identical. It's bullshit. Bowtech is the bully, and I hate bullies. I'll never buy another Bowtech ever again. In fact, I've already spent a couple of thousand purchasing and setting up a Bear Whitetail Maxx and an Alaskan XT. Tracie and Jim should go back to old-school bows that they already have patent permissions, and get rid of all the bells & whistles, and fancy doodads. I love tuning bows with shims, since it's a one-and-done, with no worries about set screws getting loose, or a worm gear malfunctioning, etc. Twisting static yokes was my favorite means of tuning a bow with perfect centershot and arrow flight. Can't do that with these stupid floating yokes. I was looking to get a Vista, but they didn't go down to 26.5". I probably could have done something with the grip and a really short D-loop, but that's neither here nor there, now. If Tracie and Jim came back, I'll be the first in line to buy one of their bows!! Edit 8/17/2024: I found out that the Vista 31 did go down to 26.5 using a different module set, and I bought the last one from my mentor, who was an Athens dealer, for $600. After tuning by shimming the cams, the bow shot lights out!! This bow is a keeper.

[@155michaelx]

this makes me not want to buy from bowtech

[@BackyardBows]

Definitely makes u feel a type of way

[@jayminer9416]

Wasnt a huge Bowtech fan anyways. This was a bully tactic because they knew they could just stamp them out financially. Hope this costs them alot of customers. Wish I never sold my Vista 33....really liked that bow.

[@sheyanderson4371]

It's not a bully tactic, it's a business tactic and a rightful one. If it was an international company, Sanlida Archery from China, that Bowtech sued for infringment, would you have the exact same sympathy and thoughts of Bowtech as a bully?

[@jayminer9416]

@@sheyanderson4371 I highly doubt the two systems are identical. Bowtech did this because they KNEW they could snuff Athens out on litigation fees alone & Athens was gaining ground with popularity. I really hope Athens lawyer finds a way around this and BT gets their hand slapped. Either way....this isnt good for the community.

[@sheyanderson4371]

@@jayminer9416 If you don't know how the systems work, why are you commenting? They work exactly the same except Athens system is built within the limb and Bowtech's is on top of the limb. I am sure that is the difference Athens was counting on to get them around patent infringement. That way they could patent it as a new kind of limb and not a separate tuning system. This happens often in the industry, Bowtech just settled with Mathews a few years ago for multiple patent infringements. Both companies, the rest of the industry, and the community seem to be doing just fine today.

[@sheyanderson4371]

@@jayminer9416 If you don't know how the systems work, why have you already made up your mind and commenting? They works exactly the same, one (AccuTune) was developed long after and clearly inspired by the other (DeadLock). Athens even colored their system the same. The big difference, the one I am sure Athens was counting on, is Accutune is built within the limb, where Deadlock is a separate system built on top of the limb. This happens more often than you would think. Bowtech just settled with Mathews a few years ago on multiple patent infringement lawsuits. Both companies, the industry, and the community seem to be doing just fine.

[@sheyanderson4371]

​@@jayminer9416 If you don't know how the two systems work, then why have you made up your mind on the situation and commenting? The two systems work exactly the same, with a locking screw and an allen driven axle that shifts the cams as it's rotated. The biggest difference between the two, and the one Athens was likely counting on, was that the AccuTune was built into the limbs and DeadLock is attached on top of the limbs. Athens started developing theirs 2 years ago, so there is a clear inspiration from the Deadlock system which came out years prior to development and Athens even colored the tuning system the same. This happens in the industry more than most realize and it's usually settled behind closed doors. Bowtech just settled with Mathews a few years ago for multiple infringements on an array of archery tech and design. Both companies, the industry, and community seem to be doing fine now.

[@kristijanciad9386]

Blowtech😂 rip atens😢

[@brianfletcher319]

Bowtech is off my list

[@johnscott841]

I didn't like Bowtech when they funked over Tim and Kyle. This maddens me even more. The big guy destroying the little guy. It may be legal but it is immoral.

[@bensilvestri9232]

As a Bowtech guy this is really heartbreaking to hear.

[@mikewall1438]

Bowtech copys mathews bridgelock with the center mass technology. Seems pretty hypocritical to me

[@dougking5703]

It doesn't matter. Small company. They shouldn't have copied bowtech

[@tylerhilliker4184]

Lmfao what makes this bad for archery?! They’re a dinky company most people don’t even know about.

[@kylehardin936]

LOL! 👆Bowtech exec. or just routine d-bag.

[@BriceDudley]

I can say one thing, you will not be as successful as many others in this industry with the unprofessionalism that you convey with your harsh language. I will not watch anyone that I cannot watch with my children. That’s why there is very successful people as example Lee and Tiffany and other networks because they are professional and atleast bleep out any bad language or avoid it. If you use profound language you can possibly offend someone or everyone. But if you don’t talk like sailor you will not offend anyone, Chris bee, pj Riley, archery talk etc, just some advice but you just lost my future like and subscribes, trust me it make a difference

[@Below_Average_Sports]

Shhhhhhhh. He’s doing a great fucking job! 😂

[@TheGreatNateT]

It's 2024... damn near anything you say will offend someone out there. Just being a channel that reviews hunting equipment, im sure offends thousands. Personally, i dont trust anyone who wears a suit n tie to work or doesn't swear hear n there LOL

[@BackyardBows]

I respect what you’re saying, if I was trying to be like any of the people you named I wouldn’t be me. Don’t care much to be like anyone or anything but myself.

[@TheGreatNateT]

​@@BackyardBows the videos are great man keep it up.

[@richstafford1245]

I’m amazed in a world where people are living in poverty, starving and or killing each other by wars and other means people can find the time to be offended by words, absurd…