Babylon 5 | S4E18 - Intersections In Real Time: Part Two | Reaction

[@bryancorrell3689]

The Drazi is played by Wayne Alexander, who played (among a number of roles) Lorien and (most interesting in this case) Sebastian in "Comes the Inquisitor." So the last guy to interrogate him is there again.

[@robertanderson6929]

The fact that Wayne Alexander never won an Emmy for his performances is really a shame. And while this is my favorite episode of the Series, _Comes the Inquisitor_ is a very close second.

[@joannecunliffe8067]

I never realized Wayne Alexander played Sebastian (who is of course "Jack the Ripper"). D'Oh (as Homer would say)! Thank you for that. I'll rewatch it. Yes I think Wayne should have been given awards for his acting too.

[@donaldpaluga]

Patrick Stewart never won an Emmy either

[@dragon1011dk]

ah his name is Sebastian but you can call him "Jack".

[@mgerlicki]

"Anyone I know?" "You'd be surprised."

[@jaredrobinson7071]

"But can you win?" "Every time I say No." powerful ass episode.

[@richardcoulson6027]

“You’d be surprised” Mr Sebastian, aka Jack the Ripper

[@bureau31]

"You asked me once, what was in Room 17. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 17 is the worst thing in the world." - 1984 The ultimate horror of Room 17 is simply that the torture will never stop.

[@dargron7614]

George Orwell's 1984 is a masterpiece, and came with the warning "Don't let it happen, it depends on you". JMS took it one step further, and with B5 attempted to fill in the gap of how we get from here to there. B5 offers up a demonstration of just how quickly and easily we can slip from a free and democratic society into Orwell's dystopia, and it has been playing out in the background ever since Clarke came into power, with direct references to 1984 like the Ministry of Peace and the Ministry of Truth.

[@robertanderson6929]

@@dargron7614 And yet for all intents and purposes we HAVE allowed it to happen. We recently saw government officials bragging that they have coerced platforms such as this one into labeling opinions which are contrary to government policy as misinformation or disinformation. A government official literally said recently, "We own the science now!" This was in reference to official government weather predictions for up to 100 YEARS FROM NOW and how platforms such as this one now label _contrary predictions_ to be "misinformation" or "disinformation." I saw a video the other day which was labeled as having something to do with a group which the government considers a domestic _threat._ Yet the video didn't mention the group or the government policy to which the group appears to oppose. That policy has something to do with family courts taking away people's driver's licenses to punish individuals by making it HARDER for them to seek and perform work and thus harder to pay child support payments. The video in question was of a particularly bad traffic stop where the police's conduct what highly questionable. Simply posting videos of the police as they perform their sworn duty in full view of the public can earn someone a label which considers them a threat commensurate with the _triple K clan_ or those guys who misbehaved on 9/11. Notice that I cannot actually list their names or my comment will be deleted again. Finally, the current U.S. administration has a "Disinformation Board" which operates very much like Orwell's Ministry of Truth where it labels OPINIONS as disinformation if they are in opposition to current administration policy. We're there already. We let it happen.

[@rumblebars]

Orwell's version was not that number. JMS missed by... 84. Of course he did.

[@LMoftheCoast]

My absolute favourite episode of the show. A masterpiece in my opinion. As horrific and difficult it is to watch, I have to absolutely applaud this episode for being brave enough to go there. Great work by everyone involved, and a great reaction from Medusa. :)

[@robertanderson6929]

I do agree and this is my favorite episode too. Many have accused Bruce Boxleitner of being a bit "hammy." And I understand the criticism because that is how the character was written. The actors often referred to the series as "Babble-On 5" because JMS wrote long monologues, in particular for Mira Furlan, but for other characters as well. And Boxleitner had no shortage of upbeat speeches to deliver to other characters. But this season and this episode in particular allowed Boxleitner to really stretch his acting skills. And JMS embodied the character with an almost unheard of amount of depth for a "TV show." When you see Sheridan's face as the Interrogator lists the capital crimes of which he is charged AND will be convicted this is no longer a "space opera" but a human tragedy. And hats off to Raye Birk who played the Interrogator. One is filled with a real sense of hopelessness when he delivers that line, "No tribunals. No attorneys. No justice. No mercy. No fairness. No HOPE! No last minute escape. You will walk though that door WHEN you confess and not one second before!"

[@lizstratton9689]

Discombobulate - I used this word too !!! The Director / Script for this should have won and award.

[@Framed-Naraht]

This episode was originally planned to be the Season 4 season ender before they had to accelerate things since they didn't think they'd get a Season 5.

[@PurpleDrazi]

"John doesn't have a bathroom here . . ." "I'll be back when they've had a chance to clean up the place" :)

[@wrorchestra1]

Joe Straczinsky, being a trained psychologist, really knows how to write an uncomfortable episode.

[@petersvillage7447]

I've often admired his screenplay for Clint Eastwood's The Changeling - that has some very uncomfortable and subtly upsetting elements...

[@MrDdaland]

The comment was made in post production "OK, what sadistic M--------F------- wrote this?"

[@hornorsilk2901]

@@petersvillage7447 An underrated movie

[@hemmojito]

Funny little sidenote: The way Bruce Boxleitner depicts sipping water and immediately fighting a gag reflex that's legit. Working in a hospital and seen it many times. It would fit his supposed condition.

[@denveradams4909]

I served as a US Marine from 1977 to 1983. I am thankful that I was never involved in combat of any kind. However, after what I saw of our POWs during the first Gulf war and how they were treated, I wonder if I could have endured this kind of interrogation and treatment by the enemy. They try to teach us that there are rules of war under the Geneva Convention Accords, but the reality is that there are NO rules of war. War is war and the goal is to win by any means necessary. Rules of war may sound nice, but they are far from reality. To teach our military personnel that rules will be followed, when it comes to POWs, is cruel. There is no such thing and this practice must stop.

[@jamesabernethy7896]

THERE ...ARE...FOUR... LIGHTS!

[@danielmaas1827]

Spent the last 3 hours clicking "refresh" in my browser waiting for part two to be uploaded 🙂

[@jamesabernethy7896]

This was an amazing episode, so intense and your reactions showed the swings between the confusion and the revelations. The beats of this episode were like a metronome, ticking back and forth with powerful silences in between those moments.

[@LuciousDeMorte]

Fun fact, the Drazi making the confession was played by Wayne Alexander, same actor who played Lorien

[@nicholasvandervelden450]

& Sebastian!

[@BabylonLurker]

Oh, yes. The Drazi is played by Wayne Alexander who also played the Inquisitor, Sebastian, and later Lorien. This is one amazing and disturbing episode. "Can you win?" ... "Every time I say:NO!" Good stuff and both Bruce and (I can't recall the actor's namer) deliver great performances. Very much a piece of theatre. two people in a room. One of the most powerful episodes of B5. Remind me of The Prisoner. And then the new interrogator. Do we know if there have been more interrogators? Interesting. Excellent reaction to this very special episode.

[@stt5v2002]

For me, the reveal that the Drazi was part of the interrogation routine was just chilling. Not that it was revealed to the viewer, but to John. It is such a brutal strike at John’s psychology. They made him think that he had inspired another to stand up for what is right. Then they made him think that his action caused the Drazi’s death, forcing him to question whether he is doing the right thing and whether the cost is too high. Then they reveal that the entire event was a hoax, destroying any belief that he was able to exert influence or control. At the reveal, the Drazi looks at him with this little smirk. as if to say “you are so naive. We know what you will do long before you do. You have no hope.” Followed by simply restarting with a new interrogator as if nothing had happened. It’s brutal.

[@villeuusivuori7150]

I remember reading somewhere (but quick google doesn't provide a good citation) that this interrogation scene was made with some guidance from Amnesty international anti-torture campaing.

[@rfletch62]

Inquisitor: Have you ever been interrogated before? Sheridan: You'd be surprised. Cool reference to Delenn and Sheridan's inquisition by Jack.

[@back2babylon513]

Ironically, I watched these while eating breakfast on one of the rare days I *don't* have corned beef sandwiches for breakfast.

[@TKnightcrawler]

One of my favorite episodes in Bablyon 5! BTW I think the "toxins" in the food is supposed to be the lies of the Clark regime; yeah, it's tough to swallow at first, but if you keep eating it every day, you will get used to it and eventually forget there's anything wrong.

[@duaneswab3420]

One of my favorite episodes of television. I love how JMS told you in the title what the episode would entail. The interrogation scenes feature commercials that are Intersections in Real Time. As we watched it on first airing, the adverts were annoying, but JMS wrote them into the structure of this eoisode. Brilliant!

[@davidblauyoutube]

What a masterpiece of an episode, and what a fantastic reaction. When I watch this, I am always shocked, disgusted, and saddened that there exist human beings--members of my own species--out there who dream up these kinds of methods to break one another physically and mentally, and that there are others out there (even today) who apply these tortures to their fellow humans.

[@Aeroldoth3]

Yes. I call them christians.

[@sdfried4877]

Everytime I see this, I forget that the Interrogator also played the evil Papschmear in the Naked Gun series.

[@godzillalover2]

This was one of the most powerful episodes and was a show case of Bruce Boxleitner and his skills. Truly fantastic, and you are gonna love what comes next,

[@Mauther]

There is a fan favorite ST:NG that has a very similar torture plotline. In that one, we see Picard's honor and courage allow him to beat the torturer. In this episode we get the much more real scenario. In reality, real professional torture works. Survivors all say that eventually, everyone breaks. The cold, methodical, relentless approach breaks everyone. Notice how they allow him his victories, then crush those victories no matter how little to show how meaningless his resistance. Keeping track of time, getting the Drazi to resist, accepting death, all turned to ash. And without punching or whipping or cutting. Just the death of hope. And your point abot Garibaldi is true, but one other thing. Remember Michael has trust issues. His big thing is fear of being betrayed by those closest to him, as happened at the end of season 1. And Bester made him do that exact act, and remember he did it as well. Bester is such a bastard.

[@christophelombardi7810]

What an incredible episode! One of the best of the whole series. We've all heard about such techniques to break someone, but rarely are they depicted in movies or tv series in an uninterrupted 45 mns display. Another masterpiece of writing from JMS!

[@pedanticperson1149]

Re: You've been interrogated before? Always gets a chuckle from me, he would never believe John if he told him "I've been interrogated by Jack the Ripper". As for the interrogation he was put through, getting him to answer any question/to give up any information would be the goal; there are accounts of interrogations from WWII where simple chats about seemingly irrelevant things can lead prisoners to reveal more than they know & by talking to multiple people can mean building up a complete picture from the scraps.

[@jlvfr]

"How does he goes bathroom...?" ... he doesn't.

[@Concreteowl]

The costume of the interrogator is clearly yet another nod to The prisoner. This episode is very similar to a superb film called Closetland with Alan Rickman.

[@petervenkman69]

Interesting fact, the Drazi in this episode is played by Wayne Alexander, who also play Lorien, Sebastian (Jack the Ripper) and several other aliens. I will be honest, this is an incredibly important and effective episode, and one that I least like re-watching (I have watched the series many many times) as it is just so uncomfortable all the way through.

[@hornorsilk2901]

I always like to see this as the other side of "Comes the Inquisitor."

[@Eldormain9]

This was one of the most amazing episodes in this show. Such great insight and Bruce Boxleitner's performance was all so good. I hope all is well.

[@hilaryweston3027]

I believe that originally, they wanted to film this like a stage play with continuous takes. Would have been even more amazing if they had managed that.

[@jj-sc1kq]

And now I am caught up again. Looking forward to the next one.

[@ataylor435]

Hello. I've only recently found your channel. I think it's brilliant that someone so young is interested in the programmes i grew up with. I wish you all the best in your future career and look forward to your upcoming vids. Keep up the good work

[@KneelB4Bacon]

_"Well you can't have a corned beef sandwich for breakfast, it would upset your stomach. Corned beef sandwiches are for lunch. If it's morning you can't have it. If it's lunchtime, you can. Is it lunchtime?"_ The interrogator does this several times throughout the episode (i.e. asking if Sheridan's second-in-command is Ivonova, even though Earth almost certainly knows that she is). The point of this exercise is to see how willing Sheridan is to make small concessions. If he is, they can try something more outrageous (the ultimate goal being to have him sign the "confession.")

[@chriscoombes6751]

Think what you said at the end sums it up so well: you can't see a way out for him - Sheridans strength was showing cracks although he ultimately beat interrogator number 1, it's clear EarthForce will just keep bombarding him until something breaks! Getting close to the end of series 4 now, looking forward to getting your thoughts on the season as a whole at the end!

[@commknightj]

Wayne Alexander as the Drazi... Very tough episode. Physical and psychological torture which all governments have used at one time or another. JMS really went deep into the dark side of authoritarian government. And wrote a great episode in the process. Thank you for doing these. Love the reactions.

[@Cheshirewatcher]

this episode was, for me, was so powerful and well written but quite horrific. This kind of emotional manipulation, sensory deprivation, reinforcement of pain, denial of reality are all actual methods of torture. and what is more horrific is that it actually takes place not just by the bad guys. Very powerful memories of O'brien and Winston in 1984 (great book and film) btw. But it shows Johns tremendous resolve to endure it and strong will. But everyone breaks eventually... 😪

[@elaine_of_shalott6587]

And after this we had to wait 4 months for another episode. It was a brutal wait.

[@hilaryweston3027]

Not if you were in the UK. I believe we were ahead of the US for a while.

[@kalzar26]

Thank you for a great reaction. A lot of the little things they did to Sheridan in the episode were designed to break his grip on his since of self. Taking away his ability to be sure if it was really night or day for instance. The goal being to make him rely completely on them for any sense of what is until that's all he is, someone who would not only do what they tell him, but truly believe it is what is because he has broken and is no longer able to think for himself. Even the part out of view where they made him sick so they would be the ones that had to clean him, making him rely on them as if he was a child unable to do for himself. Any individual part of the torture would have just been disgusting, but when seen as a whole it's horrifying on a really deep and disturbing level. This episode always stuck with me as a warning of just how dark the capabilities of governments could go if not constantly reminded of the reasons they shouldn't.

[@Nebagram]

Even more mental, this was meant to be the season finale of season 4, before the season 5 is/isn't cancelled debacle.

[@kroberts8866]

JMS really displaying his background in psychology in a wonderful two man stage act. It always reminds me of the powerful film The Sunset Limited with Sam Jackson and Tommy Lee Jones.

[@Scott_Burton]

The mind is complicated, and John is proving that even in the Psi-Corps involved government that has had a couple hundred years to try to understand the mind, they still don't have it figured out.

[@aliquisvultteisus1012]

Sheridan gives an objective truth in answer to a force that is trying to convince him of a subjective lie. That scene is my favorite.

[@detectivesquirrel2621]

This episode is brutal and difficult to watch. But at the same time John's strength throughout is impressive.

[@RetroRobotRadio]

Just tell the Drazi that the interrogator is a green!

[@fakecubed]

There are FOUR lights!

[@chrism7395]

I love this episode, it's incredible. It was originally going to be the end of season 4 cliffhanger. Fun fact: the Drazi is played by Wayne Alexander who also played Sebastian (Jack the Ripper) and Lorien

[@keefer-k8266]

Great episode. Amazingly written. J. Michael Straczynski must be a fan of McGoohan's The Prisoner.

[@simongiles9749]

He is. They want McGoohan to be in the episode And The Sky Full Of Stars, but he had a scheduling clash.

[@keefer-k8266]

@@simongiles9749 Interesting. I knew Straczynski had Bester quote "Be Seeing You," but didn't know McGoohan was suppose to appear on an episode. That would have been epic.

[@drake8050]

'We are all expendable. Just parts in a machine. You're lucky. You were deemed nonexpendable when you got here. Even I don't fall into that category.' Pretty sure that first interrogator was killed for failing to get information.

[@rantingrodent416]

I doubt it. It seems like the interrogator handoff is part of their standard process in this place. Business as usual.

[@gabsrants]

welcome to the 1984 part of the story

[@adambesley4455]

Back in the day when I watched re-runs on the sci-fi channel as a kid my parents banned me from watching this episode. When I complained why my Mum tried to explain to me the plot of this episode in a very condescending way. Basically she used all the ways imaginable to say he's being tortured without actually saying "he's being tortured!" This was despite the fact that years earlier they'd let me watch the Star Trek TNG episode "Chain of Command" where the same thing happened.

[@CybershamanX]

I HIGHLY recommend you read JMS's _Becoming Superman_ book. I have no doubt that more than a few lines in this script came from the emotional and physical torture he suffered, mostly at the hands of his father. Especially the "it's out here, it's just flesh" part. 😕

[@jaredrobinson7071]

Medusa. This could have just been one day for John. He is there for longer than one day. They just showed when is morning when is corned beef sandwhich time when is night...... it's all relative

[@MINIMOTOMADNESS]

as a massive fan,i was surprised how dark this episode was,b 5 is epic,my daughter is named after a certain minbari leader,

[@pitiedvod]

You named your daughter Neroon? Neroon love for life!

[@kentlangres2879]

not Warleader Shakiri i hope...

[@michaelparker9904]

"Have you been interrogated before?" "Yes." "Anyone I know?..." why yes, his name was Sebastian....

[@marvingold6486]

Are you willing to die alone, in the dark, unknown, for one person?

[@KBTibbs]

"You'd be surprised... Jack the Ripper." "Oh, that is surprising!"

[@nemo99nemo83]

@@KBTibbs He never said he was "the ripper" he may have been some simple man of the victorian era with the nickname Jack ;)

[@SemiStableUniverse]

What an intense episode!

[@ianbuckley2347]

Around the time this aired a magazine made some unfavourable comparisons between Bruce Boxleitners performance in this episode with Patrick Stewart's in TNGs Chain of command. I remember Bruce was not impressed. I don't blame him either because he's great in this. One of my favourites.

[@cokaccount5487]

This episode is a diamond. Just after watching You can feel like sent to hell, the ending with full circle and repeat is most disturbing. For those of us experienced it just the music is enough to feel it instatntly again.... Excelent reaction as allways 🙂

[@Nikioko]

There... are... FOUR LIGHTS!

[@SonnyBubba]

War is peace Freedom is slavery Ignorance is strength

[@weirds0up]

The book keeping question is something they do it actual interrogations. It’s a way to open someone up because once you’ve told them one thing, they can make you tell them anything

[@martinblevin5587]

You need to check out a fantastic film called Closet Land starring Alan Rickman and Madeleine Stowe, to say it influenced this episode is putting it mildly.

[@PrinceIMC]

This somewhat reminds me of the TNG episode where Picard is tortured by a Cardassian. “THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!”

[@michaelflett09]

both episodes were loosely based around Orwell's 1984 so it's not surprising

[@davidengkent7756]

As good as this episode is, I don't care for torture episodes, so this and Star Trek's "Chain of Command Part 2" are two episodes I don't rewatch because it's such a difficult experience. Still, a fantastic job done by everyone.

[@ОбразцовТимофей]

GMS had to compress two seasons into one. This is why this season's plot is so dense. But he planned this episod from the beginning, and he couldn't sacrifice it. Masterpiece.

[@SonnyBubba]

Imagine if this were the season ending cliffhanger, with a six month wait for the next season. That. Was the original plan.

[@exile220ify]

*JMS

[@simongiles9749]

@@SonnyBubba Because of the way sweeps worked, the season finales were rarely cliffhangers in the original US broadcast, but aired right before running into the start of the next season. There was usually a break around episode 17 or 18, and in this case, thus one did actually end up in the cliffhanger spot. Also, the idea that two seasons were squeezed into one, is not accurate.

[@MatthewStephensAU]

"The truth is fluid. The truth is subjective." 2+2=5

[@dragon1011dk]

And this was made years before gitmo. People has told me that sf and fantasy is "reality escape". I read and watch sf and fantasy because its confronting the horrors of reality. "V", "Babylon 5" and "Lord of the rings" are mirrors of human nature, and only by confronting it can you grow.

[@Wh0isTh3D0ct0r]

I always assumed that the Drazi got mind-wiped by the Psi Corps when he was taken away.

[@nemo99nemo83]

Why mindwipe someone if you can simply hire a paid actor?

[@stevetheduck1425]

@@nemo99nemo83 - an actor in a Drazi mask...

[@wisemoon40]

This is a lot like the Star Trek The Next Generation episode where Captain Picard is captured by the Cardassians and interrogated. Both are very uncomfortable episodes.

[@theghostoftom]

Boop for the rithm.

[@Jamienomore]

Forcing by threats, set ups and brain washing must be a terrible thing to go through. Very Good Reactions.

[@VikingKärkkäinen]

Having experianced what sheridan goes throu this episode are the best of the series, no effects needed no green screen only good actors and good writing, day 5 you brake.

[@RandomAmerican3000]

Been a while since I've seen the episode, but I thought the Drazzi showing up at the end was meant to be either a hallucination or the spirit of the Drazzi himself. Basically a reminder to never give up.

[@christinac127]

It's open to some interpretation I think but it is interesting that at the end when we see the Drazi standing next to the second torturer, we then cut to a second angle in which the Drazi is NOT present, strongly suggesting that he is indeed a hallucination

[@patrickhambloch8317]

Fantastic episode. JMS is a master!

[@Poss1]

There it is! Thank you. :)

[@gallendugall8913]

Do you have any allergies? Are you currently taking any medication? Have you pushed the like button, subscribed and set notifications to all so you never miss new content?

[@CybershamanX]

The writing is just so freaking good in this episode. Extremely disturbing.

[@ExcelsiorsDomain]

Why did I not see this one pop up?!

[@davidcave5426]

Since you're also watching The Prisoner, do you see any parallels with that show and this episode? Because JMS modeled this episode after that series.

[@walterthefilmhermit7198]

Great video, I always find this episode hard to watch and I normally skip it when I rewatch the show. It’s really good, it just makes me to angry. Just some advice….NO SPOILERS…but if you haven’t already…I recommend watching the next 3 episodes in one sitting. You’ll know why after you watch them, don’t want to say more. Again great video it’s been a joy watching you enjoy B5

[@thomasstevens2746]

great reaction

[@derekramsaroup3883]

It almost pains me to say that this is probably the single most realistic episode of Babylon 5 .....

[@lizstratton9689]

Anyone I know - Answer is Jack the Ripper

[@kevinedie4119]

This episode is the very definition of a Bottle Episode. Maybe they ran out of money, maybe they wanted the challenge. But good god did they do a good job

[@SonnyBubba]

JMS wanted the challenge, but it wasn’t for budget reasons. The end of this episode: “do you have any allergies…” was originally going to be the Season 4 cliffhanger. They got him, they’re breaking him, and the audience would have six months to think about it before the next episode aired.

[@exile220ify]

Not really. Technically it is, but the reason "bottle episodes" exist in many series is for budgetary reasons, so the writers have to figure out a way to make do with existing sets. This episode was planned and written many years earlier as the season finale of season 4, and was meant to be a psychological thriller with no outside distractions. So think of it as a "reverse bottle episode", insofar as they knew they could shoot it relatively cheaply so it freed up budget money for other season 4 episodes.

[@mikeclemens795]

Heavy episode. But we got 2 in a day from MC!

[@SkageXL5]

How *DOES* he go to the Bathroom?

[@stevetheduck1425]

Babylon 5 did show the lavs on the station, but in an interrogation situation like this, the softening-up stage involves a lack of food and drink, so after a couple of days in a normal cell, he'd go to the interrogation room.

[@ventrue24601]

We want information....by hook or by crook....we will....

[@Wanderinpaladin]

As I said in the other part, I love/hate this episode.

[@MetalMalc]

NO!

[@rtex2020]

A highly disturbing show... this is often one I'll skip when I rewatch the series. By the way, you should re-watch the series (at least season 1) when you are done, as you'll see a lot more in the shows.

[@deegee6863]

This episode is one of my absolute favourites!!! It's such a mind f@ck and I love it!!