Autumn Budget 2024: What does the rail industry want to see?

[@Jim-h1w]

Green Signals you’ve done it again another great interview!

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Jim, that's great to hear!

[@AtlasBaudelaire]

I can see how passionate Darren is about this subject and I think in this day in age, that is incredibly refreshing.

[@GreenSignals]

You're absolutely right - Darren is very passionate about the railway and its supply chain.

[@robertwalsh1724]

Thanks!

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Bob, very much appreciated!

[@BenRattigan]

Great interview, I honestly could not agree more.

[@GreenSignals]

Thanks Ben, glad you enjoyed it.

[@ricktownend9144]

Thank you so much for doing this interview - great to hear Darren's point of view, and to hear the two of you having an intelligent conversation about the issues. I think that at least part of the Treasury negative attitude to rail is the frequently quoted statistic that only 8% of UK travel is by rail. May I make two suggestions: (1) Someone (maybe Green Signals? - maybe RIA?) should debunk this by calculating travel by rail as a percentage of travel which is possible by rail (e.g. not anywhere from Launceston, Bude, Wadebridge. Westerham, Saffron Walden etc.) - in particular, look at the percentage where the rail offer is really good. (2) Might it be sensible to create an 'integrated public transport' Supply-chain lobby by including bus/coach manufacturers and ancillary businesses - e.g. suppliers of battery/hydrogen technology, and electric and diesel engines/parts. At a stroke you would at least double that 8% in the Treasury's mind. I often think that rail industry people themselves view that statistic from the wrong end of the telescope; if 80%+ of travel is not at present by rail or bus, that's one hell of a market potential - you just have to make those journeys possible and practicable by public transport (hint - you won't do this without some kind of integration), and then make them BETTER than by car. While there are some people wedded to their car, cars are neither cheap nor hassle-free to buy, learn to drive, fuel, maintain, tax, insure etc.. Rail and bus managers perhaps need to look at what they are doing wrong to let this massive segment of the market go unserviced ...

[@SWRural-fk2ub]

Don't forget that most journeys are a very short distance so they never would be suitable to rail so that 8% is a nonsense from the start. You don't take a train to fetch a bottle of milk or pick up the kids from school.

[@SWRural-fk2ub]

I think the employment in manufacturing is the strongest plea here to make to a Labour Government. I don't think many ministers are that enthusiastic about rail (except their own journeys to and from London) and civil servants are clearly actually antagonistic to rail over the last decades.

[@boxingfan2281]

I fully agree with Darren that the railway is very easy to plan for. I have been suggesting a GIS Based map based on Data that shows rolling stock replacement, route immunization, ETCS plans and Electrification. It would not be difficult to produce a series of simple date stamped maps that show what needs to done at the appropriate time. I am very much enjoying this channel and glad I found it recently. And I should add to that battery tech trains are developing at such a rate that any data based Model would likely best updated every year to make sure its correct.

[@Carlos-im3hn]

Yes, but not so easy. The UK roadways are also being expanded and upgraded at the same time. For example, on EWR the year 2030 MVL line upgrade (up to 80mph, not even to 100mph operation) and getting the EWR last stage commitment from Bedford to Cambridge is made complex by the new roadway MK to Cambridge A428 Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet project opening 2027. There is a competition between roadway and rail investment and that makes it all complex. Rail can win on economics and there remains an uphill battle of whits and billions to finance.

[@andrewhotston983]

​@@Carlos-im3hnRail cannot win on economics!!!

[@allanmorton6022]

Very interesting topics, agree that constant planned investment over the long term is badly needed. How to get to this nirvana with today's politicians is the challenge.

[@IBLRG]

Hopefully more money for local electrification schemes. There also needs to be money diverted or available to tackle the elephant in the room which is accessibility at railway stations.

[@GreenSignals]

Agreed - one can only hope that electrification - a steady 'beat' of x km per annum - is something we get close to very soon.

[@anthonypowell5665]

​@GreenSignals Bristol TM and Swansea need wiring asap especially with euro 2028 coming up

[@andrewhotston983]

​@@anthonypowell5665The phrase "as soon as possible" has a special meaning in the UK rail industry, because obvious projects like OHLE to Bristol TM have proved to be actually impossible. I'm thinking of doing a KZbin video called "Red Signals" to document the dire state of rail in the UK.

[@johnwood2448]

The cost over runs on Network Rail's GWML electrification were horrendous so the Treasury quite rightly instructed the DfT to put a pause on this. Guess there is a similar story of cost over runs on Stage 1 of HS2. Think if it wishes to be taken seriously the railway should employ more competent people who can deliver projects on time and on budget. Not the British was with infrastructure or public sector capital investment but pouring money into an incompetent organisation when we have huge problems with the National Debt and public finances won't just end in tears it will take such money as is available away from more pressing needs. Not just us Germany has had cost over run problems with Berlin's new International Airport and the rebuilding of Stuttgart Station and in the US California's HS1 is further over budget than it's English Counterpart. The recent extensions to the New York Subway System have also had greater cost over runs than Crossrail.

[@jimmillington8299]

With Labour's Transport Secretary describing the project management and delivery of the biggest investment in rail in living memory as 'dire', I think those in and around GB rail need to be realistic about what rail will get, and frankly, realistic also about what rail deserves.... Revenue is still down 25% relative to pre-pandemic forecasts, with work-related travel that links rail to economic growth particularly badly hit. And long overdue productivity improvements are still awaited after doling out 15% 'no strings' pay rises to drivers already on at least £60k pa. Get real people! Try to lose the 'we deserve' mentality and embrace rail getting efficient and customer-focused, after 15 years of stagnation, and waste, led by HS2 and ('stop the job') Network Rail.

[@andrewhotston983]

Every £1 spent on rail generates £2.50?????? If you believe that, you'll believe absolutely anything!

[@thesudricmerman3318]

Really hoping that northern rail transpennine express and cross country can final order some new teqin as those 3 need new new stock to replace br era stock or increase capacity on there busyer routes

[@berniethebolt3007]

What I want to see is: A comprehensive re-nationalisation of the entire UK network (with no compensation for private companies - they are simply sacked). A huge development and upgrade programme (new lines, new stations, new trains), returning network traffic to pre-Beecham levels. An 80-90% cut in rail fares (with no train journey in the UK to ever exceed £25). A large-scale rail-worker recruitment programme. A return to station-based ticket offices. The result? An economy that works because of the transport infrastructure not in spite of it.

[@superted6960]

If you really want to shut off any overseas investment in the UK (or domestic investment for that matter) then by all means renationaĺise "without compensation". If the Govt did that (not that I think the courts would let them get away with it) they can do it with anything. Including your bank account if the fancy takes them. And remember, if you have a pension fund, you're probably a shareholder too, albeit indirectly

[@andrewhotston983]

If you want to see the result of your kind of thinking, go to Venezuela!

[@phaasch]

Nothing too unachievable, then? For some reason, this manifesto puts me in mind of the 1955 Modernisation Programme.

[@Adam-pk2te]

Interesting Interview, I rather like these shorter topical videos! I hold no hope for the budget, the Party which should be Keynesian refuses to implement Keynesianism, regarding why don't governments want to invest in Rail I think it's because of Neo Liberal Ideology but also we don't have a department for Transport we have a department for Cars pretending to be a transport department, ideally the Dft should be broken up, Furthermore the sociopaths in the treasury don't like railways and this country is generally car centric in its thinking anyway, in comparison to Europe.

[@andrewhotston983]

In what sense does allocating money to an industry which doesn't make a profit count as "investment"?

[@Adam-pk2te]

@@andrewhotston983 Because it pays off in other areas of the Economy, investing in education or Health doesn't 'make a profit' but healthy and well educated people can be more productive

[@andrewhotston983]

@@Adam-pk2te Oh yes? And how exactly do you quantify that? Answer - you can't. You might as well use astrology to justify rail investment. We've been told for decades that immigration is good for the economy, but now even the OBR admits every immigrant costs the economy many thousands of pounds. Never trust any figures used to justify a government policy.

[@Adam-pk2te]

@@andrewhotston983 Firstly, you can, the Southeast has a much more developed Rail Network and is thus a much richer part of the country, the Railways contribution to the Industrial Revolution, the growth of Swindon and Crewe all examples of how Rail helps the Economy Grow. You can also quantify it with the amount of people who are able to then travel for work because not everyone can or should drive. Bringing up immigration is a complete non sequitur and highly variable in its effects on the economy. Rail Investment isn't a 'government policy' it's a sensible policy that all Normal countries around the world engage in in fact not investing is policy

[@andrewhotston983]

​@@Adam-pk2teAre you seriously suggesting that the South East of England is because of its rail network????

[@stuartrobb673]

Money, just like all the other grifters, especially undeserving train drivers who like to steal the winter fuel allowance from pensioners. Every one of them should be utterly ashamed

[@melonusk234]

I am neither a train driver, nor a pensioner, but I'm curious as to how you think train drivers have stolen money from pensioners? Pensioners income is protected by the triple-lock that ensures they CANNOT find their relative income reducing over time due to inflationary pressures. The increase in wages awarded to train drivers (as it does to any relatively well paid job) will result not only in those peoples gross earnings similarly tracking inflation, but ALL of that extra income will be taxed and a good portion will end up back with the exchequer anyway.

[@macstar2010]

The best advice for you is to stop reading the Daily Mail and the Telegraph. Drivers hadn't had a payrise for up to 5 years and they got less overall than inflation over that time. Yes, they are well paid, but I'm pretty sure it's obvious that drivers pay and winter fuel allowance doesn't come from the same pot.

[@jimperkins2446]

get rid of the idiots who run the railway companies under the frachise system. no good nationalising the trains but still having the mupoet managers running the show.

[@andrewhotston983]

Like all lobbyists, this chap is full of wishful thinking. Meanwhile, in the real world, West Midlands Railways regularly cancels every single train on my local line due to staff shortages, despite the huge amount of money allocated to the pay rise for train drivers. Why should politicians risk their reputations by backing such a hopeless industry?

[@phaasch]

"Why should politicians risk their reputations" Surely this has to be satire?

[@andrewhotston983]

@@phaasch I admit it looks like satire, but every politician imagines they're going to be statesmanlike.

[@phaasch]

@@andrewhotston983 quite possibly, something which only helps to emphasise their level of delusion. Very difficult to be statesmanlike when you're grifting, particularly with today's levels of scrutiny.

[@grahampearce8145]

Andrew Gilligans comments in the Sunday Times will not help with anything! !

[@jimperkins2446]

the railway will get nothing othetbthan a high speed train to hell.....crewe.