Audrey Assad & Fr. Chris Foley - Deconstruction in the Christian music scene

There have been many stories of Christian musicians deconstructing or deconverting in recent years. Justin is joined by Catholic singer/songwriter Audrey Assad who revealed earlier this year she is no longer a practising Christian.
Fr. Chris Foley of the band Luxury explains his own journey and why he has remained in the faith, becoming a priest in the Orthodox Church, along with two other band members.
For Audrey Assad: www.audreyassad.com
For the Luxury video doc: www.parallel-love.com
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[@IC_XC_NIKA]

Thanks for inviting an Orthodox priest. Please invite more this is an amazing conversation! ☦️🔥🔥

[@aaronsmith4894]

Justin does such a great job. Each guest has so much to say. When they pause, I am left thinking about what they just said, but Justin pivots the question in such a graceful way... he's obviously learned A LOT of theology/philosophy/contemporary culture.

[@joemusten]

Fr. Christopher Foley is someone I highly respect. Thank you inviting a voice like his into this conversation.

[@lawrence-dol]

This is the first time I have heard him speak. I am deeply impressed, and was pleasantly surprised.

[@christopherfoley6986]

Thanks Joe!

[@mickeyconstam9802]

I became a Jewish believer in Jesus nearly 50 years ago while a student at Duke University. I can relate to so much that was shared on this broadcast from both Audrey and Father Chris. It so saddens me continually that the true and living God is so misportrayed in the religious world, such that many turn away or don’t even approach. Briefly stated, I do know that the spiritual rebirth through Jesus is a vital starting point. But thereafter, constant honesty with God, constant questioning, constant seeking must characterize our hearts and minds. God is not intimidated in any way. As we journey from darkness to light, from soul to spirit, from deception in some form to ultimate truth, from separation from God in a world filled with emptiness to union with Him in the internalized eternal, may we always understand that He loves us and desires our eternal good. So much to say…. Simply, always seek and He will always lead you to find.

[@ManuGeorge777]

I'm from a Brethren background and can relate to Audrey. God rescued me from that Apocalyptic cesspool and gave me a new life of BALANCE of Grace and Truth.

[@kaleido9631]

I can relate to Audrey. My mother had a really hurtful religious upbringing, and it turned me off to religion as a whole for a while. And I have mental illness myself. But now that I've begun my relationship with Christ, I've learned it's about balance. Granted, it's like walking a tightrope in stilletos sometimes, i.e. it's difficult. But it's all we have.

[@vanmoody]

God bless you Kaleb. As a pastor I see the ugly side of people's lives and the hurt they bring upon others. I like what you said about having a relationship with Jesus. Faith in Him is what counts because as the God Man He died on the Cross to pay our sin debt to the Father and He did it because He loves us. Let us not confuse what others do to us with Jesus.

[@lawrence-dol]

"tightrope in stilettos" -- 😆

[@JerichoArceo]

“It’s all we have” Perfectly said. Thank you. The narrow road.

[@susanringoen9397]

Thank you Audrey for sharing so openly and honestly. I love your music. Thank you for sharing your gifts, and for your courageous sharing of your journey!

[@Graacie1111]

For going on four years, I have run an abnb... Each time my guests enter the serene space I create for them, they hear your lovely voice inviting them "home"... I once was a songstress... Living near Nashville, I wrote with musical giants, but I wrote my best alone.. Lyme disease took that from me. Trust me when I say.. few writers stir my soul... but you are the only one who I truly connect with lyrically... your praise songs. I once left God for 14 years (between 14-28). I was a pastor's daughter ... But at 28, I stumbled back into His arms, and He has carried me through the last 3 decades... I love you. Jesus Understands

[@lawrence-dol]

This, too, is a big part of Audrey’s problem. She sees Jesus as purely a man in the past tense. He “died 2000 years ago.” “I believe he existed.” He is not dead, he is alive, the firstborn among many. That is the gospel. He is not some man who died 2000 years ago; he is the God-man who defeated death by rising from the grave to give eternal life to all who would believe in him. She is not deconstructing from Christianity so much as deconstructing a false belief system masquerading as Christianity. I too went through this about 15 years ago. But instead of walking away, I walked deep into what Christianity has historically taught and found it to be deeply intellectually satisfying.

[@JD-ro7xe]

If you have an inquisitive mind, it would be pretty difficult to believe.

[@lawrence-dol]

@@JD-ro7xe I do. It’s not.

[@JD-ro7xe]

@@lawrence-dol Well, for starters, there is very little historical proof of Jesus other than the gospels which are not counted as independent historical records. If Jesus did all those miracles, historians of those days would have written volumes on him. Secondly, most of the things Jesus was purported to have said are meaningless utterings.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@JD-ro7xe oh really? what historians do you need? tacitus, Ignatius, polycarp josephus? which one? and jesus ideas and pauls theology transformed the Roman empire in an unprecedented manner and ushered it into a new era like never before... seems like those "meaningless utterings" have caused eternal ripples across history! so your claim has no historical or manuscriptal basis to cement it and should therefore be dismissed without consideration! and to answer your ignorance on the gospels not being historical reliable and you being on ignoramus of extra biblical mentions of christ... here is a conclusion or brief elaboration from one of the greatest archeologist to ever live and incredibly influential: After reading modern criticism about the Book of Acts, Ramsay became convinced that it was not a trustworthy account of facts of its time (50 AD), and therefore was unworthy of consideration by a historian. “So in his research on the history of Asia Minor, Ramsay paid little attention to the New Testament. His investigations, however, eventually compelled him to consider the writings of Luke, the author of the Book of Acts. “The archeologist observed the meticulous accuracy of the historical details and gradually his attitude toward the Book of Acts began to change. He was forced to conclude: ‘Luke is a historian of the first rank … This author should be placed along the very greatest of historians.'” i think that should be the final nail to your coffin of "baseless arguments" to say that there is no historical proof of jesus requires ignorance on a large scale and constant evasion of the truth in order to fulfill your fantastical reality...

[@JD-ro7xe]

@@Tzimiskes3506 Check the facts before you accuse others of ignorance. Among the names you quoted only Tacitus and Josephus are historians. (Polycarp was a bishop while Ignatius of Antioch was a Christian writer. I hope you will agree that accounts by followers of a religion cannot be counted as independent.) Kindly take time to read what Tacitus and Josephus said about Jesus. Both make only passing reference to Jesus. They only confirm a man called Jesus/ Christus was crucified by Pontius Pilate. Nothing more. Their reference to Jesus is while they are writing about other topics. Again no reference to any miracles. My point is if Jesus had performed those miracles, volumes would have been written on them. Mention about a great miracle worker would have been found in the letters/ accounts of travellers of those days. It is said in the bible that when Jesus died on the cross, graves opened and many dead came back to life. Earth shook. Such events would certainly find mention in some records. But Jesus lived , performed those earth-shaking miracles and then disappeared from without trace. It was left for Constantine the emperor to after 300 years revive Christianity. And the 'first Christian emperor' went on to wage wars, decapitate the dead body of his rebel leader, poison his own son, kill his wife in a overheated bath. Is this the influence of Christianity on Roman empire you mentioned? Paul's theology 'transformed the Roman empire'? Did they stop fighting wars? Abolish slavery? Ban child labour? The ripples those ''meaningless utterings'' caused ... yes, the sexual adventures of priests, the attempts by popes to cover them up, silence the victims through monetary payments... The crusades of the middle ages, Inquisitions, burning at stakes of thousands, silent support for Hitler who himself was a Catholic to begin with, support for apartheid in S. Africa, ... are they all counted in the ripple effect? It is good to check the historical reliability of gospels before concluding Luke was a historian.

[@susanhalbedel9605]

Oh Audrey, my heart goes out to you! ❤For some reason I was drawn to listen to Wood and Nails tonight, not knowing anything of your story. Something told me to “seek u out” on this interview. I had a similar trauma and diagnosis, crying out to God for years to help me resolve my anger and depression that was magnified over the loss of a son a few years ago. I highly respect your struggle and can’t imagine being in the public’s eye as you try to be as authentic and reverent as possible. You show a Lot of class!! My prayers are with you as you make your way in this journey of the heart. Clinging to Jesus through communion with my “parts” and finding his extravagant love has been my story. If you every want to talk, I’m free!!❤ Sue

[@markaurelevangelista8622]

Love Audrey's music - praying for her.

[@joan3352]

So proud of you, Audrey! You're questioning and you're putting in the work!! I believe God has you right where you are... right now. ❤️

[@juliedesear7831]

I love Audrey and her music. One of my favorite vocalist all time. I am praying that she will make room for not knowing and understanding everything she hopes to know about Christ. I think in many ways it’s impossible to understand the nature of God but He wants us to know him in the way He has revealed himself and I believe when we seek the truth we will, as promised, find it and in finding truth we find the person of Jesus Christ 🙏 Prayers for her as she seeks for truth. I had a similar experience with law abiding and focused Christians but found that religion says “do”, Jesus said “done”! That’s the gospel

[@ralph1682]

Please read the scriptures and you will completely change you opinion. Also if you can listen or read the book called the Heavenly man. There is no following Vhrist Jesus who is Lord without obedience. Ishe never came to The real Jesus Christ which really saddens me, and I pray she comes to know the real Jesus Christ. This is so sad because the foundation is wrong. Simple.

[@saintbogan]

Woah. Amazing

[@saintbogan]

Thankyou for sharing Julie!

[@saintbogan]

Thankyou for sharing Julie!

[@songsgardensbyjenniferlynn3242]

Audrey, keep diving into scripture and seeking God, on your own, with others, and praying for you ❤️

[@loganjorger939]

Ii uh ii i.p.o ou9ui9 up Wii iou ii hgv hi kip

[@loganjorger939]

I uh icixi i.p.o

[@cwdor]

The christian God jesus is Satan the devil and he is not coming back... Christians worship Satan with a human sacrifice of jesus to Satan... you've been deceived... repent accept Jahovah and do good works.

[@lizaw.7313]

I was a part of the kickstarter project when she started out, her voice is like butter. Audrey is a very intelligent woman, which to me seems to be part of her wandering. The bible talks about protecting your mind over and over. She also was in a worship position for many years, and the enemy loves to get into the minds of those who worship. The enemy also used the people of the church to derail her. I'm truly heartbroken for her but I understand everyone has their own choices to make. I hope she doesn't go too far with the new age spirituality. I also hope her kids will have a good chance to be introduced to Jesus.

[@rebekahguilder602]

I pray that she will come to the full knowledge of how much God loves her.

[@saramartinez103]

Let's pray for her!!!

[@iAintSayDat]

My mom was a music minister and my dad was a pastor, and from what I saw alot of people that were around (or trying to come around) Christian music were just creatives who ended up in that space out of a preference for the church environment or the musical styles common in the church, or because they felt stuck in the church and didn’t think they had a lane to make money for creating elsewhere. A sad amount of them seemed to not believe anything.

[@teachpeace3750]

Just because one doesn’t believe in Christianity doesn’t mean they don’t believe in anything. I’m sure many of them believed in their families, friends, love and other things. Let’s not make such a bold and hurtful statement

[@meryllee2493]

Your authenticity, curiosity and desire to know the truth, to not be contained in a box, confined to the institutional, cultural and historical presentations of God/Jesus are profound and inspiring. I so appreciated hearing what each of you shared. Thank you!

[@davidl8094]

This is an excellent discussion. Thank you for posting.

[@leahh4727]

This is suprising to me... Audrey's songs make me think so much that the person behind them has such a close and intimate relationship to Jesus and then to hear her talking about "practicing christianity" her church experiences etc...and not her direct relationship with God... is really strange. I'm praying for her♥♥♥♥

[@CarmenPerez-kz6rw]

I was singing to God once and I have a pretty good voice and I heard the Holy Spirit say “you’re not really worshipping me.”

[@happyvictory6205]

Audrey, I came across your song, ‘Even Unto Death’ last year and I listened to that song over 1,000 times if I’m not exaggerating. Really, when I first saw the news about your deconstructing, my heart shook. Really pray that the Jesus who you said in that song that you will love unto death and give your life for His sake will reveal Himself to you. Please read John Bunyan’s autobiography, “Grace Abounding” as well as “The Untouched Part”. I pray that this leads you into a true and genuine relationship with God through Jesus. I love you.

[@Tani529]

My heart sank after hearing the news of her deconstructing ..

[@misejam]

Thank you for sharing this amazing conversation. I love hearing civil discourse about faith and belief, because it helps deepen my understanding of others--and of God.

[@jillianbelan8946]

Audrey, I miss your Christian songs. Nothing has changed in how God thinks about you while you are deconstructing. He feels your pain and doubt and longs to connect with you. I have experienced the disconnect of organised religion and seeking the heart of God. However I have found that God and Jesus are solid. The Bible is also solid and gives us insight into the heart of God. May he bless you in your journey, he never lets us go.

[@duncescotus2342]

Poetry is good. Music is good. Art is good. But the Lord Jesus tops them all, and is never adequately represented by any of them. Keep your things in order, people of God.

[@mrbaker7443]

Obviously you’re correct but Try “Ave Corpus Verum” by Mozart

[@duncescotus2342]

@@mrbaker7443 That silly Freemason?

[@bradyadler6672]

Amen.

[@duncescotus2342]

@@bradyadler6672 Thanks brother Brady. This is proving to be a popular comment. I really appreciate the reply.

[@gregkirk1842]

Something tells me you nothing about any of those things. Your missing the point.

[@chazcontramundum2224]

Such a great interview. Please have Fr. Chris on again.

[@petemaguire8677]

Let's be specific here, I'm guessing we're talking about contemporary Christian musicians? As a working musician myself it is no surprise to me. CCM is among the most shallow genres that there is, it tends to leech off bland contemporary pop and is often used as a tool to attract young people in the doors. Many young musicians will be naturally drawn to the culture it is pandering to. There is some good stuff out there I know. I apologise if this rant comes out bad, I love my Christian musician brothers and sisters

[@jameshogg11]

I agree. A lot of CCM is just cringeworthy. Artists trying to sound like a Christian version of Travis or Coldplay etc.

[@gfujigo]

Good points. I feel a lot of Christian music is superficial. Often Christians will bemoan the fact that secular music is vastly more popular than Christian music. They fail to realize so-called secular music is much more popular because they address and discuss all of the human experience. Christian music often fails to even address all of the Bible seriously. So it just uses the same tired formula of superficially talking about a few topics, and doesn’t even ask deep questions. Look at the song “One of Us”. That song was a hit because it didn’t stick to the almost magical approach of much of Christian music. Rather it asked a very interesting and thoughtful question - what if God was one of us, a stranger on the bus, how would we treat him. She also asked if you would want to see God if seeing meant you have to believe. There you have a very interesting question that makes you think. If only Christian music were that good regularly.

[@tommykiger1871]

What Christian music do you recommend?

[@bamremix8235]

@@gfujigo I agree!!

[@BornTimes2]

@@gfujigo I do see what you are saying, alot of CCM can definitely come across as formulaic as well as superficial. And while that isn't anything to laud, it's worth noting that all kinds of music are largely formulaic. But secular music, being focused almost entirely on the self & on transient feelings, can feel more "deep" to the listener, no matter how formulaic, because most listeners can relate to what it's like to be focused almost entirely on the self & on transient feelings. God and/or scripture focus is not near as relatable to most. I have found it a great comfort to listen to many songs that are inspired by the Psalms, because they seem to fuse God-focus with our experiences in a way that mirrors the journey of learning to know God as we go, formulas aside 🙂. Shane & Shane has alot of these kinds of songs.

[@ReasonablySane]

Honestly, I kind of see the interview with Audrey as an interview someone might have had with CS Lewis before he returned to the faith. Like all of this she's on a path and a journey that is not yet reached it's end. It's very good to ask the questions. But it's also important to understand that we're dealing with something highly spiritual, yet also highly physical. Just like our savior himself. I'm also noticing in both of your guests that the challenge is not with Christianity itself. Rather, it's with the culture and belief espoused by man-made religions that surround christianity. I'm 67 and had to deal with a lot of these things long ago and I'm still dealing with them. The reason is that no man is perfect and no man-made Church on the planet is perfect. Therefore my response was not to leave the church, but to change it from within. However, I also believe there should not be a contentious spirit in any church. Therefore, if my ideas were creating contention, I did in fact leave the particular church I was attending. There's an old phrase that goes something like this: " you don't want to be so open-minded that your brains fall out". So I consider open-mindedness to be both a blessing and a curse. It all depends on how you implement it. I also think one of the things that has helped me substantially in my walk of faith is that my faith is not blind. My wife and I have many miracles in our lives, two of which are actually miraculous healings. And one is actually hearing physically the voice of God. I've sparred with highly intelligent and educated anti-christians for decades. If I had absolutely nothing on which to base my faith than feelings, I don't know if it would have survived. But God prepares us all differently for our own walk. I also think the teaching of the "turn or burn" message is quite possibly the most damaging teaching to the core principles behind Christianity that I can think of. Salvation is not about geography. It's about condition. It's not about heaven or hell. It's about eternal life versus death. I choose the former. However, I also believe that what I just said there is spiritual milk. Now that one is saved it's time to become an adult and apply the teachings of Christ and the teachings of belief in Christ. By the way, I've been a singer in bass player in worship bands since 1998. I've had to deal with pride, and it wasn't until recently that I was finally able to really grasp that I need to just look at psalm 33:3. It's not about pride. It's about doing everything you do for the Lord well. And I leave it at that. And yes, I often have a challenge with the lyrics of some of the songs we do and share that perspective with the music director. But I am not god. I'm a man with an opinion. Sometimes that opinion is so strong that I stand on it against all others. Other times I understand that I could be wrong. And that's the cool thing about Christianity is that it's actually far more flexible than many would allow it to be. In heaven there are no stop signs. It's all yield signs. 😏

[@PETERJOHN101]

"It's all yield signs." Your personal gospel sounds very accommodating. I'll stick with the words of Jesus.

[@ReasonablySane]

@@PETERJOHN101 you're missing my point. What I'm trying to say is he leaves it to us to make the right decision with his guidance. But sometimes we make the wrong decision. That's why a man who was both a murderer and an adulterer was also described as a man after God's own heart.

[@abrahamcollier]

Brilliant, extraordinary approach from Audrey. Incorporates science, art, mysticism, history, and humanism while remaining totally respectful of those who choose to draw their spirituality from a less syncretic background. Father Chris was also so delightful, deeply thoughtful and respectful. Loved this.

[@hellefreude5086]

I appreciate you sharing your journey Audrey 💛 I also came out of the church institution to really find Jesus Christ and who I am in HIM! It was God himself calling me out of what He has never build in the first place which has brought much spiritual trauma in my family! Much of what we see as Christianity today is far from Jesus Christ! The true ecclesia are all IN Jesus Christ! Practicing (!) Christianity, as you said at the beginning, is not what Jesus called us to! Jesus is doing a great work in this time, removing all the fake religiosity out of what calls itself church! Not an easy process! Very scary at first! Being outside of messed up 'Christianity', alone before Jesus with the bible, seeking Him, has been an absolute journey of healing!!of course we're not called to isolation forever - but at times of such a mess in the house of God, as church calls itself, God has called many out and into a time of wilderness purification, alone with Him! I know of so many on this journey of coming back to the true God of Love and mercy, of holiness and LIFE, of LIGHT, who has shown himself so beautifully in Jesus Christ!

[@saintbogan]

❤❤❤❤

[@teachpeace3750]

This is such an incredible conversation. I am still in ministry but have deconstructed like Audrey. Like her, every fiber in my being wishes I could still believe and the grief and responsibility one carries in these transitions is truly incomprehensible.

[@teachpeace3750]

@Neil Viegas it would certainly make life easier, that’s for sure.

[@teachpeace3750]

@Neil Viegas I am pursuing another degree to change careers in a few years. I have definitely searched for jobs but none of them allow me to payback loans, mortgage, care for our three kids, et al. It’s not a fun position to be in, that’s for sure.

[@teachpeace3750]

@Neil Viegas I appreciate it, I really do. I’m always thankful for someone who doesn’t yell at me and has compassion instead.

[@colinloechel8378]

God can restore your faith and strengthen your belief. Don’t give up on Him, because He will not give up on you.

[@teachpeace3750]

@@colinloechel8378 it’s been five years, I fought for my faith a long time. I prayed, read countless apologetic books, talked with other ministers and read the Bible. Sadly, God didn’t show up and the evidence doesn’t seem to be there.

[@butterbeanqueen8148]

Audrey-thank you so much for sharing about your panic attacks when going to church. This happened to me. I tried a few times but could never make it through a service. When I have tried to talk about these experiences to anyone they looked at me like I had developed a third eye. It’s reassuring that someone else has had this experience.

[@justin10292000]

Sounds like Spiritual Warfare, demonic oppression. Justin Sturz

[@LostinParadise03]

Yeah that’s definitely demonic activity. Where do you think those voices in your head come from?

[@sweetiecorn]

I had panick attack too when I was at the church before and that was how I realized I was possessed by evil spirits. I exorcised myself, and it was ok afterwards. So whenever I had such feeling, I knew then I tried to recall what I did around that time, cut off the "source", exorcised myself, went to confession with a priest that I already carefully inspected, and am okay again.

[@butterbeanqueen8148]

@@sweetiecorn okay then. If you are serious do whatever works. If you aren’t religious practices won’t help. It wouldn’t help me either.

[@mattstips5817]

Good conversation. I would say that Audrey is choosing left-wing politics over Christianity. If you're going to be embrace those values you don't need to go to church because those values are their own religion, which is directly against the Gospel. People often change their views on Christianity, but the facts of the Gospel that everyone is a sinner, everyone is going to die and needs to be forgiven are unchangeable. The question is: When we look at a sunset do we believe that someone put the sunset there? is matter all that matters? People want to live in a free society that is free of God and his expectations of ethics. But you can't have the Christian ideals of people having equal and infinite value without the foundation of Christianity. Without God a society will no longer be free because the state becomes God and will assert its will on the people.

[@BornTimes2]

Amen! And who, then, is the "state" you speak of being run by? Sinful individuals, who will have no necessary constraints on the evil they can perpetuate. The Nazi society is a great example of this. Communist regimes, more great examples. We (humans) can't have it both ways. Either we have the dignity & value that comes with bearing the image of God, or we have no objective basis for that dignity & value. We have to be able to hold on to the facts and tell our feelings where to get off. Christianity is a result of a man claiming to be God & then proving that claim by miraculous means - up to and including rising from the dead & ascending up to heaven. That fact does not change, however we might feel at any given time. I pray that Audrey will get hold of the truth & come to Jesus.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

well my friend you are absolutely right! unfortunately our world is molding a God fashioned for their sinful desires as a puppet to justify their evil actions... and have not genuinely and in all truthfulness sought out the path of righteousness that leads us to the unconditional love and light of christ... this is the world we live in my friend but we must never give up the fight and fulfill Christ's will that the gospel must be preached. God bless!

[@CB-fb5mi]

Without which God?

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@iishadowii7477 fear can you be your guiding factor in preserving your life sometimes... I get where shes coming from but it still isn't a valid reason.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@iishadowii7477 literally what jesus commands were but, if u need to build up your own false set of beliefs then go ahead...

[@deniss2623]

Audrey speaks of "practising Christianity", which is a very strange concept. We become Christians when the Father draws us to the Son by the Holy Spirit, not by joining a church.That is then what we ARE, eternally, forever changed. This is what happened to me. Yes, I confess I have backslidden, sometimes badly, because I am still a work in progress, but when it comes down to it I could NEVER deny the Truth, and the Lord will not disown me.

[@jonathanbarb5516]

Yeah, I was perplexed by that wording as well. I'm like, you're not practicing, kindness, compassion, love for your neighbour? Or, does she mean going to church as "practicing" Christianity?

[@ismaelvinoya7070]

Yes it is not of doing but of being.

[@colinloechel8378]

@@ismaelvinoya7070 I heard a sermon in moderate Protestant church recently which talked about “being the church”, and “doing church”. I thing it’s better to be following Jesus in genuine faith and obedience, than in “being the church”, because Jesus said he will build his church. So anyone who is building a church, eg the Christian denominations, are building their own organisation, which is not the ekklesia that Jesus is building. He will vomit them out if they don’t repent (Rev ch 3)

[@martinploughboy988]

Indeed, in John 6 Jesus speaks of this drawing to the Son by the Father. Salvation is a work of God not something we choose, so that work that God has undertaken can never be undone.

[@deniss2623]

@@martinploughboy988 Amen, brother. When I came to Christ I didn't have a choice, nor did I want one!

[@nicklausbrain]

Audrey Assad is brilliant, I do relate to her experience very much

[@poindexterorozco]

I don't think deconstruction is new. We're just more empowered to claim our own narrative, so we are not being dismissed as those who have "strayed from the church"

[@ChristianRubert]

No that's atheism. Big difference.

[@natemcguire5058]

I have OCD, too praying for you sister don't be afraid.

[@teresabaldinucci9697]

@AudreyAssad Audrey, keep working things through and stay close to God. You don't need organized religion in order to have a personal relationship with God. Thank you for sharing your very personal story and being so honest about your experience. Sadly, many have had the same sort of experience in the church; Satan hangs out there too. I hope you are able to heal from the hurts of the past. Please keep making your beautiful music - I know it must help heal you as it heals and blesses others. Peace.

[@derekhiggins9565]

I just discovered Audrey a few days ago. I was so blown away with her music and her sound, then looked her up on Wikipedia to discover she is no longer a believer and my heart sank. I would love to find similar female Christian artists if anyone could make some recommendations.

[@sierraa5510]

Sarah Kroger

[@lindalong7460]

Derek Higgins, I would highly recommend Kari Jobe. She has a lovely voice and her lyrics are beautiful!

[@JoeNielsen44]

Why can't you just listen to her music? 🤔

[@justin10292000]

Charity Gayle !!

[@M0odyBlue]

Lauren Daigle, Sarah Hart

[@rdg6543]

I love Audrey and her music. I will pray for her.

[@PETERJOHN101]

Her music carries the spirit of idol worship, don't be seduced.

[@rdg6543]

@@PETERJOHN101 I will fill my ears and my heart to the brim with her music bc my God is praised. You, have a deceptive spirit of division. Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near. Christ's Church is one. And his mother is queen, just like the book of Kings shows. Every king seated on the thrown of David, had his mother on the thrown with him. Revelation shows her with a crown of 12 stars. A queen is not God, but she is due honor in respect to her queenship. Lord have mercy.

[@johnandrews1162]

Not all deconstruction, as it is called, has ended in leaving the faith. Many are looking back to pre-Christendom Nicene faith, reading patristic writers and rediscovering a wonderful renewal of faith. Christ as revealed in the Scriptures is the key to all. It’s clear that the reformations of the west Catholic and Protestant never went far enough. The impulse to continual reformation is inherent within the faith.

[@nathanw.3187]

Same, I’ve said elsewhere as a joke that my deconstruction led me to orthodoxy. While I’m not orthodox yet, I’m still a Protestant, orthodoxy has been so helpful.

[@johnandrews1162]

Chris says, “I wasn’t told the whole story.” So much wonderful stuff yet to be rediscovered by so many.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

but theres limits to eveything and once you go beyong those limits you spout heretical statements and although it is crucial to deconstruct and understand it for yourself... you must be honest in your quest for truth.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@johnandrews1162 guided by the holy spirit, on your journeys...

[@steveareeno65]

This is my story. I deconstructed away from the mainstream evangelical church and went to the orthodox Presbyterian church. I started reading the reformed theology of Calvin, Luther, Bavinck, and others. It opened my eyes to a Christianity I didn’t even know existed. I can’t believe how shallow the churches I went to were and how profoundly I misunderstood the Christian faith.

[@cirrusonsea1668]

Luxury's music is genuinely interesting. There's lots of juice to savour. I'd never heard of them before this. Definitely interested in listening to a band who begin a song by playing a ring mod like a gamelan - and do so musically! It's a welcome departure from the norm. Added to my eclectic list along with guys like Danielson, Welcome Wagon, Ester Drang and Natalie Bergman. Audrey Assad is indeed a beautiful soul. Her music is a reflection of that. I hope she returns to Christ. it must be so hard to have had to let Him go. I was in her place a while ago though. I had to swing out of orbit into the outer darkness in order to return to the inner sanctum.

[@danstirling7386]

Don’t miss out on Lee Bozeman’s solo EP from a couple of years ago!

[@cirrusonsea1668]

@@danstirling7386 Thanks!!!!

[@christopherfoley6986]

Thanks!

[@han1218]

This was kind of a plug :) Audrey Assad is in a different league, career wise.

[@thetrollpatrol8799]

Is “deconstruction” just a ‘sophisticated’ way of saying “apostatizing”?

[@torontoash45]

is Troll patrol a sophisticated way of saying i don´t know what i am talking about?

[@johnandrews1162]

No, there is more to this than that. A work of God perhaps.

[@Livesinashack]

So never question what your taught?

[@torontoash45]

that depends on what you are learning. In public school do you question the teachers?

[@LBBProductions7]

More like wanting to go deeper in your faith then finding out that what you thought was sound doctrine turns out to be more complicated and nuanced and maybe even different than most other churches. Plus Christian Nationalism doesn’t make the journey any easier, especially after 2016 election.

[@bookishbrendan8875]

It’s so interesting to hear Audrey’s deconstruction story. She seems to say she felt her faith boxed her in, a world of limits and fear. But here I am as an atheist who hates his atheism, wishing I had been raised with a faith. I’m looking “in”, so to speak, longingly at what I perceive to be groundedness, calm and steady waters. Out here it may be “open”, but it’s all a flat horizon with no stars to guide your way.

[@teachpeace3750]

Check out Humanism, it has some strong and beautiful grounding. It has brought a lot of meaning to millions of nonbelievers.

[@emiliawisniewski3947]

Oh! Why do you hate your atheism? That's such an intriguing concept. Definitely take some time to think through your atheism and explore alternatives. It's important to understand both atheism and the counter to it to more accurately inform your opinion.

[@bookishbrendan8875]

@@emiliawisniewski3947 True, and I’m that sense I’m not “jumping the gun”, so to speak. I’m exploring the options. That’s the thing-the other options seem to make sense in ways that atheism always seemed to lack. There’s also this inherent antagonism in atheism that always turned my stomach sour. I mean, read Hitchens or Dawkins and then immediately follow that up with Chesterton or Lewis. There’s a positive side to the latter that exemplifies the bitterness often inherent in the former. Even in public speeches, I hear it in atheists. Hitchens, for all his clever witticisms and sharp comebacks, was particularly this way. When pressed to explain his metaphysics, or expound on his morality, he’d usually just dodge the questions by throwing out some jab about religious atrocities or something. I don’t know, maybe it’s the sentimental difference between a belief system that is built on positing something, and the reaction to it whose only reason detre is to reject the belief. One is propositional, the other, critical.

[@bookishbrendan8875]

@@emiliawisniewski3947 True, and in that sense I’m not “jumping the gun”, so to speak. I’m exploring the options. That’s the thing-the other options seem to make sense in ways that atheism always seemed to lack. There’s also this inherent antagonism in atheism that always turned my stomach sour. I mean, read Hitchens or Dawkins and then immediately follow that up with Chesterton or Lewis. There’s a positive side to the latter that exemplifies the bitterness often inherent in the former. Even in public speeches, I hear it in atheists. Hitchens, for all his clever witticisms and sharp comebacks, was particularly this way. When pressed to explain his metaphysics, or expound on his morality, he’d usually just dodge the questions by throwing out some jab about religious atrocities or something. I don’t know, maybe it’s the sentimental difference between a belief system that is built on positing something, and the reaction to it whose only reason detre is to reject the belief. One is propositional, the other critical.

[@emiliawisniewski3947]

@@bookishbrendan8875 - I can empathise with you in a small way as I'm a cradle Catholic turned agnostic during a period of poor health and now I'm back on the Catholicism bandwagon - it took a decade to figure things out. It was for the better part incredibly painful if I'm honest. I grieved the loss of my religion quite dramatically. I interestingly could never take atheism very seriously unfortunately due to the poor treatment I received by atheists as a theist (ironic, I know) but agnosticism was easily comprehendible to me. It was almost like I woke up one day and realised God may not exist, I can no certainty that He did. I didn't think it would bother me, but a decade of throwing myself into wholeheartedly into secularism (to get rid of the presumed shackles of religion), it wore me down in ways I didn't really expect. I was meant to find a freedom in agnosticism, but came out the other end really beaten up. I only actually came back to faith after my illness subsided substantially. It was almost as if I couldn't rationally handle theism until I was well enough to properly digest it, and it was then I discovered the rich philosophical tradition that my religion has. I read through the New Atheist writers and struggled to find them of much substance, even good atheist philosophy like Oppy (who I have a soft spot for as a fellow Australian) didn't quite intrigue me as much as the theistic philosophers. There's just something about theism. I have to agree with you on the bitterness front. I don't dislike atheists, most of my friends are sincere atheists, but the militant atheists I interacted with during my journey appeared to be profoundly hurt in some way and acted out that hurt. I remember an atheist I worked with made a teenaged Muslim boy eat a pork sausage by lying to him that it was beef and only revealing the truth once he had consumed it. He was so proud of himself that he gloated about it to his colleagues and I just remember thinking to myself 'is this what I am?' The kid's reaction is still something that haunts me to this day, I regret not standing up for him. Perhaps ironically it was the militant atheists that encouraged me back to religion, so I should probably be quite grateful I met so many! But my whole rant was mainly to wish you good luck on your journey - however it turns out for you, I hope it's fruitful either way. And of course, being a good Catholic, I have to chuck in a few recommendations - make sure you try Aquinas, Merton and Kreeft. Also Pat Flynn who runs Philosophy for the People on YT is a thoughtful atheist convert to Catholicism. His philosophical education and style of reasoning may well interest you also! All the best! 😀

[@geoffrobinson]

There was a non-Christian channel that went pretty deep into the Christian music industry. It was not kind to them & their behavior, at all. Blatantly called them out on their sinful behavior.

[@jesusislord2453]

Pray for Audrey. She needs the Holy Spirit to give her a born again experience. Without that, she won't see the kingdom of God.

[@martinploughboy988]

She needs God to change her heart.

[@sierraa5510]

🤦🏻‍♀️

[@metscho]

The Dark Night of the Soul…Our suffering and “distance” that leads us to God. The Light pierces the darkness and is “glaringly” awakening to the soul.🙏🕊

[@SeraphimAirsoft]

Those early Luxury albums are amazing

[@christopherfoley6986]

Thanks!

[@danstirling7386]

Very much looking forward to this. I don’t know enough about Orthodox Christianity for one thing, but also I’m interested in looking into this trend. My thought is if a specific group of people (creatives, open-minded, liberal leaning types) are leaving a specific expression of Christianity, perhaps our churches aren’t presenting the gospel in the way Jesus did. ie a message for everyone who’s willing to receive it - all sorts of people. I think the trend is reflective of a cultural failure in our churches in a similar way to the trend of church attendance being only 33% male might be. I say this as a conservative, evangelical charismatic working in Christian music 🙂

[@Apriluser]

There is a movement of evangelical Christians into the Roman, Anglican, Orthodox Churches. I am one of those and am so delighted to have found a real home in a sacramental community and have left the rock and roll worship for so, so much more!

[@danstirling7386]

@@Apriluser That’s great. I know lots of others that have found life by going in the other direction. To me it just speaks of Christianity’s ability to recontextualise across generations and cultures. The message is for everyone, different expressions appeal to different personalities. I think the important thing is to tell that full story so that people are exposed to all the different ways Christianity is expressed.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@danstirling7386 can you please elaborate on how christianity recontextualises different cultures?

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@danstirling7386 it maybe a different expression but the truth remains the same and the truth is not flexible nor is it containable in any given framework but has to be told with no sugarcoating...

[@danstirling7386]

@@Tzimiskes3506 I agree regarding the message (although there are secondary and tertiary issues that our salvation isn’t rooted in). But what I mean is Christianity in India looks and sounds different from how it does in England. 21st century Christianity looks and sounds different from 17th century Christianity. It has different things to say to whatever culture it’s surrounded by including challenge. For instance, in Wilberforce’s day, abolition of slavery was a challenge brought from Christians and aimed at the culture it was surrounded by. But also we’re different individually - we have different strengths and weaknesses, different interests, different tastes, etc. That leads to different expressions of faith and it leads to different emphasis in each of those expressions. So all that to say I agree with you - the message is the same and must be rooted in the Bible. But there’s a lot of ground to cover there and each denomination and, to a degree, each individual Christian provides part of the whole truth. We can all learn from each other and keep each other sharp…if we can get over the fact that we differ 🙂

[@MrWishihadagibson]

I’ve appreciated watching Audrey’s deconstruction journey. What she has to say is always interesting to hear.

[@stevedewberry]

Audrey/Luxury collab. Let's go.

[@deion312]

I love audrey and her music. She is a kind soul.

[@chance1354]

Yeah truly...she is the perfect example of modern christian artist beautiful in their music but bankrupt or confused in their theological or personal understanding of god

[@teachpeace3750]

@@chance1354 what a hurtful thing to say.

[@PETERJOHN101]

Kind souls can lead others to hell. As for her music, I hear nothing of Christ in it.

[@teachpeace3750]

@@PETERJOHN101 search up “it is well with my soul” by Audrey Assad. It has millions of views on KZbin.

[@Apriluser]

One of the gaping holes of the evangelical church is that we don’t know our history. If we did, our approach to worship, ecclesiology, etc would radically be different.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

i agree to this very much sir, it truly is sad that the church has given way for this much evil...

[@doctorisout]

How?

[@Apriluser]

@@doctorisout I would recommend “ introduction to Christian worship“ by James White. He was a protestant professor teaching at Notre Dame university. It’s a wonderful overview of the history of worship in the Church. There are thousands of books written on worship so the space here would not be sufficient to even broach the topic of Christian worship. Another good book to read is “Evangelical is not enough“ by Thomas Howard.

[@martinploughboy988]

Would you like to expand on that statement? I don't think it is true, since those who lead many Evangelical churches are far from ignorant on those matters.

[@ralph1682]

There is nothing like evangelical Church it the Church of God and Christ or it is nothing. It has nothing to do with History. And I don't mean this in a mean way. The thing is the truth has been abandoned and we a just living in a man made truth and not the truth of the Word of God. There is not a single age in the bible that says some Christians should be evangelical and some orthodox and so on all man made.

[@BloodBoughtMinistries]

We are saved by grace through faith and not by works. Catholicism teaches that you just do works, 7 sacraments etc. So it's another gospel, making it impossible to be saved in Catholicism. So what you have are religious people and not born again people.

[@nayaramndias]

Protestant bs. If you don't know deeply about catholic faith, don't go around saying things that you don't know.

[@IvyLeather13]

Powerful stuff. Reminds me of what a friend of mine said after she converted to Islam. She wondered if her church lied to her about Islam, then what else could they have lied to her about?

[@triscat]

Fascinating conversation. I'm so grateful I stumbled upon the Orthodox church/faith.

[@markrezk1187]

You should get a Coptic Orthodox Priest on this show.

[@adriaanimanse6787]

Dear sister Audrey . 2 cor 10;5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

[@stevenhogg1708]

Excellent programme - I do pray for Audrey and I suspect many others with similar stories - indeed, I can identify with the image of God both her and Fr Chris formerly had and dare I say Audrey's 'without limits' vision of the creator feels closer to the sheer majesty and wonder of the 'Lord' we find in the Hebrew Scriptures. I thought she was restrained in her descriptions of some of the social conservative bigitories dressed up with shallow Scripture readings withoit a context of who God is - like her, I would find it hard to follow the God portrayed by some of His most vocal supposed followers. Excellent hosting by Justin (as ever) and I wonder if he, like me, found his mind going back to when he discussed the the 'loss of faith' of various church leaders with N T Wright a while back. Tom very accurately surmised the sort of issues Audrey and Fr. Chris discuss - a very rigid theology, no room for doubt and a picture of an 'angry, capricious God', this latter point being the image I also somehow managed to acquire myself as an Anglican (with some attendence at the local Evangelical Church) 30 to 40 years ago. It takes some working out of (and I am far from free of it yet), but the sheer wonder of the true Biblical image of God's love and His plan for those who follow His Son is well worth working through to!

[@ghostl1124]

She mentioned a poem, the Hound of Heaven. Wikipedia defines it this way: The Hound of Heaven" is a 182-line poem written by English poet Francis Thompson (1859-1907)

[@michellemarie9526]

The problem with intelligence is one that has always been there: pride. We can scarce believe that God is smarter than us. And the problem with artists is that they need a lot of (healthy) narcissism to get their art out there, and that can easily undermine a journey of faith that requires humility. The truths of the faith seem too simple - artists that are used to struggle and rigor want something more complicated, and the Eastern view of diffuse divinity appeals to the labyrinthine mind of an intelligent artist. But life humbles you anyway, which is why I believe many artists have MORE difficult but nonetheless very real faith journeys. Anyway I know there's much more to Audrey's journey so this is not an attack of her, and I actually resonate with a lot of what she says. I guess I'm lucky because I was always encouraged to read deeply and widely in all secular intellectual traditions in my Catholic upbringing - so I had my "adolescence." I hope she gets to the other side! One is not meant to stay in adolescence forever!

[@michellemarie9526]

... and I like how she talks about her journey as a healing of her relationship to God. That's very true. This interview really brings out why I'm so bothered by the "Benedict Option" - moving out of society and trying to create a perfect, insular environment that will keep out the "impurity". It just doesn't work because that anxiety is displaced onto the children who grow up in that environment. This is probably a lot of what Audrey has to heal from! This is a great interview. Thank you for doing this.

[@odkbull]

Celebrating deconstruction - which is, in truth, forasaking the actual truth of the Gospel, Jesus, and salvation - is heart breaking. It's like, "ooh, look at us! look how smart we are! look how enlightened!" BUT, in actuality, unless we are missing something, you are forsaking your first love. And, it is not remotely anything to celebrate.

[@PeterFortuna]

This host and the hot wing chicken guy host are the best ever

[@charmainehakaraia2808]

Please know your God. Reformed Baptist here, I was similar being brought up with hardly any theology, reformed theology changed everything ❤❤

[@jkm9332]

I'm still a bit confused by the term "evangelical." I never heard the word until maybe 6 o7 six years ago, and I'm 38 yrs old. What other "types" of Christians are there? Is there something specific that identifies someone as "evangelical" and not "evangelical"?

[@ChristianPodcast]

Interesting teacher, very interesting

[@ReneAstorga]

what is it about the question of sexuality and gender role that brings many to ruin in the faith? Why is this the one subject that will cause people to very energetically walk away from faith in Christ?

[@alfonsoreynosa8143]

Audrey needs to move from what the Church says about God, and search the Word of God. There she will find, the will, mind and heart of God.

[@colinloechel8378]

We’ll said.

[@rolandovelasquez135]

"God was angry and he had to kill his son". Nope, his Son offered himself as a perfect sacrifice. The dynamic is perfect love and forgiveness and salvation, not anger.

[@Livesinashack]

If you pic apart western Christianity to it's root, God literally put two people in a garden, told them not to eat from a tree (which He knew would happen), and then damned all mankind for it. So if this is true, then He set us up for failure and will torture the majority for all eternity for a problem He caused in first place.

[@JD-ro7xe]

@@Livesinashack Hey, lay off! God also wants to have some fun, right?

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@Livesinashack it isn't western Christianity... It was founded in the middle east so again your factually mistaken... and to take you on the garden account, did God not give the choice to mankind to select his command or do their own will? and did the lord also not warn them of the consequences of their actions before the did it? so the question is why did the pair of them violate his holy command and cause this much pain when he made it clear as crystal that you would die!

[@pwoods100]

Except when you realize that God was Jesus and Vice versa. A god who sacrifices himself to himself is not an act of love - it's just completely psycho.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@pwoods100 that statement proves you are unaware of the triune nature of God...

[@reap2win]

Being a rebel from my early days, it seemed quite natural to explore unorthodox aspects of culture as rock music electrified the boomer world .. BUT, the pursuit of knowledge as a way to truth should bring us back to the place of innocence, of true fellowship, as the Spirit helps us to see , as we forgive and get free of bitterness on the journey, to encounter the depths of His love… realizing His mercies are new, every morning.

[@ChristianRubert]

Audrey im so sorry of that negative church elder. God is beyond our understanding. Lean on him in your darkest hours. Ive had anxiety and panic but read the book of job. He had worse situations. Done to him.

[@paulfoor7388]

Jervis Campbell's music is a MUST. Please go and listen to him. He is the best Christian artist out there, and not yet well-known. You're welcome.

[@spacemanspiff9773]

The theological shallowness of CCM in the past few decades ultimately leads to deconstruction because there’s nothing substantial to build upon. I used to listen to CCM but haven’t for at least 5 years now because I don’t find them all that inspirational nor scriptural by large.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

i would say the same about secular music today too... Just random rantings and poor grammar

[@spacemanspiff9773]

@@Tzimiskes3506 that’s why I listen to 70s and 80s music almost exclusively! 😉

[@Tzimiskes3506]

@@spacemanspiff9773 same my friend! Though i love classical music like beethoven and lizst who were great musicians inspired purely by nature...

[@davidcavallino]

Thank u for this interview and thank u for treating your guests with deep empathy (our perception of what Jesus would and wouldn’t do is so American one sized fit all that it’s blinded many form deep empathy for neighbor) thank u ❤️

[@carlpeterson8182]

Interesting. I have been following Audrey for some time. I love her first couple of albums. She has gotten into some interesting spirituality lately. She id not go into some of the spirituality that she is into now. AS a conservative Christian, I think it is rather bizarre. Not anywhere close to Christianity.

[@Tzimiskes3506]

unfortunately the things that she said in this conversation are the hallmarks of pure heresy and is not what christ taught...

[@PETERJOHN101]

@@Tzimiskes3506 Exactly.

[@nathanhunt6208]

Whatever happened to “Even unto death”, Audrey?

[@gardenladyjimenez1257]

A wonderful dialogue. I encountered God in my 40's. I was exposed to Sunday church services, but my home had no religious foundation and was more agnostic than anything. Thus, it interests me to hear how many people are working to "re"construct their understanding of God from the God they were taught about in strongly religious families. I'm also very curious about commonalities of this deconstruction process for people in art. The creative process at its core expresses one's personal thoughts and feelings and "constructs" those feelings of the artist himself/herself. The artist is in control of the process...total control. For artists, is part of the challenge in faith in God a loss of personal control? I'd be curious to hear artists discuss this idea in future shows. Thanks!

[@seerforjudah]

A message to Audrey, from a messenger / servant who also hears from the Lord, Jesus Christ: Audrey Assad, the Lord Jesus Christ loves you! You may going through times of uncertainty, but you can be certain of this, his unchanging love for you.

[@davethebrahman9870]

It beats de-composing? :)

[@stevensonrf]

So I have to say: I’m confused?! did her PTSD trauma occur in the church of her origin? I.e., The brethren Church? Or did she experience abuse from a priest or a deacon in the Catholic Church? Her story and reasons for leaving are very fuzzy.

[@cynthiamckenzie1034]

Hi Audrey! I LOVE your music! It inspires me. I listen to it every day! Please don't stop making your beautiful music! I would love to buy your cds. Where can I get them? I have had my own journey with religion. I seek GOD independently from organizated religion. I read the Bible and inspirational stories and your music! You are a beautiful soul! GOD BLESS YOU 🙏💕👍

[@anarchorepublican5954]

..26:19.. Why Christian musicians are deconstructing ?..."the Rock-n- Roll worship Circus(service)"...Because Instrumental music, particularly in Christian worship is a irretrievably corrupting influence ...it promotes human ability, vanity, and pride...most significantly, no faith is required to strum a tune or bang away a ivory keys...in truth, many a paid Church organist is the closet atheist...mechanical instruments are dead, unloving, clanging and sounding (1 Cor 13:1)...nothing but a vain human inventions (Genesis 4:12)...rather than an aid in singing ...they blare and drowned out the fruit of our lips ...the faith filled confessing human voice - the instrument, that God Himself designed for worship...

[@JonTrott]

As an Ex-Evangelical, but still very much a Christian, I find in Fr. Chris' Orthodoxy some of the very problem Audrey describes regarding the "clericalism." If only women were allowed to truly take their places in leadership, according to gifting rather than arbitrary genderized rules. But to the degree they refuse to do that I see no reason for anyone to remain engaged w such institutions.

[@juliedesear7831]

I think that we can trust God to do what only He can do in any person’s heart. He is the one who finds us wanting and not the other way round. If we want to find Him, we can’t limit how He chooses to find us

[@rayeighmey9856]

"Rock n Roll Worship Circus" were actually a fantastic band :-)

[@doctorisout]

Great conversation. I always thought CCM died with Keith Green in '82. And was buried when Nashville became the epicenter. I still think there is some truth to that .... There wasn't a penny in it for the pioneers. Mostly it is prob just that I am at least 10 years older than Luxury. And musical tastes form in the teens usually.

[@DavidLaChanceJr]

It’s world spirit accommodation. It begins as a pursuit of worldliness and worldly approval in the name of “being all things to men”. They baptize their ambition and use the church as their market and platform. Those Christian artists who are pursuing true contextualization persevere in the faith. But the former are not “deconstructing” they are simply showing their true colors. You will know them by their fruit.

[@alfonsoreynosa8143]

Most deconstruction stories I heard are from people who have never really understood what Biblical Christianity is. It's not their fault, far too many pulpits have done a poor job of teaching truth.

[@okgreat252]

I absolutely agree. It’s the struggle you have before you know Jesus and what He has done for us. We look around everywhere to find truth. Once the true gospel is preached and understood, that’s when you meet Jesus for the first time. I was raised in the church but never heard the gospel until I became an adult. I was like this until I heard the truth of the gospel and finally understood I was a sinner and Jesus took my sin upon himself. Then it clicked and I read the Bible. Keep reading the Bible everyone, it’s Gods word and will lead us to the truth!

[@martinploughboy988]

They don't understand because they have never had their hearts changed. They are like the seed that has no soil.

[@alfonsoreynosa8143]

@@martinploughboy988 Probably the best response I've heard, you're exactly right my brother

[@polarisnorth4875]

That's not true. This is selective hearing. I know a good 5 people who have deconstructed, two of which went to bible college/seminary. The reasons are simply down to the contradictions of scripture/God and the lake of reasonable evidence for any of the claims of scripture.

[@alfonsoreynosa8143]

@@polarisnorth4875 Well you can't say it's not true because it's true for some. Going to Bible College doesn't say much, depends on the College. Contradictions, I like to see examples of this. Well thought out evidence. Most of what was written about Jesus Christ was written Within a decade of his death, not just from believers but from those outside the faith. There are more credible sources about the validity of the scripture than any other ancient writing. No one doubts the existence of Socrates, Plato or Aristotle yet most of what was written about them was not even close to their lifetime. Is many of the progressive,/the constructionist walk away from faith because faith didn't come through for them the way they thought it should. Something to consider... "My thoughts," says the LORD, "are not like yours, and my ways are different from yours. Isaiah 55:8

[@natemcguire5058]

God's love is enough

[@maxamos7]

@30:15 I've heard Josephus quotes my whole life growing up in church... I'm not sure why Plymouth Brethren would ban his records...

[@ismaelvinoya7070]

With all those beautiful songs, i know you will come back Audrey!♥️ Study the scriptures in the reform theology fashion im sure the holy spirit will illuminate your heart. Really love your music.

[@tyeishaleisure]

I hope so, but at this time, she has gone secular.

[@CarmenPerez-kz6rw]

It’s all me me me these days. Other people are suffering greatly in poverty, abuse, war, disease and death. There’s a lot of self-centeredness in society in general. Not personally attacking these people. “I don’t know” is the most intelligent thing the guy said.

[@bisdakpinoy3428]

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, *but they were not really of us* ; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, *so that it would be evident* that they all are not of us.

[@bisdakpinoy3428]

2 TIMOTHY 4:3-4 For there will be a time when they will not endure sound teaching, but according to the own desires, having an itching ear, they will gather around them teachers to suit themselves, and indeed they will turn away from hearing the truth, and will be turned aside unto myths.

[@DrReju382]

I love Audey's music so much. I left church few years ago & I found Jesus Christ. It's been super exciting & life filling.

[@cikguangela6746]

If it's OK to ask, have you gone back to church?

[@DrReju382]

@@cikguangela6746 that’ll mean that I have to leave Jesus. I have chosen to stay with Jesus.

[@cikguangela6746]

I'm sorry to ask again because in going through something myself. So you mean you're staying with Jesus but you have not gone back to church right?

[@DrReju382]

@@cikguangela6746 absolutely Yes. The current prevalent church variant is devoid of Jesus and His Mission for life and living. I hope I make sense.

[@cikguangela6746]

Thank you so much for replying. Much much appreciated!

[@pickenchews]

Panic attacks and anxiety attacks at church are a real thing.

[@johnpippen2759]

Audreys testimony does not add up. Using her timeline she was singing about the love of Christ before she realized she was spiritually abused.

[@Susq15]

The Christian faith is centered on Jesus Christ. Other Christians, churches, their frailties, their failures, their fears, really have not much to do with it. Faith in Christ is ultimately about one's answer to his question to each one of us: "Who do you say that I am?" It's not about church, but about rejecting or accepting him.

[@DrBob-gr5ru]

39:00 "A God who is a singular person with a singular will". That is like lining up a belt high fastball for someone Fr. Foley to knock out of the park. Well, historic Christianity is neither Unitarian nor Monothelite.

[@martinploughboy988]

Indeed, I choked on that. Did no one tell her that God is three persons with a single will?

[@Ironica82]

The problem with Audrey (and most people today) is that they put more faith in their own feelings than in the truth of scripture that has been solid for 2000+ years. Feelings should never be your focus or judge, only the motivator to declare the truth and care for others.

[@teachpeace3750]

She sounded pretty intellectually informed to me. Feelings are a part of everyone’s lives, even yours. No one can get away from that part of life no matter what they believe in.

[@colinloechel8378]

We also need to be spiritually informed, because things of the spirit can only be discerned spiritually - from God by His spirit, ie His personal revelation to us as individuals.

[@PETERJOHN101]

@@teachpeace3750 If we elevate our emotions above Christ, we create an idol of ourselves, our art, and our relationships.

[@teachpeace3750]

@@PETERJOHN101 what does that even mean? We use our feeling to experience Christ…

[@colinloechel8378]

@@teachpeace3750 God can and does use our feelings to experience Christ, and indeed also His perfect fatherhood. But the adversary also uses our feelings to lead us away from Christ, and so also away the truth, and from father God. That’s why we need to practice accurate spiritual discernment to determine the source and purpose of our feelings. That takes diligence and practice but is very doable, especially when we humbly call on God to help us.

[@pauljasmine353]

I've read many comments in this thread. There's nothing wrong with questioning your faith while studying and researching the history of Christianity. Even Mother Teresa questioned her faith. But the bottom line is FIATH. To question why people are leaving the Christian faith is almost a rhetorical question. We are living through an apostasy. Maybe the one Paul spoke of in 2 Thessalonians. Also, I believe it's a good time to remember Jesus's warnings in Luke 21:25-28, 34-36.

[@HulkmanManhulk]

Audrey did this fantastic Song called "Eden". Full of wisdom. It is a Song that helps myself being in a reconstructing Phase. I am a Christian universalist now and believe that Gods love and grace will get everyone in the end. This ends the fear of hell.

[@odkbull]

"There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12 - More important than how you "identify" is how God identifies us. Are we covered under the precious blood of Jesus? Have we placed our faith in Jesus to save us? Only through Jesus can man be saved.