Beethoven: Sonata Op.31 n.3 "Hunt" - Historical Tempo Reconstruction - Pianoforte: Alberto Sanna

[@Garrett_Rowland]

There is a great deal of music I listen to that I thoroughly enjoy; much of it has been on this channel. Mostly, listening is my main enjoyment. There are some recordings that I listen to, however, that give me a joyful longing to play the music for myself. This recording falls into the latter category. From the first movement, I was already vicariously playing the music at my own piano as I sat and listened. That never stopped until the very end of the performance, and never became any less enjoyable (even more so in certain places, rather). After listening, I was happy to read in your description that this was one of your most enjoyed recording thus far. I did not necessarily expect to read that, but it was not at all a surprising statement. I am glad that you enjoyed performing it as I enjoyed being audience to it. There is perhaps a good bit of truth in C.P.E. Bach's quote: "A musician cannot move others unless he too is moved. He must of necessity feel all of the affects that he hopes to arouse in his audience, for the revealing of his own humour will stimulate a like humour in the listener."

[@neelsdp1]

The horses enjoy this speed, assuming some hunters owned a horse, a work horse, not a race horse:) I loved it. Every note has a value.

[@robintranter6530]

One of my favourite Beethoven Sonatas. Thank you.

[@michaelschwaiger8071]

Just re-watched and -heared the sonata. I enjoyed it even more than at the premiere. Especially the first movement, which I didn't quite like in the first hearing, grew the second time ...

[@yakinthebox]

Such a beautiful sonata

[@lavendelle_swift]

After I watched Tiffany Poon's Vlogs ... she played this ... This interpretation of the piece suits the "Hunt", especially in the Fourth Movement (37:08)

[@Garrett_Rowland]

@Dr. K. She is a product of the current environment. Her ability to hear extremely subtle articulations in others' (and her own) playing is quite impressive, and she has a huge amount of sensitivity and care in her playing. Even if she were able to be exposed to this kind of research and performance, and even if she were convinced by it, she makes a living playing in the conventional way. There is no way in her state to really come around, her entire livelihood depends on it. (Anyone commenting on this channel should know how harsh the kickback to this kind of thinking/playing is in the modern music environment.) She is a bundle of unfortunate circumstances, not an imbecile. I can only hope the pressure of the modern musician's lifestyle (and the modern athletic tempi) don't do her too much harm.

[@lavendelle_swift]

@@Garrett_Rowland That is true. Listen to her Scarlatti's K 380. and other pieces she play. ...

[@MegaMech]

I like the presto! Much fun.

[@wolkowy1]

Your choice in the last movement, secondo me, was the right one. It was well balanced against the other movements, and fullfiled the "Presto con fuoco" at the same time. After all, it was still within the boundaries of the tempi given by Czerny. I've heard your performance for this Sonata, Alberto, as if I knew nothing about it and about other performances, and enjoyed it enormously. I do suggest, in certain full-of-meaning-places, where there are repetitions of one note or the same pattern, to grade each repetition by means of crescendo or diminuendo. It will bring the level of your playing to a higher place, without hurting the WBMP or the supposed Beethoven's authentic intentions. By the way, after hearing your performance, I tried to hear others, and just couldn't (you are to blame for this! :) ). Yours brought up the beauty of "all kinds of emotions" (cit. from your info. section) and theirs, in contrast, was heard as a lunatic race! Thanks for performing and uploading. Bravo!

[@the_wrong_note]

The last movement's musicality is enough to prove its legitimacy.

[@tarikeld11]

The Allegretto is finally an Allegretto

[@claudiobarnabe5403]

A tutti gli amici del single beat, dico: suonatelo al doppio della velocità e dopo, ma solo dopo, ci mettiamo a discutere

[@Nessuno777]

La musica non è uno sport, non credo che sia giusto metterla sul piano del “io so suonare più veloce perché sono più bravo”. Sarebbe come dire a Rothko “prima fai un quadro iperrealista alla Gerhard Richter e poi riparliamo di espressionismo astratto”. Semmai il problema è che molta musica suonata così è di una noia mortale. Allora chi se ne frega di come suonava Beethoven o Chopin? O meglio, è giusto studiare la filologia della prassi esecutiva, ma alla fine la musica di 200 anni fa deve emozionarci ancora oggi, in un epoca completamente diversa, deve parlare a orecchie che hanno sentito Schoenberg, Stockhausen, Il rock e il jazz. Altrimenti la riduciamo a un reperto archeologico da museo.

[@robertharrington7560]

I remember practicing this piece at just that speed.

[@arkensian1387]

I’ve been waiting for this one for a while now. Love it!

[@wiaamhaddad8550]

I think the inégalités here are a bit exaggerated

[@ericrakestraw664]

45:03 -- The second movement scherzo always reminded me of a dog chasing a stick. 😂

[@roberacevedo8232]

I can’t be the only one. Did anyone else disliked the last movement until hearing it being played by Alberto? Fantastic work Alberto. Very well played

[@roberacevedo8232]

Not always the case troll. Same with modern performances, you never like all of it. To answer, there are many pieces in DB that I like, and others that I really don’t. To give an example, I prefer sonata 15 much faster than how it was played here. However that doesn’t change that, the way it was played here was most likely the closest to Beethoven.

[@roberacevedo8232]

There are Chanels that play in SB. Real SB, check out their comments and see if they are not saying the same, that you appear to be trolling here. If you don’t like it, then look for something else.

[@anthonymccarthy4164]

For once I am not listening with the score but there are so many details you actually hear and hear in context at this speed that in the industrial speed performances are not heard and probably not really played. I tried to imagine the first movement played at twice this speed, the "single beat" speed of Czerny's MMs and it would be a musical atrocity that might get you a lot of hits online but not the approval of anyone who cared about the music.

[@AlbertoSegovia.]

A very beautiful sonata. Thanks for the hard work! A thought: Have you considered reaching out to Pappano? He shows “common sensibility” and restraint and, while I was listening to his Respighi, Schumann, and Prokofiev, I thought: maybe he should see your work.

[@Rollinglenn]

Thank you Wim and Alberto!

[@jujoropo]

Thank you guys! Beautiful music to our souls :) Congrats for the amazing job you are doing

[@anfalagu]

Bravo 💪

[@susankinney5193]

That was great, Alberto! Definitely not too slow lol. 😁

[@thomashughes4859]

C'était merveilleux, Alberto!

[@janpawel6416]

Presto comedico

[@unclebob1013]

Besides the richness of the opening harmony (which is the only thing preserved in this 'historical' interpretation..), the first movement completely loses its quality of alternating optimism and melancholy. It sounds like a string of disparately connected musical ideas with no central integrity. The alberti bass is painful to listen to at this speed and is entirely distracting from the melody. It is of course outrageous to suggest that these are the historical tempi as there is a huge amount of historical evidence which demonstrates works of this time lasted as long as they do now (For example Beethoven's 'Fidelio', in which the playbill from 1821 clearly says 'Der Unfang ist um 6 Uhr, das Ende um halb 9 Uhr' - 'The Beginning is at 6, the end at half past 8', as long as any modern day performance in single-beat tempo). There is nothing wrong with playing Beethoven's sonatas in half-speed, and the interpretation is interesting, just don't claim that was what he intended and that what you have is truer to him than any other pianist (Barenboim, Arrau, Lisitsa, Richter etc.)

[@albertosanna4539]

You might find these videos interesting! kzbin.info/www/bejne/goq4k598faqtl7M kzbin.info/www/bejne/naTRpaOvoNtkoLM kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYGuk3iEaJZ7rLM kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2Wxh4WnZax1ptU We reconstruct music starting from the metronome numbers given by composers or important editors of their music and our guess is that a MM given by Czerny (Beethoven's best student) is certainly more reliable and important than a concert duration of which we don't know the context. How did the musician play? Did he/she play according to Liszt's option number 1(the authentic composer's intention) or number 3 (as the audience wanted the performer to play? To astonish as a charlatan). Did he play all the movements, since that was a rare practice until late 19th century? Did the musician follow those metronome numbers that were given to show a much slower tradition of tempi for that music, or not? Since it is impossible to know all of this, it will be well understood, that is also impossible to reconstruct the tempi the composers had in mind starting from concerts where their music was played by others and of which we do not know the context. When all these composers wanted to indicate their tempi, did they write on the score "check the duration of this concert"? Or did they write on top of the score, as the first thing, a metronome number? And is the metronome number part of the score? And are we not supposed to follow the score? Metronome numbers were given so contemporaries and musicians of future generation could know in any place and at any time, what the tempi the composer had in mind were. So yes, you hear this right, this is a recording where this sonata is played according to an historical metronome number, therefore an historical tempo. And no, it is not outrageous to call it as it is, because it's the truth. And if the fact that we say the truth bothers you, it is one more reason for us to do it more often :) Maybe you can suggest another historical reconstruction, where this piece is played still according to these metronome numbers, but with the single beat theory reading. Good luck in playing that (especially the last movement) twice as fast. Little spoiler, you can't! Sorry for ruining YOUR Beethoven.

[@Ohsoaskarian]

Right like why is it sooooo slow

[@unclebob1013]

@@albertosanna4539 Mr Sanna, it is not MY Beethoven it is Barenboim's, Arrau's, Lisitsa's, Richter's and countless others' Beethoven which you have 'ruined' in your own words. Pianists are perfectly capable of playing the last movement at twice the speed (See 'Beethoven Sonata #18 Op.31 No.3 E♭ Major Valentina Lisitsa' on youtube fourth movement), it just takes effort and dedication. There is no reason to believe Czerny intended these absurd tempos when they would be impossible for a singer or string player in a slow movement. Maybe you should play an adagio or largo from a Beethoven trio or string quartet on this channel in your double beat theory. (Spoiler, you can't) :)

[@surgeeo1406]

Yeah, this was one of the best ones, ever... Beethoven throws a party, it's pretty much that.

[@stuffclusters]

i fell asleep

[@stuffclusters]

@@pabst2221 oh yes, so exciting that gave me an induced coma

[@roberacevedo8232]

You mean like when Brahms fell a sleep during Liszts performance of the b minor sonata? Surely this single detail tells us so much about how boring and un important that b minor sonata is. Just like this sonata by Beethoven. Thank you for the insight, just like he cared for Brahms in the past. Or the booing of the rite of spring. Real informative of the people listening.

[@kefka34]

Great! What famous chord is hiding in the first movement?

[@Renshen1957]

"The Lost Chord" (okay just Joking...) Arthur Sullivan's Song: I was weary and ill at ease, And my fingers wandered idly Over the noisy keys; I know not what I was playing, Or what I was dreaming then, But I struck one chord of music, Like the sound of a great Amen, Like the sound of a great Amen. Like the close of an angel's psalm, And it lay on my fevered spirit, With a touch of infinite calm, It quieted pain and sorrow, Like love overcoming strife, It seemed the harmonious echo From our discordant life, Into one perfect peace, And trembled away into silence, As if it were loth to cease; I have sought but I seek it vainly, That one lost chord divine, Which came from the soul of the organ, And entered into mine. Will speak in that chord again; It may be that only in Heav'n I shall hear that great Amen. It may be that death's bright angel Will speak in that chord again; It may be that only in Heav'n I shall hear that great Amen.

[@kefka34]

@@Renshen1957 Maybe it´s also in there,but what´s really in the sonata is the "Tristan-chord".

[@Renshen1957]

@@kefka34 The Tristan-chord, BW (before Wagner).

[@Neste1001]

Hi! I would be grateful to you if some time you make a reconstruction video in which you would declare and play this sonata both in single beat tempo and double beat tempo. And make comparisons between this two perceptions of pulse and tempo. I think that double pulse has its benefits when it comes to musical phrasing etc. I think also that Beethoven got his music from God but just music, not the absolute tempo or speed. Cheers! Ps. I have heard about this tempo measurement theory - as it's been called bouble beat theory- in connection to Reger's organ music. It is very interesting, Regers music is been performed Very fast in past decades. Cheers!

[@clumpypiano]

Quite terrible piano playing tbh

[@AuthenticSound]

Yes, Alberto is just an amateur tbh. (spoiler - check the guy's background :-)-

[@billligon4005]

You can use the YT 'settings' button to increase the speed, just to your liking. Or of course you can slow it down(ouch). Wonderful!

[@NN-rn1oz]

The Hunt. For slugs.

[@surgeeo1406]

Creative & Original!!

[@ghosha7171]

do you know the russian proverb that the only thing which you must do really fast is a flea hunt ?

[@Robert...Schrey]

if you play it so slowly, it should be possible to execute the opening motiv exactly.

[@emilehaddad2648]

Can we not find in the literature of the 18th and early 19th centuries about musical performances any description of the DURATION of the ACTUAL PERFORMANCE of a certain composition that will indicate to us how fast the tempo was of that actual performance?! Similarly, can we find a reference to the actual duration of a Beethoven concert or recital of known program where the specific compositions are known?

[@mantictac]

They exist but there are some supposed problems with those measurements: they can sometimes be approximate or told in retrospect, and more interestingly, the times may have been measured similarly to the metronome indications, with the swing of a pendulum. So these durations may be twice as long as they are interpreted now.

[@surgeeo1406]

@@mantictac He just posted this in three videos. Just trying to reanimate a controversy that doesn't exist anymore. Wim already said that he doesn't research performances, and doesn't recognize them as having any relevance to his research, that deals with the scores only.

[@claudiabatcke1312]

For a glimpse into the problems with performances and their durations, check out this video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/naTRpaOvoNtkoLM

[@derekgeorgeandrews]

But...hunting is faster than this. Haha 😄

[@TheSummoner]

But...the “Hunt” title wasn’t given by Beethoven. Haha 😄

[@carljacobs1287]

In the final movement they are hunting at the speed of a canter. Horses have got four gears - speeds - walk, trot, canter, gallop. The canter is as our jog to a sprint. You would not sprint in a hunt, you would jog, otherwise you would tire out before your prey. Alberto plays at a canter - perfect for a hunt!

[@NN-rn1oz]

@@TheSummoner Correct. Beethoven's suggested title was the Opium Sonata.

[@TheSummoner]

@@NN-rn1oz somewhat funny but still not true