5 Mistakes You're Probably Making Causing Bad Sound

[@johnlira3316]

Keep these vids that show proper set up coming very informative plus pictures adds to the information said thx

[@ednunpourtahmasbi605]

Great video with some really good tips there. I have no eyesight so sound is incredibly important to me and I love home theatre. I think I'm consciously making about 4 out of 5 of those mistakes in your video but sadly, because of the way my room is designed, there's really nothing else we can do. WE also have a giant light fitting in the centre of our 4 Atmos ceiling speakers which is probably playing merry hell with the imaging. What I've found interesting over the last year and a half, is to tune the system to get around all those issues. I think I've done a fairly good job actualy but it's required a lot of EQ on the SVS sub, a lot of management of individual speakers and you're right, you're forever battling with how high should I have those rears when you sit so close to them and the fronts are almost 3 meters away. Anyway, cheers dude keep up the good work.

[@TylerStout]

1) Guilty, but it's a living room and I don't have any other options sadly, hoping I can get a few more inches when i add a 4" thick absorption panel. 2) Totally agree and another thing that you didn't mention is that a lot of times you might not even be able to hit +/- 20 degrees of separation with your LR let alone the ideal +/- 30 degrees so on top of the acoustic issues you mentioned you also won't be getting good soundstage width. A 120 inch screen is only 110 inch wide or 9.16 feet so you figure 3-6 inches to the sides of the screen/speaker to the tweeter puts you getting 8.16 to 8.67 feet of separation between LR so 20 degrees would be 11.2-11.9 ft viewing distance (42.5-40.5 degree fov which is around thx spec) and 30 degrees would be 7-7.5ft viewing distance (63.4-60.3 deg fov which is way too much). If you're doing a scope screen you're probably in better shape though without doing the math. 3) Agreed 4) Completely agree I was guilty of this until I got my UMIK-1 and did measurements and both subs had almost identical response then I moved them to opposing corners and my SO complained about the level matched subs being louder lol 5) this is my plan I can't do a ton because WAF but I do want to get some absorption on my back and front walls (for SBIR) as I definitely got some zing if I clap where my speakers are.

[@YC305]

I understood the importance of room acoustics after I upgraded my home theater system for a one that was at least 3000 dollars more expensive and it sounded almost the same as the cheaper one. It didn’t sound at all like how they sounded at the store. 😢

[@sarges1712]

so glad I watched this. was having issues w/ my Definitive Tech 8060HD center last week when I started fooling around in the av settings. Ever since then I've been wondering what's going on with my towers, well, turns out I mistakenly or not set them to large. While watching this I set them back to small and everything is all good again.

[@SomeGuyNamedPaul49]

I've seen it twice where setting the center channel to large fixed clarity issues, which really makes no sense to me at all but it just worked. Both times it was with a Yamaha receiver and disabling YPAO didn't affect it, but that all may easily be a red herring.

[@andreasmoller9798]

The most common mistake is to have the speakers to close to the backwall. While you will get more bass volume it will ruin the sound. I did that mistake by my self. After having 2-3 feet from the wall the sound become so much better

[@dustind5176]

2:42. That back row is a great place for a small dry bar. As long as the glasses/bottles don't rattle, you get a small diffraction effect.

[@pedroluciano2643]

As an a/v integrator installer for 27 yr. i can tell you you get the room you get and far too many times no permission for acoustics. I insist on curtains/ blackouts when possible, as strategically as possible and it helps a lot. Also area rugs, lots of pretty cushions around the seating area, etc. But far from ideal is very common. We mange, directional in ceiling speaker if possible, 2 sealed subs in corners, etc. it works ok. Never as good as it could be but vast majority of clients end up very happy.

[@wiltzp1212]

Very good suggestions, all valid and true. Just putting a sub right into the corner is something i'd never recommend doing. Although with 4 subs in each corner it might be a bit better (never actually tried or measured that myself). A good and capable sub works better when not "cornered" all the way. A placement somewhere along the wall will be optimal. Also its worth noting that most people, even the ones who are pretty serious about their sound/HC, will still propably have a single sub or 2 at most.

[@Audioholics]

Corner loading 2 or 4 subs is usually the best way to position subs. You get max gain and excite all the room modes. Then you EQ out bumps to benefit every seat.

[@wiltzp1212]

​@@Audioholics its true you get max gain that way, but whenever you get max gain, you also tend to get very uneven response, at least thats my experience. So basically you get big bumps, but also big dips. EQing out bumps might not be too bad, doing something with big dips however is almost impossible. Then again, I havent tried with as many subs as 4 and in every corner. Might be that the dips are not so severe? With 1 sub in a corner for example, absolutely every room/sub i've ever tried has given quite uneven response. For music this is usually not desireable, for movies I guess max gain is more useful than even response over a wider fr range

[@Audioholics]

@@wiltzp1212 I don't do single sub installs ever. But in such a case, you will have to experiment with placement for sure.

[@fransschmidt3906]

'Mother-in-law- seats'...hahaha. Nice one, Gene!

[@martyjewell5683]

Nice video. Few you tubers touch on standing waves and room nodes. Yet these anomalies (?) can prevent your system from achieving its potential.

[@LA-db9xj]

Although I would love to have a dedicated and functional room for my HT setup. But at this point I'm pretty sure I never will again for the following 5 reasons. 1. All of the rooms in the house currently serve a purpose already. Guestroom, home office, exercise and game rooms. 2. Current room is totally pre-wired and has in-ceiling speakers. 3. With receiver's "room-correction", current setup actually sounds very good. 4. Don't have another room where my 85"Sony TV on the wall would actually be as effective and enjoyable. 5. The BIGGEST reason. I'm not old, but I am too old to dismantle all of this gear and move it to another room!

[@namegoeshere2903]

Just a hint...when you put up pictures or graphics...drop the on screen banners...you are blocking the very portions you are illustrating (even you noted this 80% into the video)

[@Novilicious]

I am guilty of running my towers Large or full-range 😅 but I agree bass management is the way to go. But I’m holding out…there’s just something special about running full range for music 🙌

[@GamerWordDotNet]

If you don't have a sub, large is fine. With a subwoofer it should be on small, so the AV can set a proper crossover for the sub.

[@Novilicious]

@@GamerWordDotNet I run my mains full range and then manually run stereo subs (I run dual Rel Sub S510’s user over high-level) so I’m like the black sheep of the Audioholics community 🤣

[@ch33psk8]

Got both my 10" and 12" subs wide at the back, (5.2.4 setup) so for mine, I like to just keep only front mains on large to blend in some punch with the screen visuals.

[@AntonSafonov]

@@jasonkillsformomy I'm pretty sure most speakers can't play first minutes of "Edge of Tomorrow". My long stroke 1kW subs at 30% almost hit the wall there. AFAIR, it's between 9 and 20Hz there. Lots of ordinary speakers are designed for music, but not movies.

[@AntonSafonov]

@@jasonkillsformomy which one is it? "speakers are designed to be used alone" - this is clearly not true for home theater.

[@jvw97]

I'd really like to see some advice on how to handle non-rectangular rooms. My apartment living room is L-shaped and open to the kitchen and I cannot find anywhere to put my 2 subs where I can actually hear them in my seat.

[@Tearial311]

My next home theater project is lowering the ambient noise level down to 40db

[@JimLigon]

This video is awesome. There is some great information & advice for those of us planning on building a home theater in the near future. Thank you, bro.

[@canadianatlas]

I've been knowingly guilty of #5 for years now. Glass and tile everywhere. In my defense, the views are great when the (fairly thick) curtains are open. Earlier this year I put a rug with a pad underneath in front of the TV, and it noticeably improved the sound. This change on its own was almost like getting better speakers. I highly recommend getting a rug and a pad underneath it if you have tile or hardwood floors and care about sound.

[@richard975]

i have a 5.1 with the two full size rear speakers to my left and right. i put two tiny tweeters just behind me in the corners of the room in series with the rear speakers and it sounds amazing. any thoughts on why this worked so well?

[@tedtimmis8135]

Excellent suggestions!

[@asx1248]

Please Gene, tell us more about what REW can tell us about our rooms through decay 60, spectograms, clarity etc. and then what we can do to address problems based on measurements. With the team you can assemble I'm sure you'd make a great video on it.

[@ryanw8664]

This advice is very helpful and good to know. However, what would be even more helpful is advice on how best to setup a system when once cannot avoid placing their couch against a back wall.

[@C--A]

Gene Audioholics etc have already said many times before there's not much you can do to improve sitting against a back wall. And if you watched properly 3:30 Gene does have advice that slightly helps for seats against the back wall. Placing absorption panel/panels directly behind/above on the back wall.

[@ryanw8664]

​@@C--A I appreciate the tip on absorption panels. Still, I believe a video generally dedicated to how to improve sound in a *realistic* living room environment would be appreciated by a lot of folks. Advice for an ideal setup is well-established at this point. Creative workarounds for less ideal setups is the real challenge.

[@C--A]

@@ryanw8664 A video of living room set-ups for movie watching would be useful for those without dedicated home cinema's. My movie/music room is also my living room. Had ceramic tiles and 4 bare windows on one side when I moved in. Was a echo chamber lol. Thick underlay with a carpet and blinds plus a velvet curtain eliminated the audible room echoes. Plus putting furniture sofa etc in, It was a night and day difference in sound quality! Good speaker placements and ideal sitting position gave me a nice experience with music and movies. I still wanted even better sound quality so placed 4 inch depth absorption panels with front scattering plates. And 6 inch depth hybrid cylindrical absorber/diffusers on the reflection points. Plus a few wooden diffusers around the room. Is a living room (a small one) so massive corner bass traps were out of the question. Making a living room look nice with acoustic room treatments is the hardest thing. But these days you can get absorption panels with your family photos or a cool artwork printed on the acoustic fabric. And diffusers with the slats/ridges painted different colours that look like nice wooden wall art.

[@ryanw8664]

@@C--A Nice, dude! Sounds like you went to a lot of trouble making the best of a less than ideal listening space. I think you should make a video about it, I'd watch it =D

[@jmmontegnies9311]

Very interesting and useful video as usually. Thank you and congratulations. Your channel is a reference for audio. Greetings from Belgium 🙂

[@ch33psk8]

Thanks for sharing pro tips Gene. Got both my 10" and 12" subs wide at the back, (5.2.4 setup) so for mine, I like to just keep only front mains on large to blend in some punch with the on-screen visuals.

[@JoseSorianoPhotography]

Is it recommended to put a slat wall behind the TV? I was thinking about aesthetics and improving sound quality. I intend to put 2 on-wall speakers beside the TV and a center speaker because the house is prewired. This is an open family room

[@pablosarti1216]

Hi thanks for the video. Should I set my Dali zensor 7 front speakers to small? Even though I have no subwoofer? I have a vokal Dali centre speaker also in large. Thanks.

[@Audioholics]

@pablosarti1216 no. If you don't have any powered subs, run your mains full-range.

[@pablosarti1216]

@@Audioholics thanks SO much for answering. Front in large and centre in small. Till I can buy the subwoofer. Correct? Thanks!!!

[@VonMagXL]

200ms baby! 25 PSB speakers means plenty of spatial clues already 8n the home theater. My Carver ribbon room averages 450ms. All room treatments are Dr. Toole blend into the room approved (thick drapes, bricks, bookshelves and carpeting strategically placed along with thick tapestry art in Key early reflection points (not Toole approved, but I have Front Wides and upmixing options like Logic 7 from a Lexicon MC-1 expanded to 11.1 with Scatmos via 7.1 inputs). Holographic real sounding daddy!

[@ryanmcfarland1900]

With my Polk L600s, I find setting the crossover to 40hz sounds the best by far for music. I know my subs aren't great (Polk 660s), but I don't seem to lose anything by setting a low crossover.

[@jimhamlin6551]

MY room is a small area 15x13 x9 ft ceiling height and my sofa is a foot from back wall with #3 sub behindthe sofa and front speakers and my rack and tv are 3 ft from the wall behind them with 2 subs up front with 4 height speakers and 7 in the main and all levels of speakers are set manually with sound pressure meter and all distances are right on ...there are no bare walls with sound absorbing hangings ...the walls are made of plaster not dry wall ...after doing a clap test.. it is not dead and not to live and there is no boomy bass ...it is all deep and tight and punch you in the face effect and the Audyssey did correct a unwanted off sounding bass from the subs...all with good height action ..when its there and good separation ..provided with the excellent OPPO 205 ...quite happy with this set up and sound for movies and music and when I am ready to do an up grade thinking of the Marantz Cinema Series ..thanks for all the help and added tips ..it all helps with the fine tuning ..!

[@martindavila2232]

If I have my CF-3s bi-amped should I still set them to small?

[@iampuzzleman282]

Next time I see you were a party I'm gonna talk to you about the decay Time. It sounds fascinating

[@astroporpoise7802]

"Mother-in-law seats" LOL, your remarks are killing me. Love the videos, I'm binging right now :)

[@thomaswachter7782]

Such a wonderful video.

[@NY411Info]

Speaking about a room with hard surfaces and echo, a thick wall to wall carpet can help a lot to absorb that echo. I've heard systems installed in that environment. Just talking in the room isn't pleasant.

[@AV84USA]

Question: At 6:49 you say it’s better to keep a subwoofer “coupled” to the floor and avoid raising it. I have my Paradigm sub on a raised Auralex Isolation Pad. Is that bad?

[@Audioholics]

No I meant raising it significantly off the floor like mid wall height...

[@iampuzzleman282]

So my sofa is on my back wall and my head is about 8 inches from the wall. And yes the pressure amplitudes reverberating inside my skull maybe killing me. So I put absorb some panels along the wall immediately behind me. But if I do die my tombstone will read he died while listening to music

[@techsamurai11]

What is the best seat at a commercial movie theater? I always buy tickets in the center 1-2 rows from the rear.

[@dragonstone6594]

Great advice Gene.

[@itsratso.]

hey just thinking, you should do a video explaining how to read and interpret basic messurement graphs.

[@justlisten1]

very helpful video. Thanks! For sub placement as you recommended, what about Arendal subs? They recommend to place them on the front right corner of the room. Even multiple subs need to be stacked. Does this mean Arendals are not ideal for HT?

[@ianmoone1138]

The 1 hour consultation link in the description appears to be broken. Can you please fix and resend here? Thank you so much!

[@mikegoddard7354]

what is you have a square room? subwoofer placement. my room is screwed 14' x 15'. I know it's bad news but it's my largest room I can occupy

[@JesusSavesSinners]

You said it is good to put your Base Subwoofer on the Floor. I watched another AV expert say that is the worst thing to do. Your carpeting will muffel the sound. He said put it on a Speaker stand at ear level. There is a huge difference of opinions when it comes to setting up a Home Theater from Profesionals who install $50,000.00 and up Home Theater rooms. The contradictions are mind boggling. I bought a Speaker stand for my SVS 1000 Base Subwoofer. I like the sound much better.

[@Audioholics]

Subwoofers belong on the floor or in the ceiling in all cases except when using Trinnov's new Waveforming technology. Anyone telling you to put subwoofers on stands doesn't understand acoustics or bass propagation very well.

[@ThunderFootLevin]

Nice sound from your mic. More audio shows should invest in their soundquality as you do

[@williamtomkiel8215]

that back wall thing . . . that would be the fact that in a 10 x 10 ish room, the 18" space behind the throne is taken up by 2x 30" THTLP's that are pointed at the ceiling, the smaller 24" is in the right front corner, on a stand, pointed at the floor. throw a minidsp 2x4 at them and there seems to be fewer issues. my DITSG HT8's mains at about 7-ish from me - all blends together very well.

[@aussieexpat]

We need more room treatment rew guides!

[@GB-je5tc]

Good reminderS ole chap... THX

[@adrianbarac3063]

Great work again, Gene :)

[@crazydwarfer]

Cool, thanks for the vid. Looking forward to the video with Anthony Grimani as always. Baffle wall building for speakers behind the AT screen is very undercovered topic. Would love to hear about such wall best practices as well as building the wall where only one speaker is behind the wall, and LR are spread further to achieve a better stereo separation.

[@cristiandiaz6333]

How effective or ineffective is the use of external sound cards combined (connected) with audio mixers when streaming from a PC?. Is there a particular combination that works best?

[@garykarczewski6678]

Regarding Large Speaker settings. In my AVR and Subs I have cross over points which can be setup for both the Mains and Subs. So, wouldn't that resolve cancelation issues?

[@brainguynyc8729]

Addressing #3; does this include towers with built in subs such as goldenear and some def techs?

[@victorpulos823]

Would in wall subwoofers be fine to do this with in wall speakers or speakers behind the screen on the wall?

[@Boxkerp]

In my 2 channel setup, my integrated has a set of preamp outputs that I use to connect to my SB-1000 pro subs. Is it better to connect both channels to both subs or one channel for each sub?

[@mauriceshivers1557]

How can I start the process for the consultation? I have more questions first, like cost. Do you have an email? Thanks

[@stitch1007]

Could you speak a bit more to the subwoofer being on the floor vs elevated? I am in the process of finishing a theater and my current plan was to raise them off the floor.

[@AntoG4RS]

Hello, I have a Yamaha RX-A2050 and I noticed that when.I set my front speakers to small, there is a strange distortion on bass and trebles. For example when I try to reproduce single sine frequency like 16kHz it sounds like it is producing armonics while when I set them to full range it plays clean. Do you think I have a defective DSP?

[@michael-4k4000]

Does anyone know if its a bad idea to have different rear surround channel speakers? have 3 Kef L/C/R and was wondering if i should stick with Kef for the surround channels or try a different brand. Any thoughts?

[@janthomassrensen1065]

It´s generally best to have the same sound signature all the way around. So surrounds in the same series as your fronts. Preferbly surrounds that have the same units as your LCR´s to ensure timber matching.

[@mephInc]

If you already have speakers and don't have the budget for new ones, use what you have. However, as the other reply stated, it's best to stick with the same brand and series to get the best results.

[@jim586]

My answer to your question is go with what you’ve got. People in this hobby can(not always) become too obsessive about timbre matching, same tonal characteristics etc etc etc. A lot of the time it’s just men’s* obsessive behaviours to have matching badges on the grills! The tonal balance of a speaker can change dramatically when off axis so there’s a fair argument to say it’s not so vital to have identical drivers, timbre matched speakers everywhere. I have listened to many systems and with home cinema, I would suggest the image/action dominates the experience. The sound , of course, is very very important but as long as the sound system is balanced you can be more than happy. Additionally, with modern calibration systems like Dirac et al, speakers can be made to work much better as a collective whole. The listening habit difference between 2 channel music listening is huge. With two channel Hifi you will listen to the same tracks over and over again over many years. They become like old friends and you can and will hear differences in the recordings. With Home cinema, it’s a movie. You’ll watch it once and experience it in the moment and then it’s done, over with, finished. You may watch it again many times or you may say “that’s 2 hours I’ll never get back”. You use a few clips for demo purposes and to help improve levels, positioning etc and this is useful. Cheers *it’s always men.

[@kovrcek]

I'm running my towers LR (ported) as Large because the sound feels much more full (they can go to 30Hz). I really tried Small but no my ears prefer Large. Didn't know that it could cancel out the bass, but I can't imagine how if they can go to "only" 30Hz and sub can go to 15Hz. Does it have to do something with like double-frequency? 30Hz can cancel out 15Hz?

[@Herofmine]

Hi Gene, my room is small 11x13 and my couch is close the wall, running 5.2.2 setup, however I want to add rear speakers but I will be too close to them, what would you suggest? I’ve been thinking in wall or bipolar speaker to cover side and rear.

[@Herofmine]

@@Antibackgroundnoise I have 4 atmos and 2 subs, but need to add additional amp to power two pair of front atmos and rear channels if I add them.

[@Herofmine]

@@Antibackgroundnoise no, Anthem AVM 70

[@Cakebattered]

Gene should do a video on infinite baffle subwoofers.

[@kmidst_kn6329]

Upvoted for the shirt

[@stefanbrony7905]

In the video you said to set al the speakers on "small speaker" and let the sub do the work of all the bass from 80Hz down, but when i do that it sounds worse then letting al my speakers go full range. My front speakers go below 20Hz so i actually don't need the sub but its nice to have some extra punch below 25 Hz. Is this something that can vary between setups/rooms? Is it the heavy DSP that i use or am i just weird?

[@Audioholics]

time alignment between the speakers and subs is critical otherwise you will have bass issues. If you prefer your speakers set large and they can handle the bass, go for it.

[@PramodRamnath]

Hi Gene. I treated my room and now have an RT60 of about 200ms 100 Hz and up. Is this too low? It's a 16x13x8 room.

[@Audioholics]

As long as it's flat and even and not just decaying high F, you might be OK. It's pretty dead tho. If you can't have a normal conversation in thwt room without it sounding dead, you may have went a little overboard. It can be forgivable with a high channel count but too sterile for 2CH listening, IMO.

[@PramodRamnath]

@@Audioholics gotcha. They're GIK all the way. And it's a consistent flat 200 ms response all the way through from 100 Hz. ita quite clinical I might add. Have the svs prime pinnacles and the SB 2000 pro with the model 40n from Marantz. Can crank it up and it does sound good. However like you said. The decay is quite fast. Anyhow.

[@PramodRamnath]

@@jasonkillsformomy SVS prime pinnacles and SVS sb 2000 pro with Marantz Model 40n

[@PramodRamnath]

@@jasonkillsformomy yes sir. About 10 feet apart and toed in not so aggressively. But a toe in nonetheless. I could try dispersion on the first side reflection. Thanks!

[@C--A]

@@PramodRamnath How many absorption panels (& corner bass traps if any) in your room do you have? You could try GIK Impression Pro Series or 2A Alpha Series. Both are fiberglass absorption with a front scattering plate for scattering. And also diffusion in the Alpha Series case.

[@dancharron7098]

So my plans of making a food conssestion stand at the back and a computer sit down area at the back is smart then. As the first row that is at the back or say central of 2 love seat type wide like yours but like 2 wide no center and in front its 2 wing sized beds. So you can enjoy it anytime. See my plans is to build thuscroom to finished status and use it to live in until I get to finish the rest of the house. Call it man cave to the max and then build the rest of the rooms to perfection. So for example here bottom is entertainment. Top level is bedrooms with a common area call it TV room/library Music room Den. Then the first floor has a Bar/Kitchen with pool table and arcade machines. So this is a 36x40 ICF house. Flat roof as well with a patio on top. The theater was thinking of 20X22 to allow an entrance and stairs in the next 12 feet.

[@ryanschipp8513]

Hey Gene! So is it safe to say that your in wall JL subwoofers are at the bottom of the wall so they can couple with your floor?

[@Audioholics]

Yes but they are still a compromise to a box sub on the floor but a necessary one due to space.

[@ryanschipp8513]

@@Audioholics ok, thanks:)

[@thiagodelgado3128]

Can Dirac live solve this issue like audyssey? on 10 Hz?

[@jasonschubert6828]

I am sure I am making plenty of mistakes, but glad to see they are not in the top 5! 😆

[@tyroneearnest4513]

Consultation with Gene link broken :(

[@keithiegee1]

What about if you’re using REL subs with high level inputs? I would love to see Gene and the Audioholics team do a video on REL’s 3D audio concept. Using separate subs to underpin centre, fronts, surrounds and run them as large 20-20k speakers.

[@Audioholics]

There is absolutely no reason to EVER use high level inputs on a sub when your preamp already has a line level connection and bass management.

[@iampuzzleman282]

My subwoofer is a very very large and it don't matter where you put it. And I put stuff on it because it's a nice damn table. But I do you have isolation doodads on the legs to isolate it I think works.

[@PeckiePeck]

I've done so much fiddling with my speaker placement and subwoofer settings and I just cannot make my speakers sound better set to "small" than to "large." Every. Single. Time. When I change over to "large," it unmistakably sounds better.

[@Audioholics]

If you got Large to work with your system along with your subs than congrats! It's often challenging to accomplish. FYI, 2 of my 3 multi-ch systems use large fullrange towers with separate subs. Most people struggle to get proper bass integration with this type of set up.

[@PeckiePeck]

@@Audioholics Yeah I really don't know what it is. I don't have huge speakers. I have Bowers and Wilkins 606 bookshelves, an Episode Evolution 12 active subwoofer, and a Denon AVR-2805. I'm getting crisp, assertive bass and the three-dimensional imaging. I'm also using a 120 hz crossover point and *I swear* it's the best option. When I tried it, I immediately knew it was right.

[@fredygump5578]

I recall Ethan Winer saying that if you are going to be close to a back wall, it's better to be right against the wall than to be slightly away from it. (I think that's more music listening advice than home theater.

[@Audioholics]

You never want to be against a back wall and I highly doubt Ethan would say that.

[@fredygump5578]

@@Audioholics I didn't say "want"! 😜 It was more like making the best of a sub-optimal situation, and it factored in absorption, obviously. I'm sitting against a wall, getting flat bass down to 20hz. I'm not just saying that--I've measured it a lot! I'm doing a DIY speaker project, learning to optimize multiple subs...

[@C--A]

@@fredygump5578 Easy simple test is to listen to a movie or song with a decent amount of bass. First in your current seat against the back wall, then move a chair forward to 3 quarters of the length of the room. It will sound audibly better, more pleasant sounding in the better second orientation. But yeah unfortunately not everyone can place their listening position in the ideal placement. Some compromises big or small are made by almost everyone. Minimise them as best as you can and just enjoy the movie/music. 🔊🎬🎶

[@fredygump5578]

@@C--A Ok. Here it is. There is always a reflection off the back wall and a corresponding null at the seating position. The closer you are to the wall, the higher the frequency of the null. If you are very close to the wall, that reflection will be a high enough frequency that it can be absorbed by a decent absorber, meaning that null goes away. You reference some idea of "better" sound. I don't know what you are talking about, "Better" isn't measurable. Someone once said, "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture." Are you talking about uneven frequency resonse near the walls due to exciting room nodes? Or are you talking about the ratio of direct sound to reflected sound? As I commented above, I have an extremely flat in room frequency response from 20hz to 20khz at my listening positions (near a back wall). Frequency response in my kitchen, which is off to the side of the speakers, is also quite flat. I think I already explained that I'm using multiple subwoofers to control low frequency issues, right?

[@C--A]

@@fredygump5578 A absorption panel/panels directly behind on the back wall will audibly reduce the audible back reflections to a decent degree. But it won't change the fact that the peaks and nulls will be much worse sitting beside the back wall. Than if you calculated the ideal seating position. In a ideal shaped room usually sitting roughly 38% from the front wall or 38% from the back wall will offer the best compromise for peaks & nulls. In your case directly behind the back wall you are seated in one of the worst positions for peaks and nulls. Which will be audible heard when listening to music, watching movies, some absorption panels on the back wall won't fix it! It is better sound sitting in the ideal seating position rather than sitting against the back wall. It's fact showing by measurements, and also sounds audibly better to the ear. I've experimented in my room as have plenty of other people. I've not seen one person who said it sounds audibly better with the seat against the back wall. Multiple subs and room EQ will only do so much for the peaks and nulls etc of the physical room. But placing the main seat in the ideal position or close enough will reduce the peaks and nulls etc much more. You would get a better overall audible experience if you moved your seating to the ideal or thereabouts seating position. But you can't, everyone has compromises so just make the most of the setup you have. And simply enjoy the music/movies 👍🏾

[@stevec3537]

Gene, you should set up your own room more like what you suggest. Those very expensive Revels are too close to the wall, there's nothing to prevent SBIR, hard floors... it looks like a case of "do what I say, not what I do". "All these people... they buy all this incredible equipment ... and they put it in a room that's an echo chamber" like your room. I'm not trying to be mean - I like your videos - but that room, your family and that system deserves a better room.

[@Audioholics]

My office upstairs has issues for sure but I do have acoustic treatments on the ceiling that help and it's an office. My family room system sounds phenomenal and the RT60 decay is about 600msec. It's not an echo chamber so your assumption is false. This is better than what I see from a very prominent KZbin reviewer that does all his reviews in a similar room with worse acoustics by his own admission. You can't always make multipurpose rooms perfect and that's why I have my theater room which is a culmination of the best practices I preach.

[@stevec3537]

@@Audioholics Totally understand and agree. Then again, it's an office with $16k speakers... just sayin.

[@Audioholics]

@@stevec3537 yea it's a first world problem 😁

[@stangman50]

How tall is your riser for back row?

[@Audioholics]

11 inches

[@outofit08]

do you still offer consultations? Your link is down.

[@Audioholics]

Yes, where you getting the link from?

[@DanielHog13]

From the link you attached. Just tried it myself, did not open. Great tips & vid BTW. 👍

[@shinvergil]

5:15 what speakers are those?

[@Jason-sr3pr]

Perlisten

[@michael-4k4000]

Gene, is it OK to use a ported and sealed sub? I own a 12" Paradigm ported sub and want to add a 13" SVS sealed sub. What are your thoughts?

[@Audioholics]

tread carefully. If you don't properly integrate them, you will cancel bass at and below the tuning freq of the ported sub.

[@michael-4k4000]

@@Audioholics so would you recommend NOT doing that?

[@zubidoc]

Спасибо!

[@Audioholics]

Thank you my friend.

[@zubidoc]

@@Audioholics This is the least I can do to express my gratitude for everything you do for audioholics around the world. Thank you Gene!

[@scottwallace1]

With all due respect, the 80Hz advice does not apply when very capable front speakers are involved. 80Hz crossovers are relevant when you’ve got smallish main speakers that are not designed for full range performance. But if you have very capable full range or nearly full range speakers, you are effectively redesigning the speaker when you neuter it by so fundamentally altering its natural performance characteristics. Those who look at graphs to determine if their system is set up ‘right’ are missing the boat. Speakers have a natural roll off as a part of their design, and then you have the ‘acoustic crossover’ which is what the room is doing to that speaker’s frequency response. Let the mains run down to that point to set your crossover. This will be much lower than 80Hz if you have a Wilson or B&W 800 series or other highly capable and dynamic full range performer.

[@Audioholics]

You missed the point. The majority of HT enthusiasts don't have Wilson speakers or towers with true deep bass extension at meaningful output levels. In those cases, bass management is the way to go along with multiple subs. That said, I run fullrange towers in most of my systems but I also know how to properly time align and blend subs/speakers together to not cause problematic cancellations. This isn't always a trivial matter. If you're not measuring the system response, and you don't have the knowledge for proper integration, you will be better served bass managing your front speakers.

[@johnsmith-qz4bv]

great video ..

[@iampuzzleman282]

I believe commonsense prevails while setting up your audio equipment. You don't need no fancy it acoustical equipment. Listening to good sound it's kind a like watching porn you know it when you see it or hear it or both

[@murbella7]

Your description banner is so big and bright it hides picture detail, including things your point out to us. BUT we can't see them.

[@Audioholics]

I realized that after I shot the video. :( I will expand upon this in a future video.

[@Bradimus1]

I have the wall problem and they setup the room poorly and put the theater all to one side of a roughly rectangular room. with it already having a projector hung, screen on the wall, the windows, and the wiring, it just wasn't worth fixing that they did almost everything wrong.

[@centurion8446]

Good stuff

[@aussie_philosopher8079]

This is what I like about being single. My house is designed around my surround sound system, my place my rules 🤙

[@murbella7]

Other sessions you show with your expert shows how bad the 4-in-the-corner subs option is so bad.

[@Audioholics]

We have never shown or said 4 corner loaded subs is bad. Not sure where you saw that, but not on Audioholics.

[@TheGameTunes]

It's interesting that you give the exact opposite advice to Dennis from Acoustic Fields on the matter of subwoofer placement. He would say you need to get the sub raised and off the floor whereas you state the opposite. Who's correct?

[@Audioholics]

That is completely ridiculous advice and goes against decades of research by the likes of Harman and others on sound field management and room modal analysis. Subwoofers place on the floor or ceiling gives you up to 6db of boost as opposed to lifting them off the ground.

[@Audioholics]

@@jasonkillsformomy Great post!

[@kenkaminskyj3170]

why leave the banner on screen ?

[@Audioholics]

Made a mistake in a video about mistakes 😕

[@SwirlingDragonMist]

Nice

[@DexterDaTech]

Your lower 3rd is blocking everything. cant see anything on that part of screen.

[@HeavyMetalSonicRM]

I have my Klipsch RP-280s set to small with the crossover at 40Hz instead of the usual 80Hz because certain bass in films and games sound much better through them than they do the subs. For music, it's full range with no subs because the kick drum sounds better through the mains than the subs.

[@Audioholics]

Sounds like you don't have your sub properly integrated into your system.

[@madcrabber1113]

What model/s subs do you have and how are they configured?

[@HeavyMetalSonicRM]

@@madcrabber1113 I have two 12" Klipsch subs from the same Reference Premier line. Fronts, center and surrounds are at 75db with an old school Radioshack meter and subs are at 72db because I read that the meter doesn't read low frequences as well. Subs are set to LFE (not LFE+Main) and LPF is 120. I get tons of LFE for films, but around 40-50Hz sounds better and stronger from mains.

[@TylerStout]

@@HeavyMetalSonicRM I'd wager one or both of your subs are in a null. If you can swing it try opposing corners. Sounds weird but it truely made a monumental difference in my setup and is one of the suggested layouts discussed in Harman's multi subwoofer white paper. If that doesn't sound better get a calibrated microphone but don't do the subwoofer crawl as that's a waste of time when you have more than one subwoofer.

[@pulDag]

without microphone and proper measurement you are pretty much clueless what the response is.

[@Milkmans_Son]

Below 20?

[@marksomer5790]

After watching you for along time, I am now very smart. But of course no where near as smart as you !

[@liamporter1137]

I find home cinema setup unpleasant to the eyes ☹️.

[@loshopeful718]

If the only option for dual subs is the front wall, how far apart should they be?

[@Audioholics]

Ideally in the corners but 1/4 and 3/4 L of the wall is good.

[@wolfmanjacksaid]

Great tips! Re: large speakers, in the Audioholics review of the Arendal 1723 S towers it suggested not setting them as small speakers. I recently got these, and happy with them but unsure how to integrate my subwoofer namely to set the LPF for LFE in my Denon receiver (x6700h), the lowest setting allowed is 80Hz. Any suggestion? Thanks

[@djlytic4603]

You want LPF set as high as possible without distorting your subwoofer

[@TylerStout]

Keep in mind that playing bass takes a lot of power and assuming you're just using the x6700h as an amplifier you're robbing yourself of overall headroom especially when it's trying to power 11 speakers. Your subwoofer probably has 1000W+ amp so it's taking a lot of the load off the amps in the AVR when using a crossover. My suggestion would be to get a UMIK-1 and take measurements to find the ideal spot for your crossover. Depending on how many subwoofers you have you might find that there's holes in the bass that the subwoofer has due to room modes or that your speakers have room modes or SBIR (sound boundary interference response) that your subwoofer can fill so taking measurements is the only way to ensure that nothing screwy is happening. Nobody can tell what a good crossover is but those are good speakers so whatever crossover your room dictates should be useful for getting great sound. :)

[@jmmontegnies9311]

Hi jane. A little question about subwoofer. If you place 2 subs front and 2 subs back (in the corner for instance), is it necessary to inverse the phase (180°) of the subs placed in the back or the room or not?

[@Audioholics]

Depends how they integrate. You really need to measure their combined output to determine that.

[@jmmontegnies9311]

@@Audioholics Thank you very much. How canal I measure that correctly?

[@SimplestUsername]

@@jmmontegnies9311 I would challenge this idea of omni directional sub placement all together. 1) Most low frequencies are directionally ambiguous. Also, the smaller the space the worse low frequency directionally gets. I believe the lowest frequency individuals have been able to distinguish is about 120hz, and that's in a perfectly treated large space. Where as the THX standard cross over is at 80hz which is a frequency where subs are absolutely directionality mute. 2) You're going to ruin the frequency response throughout the room with placement like this by creating tons of phasing in for form of comb filtering. To understand this phenomenon I highly recommend the following video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHfPmoFve8SAhLs

[@jmmontegnies9311]

@@SimplestUsername Thank you very much for your message.

[@jmmontegnies9311]

@@SimplestUsername if I understand the vidéo, it's better to place two subwoofers at the same place, one above the other than one left and one right. What do you think of 4 subs: 2 placed front left and right and 2 placed back left and right ?

[@timberwolves100]

The 'Mother-in-law' Seats 🤣