Aukus submarine deal: Britain's role in facing down China's new arms race

[@wirrinwibbi-ko801]

As an Australian the Nuclear subs are absolutely necessary. Many in Europe, and sadly even the Brits who should know better, is the size of terrotrial interest that Australia has. This includes the suspended but not extinguished and legislated Australian Antarctic Territory under the jurisdiction of Tasmania. This territory represents 42% of antarctica on which China operates with dual purposes and on which it has placed objects or claims to the territory on which it operates including dual purposes satellite communications. Then Australia assists the defence of our smaller neighbours in the South eastern Pacific. Don't forget though Australian recognised territories of Cocos and Christmas Islands near Indonesia and Heard and Maqcuarie Islands in the Southern Oceans. This makes our territorial interest necessary for defence the 1/8 the size of the planet! Australia has vast ocean territories to patrol and with modern missile technologies, as demonstrated in the Black sea by Ukraine, ships are now sitting ducks. Also note that Chinese propaganda that USA is containing it and incurring on its territorial interest is fake. The USA has direct interest IN IT"S TERRITORIES in western pacific, i.e. Midway Islands, Guam, Marshall Islands and the Allusion Islands. So it's territory extends to the second island chains. SO Chinese aims of removing the USA from West Pacific would mean it has to eject the USA from it's territories. This is not just about Taiwan. This is about Chinese neo-imperialism and desire for control of the region. Given the vast distances and Chinese threats to Australia supply lines, look at the map, and then illegal sanctions against Australia in 2020 by China cutting 20 billion of our trade fro calling an inquiry into COVID this became the death knell of the French submarines and for all of Frances posturing, they well understand Australia's situation. Further China made it's intentions clear re Australia. In the Global Times China published an article suggesting that Australia (re call for COVID inquiry) is like annoying gum on the bottom of the shoe that needs to be wiped off. That sealed the fate of the French boats. [www.sbs.com.au/news/article/china-labels-australia-gum-stuck-to-the-bottom-of-chinas-shoe-over-calls-for-coronavirus-inquiry/0y46mnofj see also CGTN Twitter image from Chinese Foreign Ministry re Australian soldier sliting throat of Afghan Child, media-mbst-pub-ue1.s3.amazonaws.com/creatr-uploaded-images/2020-12/e355c5f0-341c-11eb-89b9-228a703f3849 Then add the 14 demands of Australia for removal of Chinese sanctions www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/nov/20/chinas-infamous-list-of-grievances-with-australia-should-be-longer-than-14-points-top-diplomat-says Now hopefully European will wake up to the Chinese thread that the Lithuanians have experienced. Ukraine is a small battle to what is coming here in the Indo-Pacific. Further the French Nuclear subs were not viable under our Nuclear Non-proliferation obligations due to the need for refuelling for which there is no infrastructure. So USA nuclear technology was the only viable solution for Australia (and USA regional) needs given this technology does not need refuelling of reactor over life of the boats. So Australia has very good reason to for life with Xi who, unlike for 'risk' adverse von Leyden, we see a man with a Winnie the Pooh smile, warm handshake dripping with blood, and a knive behind his back. Learn from Australia (and Ukraine). Do not trust the authoritarians. Believe what they say re their intentions towards you. Prepare for war because whether you like it or not, whether you love peace like Angela or Baerbock or are delusional like Schulz and the rest of Germany, WAR is coming. Why? Putler and Xi said so.

[@BaconGold790]

Well said.

[@vanessali1365]

Agree with you. I think the west is truly waken-up to CCP's expansionism and tired of all the excuses it made to not following the international rules of law. Expect new announcements to reset the balance soon.

[@adrien5834]

Never mind, your subs will still be built out of French steel anyway, just like the British Dreadnought class...

[@wirrinwibbi-ko801]

@@adrien5834 It'll be all from Ozy Iron Ore, Ozy Coke, Nickel, Manganese etc etc. I would call that Ozy steel. Besides we make our own anyways.

[@adrien5834]

@@wirrinwibbi-ko801 Australia makes steel that can withstand 100 kg/mm² ? Somehow I don't think so...

[@semprelazio8864]

Fantastic interview with someone so knowledgeable on the subject. Thanks for providing great content 👌

[@SanctuaryLife]

You missed a key point of the AUKUS deal in which Australia just paid a billion dollars to the US to refurbish a shipyard to assist them in increasing production.

[@alanbstard4]

Australia will get nought out of that

[@eddiecharles6457]

21:34 - Does the CSS Hunley ring a bell?

[@AlJaques]

As for the first submarine nation, I believe the US had a rudimentary single man sub in use during the Civil War, though don't quote me on that. I just recall that bit of info from my history classes.

[@bishimixes9871]

Was more of a boat with a hull below the surface and a gun above.!

[@jimdshea]

Truth

[@martinsweeney7633]

Confederates had the Hunley

[@hawklord100]

The Brits sunk a Napoleon ship of the line with a sub.. I believe

[@jdb47games]

@@hawklord100 No.

[@matthewhuszarik4173]

During the US Revolution the first attack of a submersible vehicle against another warship occurred. When the US Turtle attacked the British Eagle by attempting to attach an explosive device on the Eagle’s hull.

[@jdb47games]

It's probably a myth. It's not mentioned in any British contemporary record. The Turtle (if it was ever built) would have been incapable of reaching its target.

[@lesliewoinarowicz7018]

@@jdb47games Educate yourself on history before posting, otherwise you sound like a fool.

[@judithcampbell1705]

I always look forward to seeing any podcasts that Lucy is doing. Thank you 💛 both for your excellent report. Ty again!

[@garyknight8616]

Great interview. Thank you

[@peteregan3862]

Given that there will be about 80 AUKUS attack subs, and the likelihood of the UK and Australia having 8 each, and the US 64+, we will probably see UK and Australian subs confined to the Atlantic, Indian and south-west Pacific Oceans - patrolling the flanks and denying all other countries global access. India will play an increasing role in the Indian Ocean including the Persian Gulf, and Japan will bottle up the northern flank. This will allow the US to focus directly on deterring China.

[@PharisaerWatch]

I wouldn't trust the Indians to uphold their end of the bargain.

[@mrkey1003]

I wouldn't rely on India one bit. They play the Swiss card and like most countries only look after India - That said the more oil and gas India buys on the cheap the better for global prices. India is not to be trusted.

[@Kingzombiemyanmar]

India should have atleast 16 nuclear subs by 2050

[@peteregan3862]

@@Kingzombiemyanmar like UK and France, 4 ballistic and 12 attack??

[@PharisaerWatch]

@@Kingzombiemyanmar and? they are the most egoistical people that want a defense cooperation but won't fully commit. They ask for condemnation of Chinese intrusions in the Himalaya border area but give 0 fs about anything else worldwide.

[@matthewhuszarik4173]

Attack submarines can carry nuclear weapons as well. They just carry tactical nuclear weapons and not strategic nuclear weapons.

[@holdmybeer3931]

As an Australian I feel better knowing these subs are in our navy

[@pjeng1]

I was kind of worrying about not being able to eat fresh Sushi anymore if any one of these nuclear submarines were sunken in combat and our pristine ocean is contaminated with nuclear wastes.

[@willthecat3861]

Hello Times. England had submersibles... rowed with oars... but the first submarine kind of thing was the American one called the Turtle. You might say... well submersible or submarine, what's the difference? Look at the paintings, drawings, and plans, of the English and American boats... and you'll know the difference when you see it.

[@93pants93]

The turtle was also the first sub to be used it war the Drebbel from my understanding was more or less an experiment

[@LordOfLight]

Yeah, let's quibble.

[@benlepoidevin7047]

You mean BRITAIN not England

[@willthecat3861]

@@benlepoidevin7047 Nope. I mean England

[@XxBloggs]

I’m pretty sure it’s likely Australia will build more than 8 submarines. The blurb says at least 8 and with the skills being built up and the rate of SSN AUKUS build, they don’t want to stop and lose all the skilled workforce. The shipyard question in the US is being dealt with by a financial investment by Australia. Australia has an established submarine yard in Adelaide already. On another matter, the JORN over the horizon radar is entirely Australian developed. Your correspondent needs to be better informed.

[@dan7564]

Yeah they've left themselves plenty of wiggle room. Depends on many factors, how in budget they are, their man power, the geopolitical situation in 20-30 years etc.

[@kevinchen7403]

The Confederate Hunley was the first submersible to ever see combat in wartime. In this case the American Civil War. It successfully attacked and sunk a Union sloop that was blockading the Southern coastline.

[@SilvanaDil]

World's first nuclear powered sub: USS Nautilus way back in 1954.

[@tikpenn]

First US sub sank during Civil War attacking Housatonic

[@JeffLines]

Very well said!

[@alanbstard4]

why has the new AUKUS boats for OZ and UK have different kit inside them?

[@iansaliba-curtis1041]

The Confederates had the 'Hunley' submarine during the American civil war. Sad to relate but America's submarine heritage is actually older than the UK's. I'm a Brit.

[@inch6074]

As far as I'm aware,the 3 Virginia class Australia will be getting are mid life boats ,15yrs life left on them ,so Americans will not have to build extra boats for Australia,they will just transfer boats and carry on building the updated with the extra VPN module ongoing class for USN ,and the older smaller original class for Australia ,if the AUKUS class boat takes longer to build for Australia, Australia can get 2 more older Virginia class submarines to tide them on till AUKUS becomes available ,also is the labour party going to even going to commit to AUKUS, with the shadow defence secretary thinking we shouldn't be tilting to the east/ Pacific ,so I'm not sure they even going to get behind the programme tbh ?

[@dan7564]

correct, it will be second hand subs, but the US still needs to make more subs to replace them so it's still taking from their overall stockpile. But yes, depending on how well the new sub programme is going they will want just enough life left on it to replace it with the aukus subs so that ideally the whole fleet is one sub. But considering labour just committed to 370 billion plan on all this, yes, they are committed.

[@collinseretis]

2040? That’s ridiculous, we need them much much sooner.😮

[@dpelpal]

One thing that putin has definitely taught Chi....do NOT scream _"Taipei in threeee daaayyyyys!!!"_ before you invade.😅

[@Realist369]

👆liar & 🤡👆

[@dpelpal]

@@Realist369 👆Russian Bot👆 and 🚽 thief 🤣

[@dpelpal]

@@plebius He's still mad his brother didn't get a toilet for the family flat.😅

[@dpelpal]

@@Realist369 Keep pumping pro UKR comments to the top, m'boy🤣

[@BaconGold790]

He’s not very well informed about this deal. Australia is buying 3 currently built Virginia class subs with the option of 2 more if the AUKUS subs experience delays. The AUKUS submarines is going to be a joint development between the UK and Aus, replacing the UK’s planned future SSN-R proposal to replace their Astutes. American involvement will likely be with ensuring intervention with their weapons and fire control since Australia currently uses their equipment on their current fleet.

[@kj1483]

13:18 / 22:54 hidden threat of submarines is "you really don't know what the threats to shipping are" .....Dominic O'Connell is from New Zealand. He is a business journalist, previously a business presenter on BBC Radio 4's Today Programme. On 1 November 2021 he moved to Times Radio, becoming that station's first ever business correspondent. wikipedia

[@marymarlow3646]

Ha! I thought I detected the trace of a NZ accent - or really that should be accnt since they leave out their vowels. Sorry NZ 😂🇦🇺

[@joehappe9376]

Monitor and Merrimack-American Civil War

[@markdavid7564]

There is a lot of incorrect information here.

[@jackwillmore2319]

Bless our British and Australian allies. Together with our other allies we will one day eradicate authoritarianism and communism from the face of the earth just as we did the concept of institutional slavery. Not until then can the world look forward to a future without nuclear war as a possibility.

[@niburu1508]

Jack - will they be doing that with depleted uranium bombs? See depleted uranium/ Iraq.

[@pumpkinpie2002]

@@niburu1508 Absolutely, if it saves allied lives it’s complete justified. If authoritarian governments had the technology and money you can bet they’d be using them without remorse. Why are you hung up on a tiny bit of residual radiation when the earths balance of power is at stake ? You must have green hair and face tattoos to think that narrowly.

[@stephensipe5405]

Can Ukrainians buy any of the aging UK or Australian non-nuclear hunter subs for Black Sea use after the war?

[@phillipgoodwin7776]

Hopefully 🇦🇺🇺🇦

[@gryph01]

The Collins class subs were built between 1990 and 2003. The older hulls might be getting weak. As for Ex-RN subs. All of their subs all have nuclear propulsion. All but one Trafalgars have been retired. The last Diesel-Electric class were the Upholders/ Victoria class. Canada bought 4 of them and it took us years to get them operational. Ukraine would be better off talking to Germany/France or Sweden. Germany and Sweden have good models that are smaller subs, but would work well in the Black Sea. The Gotland class has AIP along with diesel-electric and are extremely quiet. A good feature with the Russian Black Sea Fleet sharing the same water.

[@stephensipe5405]

@@gryph01 I was thinking Ukrainians might consider drone torpedos. These could be operated from land or via PT Boats. It might be a cost effective alternative to an actual sub. However, I know Sweden had mini-subs which also might work.

[@jeremyearl396]

CSS Hunley I believe

[@hawklord100]

A military stalemate is sufficent to deter and this is what AUKUS is designed to do but we must remember that Russia also has a Pacific military assests and once knocked back in Europe, could switch to the asia area and pacific by running its own gas and oil pipelines to service Asia and expand its military to support China in the area.

[@ashleylittle6776]

China aren't going to allow it's Russian vassal to muscle in on it's own home turf! Despite what is said China and Russia hate each other! Russians are extremely racist and China lay claim to to huge part of Eastern Russia including the port city of Vladivostok! Interesting China just republished maps of this area and they named the area with original Chinese names rather than the current Russian names! Russia is now very reliant on China and China look at them as a cheap supply of resources rather than a partner of equals!

[@PETE4955]

It already is at stalemate, if it wasn't we would be gone. MAD.

[@americasfavoritebrazilian2399]

I watched documentaries on America from WW11. They had that whole Country working everywhere!

[@tkmmkt6569]

We need to ramp up production significantly. Decades to build submarines is not sufficient

[@williamgrant7391]

Already been mentioned, but the H. L. Hunley, the first US sub built by the Confederate navy against the Union Navy as a blockade runner. On April 19, 1861, President Abraham Lincoln issued an order for the Union forces to begin a blockade of all major Confederate ports with the signing of the Proclamation of Blockade Against Southern Ports. Based on a plan by General-in-Chief Winfield Scott, its goal was to close all Confederate ports, preventing ships from exporting goods in support of commerce or delivering cargo and supplies to the South. Once in place, the Union’s Blockade strategy was very effective, covering 3,500 miles of coastline and 12 major ports. It was literally starving the South of supplies. The South grew increasingly desperate for any way to break the blockade to bring in much needed supplies. The newly formed Confederate States of America had to rethink traditional battle tactics at sea when up against the powerful and established Union Navy. Born out of necessity, this setting led the Confederates to make groundbreaking advancements in naval warfare and eventually led to the building of the world’s first successful submarine. The H. L. Hunley story begins here when Horace L. Hunley, James McClintock and Baxter Watson began to work together to find solutions to break the blockade. They attempted to take the battle beneath the water’s surface and built a series of experimental underwater vessels, and helped give birth to the age of the submarine.

[@jamesbohlman4297]

Both Confederate and Union sides at the end of the US Civil War fielded "submersibles". Both were involved in successful attacks; both ended up on the bottom with their crew. The USS Turtle sank with it's victim in port; the Confederate sub, after a successful action, was swamped by a storm in shallow water. This sub was lifted out of the mud and made ready to ride the ways into a museum. It's crew was buried with full Confederate military honors in the 1990's. No, I'm not making this last part up.

[@John-sp9kw]

We all live on a yellow submarine

[@stevesmith8155]

The Hunley was a successful combat submarine/submersible in 1864, which saw service for the Confederate States.

[@unifiedvision999]

The traitorous rebel states, you mean.

[@googleuser6319]

100 years later, i worry we're going to repeat ourselves

[@feliscorax]

Me too. The University of Michigan’s “Correlates of War Project”, run by one of the world’s most eminent scholars of international relations (and from the realist school to boot), J. David Singer, shows that alliances - far from having only the deterrent and defensive value they’re assumed to possess - do tend to also lead to situations which enable large-scale conflicts to arise. This research, which is a longitudinal study that shows high statistical probabilities, also confirms the observations made by the conservative historian, Niall Ferguson, in his “The Pity of War” . We’re living in dangerous times and the next decade or so could get spicy.

[@thomasjamison2050]

And all this with the Tory government that handled Covid. May God help the UK.

[@elgato9534]

The Holland was built in USA by Holland himself😂😢

[@thesuncollective1475]

Can we have a NATO base in Taiwan that will prevent action from China.

[@justonecornetto80]

NATO has no mandate to operate in the Pacific. Creating one would probably trigger a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.

[@dpelpal]

Hopefully our next president will simply declare Taiwan independent and be done with it.

[@mike4480]

Slava Ukraine………….thanks for yet another great video………💙💛💙

[@niburu1508]

You can have 10 - see how that turns out

[@dpelpal]

@@niburu1508 Russia doesn't have any Pacific bases at all🤭

[@phillipgoodwin7776]

🇦🇺🇬🇧🇺🇸👍👌Alliance

[@jillwilliamson4825]

I can see the ddh where they are built from my bedroom window

[@peetky8645]

Lucy!

[@s1nb4d59]

Us kiwis are part of ANZUS i believe?.

[@AFistfulOf4K]

"nukular" video closed find experts whose favorite snack isn't glue

[@martingrey2231]

Where are France and Japan?

[@RainerMichelle]

they are there, France especially, as it has territories in the Pacific region, , France has a huge Navy, and their own technology for nuclear submarines, but they refuse to share this technology with the US, this is why they are not part of the AUKUS deal

[@XxBloggs]

France is in Europe, Japan is in Asia.

[@vanessali1365]

Penny Wong had visited China met with Xi recently. Whatever discussed behind the closed doors have prompted that it's to Australia's interests to continue with AUKUS (proposed 19mth ago, survived the change of government) hence now the talk of building nuclear submarines for Australia. We will see Japan surely slowly integrating into the South East Pacific defense alliances. Japan has already made a pack with Germany, again, after Olaf Scholz visited China met with Xi. Before that, Philippines Marcos also met with Xi in china and made a complete U-turn to allow more US based in Philippines soil. Marcon and Lenyen are not visiting china meeting up with Xi. We can see a pattern here: the west is waking up to CCP's expansionism, trying to address it in a diplomatic way. They will act accordingly if they are/were met with a 'wall of steel' (Xi's words not mine). It's laughable many commenting about the west leaders are making a beeline to China to make trade deals because they knew they've done 'something wrong'. I'm eagerly waiting to hear what kind of announcements made public after their visit, and show CCP that's how good diplomacy is done, certainly not with some kind of wolves.

[@shiangchen1]

US technically civil war had the first submarine

[@StevenHaze]

AUKUS but the Interviewer still had to say UK first, English false sense of superiority still exists. Even after the disaster of Brexit, The English still think they are the best!

[@Villain1874]

This one is triggered 🔼😂

[@peterfromgw4615]

Mate, we all know the Poms are not the best so don’t worry about it. Grüße aus Australien.

[@theant9821]

That's a common theme throughout the English speaking world. Atleast the British are more subtle about it. Yanks are blatant in their arrogance and exceptionalism.

[@peterfromgw4615]

@@theant9821 Mate, totally agree with you regarding the Seppos. Arrorance and ignorance in equal measure. Grüße aus Australien.

[@andrewc1236]

until Australia builds its own Steven Segal we will be lost

[@johnnywalker4490]

Blather, blather... what was Q agsin?? oh, is it a stalemate= Unanswered !! like 'x-files'!!

[@sugoidessho]

NO - the collective West (to include free, democratic, civilized countries like Japan, S. Korea, Australia, Singapore etc) needs a NATO equivalent in the South China Sea to counter the growing and menacing threat from China and that is AUKUS. Hopefully more like-minded countries will join so that vile dictatorship China is surrounded in the region. We need to keep an eye on India as it seems an unreliable 'friend' to the West and I use the word loosely. And it's not just nuclear subs we need to be building, we need to beef up all of our military assets in the area so China is contained and will not dare invade Taiwan. Personally I'd like to see a permanent and potent AUKUS military presence on the island of Taiwan for deterrence.

[@gregphilipmusic]

Just have a listen to Keating mate you will learn about this ridiculous idea “balance of power “ 😅. It’s a piece of jargon used by you ‘experts’.

[@danshaw3239]

Build the doomsday device instead

[@gerry4b]

Am I the only one to notice Lucy is a goddess?

[@viking8889]

Lets hope that France And Chile doesn’t join. 😂.

[@pentegarn1]

I like Lucy Fisher. She reminds me of Mary Poppins. Or she would make the perfect Mary Poppins if they were to cast her.

[@gerry4b]

I wonder who’s the author of Lucy’s lovely primitive art? A daughter?

[@brucegibbins3792]

In this instance a race has more than one player. Australia will betray the understanding of a Nuclear free Pacific at least south of the equator a thing of the past. Australia has no current infrastructure to maintain Nuclear powered Submarines and right now no plans of how they will dispose of the Nuclear waste resulting from Nuclear propulsion. Not unsolvable problems, yet a political hot potato and of real concern to Australia's small island nations. In actuality not all of Australia was bombed by the Japanese as alluded to here, just the Northern Territory towns of Broome and Rockhamton and the city of Darwin. The current Morrison led federal government do have a gnat up their collective noses from paranoia by their own miscalculation that sooner or later the Chinese Navy will sail south and capture them while asleep in their beds.

[@IntrospectorGeneral]

Morrison's party lost the last Federal election. He hasn't been Prime Minister since May 2022.

[@markmarcas6523]

Australia should be smart and don’t get to close to US/UK. Also maybe we shouldn’t treat China as an active enemy so it doesn’t become one

[@georgeszurbach444]

Bottom line the Australian navy will get 15 years old Virginia subs around 2040 instead of new french subs by 2030 built locally at à much cheaper price. Plus going nuclear is the last thing Australia needed as it is not producing this energy putting the country in à total state of dependency towards the US. A move they will very soon regret.

[@gerryhouska2859]

Sorry, mate, not many Australians are concerned about the military power of China, most do NOT support AUKUS or a fleet of nuclear submarines, our greatest threat is the ever growing number of citizens surviving below poverty line, the unemployed, underemployed, homeless starving millions, with healthcare, social security, education gutted by some 45 years of neocon policies.

[@tcritt]

The epithet 'neocon' refers to someone with a hawkish foreign policy. It says nothing about someone's fiscal policy. The term you are looking for is 'neoliberal'.

[@niburu1508]

Gerry - sounds right to be next US/NATO proxy in their proxy war with China.

[@trioguitar]

It's true it doesn't have universal support, but I'm not sure you can categorically say that not many are concerned about the military power of China. In recent years, we've seen China play trade wars with Australia, hack into the Parliaments IT systems, and try and set up bases in the Pacific Islands and I'd suggest plenty of Australians, on both the left and right would be concerned about the behaviour of China. One thing I can promise, you could try running for Parliament on a platform of ripping up the alliance with the US and you would have zero prospect of being elected.

[@lesliewoinarowicz7018]

You will be when Chinese missiles greet Sydney, mate. Pacifist have never survived long in history, ask Mr. Chamberlain.

[@markkane8261]

Australia is still under British rule

[@florete2310]

Right... And you are still in the Kremlin's claws, "Mark"?

[@justonecornetto80]

Hello Ivan. Did you get your daily ration of cabbage and potatoes from Comrade Putin today?

[@bixbysnyder-00]

US and UK have friends, Russia has vassal states like Belarus

[@XxBloggs]

⬆️Russian bot.

[@gerryhouska2859]

No, we are not. Long ago we became a vassal of the US.

[@chrisc2671]

I haven’t listened to the whole thing yet but this guy is flat out wrong about two things so far. The first point is that he is calling it a military alliance. That’s not true, they are already allies. This is about technology sharing and interoperability. Nothing to do with a military alliance. He keeps calling it that which is annoying. Second, he just said that Australia might buy 3 to 5 brand new Virginia class submarines. He just made that up out of thin air. There has been no indication that that will happen anywhere. The plan actually is for Australia to buy second hand Virginia subs. They will be 10-15 years old. They are going to be sent back to the US when they need to be retired and decommissioned. They are just a. Stop gap before Australia gets the new (brand new) “SSN AUKUS”. Australia is not getting brand new Virginia class submarines. He is just making that up!