NEW DIRAC Active Room Treatment (ART) - Revolutionize Audio Calibration?

Dirac Research is looking to the future. Dr. Lars-Johan Brännmark, Research Fellow and Chief Scientist at Dirac, has given a glimpse into what he believes will be the next generation of room correction. Active Room Treatment correction is a concept that goes beyond correcting each speaker individually in the frequency and time domains. Instead, all speakers work together to correct each other, allowing the user to manipulate the spatial qualities of a system and overcome acoustical problems that are usually left unaddressed.
We discuss what we know so far about the Dirac MIMO Feedforward Correction system and how it can potentially revolutionize how we do room correction going forward. This may impact how you handle bass management, select surround speakers and the types of acoustical room treatments you may or may not need going forward.
Read: Dirac ART Room Correction Revolutionize Optimization: bit.ly/DiracSpatialAudio
Update on Dirac Active Room Treatment: www.audioholics.com/audio-tec...
2022 Denon/Marantz Dirac Roadmap: bit.ly/DiracDenonMarantz2022
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#hometheater #bass #spatialaudio

[@doublet147]

Truly interesting content. The basics of how it works makes sense. I can't wait to see the final product & the specifics of it's execution.

[@wolverine3344]

What a glorious time we’re living in. This makes great use of the technology available to computationally phase invert to eliminate not just 1st and 2 nd order reflections, but all reflections in theory. Dirac Spacial audio correction gives me confidence that my investment in half dozen JBL CBT-70J-1 plus 6 Atmos JBL 47LP overheads May best be utilized for better theater sound. Thank you for the explanations guys, great stuff.

[@angelofbliss]

one thing i enjoy about multiple subs and floorstanding with integrated subs - is the displacement effect, that adds "localized effect" when playing video games. so i hear the sound behind and to the left, but also the explosion is felt more from a "direction". Not sure if thats intended, but i like it.

[@bigdogaxis]

Great presentation and introduction. Fascinating technology that now explains why SU offers Dirac as a bolt on product. Reminds me of noise canceling headphone technology. One wonders where this pits Anthem and Audyssey (not including boutiques) in the grand scheme as Anthem only recently got their Genesis product worked out. Looks like separates is the way to go for enthusiasts. Also, in-wall performance must improve substantially as most rooms do not have space for surround and back floor speakers.

[@squared80]

Thanks for breaking this down for us commoners!

[@jebo4jc]

Super interesting. Glad to see DIRAC is innovating in this space.

[@davidrayburn7829]

There has not been anything in home audio this big since mono to stereo. Everything we have been doing in our approach to improving our systems and even the way we listen to them just changed "Everything"! The way speaker manufacturers build and market speakers just changed, the way company's build and power receivers and amplifiers just changed. This is so significant that it can't even be put into words. Loudspeaker matching now will be key if not adding seprate amplifiers just to run the countering effects side of the system. All the years of measuring and let me get a inch here and a inch there just to get half inch more sweet spot that I can sit down and rest my head in just perfect is over. Loudspeakers won't come in pairs anymore they will come in quads two for driving two for countering. It will even be possible to re arrange your room sit down run the software and it will sound the same. I can't believe the whole audio world is not turned upside down over this. The manufacturers might as well not even bring out the flagships this year its over with unless they can somehow firmware update this into them. But I don't see that possible sorry for running on like I did but we have just entered a whole new Era in home audio idk what else to even say now i will go speachless!

[@C--A]

WTF 🤦🏾‍♂️ dude this isn't a game changer! Hardly anyone ie most customers buying speakers don't even use Dirac or any room correction EQ for that matter. Unless Dirac bundle the software into every single manufacturer's amplifier/receiver sold (which definitely won't happen) its not going to make much of a impact on the market. Plus 99% of consumers aren't going to buy a more powerful receiver/amp. Plus replace all their current speakers with the required ones (likely much more expensive ones) just to get it to work properly. Good Dirac pushing room correction technology but this isn't a magic bullet. Only the rich will be able to afford implementing all the additional gear required. We don't even know if it will work well or be hit & miss. Doubt it will actually be able to fix the audible acoustic problems of those with hard floored open plan living rooms. Or accousticly poor rooms with tiles, laminate, and full of windows etc.

[@libation14221]

Thanks guys. I'm upgrading my AVR and will wait for the later products. I'm interested in the Denon 3800 and hope it comes with the second gen Dirac. If we're this close I need to be patient. Moving on from Yamaha.

[@isak6626]

Now this is a real reason to care about the new Denon & Marantz products. Wasn't very excited about them, but now I am. Thanks for sharing!

[@joemarz2264]

I'd wait until Onkyo, Pioneer and Integra release their own version. Surely at much lower price than D&M.

[@RogueHomeCinema]

Wow! Big capable effects to knock sound into shape. Love this. Like what lumagen radiance pro did for HDR this can for audio.

[@audioexperience]

great progression in the industry!

[@missing1102]

Great content Gene. Seems like this could change a lot of standard industry practice in the way the whole home theater industry works. This is what I was hoping to hear people reporting on from the expo.

[@andrewskaterrr]

THIS IS WHAT I WAS WAITING FOR!!! I was wondering if someone could create this DSP, but I knew it'd be complicated. I'm just hoping my JBL SDP-55 supports it. I'm glad I have JBL 590s with 2x8" for LCR, Wides and Surrounds, and 580s for rears. Will put them to use. My only issue will be my 4 subs run off a MiniDSP 2x4 HD in my 9.4.6 system.

[@romanx3267]

For music production and mixing and mastering getting that time domain response on the low end would be a dream. I hope there’s a great way to implement it with studio monitors

[@ronniefarhat95]

This sounds so cool, and I’m always interested in the tech moving forward. I will say, my main concerns after watching this presentation (excellent as always, btw, Matthew) is that it seems like it will mostly be helpful for people in dedicated/ideal rooms, which mostly likely are already well treated. Sure, great rooms can be even better with this tech, but people who need it the most are people like me (I’m biased lol) that have less than ideal setups. I’m not able to use room treatments and bass traps in my main living room, which doubles as the home theater space in my condo. Likewise though, I can only have large towers and a large center speaker in the front sound stage. For my surrounds, I have to hang small 4-5inch speakers from the ceiling. I have two Monolith 15’s that do a fairly good job via my MSO config at minimizing various across my seats below 80hz or so. My room has various problems though between 100-500hz and based on this presentation, I’m wondering how much my little surrounds will be able to help… Fingers crossed!

[@davidcrandon2329]

No, not at all. This, and Audyssey if you had it, will make huge improvements to your sound, even without any room treatments. Don't worry at all.

[@nigelwalcott2488]

This was great information…love it

[@adamjj85]

Very exciting to see this innovation from Dirac! I'm hoping it will be available via firmware update on existing Dirac processors rather than requiring new hardware? Another thought, wouldn't the low frequency correction from surround speakers be limited given they are usually smaller and have limited output below 80hz?

[@mrlinde6518]

Excellent video. I am looking forward to this. Launch realistic 2023? Its been talked about for a while then died out a little.

[@timalanthwaite4759]

This is a very exciting development, particularly for me as I've everything in place short of this new software to take advantage. Very much agree your upmixing thoughts, even though I've been a lover of stereo since the 60s.

[@PoesAcoustics]

Yes it’s all very exciting. I don’t know when software will be available unfortunately. As for upmixing. I am the same way. I’ve listened in stereo for all my life. I love music and stereo can provide a very enjoyable experience. But stereo is fundamentally flawed as a reproduction format. That flaw limits what is possible in terms of realism and as such, in my opinion, we should be perfecting multichannel music, not continuing to focus on stereo. Upmixing can be a very enjoyable extension to stereo recordings since much of the information is there.

[@timalanthwaite4759]

@@PoesAcoustics I couldn't agree more. I am blessed to own a number of superb stereo systems, but I now get my greatest pleasure from my surround systems. Off topic, I would add that In consequence I've a couple of dozen class A/B monoblocs that are grotesquely out of time in terms of global warming and a horror story under UK fuel prices. For the first time in my life I'm regularly using headphones and now ponder how things would have been different and simpler had I been a lifelong fan.

[@healthynutster]

@@PoesAcoustics I liked your comment about the Yamaha DSP modes. I did experiment with them a bit a few years ago, and if you managed delay properly, they really could effectively imitate a number of acoustical spaces. My favorite was the jazz club setting

[@migeletaratantzi2638]

That intro called the cops :p Thanks for the great content, mate.. cheers!

[@lievais]

This is amazing!

[@joemarz2264]

This sounds amazing: To finally conquer the room, with perfect bass, no resonances, time coherence, in all seats and even mold it to your liking! I had a feeling that DSP would produce something like this eventually, maybe in 20 or 30 years, but not in 2023! This is one of the most relevant videos I have ever seen related to audio technologies. Thank you Gene and Matt. 🙂👍

[@joemarz2264]

Are we perhaps approaching the time when no acustical treatment will be needed, the user will simply place his wireless microphone on each seat, and leave the software do its magic once and forever?

[@C--A]

@@joemarz2264 As good as DSP will become in the next 30, 40 years. Some acoustic room treatment will still be needed if you have a crap room! Ie in cases like open plan kitchen living rooms. Rooms with tiles, concrete or hard wood flooring, rooms with lots of windows etc.

[@joemarz2264]

@@C--A that's right. Those good ol' bass traps will still be helpful.

[@NirreFirre]

Remember that HiFidelity could mean "the musicians are in MY livingroom" since that is what my eyes and other senses tell me. This is, to the more extreme with perfect recordings and capable speakers, "I'm actually in the recording venue". Would be nice to have the choice though 😊 Psychoacoustics are still valid. And so is the issue of getting even larger boxes installed in most homes 😂

[@joemarz2264]

@@NirreFirre exactly! It's as close to being teletransported to the recording studio as possible!

[@stampede8681]

Seem to remember hearing about this in 2016-2017 with the B&W dirac implementation. I will most likely wait for the reviews on this tech in Q2 2023, then wait for a v2 after they fix all the bugs.

[@armandosinger]

Awesome presentation. I was also thinking through the speaker selection implications of the new MIMO Dirac because I’m planning my next media room. In addition to favoring more dynamic and fuller range surrounds, I’m wondering if the calculus for subwoofer selection changes as well. For example, if new Dirac can also use the subs for room correction above the typical crossover region, then you might favor a bunch of pro audio type subs instead of the typical ULF subs for home theater. A pro audio sub is way more efficient at 30hz and above, typically strong in the upper bass region of 70-100hz, and can also extend up to 500hz+ typically. Let’s say you have 4 arrays (because 4 outputs) of 4+ pro 18 or 21” woofers, then you have 16 or so drivers that can also contribute to both low and upper bass room correction. The pro audio woofers that suck at ULF become pretty good at it if you have enough drivers. And they are pretty cheap so you have more of them for the same budget. If subs can be used for correction higher than the typical crossover region, this also means placement changes a bit, since your using frequencies that are directional. So might need to aim the woofers vs pointing then in any direction, assuming the typical Omni pattern. Dual opposed subs become iffy if used higher, etc. Any idea if the subs are used across their full capable range in this manner? Thanks!

[@PoesAcoustics]

How directional the bass is doesn’t change. So I wouldn’t necessarily use subwoofers crossed higher. That would be distracting. Overlapping LF sources below 100hz is fine as always. Beginning to have a surround speaker and subwoofer overlap at say 500hz would be a problem. I would say that yes you want more full range high output surrounds, and possibly more subwoofers. What you might now consider is having things like surround subwoofers and main subwoofers. The surround subwoofers used for correction but not really for LFE. Of course how this is done and the ability to do it this way requires a processor that can handle this. I do not think this specific idea is how the SU products will incorporate Dirac. I think this will remain a level of flexibility unique to a product like the Storm. It’s likely you will need to spend $15k to get into such a processor.

[@armandosinger]

@@PoesAcousticsGood thoughts. Yes, I don’t mean crossing over above 100hz. That stays the same. I mean More like your idea of having both “surround subwoofers” as well as main subwoofers. But it would just be one pool of subs spread around to do both. In the old paradigm, subwoofers bass above 100hz (well one active above to sum the crossover properly), is completely thrown away. So you design for ULF subs that don’t need to play above the crossover range. It seems it should be possible in the new MIMO paradigm to still crossover at no more than 100hz, but also to use any bass available above that for room correction purposes. This would be similar to how the subs today are both used to crossover with the satellites, but they also get their own LFE channel routed to the subs. With MIMO, on top of this, they could also get routed any active room correction info up to, say 500hz, if Dirac detects they are cable of playing that high, as with pro subs. In other words, a bunch of subs spread around the room can be included in the pool of speakers that can contribute to active cancellation, up to the max frequencies they can play, just as the surrounds can contribute down to the lowest frequencies they can play. This could change the calculus not only for surrounds that are more full range, but also more subs that can play into the upper bass, and they could go in places that fill in gaps between the surrounds, such as the corners, etc to have more “active room correction” sources spread in more places through the room. As you say, perhaps this would only be available in the most advanced processors. On the other hand, from a code perspective, it seems it would be just as easy treat the subs as sources that can contribute to room correction in their capable frequency range.

[@PoesAcoustics]

@@armandosinger oh yes I see now. I think this is correct. Subs could be treated this way. It’s possible their elevation would matter at shorter wavelengths. I think it should but am not totally clear on that. I don’t know that the code is an issue here. I think it’s market related. A lot of products are far less flexible because the manufacturers believe consumers will struggle to make effective use of their products if such features are added. They are advanced user features that could lead to confusion. Bass management had been intentionally hampered because they can’t keep up with the volume of support calls from user misuse.

[@armandosinger]

@@PoesAcoustics that all makes sense. Yes, I could see the sub functionality being hampered if it’s too confusing. Looking forward to seeing how they implement their new tech and I’ll hold off on planning around it until we find out.

[@richb4657]

This certainly vindicates the choice to use Salon2 for mains and Rear speakers. :)

[@matthewpaul01]

This looks VERY interesting. The question is audibly how big of a difference is it actually going to make?

[@zavetellus]

Thanks!

[@darrellheflin4048]

I have another question for Matt and Gene. I understand why surrounds and ceiling speakers need to run full-range to help cancel room reflections below 500 Hz, but wouldn't it take some of the strain off these speakers if they were only used for room reflection correction while still being bass managed as usual for the original program content? Presumably reflection correction would be at a lower level than the direct sound, especially if the room already has treatments, lossy walls, traps, etc. Also I assume any processor that implements spatial correction will need to have a selectable high-pass filter for each non-sub speaker for protection, especially if they're ported.

[@malavista8461]

So by adding more subwoofers we manage to replace reflected sound by direct (corrected) sound from the additional speakers. And adding something similar to noise cancellation of headphones...

[@tecnogadgethd]

Dear Dirac team: When is spatial correction/unison will be released for PC VST ?? The first mention of Unison from your own website dates back from 2014 !! This is taking FOREVER !

[@muminowy]

Hi, great video and a game changing stuff! Looking forward to having it! Do you happen to know if that could work in the following scenario: stereo + 4 subs, but filtered not @80, but much higher, e.g. @500Hz? These subs would take the function of the satelites for the the anti phase signals only. These would be DIY subs capable of playing well up to 500Hz. I'm a stereo guy, don't want to build the cinema system only for this purpose. Thanks!

[@rts100x5]

agreed ...this would be HUGE in car audio

[@shaggs2riches]

I have been looking to upgrade to a new anthem processor, but if this comes to Marantz top tier processors, I may go with that instead. I am about a year away from upgrading, so I look forward to reading/watching reviews.

[@RaggyLodz]

Hi Gene - great video! Just wondering if you heard anything about pushing the update to the Denon X8500HA? It is still considered to be the flagship AVR from Denon. Thanks

[@isaacsykes3]

This is just amazing...I would really love to see/hear this in action. I wonder if the new Theory/Pro IWS from Paul Hale would work for this...Gene/Matt your thoughts 🤔?

[@hobblyjig]

I would suggest that people who don’t use up mixers when they listen to two channel music do it for the same reasons you both have mentioned previously. The surround speakers are underpowered and undersized, and that results in upmixing not sounding as good as just listening to the properly powered and sized main speakers.

[@Audioholics]

The surrounds are providing ambient fill and bass managed so that's not really an issue. That said listen to what sounds right to you.

[@rodgerkempisty4721]

Hello Great info. Will it be for new AVRs only or can I upgrade my AVR X8500HA?

[@gjhunter9326]

The thing that gives me pause is the full range 'ish' requirement for all channels for optimal results that Matt discusses. Maybe they will be able to come up with algorithms that utilize the subs and "small" speakers to accomplish the task.

[@michaelrobinson9643]

It will be a sliding scale of capability. Less capable speakers will offset less "active noise" than more capable speakers. I think this will simply translate to a quality difference in results for users. I think they missed this point when they got to the talk about current speaker implementation. If you turned on spacial now in your current setup - it would be able to use what you have and relieve some room issues... it may not be optimum for what you could achieve by moving your current speakers, adding more or replacing with different style of speaker though.

[@tommyshoe-star1426]

Now I finally know why there´s no update since june =P

[@tankafer3127]

i read a paper long time ago about active cancelation reflexion and the resumé was mitigated. if you try correct too high, you reduce the sweep spot for a worse result in the rest of the room

[@itsratso.]

what was that active noise canceling subwoofer a bunch of years ago called, the anti-sub or something. the key to this is if a sizable number of potential customers will be able to use their speakers or not.

[@RickLWright]

Will this be a software upgrade to older units? Or only available on brand new units?

[@Alexandroskollias1]

What's your thoughts on Paradigm in wall subwoofers? Thanks.

[@SA-ne6rg]

How does this compare to RoomPerfect? RoomPerfect takes measurements of the room from multiple positions and uses several different sweeps of frequency from low to high?

[@Chrisspru]

equal power surrounds would also allow for quadrophonic cancelation based binaural listening to 2 channel binaural audio

[@IUsedToBeAPygmy]

When will this be available for consumer, and will it be only on new systems or also available as an update on existing Dirac Live receivers?

[@CandBLawnCare]

Idk if it’s the same concept but this reminds me of noise cancelling headphones. They play the opposite wavelength of the noise to cancel out the vibration of the sound so you don’t hear the noise.

[@DomSchiavoni]

Yes, They should have brought this up

[@dr4jesus87]

Gene, I hope this gets to you. Is there any update to this video because I’m trying to decide on replacing my surround speakers.

[@kingtspoon]

Would I still need a mini dsp if the new Marantz AV10 has DIRAC? Seems as though they do the same thing right?

[@MiccaPhone]

I am a little sceptical as to how well all this works in reality in practice when you do not optimize exclusively for one single precisely defined listening position and a room where you never move any furniture etc. (this is the situation for which we see all these graphs). Just some math: Given that the speed of sound is v=343 m/s and the relation v = f•λ , we have acoustic half wavelengths λ/2 of e.g.: λ/2 = 34 cm for 500 Hz λ/2 = 1/2 meter for 343 Hz λ/2 = 1.14 m for 150 Hz etc. Now typically, in a 3D space of overlaying waves, the typical distance between a constructive and a destructive interference is half the wavelength, i.e. λ/2. This means, for example, with a room correction that optimizes your sound at a given listening spot by means of phase accurate correction signals, you may get an opposite (detrimental) effect already λ/2 away from that spot. That spot may well be already your left or right neighbour on your sofa, or your own listening spot if you sit a little bit offset from the microphone position or even if you change the room acoustics by your sheer presence (the room calibration was done with only the microphone's presence in the room). It would be much more convincing if the marketing did not only show the idealistic graphs but also practical graphs from the room calibration, like the graphs taken at a big variety of listening spots in the vicinity of the ideal spot, and also in the presence of slight modifications of the room (e.g. if you move some chairs, add some stuff on the table etc., like in any normal living room). I know just how much marketing people, and even scientists at universities, work with idealistic diagrams, I have seen it often enough in my academic and engineering career, and while sometimes these idealistic results still show some tendency of validity towards the real world, sometimes the applicability to the real world gets completely lost due to the idealistic assumptions. The argument "Yes these curves are taken under idealistic assumptions/conditions, but obviously the shown advantage still applies to realistic conditions" is a fallacy in general, and the term "obviously" in this argument is solely a rhetorical phrase. (just saying, because this is a frequently done false inference)

[@hi1mham]

Mastering quality for 2x2x2/1.1? Can be used as ST2 or Nova alternative?

[@laurooon1777]

It will come on the Storm Audio, but will it be also "free to use" on Storm? Or will we be charged for that? Normally, Storm has Dirac Full integration included in the price. But I'm not sure about spacial audio correction?

[@SugizoYoshikiX]

is this available on the Onkyo TX-RZ50?

[@davidcrandon2329]

Gene, I have an x4800, which I bought specifically for this. I have a 5.0 system; the wife won't really allow any more visible speakers. Can this be used with "phantom" speakers? Meaning putting a full-range speaker in a hidden location and having it only output the correction signals but not any music content?

[@randomvariablenj]

Is the result of the correction applied using normal FIR, or is there additional functionality required from the DSP chipset? Also would be good to confirm if the Denon and Marantz units really will get spatial correction or just the current Dirac Live.

[@PoesAcoustics]

As for SU, we asked. They only said that it would support all versions of Dirac. We just don’t know if they understood the question or knew that this approach was pending. As for how it’s achieved. It remains a mixed phase approach. That can be fully achieved via FIR or a mix of FIR and IIR. The problem is more complex by adding additional speakers, but it’s solvable through the same basic formula. You simply add a term or set of terms for the additional speakers. As for additional DSP, so the complexity I referenced has to do with the fact that this approach requires re-mixing the input and output in a way that goes far beyond typical bass management. It’s not hard or even complex for a DSP chip to handle this. They have a MUX that is plenty flexibly. It’s that how it’s implemented is usually hard coded into the processor. The issue is how do you send the appropriate surround content to the right surrounds and also mixing back in the processed bass signal to those surrounds separately. All doing so without degrading the sound quality in the process.

[@Petrakeas]

No. It will probably feed the audio of one speaker into the other after adding delay and some eq

[@PoesAcoustics]

@@Petrakeas that’s a separate question. The mixed phase solution used by Dirac for eqing the transfer function is based largely around FIR.

[@film2354]

This is absolutely astounding, thrilling news!!! I have been paying attention to the room correction side of things and believe that Dirac has been at the forefront for awhile. This looks like a true game changing technology that will have a dramatic improvement for the home theater and music loving crowd. Unfortunately for me, my speaker system is sub/sat configuration and none of my satellites go below 80 Hz. All of my satellite speakers (surrounds included) are high quality, but they won’t go down to 50 Hz. I’m hoping that even with this limitation that I will still be able to take advantage of this new technology. I do have 4 subwoofers, so they might be able to help, but I won’t be able to get that “all over” active acoustic treatment. Nevertheless, I am super excited to see what Dirac releases and see how it’s rolled out and who will get it. Curious to see if this will be implemented as a firmware upgrade (Monolith HTP-1, etc) or will it require new hardware? Will Anthem implement a version for their products? I love the direction that room correction is going and can’t wait to see what’s next in store!

[@GurvanBHC7]

No more "room gain" for subwoofer with this active room treatement since all subwoofer work together to cancel room mode?

[@ericshutter5305]

Any news on Dirac ART ?? would love an even better Dirac version.

[@jackmehoff1832]

Lyngdorf Room Perfect is still the King of Room Correction.

[@darrellheflin4048]

Assuming you already have room treatments that have the proper level of broadband diffusion and absorption, I assume that the resulting attenuation of reflections in the room will lessen the some of the new dynamic range demands on the surround and ceiling speakers (at least in the frequency range where the room treatments are working). My question is will the diffusive treatments be detrimental and confuse the algorithm that figures out where reflections are originating and need to be compensated.

[@DomSchiavoni]

No

[@darrellheflin4048]

@@DomSchiavoni Can you elaborate? Are you connected with Dirac?

[@americanidle1277]

Also couldn't you make the argument that you'd still want to use some room treatment to avoid running out of amplifier and speaker headroom since they are probably cancelling via playing and inverse signal of the reflection?

[@stusok6981]

I'm an Anthem Fan...but you guy's are changing my mind! Thanks

[@elongatuspiranha]

I was a huge fan of Anthem ARC too, but once I tried Dirac, there's no way I'm going back. However Dirac is a lot more complicated to set up. Done wrong and it can sound subpar. Anthem is a lot more forgiving imo.

[@healthynutster]

Great content as usual, and it appears you guys were savvy enough to recognize the importance and potential of the new technology before most others. One question I have: the main benefit of this appears to be good sound throughout the room, but my use case is mainly going to be 2 prime seating positions. Will this provide a significant benefit over the current implementation of Dirac in my situation?

[@Audioholics]

Potentially yes bc above 80hz multisub doesn't help much but the other speakers will.

[@PoesAcoustics]

I could see value in problematic rooms where getting good response in a single location is hard. It’s also canceling reflections so it’s reducing the RT times below 500hz actively. It’s harder to do that with passive panels. You really need 3”+ thick panels covering 40% of surfaces to see a big reduction in the RT below 500hz. Below 200hz needs much thicker or specialized panels. So this is able to really improve the bass for any room.

[@joek6207]

Couldn’t this be done with Multi-sub? Where a delay and inverse phase applied at a delay?

[@rayking507]

So would this new Dirac update work on Arcam AVR20. Many thanks.

[@larsv6144]

I am wondering the same for the ROTEL RAP 1580 MK2 (comes with Dirac)

[@ben23a31]

How about wiring the surrounds to a sub, managing the crossover from the sub and setting them to large? Or getting powered rear surrounds with DSP/active?

[@Audioholics]

Yes!

[@healthynutster]

Interesting…this is what REL has advocated for years, albeit without this new correction capability

[@ben23a31]

@@healthynutster indeed

[@nicholasvail8129]

I would like to get in contact with Matt . I started building my theater in 2020 and this sounds like something I would like to get Matt involved. I have floor standing speakers with 10 inch subwoofers mounted above for each channel w/ mini DSP to blend together. Looking forward to this Dirac version and getting a plan for acoustic panels after. Help me get in contact so I can put funds aside to finalize before the build is solidified.

[@MiccaPhone]

30:25 : Please explain what the grey and the black curve means, and what the left and the right diagram shows. It is not self-explanatory. I work in engineering for 25 years and have educated my colleagues to never make any presentation of diagrams without labelling x and y axis, labeling each graph in the diagram, and the diagram itself. They understand it very well now and require no further reminder. EDIT: 30:57 : ok, thanks for the clarification. Then what are the black curves? Filtered/averaged versions of the grey curves? What is missing on this slide is a 3rd diagram: The diagram "no room correction at all". Also what is missing are many sorts of the "left" diagram generated at different listening positions (e.g. from 3 seats on a sofa). I assume the diagram we see here is the one at the perfect listening position at the location of the microphone. And how does this perfect picture change if someone else is sitting in the room, or if I move a piece of furniture , like a chair, a bit, etc.? As an engineer I have seen too many idealistically generated marketing slides (even from University professors) that lack reasonable relation to actual application in the real world.

[@boba2783]

I really need a guide on decently priced calibrated microphones, any tips or recommendations?

[@luckyone1413]

Isemcon EMX 7150, class 1 frequency and linearity for a class 2 price. But for this you need a sound interface with phantom power. For decent measurement the Umik is really good for that small price. Really small footprint to have it allways in the bag.

[@jimmy2shoes75]

Umik-1 is the best priced calibrated mic you can get 👍

[@Rajesh_0190]

can you talk about google working on 3d audio?

[@bingdong8571]

It appears that home theater is giving a more hands on tweak able approach to their systems, which is what I've been preaching for years, but we are still way to overly complex and technical and expensive to offer the average consumer. At least I feel like I was on the right track with home theater, now lets just dial down the technical aspects and get it to a more usable cost friendly place. This will take years but its coming

[@htank6955]

Thank you for sharing this info, Mathew and Gene. Do you know if Anthem is working on similar idea with their ARC?

[@roccobruno8027]

You read my mind.

[@whitecrowuk575]

I do wonder who watches movies at >100db or even >95db? To me setting it to 80db with LF set 10db louder is plenty loud. Also for the reflection to be above 105db how loud do you need to output? Don’t believe any speakers are capable of that output.

[@NirreFirre]

Mm, nice to see pretty regular signal processing math being used even more by Dirac ❤🇸🇪 in Uppsala. Hopefully the manufacturers will not be too greedy and still allow old, technical capable, units to be updated/licensed for this..but I doubt it. Remember that HiFidelity could mean "the musicians are in MY livingroom" since that is what my eyes and other senses tell me. This is, to the more extreme with perfect recordings and capable speakers, "I'm actually in the recording venue". Would be nice to have the choice though 😊 Psychoacoustics are still valid. And so is the issue of getting even larger boxes installed in most homes 😂

[@sajihassan]

Is this not similar to lyngdorf room perfect.

[@C--A]

Nope Lyngdorf RoomPerfect is completely different, as is Trinnov Optimizer Room Correction. But no doubt Lyngdorf and Trinnov will come up with something similar in the future....

[@Finite-Tuning]

I've never understood the baby speaker mentality. The smaller the driver the smaller it sounds, ya just can't beat physics. The smallest speaker I have in my system is 5 1/4" the rest are between 6.5" and 8". I have 9 channels of mains but only 1 sub unfortunately. I have no room in this room for another sub, but when I listen to music it's always all hands on deck. My receive has an all channel stereo mode and that's all I use, for music and for just about everything online such as you tube. I only use DTS or Atmos when watching a movie or show that was encoded that way. I don't have a home theater room or a listening room, or even a computer room, but I do have a living room and it has to do it all. I've got speakers in every corner from floor to ceiling and it works pretty dang well I must say. I cross some over pretty high around 200 hz to counteract the boost you get from a corner, but all summed they measure really good. You'll never catch me listening to a little baby 3" speaker unless it's in a headphone or part of a 3 way system. Bigger speakers move more air and more speakers more gooder! 😁 Cheers 🍻

[@C--A]

Depends on the room size buddy. Your from the USA so I'm guessing your living room is fairly large. Ie the bigger the room the bigger more powerful speakers needed. Whereas over here in the UK our living rooms are usually much smaller. Most of them tiny compared to the ones in the USA! That's why a pair of 5 or 6 inch woofer bookshelf speakers and a sub (a couple if you can actually fit them in) are all that are needed for most enthusiasts here in the UK.

[@Finite-Tuning]

@@C--A: You might call a 9' x 20' room, large, but I call it a hallway! Either way, adding more speakers was the single greatest improvement that I made to room acoustics. No amount of absorbing material will do for you what simply adding another pair of speakers can do. That lesson cost me a lot to learn the hard way.

[@C--A]

@@Finite-Tuning I simply don't have the optimal space or room layout required for 9 channels. If I actually did I would be running a a 7.4.4 Atmos setup. But I'm more than happy with my small scale 5.1 set-up. Decent sounding speakers, good sealed sub, very good quality separate amps, and most importantly (which a lot of people wrongly dismiss) acoustic room treatment. Mixture of absorption and diffusion, which gives a good balance for both Movies and Music. Plus my living room home cinema/music room actually looks nice unlike a lot of the ones I've seen! More headroom than you need from speakers and amplifiers is always a good thing especially in large rooms. What size is your large room in length/width in feet? Must surely be powerful speakers and amps over 300w a channel.

[@Finite-Tuning]

@@C--A: In an ideal world we all would do ideal things. In the meantime we have to just work with what we have. I gave you my room size in feet, it's 9'wide x 20'long ..... More of a hallway than a room, but It's what I have to work with and so I installed a 5.1.4 channel speaker system into it. I power 9 of the main channels with an Onkyo TX-NR797 Receiver and I use a Crown XLS 1502 on my 18" Dayton Audio Ultimax subwoofer in a custom sealed enclosure. All combined together in this hallway/room sounds really good and while it's not perfect, it does measure surprisingly close to it after some EQ work. I don't have any real holes in my bass response using only one sub, but I do have significant gain at the back wall length wise. No matter, because nobody sits there anyway. I used the spin the subwoofer method to end up with that result. I care a little more about music than movies, but I love both, so I need a system that can do both jobs and do it well. I have succeeded with this budget system and learned a lot along the way. My next home will have a basement where I can build what I want, including the speakers that fill the space. I'm not against room treatment in the slightest. I did it too, that's how I know. I'm just saying that you would be much happier overall with more speakers making more sound and less dead crap hanging on the walls trying to block sound. Adding 4 height speakers for me made a world of difference in the measurements and the size of my smile! Sound treatment did very little for either. Cheers 🍻

[@C--A]

@@Finite-Tuning Aha you sounded like you were saying us brits (I'm Scottish) have hallways compared to you's, which is mostly true lol. 9 ft is narrow but 20 ft length is decent, enough length for 4 Atmos overhead speakers. My living room is around 13 feet by 11 feet 10. So considerably smaller in length. Apartment with neighbours below and above. I would get billed 💷 if I damaged the ceiling. Plus my room size is simply to small for 4 Atmos speakers to be effective. Acoustic room treatment makes a beneficial noticeable difference, this is fact. All the experts Matthew Poes, Anthony Grimani etc have shown through before and after measurements that acoustic room treatment makes the biggest noticeable difference to a room. You obviously didn't do your room treatment well enough to notice a audible difference. Or to get a measurable better difference on graphs. My room treatment isn't just absorption. It's a fully carpeted living room (which you need for great home cinema sound) with four absorption panels that have front scattering plates. A couple of of polycylindrical hybrid absorber/diffusers. 3 wooden pyramid diffusers, and a couple of unique 7 layer birch plywood diffusers with a gap between each layer. Probably add a couple more absorption diffuser panels later for on the windowsill. May only be a 5.1 set-up. But with my acoustic room treatments it sounds like a bigger room. Well balanced for both movies and music. And night and day difference much more immersive than without the room treatments. You my friend are missing out big time by having no room treatments. And if you have hard flooring you will definitely need quite a bit of room treatment! Chin Chin 🥂

[@ben23a31]

Yamaha , are you listening?

[@demonreturns4336]

they have their palms pressed against their ears going la la la la la lal

[@aussieexpat]

I'm finding it hard to imagine this being practical.

[@erod9088]

Identical bass response in every seat isn't practical?

[@aussieexpat]

@@erod9088 i just cant see how in room cancelation will be even remotely possible. And did you look at the speaker and energy requirements towards the end? I'd be shocked if it worked at all, and even more shocked for it to work outside of a very specific room set up / build.

[@malavista8461]

@@aussieexpat Anechoic rooms with lots of speakers. "The higher the channel count, better the results" says the presentation.

[@aussieexpat]

@@malavista8461 agreed. Ideally you'd have some kind of continuous array. But this doesn't seem like a silver bullet or even proven viability over simpler solutions.

[@erod9088]

@@aussieexpat By early accounts, they've figured it out. We'll see.

[@38special4ever]

I wonder what latency this will introduce to the system.. you might not be able to delay the picture to sync 😀

[@robertbielik5256]

Not much, on the order of ~10 ms I'd suspect.

[@PoesAcoustics]

They wouldn’t release a product that didn’t work. Introducing so much latency that the picture can’t sync means it doesn’t work. They wouldn’t be a useful product. It will be fine. It’s always possible to delay a picture however amount is needed. But as noted, very sophisticated DSP still doesn’t introduce more than 10 or maybe at most 20ms if latency. The processor is designed to automatically compensate for this inherently.

[@miscreant1739]

@@PoesAcoustics For those of us that like to play low latency games, the size of the delay buffer is still important because delaying the video to sync it to the sound is not an option if you want to stay competitive. I'm sure you're right that it will be fine, but I hope the designers of these technologies don't forget about gamers when choosing their compromises.

[@PoesAcoustics]

@@miscreant1739 I really don’t imagine this tech was considered in the context of gaming. In the example you give, I would imagine that all room correction and DSP processing is introducing meaningful delay. A stand-alone DSP processor often introduced 20-40ms of delay. In such scenarios, it may not be possible to have the best possible sound and no delay. You may have to choose. Similar to how many video enhancing features must be turned off to eliminate problematic delay. I have never considered this aspect of the problem and so have never asked. I will email them today and see if I can gain clarity. We have discussed coveting gaming more since it’s a hot market for surround as well. This could be a good topic to cover.

[@miscreant1739]

@@PoesAcoustics I use the standard full range version of Dirac Live today with an LG C1 OLED as my display. The LG C1 in game mode has an input lag of 10ms and while I'm sure there is some audio delay I am not able to perceive the difference between what's displayed on the screen and the sound that I hear. As long as the delay limit doesn't drift too far from where it is currently we may be OK. It's also possible that it could be noticed if TVs get their game mode latency down further, or perhaps with a lower latency display like a gaming monitor but those typically aren't used in this setting. Thanks for your consideration.

[@powerguymark]

What's SBIR?

[@doublet147]

Speaker boundary interference response

[@ubacow7109]

Dang I wish we could have had this in the X6700H

[@mikets42]

So it's something like active reflection cancelation but done once and frozen - as per program control. The robustness to RIR(s) variability (number of people, etc) is quite questionable. It would be much better to use adaptive filtering with proper sensing mics. No, you don't need low-profile subwoofers, you can compensate for it. No, you don't need a hole in acoustic adsorption. 3" acoustic foam with 3" offset are pretty good down to 200Hz, and only $10/sq.ft. BTW, most residential room resonances are at 120Hz. Even a single Helmholtz wall helps a lot. BTW, the figures at 33min are snake oil.

[@DomSchiavoni]

The robustness to RIR(s) variability (number of people, etc) is quite questionable. Imagine if room correction was simple&fast enough to just hit one button after everyone sits down and the measurements & filters are set in less than a minute. Basically im talking about the possibility of setting correction just prior to every desired listening event.

[@mikets42]

@@DomSchiavoni In theory, that's a great idea. In practice, nearly impossible to implement. Even in the much simpler case of conference events when organizers rent a hall and audio equipment, setting up mic gains and PA ... most often ends up in a barely intelligible sound.

[@michaelrobinson9643]

Clearly this will be a sliding scale of capability. The current room behaviour will influence how much active "work" must be done, and therefore the necessary system headroom for optimal outcome. It will be a sliding scale of capability. Less capable speakers and amplification will offset less "active noise" than more capable speakers. I think this will simply translate to a quality difference in results for users. I think they missed this point when they got to the talk about current speaker implementation. If you turned on spacial now in your current setup - it would be able to use what you have and relieve some room issues... it may not be optimum for what you could achieve by moving your current speakers, adding more or replacing with different style of speaker though.

[@Audioholics]

agreed 100!

[@TriAmpHiFi]

Yamaha Digital Sound Field Processor ................ Owned one in '84. All I ended up doing was buying more amps, crossovers and drivers. The final result was like, "OH, so this is what Ozzy would sound like at the Notre-Dame Cathedral." Meh, fun experiment, then evolved further into 2-channel. Peace

[@anone3842]

Its hilarious that you misheard B&W as BMW in the car audio section - I was listening to an interview online with someone from Bowers & Wilkins and they said that was EXACTLY the reason they had to try and change the company name from B&W to Bowers & Wilkins - too many people were mishearing them and thinking they were from BMW! They had to get permission from the relations of original Bowers and Wilkins (who founded the original company) to use the names I think they said.

[@americanidle1277]

Is this basically selective noise cancelation and inter aural crosstalk cancellation with advanced bass management? Hybrid system

[@nagumaninagu9368]

Hi sir

[@gaurd3]

Seems like this past year it’s Dirac or bust. All other room corrections are chop liver no matter the user skill.

[@kace2006]

Dirac never really improved sound quality in my room. I'm using a NAD M10 V2

[@william1252]

I just need a way to make it so the lady who lives across the alley from me doesn't call the police for shaking her house.

[@peakoil-ko5oq]

How about inviting her over to watch a movie.

[@william1252]

You know Raul I was all game for inviting my immediate neighbors over for things like that and even throw a.small block party. I've got the system and the smoker for it.

[@william1252]

@@peakoil-ko5oq After her.and I had an understanding in which she would call me and ask me to turn it down and I would default to a yes totally and usually just turn it off, than one day she decides to call the police instead of me so it screams setup to me. The other neighbors have told me she's the kind of person that does things like that. She's my parents age divorced with the kids out of the house until recently one of them moved into a camper in her backyard so hopefully she aimes her ire that way. Lol

[@william1252]

@@peakoil-ko5oq oh by the way dude, she's my parents age and not quite my type. Lol

[@Chrisspru]

in a friends house the subwoofer of their system is set up in a way that creates a node just before the living room doorway. and basicly no bass exits the room that way. you can walk through the door from blasting bass to near silence, its eery. the sub is also decoupled from the ground with thick rubber and felt, while being weight down. so the air is shaking instead of the floor. they use dsp for a slight echo, harmonic bass and trebble extrapolation and transient amplification (i use the same), so the sound seems larger through frequency occupation, aided impulse and spacious echo. this makes it feel far louder than it actualy is, to the degree of allowing for whispering while feeling concert like musical intensity. completeness and intesity outshine volume

[@jtllodra6600]

Link to contact Matthew Poes

[@Audioholics]

Matt: [e-mail]

[@slipchuck1]

Will there still be music coming out of the active surround speakers?

[@jtllodra6600]

@@Audioholics thanks

[@Christopher._M]

Game changing sh** right here! Now all we need is for someone to make multiple AV Receivers working together to get 11-13 channels much cheaper Edit: seems like I talked to soon. Game changing both in sound and in the wallet hahaha. Full range speakers means big bucks and now the whole set up is in jeopardy ahahaha

[@operamatthew]

i never wanted a 14,000 processor so much

[@srtswpak47]

I'm late to the scene here, but this sounds to work like a Double Bass Array - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bass_array

[@C--A]

Completely different from a Bass Array - CES 2023: Dirac continues to push the boundaries of sound with introduction of Dirac Live Active Room Treatment JANUARY 5, 2023 The latest Dirac Live feature processes home theater audio as a unified system, not individual speakers, to eliminate boomy bass and deliver cleaner, tighter audio experiences in any room. LAS VEGAS, Nevada, January 5, 2023 - Swedish digital audio pioneer Dirac today announced the debut of Dirac Live Active Room Treatment, the latest in its family of award-winning Dirac Live features designed to address bass resonance and room decay time to produce a cleaner, tighter bass experience than ever before possible. Dirac Live Active Room Treatment will debut in all StormAudio AVRs through a Spring 2023 firmware update. “Dirac pioneered digital room correction through our impulse response optimization technology found in our acclaimed Dirac Live Room Correction feature,” stated Mathias Johansson, Dirac’s Chief Product Officer. “Now, with Active Room Treatment we are moving beyond traditional room correction to actually reduce bass decay times digitally, without needing bass traps or thick layers of wall absorption.” Dirac Live Active Room Treatment leverages Dirac’s expertise in MIMO mixed-phase impulse response correction technology to enable spatial optimization, whereby all speakers in a sound system cooperate with each other to accomplish what passive acoustic treatments struggle to achieve. With decay times reduced digitally and automatically, listeners experience clear sound devoid of boomy, smeared bass - as if the room itself didn’t exist. Until now, managing bass response and room reflections required physical sound dampeners to be installed on the walls or other areas. In contrast, Dirac Live Active Room Treatment works much like the popular Active Noise Cancellation technology, using the system’s own speakers to actively cancel out unwanted wavelengths originating from other speakers. This is achieved by measuring the entire setup as a unified system, instead of targeting each speaker individually, and applying advanced spatial optimization to the entire system based on the needs of each unique room. In many listening spaces, like home entertainment rooms, it can take a long time for bass to decay - or stop bouncing around the room - resulting in ringing or booming. Dirac Live Active Room Treatment automatically evaluates and adjusts the bass characteristics of the entire system, leveraging the strengths of each speaker to make up for any shortcomings in other speakers. This effectively turns passive speakers into active support units, strengthening the overall system. Continued Johansson, “By actively optimizing and coordinating bass response characteristics from all the speakers in a system, our latest Dirac Live feature reduces decay times to provide an incredibly dense and transparent audio experience in any room. Dirac Live Active Room Treatment complements the company’s existing Dirac Live features - Dirac Live Room Correction and Dirac Live Bass Control - to dramatically improve sound performance in any listening area. It can be used in any system with more than one speaker, with progressive performance enhancements based on the total speakers in the system. The more speakers a system has, the greater the effect of the spatial optimization. “Passive treatments for controlling low-end resonances have been around for years, but they’re not necessarily effective and require physical changes to the listening area, so most people don’t use them,” Johansson continued. “Dirac Active Room Treatment is the only solution available that reduces room decay time for a much clearer and tighter bass. StormAudio recognizes the transformative power of this world’s first technology and we look forward to its debut in Spring 2023.” Dirac Live Active Room Treatment will be included, at no additional fee, in all StormAudio Processors and AVRs ordered from January 1st 2023 onward and will be made available through a firmware update in Spring 2023. StormAudio products ordered before January 1st will be upgradeable with Dirac Live Active Room Treatment after the Spring 2023 firmware update and by purchasing a license from Dirac’s online store at $299.

[@srtswpak47]

@@C--A In principle, a Double Bass Array needs at least 2 speakers (just like Dirac ART) as one speaker effectively absorbs wavelengths of the other so that they aren't reflected in the room. I can't find where Dirac shows how exactly this works, but I can't imagine how it would work any differently.

[@C--A]

@@srtswpak47 A Double Bass Array (DBA) consists of two identical arrays of subwoofers. One on the front and one one on the rear side. The subwoofers have to be mounted on those identical positions on the front and rear walls. Whereas Dirac Active Room Treatment (ART) the subwoofers don't have to be in identical positions. Don't need wall mounted subwoofers either. Plus a lot more software, algorithms going on helping the cancellation to reduce the bass decay from the subs & speakers. Dirac Active Room Treatment does seem a lot simpler and much easier to implement into a room than Double Bass Array. Whether it's better more effective we will find out soon...

[@srtswpak47]

@@C--A Oh of course. But how it works is the same in principle. The DBA without question will function better, but it's totally impractical for most everyone. A SBA which involves a subwoofer array on the front wall and then like 2 feet deep of insulation on the back wall is likewise impractical for most. Dirac ART is indeed exciting and can be implemented in every room.

[@Samzep]

Hi gene why you so obsessed with the other seats in your room for your bass ? All that counts is your seat haha

[@Audioholics]

Haha I care about my guests 😅

[@Samzep]

@@Audioholics lol no guest aloud in my room haha its one man show

[@Audioholics]

@@Samzep savage!

[@Samzep]

@@Audioholics oh I forgot to say only my German shep

[@TomBartol]

I want to ask my wife if i can buy another subwoofer.... now i'm homeless

[@filmses]

😂😂😂

[@Skye_the_toller]

Multi sub… can you make a discussion also about cost vs results? A 3000$ sub, or 2 x 1500$ or for 700$ sub!!!

[@ashleybugler215]

It's not dee rack. It's Dye rack. It's simple English pronunciation.

[@LuleNorrbotten]

The company name Dirac is in honor of Paul Dirac, the physicist, whose name is pronounced /dɪˈræk/. Btw it is originally a French name, so a French pronounciation would also be correct.