darktable ep 039 - Masks pt 5 (Output sliders)

[@kenhalal375]

I'm really liking the power of the masking in darktable. Seems to avoid a lot of hand drawn masking that I've experienced in other photo editors. Excellent video and a beautiful model.

[@audio2u]

Thanks! Yeah, the masking in darktable is what really sold me on it.

[@norbertvollmary1015]

I saw all your episodes for the masks of Darktable. I never learned so much of Darktable. You perform the best tutorials for Darktable ever. Thank you very much!

[@audio2u]

Thank you for the kind words, Norbert!

[@bernym4047]

The greatest in fact pivotal reason for my adoption of DT is the potentially huge range of control that parametric and drawn masks enable. I still have not got my head around the Boolean control in the mask manager. However, this episode in particular demonstrates the finesse of possible control. I am going back to the first mask episode to rewatch until my amoeba-esque intellect begins to absorb it. It's a form of sheer poetry when watching a demonstration by someone who has a far better grasp of it. Thanks Bruce. (BTW pentalogy is a 5 part trilogy 😂)

[@audio2u]

Yeah, the making features certainly blew my mind when I first encountered them. Leaves LR in the dust!

[@sanjeevvenkatesan3522]

Bruce, I was watching other Draktable Tutorials and here is another way to share the explanation for the top triangle and bottom triangle on the "Input" and "output" slider. The "top triangle" on the slide bar are the color selector and the "bottom triangle" on the slide bar is the "Mask Blur". I get that was good way to remember to fine tune the mask.

[@audio2u]

That's not completely accurate though. If you are building a mask based on say, luminosity, then your top triangle doesn't refer to color at all! But referring to the bottom triangle as mask blur kind of makes sense.

[@sanjeevvenkatesan3522]

Bruce Williams Photography thanks. Thanks for your patience. Still learning.

[@europlatus]

Hi Bruce. I know I struggled with this input/output concept for a while when I first started with darktable. But once I began to understand it, it became quite simple really. I think of a burger analogy, where the bottom bun is the original image before the module, the meat in the middle is the module doing its thing, and the top bun is what the image looks like after. It can be clearly illustrated in your red/blue jacket shot if you simply use the parametric mask colour picker on the jacket in the Hue channel (after applying the hue colour change from red to blue in the main module section). You'll notice the white line goes to red in the input slider and to blue in the output slider. This clearly shows that the input slider is reading the original image (red jacket) and the output slider is reading the image after the module's effect (blue jacket). It's as simple as that. I think a lot of confusion stems from the fact that they used the words "input/output", which makes it sound horribly technical (which I'm sure it is if you get down to the algorithmic level). If those sliders were named something like "pre-module image" and "post-module image", then it might not be so confusing to everyone.

[@audio2u]

Great description! 😃

[@bernym4047]

Thanks Bruce. I'm slowly getting to grips with drawn & parametric masks. I've read the official manual on this several times and get bogged down with "exclusive", "Inclusive", "Exclusive & Inverted" etc., as well as the options in the mask manager which further complicates matters because the order of drawn masks also make a difference. This video clears the water as it were, a little and I will try simulating what you have demonstrated on some of my own images. I'm doggedly determined to master this aspect of DT. When (or if) I do, I will make a video of my own. Thanks again mate.

[@audio2u]

Yep, masks alone is a deep topic in darktable. I don't yet understand the various inversion options.

[@bernym4047]

@@audio2u I have been ripping apart DT drawn & parametric masks for a couple of weeks and feel like I'm getting close to a clear understanding. I was doing a search on "combine masks in darktable" and this video popped up again so I watched it for about the fifth time. The very short section of this video where you refine the mask to eliminate a couple of rogue blue leaves using the output sliders, gave me an insight into how to use the OP sliders to make even finer adjustments. However, returning to my search, no one seems to have touched on the "Combine Masks" drop-down of drawn & parametric masks (i.e. "exclusive", "inclusive", "exclusive & inverted" and "inclusive & inverted"). I have spent many hours practising making masks and though I say so myself, have become pretty good at it. I feel I have got to grips with the Boolean functions in the mask manager, the invert buttons etc but the "Combine Masks" drop-down has me beaten. I normally have it set to "exclusive" and things work logically in this mode. "exclusive & inverted" produces a sort of negative of the normal exclusive mask. However, when I try to use "inclusive" the whole image is opaquely masked or switching to "inclusive & inverted" nothing is masked at all. I switch polarities, mess with the parametric sliders, choose different parametric channels, nothing works. I am actually happy with what I have mastered but I have scoured 'tinternet' for clues on this damned elusive Pimpernel and am beginning to think someone has introduced this bogus feature just to rob me personally of my sanity.

[@audio2u]

Same! I cannot get my head around them either! If I could, I'd have done a video about that feature alone, as I believe it's one of the hardest features of darktable to understand.

[@russghound]

Bruce, you are helping me to learn Darktable much more quickly than I could on my own experimenting. I also love how you make discoveries as you edit. Darktable seems to have some very powerful tools but they are like hidden treasures not easily found.

[@audio2u]

Thanks Russ! Yep, always finding new things here and there!

[@jackdeangelis6585]

Bruce, another solid explanation, I always learn something from your videos. It occurred to me that output sliders are a sort-of built in "second instance" of the mod specifically for masking. Output sliders are finally starting to make a little sense! Thanks.

[@audio2u]

Glad to hear it, Jack!

[@georgesmelon2038]

First time I see a clear presentation of how these sliders work and which usage they can have. Thanks a lot

[@audio2u]

No worries, Georges!

[@anupamdash1102]

The judges have spoken! DT - 999 Lr - 19

[@bofrost11]

Very good explanations of masks and its sliders.

[@audio2u]

Thanks!

[@leona_devon]

Thank you Bruce, I never know what the output sliders do, so thank you for showing us how and why to use them.

[@audio2u]

No worries! 😃

[@VieuxBat]

Great vid, that open more possibilities of control and saving time in masking ..... time for testing !!!

[@audio2u]

Thanks, and make sure you let us all know what new tricks you discover form your testing! :)

[@WebLego]

Brillant explanation!

[@charlesmolt7706]

good info, now to figure out I can use. I don't have models. Just beginning of summer here in the states, It is already hot. 90 f. I am blessed to live in the south. I shoot mostly flowers and landscapes

[@audio2u]

Charles, you don't need to be shooting models! Hopefully, the tips I cover in my videos will be useful to whatever type of image manipulation you need to do.

[@emrg777]

Great video Bruce. Thanks for the credit...I hope the post is useful to some and its a great reference to append to your video. It is a hard thing to explain for sure. I think one additional way around explaining it might be that lets say you are driving the saturation of a particular colour up and lets say the effect works for 2/3 of the pixels in the range you have selected but the other 1/3 are too saturated and they cannot be located or isolated by using a drawn mask or masks as they are subtle elements or scattered or whatever then you could restrict the effect on those over saturated pixels to balance things out using the output sliders.....not sure it this is a good explanation but its how I think about it and I think this could generally be applied to the affect of every module that uses a parametric mask. That input mask is selected and it will always contain a range of values and the application of the module may drive some pixels in the selection outside of where you want it so using the output sliders will as you suggested provides some feed back on the module output allowing you that fine control for something that cannot easily or otherwise be isolated with a drawn mask say maybe even uneven lighting in a colour or something like that.....just a nuance to the explanation...great video

[@audio2u]

Thanks Todd!

[@joaovtaveira]

Thanks one more time! Now I understood something that I've really never have.

[@audio2u]

Glad to be of service! 😃

[@abhishes]

Very neat!!!

[@audio2u]

Cheers.

[@RicoResolves]

Hey Bruce! I'm at 16.28 now, and this is a great video. The input and output sliders was one of the things I just couldn't get my head around and was a "trial and error" for me. So thanks for that. Regarding the video quality itself, please close down the door or your windows the next time you film. That high squeeking sound is driving me nuts 😂👍.

[@audio2u]

Hahaha.... mate, those birds have the most penetrating call, I swear! I mean, I love 'em and everything, but they are annoying as all get out when you're recording! Just for the record... the windows and door WERE shut!! :)

[@RicoResolves]

@@audio2u Haha really? They are even louder than I thought then!

[@audio2u]

Yep! 😃

[@nickknight2095]

Thanks Bruce for a great sequence of videos. I've slowly worked through them and found that your pace, content and explanations are just great! Quite an exceptional learning experience for me who only had a rudimentary understanding of Photoshop Elements rel 13! I shall be recommending Darktable and your excellent videos to my photographic club asap. I wonder if you could advise on an approach to adding e.g. fog or mist to an image? Maybe this could be the subject of a video please? I've tried a bit with the 'graduated density' module but can't find a way of applying, I guess, graduated lightness to an image, let alone to objects at different distances within that image?

[@audio2u]

Thanks Nick. Fog or mist? That sounds more like a job for Gimp or Potatoshop, mate! Because you'd need different densities, in completely random spots. Where a graduated density filter is designed to be consistent in it's blocking of light transmission.

[@cosmo0080]

very good thank u

[@cliffordsnouck9395]

Great videos Bruce - thank you. I have a question though... the part in the video where you change the colour of the jersey from red to blue, how on earth did you do that? I followed your instruction step by step and I just can't seem to get it right. The colour changes but nowhere near as drastic as yours...

[@audio2u]

Make sure you are using the H channel (hue).

[@cliffordsnouck9395]

Thanks for your reply. I made sure the hue tab was selected but still no luck. I thought it might be a problem with the module so I tried using the channel mixer to change the colour, that also failed. The colour changes but so feint. I am using version 3.0.2.

[@timlumley]

I've recently started using Daarktable and am finding your videos very helpful. However, I am having difficulty importing images from and external portable Hard Drive attached to my computer by USB. The only folders appearing in the Import Folder selection are those that are on the computer Hard Drive. Do I take it that Darktable does not support images being stored on an External Drive. I us a Mac together with their operating system . Your help would be much appreciated.

[@audio2u]

Tim, no, darktable will happily catalogue any images you can see in your operating system file manager. As for why it's not showing you your external drive, I can't really say. I'm not a Mac guy, so I can't really offer much assistance either. Is the external drive visible in Finder?

[@andrewgreig1197]

Hey Bruce that may have been me. i also subscribe to JChristina on you tube (kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJTYkqSaot51oKs) for photography commentary - industrial politics etc, He has 17k followers and he has been looking at the alternatives available for those wishing to ditch Adobe. I said that Darktable was fantastic and that your videos were really helpful. Some of his 5k "thumbs up" wiith Macs may move to Capture One or Affinity, but some have obviously landed here. Joe himself has cut the cord with Adobe, has deleted all his Adobe products, cancelled all his subscriptions, and is now looking to learn something else quickly.