Babylon 5 - Ivanova: Death Incarnate (Season 4, Episode 19 - Between the Darkness and the Light)

[@CrazyIvanovich1]

People who think this delivery is bad don’t get her character. She spent her entire life suppressing emotion because it could give away her latent ability. She started out with the solemn vow that she’d climb the ranks based on total steadfast excellence and she DID. The series shows how that breaks down. First with her dads death then Talia and then Marcus. To this point where she inside wants to scream but the internal controls are fighting every word. That’s why this is so cool. It’s the breaking point. “Who is this?” “Who am I?” Back to the Vorlon question. And she lets go. It’s pure emotion adrenaline pouring out like a waterfall and it’s all she can do to keep words together because she HAS TO. she’s the commander of the white star fleet here. She can’t stumble. She can’t crack her voice. So she says very plainly and very slowly that these aggressors are about to die. And she pushes all of that resistance straight to her face. It’s one of the most human scenes in this show that’s already full of so many

[@annertman7762]

I thought she was perfect.

[@davidbrouwers7309]

People who think this is bad don't get B5 period.

[@ernestotorres247]

I agree. This was the most moving speech I have ever heard... I am death incarnate ....was amazing

[@willowfrog33]

This may be my absolute favorite scene ever.

[@samsung3254]

@@willowfrog33 @Hem A'royd For myself, it's a tie with Delenn's confrontation. The same chills!

[@allynflinchbaugh4570]

THIS, and when Delenn shows up with the White Stars and tells the Earth Force ships that Babylon 5 is under her protection... chills.

[@jerrytroy2677]

Amen

[@Zaluskowsky]

i just joined from that clip (refreshing 10x or more hehe)

[@schumi9xwdc]

This scene was slightly better.

[@NBGEEKS]

Oh, we have the same tastes. Love both of those. Delenn and Ivonna were bad ass chicks. .

[@davefb]

@@Zaluskowsky haha same :D

[@aethertech]

God - "Look, I don't remember sending anyone, but if Ivonava says I sent her, then I sent her!"

[@kathleencandelaria4106]

Besides God or not I ain't arguing with Ivana.

[@tuchehstone]

"I am Death incarnate and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." *Shudder*

[@phillipbates9587]

Good quote

[@IAmTheRealBill]

It’s the way she says “ever” in there that does it, IMO.

[@snajvar84]

Still give me goosebumps hearing her say that. I watched this show as a kid with my mom. This is what got me into liking syfi shows and movies!

[@shalesderby]

God sent her? Ivanova IS God! (Only kidding about that last bit, no offence) :)

[@soylentteal]

My favorite Ivanova line: “You are going to resist, I hope.”

[@DewayneClark]

My fave Ivanova line is "No boom today, then boom tomorrow. Always boom tomorrow."

[@DieyoungDiefast]

Ivanova's take on Delenn's 'If you value your lives, be somewhere else' speech :)

[@travcollier]

From the moment she saw them, Ivanova had decided she was going to kill those ships or die trying. So, a bit like Delenn's speech, but also sort of the opposite.

[@thegrimmretails3777]

@@travcollier and if it wasn't for Marcus's sacrifice she would have done both.

[@419Films]

That speech always gives me chills.

[@lordtutinean90]

Of course... I TRAINED her‼️‼️‼️🤨😂

[@EtzEchad]

I would not want to hear that from someone who was about to attack. It would make me ... nervous.

[@crazedvole]

I never liked that speech. It went on for too long. Should have been shorter. "I am Commander Susan Ivanova. I am here to kick your ass back to Earth. I am the last thing you are going to see. God sent me." Something like that would have been cooler. Also as powerful as the white stars are, they don't have that " uh oh" to them when they fire. Imagine Ivanova giving her speech but having the fire control of the Excalibur (Crusade) or the Wave Motion gun (Space Battleship Yamato) or the SDF-1 (Macross/Robotech) She presses the button on one of those ships and bits of Earthforce/Shadow hybrids come drifting back to Earth orbit a few thousand years later. But that is just my 2 cents

[@ianmoseley9910]

crazedvole you version would trivialise it

[@danielbeck2739]

It is among the greats that's for sure. Between that and my other personal favorite, the Babylon 5 mantra. For those who've watched the series you know what I'm referring to.

[@dougc190]

Who said there were never any strong women and TV shows. Ivana and Delen should be the posters for strong women in shows

[@OOTurok]

SJWs never watch shows or movies like this... so there's no way for them to have known.

[@richardthomas5362]

This show was great in the strong women department because the female characters were very strong WITHOUT nerfing the male leads.

[@Shadowkey392]

And Captain Janeway.

[@-M0LE]

Doug C unfortunately the media and parents seem to want young women to grow up and be like the Kardashians

[@kirkdarling4120]

@Chomag That's why Alien, Terminator, B-5 (those earlier strong-woman movies) and even the latest offerings such as The Expanse are ignored. They present strong women, but they do not present the necessary ideology along with them. The truth is, science fiction fans have always, since the 1927 movie Metropolis, accepted women as strong as writers, editors, and producers have been willing to provide. Science fiction fans have never rejected strong female characters in good stories.

[@PackerBronco]

Earth Alliance captain after hearing Ivanova's speech: "Good thing I wore the brown pants today ..."

[@jamieolberding7731]

Yep. He be even more terrified if a fleet of Klingon Vessels decloaked right in front of him.

[@Vasun05]

He actually said hope you brought your brown pants in an anime if I recall

[@jamieolberding7731]

@@Vasun05 Okay.

[@Vasun05]

@@jamieolberding7731 Yup Richard Epicar has a distinct but awesome voice

[@thehellyousay]

Woulda thought it woulda been more like, "Dammit, mom made me wear clean underwear..."

[@joesycamore2899]

Ivanova is yet another reason B5 is considered the greatest science fiction show of all. No stock characters and real character arcs

[@scurvofpcp]

B5 and DS9 are the two shows of the 90's that set the standard for character depth.

[@Mxyzptlksac]

Each character was written with a backstory, their introduction and, just in case, their exit from the show with who would replace them.

[@biocapsule7311]

Her entire backstory was one of my favorite... she represents the 'ones who are left behind', living to see those she loved past before her.

[@adamcarreras-neal4697]

@@scurvofpcp DS9, Paramount ripping of JMS

[@scurvofpcp]

@@adamcarreras-neal4697 Rip off or not, they did a good job with it.

[@kevincaruthers5412]

"I am Death Incarnate... God sent me." Love this!

[@trsniffy]

"Who am I?"...literal "oh crap" chills ran down my spine when Susan said that.... Also, when she says, "I am Death Incarnate", the tech behind her looks up with the same oh crap.

[@snajvar84]

"Who am I?" Me as a kid goosebumps ran down my body and in my head "Ooo they done messed up!" K had the biggest crush on her when I was a kid. 😆

[@josefhollenbauer1043]

Yes ... She's. Really. PISSED!

[@howardbeatman2820]

And when she says, "God sent me.", the tech looks at her again with his mouth open in shock.

[@georgejcox9241]

To anyone who not A bad guy "RUNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!" If you are A bad guy bye bye

[@alienlife7754]

One thing I liked about B5 was that Earth wasn’t a major player in the galaxy like in Star Trek. Earth is just another planet with many problems.

[@shitbeausaysofficial]

It is still a major power though in the show?

[@sandal_thong8631]

I think they had to prove themselves to other races, like in the Dilgar war and Operation Sudden Death led by General Franklin to put down a rebellion in the Sh'lassen Triumvirate.

[@greanstreak04]

Night will fall and drown the sun When Ivanova goes to war Friendship dies and true love lies Night will fall and the dark will rise When Ivanova goes to war Demons run, but count the cost The battle's won, but the Shadows lost When Ivanova goes to war...

[@seanrobert9661]

Yes.....

[@greanstreak04]

@@seanrobert9661 did you get the reference???

[@seanrobert9661]

Wibly wobly , Sinclair was lucky he was her CO for screwing with her at breakfast , but then Markus went and got her a REAL breakfast wanted more and gave all.

[@greanstreak04]

@@seanrobert9661 timey wimey...

[@cjhooversd]

"Today is not the day to find out why I have so many rules."

[@FullmetalCowboy]

When I first saw this, I was like "Oooooooooooh shit!". I had a dumb wide open smile and when she fired, I went "Yeah!!!". This is hands down my favorite Ivanova scene. How do you top "Ivanova is God"? Answer : "I am Death Incarnate". Oh Great Maker, what a badass 😃

[@alwoodel8900]

Only Delenn...." If you value your lives be somewhere else".

[@leslieshafer6343]

@@alwoodel8900 The speeches are scary in different ways. Susan's is full of righteous fury & Delenn's is so matter of fact it's chilling.

[@Hyperion5182]

@DOUG HEINS Boom Tomorrow.

[@RobertWilke]

@@Hyperion5182 Always BOOM Tomorrow

[@themandownthehall]

@@leslieshafer6343 absolutely. Delenn's was just a cold, I'm going to kill you especially when she says "only one earth commander has ever survived battle with the Minbari fleet. He is behind me, you are in front of me..." At the point in the episode it was just so badass.. Just like Susan's in the above clip

[@mrspidey80]

And this, my friends, is why you never fly through exploding ships, no matter how cool it might look.

[@ThatLurieGuy]

In this case, it was the choice of ship. White Stars aren’t top of the line. She should have gone with a Vorlon transport. Isn’t your life worth an additional thousand years of technological development? Contact your local Vorlon vessel sales rep to find out more about their complete range of organic, sentient craft. Vorlon: The ship that loves you back. (Beat that, Subaru!)

[@FFGuy-eu7hr]

Or get the energy shields the ThirdSpace Aliens had.

[@carlousmagus5387]

The Defiant did.....

[@Jokie155]

This is why I dislike the final scene of Endgame. It's a fantastic episode through and through, then ends with an abysmally cheesy 'will he make it?' moment of Sheridan's completely unnecessary final charge. And to top it off, they draw out and milk that explosion way longer than they need to, and even include one last whisper-shout 'John!' from Delenn.

[@Petrosman]

@@Jokie155 unnecessary final charge? Apollo was a Deus ex machina, Sheridan and the Agamemnon should have been destroyed in the ram. Yes, the last moments where the Agamemnon almost explodes but it beautifully comes through the explosion is a bit cheesy, but it is a very cool moment and it's the end of the series's arc (JMS did not believe he would get a 5th season, so he wrapped everything up in season 4).

[@joehealy6376]

This is good. My favorite bad ass was Vir and the wave. When your sitting in the command chair of a White Star that can back up a whole lot. Vir waving to Morden, knowing the power he wields and doing this sheer moral character, no army, no ship, nothing at all. That is strength and ultimate bad ass. The fact he is the only one who got what he wanted when asked by Morden is just so amazing.

[@davesand8575]

Wow, never realized that until just now. That Vir was the only one who got what he wanted. And he didn't even have to compromise his moral center to achieve it. There's an application in real life, hopefully.

[@Scott-qq9jd]

I disagree. Everyone got what they wanted from Morden, and discovered it wasn't all they'd hoped. The Centauri were restored to glory like Londo wanted. The Narn saw the Centauri suffer, as G'kar wanted. And Vir got to see Morden's severed head. But all discovered that getting your wish often comes with terrible suffering. Londo saw the Centauri become butchers enthralled to the Shadows and Drakh. G'kar saw his people suffer another genocide. And Vir watched as Londo was forced to become a puppet of the Drakh. They all got their wishes.

[@DeltaPi314]

"TV shows have a lack of strong women" No. You've been watching the wrong shows. But this is the thing, good shows and media aren't about characters, it is about how they interact with other characters and the world they live in (this is what B5 got spot on). And this is what most modern writers get wrong, they focus too much on writing a stereotypical strong characters (of whatever shape or form) and forget that there is an entire world for these characters to live in. The world building is thrown out of the window just to put a tick on a criteria list of what is in at the moment. And no... world building isn't just throwing obstacles and challenges for the character to overcome so they'd be considered inspiring and strong. It's about making the characters relatable even if you are writing about a Jewish Space Captain Woman leading a fleet of bioships against her own kin... wait...

[@rifelaw]

I think I saw Doc Holliday in the background going, "Oh, make no mistake, it's not revenge she's after. It's a reckoning."

[@1977Yakko]

When she says she's death incarnate, I believe her.

[@ninjabearpress2574]

"God sent me." Still gives me chills.

[@danielhaire6677]

Wise choice. One episode she was told to break out heavy weapons and instead of going to an armory, she reached under her desk and pulled out TWO Heavy Particle rifles!!

[@robertbusek30]

Then again, she is also “the expanding Russian frontier.” (With very nice borders…)

[@DamienSteiner-om4of]

Two of my favourite speeches are this laying down of reality & Drummer as captain of the Behemoth

[@DrWho453]

I loved Ivanova. This was one of my two favorite quotes from her. The other is the one where she tells the fighter pilot, who pulled a stunt that almost killed him and some others, that she was god and that they WILL obey her. Man she was a great character and so was Marcus. I thought Marcus was so funny and I really hated when they killed him. I was always like how could they do that to him. I just hope in the new remake they are able to find characters that work well like Marcus and Ivanova, G'Kar and Mallari, Dellen and Sheridan otherwise I don't see the show lasting very long. Now that's not to say they won't have some bad / boring episodes that they probably could have done without. Even the original had a few episodes that they could have done without but you get through those and the next episode kicks everything back up a notch again. The sad thing about having all these episodes out now, is that the people watching today will never experience what we first timers got to experience. We know there was a longer story than what we were seeing each week and we had to wait for another week before we could get more answers and then would come the mid-season break and you had to wait a couple of months to get more information. You wanted to know more about the Shadows and the coming war and happened with B4. It was really quite the experience. Now you can just binge these things plus watch the movies out of sequence from how we saw them and just not get the same effect that we got having to watch and wait.

[@filippofittipaldi8050]

Susan was one of my favorite characters in B5. Great speech.

[@RichardX1]

I do love it when sci-fi creators remember that combat in space isn't bound to the same rules of maneuvering that exist in a gravity well with atmosphere.

[@Robert-hz9bj]

They go back and forth on how ''realistic'' the portrayal of space combat is. There's one episode where Delenn and Sheridan are commanding a fleet against the Shadows and Delenn declares ''they're trying to outflank us!'' And it's like, WTF are you talking about woman? You're in space There are no ''flanks.'' Pretty much every fucking direction is a ''flank''

[@RichardX1]

@@Robert-hz9bj well, with sufficient ships one could three-dimensionally encircle (ensphere?) one's opponent...

[@JonLondrezos]

If only the same creators realized that sound is not audible in space then this would have been as realistic as Galactica.

[@seawolf4846]

@@Robert-hz9bj We sort of, the threat with getting outflanked in this situation is actually having the enemy able to achieve a crossfire. Which means that evasive maneuvers would be less effective by a significant margin.

[@Synthonym]

​@@Robert-hz9bja 'flank' is any direction that leaves you vulnerable to attack. It's easier to flank in space, not harder

[@maskedriderweaver4122]

Ivanova's mere presence could win a battle.

[@roguishpaladin]

Nah, you're thinking Delenn. Ivanova is pretty close, though.

[@Ork20111]

That is what differs a good commander from a great one.

[@leemachado5286]

Ivanova is one of my all time favorite scifi heroines! Such a badass in this even though the death incarnate speech was a bit over the top, still gives me chills!

[@lovipoekimo176]

That spinning wheel of destruction formation that the Whitestars did was so badass!!!

[@Meower68]

Find the clip where Delenn and Lennier first encounter the Drakh. "Mr Lennier, are you familiar with the Warrior Caste tactic of skin dancing?" Pretty bad a** White Star tactics, as well. "End. This."

[@lovipoekimo176]

@@Meower68 loved that one too, but this was my favorite Whitestar maneuver clip.

[@SeedlingNL]

Babylon 5 was the last of the great scifi tv shows. There would be no other. The year is 2021. May Ivanova have mercy on us all.

[@Philip02K]

I loved her command and presence.

[@UnknownUzer]

If there were a list of the top 100 badass lines in a sci-fi series , this would rank pretty high on that list.

[@davidbrouwers7309]

UnknownUzer that and Delenn's one human ever survived speech in S3 when EarthForce ships attacked B5 (true fans know exactly which speech I refer to)

[@UnknownUzer]

@@davidbrouwers7309 I LOVE how she ended that speech "If you value your lives, be somewhere else"

[@ninjabearpress2574]

@@davidbrouwers7309 I love how she's racing to her man's rescue, and without making Sheriden look like a puss.

[@themandownthehall]

@@ninjabearpress2574 That was one of the great things about this series. The women were strong because they actually were strong and not because the men were neutered and weak like you see in so many movies/shows today. In B5 the competed with men at their levels. Won some, lost some but were always strong and smart

[@ninjabearpress2574]

@@themandownthehall chalk that up to excellent writing and casting.

[@msbae]

I miss this show.

[@sharkdentures3247]

Every time I hear that speech I think, Damn . . . this is one of the ONLY times a Vorlon asking the question would simply say "Yes." or "Correct.", because someone FINALLY answered the question right. "Who are you?"

[@Jerkface-wl5nd]

A Vorlon would back the hell up and apologize at that point...

[@markmullins8622]

Omfg and you people have the gall to mock star treks speeches?? Lmao so over the top its like a parody of a sci fi show

[@Crazael]

@@markmullins8622 Uhh... what? When did anyone mention Star Trek?

[@themandownthehall]

The inquisitor would have removed the cuffs and left on his own...

[@christopherg2347]

@@markmullins8622 Funny, I am both a B5 and Star Trek Fan. And I think you are full of BS. In fact, Spock for Balance of Terror called: He says you are so full of it, if they could funnel that outside they would not need to wait for a random comet halo to hunt down that that Romulan Stealth Ship!

[@NardoVogt]

Ivanova: I am Death Incarnate Kira Nery: If you want a war, I'll give you one. Avasarala: Tell them I will rain Hellfire on them. Give the drama to the men in SciFy. Badassary is the realm of women in the future.

[@Fizz-Pop]

Ah my beautiful 90's tv. I miss you.

[@fjtalleyauthor2242]

One of my favorite sci-fi characters ever. Elements of a major character in my novels was based on Susan Ivanova.

[@roepi]

What I liked the most about this is how it's Ivanova that answers the Vorlon question that well where it was Vir who had the best answer to the Shadow question. Both characters are respective second in command on both sides of that conflict and both are loyal to a fault to their direct superior. And in both cases their answers were a big huge fuck you to the one who asked the question and it didn't end well for the one asking the question in both cases. Ivanova told exactly who whe was with zero regrets knowing full well it would kill her (not counting Marcus intervening) and vir was the only one who got exactly what he wanted with zero regrets.

[@alfstewart22]

3:42 "If we it let get away they'll bring back reinforcements" Always loved this line, it confirms to the viewer than Ivanova recgonises that these Earthgov\Shadow hybrids are alive.

[@TheEVEInspiration]

She fights like a Minbari would, all in no matter the odds!

[@mattheww5873]

There's also the sense the these things are Abominations, like Frankenstein's monster, and they need to be destroyed, no matter what the cost. B5 always operating on multiple levels of awesome.

[@michalbukvai7548]

She is hard as rock, but still - the whole fleet of whitestars is what gives me chills.

[@leighsaunderson9203]

Remember the first Whitestar and we were "WOW" look at that... then you get that "it was never meant to be one of kind" moment....I still remember watching that fleet reveal for the first time during the original broadcasts in the UK !

[@RoTenken]

My favorite Sci-Fi ship to this day.

[@cennon]

Funny how the spacebattles on this show from the 90's is better than the spacebattles of most sci fi shows today.

[@tomcline5631]

Oh yeah,I agree!!! It's like they had a time machine or something!

[@cennon]

@@tomcline5631 example. I love Star Trek Discovery and Battlestar Galactica but the spacebattles are no where near as exciting as B5 and that show is over 25 years old.

[@tomcline5631]

@@cennon I liked Battlestar Galactica,but yeah,the spaceship scenes were pretty low rent! As for Discovery,I'm a Star Trek purist! Discovery has nothing to do with the Proper Star Trek cannon. Having said that,the battle scenes were ok but not what you'd expect from a 21st century show! Babylon 5 was pretty damned amazing. The only thing I ever saw that was the least bit wonky was when they were looking at Kosh's ship. Even then,you could play it off as the whole Vorlan race being half assed wonky to begin with! Ive watched the first season of Discovery,a lot of really cool characters,but I've seen and Studied All the original series and movies,and All the next generation series and movies,and probably read 99% of the Universal studios approved books,there's just not room in my head for the altered history stuff like Enterprise NX01 crap ,Discovery,and even the new movies( even though we Know it's an alternate timeline). If you had never seen Star Trek, Discovery would be pretty good,but I just can't unsee,and unlearn 40 years of personal experience. In Valen's name...

[@bjrneirikstrkersen1021]

Vorlons: "Who are you?" Shadows: "What do you want?" Ivanova: "I am DEATH incarnate and I want to kill you!" Vorlons/Shadows: "Wow, that...actually checks out. Huh. Eh, we just remembered we're late for a tea party at Sigma 957, toodeloooo!"

[@Jay-ip7sl]

The speech gave me chills

[@112steinway]

"Oh Valen help me, we're all doomed!" "Dude, she's on our side...remember?" "Oh thank Valen, we're saved!"

[@DLordSadow]

And not only did she know Valen, he knew better then to ever cross her!

[@nemo99nemo83]

Actually....they were doomed anyway. I would consider that battle a draw with both fleets completely anihilated.

[@DLordSadow]

@@nemo99nemo83 Actually, a few White Stars survived. The White Stars also succeeded in their mission objective in eliminating the threat to the rebel Earthforce ships. The Shadow Omegas failed in that their target was the rebel Earthforce ships, not the White Stars.

[@mikef-gi2dg]

When someone tells you they are DEATH INCARNATE, like she did, you best believe their finger is flexed on the trigger, you only have a few seconds left, before a posterior BEAT DOWN. A kick A scene for sure.

[@stevengreen9536]

Man I miss this show.

[@michaelmorton5698]

This would have been a good time for the Earth Alliance ships to run. Some opponents just never take the hint.

[@Kodalith]

A very wise Centauri once said. "Arrogant men never do."

[@ChairmanMo]

These guys were a bunch of brainwashed Clark Loyalists and they had some pretty advanced ships.

[@raquelmccormick2312]

oh, how I use to love the white Starfleet ships..when they first introduced them I was like tough little ship LOOOOOOOOVE it!

[@Ushio01]

Little? it's the size of the Nebula or Akira class in Star Trek only the Galaxy and Sovereign class are larger in the Federation before the 2009 reboot made all the ships a lot bigger.

[@Robert_Douglass]

I don't think they named any of the White Stars. But if they had, I'm sure one of them would have been named "Defiant".

[@Crazael]

@@Ushio01 Two things: The Akira and Nebula classes were not particularly large ships. Also, compared to the ships in B5, which are actually relevant to this discussion, the White Stars are tiny.

[@martinthomas1293]

Babylon 5 always had a way with giving some of the best lines in sci-fi history this one is on the top five

[@Jeng4280]

Such a badass scene. This is what made Babylon 5 such a great series for me; this and the moment where Delenn and her ship defended B5.

[@susandaniels9733]

You closed out on the most tear jerking and best part.

[@ashe4711]

It saddens me not long after this Marcus is gone and the crew is dispersed.

[@GUMMRUCHK]

Part of me wants this show remade but the other part knows they'd just fuck it up. lol

[@jimyoung9262]

Cheesy as this show could be, it was some of the best sci Fi ever written

[@TheGrayfrog100]

Delen said "Be somewhere else" That was a Threat. Ivonava is just Terrifying!

[@stevedixon921]

B5 was a great series. One of my top ten for sure. One story told over five seasons.

[@julieeverett7442]

JMS wrote this as a novel, a book for television, with a distinct beginning, middle and end, to my knowledge the first and only time this has been done. One of my top 5 favourite stories

[@OriginalMergatroid]

I wish they had of shown the face of the Earth Force commander after Ivanova's speech

[@DLordSadow]

I’m sure the director did too. However, the show’s budget was basically pocket change. 😞

[@lightbox617]

I could rewatch this for hours

[@Raguleader]

And that's why Sebastian never asked Susan Ivanova "Who are you?"

[@x_lonewolf_x]

2nd best scene ever !!!! the first being mimbari ambassador Delenn's protection of Babylon 5 speech : ]

[@JFinSD2]

Never a wise move to piss off Ivanova. I love her "death incarnate" speech.

[@joehealy6376]

No one is as the appear. This was the greatness of the show. The mystical Minbari, The warrior angry lizard Narn, The comedic Centari, The nearly angelic ignamic Vorlon, and most of noble humans to show it is done. This was the orginal plot, and nearly every episode after chips away at that. Character matters, faith endures.

[@WardNightstone]

the inertia dampeners on whitestars must have been INSANELY powerful to not turn the crews into paste turning like that

[@aikrichter5403]

Vorlon tech enhanced,for sure.

[@brianwhedon8442]

WhiteStars are almost all Minbari tech except for Vorlon bio-armor and the Vorlon altered Neutron Beam. That's why the main weapon at full power takes almost all of the main power except for life support. Even the Vorlons didn't want the Younger Races to have anything that could potentially threaten them if the balance of power shifted

[@spleefthedude7747]

In my opinion these are still the best space battle scenes ever. Far superior to Star Trek. And much more realistic as to what it would be like. Michael Straczynski is a genius

[@johnny5wd567]

I like both. Both franchises have their moments. Wrath of Khan has some "realistic" space battle too. Although since no one has been engaged in actual, real life realistic space battles, who knows what it woul be like? In Star Trek, while science fiction, the science part does get some emphasis and explanation, it's not entirely without any scientific theories whatsoever, unlike for example Star Wars (which I consider fantasy not scifi, but yeah, it's usually closely aligned with one another precisely because of things like space battles etc.). Anyway, to each their own. This scene did make me want to watch Babylon 5 again. It's been ages...

[@FFGuy-eu7hr]

I think B5 is more realistic to what humanity will look like when we travel into space on a larger scale, we will probably lack inventions like energy shields and food replicators.

[@gorilladisco9108]

@@FFGuy-eu7hr Don't forget artificial gravity. Earth ships have to provide it by rotation, just like the Babylon 5 station does. The Star Fury pilots are strapped onto it to prevent them from flying around.

[@anonymousrex5207]

@@FFGuy-eu7hr What I always thought was interesting is that Star Trek (original series), Babylon 5 and The Expanse all take place around roughly the same year, yet each series has a completely different take on how humanity's evolution into the space era has gone. Its really interesting to see each series' take on the future. I have to agree that B5 still has the best space battles, characters and story of any sci-fi series to date. Seeing those whitestars fly in formation or maneuver during combat is just such a beautiful thing to watch

[@chrisdewfall7920]

@@anonymousrex5207 for me b5 is still mone of my favourite series but teh expanse a very very very close second. personally i find it one of the few shows that is a worthy successor to babylon 5

[@TheMelbournelad]

From Russia with love

[@babylon5reimaginedseries]

Can't wait for the new series to begin!

[@VoodooV1]

Captain Jake Thompson dislikes this video.

[@samsung3254]

🤣🤣🤣

[@orochigo31]

Called him sweetheart, told him what was to happen and let it be known whom it was that sent her. Talk of the wrong place at the wrong time buddy. One of the absolute best lines in Babylon 5. They didn't show it in the clip here but the way everybody looked when she said it, absolutely fantastic work. Five seasons in a couple of movies wasn't enough.

[@paulsak59]

Always a pleasure to watch this episode.

[@dustygrant3043]

This speach goes to prove that they had some very talented writers and creative workers on an excellent show and the fact that it STILL holds up to this day attests too that!!!! Along with the very talented actress on the other side of the camera TOO!!!!!! I'm really not good with names and it's been awhile since i saw the most AWESOME show ever made!!!!!!

[@mstephens44]

Umm. There was only one writer. His initials are JMS.

[@Jadguy24]

The other white stars: ok so looks like they have shadow tech. We probably want to keep our distance: Ivanova: SUUUUUSAN IVANOVA!!! (In the style of Leeroy Jenkins) Other white stars: Oh Velen, save her

[@bramvanduijn8086]

It has a certain... Minsk: "GO FOR THE EYES BOO!, THE EEYYESSSS!!!" ... feel to it.

[@larskolme9740]

The look on Susan Ivanova's/Claudia Christian's face, when she threatens someone, is quite priceless. Not to mention scary, as was Mira Furlan/Delenn.

[@acadrengberg]

"... and give me firing control." (gulp)

[@meatpuppet5036]

This is what quality strong female characters are, Ivanova gives a badass speech, then works for her victory. Modern writers would either have the opponents run away or get easily curbstomped.

[@themandownthehall]

Exactly. Or the men would be so weak as to be laughable. JMS knew how to write good characters and situations. That's for sure. I'm glad he's back to do the new series

[@ladycatherinedebourgh2491]

It is with supreme hope that Babylon 5 gets a HD remaster one of these days.

[@Administrator_O-5]

It's supposedly getting the 4K treatment, but it's also getting a reboot in 2022.

[@erikgorn]

omg so good. Been rewatching the series with a good friend. Such an epic moment!!!

[@ejpennine7479]

Star Trek discovery fans: We finally have a bad ass female character who is t just a live interest. Janeway and Ivoniva look at one another Janeway: Should we tell them? Ivoniva: why? It would spoil Garabaldi’s radio show? Half his shows are about these idiots, and the way he makes fun of them, even Bester called into the show to give him a few more insults to call these…things. It was hilarious.

[@robinj.9329]

"God sent me!" My favorite line.

[@ninjabearpress2574]

It gave me chills.

[@marcushoward6560]

This will always be one of the greatest scenes from the entire series!

[@KyleRuggles]

Oh man! I'm watching this over again from first watching it on air originally, and that quote from Susan, I am death Incarnate... Oh that hit HARD! And I must admit, season 3 and 4 really turned it up a notch in the VFX! This battle is right up there with some of the ones from The Expanse. I LOVE THIS SHOW! Watching this ep right now, oh man.

[@mikeb.5039]

Delen's fear speech just as equal

[@MichaelClark-uw7ex]

If you value your lives, be somewhere else.

[@ninjabearpress2574]

@@MichaelClark-uw7ex And run they did...gawd I miss quality entertainment like this.

[@Andy13april64]

When I hear that speech, I get goosebumps. oooh.

[@atomicsockbombs]

Ivanova can win a game of Connect Four in three moves.

[@dirdib69]

"God sent me."

[@ninjabearpress2574]

I know, gives you chills, doesn't it? What a woman.

[@deegee6863]

First time I saw those destroyers with all that Shadow skin on them I had such a nerdgasm LOL

[@Robert_Douglass]

I gasped in horror. There was only one reason to incorporate that kind of tech into those ships, and that is conquest. Clark would have eventually tried to run roughshod over the entire galaxy.

[@ninjabearpress2574]

@@Robert_Douglass Yeah, my reaction was "eff me".

[@annstillwell730]

I miss this show :(

[@jimkirk4357]

I remember this episode from B5's 1st run and it never fails to hit me like a sledgehammer. GOD SENT ME. Doesn't get any more blunt than Ivanova except maybe Delenn (be somewhere else). Gotta love the women of Babylon 5, they hit hard and often. Strong women who are respected by their peers. Wake up woke idiots!

[@fullerdave1]

One of the best line in the entire series and that's saying something for sure!

[@Voodoomaria]

See the clip entitled "If you value your lives" as well. The Power women of today's TV are pale shadows of Ivanova, and Delenn. THAT was writing.

[@cozmikcastaway]

Great series, sure the acting was at times so so and the CGI was in its infancy but back then we were all like “hell yea!!!!” Overall a very good and ground breaking show!

[@buddyjones5419]

A good second speech behind Delenn speech.

[@billsmith981]

It took a couple of seasons for them to get it right....and they really did.

[@manofaction1807]

One of the greatest Sci Fi shows ever.

[@pimpinken8901]

We’re smaller and more maneuverable so let’s fly in the tightest formation we got to insure we’re taking heavy damage

[@DLordSadow]

They needed to concentrate their firepower as well as cover each other from the Starfurries. Plus, by doing so, they goaded them EA fleet into trying to surrounding them. That was a fatal mistake as their ships were slow and maneuvered poorly. The Whitestars were then able to quickly defeat the EA Destroyers in detail.

[@pimpinken8901]

@@DLordSadow still if you’re ships are more maneuverable than the enemy flying in a tight formation Basically illuminates that advantage allowing the enemy to focus their fire power on the single spot if it was me I would have kept them moving in a spread out formation with plenty of gaps and I’m sure a single white star could handle a multiple star Fury’s just as minbari fighters did in the war, and now you have a minbari -vorlon hybrid They wouldn’t stand a chance and while spread out have them attack Specific points on the heavy cruiser altogether from every directions

[@waltermc3906]

Tell me, just what exactly makes you think that you are a credible expert in 23rd century space combat tactics? Fuck, what makes you think your choice of tactics would work in even in our world? Do you know what happens when you just have everyone zooming about on their own randomly like you suggest? the chances of them all crashing into each-other get exponentially higher. THE best way to achieve the affect you are claiming would actually to fly in patterns and formation... JUST LIKE WE SAW. It seems that your entire concept on how space combat works is derived entirely from Star Trek, throw that away

[@bramvanduijn8086]

To be fair, when you're in space maneuverability is all about rotation speed. Lateral movement is a lot less relevant factor simply because it is trivial compared to your forward momentum. So if you can find the gap in the firing cones of the enemy ships and you can thread through it faster than the enemy can turn to close the gap, then a tight formation might be best. At least in the short term, until you're past the enemy and you need find new gaps to thread. They could have made it clearer, but the added exposition of the tactics would have taken away from the emotion of the scene.

[@Jadguy24]

When you make ivonova mad you need to hit the escape button and nope on out of there

[@josephtiseo3303]

Just think how there were no strong female characters before Captain Marvel. One of the best lines and scenes Ive ever seen.

[@hawkstringfellow]

She was tough professional tactical and i loved her

[@willowfrog33]

you really should have let the scene play out

[@christopheranders6725]

She was the bomb on that show

[@LateLost]

I remember watching this as a kid and just enjoying the speech. As an adult though I'm not quite sure I agree with her tactics. A straight-up fight with these vessels might not have been the best idea they white stars were faster and more agile and maneuverable. They can also create their own jump points with pinpoint accuracy why didn't they pull a Blackstar and open up a jump point right in the middle of them after they retreated and came back using hit-and-run faint and their speed to their advantage. Makes for less dramatic television I guess.

[@Rembanspellsong]

they had just jumped out of hyperspace, they might not have had time to recharge their engines to the point they could reopen a jump point. Jump points are incredibly taxing on engines.

[@cathipalmer8217]

Maybe JMS isn't the strategist you are.

[@LateLost]

@@Rembanspellsong that would be interesting except there were multiple white stars and they all didn't need to make jump points. Some of them could have just ridden in with the other White stars that had made jump points. So they would had to have some white stars with fully charged jump engines.

[@LateLost]

@DOUG HEINS unlikely given that most Destroyers or not nearly as fast as a White Star. Plus going after the white star and trying to fight it in hyperspace would be disastrous. I never saw a lot of times when they wanted to fight battles in hyperspace. The worst they could possibly do is try to destabilize the jump point before the white star could get in it but that much released energy might cause the Destroyer that many problems to.

[@mstephens44]

Sounds like you would run from a bully

[@robertjackson3552]

"Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God."

[@ruprecht8520]

When I saw this originally it sent chills down my spine. Now, isolated to just a clip without the build-up of story, it doesn't work as well. Anyone watching this should watch the show. Its worth every minute.