Healer Damage Does(n't) Matter

After a recent video about the healer role changing for the future of Mythic+ from @MadSkillzzTV I wanted to share my thoughts specifically on healer damage in Dragonflight. How it DOES matter in both the macro and micro and how it also does not matter as much for the average player.
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[@dgrrgirl1620]

I dont mind helping with dps just dont say you should be doing x amount while people are stand in fire

[@stevebonk8995]

I mentioned this in another comment, can’t expect a certain amount of damage from us AND stand in the fire cause us to have to hard heal them lol. To be fair I haven’t worked up to the higher keys yet this season.

[@klinckster]

Perfect example of Micro damage is important are times when like burning something like last boss in bracken with killing totem. If your group isnt killing totem fast enough its most likely healer not helping.

[@The_Fictionist]

I hate this design. If the healer has to be a healer and a DPS for the group to succeed then, IMO the game is balanced wrong.

[@asasdsaasda]

If the group isn't killing the totem fast enough it's because they fail to switch fast enough, simple as that, that 2/3 global a healer end up using wil never be a factor to kill the totem, should healer DPS the totem? Yes, is the healer the reason the totem didn't die? Nop

[@klinckster]

@@asasdsaasda Timed a 14 bracken and this week and healer died on totem fight so we had to BR but totem didnt go down without healer up doing dmg to totem during no cd phase. It helps a lot for niche things. Personally on my disc priest I have never seen a totem go off because I pump that totem.

[@stevebonk8995]

People will demand healer damage and then stand in the swirly’s causing us to have to hard heal them. As an hpally I bring about 50k dps overall to the table in a run. No idea if that’s considered good or not lol

[@sasananovski9644]

rather I would say that dps switched to totem late or has bad dps.

[@Taylors1389]

I think as a disc main the issue I see blizz having a lot is passive vs active DPS with healers. Disc is easy to balance their damage since they are always doing DPS. Something like a resto shaman or a holy priest kinda has to choose whether they are currently doing DPS or healing and so their spells hit a lot harder. But that becomes an issue when they just spam damage and end up doing wayyy more than a disc priest could ever dream of. I ultimately love doing damage as a healer but I feel like that should be a bonus I bring rather than the reason I spec into holy rather than disc for example. There is no reason I should ever hit 700k dps on big AOE as a holy priest when my disc struggles to get much over 200k.

[@beastleemain]

Yea I’m loving holy priest atm

[@Taylors1389]

@@beastleemain I enjoy holy at the moment pretty much just for the damage and having serenity. But fights like Halls third boss and nokhud storm boss, any time there is long tantrum damage really.. it just feels like healing on a wow classic healer with a shit load of haste.

[@StateOfTheInitiative]

I only lightning bolt after lava burst XP. Sorry I dont make the rules.

[@perkulant4629]

Yeah sad times as disc Vs holy. Good group means holy is just better.

[@beastleemain]

@@Taylors1389 hell yea halls third boss LOL f that thing! Originally when I started priest in WOD I played disc and I loved it. Also loved disc on a priv wotlk serv. Been holy a long time now though

[@apotheonffxiv]

Should healers be speccing into maximizing dps output at a loss of healing? no Should a healer contribute at least some damage through the run? yes, its better than not doing anything and feeling crap when no heals are needed. Its a lot better than classic era healing where you just topped people off and couldn't do more due to mana management.

[@AutomaticJak]

100%

[@StoicEver]

Agree, good take.

[@sdowncast8871]

disagree. I love it when no healing is needed and im just being taxied through a +20, i can watch netflix meanwhile. But i generally dot really like m+, i jsut do it for the gear to raid so..

[@herbeste]

Why shouldn't I be able to spec into more damage if I can make it work and provide more damage for my group?

[@moldgrim1]

I agree, but as a rdruid in cat form I am always on edge, in a bad way, knowing I'll have to wait a gcd to react to someone taking random dmg.

[@stephaniet1162]

Im fine with healers doing dps ... however, its needs to be a very very VERY simple "rotation". 2-3 buttons MAX. We already have a ton of buttons, we dont need to add 4 or 5 dps buttons as well.

[@zak8991]

You could make simple macros that cast a damage spell on enemies and a healing spell on allies, and even make it a mouseover. Removes a lot of keybinds that you otherwise would have. For me personally even tho i main healer, i enjoy having a variety of damage abilities that i can weave in depending on AoE/ST. I dont want to have a damage rotation of a BM hunter xD It's why i enjoy dpsing as resto druid

[@Hytos]

As someone who played a ton of ff14 as a healer, I don't agree. The last couple expansions for 14 have pared down healer dps to where all of the healer dps rotations are 2-3 buttons (1 dot, 1 filler casted spell, 1 aoe). Healing in ff14 is a lot more about minimizing heals cast and maximizing dps, and with a 2 button rotation it gets incredibly dull quickly. I think WoW should probably prune some of the button bloat that's going on, but making the dps rotation dull makes the classes less fun to play when healing isn't as intensive.

[@MrCarlWax]

As someone with 5k hours in FFXIV. You have no idea how good you have it as a healer main in WoW

[@warlyx7653]

@@Hytos ffxiv barely has rot dmg (even then u have ways to deal with Aoe heal +regen/ward and move on) , is all about spikes that get healed with a CD , outside ppl getting hit by mechanics

[@Triselinia]

As others have already said, no it should not be simple and the game is already simplified way too much especially in DF. I'm actually considering stopping healing/role switching in general now cause of these last round of Disc priest changes. Completely dumbed down the spec and removed the other buttons we had, it irks me so much that people think we need to make the game easier. FF14 is an example why people don't like having one spammable dps button and a DoT.

[@CsStoker]

How is holy doing more dps than disc? isn't this like completely how it shouldn't be? wasn't that the main niche of disc priest after the Legion rework? the healer/dps healer?

[@zak8991]

Yea that was the idea, until the season 3 rework for holy which made your chastise proc embryal blaze. Instead of it just being a flat 45 sec cd, now you can make it a 3 second cd with apotheosis up lol. Pretty satisfying tho

[@RalphEvangelista]

Now i really want a healer roundtable with Jak, Madskillz and like, JB. THAT would be some CONTENT

[@Zojah7]

I would love a podcast/roundtable with Jak, MadSkillzz and YumyTV!

[@KC-py5vq]

Replace Jak with growl

[@itstheyok]

urggh no. Madskillz has the personality of a cheese sandwich

[@shamehameha537]

DPS on a healer is 3rd priority at best. Healing is always number 1 with utility, CC, stops, dispels, affixes etc always being my number 2 focus in a M+ pug. After watching a Blood DK do 318k HPS overall to my 104k as a Resto Shaman, I agree healing could do with some tuning. I would of like to see more HPS from me on the meters so I actually felt needed as a healer but at the same time it was nice and easy to spot heal while focusing on stops and CC and then throwing as much dps as I could as an afterthought. It was an easy key but I absolutely felt like more of a general support than a specialised healer.

[@117haseo3]

I'm inclined to agree now that the M+ timer is gone(which was the problem) outside of enrage timer mechanic bosses healers should be able to heal and throw up damage when they can when its reasonable. I play resto shaman and until the rework of healing rain I felt awful in M+ because my casts took so long.

[@AutomaticJak]

The m+ timer isn’t gone

[@WhallonJesse]

Dragonflight was the worst expansion to be a healer in dungeons. Totally felt like I was just helping the DPS play the game when they stood in bad. Combined with tanks being immortal and doing more healing than the healer....feels like trash. Then they made healing super weak but kept all the classes strong defensives, stuns ect, so players could effectively play around the game without a healer. Imagine trying to get tanks in a world where players used their skills to avoid needing one....

[@strouss3888]

I 100% agree. Id rather tanks go back to crafty mitigation. Leave the healing to the healers

[@Rattja]

@@strouss3888 Fully agree on that. I miss the healer/tank dynamic, and wish it could go more back to tank healing for the most part, and then healing dps toned down a lot. Tanks should mitigate, healers should heal and dps should do damage.

[@monkeyjames9285]

Blood dk vengeance dh can be outlier cause not got lot damage mitigation blood dk got death strike few oh sh but most part damage mitigation is self healing. Other tank I can agree with warrior so pissed off healer basically useless cause healing wounds being so pissed. Bear tanks monk can't say much not got enough experience I reactly played in dragonflight old designs so can't say. Think clear of tank good at this let blood dk vengeance dh be self healing tanks warrior lot damage reductions pally well pally kinda have oh sh button but have play pally tank can't say. But if just say this good at this or gimmick this tank separate what good at think been fine feel dragonflight healer kinda useless cause we can put heal them only time useful if we f up Badly quickly press sh button feel shouldn't like that. Don't wrong like feeling unstoppable brute beating on but level unstoppable vs godhood at sec I say in godhood need be nerfed but so healer actually feel useful

[@ZettaiRyouiki775]

I think that the appelation of "healer" should have been abandoned in favor of "support" starting MoP, if the "healer" can at some point contribute in a better way by attacking without the group facing a death and that mana management is good enough, so there is no reason not to take advantage of it, killing a group faster mean less overall damage taken.

[@Lofibanshee]

Thank you so much for this video. You're saying this from the viewpoint of someone who does top keys is ridiculously helpful to this narrative. You're also providing a view that isn't extremism, people think it's only focus on healing or only focus on damage and you saying it's a shifting scale isn't going to get as much hype as one with extremist takes is what the truth is.

[@89Brandon08]

There's a lot of variables that go into healer damage. If you're in an organized grp, sure healer damage can be focused on. But on a pug level, it's too uncertain. Are the homies hitting their buttons? Are they dying to mechanics? Is it Tyrannical? Because more often than not, I need every damn GCD I can get my hands on. Throwing SW:P and a Holy shock up is relatively low impact, but does it even make a difference? Popping my CDs to focus on damage is a bit different. 99% of the time, keys won't get bricked because of healer damage (or lack thereof)

[@cake7134]

I think it's been interesting to feel the difference between Shadowlands and Dragonflight healing. And part of the reason I think healer damage hasn't been as much of a focus this expansion is at least partially due to timers being more lenient.

[@FishsMusicChannel]

My problem is that if they are gonna make my holy priest dps rotation mind-meltingly boring, stop making me do it in keys. Give me more buttons and a fun rotation, or put the heal checks back in!

[@KC-py5vq]

Hell no, I don't want even more buttons for a fucking dps rotation

[@regularfern]

My issue was always that some healers do insane damage, and others do about nothing. And it’s usually from some borrowed power or trinket synergy+ broken abilities.

[@MrPbhuh]

Healer damage doesn't matter, but it says a lot that people are swapping a resto druid to balance for half the dungeon... That seems to imply that healer damage is too low. Not to mention that in season 1 resto shaman could get great damage. In season 2 holy pally was great on damage, until the constant nerfs and season 3 disc priest damage got nerfed before it went live even though they werent doing much more damage than what was reasonable. Healers should be closer to 75% of overall damage of a tank. Right now its quite below it.

[@SYL3NZR]

healing is numbers - you already take all the mandatory/good talents and then you usually got like 3-6 points leftover for fluff, if you can meet the healing checks without the fluff healing talents you could put them into damage, since overhealing does literally nothing beneficial but damage is ALWAYS good like the only healing talents you can take past the good ones are so incredibly minor most of the time, that you are basically trolling if you take them unless you do world first keys which isn't applicable here

[@WoWUndad]

Interesting discussion on a healer's role if you have a good enough group that allows you free time🤔 I agree a smite healer playstyle shouldn't be forced but havimg free gcds should reinifornce some type of skill expression to contribute, not just sitting around like wotlk tree form. Maybe during your free gcds you should have a support spell like ebon might??? For whatever reason, wow has been slow on the development of support but aug was a start. I get that its toxic if that support becomes mandatory but there should be a balance of what a healer provides and rewards when playing well

[@alexanderearl6860]

I think it’s something healers should do, and should heal or provide utility when they do, but only a little amount. And only in situations where it’s safe, damage spikes have been dealt with and in this time also you could argue a healer should for certain mechanics or stages to provide damage or focus on dispelling. I would personally like this as part of planning and the role. I think the classes just need tuning around this, and to be introduced gradually over an expansion so it’s not expected instantly. There is a clear lack of healers, and I think this is the issue. Clear focus on what the role is, what is expected, and what to look out for in the ui in regards to dispels, and harmful mechanics.

[@Schrogs]

Did the devs ever consider I chose healer because I didn’t want to roll dps?

[@burgers5675]

I know it'd probably feel weird but I feel like blizzard should focus much more of the damage players take into dots. That way they can actually hit players without instantly killing them when they don't have a CD up and therefore heals can actually spend more time healing and be rewarded for being able to pump hps

[@Aea-Mongol]

if you can be another dps the same time you do the healer job why not?

[@sorincascaval8571]

Hi what elviui do you use is nice

[@AutomaticJak]

In the description!

[@jd3036]

I think DPS as a healer should matter somewhat, my issue is just that i weekly get yelled and flamed at for doing low dps, by people who die to frontals, stand in fire, dont move with chains in Nelth because its a dps loss etc. It's crazy how some +8 pugs feel like a 14, and some feel like a 2. It really depends mostly on utility, dps'ing should be a valuable, but secondary feature.

[@hubbasadventures9168]

I love that there are dungeons that require us to think about how we want to talent, and gear up. This was my complaint about the old talent tree style, where there was little meaningful flexibility. Now, however, we can increase damage as needed, or heals as needed though talent and gear changes. The best of both worlds. I admit that in pug groups, I don't do much dps for the first couple of pulls simply because I am trying to ID who the squishy toons are going to be, and how good the tank is. After that, I add as much dps as I can.

[@PeterTeehan]

furthermore, a lot of mobs are aoe. Whats important with that is, there is not an aoe cap anymore and now with Holy Nova being instant cast HN is overlooked a lot.

[@johnlinks]

I think it would be true if MW and HPal were not pitiful at dps lol

[@AutomaticJak]

Lol true. They kinda gave up on balancing healer dps this xpac

[@AppHangout]

I like to get Keystone hero each season with a different healer. Season 3 was druid and season 4 is MW. The damage difference is humongous...

[@CrippsyS]

Hpal* MW dps is great lol. I’m doing between 150k-240k in my keys this season. Around 14 key level

[@AppHangout]

@@CrippsyS are you just doing the normal rotation or is there an item giving you a significant increase? I've heard the mirror image trinket is crazy but I haven't pulled it yet.

[@ПавелПущаев-л8ю]

Fyrak 100% 2nd u can go dps trinket and do dps like 150+ But pala sucks, because u need to fight to heal, but your heal it is casting, and u are caster in melee zone ​@@AppHangout

[@drohgoh4305]

The seasons of m+ have changed soooo much, from season to season in recent years. you had what I like to call “passenger” healer seasons, where “yup healer dmg absolutely mattered” because like u said in this video, there’s NOTHING TO HEAL. end of shadowlands hpriest being basically just an augment the dps spec and do big dmg, and season 3 dragonflight with almost no healing checks again. But now in season 4 dragonflight, there’s a decent healing check in some way in each key aside from really brackenhide, you’d definitely say that you would prefer the healer to just go as full into healing and making sure your team is alive as possible. As I’ve seen plenty of situations even at the highest level of a healer running dps talents and dps trinkets at the cost of having deaths throughout the run, deaths that cost 30+ seconds each just because u wanna save 10-15 second with your “big D healer damage” haha. Classic. Good video covering it Jak I couldn’t agree more. Especially the part where u explain in certain key ranges a healer should just heal but then u get in organized groups and it seems “less healing” is needed the higher u go because basically if something goes through, someone just dies anyways, so just dps.

[@The0nlyy]

In my opinion, there is 0% reason to heal unless your group has the key level on farm. If you’re struggling to clear an 8 or 10, then focus on keeping the team up. However if you’re farming 6s for crests, by all means contribute to damage instead of standing idle.

[@contactvine]

Well, after 46 runs for my AV trinket I don't mind helping with dps as a disc healer.

[@shawill2007]

If anything is tuned in a way that healer damage is what makes or breaks the run its a tuning issue. Healer damage should just be bonus damage and nothing more. it shouldn't matter

[@FranciszekWolc]

Every bit damage matters when the clock is ticking.

[@Mikethatguy7]

The healer population will continue to fall if the expectation is to heal and do damage. Usually healers roll healer to… heal!

[@Moaningbird]

Except their were more healers in SL where healers damage was more important... Healer's fall in DF is because healing is tough and healers are crying babies. "I want to heal only..." proceeds to ff mental vs 3rd boss of HOI were you have to spend every GCD on healing.

[@sps3r654]

Join the Fistweaver gang.

[@Stevie320]

Healers will always be doing damage though. If no one's damaged, then you're just trolling by not dealing damage. Only way to force healing is by having constant unavoidable aoe damage, and then you'd really see the healer pop decline.

[@Wellshem]

If damage is funny it's okay like mistweaver, discipline or prevoker

[@Mikethatguy7]

@@Stevie320 hard disagree. If healers are healing because they like to heal, I can’t imagine doing more healing is going to make them not want to… heal

[@cyridianwinkler7798]

As someone who's played a healer since vanilla I can see why a healer should dps. But it should never be a requirement. The same goes for tanks trying to be dps.

[@iZenomWoW]

I think that the druid transforming into a cat, making bleeds and contributing to the dps, is thus the most fun and balanced healer and also in tww they remove the CD to change quickly. The RDruid WildStalker will be the most complete in the next expansion

[@dewcodered88]

First off, love your content man. Keep up the good work. Second off, I really do want more healing checks but ONLY if Blizz is reactive to the relative power level all the healers have. Doing some of those dungeons on Prevoker or Hpal is an actual nightmare vs when playing my MW monk or Rdruid when I am singing payphone.

[@FooX917]

i want to heal and do some dps on the side. Not be expected to pump dps while keeping people alive. Ruins the fun of healing for me and i just don't play with anyone but friends to avoid such situations. always felt like an 80/20 was a good ratio. 80 being your main role, 20 being extra fluff.

[@JoshuaM141]

A healer dealing DMG in M+ really became relevant in Shadowlands when Pally Healers started dealing the same DPS as normal DPS and Disc Priest integrated the Kyrian Burst to their rotation. From then on, we have been in a weird limbo. Dealing respectable DMG as a healer means you time M+ way easier, but also risks the party more unless you know what you are doing. This rises the ceiling of all classes... but makes some players uncomfortable if you make them push DPS buttons. But if things die faster they also deal less damage. Yet, not all healers have the same ease when dealing AOE dmg and it limits the design of some. Disc Priest, which literally heals through their DMG, struggles to deal the DMG Holy does. I do not mind being pushed to do DPS or making healer DPS irrelevant, as long as it consistently the same for all healers.

[@warlyx7653]

disci priest , Mw monk , and Paladin dps while healing because thats how the spec heals , for Shaman/druid/Holy priest and Prevoker , u need to use dmg spells instead of heals , and sometimes is hard to do so , Holy priest at least has a "rotation" if speced for it , those instant aoe holy fires are good on m+, Shaman casting lava burst doenst feel that good , Druid going chicken or catweaving is the hardest of all them even with fluidform, but doable. I have seen Resto druids putting some numbers .

[@billflynn9962]

just delete aug evoker and make healers more of a healer/support role..

[@StoicEver]

I think having at least a bit of damage on healers helps to not have dungeons be boring when damage is low. I play Holy Paladin and it would just be nice to do comparable damage to other healers which I think would be simple to implement. For keys up to 10 at least I don't think healer damage is that big a deal since there is so much time to clear a key over the last two seasons. I can't really speak to any keys above that as I'm no interested in that at my level of play.

[@kailback1093]

I think healing and dpsing at the same time is fun, however what isnt fun is when someone gets hit by a spell and drops to 20% hp, healing that isnt fun. I love the idea that i can optimize my healing and try to incorporate dps into that rotation.

[@itsButeii]

Especially in an augmentation meta, healers doing damage will be important.

[@technicolorsoultheory3924]

Caster mobs would be more fun if they were not tuned in only two ways. 1. always hit the target with aggro for insane buster damage. or 2. never hit aggro target for literal oneshot damage. I would like caster mobs a lot more if the damage was smoothed out and their frost bolt cast for instance was always random but did manageable damage to make healing possible. I wonder how much they will change mob types and ai when blizz nerfs stops and defensives.

[@simcosports2584]

Personally, I find it absolutely bonkers that some healers get easy heals, and an easy path to propping up, while some have to jump thru hoops to make their heals stronger, just to stay afloat. Holy Paladin, specifically. What should be a fun class has had a rollercoaster of an expansion. Its crazy that they're in a worse spot now then at the beginning of the expansion.

[@makoslushie9777]

Why do we need healers doing damage? I don't believe that should be a thing, especially in higher content. The content should be balanced around 3 DPS, not counting in the healer DPS. There should be consistent healer checks and rot damage that requires healer focus. I main tank as VDH for my static and I also MW. There are plenty of times that my group dies or even I die because the healer is trying to damage or parse as a healer. This is very annoying. Healers should heal. If there's no damage going out, too bad. Just jump around and prepare for healing. Do higher content that requires more healing.

[@Whimsykiller]

Dont join my keys please

[@codyrompalo9661]

I don’t mind damaging as a healer, what I’m tired of is the dpsing to heal taking over more and more healing specs.

[@mageman483]

I think healer dps being pushed more is dumb - at the top .1% yeah I get it. But most healers want to heal, not dps. Or they would play a dps. Now I do think you should have the option to dps, that is something that could separate casual players from skilled players. How well that healer can cycle in dps/cc/stops during keys and such.

[@kind2rethink]

u should have the option t dps? well u already have that you could stand there doing absolutly nothing until something happens. but honestly healers like that are trash and im a main healer why would anyone bring a player into a m+ that does just the bare minimum? its okay in low keys to ölay with those sleepwalkers but on higher keys nope mate😂 even if they do just like 25k overall dps its still saves time.

[@attinger117]

I think healers and tanks should deal roughly 70% of the dps that damage dealers do. We need more tanks and healers playing, and dealing damage as those roles is FUN. Obviously I’m not saying healing shouldn’t be needed or then priority.

[@jbwow5561]

My man Jak coming spitting fire again! I am sick of being the tank and being in charge of fully locking down pulls! Lets put some stuff back into group play so we can get some more diversity in comp! That doesnt mean nerf tanks but maybe do something so 1 tank cant be responsible for every kick/stun/stop for 30 seconds!

[@amecoeur]

if im doing 10% of a normal dps then it shouldnt matter, if you want me to do dps make it meaningful enough for me to care like ffxiv

[@Sly_rim]

He meant 10% of the total group dps

[@jacoblionel4829]

10% overall is I'm either focused or I'm giving my cat kisses on their little heads.

[@CoffeeBeerHeals]

I’ve been playing m+ since it was first released and have been playing at a relatively high level since s3/4 of bfa. The biggest thing Ive noticed throughout the seasons is that damage is usually relatively even across the board in most of the well balanced seasons but the biggest factor in meta is damage profile over total output. A resto shaman spamming chain lightning in brackenhide isn’t that valuable but the rsham hitting the totem on the last boss with stormkeeper and LvB is extremely valuable.

[@Achtland44]

spamming healing 24/7 for no reason means you will have no mana and cd's in key moments so you troll the key 2x more by doing 0 dmg then not having healing power

[@Zugzugfloor]

So many healers hate doing damage, but if they designed it to healers had to heal the entire time and couldn't do damage, every dungeon would be the 3rd boss of halls just constant insane damage. No one wants that.

[@beastleemain]

Doing both is a part of what I enjoy about healing. I don’t like playing dps but I did level Aug evoker recently. I loved bard in FFXI. I play heals in all games. Holy priest main btw

[@richardburke9]

Dragonflight dungeons have taken way too much from healer role. Tank Barely needs healing, Dungeons have very few Required healer moments. Healers do less 200k DPS while tanks and dps are pulling 400-600k dps. Either blizzard needs to make healing more relevant through entire expansion or they need to make healer dps more interesting. Provide a rotation for active DPS and provide buttons for a bit passive dps. I would rather see them put healers in a better state on healing side but that is going to require quite a bit of work. if blizzard wants to put healers back to their roots then I believe following actions need to occur: Solution to class buffs (Currently we have no agency over the Meta healer because its picked around missing class buffs and Dps/Tank comp components. I.e. Healing doesn't matter), Defensives Pruned Across all Classes, Health bars significantly buffed, Time to full heal slowed down significantly, Create Better mob profiles that encourage Efficient healing, Make mana a resource again. Prune dungeons of Stopable Spells so that unorganized groups and organized groups have similar damage patterns. Provide more interesting damage profiles for healers to solve. Make it so healing cant swap roles outside of dungeons (that gameplay is awful). The goal should be healers need to heal 70-80% of time. If blizzard wants to leave healers in this sudo dps state with minimal healing then they need to do the following things listed. Provide all healers Passive damage such as Dots, Consecrate so they can do 40% of their max damage while healing. They also need to provide an active rotation for non healing moments that is slightly easier then their dps counter parts (this could be achieved through talents that provide large active damage increases). They need to make active damage rotation more interesting for all healers, I look at resto druid with catform with 4-5 dots to actively maintain. I would love to see healers be able to pick their utility through talent i.e. Battlerez, Bloodlust, Class buffs?? Smile. Overall healers should be able to compete with tanks on pulls that require very minimum healing. The goal should be healers heal 40% to 50% of time. I personally would rather see the healer gameplay return to 80% healing and 20% dps while focusing on managing mana. I do think whichever way blizzard leans they have to do something about Class buffs, stops, Defensives andMob damage profiles. If they choose to do nothing then I do believe alot people will swap off healer role next expansion. I know I'm currently considering abandoning healer if the state of healers isnt drastically improved for M+ with the war within. love to hear others thoughts please share if your dps player or healer.

[@bella_trixx6589]

I for one, am tired af of VDH.

[@Kozmowow]

healer contributes like 5% of key dmg, depending on which healer your playing

[@Impressionwow]

You’re bad at math

[@wolftailxx]

I always main a hybrid cause I like to play damage and healing. Damage on a healer is annoying and never will be impressive

[@codycurtin2295]

Im a healer main since wotlk and i love dealing damage. Healing by itself, damage by itself is so boring. The new dynamic makes it like playing a whole different game. I can carry a whole party as mistweaver i love the game rn

[@bighouse581]

If they want me to do damage you have to use your defensives/kicks and dodge mechanics. You do that and im coming for the tanks parses

[@mikevaleriano9557]

Give healers more things to dispel and the responsibilities of what augmentation was supposed to be. Done. Healers HAVING to do damage pushed a lot of people away from the role. It's stupid.

[@LNitrogen]

dispels are worse, you wanna give every dungeon the fyrakk treatment and add dispels you will see 0 healers

[@Kantstop01]

Have you played healer? Who tf wants more dispels? Lmao

[@jacoblucarelli3028]

Yeah this is an awful take. Afflicted actively makes me play the game less as a healer, adding more dispels would probably just make me quit.

[@candymoon2876]

Cringe, I play solo and I don't want to struggle my brain more than it needed. Remember, healers have to heal, if they want they can do 0 damage at all and they will be god damn right. I wonder why nobody wants dd to tank from time to time or doing some healing(if class is capable)? It`s unfair for healers.

[@gabber_]

it's so disheartening when you try to do your best in a key as HPal and end up doing 60-70k overall at best then jump on a dps alt and have a random resto shaman end up on 200k overall dps on the same +10 key. I dont have Tome, but even if i remove the 30k the Tome gives him, it's still a 100k difference. Then, my Holy priest does 100k regularly in +10s. This expansion SUCKED for keys, healing and dmg wise, but the raids were fun. Ready to let this exp go, and not very hyped for the next if i'm truly honest

[@Askfornate]

Madskheals/z since (Holy Priest) 2007. I thought I got called out on Twitter for complaining about sucking at DPS, lol.

[@Astral-Projector2389]

Please, don't ever. EVER listen to a dps, especially if they've never healed and understand the frustration. The opinion they have holds little to ZERO value. Literally. They should just add healing spells to DPS and force them to help out, lets see how long this game survives haha :D

[@kyriakosk21]

Keep up the good work! \o/

[@AutomaticJak]

Thanks so much!

[@v3n1t0]

Just make overhealing do dmg to enemies problem solved back to mana issues simple and ez

[@richardj1319]

I think defensive CDs for all classes should be nerfed and healers should be reverted back to being proper healers again, with their damage nerfed in group play.

[@constelus89]

Healers need to go back to healing main focus and make CDs very powerful for support and keeping party alive during major abilities from bosses/mini bosses. Reduce tank healing and dps defensives. That would make healing fun for me imo. able to heal and support without having to mash smite/holy fire holy nova. Disc is already annoying enough not having consistent reactive healing options which messes up your entire rotation if someone stands in crap. The “.1%” are the worst kind of players in the community they create this toxic environment and now it’s hard to get out of.

[@Kazairith]

making healers do dps as well is stupid and i wish it went back to being a healer that did other things as well especially in pugs like holy shit ppl are dumb in pugs

[@driiifter]

I think we are in the age of insecurity. People are so insecure now that they feel bad if they stand still in a dungeon. I blame it on American society in general, people are afraid to stand still at their job too or be fired/cancelled.

[@kind2rethink]

nope😂 its mythic plus and has a timer so by just standing there you dont really contribute much to the key.. its okay in low keys where the absolut majority of people plays according to data.. even if most people claim to do high key in the comments😂 Look things can go bad in high key people die and timer gets tight fast if you as a healer just stand around like a target dummy you amplify those mistakes people make because of your 0 dps by atleast doing some dps you have an impact on the timer and also downplay some mistakes that will happen. and its not that little of impact people tend to belive

[@Krustenkuh]

I think bringing more unavoidable damage into the game and having healer damage be a relatively small amount of the overall group damage is a step in the right direction to stop the healer meta from focusing too much on doing damage. The problem however is when the unavoidable damage comes in huge (one shot) bursts and dealing with the incoming damage is no longer within the healers control and you just have to pray (especially in pugs) your party uses their defensives and mob shutdowns correctly. IMO Khajin is a great example for an encounter that makes you as a healer feel important and optimizing your healing feel rewarding. I think Blizz should overall reduce the number of one shots, increase the number of damage over time effects and reduce the amount of shutdowns and defensives in the game (looking at you VDH and Mages).

[@PregnantOrc]

Healer damage should roughly match DPS or tank healing. Sometimes mechanics force everyone to focus on one roles jobb be it quickly topping up the teams healthpools between bursts or adds that require full group focus on killing them etc.

[@Tallen931]

As long as it doesn't go back to SL in terms of healer DPS/playstyle I am happy. I want more consistent/rot damage and healer checks (3rd boss in halls is my fav boss to heal this exp) to heal but don't mind DPSing during down time/important burn phases.

[@balasavenedintulashabalbeoriwe]

I hate cc being important in m+

[@93emilio1337]

Doing dmg as disc or mistweaver feels rewarding, i dont feel it on my other healers... Numbers are impressive single target on my druid but would love some small harmony with dmg doing some small amount of healing and higher dmg contributes to the small healing. Some people dont like it but for me its the sort of winner solution for me ofc.

[@shadowbanned3044]

The damage of the healers should be irrelevant. End of topic.

[@Gumblethebear]

Dps and even tank damage has so outscaled what healers can do right now that a healer could ignore damage and it would barely make a difference

[@kileNoe]

I dont mind doing damage as a healer i like the hybrid aspect of it. I would like them to do something about the scale of the damage. Kind if a newer healer tho, and newerr to mythic plus so my timing for my defensives is almost non existant haha. Gota imporrove on that, but it sucks when everyone else doesnt know too

[@kyriakosk21]

Agree 100% Thumbs up. I hope this video gets to the ppl responsible designing dungeons.

[@spartanvs]

So, different situations: 1) If healing is easy, players are bored. 2) If healing is too exigent with constant healing needed, healing is "unconfortable" for players. 3) So Blizz solution is to have negligible constant pressure on healers, but with a lot of one shot. One shot is also important when players have so many defensives. So, the idea that one shots makes healing difficult, but only on short time intervals, while the rest of the time can calmly DPS. This way healers feel impactful but there is no this "uncomfortable constant stress". Besides, one shot helps to make player run out of defensives, which is.... good. I understand why the blizz tendency is 3), but I dont think is going to work. Healer funny rotation, synergies, passives, talents..all are related to healing. DPS rotation of a healer is quite boring. I would say there are two posibilities: A) Implement situation 2. If a player doesnt like to be constantly playing with the healing rotation, as a DPS with damage rotation, that player doesnt like to play healer. This is the right direction in my opinion. Prune some defensives of the DPS also to avoid even more one shots damage that a healer cannot control. B) Continue with the tendency of situation 3), but then get rid of pure healer as it was the whole WoW life and redesign them all as support DPS, something like discipline priest, but doing more DPS. I love pure healing and lifes constantly going down, so I dont like this option, but if WoW players doesnt want any kind of healing stress, is the right way.

[@jeromenancyfr]

Solution 2 is almost impossible to put in place, unless they make all the healers incredibly similar If a healer is even 10% better than another in a situation, either you align with the weakest, and the best have time to spare, or you align with the best, and it become unplayable for the worst one. And it stacks with gear choices, gear level, group strategy, procs, player skill... On each of this topics, how much can we deviate from a *perfect* play to keep it challenging without being impossible?

[@The_Fictionist]

Can we please go back to a world where in all forms of content the expectation is that I do 0 DPS as a healer? Please? I’ll never heal while people expect me to do both jobs.

[@poinstaar7029]

I would love at least one spec that is entry level healer. Easy to play, and effectively heal. We don’t need every ability to synergize. Give us one spammable hot, one high cost fast heal, and one big efficient heal, and then aoe versions of each of those. Easy to understand, easy to play, would mean more people giving healer role a shot

[@myv112]

Why dps dont tank while dps ? It’s not their role PERIOD !

[@kind2rethink]

lame argument period😂 so what you do if nothing is to heal? playing with your tiny wiener?😂 why bring a healer tho just bring a 2nd pala tank than he does dmg is tanky and can offheal really good when specced so no need for healers like you in below 10's😂😂

[@Jztyle]

Stack versatility and do damage

[@iankosel]

Theun ruined healing

[@AutomaticJak]

he really did...

[@bidu2331324]

I've had more fun healing low gear cata heroics than I've had healing on retail in YEARS and I never pressed a single damage global the entire time. Retail healers have Stockholm syndrome.

[@5132kurt]

I will stand on this hill even if I’m by myself. If I’m playing a healer I shouldn’t be expected to dps. I’m there to heal not do damage.

[@C0rnvillain]

I’ve been playing a healer since December 2004, mainly holy priest. This season I’m having a lot of fun adding damage as a resto druid. Though I agree your MAIN job is focusing on healing and not worrying too much about damage, keep in mind there are fights here and there where the difference between a boss kill and a wipe might be your dots and an occasional cast of a damage spell. Though you definitely shouldn’t be harassed for not wanting to DPS if you aren’t doing high keys

[@Nesqiix]

your poor groups lol

[@p.holmes6873]

I'm here to heal, and if everyone can life on their own I just habe a fun time following the Real players along.

[@StephenKary]

So when there is no healing needed you go to the bathroom?

[@rawritstandy]

You should never be wasting global cooldowns. If healing isn't required then fill with dps. It's easy if you are using mouse over macros for your heals and just keep enemies targeted the whole run.

[@carlosbretado6757]

can you share your pi wa :D

[@cg22175]

Madskillz…lol

[@null926]

As a healer (holy priest) I don't like having to DPS at all. Having to heal, dispell, do the affixes, save my Chastise (and fear) for interrupt, is more then enough. But, dpsing as healer is important. So many times my dps saved us from having to take another AOE spell, or totem spawn, or boss mechanic. It really does make a difference. But I still hate having to do it. It just does not go along with healing for me. I'm playing demo warlock as my alt, and compared to healing is mega easy. You just do the mechanic and pump dps.

[@kooszondernaam]

They should make healers do more dmg. A lot more.