Audiophiles! Are you ready to consider a subwoofer?

Are you ready to rumble? If you're holding out, and never were tempted to add a subwoofer Steve might turn you around.
While most subs will do just fine with home theater bombast, not all are well suited to music systems.
These three brands make "musical" subs.
REL Acoustics rel.net
SVS www.svsound.co...
Hsu Research www.hsuresearch...
------------SUPPORT--------------
Thanks for watching, this channel can be supported through Patreon
/ audiophiliac
---SUBSCRIBE-----------------
/ @steveguttenbergaudiop...
Audiophiliac T-Shirts and Mugs! teespring.com/...
Twitter: @AudiophiliacMan
Instagram: Steve.Guttenberg
#audiophile #subwoofers
Steve’s System:
SME 15 turntable sme.co.uk/audi...
SME V tonearm sme.co.uk/audi...
Ortofon Cadenza Blue cartridge
Van Den Hul Grail phono preamp audioshield-di...
Jay’s Audio CD Transport www.jays-audio...
Denafrips Terminator DAC www.denafrips....
Denafrips Ares DAC www.denafrips....
Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ mytekdigital.c...
Border Patrol DAC borderpatrol.ne...
Oppo BDP 105 Blu ray player www.oppodigita...
Pass Labs XP30 preamp
Pass Labs HPA 1 preamp/headphone amp www.passlabs.c...
Pass Labs XA25 power amp www.passlabs.c...
Pass Labs XA100.5 power amp
First Watt J2 power amp www.firstwatt.c...
First Watt F7 power amp www.firstwatt.c...
First Watt SIT3 power amp www.firstwatt.c...
Amp Camp Amp Stereo diyaudiostore....
Schiit Aegir power amp www.schiit.com...
Mytek Brooklyn Amp+ mytekdigital.c...
Decware Zen Triode power amp www.decware.co...
Denon PMA600NE integrated amp usa.denon.com/...
Klipsch Cornwall IV speakers • Klipsch Cornwall IV wi...
KEF LS50 speakers
KEF LS50 Meta speakers • REVIEW: Radically impr...
Q Acoustics 3030i speakers www.qacoustics...
Emotiva B1+ speakers emotiva.com/pr...
Adam Audio F5 speakers
AudioQuest digital cables www.audioquest...
Kimber digital cable www.kimber.com...
Cardas interconnect cables cardas.com/clea...
JPS Labs interconnects jpslabs.com/co...
Nordost speaker cables nordost.com/le...
AudioQuest power cables www.audioquest...

[@johnpointon4462]

I recall, about 40 years ago, listening in a hifi store (remember those?) to a recording the owner had made of the interior of Exeter Cathedral in Devon with nothing going on - quiet murmuring, soft footfalls, the occasional cough, etc. etc. The sound was being played through a couple of LS3/5As. After a while he suggested I close my eyes (I did). He then switched in the subwoofer. The walls of the demo room seemed to disappear and the experience changed from listening to the sounds of the cathedral to being IN the cathedral. Quite magical. There's a lot more to it than just adding musical bass notes.

[@BirdArvid]

I remember listening to an EMC recording of an Arvo Pärt piece; same thing.

[@keatonjones6115]

well said sir! Its another Dimension to sound, it makes it more dynamic when lows emanate from everywhere and stereo speakers throwing sound left to right at the same time , whether you can hear the sub or not it adds more feel/substance, a sub might only play 30-150hz or something but seems to add depth everywhere in my experience. I cant live without one now.

[@rmabgoi]

Ain't that the truth !!! That's why my subs were fine-tuned while listening to violin Bach partitures.

[@xxxYYZxxx]

Subwoofers and supertweeters have a lot in common in the sense you describe, in that they both add realism to the ambience heard in the recording.

[@drthbn]

Because you can hear between 20hz and 20khz. Your speakers must produce all the sounds that you can hear.

[@MrDishdonkey]

Good description. Still using a REL Q150 from 20 years ago. Best description is that a sub should extend the bass of your existing speakers and shouldn't draw attention to itself. Many visitors ask why I dont use it when they listen to my system. So I have to then put something on with lots of sub bass then turn it off. Everyone is shocked. Setup right a sub has a place in a good hifi setup.

[@1rbarreda]

I use a REL Q150 as well. Excellent musical sub for 2 channel stereo.

[@garymalone547]

Got an 8 inch Cerwyn Vega under the couch with my Q3020s.

[@edwardbalboa5528]

Great sub ... I use one myself .... Amazing for its size

[@Duijnkiller]

Got Rel Stentor III goes low 11 HZ. its great subwoofer

[@epi2045]

All I can say is this... after owning so many brands and types of subs including building three subs and running dual subs. I should have settled on a 15” sub. Not because of more “bass” but for quiet listening. At lower volumes most subs sound dead - even the “musical” ones. With a 15” sub it sounds amazing at low to moderate volumes. It truly is a beautiful thing.

[@wynnsimpson]

What brand 15" sub do you have?

[@epi2045]

@@wynnsimpson 2nd hand Velodyne off of Craig’s list. They have an 18” within the series that goes down to 14HZ. The 15” I use goes down to 15HZ. I’m not a mega bass head but it is nice to have the bottom headroom. I find bass in the 30-70hz range to be very smooth with my sub.

[@wynnsimpson]

@@epi2045 Thank you for your analysis. I am considering a SVS SB1000. I can't afford the 15". Do you have any experience with SVS?

[@epi2045]

@@wynnsimpson I don’t think you can go wrong with a SVS or HSU or Rythmic(sp?). They are the trio of companies making nice subs $400-700.

[@sagered8007]

Elac 1010

[@ch_pa]

I use the rel t5i with my kef r300 and can only advise everyone to test a sub in his system. I think there is no going back afterwards. When properly set, the music is enhanced with a lot more than just the deeper bass information.

[@johnsingley8183]

Hello, I too had a REL T/5i added to my stereo system, but I returned it because it emitted an audible hum. Consultation with REL seemed to rule out a grounding issue as the source of the hum. My connection was high level directly to amplifier using the provided 30 foot cable, although the REL was about three feet from the amplifier and about seven feet from the listening position. I really liked the enhancement the REL provided, but could not tolerate the hum. Do you have any experience with a problem like mine or any suggestions? Thanks for your consideration of this comment.

[@ch_pa]

Hello John , I can‘t detect a hum from my system, using the high level connection (cable shortened to 10 feet) in a bi-amping setup, sub connected to the related bass driver amp. Maybe there were interference in the cable, or it was a „Monday device“. Sorry, l‘m really glad with my setup.

[@andrewbardwell4832]

@@johnsingley8183 do you use a class D amplifier?

[@andrewbardwell4832]

I just added a T5X to my system (Rega/ProAc) and I’m amazed by how much better things sound.

[@marcop680]

Totally agreed, subwoofers are "audiophiles machines", you simply loose part of frequency response range without a sub. Waiting for lot of subs reviews and tips. Good job!

[@fwabble]

To Steve. Dude... Really? My two 12 inch SVS SUBS can't to 60hz? (the part you said get a Smaller 8 inch SUB if you have small speakers.. as they can't go high enough to meet the bottom end of the speakers) ...... 60hz? Come on..

[@JosephTongret]

A couple years ago I decided that subwoofers(2) really needed to be a larger portion of my total system budget. I had an RSL Speedwoofer, which is sort of a darling to a lot of people for it's great performance at only $399. I replaced it with dual SVS SB3000's which is a huge step up in cost, but they've been the most significant upgrade I've ever made! I love bass heavy music so having capable subs is a must. They elevate the performance of any speaker when dialed in well, and they're probably the only gear I have that I absolutely will not let go of.

[@Unpreeeedictable]

Big subject. Glad you have broached it. I am sure many of your viewers will have opinions on sub/no sub and the proper way to set them up. My small word of advice is don't underestimate the power of app-controlled electronic DSP. I have a couple of SVS SB-2000 Pros which have built-in DSP. Being able to integrate your sub(s) and mains from your listening position is very, very helpful. By using the built-in parametric equalizers and shooting the room with Room EQ Wizard, I found the integration far, far, less frustrating than when I was trying to do it with my old subs, the much more expensive JL Audio E110s. These are old school where one needs to get up, turn a knob and sit down again. NOT ideal for setting subs up. It is also easy to tone down or up the bass on any given recording using the phone app. From my personal experience I've concluded that app-controlled built-in DSP is a must-have feature in any modern subwoofer.

[@peterrichard3706]

Give me the$$$$¢$

[@neilfox4626]

A subwoofer is like air conditioning. You can live your whole life without it and be fine but once you have it you can never go back. Yes, get two.

[@markt4385]

Exactly!! Changed my musical world forever, and two is better than one.

[@boomerzoomer5191]

Got two too! A left and a right channel. NAD 316BEE goes to--->2 Gallo TR-3Ds which go to 2 -->JBL Century 100. I'm satisfied.

[@davidsteiner7155]

@@boomerzoomer5191I've been thinking of a second velodyne I have a 10 I'm thinking a 12 or 15 crossed over real low to cover the very bottom something felt more than heard.

[@fonkenful]

Earl Geddes and others have suggested that even more than two subs can go a long way to mitigate modal issues, which of course vary widely/wildly depending on the room. Of course, the complexity of properly setting them up increases exponentially, but thanks to widespread availability of relatively affordable DSP room measurement and correction software and class D amplification, this is far more accessible than “back in the day” when some of us greybeards were cutting our teeth in the Wild West days of our early audiophile careers - i.e. beginning in mid to late 70’s and forward.

[@welkekutnaamdanwel]

For me it 's not. Fullrange is the only way for me without a sub

[@losriosprofundos2113]

I just got my first sub two days ago, an SVS SB 1000 Pro paired with Revel Performance M106 speakers, and I couldn’t be happier. The set up was super easy, and I can’t believe how much better everything sounds.

[@jked7463]

Yes, the best reason for a sub is that the best location of bass reproduction is very rarely the same place as the main speakers for best imaging. As an analog two channel guy, the biggest issue is finding an analog sub amp. One of the most important features for integration is continuously variable phase adjustment. Being able to locate the sub in a good bass reinforcement location that also happens to be lined up with a reflection point of the main speakers works well for imaging.

[@bmg102]

I tried the near-field positioning idea on a subwoofer I have been using since the 80s. Amazing difference. I thought I had good integration before, but everything improved with the subwoofer right next to me. Tight, punchy bass that I never had before with better apparent low-end extension. I thought the sound would be disjointed but this setup actually creates an illusion that all the bass is coming from the main speakers.

[@brydon10]

Do you point the subwoofer toward the speakers (assuming it's a front-firing driver)?

[@LSDaigle]

Good show today. I ran a pair of SVS SB 1000's behind my Magnepan 1.7's for about 4 years. Totally seamless integration and they really rounded out the low bass that the Maggies couldn't reproduce. Sold the whole kit when I got my current setup, but I remember those subs very fondly.

[@mechanicalmanical]

2.2 and room correction combo makes music sound so sweet. For well blended subs, the sub gain will take the longest to tune. Like when you first get the sub, you want to hear it. But then you realize that doesn’t sound the best. So you start to turn it down. Then you miss the slam. So you turn it back up. For me, it took months of this for me to be happy. Dua Lipa’s Future Nostalgia helped so much. Album has awesome bass grooves and and of course female vocals. When you can feel the bass but it doesn’t muddy the delicate vocals you’ve nailed it.

[@darrensoar3003]

I’ve been using a pair of JL Audio Fathom F112’s with a pair of active ATC’s for about 2 years now.Love the setup even though it took me a while to get them dialled in.

[@meshplates]

What’s better than a subwoofer? Two of them! Not sure if you mentioned that. I have a pair of REL T7i. Love them. A fringe benefit is I tend not to turn the level up so loud, so neighbors aren’t as pissed off. Great for classical headbanging as well as the typical kind even with lowish powered tube monos.

[@wio27]

The best way to make bass sound like it’s coming from the left and the right is to play it from the left and right!!

[@simoSLJ89]

True, dual sub is great.

[@ThePistpet]

William Fussell well it's obvious you know loads about acoustics and the behaviour of bass frequencies in an enclosed space,

[@kjbiz]

My goal is to add two REL T7/i’s to my system and run with my LS50’s. Also considering monoblocks as well. It will be done in stages as I can get access to stock and $$$$

[@gurdyman1]

@@ThePistpet You get it. Best way ti integrate the subs is through testing where the smoothest balanced response is in room. Using 3 or more subs can smooth it even more. People should read up on this through the writings of Earl Geddes and others (can't think of the Canadian's name who wrote book on it.) Lots of good info out there.

[@rainman3269]

Added 2 rel 9ti subs to our system ... will never go back now ... set up right via the hi level inputs just filled out the whole sound stage ... Awesome

[@veteq101]

Great video. I have a set of large speakers but I was not pleased with the overall sound in the low end, got a pair of REL 7i subs and it opened up the sound completely. I must have moved them around over 20 times and the final resting place was with one in the front and the other behind the sofa. Sounds great.

[@Gamez4eveR]

REL are great because they have barely any subbass output to excite room modes hence they sound great without any actual integration (EQ/DSP+crossover)

[@Jeton6]

I get best results keeping my sub up off the floor, away from the wall...it's response is weakest BUT most even thru its own range and throughout the room. it definitely integrates better doing that, even if the "earthquake effect" is diminished.

[@Gamez4eveR]

are you running a crossover between your sub and your mains? Do you have PEQ bands applied to sub outputs to compensate for the sub exciting any room modes?

[@Jeton6]

@@Gamez4eveR 80 hz, no PEQ.

[@shahrulhaidi3782]

Trust you bro,the real vetaren in audio. No lfe line but go to speaker level, absolutely amazing

[@brydon10]

I love my SVS SB-1000. It's compact enough to put in a variety of places and the power it has is very impressive. One of the best things I've bought for my system.

[@jeffsloane8628]

So glad to hear you discuss this Steve. I kept waiting for you to mention multi sub. Going to dual subs was a huge upgrade for me. Bass response was smoothed out over the whole room, integration was better and the subs were only having to work 1/2 as hard to achieve the same in room output. Please check out and encourage your audience to at least listen to a dual or multi sub system.

[@edmundgil6008]

Awesome direction! Great view and announcement! I run two sealed SVS subs that I run to my powered monitors; a 2.2 system. It’s fun to tinker with both subs, trying to find the optimal sound for Video/TV viewing, and stereo music.

[@markt4385]

Since the main goal of audiophiles is realism or accurate sound reproduction, leaving out any part of the sound spectrum moves one further away from true fidelity. The reaction of the listener when certain passages of music or sound are played with the sub or (subs) switched off, and then repeated with them turned on is dramatic and exciting to watch. Especially when the uninitiated brings familiar music or even movie tracks into the mix.

[@marknpb]

Your description is so accurate. I added a pair of the (relatively) cheap SVS PB12NSD's to my Polk RTiA9 towers on a Denon AVRX3500H. (adding an external amp later) Once I ran the room correction software and measurements, they integrated seamlessly...you hear lower frequencies, but don't really realize there are subs there, until some really low or really hard bass notes come in. Even then, the sound just more fully fills the room, you still don't necessarily "hear the subs" themselves as you say. It's really great. No going back. :)

[@featherboards1565]

I take exception to the notion that if you have smalll speakers you should get a small sub, "because there's too big of a hole there." Big subs can still easily extend to 200 Hz so there's no hole there, even with bookshelves. There's no downside to going big (other than expense and size). I currently have a Hsu VTF-1 Mk 2 and am planning to add a VTF-3 Mk 5 soon.

[@bluesfish55m51]

Agreed. Me thinks Steve way over generalized his comments about relative sizes. He makes little distinction between “speaker” and “driver”. My speakers are good sized floor standers and have deep rich low end but the drivers are only 6 inches. I’d get little help from a small sub if I followed his rule of thumb.

[@wellroundedsound2422]

There is generally an issue hooking up 12" sub with smaller speakers. Speed. Simply put heavy coned subwoofers of a larger diameter tend to be sluggish and cannot match the speed of the small main speakers. Not a huge deal for home theater but a disaster for music. Also for music only it is better to hook up two subs in stereo via high input. it preserves the tonality and speed of the main amplifier.

[@featherboards1565]

@@wellroundedsound2422 Do you have any scientific tests you can point to that demonstrate that? If the crossover point is well selected, how can a the sound be a "disaster?"

[@wellroundedsound2422]

@@featherboards1565 Yes there is a scientific way to measure membrane velocity, and impulse latency. Most subwoofers that are using low level input have a delay (latency) and it causes out of sync effect. Subwoofers with DSP amplifiers can correct for this but they cannot correct for heavy membrane velocity. Again this matters for music primarily not as much for Home Theater. Just a quick link on the topic: www.reddit.com/r/audio/comments/3onydh/anyone_else_put_off_by_bass_that_seems_to_lag/ Cheers!

[@wellroundedsound2422]

@@featherboards1565 little more on the topic :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJzRpmWZormikJo

[@andrewbardwell4832]

I just added a REL T5X to my Rega/ProAc system... I can’t believe the difference. It’s so much more than lower notes. The energy in the music, the richness of the sound is dramatically better. The left hand on the piano or a stand up bass just come alive...

[@gregbartley2475]

The REL subs with the Speakon connection is the best option to connect to a receiver etc. that doesn’t have a sub out. It’s is specifically made to send a proper amplified signal to the sub.

[@johngeloso6224]

Love you show Steve. I recently got a Martin Logan Dynamo 1100x to compliment my Martin Logan Ethos. I can’t believe the difference. The sub truly rounds out the entire bandwidth of the song you are playing and makes for a better listening experience. I never thought I would be a fan of a sub for a 2 channel stereo. But I’m now convinced. Cheers. John

[@KJ-yq5gm]

I'd live to see a review on rythmik or SVS subs - thanks for the great work! Congrats on the 150k subs!!!

[@georgeanastasopoulos5865]

Thank you, Steve; a fun, valuable lecture on the subwoofer.

[@jakobocorrecto9743]

I have one 18” JBL 2245 in a 8 ft3 cabinet in my living room to fill out the Tannoy 3809 bottom end. Blends seamlessly. I have two 18” JBL 2241 subs in my garage to fill out my Altec A-7 Mantaray setup. Listen to Beach Boys “Pet Sounds” and heat Carol Kaye play bass for the first time. You need a sub.

[@The09221955]

For years I used a y splitter off the preamp line outs to go to the subs. Worked well.

[@JohnDoe-np3zk]

I picked up a Yamaha powered sub for 10 bucks at an estate sale and hooked it to the same tech and vintage Yamaha powered small speakers with the y connection off my Nak 550 sweet little system

[@yourdiytechlife]

Would love more sub reviews👍 For me, the sub definitely adds that low end that I feel really anchors a system so to speak BUT I also think it makes the upper lows mids and highs sound much more Alive. I don’t know if it has something to do with harmonics or just being able to hear the entire range of sound but for me a sub is a must even if it adds complexity. When you spend the time getting bass properly set up the rest is easy IMO.

[@TheRoyrules88]

Imagine that bass is literally a base or pedestal for its mid and higher dimensional octaves.Now,if the base is missing,then the mids and highs sound incomplete.Like subtle breath sounds,that only real subs(-3db below 20hz) can reveal.Also,if the base octaves are not accurate,in time rhythm dynamics and harmonics,then the mids and highs go discordant,cacophonic and all is lost.So yes,a properly dialed in room sub is a must for full range,real reference listening.But,it all boils down to the size of room and acoustics,to what can be reproduced with a sub.For tiny rooms,avoid a sub!

[@ruk2023--]

I agree with this video - especially if you have a big room. I had a sub for years and you cannot beat them for filling a big room with deep bass. I sold it because I thought I didn't need it but over a few months I have realised that even with big floor standing speakers with multiple bass drivers I miss the hit of the really low end. Thanks for the tip about putting the sub near you as well.

[@jownbey]

Just added an rsl speedwoofer 10” to my stereo speakers and man it completes the picture beautifully. Im thankful there’s now good self powered speakers and woofers. More parts and cables i do not want haha

[@jkherberger]

Steve, you forgot to mention that a high quality sub can be crossed over much higher. I have my JL F112 crossed at 120hz.

[@AudioGuyBrian]

120hz is the magic number. You got it!

[@tpr299]

Already have. I bought an Outlaw Audio M8 to supplement my bookshelf speakers. If your speakers don’t reach the lows you want it’s the best solution.

[@fletchermunson6225]

Hi Steve, Maybe you could address whether there are any advantages in down firing versus direct firing.

[@JohnDoe-np3zk]

I have two REL T5i that have used with the KEF LS50 and the Mag LRS with monoblocks. Price is right and 8" fast woofer works well with both as about 50 hZ is their lower limit. Also the downfiring appeals because it disburses the sound more evenly. Had them behind the speakers maybe 3" off the wall...

[@Gamez4eveR]

Fast or slow woofers are a myth/marketing wank. Under 200Hz sound is pretty much omnidirectional, so a downfiring design doesn't really change anything. While with midbasswoofers like RELs integration is much easier because they roll off hard under 40Hz, hence they aren't powerful enough to excide primary room modes, and will sound better than actual subwoofers without any integration (no crossover between sub and mains and no EQ to correct for excited modes). I myself upgraded from a similar to REL in performance "subwoofer" (Yamaha HS8S) to an actual subwoofer (Monolith 12 THX). Without any EQ (crossover applied though), it sounded unbearably muddy, headsplitting, bloated, etc, etc. Added some PEQ bands to fix room mode excitement, and my 2.1 setup now sounds better than any high end system I've heard in any showroom.

[@stephenbailey9969]

I'm a convert. I added a Cambridge Audio Minx x301 sub to my Wharfedale Denton 80th anniversary speakers and it definitely extended the sound, making it fuller. Don't know how it would work with heavy rock, but it improved my enjoyment when listening to 70's and 80's jazz and jazz fusion.

[@billbones1000]

I'm a big sub fan steve, have a set to compliment my spatial audio OBs, connected to my prima luna via high level inputs. Once you get true full range sound it's imposable to go back!!

[@davidm7824]

i have always had a subwoofer and never regretted having it. then recently i have heard that 2 subs sound even better, so ordered another one. best thing i ever did!!!! the second one filled in the gaps of no bass of my room. try it you will love the difference that the 2nd one makes.

[@oysteinsoreide4323]

I just got a dual Rel T9i for my Dynaudio Evoke 50. And it really opens up the space in the sound image. And the whole room shakes if the music asks for it.

[@csxlab]

My friend I have been using a dual stereo subwoofer setup ... 2.2 since 1997 .. still the same system of today. And man ... some vinyl classical pieces it is amazing ... not speaking on electronic music... it flies the sound through your muscles :) but what I mean is .. like in classical music there is so much on the instruments... like the double bass on the Rachmaninov symphony nº2 by Eliahu Inbal .... it is a bliss !!! Last month one of my subwoofers was giving problems, I send it to the repair man ... and all I can say was I was felling depressed without the subs while they where in maintenance .. I noticed I cannot live without them anymore ... I was really getting depressed lol ... listening audio without the subwoofer was like eating food without salt. They needed some lubrification on the polarity button and that was it.. they are back and I feel so happy :D. Some of my friends music producers and band members come here sometimes to listen the final master :) to have a full feeling of the dynamic range (lets face it studio monitors are just that monitors) and they always feel all right

[@sachabodenehr1011]

Great topic. I integrated a ported SVS SB3000 with BW803D3 in a big room. Fantastic upgrade in terms of depth and volume.

[@bc527c]

I chased the audio world idea of bass and got that 'slam' thing going just fine... and I gotta say, I hate that. After getting the crap beat out of me I changed course... now I'm a much much bigger fan of open baffle bass... all the tone but with a -realistic- level of physicality. Subs do present -the- audio challenge, room modes. Your life as an audiophile will suck forever until you learn how to vanish your room modes. Unfortunately -almost nobody- in the audiophile world knows how to do that. But when you do... things change, a lot. The second key to subs is time alignment, again, almost impossible to do... but when you get it right the difference is massive. To have a sub properly dialed in (xover) and to have both the room modes and time alignment sorted out vs none of that is worlds of difference. Good luck.

[@HareDeLune]

I have been hearing a lot of good things about Open Baffle subs lately. Definitely want to give 'em a try.

[@chrisbozeman6639]

I have 2 Vandersteen 2wq subs with my Vandy Treo CT and I LOVE the sound!!! Steve is spot on about subs being seen but no heard. The irony is you can’t hear how much they contribute until you remove them. HOLY COW!

[@gregclark8700]

I’ve got two little REL T5s positioned adjacent to my stand mounts. They not only add the missing base but somehow improved the quality of the midrange. I turn them of sometimes just to remind me just how good they are. I would recommend two subwoofers to anyone who’s thinking about adding subs

[@pfjb9122]

I love 2.1 sound. The stereo rides the waves of the woofer. I'm not talking deadmau5, I use it for classical music - symphonies.

[@artgenics4350]

Great work man👍👍

[@eddievega1100]

And that's why I went with the Definitive Technology 9060 & matching center channel Now to upgrade the Pioneer HT amp.

[@AudioGuyBrian]

I have a total of 4 Subwoofers. 1x 18" on 1,800w dedicated power amp. 2x 15" connected to stereo amp (500w/PC), and a 10" Powered Dayton Audio Sub. All sound terrific in the rooms they are in. The 18" goes down from 10hz-120hz +/- 3db so it really shakes the house. The little Dayton 10 is amazing as well for its size. No system is complete without them I think.

[@sthr2110]

2 REL S/5's with 2 Polk Legend L800's here and couldn't be more pleased. Despite the fact that the Polks output exceptional bass, adding the subs was a truly transformative experience.

[@mr.george7687]

Have had sub's since the original M&K David & Goliath Sub/Satellite system.

[@user-ex9zm7bg3x]

Miller & Kreisel, man they made nice stuff

[@lucc7116]

exaclty ! the brand who actually make this better(space) is REL to me the best on the business

[@Hi-FiBBQ]

I use two 12" subwoofers, so I use one on each channel. I run the right channel out of my amp to the right input on the sub and then to the right speaker. Left channel to left sub to left speaker. My speakers each have two 8" woofers with a dynamic range down to 35Hz. I have my subs identically configured with the volume modestly set at around 35% and the crossovers set at 90Hz. Both are in phase. I've futzed with these settings a great deal, particularly because I didn't want bass rumble from the subs. After all, my speakers handle bass very well. I just wanted a little more on the low end, without knowing in the beginning if I'd really be able to achieve that to a satisfactory level. As configured, I have achieved my desired sound. That said, I honestly don't even know if I have them properly setup, particularly the way I have them cabled. They seem to work just fine and they sound great, and that little bit of extra bass makes for a very pleasurable difference. But maybe I'm doing it all wrong! Lol

[@boomerzoomer5191]

Me too, got two. One for the left info and one for the right; they help organize the soundstage.

[@Pete.across.the.street]

You have your crossover way too high. It should be around 40-50 for those speakers based on your description. That being said, if you like how it sounds at 90, then it's right for you.

[@Hi-FiBBQ]

I'll adjust the crossover as you suggest and see what I think. Thank you very much for taking the time.

[@Pete.across.the.street]

@@Hi-FiBBQ let me know what you think of the results. Hope it works out.

[@skwrttj]

I haven’t had a “sub-woofer”, BUT I had a pair of AR-9’s, which handled bass well. I love organ music, and have a number of good organ recordings. Bass on them sounded heavenly.... when needed.

[@bigadventure3797]

He's right about the near field placement comment. I run two JL f110's right behind my listening chair and it sounds awesome and integrates perfectly with my L&R towers.

[@RJ_Chicago]

I have two systems. One with Magnepan 1.7i panels and one with Magico A3 towers. Everything I thought was fine. Then I took the leap and got a pair of REL T/9i subs. Wow. It revolutionized the sound of my Magnepan system! It also was a positive addition to the Magicos. But not as much as to the Magnepans. Yes. Take the leap! You won’t go back!

[@eric-bm5ot]

Right on Mr. Guttenburg! Please review Rel Subs, love how Rels support your main speakers with awesome Sub Bass and room corrections.

[@youfoundsound]

Paired my KEF LS50 Wireless with a KEF Kube8b subwoofer. Just a great combination and what a big difference in soundstage and sound breath. Good you brought up this topic, Steve.

[@Merlinever]

I had ordered a sub woofer from an internet site and it had been stiiing around my place for over the last two weeks. I was thinking of returning it as the speakers I had just purchased turned out to have some excellent (accurate) bass. Then I thought that since I already have this thing here, why not try it; after all, I had never hread one used with an audio system. So I unboxed it, hooked it up, and put a cd on. At first, it seemed so subtle I didn't think it was working. Then, when the bass on the cd recording kicked in, I had to run over to turn down the volume. I ended up listening for about three hours and couldn't believe how much better my speakers and my system sounded; the sub woofer not only filled out what the speakers had been missing but somehow had brought extra life to the high frequencies. To translate my description from an audible one to a visial one, it was like I was seeing for the first time the huge mass of an iceberg that is hidden under the water. The subwoofer I was using was the audioengine S8 compact powered sub woofer; it measures 11 & 3/8" wide by 13" High by 11 & 3/8" Deep and is beautiufully hand finished in black. It even came in its own grey velvet stuff sack! Needless to say, I highly recomment it.

[@novisnick6928]

Yes sir, I have one sub as a end table and the other one just behind me seat. Best placement Ive found for four 15” woofers.

[@Valerifon1]

If I can have a seamless crossover - I'm all in! It's not just about more bass, it's about dimensionality - especially with piano. Love your show Steve! All the best - Luther 😎👍

[@darkblueturbo]

So... I have a subwoofer and I love it. So much. It really helps liking drum n bass, obviously. But also it adds to the system. Most bookshelf’s fail what I call ‘The Obituary Test’. But a sub woofer tends to resolve that. I couldn’t live without one

[@darkblueturbo]

I have a corner sofa, and the sub sits behind the sofa. Luckily it is my MLP which is about bang in the middle of the stereo stage from the speakers. If you ever thought, do I need a sub, get one if you can.

[@darkblueturbo]

@Joao Faria that’s exactly right 🤘

[@Davethreshold]

I use two DIY subs, with 2-10" drivers each, in push/pull configuration, which cancels much of the distortion. I have them in what I call my Bass Womb. They are both 6 feet away and in the corners. The mains are 11 feet away. After messing around with external crossovers I now use the built-in Xover in my Marantz Av-7705. My new Marantz Audessy 32 NAILS IT! I never hear the bass from behind me. It is the best bass that I have ever heard, BUT I fully realize that there are better ones, store-bought & DIY out there. One of the main advantages is with a proper crossover, you take the low, hard-working bass out of your main speakers and amp, and that will let them SING!! Example: Years ago, I was used Magnepan MG-3's which had a fair amount of bass, but hooked with the crossover/sub I had at the time you could CRANK THEM which would be impossible without taking the bass out. It is audio/fidelity first with me, and if you get that right, surround sound will follow. - Dave Smith from Facebook. GREAT ONE STEVE!!

[@stevezeidman7224]

Great opening! I’m not ready! I’ve had a sub and can’t say I want another one. I feel like all I want is stereo now.

[@Chiroman527]

Hey Steve, I have an older NAD 1300 Preamp, NAD 2600 Amp and a DUAL CS5000 TT connected to KEF 104/2 Speakers (terrific by the way). The equipment is all 83 years old - purchased in 1987. I saw the schematic for adding a SW by speaker wiring . That was much appreciated. Off the record, direct me to your TT Cartridge Videos . I just got back into playing my old LPs . LPs vs. Cds is another long discussion with many battle sites on KZbin. Be well All. PS: I'm 69 years old and about to retire . Music is becoming a Big Renewed interest.

[@runetech]

I've been using Subwoofers in most my setups since the early eighties... I have done everything from dual 18" in one huge cabinet (that I built myself and have an active tuned filter before the Crown K1 amp), to 4 "small" (12") subwoofers evenly spaced in the room that is tuned with DSP. To be honest. I enjoy the dual 18" monster the most, but the most correct sound where the subs just disappeared into the sound, it is the quadruple small subwoofers. I do not use small speakers... :)

[@dell177]

I've used a sub for 20 years, it was a 3.3 cu tsingle sub and it really added a lot t my enjoyment of music. When i was in my early 70's I decided my time on this orb was finite and I decided to free the moths and give into my lust for great sound. I invested in a new amp, a top line DAC and a pair of tower speakers. The towers are 3 ft out into the room so they do a great job of projecting a sound.stage. i also invested in a pair of 10" Sumiko subs with 10" passive radiators and set it all up so the subs did really disappear. It's not the boom boom it's the foundation they lay under the main speakers that makes such a difference. Once you hear that you will never give it up.

[@GodfreyMann]

Re: near-field sub placement: I’m two weeks into enjoying a Rel T7i with my LS50s and pairing it was simple using high-pass. I listen to both sub and speakers near-field and the sub disappears, HOWEVER, I can feel the vibrations on my legs with bass heavy tracks, which gives away the sub’s location...though my brain isn’t smart enough to connect the dots - it’s still thinks the bass is from the speakers, smarter brains beware!

[@mxjoaoo]

where excatly do you put your sub for near-field ? im struggling to find a perfect place for my Kube 10. I also have LS50s.

[@GodfreyMann]

@@mxjoaoo currently it’s under my desk near my feet. I’ve put it sideways so that I can’t accidentally kick the cone and the T7i is narrower than it is long, so there’s more space for my feet. So far, it hasn’t gotten in my way.

[@scottyo64]

I run 2-T5i's RELs with my Maggie LRSs. I though one was fine but sooooo glad I got a second

[@paradoxicalcat7173]

Subs all the way! Buying any form of decent speaker/amp is only doing a half-job when you omit frequencies less than 100 Hz produced by a speaker capable of actually recreating the sound. There is a reason bass strings on any musical instrument are extremely long: natural vibrational frequency. A sub needs to be a decent size (minimum 12") to be able to adequately move the air to replicate low-frequency sound. Yes, you can "hear" bass with smaller speakers, but the cone is much too small for the frequency output, and so you're really only hearing the air move at 40 Hz, but not the actual bandwidth of the notes.

[@philippebertrand3820]

Your drawing is outsider art. I like it!

[@Paranimal86]

I’ve got a pair of 15” HSU ULS-15 Mk2s paired with my relatively small drivers at 5 and a quarter. HSU is flat up to 200hz. I have my crossover set to 100hz, it made my whole system sound so much grander! The sound is so big, can’t believe what I was missing with the small sub I had.

[@gravitystorm61158]

Hsu’s are awesome subs.

[@tachman]

I second that - I have a 15" HSU ULS-15 MK2 paired with my KEF LS50s and have the crossover set to 80Hz. The HSU ULS is a great addition to a 2 channel all-music setup.

[@Paranimal86]

@@tachman yeah it’s fantastic all around for both music and movies... I have mine in a 5.1(2 subs).4 set up. It’s like being at the AMC Dolby theater. When I listened to music though I generally listen in 2 channel. I will say the Tidal atmos mixes music some of it sounds awesome in multi channel... the blue note jazz atmos mixes sounds like there is a live band in my theater.

[@dknorr98]

Sub sizing.... never heard it put like that. Makes sense. Thank you.

[@xxxYYZxxx]

Subs are well paired with sealed-box satellite speakers where the satellites roll-off at the same frequency used to low-pass the sub. If a higher-order high-pass is desired, it can be added by the preamp to compliment the speaker's natural 2nd-order slope. If the sub's low pass xover is 80hz, sealed speakers with an 80hz F3 & 0.5 Q will blend seamlessly w/o any high pass added to the speakers.

[@goshrx]

I use a small 10" sub for music in my 2.1 setup. I don't have it cranked--it just gives a depth that I think makes music in my system sound much richer and textured. Steve is right about the soundstage as well. Now I don't have a big expensive system--we're talking Polk towers here (rti-a7) and a Sony a/v receiver (ES line). But for me, I think, this is a great budget system.

[@audioaficionado9494]

I have a well integrated subwoofer with my stereo bookshelf speakers. Bass always sounds like it's coming from the main monitors. Janis W1 sub and B&W CDM1 pair. Sounds accurate and very musical.

[@rickjelak3283]

Thanks again Steve, I'm with ya everyday!!!

[@brianking9286]

One of the reasons I purchased the Parasound P-5 pre amp is it has a bass management circuit that makes integrating a sub much much easier. My left/right speakers sound better because the bass below about 50Hz is filtered out, clearing up the midrange in the process.

[@adamweeks614]

I ordered a Klipsch sub over thanksgiving to help my LaScalas. They were half off for Black Friday. It’s supposed to arrive today. I’m looking forward to trying the placements you suggested.

[@wverlinden]

Hi Steve, my living room system uses Dali Rubicon LCR on wall front speakers with 6½" drivers together with an SVS SB-4000 with a 13.5" woofer and the sub blends in perfectly (at -10 dB) using an NAD T 777v3 receiver and Dirac Live room correction. It is a very good 2.1 system for stereo music. I also have a Dali Fazon LCR center speaker and Dali Fazon SAT rear spekers to double as a 5.1 system for movies.

[@StormyV58]

Thx. for very good information regarding subwoofers. I have a comment about how to connect it to a stereo system. This is another way to do it, and the obvious question is if my method is better!? I connect the signal cables from the preamp to the subwoofer. And via the subs filter I connect signal cables from the subwoofer (80Hz and up) to the power amplifier. This is What Jack Gilvey at SVS wrote to me: The filter on the SB12-NSD high-pass out is fixed at 80Hz so the best settings of the sub's Low Pass knob is also 80Hz to avoid a gap in response. Anything in the signal path, like a high-pass filter, can effect transparency to some extent. In most cases, though, the increase in dynamic range and decrease in distortion allowed by sparing the speakers and amp having to deal with bass below 80Hz will be more noticeable, especially at high playback levels. Very Nice if you could test this out!

[@WaWa7848]

I say it like this ► An audiophile (like me) MUST HAVE a subwoofer. Otherwise, he is missing out a big part of the music reproduction, period. ◄

[@dougdavis8986]

I totally disregard anyone's opinion when they end their sentence with 'period'. It means they believe they are the only one that can be right. Basically jackasses.

[@WaWa7848]

@@dougdavis8986 A jackass, like me can still have a strong opinion, period...

[@freeindeed1426]

Hi Steve, recently purchased a pair of relatively inexpensive subwoofer to compliment my loth X bs speakers and was knocked out with the difference in performance, a bit of fiddling to get where I wanted to be, quelled the constant upgraditist I have suffered from, once you see it you can't unsee it

[@matthewrichey8542]

Added a REL T7i to my Magapan LRSs. The improvement was significant. SD said, the key is integration. My sub picks up right where the Maggie's fall off, around 60 Hz and takes it down to 35 Hz or so.Most of the time you would know there was a sub in the system, on occasion you do really notice the base coming from the 35 Hz to 60 Hz region that was simply missing before. Overall, I couldn't imagine not having a subwoofer in the system.

[@Kksss239]

Now you have 190k sub. That’s a good amount. Btw, I learned a lot from your channel. :)

[@RP-ms7lu]

Wow ! So many may be 50 headphones you have ! I see them in background!! I don't have any subwoofer but now considering one from SVS pb 1000 pro.

[@andrewallison70]

I had an set of Monitor Audio Bronze 2 on a Cambridge Audio One system and got to try a 12" subwoofer on it. It completely changed my view on what hifi can sound, even though I only had it for a short time and the sound wasnt perfect by any means, it just made the music BIG and exciting. I know it was extreme given what i had and I have upgraded my hifi since, however I still yearn for a sub at some point to that big exciting sound once again. One you get hooked on a sub there is no real going back to a normal setup.

[@FelixtheMetalcat]

What sub were you using? I have those speakers and was considering Monitor Audio's matching sub.

[@awwtergirl7040]

Subwoofers are trouble. Taming them and the room is a chore and forget it if you have neighbors. I got rid of mine when I realized I had it off 90% of the time. Getting a subwoofer to integrate is too much work and I enjoy the simplicity of not dealing with it.

[@harisjaved1379]

I agree 100%

[@losriosprofundos2113]

I couldn’t have had an easier time with the SVS SB 1000 Pro, sounded great out of the box, and I have it low enough that it can’t be heard in other rooms of the house. Maybe give it another try.

[@keithmoriyama5421]

Never been crazy about my Maggie 3.7's but they work great with my stereo REL S510 subs.

[@gravitystorm61158]

I don’t have a sub for my stereo set up. Carver 6250 and Sansui 9300’s don’t need a sub. But the 5.1 has a Hsu VTF 100 10” sub. Mains are Polk RTA11tl Rears Cambridge Soundworks bi-pole/di-pole surrounds V2, and Cambridge Soundworks 5 driver The Center V2. Pioneer Elite VSX30. Not the greatest, but still in great shape.

[@zippymagee]

Have you tried the sub in your stereo setup?

[@gravitystorm61158]

@@zippymagee I once added a Polk SW50 with a 12” woofer that I at one time paired with a set of Model Elevens by Henry Kloss. It worked well with those speakers. But the sub picked up where the woofers rolled off on those. The Sansui’s have 16”woofers and the sub actually couldn’t be heard set in center between the speakers due to their freq resp.

[@zippymagee]

@@gravitystorm61158 awesome that speakers get down in frequency. no problem for a pair of 16's to push air i'd bet.

[@DigitalNomadOnFIRE]

More importantly, are your neighbours ready for you to consider a subwoofer? ;)

[@StellarAudyssey]

Lol truth

[@Merlinever]

Digital Nomad on FIIRE Podcast: Good point. Just remember the old saying: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And, as I recently found out, sub woofers work just as well at low volume levels as they do at the Apocalypse Now setting.

[@skwrttj]

😂

[@nathanc6516]

Subs are fun when you hit that sweet spot in volume and frequency cutoff and it just melts into the music. If they sound off, overbearing, or muddy, then you need to play with balancing them some more. They should make everything sound more defined, not less. I use stereo subs, and although I have considered placing them front and rear, they sound so good now there doesn't seem a point to trying it. The secret to subs, is you don't necessarily need a powerful or expensive one to sound great.

[@Woodzyowl0309]

I didn't realize how much difference a subwoofer would make until I went to a local audio showroom and listened both with and without one. I immediately went home and ordered a Rythmik F18 (because, let's face it, you need as much output as possible when pairing with Klipsch La Scalas). It's made all of my music significantly more enjoyable. Still feel a bit bad for not purchasing from the audio showroom (I later went back and did a back to back comparison between my F18 and their JL Audio E112 and preferred the F18's sound), but I've got some other things I plan to purchase from them in the not too distant future to make up for it. My home theater setup won't power itself, after all!

[@sidneyfrederickson3941]

I have large vintage Pilot speakers from about 1960. I use a velodyne sub with them to fill out what the old Pilots cannot easily reproduce. He is right, it would not be obvious.

[@mikecampbell5856]

I use the speaker level in and out connections for my stereo systems and the RCA in for my home theater. I have never listened to music on my theater system since I initially set it up so sound wise it doesn't matter. I prefer the high level in/out for music.

[@jsz2619]

I've got a pair of NHT Super Zero speakers (1993) with a Bic America F12 sub. The NHTs go down to 85 Hz while the sub's maximum frequency response is 200 Hz, so I've got 115 Hz to play with. And yes, I did the subwoofer crawling.

[@carlitomelon4610]

Sure! But I already 2.2 both systems with REL powered subs. So Steve, you didn't mention possible room mode issues excited by subs. 2 subs can go some way to avoiding the null frequencies also. I'm currently experimenting with Room EQ Wizard (REW). It's helped me identify the problem modes, set crossover frequency, level and polarity of each sub. Adding a DSPeaker anti-mode DAC resolves the room mode problems for serious listening and you really hear into the recording venue with less of the listening room sound signature superimposed. ( For low level listening it can be defeated acting like a "loudness control" ;-) Good show, Steve. I'd subscribe twice!