Award-Winning Composer Plays Overrated/Underrated

[@BenLevin]

I definitely felt helpless the first 2 years after I graduated Berklee. All of my friends from school moved to different places so my music community practically disappeared. I even got scammed by a fake publicist. Actually 2... So your course sounds super important!

[@MariaFinkelmeier]

What?! I’m so sorry to hear about the scamming 😫 i hope students grab some take away from my courses 🤞🏻I’ve always been so inspired by how you’ve built community, Ben, so i would have had no idea that you felt helpless right after school. Thanks for sharing and being open with all of us!

[@paulchristie8452]

What about conducting?

[@paulchristie8452]

Can an exceptionally brilliant conductor beat an amazing multi instrument in a musical talent contest? Frank Sinatra vs Prince

[@nickcoronado898]

Parallel fifths discourse always bugs me. "Never use parallel fifths." Yeah, sure, when you're writing fugal counterpoint and your goal is to foster melodic independence for each of your voices. And even then, it would be more correctly phrased as "parallel fifths will undermine the melodic independence of your voices, so bear that in mind if that's your goal." Otherwise, go nuts, and anyone telling you parallel fifths are bad is just flexing their limited understanding of a branch of music theory they probably recently encountered. Sincerely, a formerly annoying person who used to do this.

[@MariaFinkelmeier]

YES! GO NUTS PEOPLE!

[@Irina35mm]

Same, but in a bit of a different way: what is this even about?? Is it an american thing? Is that the literal attitude of the professors, or is it a missunderstanding of sorts? Where I studied* I understood it / it was framed as ''don't use parallel fifths... when we study Renaissance counterpoint and Classical tonal harmony BECAUSE it sounds too much like medieval music, which is what the people in the ~1700s were trying to avoid''. After all that we studied MODAL harmony, and there it wasn't a no-no any longer. Like, it's about CONTEXT *(at the National University of Music in Bucharest, Romania)

[@nickcoronado898]

@@Irina35mm I'm american, and my experience was that it was mostly a misunderstanding. For me, and I imagine for a lot of others, classical tonal harmony is taught verrrry early in music theory curriculum. So we would get into these lessons with all these RULES, and even with some historical context (which didn't always happen depending on the teacher), we didn't have much to compare it to, so we'd end up thinking the rules applied to everything. The results were us taking away lessons like "wait a minute, you can't use FOURTHS?" and either having a hard, visceral reaction of "well that's stupid," or feeling like "well those are the rules of good music I guess." The first camp would lean towards growing kind of disillusioned with music theory, and the second camp would start becoming openly critical if not hostile to music we encountered in the world because it violated these "rules of good music." So it's a bit of a lack of nuance on the side of the teachers, and a bit of maybe introducing these topics too early in their theoretical development before they get a chance to contextualize the lessons. I know when I first started learning theory, I grasped onto anything I could learn that might make me understand what good music is. "Good music doesn't have parallel fifths" was, unfortunately, one of those concepts.

[@Irina35mm]

​@@nickcoronado898 That is wild - both extremes are! Thank you so much for explaining, I had this confusion for years hahah The strange thing is that we can see even from Debussy (so a century ago) that this went back into use. Then modern&contemporary classical music uses a different musical language, so tonality and its rules do not apply*. And THEN, above all, MOST pop, rock etc music is rather modal than tonal... (I'm not sure how jazz is being taught, but there must be examples of this?) *I guess there it could have been frowned upon some time ago for being too 'easy' or 'predictable' idk Unfortunately, the composer in the video frames it the same way: ''rules vs. breaking them'', when it was never a general rule but a context 'rule'. I really really really wish she stayed on that a bit; I get that this feeling of 'rebellion' would resonate with many people watching this, but I think it's misplaced :)) Yeah the teachers should explain also. I would imagine they think that it's somehow understood that since you're studying a specific style, era and location of music, then what is being taught applies only to that, but stuff like this should always be clarified... Or... perhaps some of them ALSO think that it's just bad in general?? :))

[@jonathanwingmusic]

I definitely agree the discourse around parallel 5ths/8ves should be framed more as a guidance/suggestion and not a "rule." Makes perfect sense when writing 4-part harmony especially with similar timbres such as a choir which is why this "rule" came about in the first place; I think it's worth understanding the thinking behind it and then deciding for yourself whether to exploit or avoid for creative reasons.

[@jamajamajama]

It's funny how the different circles people run in can change our perception of things. As someone outside of academic music, it's wild to me that parallel fifths could be considered underrated given how ubiquitous they are outside of the classical idiom. I'm not saying they're overrated, they often used for good reason, it's just crazy that there are people who are still shying away from them in so many contexts where they'd work well

[@MariaFinkelmeier]

Agree! Academia needs a update 😂

[@Irina35mm]

As a non-american I wondered for years what the heck this is about. Here, in another comment, I understand that it's a sort of missunderstanding from the fact that teachers don't explain clearly... that fact that it's about CONTEXT (and that students internalize that it's just bad in general). Basically, when you begin studying harmony, it's probably tonal harmony from Classicism. It's pretty straightforward and provides an essential framework for understanding (from a music theory pov) what is going on in... Classical era (and a bit before and after it). The context is, first of all, that it sounded too medieval, and every epoch tries to contrast the previous one in some way. Also the sound of it doesn't fit the aesthetic. But with Debussy onward things change drastically... I'm sure jazz has them as well? And then, most pop/rock music (all around us for decades) is more modal than tonal? And modality goes hand in hand with some parallelism :D

[@frankstanley7079]

This was the first video I caught of yours. I thought it was well done and I’m excited to see what you put out next! I’m currently a music student studying jazz with a background in percussion at UCO ( University of Central Oklahoma)

[@MariaFinkelmeier]

Nice to meet you here! Thanks for your kind words and for following! More coming 🎉

[@strangequark420]

The only artist I dig playing weird time signatures like 21/16 is Frank Zappa. Because that extra 16th note ... you can feel it, and it feels like it belongs.

[@matheuscastello6554]

i agree with everything but the time signatures in the music theory part. i know you said if it has intent it's cool, but i'm always taking that assumption, you can make some amazing sounding stuff with them, and fit very particular purposes by creating tension. i like to think of it as like a rhythmic dissonance as opposed to the consonance of 4/4. plus, you can get some really groovy stuff in those time signatures, idk i am a huge fan hahaha but awesome video anyway, it's cool hearing your pov as someone with visibly so much music knowledge

[@brianfriedlandmusic]

This video was such a cool concept and impressed by the depth your answers. It's making her think and also want to get into some new areas with my music.

[@MariaFinkelmeier]

Thanks so much Brian! I had no idea what they were going to ask 😅

[@Barichter74318]

Great video! The idea of doing overrated/underrated on music topics is already a cool idea, but the way you explain each topic and your thoughts on it only makes it better

[@jakehendriksen2841]

Your enthusiasm is beautiful and infectious! I look forward to watching more of your videos. :)

[@garputhefork]

The problem is that people take 1-2 years of theory their first two years of college as an undergrad, maybe have 1 semester of a world music class, and a week of anything written past 1920. They think the "rules" in 100 and 200-level music theory are how you're "supposed" to compose. It's a big problem I found throughout grad school. (And I hated ear training, too. I think playing in a Balinese gamelan was way more helpful than sight singing.)

[@stephenweigel]

Great video!

[@MariaFinkelmeier]

Thank you!

[@jamajamajama]

lol seeing this comment is essentially a spoiler for the video, if stephen weigel says it's a great video then maria definitely didn't call microtonality overrated

[@troysmithfr]

@@jamajamajama LOL

[@dudewithavideocamera]

I very much agree with your thoughts on the shortcomings of formal music education in regards to how to succeed as a musician after finishing your program. Everything you mentioned I've experienced myself and I wish my school had had more focus on teaching new music technology as well as post-graduation career building skills. Your class sounds very useful and needed and I wish I could have taken something like it at my school a decade ago 🤣

[@Thomas-yl8lb]

0:21 You just earned a subscription! :)

[@RedstoneManiac13]

Very cool in-depth answers!

[@MariaFinkelmeier]

Thank you! I was 😅 a bit! Haha

[@rodrigoodonsalcedocisneros9266]

Man! I learned so much about the music scene from just this one video. Great content!

[@MariaFinkelmeier]

Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching!

[@thelooniesttoon]

This is all so true!! It's lovely seeing new music topics explained so well and effortlessly :)

[@74bassman]

Microtonal music is underrated... Love it! I am a microtonal music addict and wish it was more popular

[@barrypaulh]

1:12 somewhere somehow John Cage clicked ‘like’ ………………….. S I L E N C E …………….

[@jonathanwingmusic]

Love your enthusiasm for everything! Agree with all of them except ear training - but that's because I do not come from a conservatory or clasically trained background. I grew up playing in rock bands - in that world no one talks about ear training whatsoever. I actually had never even heard of sight singing until I was in my 30s and never knew "ear training" was even a thing with actual methodologies. After diving further into it and learning to sight sing and transcribe, I have to say it improved my musical skills ten-fold, like even better than practicing my actual instruments! Really taught me to listen and understand music. I think more non-conservatory and untrained musicians should give it a go!

[@officalpotus]

Disagree: Microtonality - Yes, it's a tappable avenue certainly, but I've more often seen it being used in an overrated fashion, at least on KZbin. Agree: Silence - Its role in music and _as_ music tends to be underrated, even that of rests, mutes and their proper 'playing.' Disagree: Unconventional time signatures - Because I agree with your comments but similarly wouldn't reduce this to a binary but Case-by-Case. Agree: A=432 Hz - Unless more is revealed about the nature of the human response to the pitch spectrum which would make it part. exploitable. (Note: Giving the tuning tone while background music plays may skew the listeners' impression since the music used is presumably A = 440 HZ.) Agree: Parallel 5ths - Yes there are hangovers of the Common Practice Period where educators have marked too fine a point of their avoidance. - : Percussion-only ensembles - More than viable for interesting performances if not overtheoretical, unvaried or self-indulgent, for my taste. Overrated: Academia in the Arts (and the Sciences for that matter); Underrated: Lili Boulanger (and Ravel for that matter), Classical music - By non-musicians, Theory - By non-jazz guitarists. Overrated: Black & White thinking-as well as other Pokémon games after 2004.

[@luphoria]

Yes!! - Microtonality is very stigmatized nowadays I think. People hear that word and asusme the avant-garde, or Jacob Collier, or modern contemporary dissonant sounds... people rarely hear "microtonality" and think about things like an equally tempered pentatonic scale, or 31edo... let alone just intonation. The word, "microtonality," is maybe even a misnomer... what about macrotonality? I prefer the term "xenharmony" 😉 we're so used to 12edo in our little western bubble we can forget that pure tuning is microtonal. To add on to your take about AI - I don't think many people understand that AI-generated content is not "intelligently" generated... it's simply derivative of its dataset. The other day, I heard someone note the difference between "artificial intelligence" (a quasi conscious machine making decisions) and "machine learning" (an algorithm designed to generate outputs from its inputs). ALL of "AI" right now is ML, not AI. I like your description of "the now" especially btw. fun video!!!

[@BRUXXUS]

I love how you, as a percussionist, say the weird time signatures are overrated! I have a lot of percussionist friends, and so much of the pieces they play sounds like utter nonsense. Like, I know they're playing what's written, and well, but it just sounds like someone dropped a rack down a stairwell. Hahaha

[@Sundrobrocc]

Awesome and super professional video!! This video itself is extremely underrated :)

[@nkutlug]

Amazing video, amazing energy. Thanks a million ❤

[@theofficiallobst6592]

I might not be totally correct about this, but the idea of avoiding parallel fifths is pretty strictly a western classical thing. Basically perfect fifths are naturally present in the overtone series of most sounds, so historically, whenever perfect fifths cropped up musically, people sometimes perceived them as one note as opposed to two. Avoiding parallel fifths in the classical period was mostly just composers trying to maximize the sense of independence and contrast between melodic lines to counteract this phenomenon, but otherwise, for most of human history, parallel fifths have actually been extremely common/a harmonic backbone in a lot of different types of music globally.

[@GizzyDillespee]

I think VR concerts are under-rated when that's the best available option for a group of listeners or for a specific performer, or for a difficult living situation. I think it's currently over-rated as a general purpose primary venue.

[@MariaFinkelmeier]

This is a super valid point, thanks for bringing to the table!

[@-itkindaworks-]

Wow, this opened my eyes in a way I just don't get myself. I play mainly acoustic blues in the style of Robert Johnson and now I feel.. I can take it further

[@quinoislas]

Amazing video! I forsee this channel growing teremendously. I would love to take that course of opportunities & enviroment!

[@TheSequentCalculus]

There seems to be a tension between microtonality being under- and "unconventional time signatures" being over-rated. Couldn't you say that, while 4/4 sounds nice, there's so much space and crunchy notes between those 4 quarters, and that we should use them?

[@MariaFinkelmeier]

I love that perspective, to play more wildly within the 4/4 framework - YES

[@Riccardo_Mori]

KZbin suggested this video out of the blue, and I'm glad it did. You are so personable and an excellent communicator. I hope you'll get many more subscribers and a wider audience here, because it's criminal you have only 500 subscribers at the time of writing. Cheers! //Rick

[@themathhatter5290]

Given you rating odd time signatures as overrated, I'd be very interested to see you do almost a "ranking" of odd time usage in songs, from the more pop side of "Mission Impossible" by Lalo Schifrin, "I Say a Little Prayer" by Dionne Warwick, "Money" by Pink Floyd, "Seven Days" by Sting, and "Hey Ya!" by Outkast to more modern math/prog heavy works, like "Dance of Eternity" by Dream Theater, "Never Meant" by American Football, "God He Sees In Mirrors" by Meshuggah, or "Entertain Me" by Tigran Hamasayan. I don't think it's incorrect to say that the artists certainly had an intent behind choosing the signatures they did to convey certain feelings, but whether they come across as a listener is an entirely different question.

[@itisinickt]

they have participation awards for composing music now?

[@pedrorocha9722]

Background music while talking? Overrated.

[@pauljacksonfxsta]

Had me at "see what I did there?"!!!

[@MarkSlaterMusic]

I think children should be exposed to music with as much variation as possible - music isn't about rules - communication is about rules - otherwise we can't understand one another. But there are many things we can communicate within that - and sound is very flexible. But when you just write one random note after another, it can be like just randomly picking words from a dictionary - nonsense results.

[@guitarislife01]

There was only 14. The plug for your class doesn't count

[@anweshbhattacharya8017]

She is so visibly passionate!!! Love it.

[@samanthacrush1989]

LOVE parallel fifths!! And quintal harmonies!!

[@paxwallace8324]

It strikes me that there's such a vast world of non diatonic but tonal chromaticism that composers could and should inculcate without ever getting microtonal or leaving the notes of the piano or vibraphone! This is spoken as a jazz pianist who normally avoids the tonal clichés of standard practice. I don't get that classical musicians/composers really understand this! I'm saying from experience that remaining in that noman's land where tonality is beginning to breakdown but still there if a little ghostly ain't so easy especially if You're demanding a high level of anything, like architectural considerations or lyicism or both. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. It strikes me that any composer worth his or her salt would seek walk talk sing that tightrope.

[@MikaelMannberg]

Very good video!! 👍

[@philipgreene8345]

This is really great advice.

[@tonygohagan2766]

I think: All Good/inevitable; the Petite Bourgeois/Managerial Classes play a full role in maintaining the positions historically carved out for them to inhabit; entertaining, impressing, awarding, employing each-other! I'm oft very surprised by how smug many of 'em are - yet, am never surprised that their music is principally forgettable, much pomp, meagre art, is of extremely low relatability, very narrow appeal, would be redundant if created in the Mainstream, but unassisted - Popular Music's commerce, yet has more Saving Grace for more People: nothing 'Personal'. Society's to blame.

[@misterguy9051]

micro-silence is underunderrated

[@ThatDapperMusician]

I’m not sure, I think she might be a conservatory trained musician🤔

[@dwftube]

Amen to the time signatures answer.

[@LetzBeaFranque]

Conservatives need to teach students to say "would you like fries with that?"

[@TataMataAkrobata]

well if you can't play 5/8, 7/8, 15/8 etc obviously you will call it over-rated. especially for a percussionist, it is strange to not be able to play such rhytms, but I guess it's quite different in usa than in eastern parts of the world. those are very natural rhytms once you hear quality musicians performing them.

[@davidphilipp16]

?

[@TataMataAkrobata]

@@davidphilipp16 !

[@whatsthatnoise5955]

Not what she said is it

[@TataMataAkrobata]

@@whatsthatnoise5955 ''which i CAN't, but I try'' is her quote. you made me rewatch which is very, very annoying. 15/8 is very natural when played well.

[@whatsthatnoise5955]

@@TataMataAkrobata lol, what did she say JUST before the bit you quote? She was very clearly talking about polyrhythms, not time signatures like 5/8 etc. Two very different things.

[@DVDFRMN]

"award winning composer" ? That will only appeal to NPC people who cannot think for themselves and need everything to be validated by others before they are sure it is safe for them to watch/listen/read... You know yourself that there are works by unknown composers that are far more deserving than whatever you won an award for , awards can never be a badge of success or authenticity or authority because all awards are bogus

[@scotthullinger4684]

@MariaFinkelmeier - At least we agree with each other. No student should be talked down to. That is what "crunchy" words do. Miss smarty pants is treating her students like children. Your superiority complex needs to be knocked down a few notches ... Example of a REAL teacher - Leonard Bernstein. Go sample his "goodies."

[@scotthullinger4684]

Any music educator who says "crunchy-yummy" to describe music isn't worth her weight.

[@MariaFinkelmeier]

You’re right. My students and audiences really dislike when I’m relatable

[@scotthullinger4684]

@@MariaFinkelmeier - At least we agree with each other. No student should be talked down to. That is what "crunchy" words do. Miss smarty pants is treating her students like children. Your superiority complex needs to be knocked down a few notches ... Example of a REAL teacher - Leonard Bernstein. Go sample his "goodies."

[@apolace7242]

@@scotthullinger4684every good teacher I’ve had in comp talks like this. I’m going to one of the best conservatories in the entire world got a graduate degree.

[@scarf550]

@@scotthullinger4684 in my experience this is just how people who compose talk to each other, or any musician really.

[@scotthullinger4684]

@@apolace7242 - So did everybody else. But they don't say "crunchy-yummy" to describe music. Seriously, you've got one hell of an undeserved superiority complex.