B-777 Fuel Dumping and Overweight Landing Considerations (Part II)

In light of Delta Airlines Flt 89's recent low altitude fuel jettison episode over LAX, it's time to clear up some misconceptions about fuel dumping from a B-777 (non-current) pilot's perspective.
LINKS:
Blancolirio Fuel Jettison Part I:
• Delta Flt#89 Fuel Jett...
Boeing Info Overweight Landings:
www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...
AvHerald:
avherald.com/h?article=4d1f4f9...
AgentJayZ on Compressor Stalls:
• Jet Tech: Compressor S...
Boeing Compressor Stall Training Video:
• Boeing Compressor Stal...
Patreon:
www.patreon.com/user?u=5295000
PayPal:
www.paypal.com/paypalme2/juan...
Theme: "Weightless"
Aram Bedrosian
www.arambedrosian.com

[@ddeininger5343]

KZbin keeps turning off notifications, almost every time I check in the bell is no longer selected for all notifications. any one else having the same problem?

[@QALibrary]

I had this issue - to fix it I had to go into my dashboard as reset the setting there for everything to work again - also youtube last year said 60% of the time notifications just do not work mainly because youtube/google sending out to much data at once etc

[@jenniferwhitewolf3784]

yes.. they are trying to kill smaller monetized channels by every means possible short of just killing channels... which they HAVE done to several non-leftist oriented political viewpoint providers.

[@terryboyer1342]

Yep. Noticing it more all the time. I read further down in the comments that Mentour has a vid on fuel dumping also. I've been subbed to him a long time but I got no notification. I checked and found that my sub was turned off. I didn't do this. Also lately I receive some but not all notifications from other channels. YT is really getting screwed up!

[@CMDRSweeper]

Just grab your welder and weld that notification button in! Problem solved :D

[@luiul1]

there are other platforms coming up. don't know about the regulations. but people need to stop complaining and leave youtube. it's really that simple.

[@sweepleader]

Juan, I saw your comment that you have concerns about your edits and breaks. Please do not worry about those, you do a great job with a fantastic amount of factual information in every video. I would be disappointed if you cut information in favor of a smoother delivery. Your edits are not a problem, your background and desire make this channel the best one on KZbin.

[@danmurphy1742]

Edits are no problem.

[@rayg9069]

Totally agree, I have noticed at times it's the pauses that give added meaning to what Juan is saying. When you can't can something in words, do it with a pause.

[@markam306]

All edits and cuts are completely fine with me as well. I barely notice them, and when I do Juan’s vibe is to review his notes and be correct. I.e. it comes across as a strength !! Plus Juan has that ‘real person’ conversing style, very easy to watch and understand the subject.

[@WillysPerformanceCycleCtr]

No need to change what you are doing Juan! Your delivery is perfect. I have always thought it showed your forethought and knowledge of the subject while willing to pause and think your way into the next comment. Excellent. Please don’t change anything!

[@paulazemeckis7835]

I find his pauses very helpful especially since I am not a pilot. They help me process what he is trying to communicate. It is nice to see people who deliberately choose their words when speaking. Clearly he cares about his comms to his fans! 😁

[@martybunyan12]

Juan, Mentour Pilot just did a vid on the fuel dump as well and gave a shout out your way and directed people to check out your channel. Very cool! Be prepared for some new subscribers. Have followed both of you for several years. You guys are definitely the "Go To" when it comes to commercial aviation. Would love to see you guys do a collab video sometime. Keep the great content coming. Love your channel!

[@blancolirio]

Great idea! Thanks Marty!

[@souocara38able]

It's good to see these guys referring viewers to each other!

[@napoleano2748]

@@blancolirio Yeah Mentour is in my list too, he's a 737 ng expert and has some really good information. Would be cool to see you guys do something together ;)

[@mooorecowbell4222]

Follow Mentour Pilot as well. Great shout out ....well deserved.

[@pnaylor666]

We are in a golden age of aviation education networking. Were not just facing a pilot shortage, its a skilled pilot shortage.

[@blancolirio]

clarification: The center fuel tank is the wing center section upon which the fuselage is mounted.

[@VegasHiRollers]

Maybe they dumped the fuel to convince all of the people saying that airliners run on compressed air instead of having real fuel onboard. See folks...it's raining jet fuel from the wing tips !!!

[@juanitamannn]

Just waiting for Mr. 10000 hour guy to comment from his moms basement.

[@mapesdhs597]

Juan, off-topic question, have you ever read, "Airframe", by Michael Crichton? I think you would find it interesting, especially how the media is portrayed. I'd like to send you a copy if possible; do you have a PO box or somesuch? I sent a copy to a figher pilot I know in South Africa and he very much enjoyed it. Pity it's never been made into a movie, though I doubt the current Hollywood machine could do it justice (though maybe its technical nature wouldn't translate so well to the big screen).

[@murphsmodels8853]

You were right in the video Juan. The center fuel tank passes through the fuselage and extends into the wings.

[@wim0104]

yup, like a pickup truck: a cab mounted on top of a stiff frame.

[@SueBobChicVid]

Not sure if you heard, but you got a shout-out from Mentor Pilot for this coverage.

[@blancolirio]

Yes! Thanks.

[@joem5110]

LOL, just watched it and saw Juan did part 2 and now I'm here. :)

[@keithpedersen3653]

You guys should start a consortium of aviation expert channels.

[@jenniferwhitewolf3784]

VAS and Juan and Mentor are on my alert list👍. Each offers a unique and important perspective.

[@leewood365]

@@keithpedersen3653 Along with Agent Jay Z.

[@robertedwards7841]

I am quite convinced that if you spent more time doing editing your channel it would not be as down to earth and informative as it is. When commentaries are too polished they become more like doctored news stories that are short of facts and substance. I am a novice and a huge fan of anything that fly's and I don't always understand everything you say but your efforts of putting everything into layman's terms without speculation and judgement is very much appreciated. Thank you for your time and your efforts. It is much appreciated.

[@davef.2811]

"...ask me how I know", have to appreciate your honesty, Juan LOL. Can you imagine trying to explain this event here if the plane in question was a 10 - tank DC-8, or a DC-7C?? Whew!! Nice work as always.

[@crocodiledondii]

oh yes...we all had a little chuckle over *that* comment.

[@alphasails2]

I could listen to your commentary for hours. You make it so easy to understand. Keep up the great work. Thanks for sharing. ❤️👍

[@dryan8377]

good idea. Imma make an audio track for like 8 hours to sleep to. He's definitely got the voice for this... Thanks for the idea!

[@timgallagher1041]

I DO listen to his commentary for hours :)

[@carolclmcm1214]

“Stay out of the national news.” Excellent advice for us in all endeavors, I think.

[@russlehman2070]

IME, it's generally not a good day when you make the local news either.

[@nhwilkinosn]

National news and NTSB investigations.

[@WillysPerformanceCycleCtr]

Beautiful Snow Storm!!! What a backdrop for the introduction to your report! Thanks Juan. Really appreciate your unbiased, factual reporting. We’re praying for your return to excellent health.

[@WillysPerformanceCycleCtr]

HiWetcam .... I fully understand! I live in Middle Tennessee, USA and this year we’ve had very little snow! I miss it too’

[@uralbob1]

Juan, there is noone on the internet that explains aircraft issues, procedures, and mechanics, etc. like you. When I heard about this fuel jettison, I came right to you as I knew you would help us understand. You provide a great service to we non-flying public. Thank you!

[@Moondoggy1941]

Wow it has been at least 3 years since I have been watching your channel. It has gone from drought to fires and floods. Thanks for taking everyone with you.

[@Truckee-td5ud]

Yet another great from the great Juan! Thank you for the update. Hope you and your family are well! Enjoy the beautiful snow. Until next time, see ya here.

[@mornecoetzee735]

Thanks for taking the time to shoot with the snow in the background. I live in Africa and never get to see snow. That scene was stunning ❄

[@AgentJayZ]

This is a great video. It de-mystified a lot. Thanks especially for the clear diagrams and walking us through them. Nobody better at explaining how things happen on a big airliner than an experienced pilot who flies the exact same aircraft!

[@ronaldkarp4035]

This is some of the most interesting content I've ever found on utube. Thanks for doing what you do !

[@tyrionlannister6769]

Juan...Thank You and Lt Pete for a comprehensive explanation; was able to keep on multi-tasking whilst listening to your description. Its appreciated...!

[@msavAC60]

Once again Juan, great work in getting us all some enlightening information relating to this incident in Parts I and II. I can't imagine that this crew will be able to provide any legitimate justification for their low altitude fuel dump when they themselves told ATC that their situation wasn't critical once they got the compressor stall under control. Certainly if it was a more dire situation requiring an immediate return, the crew must do whatever is necessary for everyone's safety including throwing the fuel dump guidelines out the window. I'd hate to be in charge of Delta's Public Relations for this one as it took place one day after it was announced that Delta was the Number 1 rated airline.

[@blancolirio]

Man, stuff happens quick!

[@flynnwhite8106]

You are the best "real" aviation information source on KZbin! Love you man!

[@carlmarch603]

Thank you for great coverage of this event. Hardest Lt. Pete “kablammo” landing I ever had as a passenger was a short SAS leg from Copenhagen to Stockholm on a DC-9 back in the late 80’s. There were a lot of gasps and even crying by passengers after “touchdown.” My uncle used to work for McDonnell-Douglas (space program) and I told him I was impressed with the over-engineering of the landing gear - it took a lot of abuse that day.

[@marcmcreynolds2827]

When a strut is inflated (with dry nitrogen) to the proper amount in temperate weather, but then the aircraft lands somewhere really cold and at a relatively high touchdown sink rate, the strut may actually bottom (metal on metal contact). Kablammo with a vengeance. So occasionally an airline will request the manufacturer to come up with strut inflation pressures which are adjusted for their extreme conditions, like -60 deg F into Moscow.

[@carlmarch603]

Marc McReynolds It was July and relatively warm for Stockholm. Nonetheless, I bet those struts had seen a lot of extreme conditions during their service on that aircraft...

[@clydeacor1911]

Thanks for all of the time and effort that you put in to bring us all of this non bias content! It's definitely refreshing when we get a video from you.

[@specforged5651]

I second the “Agent Jay” turbine videos. He may very well be the oddest duck you’ve ever come across, but if you want to learn more about turbine engines he’s the guy on KZbin to learn from. It’s actually quite comical too because he’s a different breed for sure. Love it!

[@rjeff753]

Another great informative and well thought out report. I have learned so much watching your reports and normally help point me in a good direction in furthering my knowledge of aviation. Thanks Juan.

[@AndrewScott83815]

Excellent video! Again! Great work! I was watching this video during a sit in Seattle and introduced about three other line guys to your channel! Cheers!

[@Zany4God]

Oh, thank you for this second vlog on the fuel dump incident. Always informative.

[@thompsonjerry3412]

Moral of the story, never take a dump without permission.

[@ronaldpiper4812]

And hopefully if you need to do it. Not RASHING into L.A . Take The spanking for it take it. And be thankful all safe

[@cratxn1]

Sierra Hotel...If it had only been over San Fran it would have mixed right in the homeless "dump" on the streets and no one would have noticed

[@jwb2814]

Thompson Jerry Now that was nice.

[@afcgeo882]

Or at least notify your controller when you do and tell them how it comes out.

[@jennydiazvigneault5548]

I just successfully completed a big dump too.

[@rogerneves7898]

Love your stuff Juan. Don't change a thing about the way you do it.

[@roblachman8919]

Hi Juan. Love your presentations just the way you do them. Love your weather bites as well. Love the snowy back drop at the start...your winter. It is mid summer here in Australia and we are Starting to get some cooler southerly fronts with rain to help put out the fires that are just part of our summer cycle. Best wishes.

[@raymondjones7489]

Juan....man you killed it...so awesomely informative...I saw someone in you comments mentioned mentor pilot...I didn't even read it..all I know is that as usual you killed it...this is why I consistently turn to you....thank you!!..take care with health!😊

[@chuckeberth4370]

Thanks for getting part 2 out so quickly. I take it you've seen or done a hard landing or two. I think we all have.

[@qcan8468]

I always liked the comment that the hard landings were the Navy trained pilots and the gentle landings were the Air Force trained pilots.

[@jsquared1013]

@@qcan8468 still with the old habit of trying to catch the arresting gear :D

[@vahtikoira2125]

As an A&P working on large commercial airliners, I've been marinated in JetA for nearly 30 years now so I find all this pearl clutching and claims of injury from being on the receiving end of a little fuel mist a little overblown. The worst part is smelling like fuel until you can clean up and change clothes but I don't think anyone is in danger of anything serious here. I wonder how many lawyers are smelling blood in the water though.

[@cassandrab4080]

Fuel dump? I thought the "smoke" that comes out of airplane wings was a mind-control chemical from the nefarious "Deep State" that no one knows anything about.

[@benshore7357]

Gloria Allred is all over it

[@jasonrichards5854]

so......................is it safe to say that as a child you were immersed in Jet A fuel?...........cause thats how it sounds to me.................i guess in your world, fully developed people and developing people have the same tolerances right?..............it was dispersed over ELEMENTARY schools..................................

[@jamesseward3769]

I love the smell of jet fuel or maybe its the smell of burnt JetA fuel !!! If someone made a cologne out of it I would be the first to buy it !!!

[@vahtikoira2125]

@@jamesseward3769Lol, I'd agree burned fuel smells like a successful flight is happening but unburned fuel smells like more work to fix a leak or problem is about to happen. JetA cologne seems like a stretch to me.🤔

[@danisbell6040]

Another excellent presentation, Juan. Very informative and I really appreciate and enjoy your channel!

[@danielslaven2828]

Thank you been waiting for you to post this . I'm not a pilot but a big fan who want's to thank you for helping people understand what going on without all technical bull 💩

[@brown-eyedman4040]

Nice snow. It was torrential rain in th Bay Area. You and Mentour Pilot are the places I go for aviation news/info. Nice shoutout to you from Mentour.

[@bobberceli6874]

Juan, Most excellent as always! And double thumbs up for Mentour to recommend your channel. Bob

[@artnickel1664]

I like your stressing “in the touchdown zone” and will forever remember the ditty “nothing is worth less than the altitude above or the runway behind” when getting my private ticket.

[@BillySugger1965]

Excellent review of the systems and standard procedures involved in this event. Thank you.

[@okflyer777]

Given something like a compressor stall on departure which didn't result in engine shut-down, my judgement would be to take it out to a safe dump area, sort things out and come back when good and ready. No need for a slam-dunk emergency return, unless that Rolls was in MUCH worse shape than we imagine. Plenty of runway for overweight landing - it would be a piece of cake (I've landed about 24000# overweight in the 777-200 and it was a non-event on SFO 28R). I'd bet this unannounced, low level fuel dump will result in an FAA investigation and a good chance for a serious violation on the part of this flight crew's actions. Really good discussion Juan, as always.

[@FutureSystem738]

Bill Wightman Right on the money- and your opinion agrees with mine. (I haven’t flown a 777, but have plenty of time in 767’s and 747’s.)

[@petec9686]

@@FutureSystem738 I've never even ridden in a 777. I am not a pilot. I've never even flown a video simulator. But I have a reasonable understanding of mechanical stuff. So, it would seem to me that when an engine stalls for an unknown reason, you should have concerns for the other engine. That being the case, would it not be prudent to put it down as quickly and safely as possible? Is it standard practice to say, "ahhhh, fagettaboutit! we got another one"? And park it out over the Pacific while they vent fuel until they are at an acceptable weight? Seems to me that a little bit of a Jet-A spritz is acceptable rather than risk total engine loss, regardless of its likelyhood.

[@davep9266]

24k over...pretty heavy, had the DL not dumped, they'd have been 70k heavier. Pretty big difference than 24 huh?

[@petec9686]

Bill, is a compressor stall something that happens much? Is there a way to immediately diagnose cause? Could it be FOD? My guess is that when it happens shortly after takeoff, FOD is a possibility, if not the likely cause. And if this is the case, isn't the other engine suspect as well? I have asked this question a few times, but haven't received a reply yet from a professional pilot. So, I will ask again. When an engine stalls during climbout, what are the possible causes? Seems to me that FOD or fuel contamination are at the top of the list. And if this is the case, is there a chance that the other engine may have sustained some damage that has not yet become apparent? The only explanation I can come up with the pilot's decision to put it back on the ground ASAP is that he did not have confidence in his remaining engine. He had to know there'd be repercussions for dumping where and when he did, but was more concerned with the possibility that he was gonna become a glider pilot shortly.

[@jasonrichards5854]

just curious..........how long was that aircraft taken out of the schedule for maintenance following that OW landing, and how much did it cost..........both in maintenance cost and lost revenue?

[@blackhawks81H]

Another great video Juan. I just found out from my uncle that he's flown with you before. Small world. Keep up the good work.

[@duckbow]

Juan -- your channel is growing like crazy! Great work, please keep it up. Always great commentary.

[@JeffCowan]

AgentJayZ's channel is amazing. So informative.

[@equaltothetaskaviation6440]

nice one mate, the conversation as to why is alive and well. guess only the flight crew know the answer to that one. as usual your take is clear, concise & thought provoking. even Mentour Pilot gave your channel a shout outso that just goes to show that you are a trusted opinion in the aviation community.

[@skunkjobb]

I think the airline should tell the public why this was done so we can skip all speculations.

[@tenpiloto]

I doubt that this situation would qualify for a "heat of battle episode". Looking forward to hearing what the crew had to say regarding fuel dump initiation.

[@cesarquintana9034]

Juan, Thank you for your great videos, full of facts. It's a pleasure .

[@777Outrigger]

I flew the B-777-200LR from LAX to SYD a lot in my years just before retirement. The numbers for the 200LR were 766,000 lbs Max Takeoff and 492,000 Max Landing Weight. If I lost an engine right after, or during takeoff, my plan was to come back to LAX as fast as possible and dump fuel most of the way back. So I would be dumping fuel below 5,000', probably at least down to 2,500' on downwind. In my briefing before take off I would tell the RP to stop the dumping on base leg if we forgot about it. My guestimate was that, in the time it took to fly outbound RWH from LAX, get stable, and turn around as soon as possible, go downwind, base, final, and land, I could dump about 60,000 lbs of fuel. We often took off near Max Takeoff Weight of 766,000 lbs on SYD flights, so my weight on landing would be near 700,000 lbs, well above the Max Landing Weight of 492,000 lbs. I never flew the L-1011 or the MD-11, so no ancestor worship from me. ..... So this could have been me. Thankfully it wasn't. And these guys did not say they didn't need to dump, but rather they didn't need to go to a designated area to dump. They needed to get on the ground fast, and get their weight down. The bad engine was still providing electric, hydraulic, and pneumatic, but not much thrust. Basically, to understand my plan. (1) Get on the ground fairly quickly (2) get rid of weight as fast as possible.... So, no-go to area to dump, and probably dumping below 3,000'.

[@drenk7]

A great report with excellent technical information. I hope you are close to regaining your medical 👍

[@peruseperusing5027]

Another great clip Juan! The findings/results of this investigation will be interesting to see. Hey Lt Pete................. Ka blammo!!!! :)

[@deandanielson8074]

Hi Juan, thank you for a clear, concise and accurate explanation for fuel dumping. You play a vital role in informing both the aviation community and the general public on aviation topics important to all. Again, thanks!! - Dean from Minnesota

[@blancolirio]

Thanks Dean!

[@georgebrewer5116]

Thanks for the update. Been out of maintenance for awhile. Passed on some bad info to some folks about fuel dumping. Now, I'll have a chance to apologize and recommend they watch your videos and those you recommended.

[@gravitymediapro]

I really enjoy and appreciate your videos, and learn a lot about an industry where I know very little. Thank you for your teaching efforts.

[@wranther]

Very informative video Juan as is your pattern. Noticed you received a kind shout out from Mentour Pilot on this same fuel dumping event. -Bob...

[@w4vy]

Very good video Juan. Always informative and as professional as ever. I look foward to your next video bro advanced thanks.

[@6058jeremysmith]

Thank you for explaining these procedures, I really appreciate you taking the time ...

[@mytmousemalibu]

Great coverage as always Juan! Thanks for throwing a plug for my friend AgentJayZ. Both of you guys are fantastic and do an excellent job at demonstrating your expertise and chopping it into nuggets of info anyone can understand! Im in the industry, I'm an A&P and active jet mechanic. I still love your content!

[@leebarnes655]

Stay out of the national news when you can. Very good advice had me laughing pretty good. The new measure of success, I've done pretty good for myself so far.

[@packer492]

Awesome video thank you for the information as usual. Your work is much appreciated

[@bradt390]

Love your Channel Juan, thank you for all your efforts.

[@AureliusR]

Oh wow, I just finished part 1 and then suddenly part 2 is upload. Hells yeah. New sub here!

[@ccserfas4629]

That's the "one objective"? LOL at that one. Great stuff Juan.

[@davidmorris1879]

Great explanation, and understanding of these requirements. Presented in a clear and professional way (Thumbs up)

[@brentjohnson6654]

Another great and informative video. Great job Juan

[@iknewbetter]

Great video and explains a lot of what went on. I am guessing somebody forgot they were dumping fuel. You do great work!!!!!

[@gordonegan3924]

And forgot to tell ATC that they were dumping fuel.

[@simonbrunner3062]

"A gentleman's name should appear in the newspaper only three times: When he's born, when he marries, and when he dies."

[@JasVmitten]

i like that

[@russiandrivers9986]

And when he stabs someone on the metro for looking at him the wrong way

[@max1brimhall]

Every time I have heard that quote, it stated that “ A ladies name should only appear in a newspaper ...”

[@dianefarley37]

@@max1brimhall well, it does hold true for women, as well.

[@michaelray7485]

I went and watched your recommended video on compressor stalls and it was very enlightening. Mr. Brown I would consider it an honor and a pleasure to meet you in person some day. That may never happen, but I will continue to watch your high quality videos. Keep up the good work and God bless!

[@andysimms1802]

Lt 'Kablam' Pete, he knows his onions! Great report once again Juan, thank you.

[@garymartin9777]

The exact language of the ATC inquiry as heard by the pilot might become relevant. I've read this was the question: “OK, so you don’t need to hold to dump fuel or anything like that?” and I've seen 'or dump' in place of 'to dump'. It makes a difference. The reply was "negative". The pilot might have been correct in that he didn't need to hold to dump fuel because he intended to dump on the way in. That wouldn't be good practice but note that FAA regs permit a pilot with a declared emergency to deviate from any reg at his/her discretion in order to get he plane safely landed.

[@rubbadubdub7857]

Lt. Pete looks pretty special. You are blessed.

[@UNITED38Heavy]

This is very interesting. What’s even more interesting is that the crew said they weren’t “critical” as far as emergencies go, so it could be fair to assume that they could’ve made the decision to dump fuel over the pacific at a safe altitude. But assuming isn’t good in any situation, I look forward to learning more as this situation progresses. Happy everyone was safe.

[@raymondhorvatin1050]

Thanks Juan for the detailed breifing

[@dheyes803]

Hello Juan, I just watched Petter from Mentour Pilot and he gave you and VAS Aviation some well deserved recognition. If you and he can collaborate on a video, that would be great. Even for those of us who are not pilots, these channels are very much appreciated. Safe skies to you.

[@yellowdogadventures]

yet another straightforward no bullshit explanation ! Thanks Juan.

[@art.demirjian9721]

Very educational video! It helps me to learn the enormous responsibility which pilots they have on their shoulders once they are in the air, also during emergency procedures with significantly damaging consequences for mishandling the proper action. It is not easy to be a pilot, for having very demanding pressure to do things the right way with "Zero Tolerance".

[@kenmunn4421]

Once again Juan, great job. You can teach ground school for me any time. This almost sounds like a sim session. During the debrief, I would have asked for a complete explanation on the dumping that took place. Back in the days when we used to video tape sim session, I think this one would have been a classic . Maybe a 3 hour debriefing. Also, like your use of the UMX Radian to demonstrate wing bending. Great back yard soaring machine. Keep the videos coming.

[@bw162]

Good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is one where you can use the plane again.

[@afcgeo882]

Unless others can’t walk away from your landing.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

Excellent explanation!

[@lilredcummins]

Juan, as usual, you are so clear and concise. You should be a paid consultant to the news media. Hope you get cleared for flight soon! We need more pilots like you in the air.

[@Swimfinz]

great report Juan, thank you for all you do!

[@JasVmitten]

so, compressor stall issues aside, they didn't need to dump, and when they did, 1) it didn't make any difference since they didn't have enough time to dump a sufficient amount, and 2) what they did manage to dump, unnecessarily, was done out of protocol

[@blancolirio]

yep.

[@tonydarrington6741]

@@blancolirio As a former FE, my take is that initially they were over water and at about 8000 ft, a pretty good position for a dump. Probably the 3rd pilot initiated the dump, assuming they would do at least a few turns in holding to clean up checklists and prepare for return. The captain initiated an immediate return and while trying to coordinate with atc, clean up checklists, and deal with the emergency they forgot the fuel was dumping. Oops.

[@JasVmitten]

@@tonydarrington6741 The CVR may be a lot more interesting than the communication with ATC

[@Garth2011]

Based on this video, these pilots should have simply landed heavy without dumping fuel. They didn't have a full passenger list so that itself lightened the weights some. However, I'd think the best practice would have been to maintain 8,000 ft and dump 20 minutes of fuel then land but they appeared to head for the airport in a rush leaving them with little time to manage their concerns.

[@Garth2011]

@@tonydarrington6741 Based on their response to ATC twice saying No, we do not need to dump fuel, I'd say they didn't begin that soon. My guess is they started to do so after they got to the right turn and 4,000 feet.

[@bobbymidnite7515]

Good tech, well presented. Thank you.

[@scottiniowa1]

Blancolirio World Headquarters - love it! Great job as always - thank you!!

[@scottregan4024]

Great video Juan. Fact based commentary is great. Keep up the good work.

[@richschindler8731]

Ive only had to dump fuel once. I was flying a BAC 1-11-400, (corporate) out of PSP when we had a hydraulic failure. We elected to stay within the valley rather than flying over to LAX. We climbed to about 8000 feet and were directed out towards the unpopulated / desert area before being allowed to dump fuel. We dumped the amount of fuel needed to bring us within the allowable landing weight. Came back and landed without incident. So to hear this story I have to wonder, who did what when??

[@mannypuerta5086]

The other consideration for whether to dump or not on a four engine airplane is the possibility of losing a second engine on the same side due to damage resulting from the adjacent failed engine. If one had to do a go around with two engines out, one would want to be at a weight that would safely permit that to happen. This was a concern on the older 747-100, especially on a hot day. That, perhaps, is part of the historic mentality you mentioned with regard to dumping to MLW. Of course, whether to dump or not is at the captain’s discretion based on the current issue, but whatever is determined better be the right course of action...unlike this Delta flight. It’s really hard to imagine any justification at this point for what that captain chose to do. Given that this was a 777 from LA to Shanghai, there would be one or two extra crew members onboard. I find it astounding that between the three or four of them that they dumped fuel where they did after being asked by ATC if fuel dump was required and replying, “no”.

[@divingfe]

Thank you ,Manny, for clarifying how a "real", HEAVY, airplane is operated, rather than these "light twins. :-)))). F/E, Mike Jaureguy- PAC.

[@tiredoldmechanic1791]

The 777 is a twin engine airplane. According to a quick search, it can fly for 3 hours and 1300 miles on one engine. I don't understand the urgency to land if only one engine had a problem and they were able to stop the compressor stall. The investigation should be interesting.

[@mannypuerta5086]

divingfe Hi, Mike. Long time, no see.

[@mannypuerta5086]

HiWetcam Not sure I understand the question.

[@saintchuck9857]

@@tiredoldmechanic1791 3 hours/1300 miles or until the other engine fails.

[@deemdoubleu]

This is why I like your channel. Facts not opinions.

[@davidwootton683]

Thankyou very much for this. What ever the if's and maybe's, we will find out sooner than later.

[@TomNimitz]

11:35 - I was walking around the room listening on headphones and thought I had stepped on my cat.

[@Kevin_747]

Some crew is going to get to sit at that long table where they are the only ones not supplied with a bottle of water. Glad I'm not that captain. Not sure what Delta's QRH looks like but all the ones I'm familiar with have a prompt to take you to the fuel jettison check list on engine shut down check list. Thanks for the update. Its been painful watching what the main stream media is saying. All the slip and fall lawyers are lining up.

[@fucqtheworld]

Well, it just wasn't "school kids" who got a Jet A shower. The jet dragged the stream for a couple miles. Do you want your car covered in that greasy stuff?

[@Kevin_747]

@@fucqtheworld I'm sure there was a strong odor of fuel but I doubt if anybody's hair got wet with jet fuel. It was more than a couple of miles. Are you with CNN?

[@nodttiurp]

@@Kevin_747 So, you're defending their dumping of the fuel?

[@Kevin_747]

@@nodttiurp No. Are you?

[@TyphoonVstrom]

It's kerosene. Well atomised as it was, it wouldn't have hung around more than a few minutes before evaporating completely. Those kids and parents would have far more exposure issues merely going to school every day under a flight path...

[@glenmartin2437]

Thank you. Things are more complicated than I thought.

[@johnpalgrave6998]

What a good commentator - so comprehensive and still succinct. ...

[@bigskyguy1611]

Doing math on camera. Brave guy! hahaha keep up the great work.

[@blancolirio]

"Public "Math"...lol

[@wizardmix]

Sad thing is, some kid playing flight sim and getting 33,606 views wouldn't be dealing with YT over content violation meanwhile we're getting more objective facts here than all of the media put together x100.

[@jeffshort6766]

Your insight is so cool. Appreciate what you do!

[@p1epoppa]

Really admire this brother's style of explanation

[@henrys.6864]

I like the old F-111 "dump and burn". There's video on that at airshows here on yt. Aussies did it a lot at their airshows.

[@suspicionofdeceit]

Henry Sanchez Imagine a commercial aircraft doing that on the final.

[@noshsreqd]

I was just pondering that very idea, would be a very effective and logical way to eliminate the dispersal concerns of fuel jettison especially in a scenario such as this one. Would certainly look spectacular although scary for passengers and ground witnesses who didn't understand what was happening. I'm sure it could be possible with the necessary ignition apparatus though it would probably come down to the cost of such a system that would determine the viability.

[@ReflectedMiles]

Juan, i think one of the more significant concerns here may come from the ATC side in not being advised of the fuel dumping, and even being told "no" when they asked about it. not just because of fuel reaching the ground or as a communications issue but because there is a legal change in requirements for them, particularly being in approach-control airspace. 7110.65 Ch. 9 Sec. 4, 9-4-4 specifies that separation criteria from an aircraft dumping fuel changes to 1,000 feet above, 2,000 feet below, or 5 miles radar / laterally, and even VFR aircraft must be kept at least 5 miles away. ATC is also required to broadcast to other aircraft that dumping is in progress. It's second-nature for a controller to give an emergency aircraft a wider berth anyway, but if the investigation discovers a violation of those separation criteria in the downwind to 25R or wherever during this event, that will open another can of worms where the crew is basically responsible for causing a separation error with the failure to report the dumping.

[@shenandoahhills7263]

In an emergency the Captain has fairly wide latitude to make judgments as to the safety of his aircraft and crew. Fortunately no one on the ground was seriously injured. You will note in the pictures of the fuel being dumped that the fuel almost immediately starts to vaporize as it is coming out of the dump nozzles. AT 2500 feet agl the fuel will not likely totally dissipate prior to reaching the surface, but will be more like a fine mist. Reading the news reports you would think that the aircraft was pouring a liquid stream on the ground. The first priority is getting the aircraft, crew, and passengers safely on the ground. Mission accomplished!

[@nodttiurp]

@@shenandoahhills7263 Why would the safety of the aircraft and crew be in danger? How would he know that "no one on the ground was seriously injured?

[@shenandoahhills7263]

@@nodttiurp We don't know the full extent of the emergency, or why the Captain's concern was to return for landing expeditiously. There was another incident a while back where an El-Al Boeing 747 cargo jet lost two engines shortly after take off. The Captain decided to proceed out over a lake to dump fuel prior to returning to land. After dumping their fuel they did not make it back to the airport, killing over 100 people on the ground. In this situation, the crew likely was concerned that the engine malfunction might have not been isolated to the one engine, as in the case of fuel contamination. There have been cases such as Eastern Airlines flight 855 out of Miami, where one engine after another on a Lockheed L1011 lost all 3 engines. Fortunately they were able to restart one engine and barely made it back to the airport. This is not the time to screw around, get the aircraft back on the ground safely, if you have to answer a few questions, so be it, but everyone was safe to live another day.

[@ericlopkoff]

Reflected Miles FAR 91.3 does not relieve the pilot from gross negligence.

[@davidchamberlain4861]

@@shenandoahhills7263 Then why dump at all? It was apparent from the first and IMO most significant part of this video that it wasn't necessary.

[@leanderfernandes2339]

Joined your Channel as recommended by Mentour in his video. Very nice explanation. I would assume subscriber increase in these few days. All the best and we are here to support.

[@debbz575]

Hi Juan good to see more snow. I was up there on new years and there wasn’t enough snow for the kings beach snow park.

[@poisonousnut]

can you give us a video on your scariest landing or flight where you were in the cockpit?

[@murphsmodels8853]

My theory on why they dumped: They requested the longest runway (25R) to land on so they could land without dumping. After getting lower in altitude and closer to the airport, they got switched to another controller who started talking about runway 25L which is a lot shorter. Possibly they thought they were being sent to the shorter runway, and were too heavy to stop in time, so initiated a fuel dump to get as much weight off as possible. By the time the controller corrected himself and gave them the correct runway, it was too late to stop dumping.

[@molarrr]

Murph's Models yea I like that theory. A lot of people don’t understand that flying and landing comes first then navigating to the best place of landing is second and way way way way behind all of that is talking to ATC. In the event of a emergency as a pilot you don’t need any go ahead from ATC to do anything. You do whatever you have to do to not crash and then tell ATC what you did. So when they didn’t need to dump maybe something changed then they had to and didn’t have enough time to ask first.

[@ellisjames7192]

How would it be "too late"? They could have aborted the landing and done a "go around" Was that possible?

[@cool2180]

I agree with your assessment. In part1 he brought up this issue of going thorough more than one controller at lax explaining everything all over again and that is what probably got the pilots messed up while dealing with an emergency. I know people criticizing the pilots but fuel being sprayed on some people heads is better than a plane crashing down on their heads or crashing while landing

[@Tomec86]

While I can kind of see this, isn't part of the whole "declaring an emergency" thing basically "hey we need THIS or we ded jim"? So just because the controller said 25L vs 25R couldn't they just say "umm, we need right." I mean they even basically do this earlier when they were still running checklists when ATC wanted them to turn into the final (or something) and they said no. They may have had to have a go around or similar at worse, and while I can understand the want to get down NOW by all accounts everything was under control, airplane flyable, etc so until we learned that something made it a case of "lets get down NOW" it just seems to be a huge "what!?" moment.

[@molarrr]

Ellis James go around heavy with 1 engine inop is hard even in a small GA aircraft. I don’t know about a heavy jet but I bet it’s tough.

[@bentsignpost]

Excellent, informative video as always.