B&M Invert Vs Vekoma SLC comparison.

[@walterandclaude]

One of my favorite of your videos! As soon as you made the C shape with your hand, I immediately understood how B&M bends their track. Simple but brilliant.

[@jacobliford]

That mic stand is sick. Very creative use of a crescent wrench.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@jacobliford thanks

[@timk987]

I like the comparison video. Feel like I'm learning twice as much!

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@timk987 that’s good!

[@vrryan6]

That intro is amazing. also RIP Kingda Ka

[@EveryoneIsFamily]

Extremely informative!! The comparison format is very helpful!

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@EveryoneIsFamily thank you! I thought I’d give it a shot!

[@dannyj.246]

Ive always noticed the gap in the wheels on vekoma slc and womdered why and this video explains it now !

[@Dave-K-Notts]

One is butter smooth and the other is rough as F**k. In a nutshell.

[@forzaguy1252]

Someone hasn’t been on noreaster

[@TheFringes.]

​@@forzaguy1252 After major refurb and redesigned trains and restraints. It took Vekoma 30 years to get the comfort that B&M had from Day 1?

[@DAcubsfan2]

Thanks for the cool video! Six Flags Great America being my home park and having Batman the original Invert that essentially skyrocketed B&M in this industry is such a flex. They keep it in such great shape. Vekoma's take on the model is interesting too because of all the assets they had from the Arrow days, although I think it is clear to see which design withstood the test of time. Also your graphic examples are getting better lol no more cardboard.

[@TheFringes.]

SFGAm's Batman can get kinda rough in through the corkscrews if you're sitting towards the back. I went to SFStL once in 2017 or 2018 and rode their Batman clone. Yes, it's quite a lot newer than the original, but man was it still smooth. Theming and location wasn't nearly as good though.

[@Danrarbc]

@@TheFringes. St Louis really let their theming go. The police car is gone, the ‘park’ area hasn’t been maintained and they’ve even removed the fountains and things that dressed it up. They’ve even removed the ‘trash’ from the area that’s supposed to have it. It’s crazy how much they don’t care about that stuff. The St. Louis install is actually only 3 years newer though.

[@sumguy8]

Decelerate is not only correct, but shorter than deaccelerate (not a word). Love the video as always!

[@dihedraldesign7978]

The Great Bear (Hershey) was my first invert, and I was hooked since it opened in 98. My favorite type of coaster…a wait for the front is a must! Fascinating details….I suppose, like most things, you get what you pay for. Thanks as always for sharing.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@dihedraldesign7978 that’s a good coaster

[@haunter_1845]

Front row on Great Bear at night is my favorite.

[@davidhardman3353]

Awesome video, was great to find out the differences

[@LTCoasters]

Although those B&M brakes are the most brutally efficient in the business. They hurt so much when they need to stop and hold on the first set after the eddys like Valravn.

[@SkeledroMan]

Question about that U shaped old vekoma/arrow track. Why do you think no manufacturers use a version of that style any more? It seems like it comes with some very clear advantages that would be useful in some situations. For example, a sitdown coaster with that style of rail has the passenger sitting partially inside the rail. This lowers the distance from the bottom of the rail to the top of the clearance envelope. So for coasters inside show buildings, like you see at universal or disney e.g. paris space mountain, it lets you fit a longer track with more theming into less space. There's also the vehicle dynamics advantage of moving parts of the train below the rail level. It moves more of the weight of the train below the rail line, so the centre of mass of the train ends up closer to the centre of the rails than on any non-RMC modern track style. It also brings the heartline closer to the centre of the rails, so there's less of a yaw error when the track does a roll. Compare an old togo pipeline coaster roll to a modern high floor intamin if you want to see that difference. Given all these advantages, what is stopping people from buying an updated version of this rail style? Does it use too much steel per metre? Do the supports end up costing more because the ride can't do long unsupported spans like modern rails? It seems like big parks like Disney or Universal, with all the money they have, wouldn't care that much about these issues. This track style is also the most natural to choose for high thrill indoor coasters. Yet we haven't seen any new indoor coasters with this track style since Paris space mountain in 1995. The only ones still going with this track style are Chance with the GTX, and even though they have proved that they're a good option for regional parks, not many are buying them.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@SkeledroMan a lot of engineers are very particular about how many pieces go into the track. The less the better, less weight,less steel,less welding, less NDT, less deflection. Those must outweigh the old style track.

[@paw1dawg]

But Sir..... this is a Wendys

[@spentron1]

Not just cost but availability. Vekoma pumped them out and weren't picky. Back when many of the SLCs were built especially.

[@IanSokolnik]

19:24 When you were talking about how loud each lift hill is Under B&M Invert you accidentally put in “Quite” instead of “Quiet.” So it says “Quite lift” lol. You could just fix it to say “B&M has quite the lift” and that would work too. 😂

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@IanSokolnik haha! My dyslexia is real! Thanks!

[@timk987]

@@ryantheridemechanic haha, that must be why at the start of the video the Vekoma info appears on the right and B&M is on the left and your point to Vekoma while referencing B&M. Glad to see you got it worked out pretty quickly! Great Stuff!

[@rollerdesigns1980]

Love this comparo Ryan. It's interesting the SLC uses the original, standard Arrow track mounted upside down. What's also curious to me is how Arrow suspendeds use outside guide wheels and a narrower track gauge without the wide rail ties. Arrow suspended track is closer (conceptually) to the B&M backbone. Wonder why Vekoma didn't bsse the SLC on Arrow's suspended track design vs the traditional sit down track.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@rollerdesigns1980 that’s a good question. I know the inverted arrows were a nightmare design wise so maybe they wanted to distance themselves from it.

[@rollerdesigns1980]

@@ryantheridemechanic Wonder if the gauge was too narrow for the loads given the weight of the coaches. Or maybe, as you said, it was a cost thing for Vekoma. Tons of money to engineer and manufacture a different style of track. Keep up the great work. Really appreciate and enjoy these videos.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@rollerdesigns1980 thank you so much! Glad to hear the content is enjoyed.

[@SkeledroMan]

From what i heard, the shocks on the vekoma were just there to get around b&m's patents

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@SkeledroMan ha! Interesting. S

[@plighting_engineerd]

Whoa, the editing is a big step up!

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@plighting_engineerd haha! Thanks!

[@oldschoolsteve5116]

Love the intro!

[@jamesf7602]

Next up::: Do the Sol Spin Ride failure at Knotts Berry Farm. Had to Manually bring the Ride to the Home position. Yesterday.

[@0z3r0]

And now i know why the SLC's are so silent on the lifthills

[@egonvirmann9467]

Maybe a dumb question but what are pilots or tails, respectively, doing?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

they are generally used for the train to connect to. most trains are trailer hitch style, well the trailer hitch needs a truck to hitch to, so the zero coach is the truck.

[@egonvirmann9467]

@ryantheridemechanic Thank you!

[@IMWBMEGJCC]

SLC’s are better, but only if it’s great nor’easter

[@mamarley]

At least one B&M invert, Alpengeist, does have a pilot coach without seats.

[@DougYeager-i8b]

To the average park, how long does it take for them to recoup the money they spent on a new ride? In one year or longer?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@DougYeager-i8b normally they are projected at 5 years.

[@markvolpe2305]

Are the new trains that parks are installing on their old SLC coasters like Professor Screamors @ SFA, Great Nor'easter @ Morey's Pier, Joker @ SFNE, and Mind Eraser @ SFDL, any better than the old trains?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@markvolpe2305 the upgraded trains are much much better.

[@alaeriia01]

Absolutely. With the new vest restraints, headbanging is essentially eliminated; the ride will still oof you around a bit (it _is_ still an SLC) but the experience is more like a CCI wooden coaster rather than the bone hurting juice that the old SLC trains are known for.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@alaeriia01 awesome! My park didn’t want to invest in the upgrade but we were begging them to.

[@markvolpe2305]

@ryantheridemechanic my home park Darien Lake is supposed to reprofle Mind Eraser, but the entire coaster was repainted before the end of the season with no new track in sight. Last year, the Boomerang got 3 new sections of track, do you think Vekoma used the modern method of bending the rails?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@ their methods have improved for sure. Most of the SLc were made a long time ago under old track. But the newer stuff also has a problem but I think this is due to loose tolerance. If they tighten the tolerance up that also brings the cost up to a B&M.

[@porcelainthunder2213]

It’s not even a competition. If it was one of the new Vekomas, then you might have a fight.

[@aldoparise1224]

I wonder why the b&m inverted Alpengeist at Busch Gardens Williamsburg has a zero car at the front of the train.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@aldoparise1224 it was one of the first B&m so they were still running the intamin style design. My guess anyway.

[@aldoparise1224]

@@ryantheridemechanic Alpengeist opened in 1997, five years after the first b&m inverted opened. The b&m inverts that were built before Alpengeist do not have a zero car. Actually, I think Alpengeist is the only inverted with a zero car

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@ hmmm don’t know then. I know their first ones had the zero. But if it was that late (I’m not good with dates) then must be another reason. Someone will probably add to this.

[@bjoe385]

​@ryantheridemechanic I can't confirm completely, but I remember reading somewhere that there's additional weight in the zero car.

[@jackschissler255]

The trains feature a zero car at the front of the train which contains 680 kg (1,499 lb) of weight which allows the trains to complete larger elements.

[@kmslacrosse43]

What happened with Banshee and its braking incident?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@kmslacrosse43 not sure I haven’t followed up sense I did the video.

[@LTCoasters]

Is this really a comparison? Raptor is my first big coaster. B&M all the way.

[@jalenpadilla7744]

It’s not a battle of the best, it’s clearly an analysis of the train and mechanical equipment and the pros and cons of each system. If you actually watch the video it might give you some insight as to WHY raptor is a better ride… vekoma might have had really rough rides before but they have certainly caught up in terms of durability and comfort with their new stuff by the looks of it

[@LTCoasters]

@jalenpadilla7744 He hit on the finer points but many of the (B&M points) I learned in his video on the B&M shake as he kind of covered Inverts as well. Yes, I replied before I watched it but after I did I still agree with my statement. I'm looking forward to enjoying new Vekoma tech next summer.

[@Ellie-vc1bl]

Honestly, i never knew how close the prices were between a vekoma slc and a b&m. I thought the vekoma would cost maybe $2.50 plus a chocolate bar based on how torturous they are. Parks bought a vekoma over a $2 million saving? 😭

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@Ellie-vc1bl that’s the sticker price. Generally they’re cheaper to install as they come with more stuff than the B&m does.

[@Ellie-vc1bl]

@@ryantheridemechanic So is the SLC generally cheaper over its lifetime as well due to cheaper parts? Or very similar because of the more maintainance needed on things such as brakes compared to B&M

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@ still cheaper over the lifetime. You need more parts and service but they are cheaper. The B&M come out ahead as they need less overall maintenance. I’d take less work over cheaper work any day.

[@rudolfpast9243]

Where does the weight come from? Alpinabahn has 600 tons, Olympialooping 900 tons. How has a B&M inverted 289000 tons?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@rudolfpast9243 oh just made it up for the intro. Just wanted something that sounded good. Not a fact.

[@antoineosburn8626]

May I ask why do trains have zero cars?

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@antoineosburn8626 trailer hitch style joints need the truck to attach to. So until B&m mast the zero into a coach it was by itself. Like most old Vekoma and intamin.

[@michaezell4607]

The constant interruptions by screwtube to force advertising on videos makes longer video content effectively unwatchable when the videos are constantly being interrupted every tw minutes to essentially repeat the same scam advertisement.

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@michaezell4607 I upgraded to premium for travel. No commercials and I can download videos for flights! So far it’s totally worth the money.

[@jalenpadilla7744]

You can pay them money to not show you other companies.

[@Dave-K-Notts]

If you’re not accelerating as fast as you were, are you slowing down.

[@endercoasters325]

FIRST!!!

[@ryantheridemechanic]

Chicken dinner!

[@dwhitman12341]

Did I hear you say deaccelerate? hahaha Just giving you a hard time

[@ryantheridemechanic]

@@dwhitman12341 I say dumb things haha

[@chuck4714]

Bnmcm

[@4everpee]

SLC uses a smaller motor I think. Just but listening to it. SLC brakes are locomotive engine they way they operated. Vekoma track bending process is very bad. B&M uses 3D bending machines. Vekoma uses 2D machines and they were bending the otherway way with heat and eye. I saw that in a documentary and it shocked me. Vekoma bending bending method couldn't be done uniformely whithout small flat spots all along the the track work.

[@Danrarbc]

Vekoma updated their manufacturing more than a decade ago. They now use the same bending machines that B&M does so the rails no longer have the issues the old ones do. The last couple of SLCs they built are way smoother than the others and the brand new track built for Nor’Easter is GLASS SMOOTH.

[@wifexxx]

0:50 I'll do some stuff downstairs😂😂🤟