B-17 Bomber's Ammo Belt "The Whole Nine Yards", NO!

Enclosed is a video discussing the phrase the “The whole nine yards” as pertains to the ammo belt length of a WWII heavy Bomber. Topics include:
1. Ammo crate belt lengths
2. Cartridges in a 9 yard ammo belt
3. Ammo Carried by the B-17 bomber per gun station
4. Ammo Carried by the B-24 bomber per gun station
5. Ammo Carried by the B-29 bomber per gun station
6. Secondary ammo belt considerations
7. Conclusion of the “Whole nine yards” as it pertains to the belt length of a WWII heavy bomber

[@johnwatson3948]

The expression “the whole nine yards” existed before WW2 - this and “the whole six yards” were used in the 1800’s, but the origin has never been determined for certain except that it means “everything, the whole lot”.

[@truthsayers8725]

a) im glad you mentioned the P-51. id never heard it referred to Bomber ammo allotment but fighter planes. b) i usually take these kind of things with a grain of salt. same as 'threshold' is the piece of wood holding straw inside the 1600's era homes. raining cats and dogs because the thatch roof got wet and the 'pets' who took shelter in the roof for warmth would slip and fall. bouquets were carried by brides 100s of years ago to mask body odor. beds that had rope suspensions that would loosen so 'sleep tight' came about etc etc... c) your math skills are boss! lol

[@jameslanz2117]

Learn something new every day. Great topic and great video. I was one of those people spreading bad information that it came from the ammunition belt in World War II aviation.

[@cyrillawless]

I was told this was the length of the belt for a British machine gun used in the trench’s during ww1. Nothing to do with US planes.

[@ypaulbrown]

heard something different but similar...US .30 CAL 250 rd belt was 9 yards

[@danmcdonald9117]

That's the story I heard too

[@scottyb68]

I always heard WW1 belt ammo, not WW2

[@dukecraig2402]

All myths. The earliest known use of the phrase The Whole 9 Yards is from a January 30th 1855 article in The New Albany Daily Ledger (New Albany Indiana) in an article called The Judges Big Shirt, "...I told her to get just enough to make 3 shirts, instead of making 3, she has put the whole 9 yards into one shirt!". There's also a documented use of it in an article dated from 1907. The Oxford English Dictionary credits it with being an American expression.

[@francescofissore161]

... great video(s), as usual. Thanx so much. Just one small detail - according to ''Index of Army Aeronautical Equipment'' (Volume Five, Armament Equipment, pag. 198 to 205) ammo quantity for each of the boxes in B-29s was 560 rounds.

[@701duran]

I've seen books that said that saying was from the 20s but either way it's a great myth about the B17

[@scottyb68]

I never heard that was related to aircraft or WW2, it was .30 cal WW1 machine gun in the trenches.

[@dukecraig2402]

Nope, the earliest use of it is from an article in The New Albany Daily Ledger (New Albany Indiana) dated January 30th 1855, long before anyone ever fired linked cartridges through a machine gun, there's also a documented use of it in 1907. And the Oxford English Dictionary credits it with being an American expression

[@pyro4squirrel]

Those are around 7 yards so also no.

[@HootOwl513]

Another theory is that US Regular troops in the pre-industrialized 19th Cent,ury, were issued with a pattern and bolts of uniform cloth -- 9 yards worth -- and had to find a seamstress or tailor to get their required uniforms made.

[@dukecraig2402]

It could have something to do with that, the earliest documented use of it is from January 30th 1855 in an article in The New Albany Daily Ledger (New Albany Indiana) called The Judges Big Shirt; "...I told her to get just enough to make 3 shirts, instead of making 3, she has put the whole 9 yards into one shirt!". So it might just go a little further back to when you're talking about.

[@jeffp6324]

I heard it used in reference to the tail gun of a British Lancaster. The rounds were hung along the interior fuselage. Cant't remember where, but it was a doco about the Lanc that referred to this as well. PPRuNe has some detail about fitting .50 calibre guns to Lance instead of .303's. The contributors talk in granular detail about the Lanc but the one talking of nine yards was prefaced by "I think".

[@MrKen-wy5dk]

I bought a belt of .50 BMG once at a gun show here in Texas. I never measured it or counted the rounds in it, though. That sucker was heavy,

[@lorrinbarth1969]

According to the net the quote first appeared in print in 1907.

[@dukecraig2402]

Earlier then that, the earliest know use of it in print is January 30th 1855 in The New Albany Daily Ledger (New Albany Indiana) in an article called The Judges Big Shirt, "...I told her to get just enough to make 3 shirts, instead of making 3, she has put the whole 9 yards into one shirt!" There is also a known documented use of it in 1907.

[@francescofissore161]

I've measured 33 linked cartridges, if belt is 'stretched' the length is 31.7'', almost 1" more than the described 30.75''. Of course length can vary slightly, according whether the linked rounds are more or less pushed against each other. This doesn't change the basic thing at all, in fact 9 yards wasn't the length of any ammo belts whatever the airplane type could be, even when speaking of fighters: belts for the P-38 guns (500 rounds each belt) were exactly 40 feet long. A standard belt for P-47 (425 rounds) was 33.5 feet long. Total length of belts for a P-47 with standard ammo load, almost 270 feet...

[@string-bag]

The number of yards of fabric in a kilt.

[@colosseumbuilders4768]

I had never heard "the whole nine yards" used with bombers; only fighers. This close to the 350 rounds of a P-47. And some P-47 pilots were known to use fewer rounds (e.g. Grabeski).

[@dirkverlinden2516]

👌🏼

[@nickdanger3802]

Chart with loadout per gun station.

[@chrisabraham8793]

I thought the whole 9 yards was the walk to an execution from the cell in prison.

[@billyponsonby]

Maybe it was Hollywood or a movie studio produced public propaganda film that got this into vernacular?

[@SoloRenegade]

in combat, nobody cares if it's Exactly 9yds. rounding is good enough

[@snakeplissken2148]

and even if so, firing 9yds of a belt would be totally useless, as he described it.

[@SoloRenegade]

​@@snakeplissken2148 uh.....maybe so, but sometimes the very act of defiance and pure rage and hatred one can unleash by "giving them the whole 9yds" has a hell of a psychological impact (positive for your guys negative for the enemy). I speak as someone who been in combat and who has let rip with the M2 .50cal for this very reason before. When the moment comes and it happens, it does work. you have to be putting rounds on target or Very near the target though, otherwise you're just pissing ammo away like a fool. But when your adrenaline is pumping, and time slows down, and you're hyper focused, you can lay it down like a madman and accurately. Also, some targets are simply tough and take lots of rounds to penetrate.

[@petethebastard]

Mate... You're specialised! Relax.... I always thought "the whole nine yards" was a ground reference to the Vickers gun! You are correct! Nothing to do with ....US Bombers.... Or yanks in general.... You adopted the phrase from the British! Here will be a flurry!

[@17cmmittlererminenwerfer81]

A belt of 500 rounds of .50 BMG, as normally carried for each of the MGs in a P-51 or P-47, just so happens to be 27 feet, or 9 yards.

[@johndanger8717]

He just showed other wise

[@atomicshadowman9143]

I love it when they don't turn on notifications and their hubris is on public display for eternity.

[@kurtschlarb9762]

Okay. So where did this come from?

[@atomicshadowman9143]

@@kurtschlarb9762 The first known use of the phrase as an idiom appears in The Mitchell Commercial, a newspaper in the small town of Mitchell, Indiana, in its May 2, 1907 edition: _This afternoon at __2:30__ will be called one of the baseball games that will be worth going a long way to see. The regular nine is going to play the business men as many innings as they can stand, but we can not promise the full nine yards._ From Wikipedia

[@kurtschlarb9762]

Hey Atomic Shadow Man. Thanks much for your answer!

[@FrancSchiphorst]

Looks like you have gone the whole nine yards debunking going the whole nine yards ;) "the most prominent etymological riddle of our time" of note regarding ammo belts "This theory is no longer considered viable, since the phrase predates World War I." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_whole_nine_yards