Converting a Starter Motor into a BLDC Motor

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In this video I convert a starter motor into a powerful BLDC bike motor.
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Is 3D Printing a motor possible? (Experiment) | GreatScott!: • Is 3D Printing a motor...
Hall Effect Sensor Placement for Permanent Magnet Brushless DC Motors: mitrocketscience.blogspot.com...
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[@user-ne3rb8ps8j]

For a no motor designer you did EXTREMELY impressive. But let me tell you a couple of things: Flat magnets, though can reduce torque up to 10%, won't make that much of a difference like you had. The motor should have pulled if everything else is ok. - Check if hall effect sensors are deep enough in the stator core so they are in front of the rotor magnets even if there is some misalignment; - check if the hall combination is correct, there are two of them which will spin the motor but one will produce torque; - double check magnet polarity.

[@felipehcraftgamer4193]

If the halls are wrong the current consunption would be high?

[@user-ne3rb8ps8j]

@@felipehcraftgamer4193 yes, and no load RPM could be high aswell

[@LoganDark4357]

when the motor failed to turn I was screaming YOU WIRED IT WRONG!!! not it was wound wrong. Not the magnets were wrong. He 1000000% wired it wrong. Just because some wire configuration can spin the motor with no load doesn't mean that's the correct way to wire it up. He probably later wired it correctly by accident and then blamed it on the rotor

[@user-ne3rb8ps8j]

@@LoganDark4357 back-EMF form will tell whether there is any winding or magnet troubles.

[@LoganDark4357]

@@user-ne3rb8ps8j reading some of the other comments I think it's also possible that it was the epoxy. In the video he literally acknowledged it was ferromagnetic and then proceeded to put a bunch of it around and between the magnets

[@Aaron48219]

Used to work in a shop running mills and lathes that did prototype work. That was a good deal. I think the JB weld putty is what threw your DIY rotor off, possibly the epoxy as well. You really need non-ferrous epoxies so you don't throw off the magnetic fields. Convert to belt drive or put a chain tensioner on the bike as well.

[@laurencerilling5873]

No a flat block on a curved surface seriously weakens the B field. They need to touch, and minimize gaps

[@A13tech]

Just a note, a ZF steering rack from bmw,mercedes etc. have very powerful servo motor (bldc) and can be bought very cheaply.

[@rkan2]

Would be interesting to see such used in a project!

[@AmaroqStarwind]

And a ZF limited slip differential, from what I heard, is like two freewheels put together.

[@th600mike3]

⁠@@AmaroqStarwind any more specific info you can give on which zf lsd to look for?

[@AmaroqStarwind]

@@th600mike3 I'm just going by what Wikipedia said when I read about freewheels.

[@th600mike3]

@@AmaroqStarwindah bummer! lol well thanks for the info to look into

[@oom_701]

good work! also install some thermocouples to check the temperature of the stator winding while riding

[@kezzatries]

I'm a motor rewinder of some 57 years experience on equipment from as small as dentists hand pieces (when they were electric) up to ships main drive armatures driven motors. You did good, I'd employ you.

[@I_Am_Your_Problem]

Go find the navy clown that is dunking on him for not using paper.

[@charletonzimmerman4205]

Should use 'Slot Paper " & lacing for end turns also dip or pour varnish, of stator. US Navy rewinder, 2- years.

[@I_Am_Your_Problem]

Ketchup sale boi. Powder coat.

[@dwang085]

Dude the amount of work and technical understanding you’ve got to get through all this on your own is IMPRESSIVE!!🎉🎉🎉

[@charlesstaton8104]

I was afraid the comments section was going to be a cesspit, just a bunch of "congratulations you just built a BLDC motor out of a BLDC motor" and "wow, so pointless." I am glad to see that I was wrong and all the comments so far are positive. This is a really cool project and a great learning experience. Thank you for sharing about JY Stator, I have been keeping an eye out for years for somewhere to get custom laminations made and everything i found was ridiculously expensive. You've found the answer for me!

[@xymaryai8283]

it is super awesome to do a project this ambitious to learn, but it was pointless, the only thing left from the starter was the casing, i wanted to learn more about *why* a starter makes for a bad or good motor, and how to remanufacture it to be better, not that an almost from scratch ameteur BLDC motor is indeed an ameteur BLDC motor. keeping the old stator coils and rotor and instead improving the cooling and winding, maybe by machining the large few stator coils into double or triple the electromagnets would have been much more interesting

[@charlesstaton8104]

@@xymaryai8283 Starter motors seem like a ton of power in a tiny package, and therefore an excellent candidate for an EV project. Not so.. a starter motor isn't a good EV motor because where most motors are rated for continuous duty, a starter is rated for intermittent duty. A starter might be rated (example) 5kW but if it were rated by the same criteria as other motors it probably couldn't claim to be more than 1kW. Starter motors make bad EV motors because you buy a 1kW motor to handle the job of a 5kW motor, because it claimed to be a 5kW motor. They have a LOT of torque in a small package but can't output it continuously without burning up. Like a drill. A corded or cordless drill might have enough torque to snap your wrist, but if you've ever used one at that torque level for more than a few seconds you probably know what it means to let the magic smoke out of a power tool. For an EV motor you need to choose a motor that is rated for continuous output. That motor is going to be a lot bigger than its similarly rated starter motor because it's ACTUALLY capable of delivering the rated power without going up in flames. If you wanted to remanufacture a starter motor to be a good EV motor all you would need to do is scratch off the rating plate and make a new one that reflects how much power it can actually output continuously without overheating. Then you will find that it is not the magical tiny powerhouse that it seemed. Its size is comparable to other motors with similar ratings.

[@abdosssamo5666]

it's not building a BLDC motor out of BLDC motor it's the learning experience , i learned alot about BLDC from watching his video

[@xymaryai8283]

@@charlesstaton8104 well theres more you can do, the BLDC motor he ended up with was better than the starter motor, and thats largely because of the more optimised coil topology, i wanted to learn more about what specific parameters make a low duty cyle motor better at its task and how to get more continuous power out of it than it would otherwise manage

[@Traderhood]

Channel owner can remove any messages he wants.

[@ahaveland]

*Respect!* I tried to use a small 400kv bldc motor to drive my bike using emery paper on the outrunner bell pressed against the back tyre. It worked for a few meters and burnt out! Was incredibly hot to touch, but fortunately it looked like the magnets survived. It took a while - sourcing the right AWG of wire, 15T x 4 strands, 12 poies and 14 magnets, and finding a hydraulic press to release the core, took photos to record disassembly and managed to recreate winding layout and it worked first time! Would have been much easier to buy a new one, but the satisfaction was priceless!

[@afreestone101]

Thank you for the fantastic video sharing your custom BLDC motor build for the bike! I've been looking to build a custom BLDC motor myself for a completely different application (small but powerful blower fan for a project I've been working on for years). Your mention of JY Stator suddenly had me glued to the rest of your video, as the stator was the very thing I've been having difficulty with! Incredible work on winding the stator by the way - it may have looked like mere minutes of work in your video (especially when you re-wound it!), but I know first hand that job can take HOURS! Keep up the awesome work - this is a truly rewarding hobby isn't it?

[@felixyasnopolski8571]

For a blower I really recommend you to look into BLDC motors for rc models. They're small yet powerful

[@puntabachata]

Thanks for walking us through. Great build!

[@austiwawa]

Thanks!

[@amogusenjoyer]

150$ is insane. It wouldn't even cover the cost of getting your cad file checked out in some places here... especially if you are looking for a one off thing. Just crazy!

[@VEC7ORlt]

I could probably get quarter of that stack lasered out if I ask nice enough, but cut, epoxied and delivered - oh hell naw.

[@pauljcampbell2997]

This was a very cool project. Regardless of the cost, the learning process was invaluable.

[@klave8511]

Fantastic work, well done. Loved the design process and innovative builds.

[@murraymadness4674]

I've thought of many ways to make cheap motors, but unless your goal is just clicks for your channel (which is obviously the goal of many channels..) then you really need to think of where you can get cheap or almost free motors that are easy to modify. btw, I actually worked on converting a brushed dc motor into brushless. I suggest you start looking for big ceiling fans, almost free. These are a great choice, but in my efforts I discovered many have the number of poles not divisible by three, so no 3 phase. However, I've also learned that you don't have to build a 3-phase brushless motor! You can build a 4-phase one. A 3phase is just easier and uses less components, but that means NOTHING when you are doing it yourself for a one-off prototype. The other option that is now become easy to find is direct drive washing machines, they have large diameter 3 phase motors in them that can be modified for lots of power.

[@icarossavvides2641]

I agree, seems like he's trying to re-invent the wheel? Also a very messy installation on the bicycle.

[@I_Am_Your_Problem]

How many motors have you built?

[@KenFullman]

@@icarossavvides2641 No he's using the existing wheels 🤣

[@Hellsslave666]

Really cool that you were almost able to build a BLDC motor from scratch, I dont't however think that converting a starter motor is the right title.

[@WaffleStaffel]

Wow, that is persistence. Great job!

[@en2oh]

Brilliant! Very helpful to provide information around reasonably priced custom laminated cores.

[@dansacco1964]

Very cool project. Interesting trick for removing enamel from the mag wire: Melt an aspirin tablet with your soldering iron and dip the wire in the puddle. It eats the enamel off the wires quickly. It also makes dangerous smoke so use a fume hood or other good ventilation.

[@bavankarthik7634]

When i started on electronics, I didn't even know that there was a coating on the wire. All the projects I did using it would fail due to this reason and i got soo furious that i just gave up..........until i realised it from a youtube short.

[@I_Am_Your_Problem]

Yeah... that is clearly simple. Way more simple that a wire stripper...

[@RobertBeck-pp2ru]

Excellent work and as you learned, we also learned. Good job!

[@andersson.l.e]

Great build. Well done.

[@emaglott]

That's a lot of work. Cool!

[@Madkite]

Juat a tip on the cooling form befor. Forced air cooling. A crappy fan on the end of the old dunamos in the 50's chaged the output from 11A to 22A. Passive holes dont do a lot. Suck the air theough. Doesn't need jet engine aerodynamics. Just a spoked fan and inlet and outlets.

[@mikkelr1]

You know its a good day, when Austiwawa uploads! 👌

[@austiwawa]

Thank you!

[@diegobenitez5315]

The 3D printed fittings for the wire are the most genius engineering idea of all!!! Amazing

[@tntgdh]

awesome project bro !

[@foxxyytofficial]

I missed your uploads, nice to see you again

[@austiwawa]

Thanks foxxy!

[@Codyhumburg]

Awesome video!

[@MCsCreations]

Amazing, Austin! Pretty fantastic work! 😃 Really well done!!! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@austiwawa]

Thank you MC!

[@sadeemalam7497]

Love u austin. I m impressed with innovative work. I want to do this. Plz advise me. If u don't mind kindly share with me your WhatsApp no as I want to share my projects made ​@@austiwawa

[@hijazecell5471]

Very great work

[@user-pr9zh8ki7k]

Good job man

[@Bianchi77]

Creative video, thank you :)

[@phoneixinvestor]

Great job on the entire project including the video, production, and content delivery. You have earned a new subscriber....👍🐒

[@bikefarmtaiwan1800]

Wow! You did a fantastic job !! Really crammed a great deal of useful info in the video . I looked through the comment section and listened to your video but no one seems to have noticed that your first motor was just pulling the drive sprocket through the chain - that motor may well have been just fine 12:53. Secondly , I have had similar projects and found that old squirrel cage motors are great source of stators for this kind of project though it is brilliant to know about the source you used and the ideas you have entertained . Great video - subbed for sure .

[@davidgleatham9966]

so back before fancy batteries i walked into Mitches ' fab shop' to get some bracket made; when he shows me his electric bike.... a petal sprocket between his legs allowed a 6v starter battery (um, between the knees) to spin a 12v ford starter and a boats horn button/switch all on a huffy frame. went 35mph. Mitch used it to get his mail, a 5 min run. ran it like a dirt bike; press the button/full power or coast.

[@metricstormtrooper]

This is just brilliant stuff.

[@austiwawa]

Thank you!

[@jayt825]

Yoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!! What a nice surprise! Great work man!!

[@austiwawa]

Thanks Jay!

[@SDS-1]

The starter motor casing is just beefy and pretty

[@Celenecho1997]

Animation king 👑

[@DanelonNicolas]

good job!

[@PastThePoint]

Excellent video. Got me to subscribe. 🙂

[@Ed_Stuckey]

Already a subscriber. As always, I 👍 I'm adding a comment because I'm told that helps too.

[@austiwawa]

Thank you!

[@user-kv6lw4cp4u]

Very good ❤

[@user-gj9mo5is6f]

مجهود عظيم و رائع ..أتمنى لكم مزيدا من التقدم و النجاح في تقديم إبداعاتكم الهادفة

[@gannas42]

Is that AFX/Aphex Twin as your music? Dig it! Thanks for sharing this very interesting video, man.

[@BurnerJones]

Badass.

[@Ozzy3333333]

Low reluctance is a big factor in motor preformance. If you have a inductance meter, the reluctance can be checked with ARM inserted, take all readings and average them (or turn the arm to the position get the highest inductance, this is the lowest reluctance)

[@electrolab233]

Good job

[@donovangibson7765]

Get some magnetic field viewing film and compare field lines on your rotor vs the bldc one.

[@sammyjimsmith6100]

I never heard of this film, but now I want some.

[@dronko-fire-blaster]

I think at this pont you just stuck a new moter in the case of the old one, but still very impressive, well done!

[@danielyombalakian7534]

La verdad que no ví la modificación de starter a blcd, solo se utilizó el eje y la carcasa y el resto se hizo de manera artesanal, valoro eso, pero las modificaciones, las horas invertidas, el mecanizado y todo el esfuerzo superan el costo de un motor comercial. Para demostrar tu ingenio y que cualquier cosa es posible, para eso👏👏👏👏

[@jameswyatt1304]

Excellent build and interesting service. Could you have kept the starter rotor as an exciter field, rather than rare earth magnets? It's a direction the German auto industry is evaluating to ease magnetic sourcing concerns.

[@1kreature]

LOVE these pointless projects! Great job! I once cut apart the stator of a brushed inrunner motor (speed 300) and glued the stators to the inside of the can. Then put two magnets on a shaft and slapped it in there. Amazingly the motor runs and even flies a model plane! Oh and you should never push bearings in place from the opposite race. Always press on the race that you are fitting to avoid axial loads on the balls/races.

[@reverse_engineered]

One possibility to better approximate an arc magnet is to use several narrower bar magnets. This is similar to how we approximate a smooth curve as a bunch of short line segments. I don't know if you could find magnets of those dimensions, but I would suspect it might be easier than finding those large bars. You can use almost any size you want if you don't mind sticking a bunch of them together along either the width or the length. The strength of a magnet is roughly the same as its N value. N42 is somewhere in the middle. You could get N52 or even N55, but that's only 25% stronger - not enough to explain the difference between your rotor and the one from the other BLDC motor.

[@WeberMachineWorks]

the best way to learn

[@randomconstructions4513]

there are also lazer cutting services for motor laminations also if you plan to try something like this yourself, starting with a alternator rather than a starter motor is more likely to give you the parts you need to convert it to a bldc.

[@solomon__ejay]

Ohhh my Gosh. Austin I think you've been reading my thouhts eactly. I've been wanting to do ths for such a while. I even consdered usig the magets from an old and damaged hoverboard wheel i have laying around. I'm just 5 secs into the video, but had to pause it jut to write this comment. Thanks Austin. You're awesome.

[@austiwawa]

Thanks!

[@AppliedCryogenics]

Circulate some 3M Fluorinert though the stator housing. It worked for Seymour Cray. :-D

[@autarchex]

Brief application of flame from a cigarette lighter will remove the insulation from magnet wire. It burns away almost instantly leaving some carbon that wipes away easily.

[@mahendramobileshop8891]

custom BLDC motor really cool project

[@lohikarhu734]

Funny, the wire stripper is the same as my first one that I bought in about 1968... Good tools don't *need* to change!

[@oliverfree200]

Incrível man

[@TheLevush]

Just use the brushed starter motor as is and operate it using a mosfet based PWM chopper. Thats it. Your DIY bike will break before the coal brushes of the starter motor wear. Also these brushes can be changed. If you rotate the holder of the brushes against the case you can optimize torque and speed. Also you can have a lever to move it if needed. So keep things simple and operational.

[@TimpBizkit]

I remember my starter motor powered wooden go-kart thing I made as a kid and yes the motor overheated and died. The first one was terrible. It had a wooden broom pole axel with no bearings that would rub through with friction. It had a toothed fan belt that happened to fit the starter motor tooth profile and went to two wooden discs on the back broompole axle and nails were between them to grip the fan belt. When I first hooked it up it went backwards and because starter motors have an electromagnet instead of a permanent magnet, changing the polarity does nothing so I had to saw out the motor mount and change it. The second 5 wheeler creation where the main wheels are old pram wheels in the go kart frame, and the starter motor was on a fifth wheel with a thinner bolt axle so less friction was better. It also had a relay so didn't have to connect to the sparky battery. The relay and motor also eventually blew. Neither were very efficient on battery life.

[@ovalwingnut]

"Custom Wire EDM Laminates"? Deal of the century. Color me impressed. Cheers from So.Ca.USA 3rd House On the Left

[@drewhailstones4106]

How did u get to use Zedaph's create series intro tune in this vid?

[@nraynaud]

nice project. Have you explored the idea of a rotor wound synchronous motor while you had a wound rotor?

[@score-bike2155]

Kawał dobrej roboty przy swoim projekcie też się narobiłem

[@chadcarpenter9742]

Hello, great project! In my experience, I had a sensored brushless RC motor I wanted to reverse. The esc didn't have that option, so after days of drawing pictures, I came up with a sensor order that "worked" with no load. But in the car on the track, there was low power, limited speed, and motor became vary warm. I would expect your motor to run better than it did. I think you should look into your sensor wire configuration.

[@austiwawa]

Thanks! I ended up trying every possible combination and it unfortunately didn't work under load. I also expected it to work better.

[@ashleyenglish2325]

How does the controller handle the high starting current of the starter motor?

[@thomassutrina8296]

My guess is that the iron in JB weld is under 20% which means you need to also add the air gap on the epoxy side. Thus the real air gap is the maximum you measured. I come to this conclusion because that is about the content in thermal conductive epoxy. Second the rotor didn't need laminated steel or even great magnetic steel since the field is fixed it it. This would also have opened up other layouts of a rotor to reduce the air gap by having steel poles. One thing nice about epoxy or other glues is that when you get them hot they loose their strength or get brittle which is what epoxy does. For machining the magnets could be replaced by steel plates. Disassembled and up together with the magnets.

[@freelectron2029]

You should have spent your money getting a dia EDM cut so you could press thin sheets of iron rather than just one solid block. You need sheets because eddie current drastically increases permetivity of the magnet field. Would have been similar outlay, but you could make multiple motors with one dia. Maybe ring the edm company up and ask then if they have your off cut ;)

[@Altirix_]

if you are getting magnets, especially from aliexpress its common for them to promote their item as higher grades than they are in reality. eric draken has a blog on the issue, defo work out a way to confirm the magnets properties. Keep in mind Standard neodymium magents are rated to 80c, minor permanent degradation will occur until the curie tempeature. most motors are rated for around 180c to 200c. you would want UH or EH class magnets.

[@victoryfirst2878]

Austin, I did the exact same thing you did with a starter motor for a high torque GM big block engine. This is supposedly rated 5 H.P. 12 volts. Dealing with the heat problem, I made a tubing that fits snugly outside the starter. Then used a larger tube with rings on the ends to keep water inside tubing which got radial fins on the outside. This would keep the motor cool for at least a half hour. But the low HP of the starter motor made this an not so perfect unit. I should of just made me a ground up build like you did fella. Paying 170 dollars is just a steal for sure. Nice video Austin. v

[@austiwawa]

Thank you!

[@user-je5gw4px2x]

Ademas tenes diseñado algun motor Axial????. Gracias por tu Video

[@watahyahknow]

hmmmm wonder if you couldve had the original starter motor housing machined out to the 100mm of the brushless dc motor , it wouldve reduced the wallthickness by 2.5mm but you couldve used a standard sized electrical metal i think it wouldve been a cheaper option even using aluminium/steel pipe with a 100mm inner diameter and just cut it to length wouldve been an option as you not using ANYof the stock features other than the centering on the endplates (and you could make 2.5mm thick rings for those to slide in after installing the stator , would hold the stator in the center of the housing as well ) you might be able you grind the magnets rounder to fit the stator better using some sort of toolpost grinder (angle grinder mounted to toolpost and work slowly )

[@seancunningham7589]

What kind of lathe is that you have there?

[@eclectictech]

If you have an interest, you could redo your rotor by milling flats for the magnets, then using soft iron 'shims' on top of the magnets to minimize the radial gap. Minimize the thickness of the shims to the degree possible. The shims will be approximately the same dimensions as the magnets with a flat side to yh magnet and a creved side towards the stator. Would be interesting to see what kind of improvement you could make with this arrangement using the same magnets

[@user-je5gw4px2x]

Hola , Gracias por tu video desde Argentina, si podes indicar sobre conversor DC a AC

[@zez000]

how about using it on a car making it plugin hybrid? I wonder if you could reduce fuel consumption

[@ScorpionRanchTX]

Converting an alternator into a motor would also be a fun project. They are already wound three phase.

[@peterduxbury927]

The EV Car Industry such as Tesla could probably employ a young man with incredible drive and ambitions. Greetings from Australia.

[@I_Am_Your_Problem]

Awwww... You like con bois working the grift. Good on you!

[@George.___]

You basically made a new motor from scratch with only some size dimensions borrowed from the original starter. This is very impressive and you did a great job, but the title is a bit misleading since the starter wasn’t converted.

[@skrywenko6596]

for your starter motor all you really needed to was to modify the housing to incorporate a fan to provide forced air to prevent it from over heating or just used an old automotive style DC generator ( not an alternator) and use it as a motor

[@DrHarryT]

Use an alternator with the tree phase control and modify the rotating field with permanent magnets so you don't have to use energy to drive a field coil.

[@Radoblenc]

Can you get one of those "Magnetic field viewers" and check the orientation of your magnets? Will you consider a Halbach array of rotor magnets? You may have to make deeper cuts in your rotor to place the magnets.

[@u3b3rg33k]

sweet build. Why did you choose BLDC instead of induction via shorting the commutator?

[@user-di8il8ks5i]

Golden Motor Company been making water cooled 5,10, 20KW BLDC's and controllers specifically for conversions of bikes, scooters, motorbikes, boats and cars for over 30years.

[@funnylife7454]

What if you try turning down the magnets start cutting the magnets in a circular form

[@MigotRen]

You could probably greatly increase duty cycle/peak power with active cooling. you already have an open design. I dont know how much space is left in the bearing flanges but it seems possible from the outsitde. maybe extend the housing with spacers bit?

[@Mateo-wf1yz]

You should have gone with an outrunner BLDC design instead of the inrunner you choosed. Outrunners have much more torque as the rotor is much bigger and thus reduces the need for a gearbox. That's why RC planes that needs to drive a big propeller uses BLDC outrunners and dont need a gearbox.

[@mc4ndr3]

What are the symptoms of a motor overheating? What do you think about adding a thermometer, or even automatic shutoff based on temperature samples?

[@lesjolley8389]

Starter motors have shunt winding which causes back pressure this increases torque if you missed that step try cutting out the shunt winding

[@tonydoggett7627]

30+ years ago! I used a electrical powered spinning blade enamel striping tool that worked well. even on PEI-2 wire.

[@studentofscience]

You can wind a pole with 2 strands of wire and run then in series at low speeds then in parallel at high speeds this will reduce back voltage and allow more current to flow at higher speeds with out having to have more battery voltage.

[@boelwerkr]

I made a stator by soft soldering iron sheets together, then machining the stack, de-soldering it all and then gluing all the sheets together with epoxy soaked gaze. Gluing it from the beginning wasn't good enough for the machining and leaving it soldered would have negated the hole purpose of laminating.

[@albertmagician8613]

It is a breeze to remove shellack from copper wire. Lay the wire on top of an aspirin tablet and apply solder to it. You have to use pure acetyl salicylic acid without other medicines or pain killers.

[@I_Am_Your_Problem]

Yeah... that is clearly simple.

[@hardwareful]

The sponsorship doesn't make sense - how is this not sponsored by JYStator? Such a cool service! Ah well.

[@IIGBII]

Great Video. How about adding regeneration to the BLDC motor so when you apply the brakes you generate power back into a Super-capacitor to get you going again before using the battery, saving battery power.

[@senoleker]

Could you make a video explaining the differences between BLDC and PMSM motors? I couldn't find clear information on this. When can we refer to a motor as BLDC and when as PMSM?