TOBII vs TR5, What is better [My opinion] StarCitizen PVP

[@epicfailville4091]

I like to dabble in everything, but the biggest reason I use Tobii is for the gaze based targeting. I can select a specific target simply by looking at it, and I really like that.

[@BrocKelley]

So I have a nice webcam and trackir, is there any way I can do that with either of those? Can track-ir be good enough for that to where I can just select whatever target I'm looking at with that?

[@epicfailville4091]

@@BrocKelley not as far as I’m aware. I have no experience actually using trackir though, I just heavily researched both before buying Tobii.

[@Jacob-er1tt]

Trackir does not do eye tracking so this wouldn't be possible

[@billpii6314]

I bet you could just put your mouse pointer there yourself faster and more accuratly. Don't be blinded by gimmicks, is that ability really worth the 150.00 more than TIR? Because I know for a fact it doesn't work worth a damn.

[@GreasedScotsman]

You can disable the eye tracking portion of Tobii by setting the gaze to head tracking ratio slider in the Star Citizen tracking settings to zero for Gaze. I also dislike the eye tracking for flight, and was very happy I could turn it off and just have head tracking. Also, I've found cranking the tracking sensitivity in the SC settings helped make the Tobii feel more natural at matching my head movement speed. TrackIR is still faster and more responsive, but the Tobii doesn't feel "sluggish" with that tweak. Plus, even with eye tracking at zero, SC still allows you to do eye-based targeting, which is fantastic. I can turn to my right 90 degrees, look at a cluster of targets, and precisely pick out the one I want from it with a single target lock just by looking at it with my eyes, but my eyes darting around never alter the view itself... It's a nice feature, especially in huge org fights with tons of targets.

[@UndeadParrot]

I spent quite some time using Tobii Eye Tracker 5 but found a second hand TrackIR 5 recently and decided to try it out. For me, TR5 seems to keep its direction better, feels a bit more responsive. But also allows more freedom in placement of the sensor, which is the most important feature for me. So I ended up selling the Tobii and keeping TR5.

[@auburn8833]

I like the dive into more varied content outside of purely showing combat, thanks for that.

[@KoreyMacGill]

agreed. one of my favorite videos you did was where you explained how each of the settings impacts piloting and combat and you explained why you set what you set to what you set it to.... say that 5 times fast! anyways i'd love more videos that go into some of the hardware aspects, albeit you might of already done some.

[@MishaDark]

I was gonna say headtracking is still combat related but A1 did mention industry XD Im sure pops is having a much more immersive time with the tracking and stuff while he mines / hauls.. I might have to pick myself up a tracker of some kind.. I tried using a webcam to track my head but its kinda wonky and I gave up on it.

[@auburn8833]

@@MishaDark I mean if we're gonna be pedantic about it, 75% of SC is combat, as far as "complete" gameplay is concerned

[@MishaDark]

@@auburn8833 in Star Citizen: 75% of the time, it’s combat 100% of the time.

[@jswabes]

Nice summary of the differences! It's worth mentioning that there are cheaper implementations of TrackIR that achieve the same performance. I use one called DelanClip; a UK based business creating TrackIR kits (which use PS3 Eye camera + an IR headset clip) for pretty cheap (£65 for the wired one, £98 for wireless), that price difference along with the responsiveness made it a no brainer over Tobii for me.

[@Dr_Scarlett]

Do you know this one, or heard about it, @Avenger_One ?

[@mndeg]

what software does it use? the trackir one?

[@jswabes]

@@mndeg it uses OpenTrack

[@amadouderza5824]

I second that. Open Track with the DelanClip is amazing. I only started to have issues with the PS3 camera (after some time the signal in OpenTrack become full white). Strangely the day after it works. Not sure what it is exactly. Still for the price, a very good solution.

[@SultanDesync]

What anyone looking at head tracking has to remember is they are all just another set of control axis. It is not a natural intuitive system like vr. I'm sure almost anyone could adjust to tobbi's input latency for any play style.

[@Solo_01]

Thanks Avenger. I personally have both and prefer the Tobii primarily for its eye-tracking ability and not having to physically wear any device for it to work. I've been able to tune the eye-tracking down to the speed I need to perfectly pinpoint what I'm trying to see. Initially before tuning the eye tracking, it was a bit all over the place and too fast as the human eyes move so quickly and it was hard to focus, or your eyes would move your view too suddenly to almost a blur. I have my headtracking with Tobii tuned to be pretty fast as you described TR5. With the head moving just as fast as TR5 but being able to get that added pinpoint eye tracking. This allows me to naturally see with my eyes while tracking simultaneously with my head. I don't know how advantageous this would be in PVP but for me, in PVE and other run of the mill type of play in SC, it's wonderful and a necessity.

[@billpii6314]

What do you find useful about eye tracking that can't be done with just head tracking? You can turn Eye Tracking off and never miss it because without the overlay on, you would never even know it's there. IMO Eye Tracking is a gimmick to sell Head Trackers for more $$

[@brockoala2994]

You can turn off Tobii's eye tracking in SC by dragging the "Input Mix" bar all the way to the right side, also turn off the Gaze Based Target Selection, it will screw up your missile locks. Tobii has a very cool feature is that it lets you log into Window by scanning your face. And IR5 has a lot more games supporting it.

[@billpii6314]

lol so does windows its called Windows hello.

[@brockoala2994]

@billpii6314 It is actually Windows Hello that uses Tobii as the input device lol!

[@kal-nor]

I have both and I simply prefer the tobi. How easy it is to turn on and get straight into game is perfect for me. Plus I have a few issues moving my mouse so the tobi works nicely in windows with a ability to look at a point on screen and your mouse automatically appears there. Fantastic tool

[@mofous]

Incredible timing, I'm just in the process of researching this very topic and was lamenting that it would be nice see a comparison from a seasoned combat pilot / PvPer. Most of the other Tobii vs. TrackIR videos are more from a content creator / generalist SC player point of view. Thanks for this, Avenger.

[@rooster1012]

Just be aware that Tobii does not work on larger displays Tobii themselves acknowledge this but not in their advertising, I have a simpit with a 48" oled and it will not work in my situation but trackIR works great for me.

[@tommybrown9104]

@@rooster1012 how far back are you away from the screen? I am using a 52" and I am back between 6-7 feet and have been concerned whether any of these packages will work for me.

[@RichardKean_o7]

Great summary of both systems. I use Tobii and ended up turning of Gaze. But you still get the option to use gaze for target select. I played around with using facetrackNoIR and using the TrackIR selection in game in stead of Tobii. You loose the eye tracking completely but the head tracking can be a little more responsive.

[@BadTactics101]

Amazing timing! I'm considering one of these as an xmas gift to myself this year, so this video is downright perfect. Thank you very much, sir.

[@haze.x3342]

Super useful video. Thank you man. When I build my future system, I am planning on picking up the tobi.

[@Smap_SC]

I bought the Tobii last year because I had a lot of online meetings and didnt want to remove the Headclip every time. Also tobii software makes plug and play very easy (also in other games). And since I don't need the mega ultra presicion even though I do PvP it is more than enough for me. Highly recommended!

[@karmabad6287]

Agreed. I've had a head tracker before and I prefer the tobii.

[@billpii6314]

FYI TIR is much easier to setup for all their games IMO since I've never had to do anything to a singl game to make it work with TIR in 15 years+ , I bet you can't say the same about Tobii?

[@Smap_SC]

@@billpii6314 havent had any issues that couldnt be resolved in less than 3 minutes. And also this isn't a race. If you like TIR, good for you.

[@amytrubblemaker]

Good summary of the Track IR 5. I use one and I love it but it's fair to add the following critiques about it: Track IR 5 is old. There haven't been major updates to the hardware or software. The hardware, I admit, kiiiiinda sucks. There are two options for the tracking you wear on your head. The default method is the included hat clip. It requires you to wear a hat, and it's cheap garbage. You NEED the pro clip, and the pro clip requires you wear a headset, which I do anyways but maybe that's not appealing to some people. It's also fairly fragile. I've taken really good care of mine over the last 3 years and it's now starting to fall apart and is being held together with tape. If you forget to run the software before you run your game or the software crashes (which is very rare), you will need to restart your game. It will not work unless you run the software before you run the game you want to use it with. It's a wired connection. I believe there are ways or products that let you mod it to be wireless, but a wireless option is not included. Critiques aside, I absolutely love it, and it's simply no longer an option to play Star Citizen without it, at least not until the game supports VR. I even use it for FPS. The software is a little tricky to tune at first but you can get the hang of it pretty easy. If I can do it anyone can do it. I haven't tried the Tobii, but my friend loves it and even offered to buy one for me. I'm not against it, I find the accessibility of it quite appealing, but the fact is I already have one head tracker and don't need another, and least not until the tape gives out, and even then I STILL might choose the TrackIR5 for the responsiveness you mentioned. Track IR could definitely be better put together but it's still the better option for me personally.

[@billpii6314]

What update for TIR do you feel MUST be done because "its old"? The hat clip is garbage? Its a piece of metal with reflectors what is garbage about it? I can understand not likeng wires which is why I use a simple baseball cap with the hat clip NO WIRES NEEDED and a baseball cap is hardly the pain or uncomfortable. And YOU DO NOT need the pro clip the reflector and baseball cap work just as well. Yes tech wise it's supposed to be better but you, as a human, will not see the difference. The Pro clip is designed to come apart so you don't break it and it can easily be snapped back. I've had two TIR over I bet 15 years and the pro clip is still together in a drawer since I haven't even use it for the past 10 years. Basically your entire compliant about TIR can be fixed by NOT using the so-called Pro clip

[@amytrubblemaker]

@@billpii6314 As with any product critique, one's mileage may vary. These were my takeaways so if you had better luck with the hat clip then that's great for you, but not everyone likes wearing hats when they game. Personally, I'm not really a hat person, they give me headaches, hat head, and if I'm wearing wearing hairclips it's not super comfortable with a hat on. When I used the Proclip I did find there was greater fidelity in the tracking, and for sure it's pretty small but I wouldn't say it's unnoticeable. You are correct about the pro-clip coming apart easily and can be easily snapped back... but trust me it can only do that so much before it doesn't want to snap back together again so well.

[@bitmau5]

Wasn't sure which to pick up, timely, thank you!

[@lilkhmer5]

Tobii eye tracking really increases my immersion. I never used track ir or face tracking much and I got both a track IR 4 and a tobii (though i'm sure track IR 5 is different) and tobii felt more natural with eye movements added into the tracking as well.

[@Mulberry2000]

how can you use tobii if it will not fit to your pc?

[@lilkhmer5]

@@Mulberry2000What do you mean fit to your pc?

[@optimisto]

Great comparative review, recommending this to my org-mates. I think you did a wonderful job in describing while one may choose either product. I enjoy the Tobii 5 for my flying experience, especially as I am starting to race at the existing tracks. I have a 10:90 mix of eye:head, meaning that I use the head for most of the view movement, and my eyes are used to nudge the focus towards slightly off-screen items. Head tracking complements the HOTAS perfectly as a hands-free controller. I didn't like the gaze tracking to lock missiles onto target - that's something that I turned off fairly quickly. Something satisfying about sticking the landings between obstacles while remaining in first person perspective. Furthermore, the head tracking will allow you move your view around to see past canopy pillars and MFDs.

[@cromusz]

Great content as always. Really enjoyed your thoughts on the two different options!

[@EvidensInsania]

I'm a TOBII user and I'm very happy with it. Not used a Track IR though. But you can disable eye tracking on TOBII if you want just the head movement.

[@billpii6314]

What? disable the Gimmick!? I'd rather have a 150.00 Tobii without the worthless Eye Tracking. Tobii has tried hard to make its eye tracking seem relevant and usefull, but IMO, it's still worthless for the most part.

[@lifes2short4bs73]

Nice breakdown A1. I use a Tobii and love it, but I have experienced situations where the eye tracking portion is troublesome. Like while locking missiles if you look down at the MFDs the missile lock ring starts to degrade. I've learned to cope with it because I love the gaze targeting... Being able to lock, and fire missiles backwards with the rear view camera is really fun.

[@dkindig]

I run the slider that divides eye/head tracking emphasis all the way to the right so that the Tobii is essentially functioning as a head tracker only. The same thing kept happening to me, a glance down at a hud would upset my lock.

[@JeremyCRunge]

Honestly the reason I went with Tobii was that I don't always have a headset on. Minimalist fan and I am more like your dad where I am a fan of the industrial side of the game but don't shy away from a little pvp. I do have an issue with the Tobii that you didn't come across. I do have to reset the Tobii from time to time. Not often but sometimes ill do something and bam outa whack but I have it hot-keyed and its easy to reset it. It does take some getting used to the eye tracking as well and I normally have it set way down. Anyhow great video man.

[@billpii6314]

"Honestly the reason I went with Tobii was that I don't always have a headset on. " You don't have to have a headset on. Simple baseball cap and a metal clip on the hate, no wires, no headset just a light BB cap. oh the horror!

[@JeremyCRunge]

@@billpii6314wonder what this guy is a fan of LOL To each their own man.

[@iamdantheman360]

As an owner of both I would say the biggest con for tobi is its wayyy more limited range/fow. I have desk (ed: chair* sorry) mounted sticks so I have to sit a little bit away from my screen and with the tobi mounted to the edge of my desk could bearly work. Gase based targeting (one of to is best features) work better if you are in tobis sweet spot, otherwise targeting missiles is such a pain u stop using them. I did find a jank way to bring tobi closer to me by using Dif combos of camera mounts/clamps. If I could I would use tobi, but I mainly use ti5.

[@merclord]

I have owned TR-5 for years before I switched over to Tobii. I would argue that Tobii is just as responsive as TR-5 but it depends on your hardware - specifically your GPU/CPU and your monitor refresh rate. As for eye tracking I don't use it and completely disable it on Tobii.

[@ravennfall6034]

head tracking is better with TR5 and more adjustable

[@merclord]

@@ravennfall6034 I disagree

[@billpii6314]

@@merclord I and disagree with you. :)

[@bjordan429]

What perfect timing for this video! I am in the market for one of these and have reading up on both. Ive also come to the conclusion that eye tracking would be more of a liability.

[@billpii6314]

I'm not sure it's a liability as much as it seems to be a useful gimmick to sell "head" trackers for more $$ because they sound techier with Eye tracking. Most eye trackers can be turned off, leaving only Head track, and you won't notice anything different. I don't need an overlay to tell me where I'm looking; I can see!

[@MMORPG87]

i have the Tobii and its great. my big thing was wanting something that didnt have any delay or lag when moving. Tobii has none of that at all so i dont get the sick feeling or headache from it. plus nothing attached to me at all. in SC the eye tracking with head tracking is nice. even if i dont move my head itll turn the camera slightly and it feel natural. head tracking and eye tracking can all be tweaked to your pref in software. u can speed up slow down, set deadzone and saturation limits.

[@unclesammedia]

I really appreciate how to the point you are in you’re videos. There’s no fluff, just facts. You got a sub my man!

[@billpii6314]

He is actually a little dishonest in his sponsored review. For example, he said the TR5 and Tobii are about the same price, but they are not, with the Tobii being 100.00 more.

[@tanx0r]

Nice video! True Tobii feels floaty and lags a bit behind what your eyes are actually doing, which takes a bit of getting used to. I like all my controlls to be as direct and fast as possible so a laggy feeling eyetracker was a problem at first. It does help enormously with developing situational awareness as you can quickly peek what's going around you and you can target ships by just gazing at them and hitting your target button - no need for them to be in your crosshair. Inside Star Citizen you can set the head tracking vs eye tracking ratio which is standard at 85 vs 15 percent. You can also adjust the sensitivity. I highly recommend tweaking both sensitivity and eye vs head tracking ratio. I sit fairly close to my 43" monitor (for immersion) so I had to lower my sensitivity quite a lot.

[@And-c7n]

Tobin is designed for a 27” monitor maximum so perhaps that’s why?

[@tanx0r]

I know. Weird eh? Your angle changing more with a bigger screen and such who would have ever expected. DUH.

[@ch_boki]

I feel like a cripple without tobii on... hard to believe I was playing 5 years without it.

[@ooRay]

Great video! Funny enough, I´m having more problems with the TR5 pro clip, because the LEDs tend to overlap in certain angles. I switched to the reflector and it works like a charm. Also, one cable less to worry about.

[@JagHiroshi]

I use Tobii with the eye tracking for target selection. Love it.

[@PropKnucklesFPV]

Great video as always. I can't remember my exact tobii settings, but I'm like 95-99% head tracking, 1-5% eye tracking. Pretty sure it's a 99-1 split. Hope they can work on the lag (its not noticeable in most gameplay)

[@Sar1th]

Nice video! I was just looking into these things. I set up my old webcam with SC built-in Foip system and it works supprisingly but i wouldnt trust it enough to use in combat. For regular noncombat flight it was ok.

[@c-fluff1399]

I wish you out this out 6 months ago haha I just got a head tracker and the Tobii has been sitting on the shelf ever since. It’s truly a better experience IMO and worth dealing with the hardware, especially if you are into combat or low flying. Another thing with the Tobii I’ve noticed is that if I’m talking in discord or chewing, it will sway the view around I would also like to recommend the Grass Monkey Simulations unit. It’s a great value and company

[@madsky]

That sure was a dashing bucc pilot in this video!

[@Anachroschism]

You've covered everything I worried about with the Tobii. I feel my eyes move around too much, and that might not be the way I want my view facing, especially as I might just glance for half a second in another direction.

[@Avoozl]

You can set up Tobii to use 100% eye tracking (which is horrifying) to 100% head tracking. Personally I find 90-95% head and 5-10% eye being what fits me the best.

[@widgget]

Went with the Tobii about a month ago and been happy with it. I only wish it had more functionality within Windows itself but as for as Star Citizen goes, it's great.

[@qanniqtuq]

I had a TR5 but too much wiring and at the end I had a cable snap. Went to Tobii 4 then 5 and I love it in SC and other sims (FS, DCS, ...).

[@geekadventureteam7806]

I've been looking at comparison videos and most seem to also state that the TrackIR has a quicker response, between that and the fact that Tobii is about $100 more expensive, I think I am going to go with the TrackIR. Glad this video came out right before I decided to pull the trigger on one of these.

[@seancpcp]

I was worried about the eye movement as well, but you can fine tune the sensitivity and speed of both head and eyes so that they are as fast or slow as you need it to be. I found a healthy mix for mine.

[@Solo_01]

I did too.

[@alc2672]

What were the settings you used?

[@seancpcp]

@@alc2672 kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4LZaYRtdr6Ej7M

[@0Metatron]

I love my Tobii, it took me a while to really get the many settings really dialled in but once I did it feels great

[@margarine6614]

This is a really common question, great to have a video to direct people to. Also, who was that flying that beautiful bucc :D

[@Solo_01]

Ohh, one other thing that I found to be a problem with TR5 for me and my setup, is that on bright and sunny days it would at times make my TR5 skip or lag in the head tracking. Sometimes, because of where my rig is set up, I couldn't use the TR5 because it would be all over the place due to interference. I've never had that problem with Tobii.

[@billpii6314]

They track differently , simple readjust you camera a little.

[@Badmofojay]

While Tobii isn't your preferred device, would you be willing to make a settings video to help others get a feel for the miriad of settings the Tobii has?

[@Avenger__One]

I can try, but it might get pushed behind from all the other things I need to build out

[@Badmofojay]

@@Avenger__One No problem, just means more training between now and then. 1% better every day.

[@Avoozl]

Karolinger has a good video on what all settings do and his recommended settings.

[@johnark2728]

Great video. You forgot to mention you can turn off eye tracker and use 100% head. I use 97:3 so that the eye tracking has minimal effect.

[@Avenger__One]

True, but TR5 is still more responsive

[@johnark2728]

No argument there

[@billpii6314]

So why pay for it, buy TIR and save big.

[@BigMikeClockwork]

I was literally wondering the best eye tracker setup to get while taking my morning dook, and this pops up - awesome

[@xXE4GLEyEXx]

I use a trackhat for the past... 5-6 years. Bought one, never broke on me, works good, and was about 40ish bucks xd love that thing

[@arcadealchemist]

i see a lot of Potential for Tobii 5 epscially if they can make interact modes feel more fluid by having buttons a little bigger in some cases and allow focus eye intteractions maybe even pre-emptive player animations

[@redace3928]

Your right about the immersion I'm using tracker IR5 with a motion platform spent a few days with out either one and my experience felt off disconnected almost

[@daniels7345]

Fun timing, I literally bought the Tobii yesterday 😅

[@VanFS3K]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but a big disadvantage of the tobii is the size of screen it works with. I try to use mine , head tracking only, with a 80" screen so It sits on my desk. It kinda works, but not ideal and you get no eye tracking with anything larger than a 34" screen.

[@MountainDewFuel]

Just received my Track IR5 yesterday. The set up was beyond easy & the operation was very intuitive. Within 10 minutes I was flying & able to utilize the advantages of the head tracking, it had an immediate impact on my performance.

[@CamonDraconis]

I just turn eye tracking off in SC. Seems to also increase the responsiveness of head tracking in SC as well.

[@splooshnoonley5620]

Great video, really helped my decision making process. Helpful criticism: try not to swallow/click your tongue as audibly and often as you do here because it's a bit much in headphones. New to the channel but loving your content so far ty

[@KowieMcZowie]

For now for convenience sake for my TR5 I just use the supplied hat clip and one of my wifes right sized hair ties to hold it in place on top of my headphones, super quick n easy to put on and take off when im in the mood for taking a break(screw wearing a hat lol, headphones are good enough to for it to be mounted to). It stills works perfectly im guessing because the sensor isn't to far away and I don't have too much light pollution going on. One day i'll finally use the track clip pro then again if i ever get a decent wireless headset thats as good as the wired one i have it would be highly tempting to stick with my current setup and stay fully wireless.

[@callipygianpilot2700]

I swear, just recently I thought about this and wondered what the differences are. I definitely want one, I guess I'll wait for a good deal to get either. Thanks!

[@FrozenKnight21]

Never used a TR5 but i have used Tobii. The only issues i have had with Tobii are as follows. Cons first: Tobii has 2 IR and 2 LED's sensors which point straight at you. Which until you get used to it can make your eyes feel tired. Tobii does occasionally require reset if you significantly change position. E.g when you get up out of your chair, or make a major shift in your chair. (Which as a fidgeted I tent to move a quite a bit over time.) It can be a bit of an issue to find the center of where your guns are aiming in FPS. System is addictive, once you start using it you will have trouble playing with it off. It can occasionally crash, this has only happened to me once or twice in the year i have been using it but it can happen. System could be more advanced but has some artificial limitations placed on it to force it to be a Gaming only device. Pros: Tobii is available for several games, granted it's not an over large list but it is in the hundreds. In games like SC it allows you to greatly expand your viewing range. In most games (including SC) you can turn off head tracking or Eye tracking and just use the other feature if you like, you can even adjust the scale of one or the other. i usually fly with weigth of 85% head and 15% eye tracking. That feels about tight for me. it can be used as bio-metric authentication for windows. So, you can just walk up to your computer and have it unlock. (Threw my roommate off when he saw me walk up to it and just start using my computer. He tried it later and couldn't get in.)

[@MadManxJDF]

Just got a Tobii eye tracker 5 after having a trackir for almost 10 years. I was at first concerned about the reports of latency etc but after getting it and hooking it up I don't notice anything significant in Star Citizen. The eye tracking in SC combined with the head tracking definitely works better for me than just head tracking making it easier to keep things in view while moving. I would recommend Tobii over TR5 for Star Citizen if you have the choice between the 2. I cannot speak to other games at this time. I have an Alienware AW3423DW monitor FYII and despite not picking me up on the edges 100% it works.

[@gabrielmllr]

Let's gooo!

[@TheObiShinobi]

Could you go over the trackir 5 motion adjustments in a future video? I just use the default profile atm but figure I could dial it in better if I knew exactly what I'm doing.

[@billpii6314]

You can leave all of the options on, and you're good. There is nothing to tweak with TIR. I've been on the default for 15+ years, and there is nothing more to do.

[@majboomer1285]

So I have been trying to find a good head tracker for a while now. I got the Tobii as my first one about a year ago. I didn't like the responsiveness even after really trying to dial it in. I also figured out one of the reasons it was not working for me very well is range I sit from the screen. Once you have the width of the desk and then stick mounts, and then lean back comfortably in the chair...it was just too far for it to track reliably. I can tell it is a range issue because when I sit normally it won't even calibrate...I have to lean forward a lot to get it to see my eyes. I use a 32 inch monitor, I know they say 27 inch max, but I don't think that is the issue. It calibrates and tracks perfectly if I am sitting closer to the monitor. So I tried a webcam that just used FaceTrack built into SC, but that seemed to have range problems as well. Then I found one called the AIMXY Z...that was the best one so far, it has a 3 meter range and was pretty damn responsive, but just not quite as smooth as I have seen other peoples TR5 be. I REALLY didn't want wires to my head, so I had been avoiding the TrackIR 5, but I got one to try out anyway, and the TR5 is the one. It is smooth as butter, and I have no range issues. I do not like the wires of the TrackClip Pro, but I found a 3rd party TrackClip Pro solution that should take it to wireless and be more durable. I have not broken the TCPro yet, but I can see how it happens easily. It won't be here until January though...so the TCPro just has to last until then. Great Video! This is the link for the 3rd Party TCPro I found. www.etsy.com/listing/1173950727/irtrackstar-rs-ultralight?ref=yr_purchases

[@dkindig]

I have a 3' wide (3' deep from a desk perspective) solid-core door as my desktop and a HOSAS setup with mounts. I use a heavy-duty monitor arm with my 34" curved monitor and even with moving my chair back a couple of inches to position myself with the sticks I can pull my monitor toward me and only have about a 2 foot distance from my eyes to the monitor. It works well.

[@CPUDreams]

I wonder how much is the hardware vs. the software? Tobii head tracking feels pretty good in Hunternet compared to Track IR and VR head tracking. It's not quite as snappy as Track IR but I was impressed with it when I worked on the support for it. Eye tracking for more precise targeting is really nice. It's a touch choice so videos like this one are a very useful :)!

[@dayumcraig7657]

This is exactly the experience I had with tobii. The delay of the headtracking is simply too high. I always hoped that it would get better with future updates of the Tobii software, but it didn't. The eyetracking works very fast - almost perfect for me, so I don't understand why the headtracking function is so slow.

[@UncleBenjs]

I've used both on the same set up and don't get the delay but that is being very close to a small monitor so maybe that makes a difference. A lot of people don't get tobii dialed in right which makes a difference tho

[@0Metatron]

@@UncleBenjs yea exactly you really have to spend a lot of time to get the settings right and once you do you don’t notice any issues like delay

[@dkindig]

Tobii has a dead zone setting for head movement that might create some delay.

[@sphaera3809]

Just ordered a Tobii today… Can’t wait to try it in SC.

[@ottEST]

TrackIR has been said to not work well when siting next to a window or if a window is behind you, as you stated. This is the case with me as well (large livingroom window next to me and one behind me as well. Also I love to have as few wires around me as possible. So Tobii was my only practical choice anyway. And I like that I can have both head and eyetracking. I usually use eyes for smaller movements inside cocpit for displays (some ships have them a bit outside the normal field of view and headtracking for looking around). And it's awesome.

[@Dr_Scarlett]

Nice differentiation video!

[@FlesHBoX]

I enjoy my Tobii (and the non-gaming benefits are super solid), but I've always felt like the Track IR would be more precise for head tracking, and thought that a combination of TrackIR head tracking with Tobii eye tracking would be optimal. I'm happy to not have the TrackIR hanging off my headphones though.

[@Metro2Metro]

On Star Citizen you can use your webcam to track your head. Hey cheap webcam of 30 bucks would be the cheapest option to go. And it's possible not as good as. Toby or track 5 but you get what you pay for

[@Artecius92]

I have a Tobbi but I am M&K and I honestly have used it a few times and never used it since. It's still sitting there attached to my PC. I will just have to wait and see for the future I guess if I get some sticks.

[@nathanielescudero5379]

Thanks for your insights. For me it would have been more rounded if you'd compared to the built in head tracking via webcam which is what I'm currently using. I can tell that how well my face is lit has an effect on it. What I don't know is how responsive the head tracking is (when set up well) compared to the tr5 and Tobi. Yours would be the most valued opinion on this.

[@Fluke2SS]

As I have used both: TrackIR 5 needs a dark space and no light pollution as you said, but Tobii is the opposite, it needs light to see your eyes and even the shape of your head. It does not work well in a dark environment. By dark I mean only light coming from you monitor. TR5 is better at zooming than Tobii. Tobii is not eye glasses friendly unlike TR5. The reflections from your glasses can interfere with Tobii but do not affect TR5. Tobii however eliminates cabling issues which is par for the course with TR5. And I have to reset Tobii ALL the time. Head position matters when it comes to re-centering Tobii. However, there are several settings in Star Citizen that can auto-center Tobii. Tobii also has a floating problem even if you disable eye tracking, your facial expressions can cause Tobii to move by itself even if you do not move your head position. (i.e. eye brow raising, or exaggerated neck/jaw movements) TR5 is better at snapping to center point than Tobii which eliminates floating issues when looking forward. And yes you are right TR5 is more responsive, there is an input delay with Tobii that for someone like me who is very sensitivity to response times there is a noticeable delay. Truthfully been debating about going back to TR5 myself.

[@flyr19]

One major Tobii feature I didn't hear you mention is gaze-based target selection. This even allows off-axis missile locking simply by looking at a target (even over your shoulder at someone chasing you). I don't think you can do that with TR5, right?

[@billpii6314]

So you can cheat? I'm betting you haven't heard about it because it doesn't work with a damn, but it sure sounds good.

[@flyr19]

@@billpii6314 It's not cheating if it's how the game is designed to function. Gaze-based targeting is included as a feature in the official settings. Also, you're assumption that it doesn't work well is wrong. I use it all the time, and it works great!

[@michaeltarver8235]

You should go over the FOIP head tracking that star citizen has innately

[@SpinWing100]

Thanks for the update, I have been on the fence for a while. I actually worked with Tobii years back for an FPS game I was working on. Great company. Sent us demo units as well. But probably set on the TR5 for SC for now.

[@jookm]

This video is exactly what I needed. I have TrackIR 5 and find myself frequently adjusting the headset clip and pressing the reset button to recenter. I also use a minimal headset that is not used for game audio so it doesn't clip easily. I think I might get the Tobii to see if I am satisfied with the response time.

[@falcon758]

I picked up the Tobii for all the pro's that were mentioned. However, I dont really see responsive problems with the Tobii. It is more than responsive enough for me. But perhaps I am just not quick enough in combat to notice lag :D

[@UncleBenjs]

I don't get lag either but am close to small monitor. I've also compared it on the same set up to other options. I wonder if monitor size and distance makes a difference

[@Bruce_Warren]

Avengerrr👀ONE!

[@R1PPA-C]

I love it how your dad's in the verse.. That must be such a nice thing to have

[@ForwardKinematics]

Adjusting the responsiveness of Tobii works fine. High responsiveness and low jerk distance for eye tracking is how i like to run the eyes.

[@Leispada]

what's jerk distance?

[@ForwardKinematics]

@@Leispada If you have the Tobii tracker, its my why of describing the yaw and pitch distance the device allows for your eye's to move the screen. So I have that at around 11 to 18 degrees, and the responsiveness at 100. Head tracking is highly responsive as well and does the majority of the work for me.

[@Leispada]

@@ForwardKinematics ill try those settings out! thanks

[@DigitalHodgePodge]

Ah, see, now this makes sense. I've been wondering why I suck at PVP still; it turns out it's just because I'm using a Tobii. Totally clears things up... ... ...time to go get my 1% in. ^^;

[@stompar]

Yah brother I love my tobii. I use it for dcs and star citizen and flight sim. It’s great for all of them and I bring it with me on the road so on my laptop or desktop I have head tracking.

[@whoisthatthen]

I think the curve control and response on tr5 is better but I use the Tobii for just ease of use and the eye tracking for target locks.

[@VonSands]

Agreed, and once I left the cables behind with my TR-5, its been a more enjoyable experience

[@Sydewinder86]

How do you account for the monitor being in a fixed place but phisically pointing your face away from it? How exaggerated of a movement do you have to make to move your in game head? Is it 1:1? Or does a slight glance turn your head 45 degrees? These things have been my major concern with either system and why I just want to wait for true VR, but willing to be convinced.

[@Avenger__One]

It's not bad at all, you get used to it and it feels natural

[@dkindig]

The dead zone for head movement as well as the ratio and extents of movement is customizable.

[@buzzfightbeer8023]

You missed a really good feature of Tobii - targeting based on what you are looking at. It is amazing.

[@diminios]

Huh, interesting. I have to reset my tobii quite often, but then, I do sit quite far from it, maybe that's the problem. Also, for tobii, you can set it to only track your head movement in SC. I mean, it still tracks your eyes, and can be annoying when targeting or missile locking, but "vision movement" based on your eyes can be disabled.

[@asymsolutions]

I've been using a left over logi webcam w/aitrack and opentrack for both this and DCS. Having the connect to opentrack dump under the newest DCS build multiple times and made me realize that reliability is more important than response times. It sounds like the Tobii will be for me and hopefully they will allow us to disable eye tracking for hopefully faster response time in the future. Responsiveness means nothing to me if I'm stuck with my head twisted over my shoulder, or looking at my digital man-hood because the engine desync'd with my peripherals for a split-second and isn't sure where center is unless I press a button. A button that may not be allowed to work with programs in the background to block cheaters.

[@amiridiculous]

I also have the Tobii Eyetracker 5. Been using it in Elite Dangerous aswell as Star Citizen. The default settings weren't to my liking in both games, so I had to adjust and try out, which took a while in both games. Regarding ED, you have to make the changes in the Tobii Experience software, but it isn't necessaraly a downside, as you can just tab out of the game, make your changes in the Tobii Software, and it's instantaneously there when you tab back in. SC has the Options Ingame, but imo a bit more confusing. I lowered the eye tracking/gaze very much down, so that it is only a mere support for the headtracking. That one I set to a very fast reaction speed and high sensitivity. I almost got it to feel the same in both games and when i quickly move my head, e.g. to track some fast ship that just flew by, there is a small amount of delay, but nothing I notice when I'm concentrating on the game. Wouldn't want to play those games without the tracker anymore, because it's not just and advantage, it's also super immersive and more fun. I even catch myself playing other games on XBOX where I tilt my head and then i remember "ahh ok, i dont have the tracker here, right". :)

[@AKARazorback]

Have you tried using gimbals with eye-tracking?

[@Avenger__One]

Not effective

[@AKARazorback]

@@Avenger__One Thanks!

[@monostripezebras]

Have you tried freetrack? It should be a good solution for the more economic minded

[@Avenger__One]

Not as of yet

[@FunkThompson]

Track IR is head-tracking. Tobii is head + EYE tracking. That right there, for me, wins - hands down. Track IR has the better responsiveness. Tobii has the overall better experience / features, but yes, some folks will prefer Track IR's responsiveness.

[@billpii6314]

"Tobii is head + EYE tracking. That right there, for me, wins - hands down." Why? What does that head tracking do that makes it 150.00 more? Its a gimmick to sell you their more expensive Head Tracker

[@FunkThompson]

@@billpii6314 I mean, with Tobii, I can target another ship without moving my head. I can focus look at MFD's without moving my head, in some cases. It tracks your *pupils* not your head. That said, TrackIR is better in some ways. Mostly in that it's a bit more "stable" and loses your gaze / aligment less often. Not that this is a huge issue on Tobii, but it's a thing.

[@JINGWA64]

another option is DIY as well, there are a few options for DIY, some of which are common within race and flight sims, because they are so cheap and easy to DIY and $$$ can be spent in other areas... though DIY does mean u will need to be more hands on and be prepared to fiddle more to get things perfect, though u can often use other people's settings for the software as well, which may also end up being perfect ... though the con is obviously more work/time upfront to save $$$ and depends on ur ability to DIY, for which some people suk at... but if done correctly you basically end up with a experience as good or in some cases even better then whats of the shelf, if u know what ur doing, as u can take advantage of that knowledge/experience and apply it be it in the hardware side or the software side.

[@30K_ACTUAL]

I’ve had a TR5 for 4 years or so, the pro-clip is now coming apart being so flimsy as it is. It worked really well in SC, while I never really got it set correctly for DCS World. Best head tracking is still from VR.

[@DerpMcDerp101]

Hey, Avenger One. Im eyeballing this Grass Monkey Monkey King Puck. Its wireless and It seems to have great reviews comparing it to track iR. As it claims to have 240 hz and .24 latency which puts its performance above the tr5. Have you looked at this product? What are your thoughts.

[@Avenger__One]

Never heard of it

[@DerpMcDerp101]

@@Avenger__One I grabbed one ill let you know honestly if its butter smooth. Not that you know me from a hole in the wall but ill let you guys know anyways. Also thanks for all the Videos that you have produced they have helped a lot in the Dog Fighting category which is my favorite thing to do in the verse.

[@YaddaYaddaDa]

Havent tried the tobii but I got trackir5 recently and just got the predator mounts for my sticks and it's pretty sweet so far. I'm also using my thrust master racing pedals as a throttle with joystick gremlin. It all took a fair bit of fiddling around setting everything up but once I did it is quite the experience

[@AKARazorback]

Would have liked to see a comparison with FOIP/ face tracking that comes with the game, as well as DelanClip. Good video otherwise.

[@wickedgaming9632]

Awesome video.

[@Zathul4198]

Am I looking at the wrong places? I went to compare them myself but it seems like the Tobii Eye Tracker 5 was sitting around $280-$300, and the TIR 5 was around $150-$170 (depending on clip option). We’re they really close in price just 5 months ago? Why is it seemingly $100+ more for Tobii now?

[@prichardgs]

You can turn eye tracking off in Tobii I thought? So it would only be tracking head movement ?

[@aithemed]

That’s not the question, the question that matter is what buy first a eye/head tracker or a flight stick HOSAS?

[@EviLNox8]

I have the tobii. The head tracking seems pretty lightning fast to me but I've never tried the trackIR to compare. Also, you could turn off the eye tracking portion and just use head tracking. Being able to missile lock with your eyes is cool and all but my eyes dart around so much too that I'll actually lose missile locks lol. But you can also disable missile lock with eyes as well. Tobii is very cool tool either way.