Back To Bethel EP6: Bethel Alumni Reacts To Mike Winger's Critiques On Bethel Church

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks For all of the Support guys! Latest video here kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2KYZqOfpbSphcU

[@angelafletcher6526]

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[@angelafletcher6526]

Okiuukuuki9 k i uu 8,uxi 78,uix8iiil c0 0ci o998ci 0h8😊7is c😅

[@angelafletcher6526]

Sorry that wasn't tongues, I accidentally sat on my phone😂

[@JuliexSteadman]

@@angelafletcher6526 🙂🙂🙂🙂

[@amongthethorns8788]

Dude, I have to share this. At about the 1:10:00 mark of the video Mike and you mention them talking about "the door". A couple of years back I was just personally interested in a form of meditation. And I still think there is an element to that which was acceptable and Biblical, meditating on the Word, sitting quietly and waiting on God, reflecting on His nature, etc. However, I had a moment where I was praying and I found my imagination wandering. And I ended up imagining a door, so since I was just kinda daydreaming I went ahead and went through it. And I imagined Jesus in there by a campfire I think, something like that as it has been a while. But then I sorta snapped back and was weirded out because I knew it wasn't a vision or anything but that I was just imagining Jesus, and it felt wrong. So I prayed that God would guide me away from anything not of Him. Well shortly after that on another day, I was praying and I internally heard(so not audible but still yet quite loud) DO NOT pursue that anymore. I recognized that voice as the Holy Spirit and I stopped the practice entirely. I mention that because I am very disconnected from the new age. No influence of it around me, not watching videos or reading about it. But that "door", man that is some sketchy stuff. I truly believe that was demonic deception and I just barely dodged it, only thanks to God's grace. This was long and you likely didn't read this, but I had to share. Because if that author is pursuing that type of stuff, this implies that Bethel is not just in error but is under active demonic deception. Sad stuff man, may God root out all that is evil and rescue the true sheep!

[@mombythesea2426]

This is centering prayer and a common eastern practice. Full of doors and ladders

[@stephanieparsons1056]

I did read it all. I think testimonies are incredibly important. Thank you for sharing!! God bless you for your courage to share

[@caroleimani9754]

​@@mombythesea2426DIDN'T JACOB SEE A LADDER GOING UP TO HEAVEN...😮...WE AREN'T HIM 😅....

[@mombythesea2426]

@@caroleimani9754 Yes. He did. But this isn’t at all the same

[@hephep7426]

How I biblically understand "meditating on the word of God" is an actual intent to focus on Him through His word. How we wait upon the Lord and reflect upon His nature is by actively reading what He is saying to us in His word and about His nature to reflect upon it. Activly reading The word, actively studying The word. Deliberatly focused on a particular passage in The word. God is a God of method, order,& design. There is nothing random or "reckless" about what he has done or wants to communicate to us, to know or to do.

[@Gingerlydesigns]

Mike’s video is the tipping point for me to delete all the Bethel music from my library. Thank you for your heart and dedication to all of this Jesse!

[@tomjjackson21]

Hillsong should be next; which is going to be difficult, lol.

[@erikx4433]

It isn't that difficult to leave Bethel Music, Hillsong etc once you find groups like City Alight, Sovereign Grace Music, Indelible Grace and the like :)

[@UnderMyPalm]

@@erikx4433 exactly.

[@donnagarcia4541]

I removed ALL Bethel and Hillsong a couple years ago.

[@donnagarcia4541]

@@erikx4433 great post for others.

[@lizstickney6397]

Wow! The statement about the counterfeit reminds me of a demonstration I saw about a bank teller who was checking 100 dollar bills for authenticity, and she was going through them extremely fast, and she suddenly found a counterfeit inside the pile. She explained that the only way to find the counterfeit was to constantly handle and study the authentic. That's how we as Christians need to handle the Word of God to weed out the counterfeit

[@thewestwoodhome]

Yup 👍🏼

[@dianefarrell2343]

Okay, you just lost me. I was under tbe impression that this book "The Physics of Heaven" was part of your classes when you were there.

[@scottmacdonald8942]

Thats funny Bill teaches the same thing, becareful people. Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls.” 1 Corinthians 3:3 For you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 1 John 2:9 Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. Romans 16:17 I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

[@hommerecorder7003]

Wow.!great

[@Philosophaster]

​@@scottmacdonald8942I was gonna say the same thing

[@lmorter7867]

The power of suggestion seems to be one of the strongest weapons the enemy uses against people in the charismatic church. I got so turned off from it I wanted nothing to do with supernatural experience. My passion was completely turned to studying the Word. I eventually realized that I should not throw the baby out with the bath water. There is nothing in scripture that says the gifts are not for today. I am working my way back to embracing the gifts in a scripturally, healthy balanced way.

[@ajb.822]

Yay ! Yeah, our growth takes time esp. while healing from really messed up teachings experiences or spiritual abuse ( using even technically accurately the world of God to manipulate you into accepting, sticking with an abusive person or situation with them. My Dad. ) ! But we get there, by the grace of God ! Yeah, Satanic schemes to cause error and destruction among mankind so often is 95 percent truth, but that 5 percent poison ! That misuse of even total truth, taken either out of it's own context or the context of all the rest of scripture, such as Satan's, when tempting Jesus at the end of that 40 day fast, his use and quoting of the verse that "God will give His angels charge over you, so that your foot won't strike a stone" . Jesus answered " It is also written "Do not put the Lord your God to the test" . Not the kind of proper test like " test every spirit" or the often allowable " laying out a fleece" request for confirmation, but the taking in vain the Lord's protection and provision, anymore than taking His name in vain is ok or beneficial or wise ! (That's just my two cents there, my understanding, not meaning to speak for God !)

[@alecferguson1004]

me too I hope it's getting better. What's the update? I'm trying to heal from this church too. Really been questioning if I am even saved. I continue to pray and hope I truly am for the Lord to show me.

[@lmorter7867]

@@alecferguson1004 I have been progressing. I pray in tongues during my personal prayer time once again. Also been using the gift of knowledge when prompted by God. I stay away from preachers that are not biblically sound. Being in the Word is critical to remaining in the Truth. I'm curious, what makes you question your salvation? Scripture says that we can know if we are saved. - By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot[ love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother. Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. - 1 John 4: 13-21, 1 John 5:1 -

[@alecferguson1004]

@@lmorter7867 what makes me question my salvation is the constant confusion and torment I have in my mind. Backsliding into sexual immorality (which I’ve repented from) realizing that things aren’t clicking. The fear of punishment. Whenever I sin I become scared. Especially when I get attacked. The lack of answers, the pressing and crushing doubts on my soul no matter how much I try to get rid of them. Repeating the same cycle of thinking over and over again. The lack of peace, the lack of the clarity of His presence. They way I came to believe. I simply confessed my sin and believed because God told me to confess my sins. But others tell me that unless I have a full and complete understanding of the gospel then I can’t be saved but what I experienced I believe was Him drawing me in and the forgiveness of sins, then there’s Bethel. They completely are false and have lead me astray and why I didn’t see that to begin with scares me. I would have hoped the Holy Spirit would have let me know I shouldn’t do it with my friends and family saying not to. I didn’t believe them because they don’t believe in God. I was encouraged by other believers. I’ve always followed my feelings and experiences but also gauged them with truth and now since having left bethel and having repented of some major sins in my life, I end up befriending a witch whom I didn’t realize was a witch, she deceived me and twisted my mind and thigh it’s and I’ve began to question every single experience. I don’t know what to believe it’s only magnified the fear of God not being real because I don’t wanna be disappointed again. It’s left my heart hurting and hard and unable to grasp God even though I desperately want to. I just don’t know what experience to trust anymore. I don’t know if he is judging me for falling into sexual sin and stumbling people I don’t know. All I know is I am desperate to know the True Lord Jesus Christ. Not some bs kundalini occult new age Jesus. I’m just confused and scared of being deceived and I keep dealing with all of the tormenting thoughts, still to this day. I can’t seem to listen to God when I feel like He wants me to let go. It’s just hell on earth and I hate it. I’ve had no peace or rest in my soul for a long time and it says there’s no peace for the wicked. I don’t wanna be wicked I’m not trying to be wicked I’m begging Jesus to show me His love and to help me understand. It’s just a lot and every time I think I’m coming out of it something else happens that wrecks havoc on my soul. And it makes me confused and it causes me to question everything

[@laurenfromdownsouth]

@@lmorter7867 What Bible teachers do you listen to now?

[@jeffurey6399]

I can do all things through a verse out of context! I was around them all. Bill and Benny, the Campbells, Che Ahn, Bentley and White, the Banovs, Randy Clark, Heidi etc etc etc. I was a body guard, assistant, drive them to hotels during conferences. I was raised by an Anabaptist pastor who was an expository preacher. I thank my dad for teaching me to be aware and finally leaving NAR movement and the church in Harrisburg, Pa.

[@thewestwoodhome]

what church in harrisburg? I lead worship there quite a few times. LOVE Little Amps Coffee btw ;)

[@JuliexSteadman]

" can do all things through a verse out of context! " - love it !! - going to use that... Todd bentley - I immediately knew he was off when he said on a you tube video that the same angel that started william branhams ministry started mine... And then i got his theology off of his web site (it was only there for a few days). He believed in serpent seed theology (same as branham) and praying to angels, he has some theologian write a paper on why it was ok to pray to angels (idolatory) using The Angel of the Lord (has to be Jesus as people worshipped him) in the OT. I didnt realise though that this was all part of dominion theology (and its new name, new apostolic reformation) until 2019 after a national day of prayer in the UK, Clifford HIll went public about how unhappy he was with NAR attendance at the prayer meeting.... prophecytoday.uk/comment/church-issues/item/1351-the-new-apostolic-reformation-an-overview.html Clifford hill refused to write the forward to the kansas city prophets book (1990's) as he discerned an evil spirit operating in Bob Jones. !!

[@phabebarcelona863]

What is Anabapist please can some explain. Greetings from accross the pond.

[@stephanieparsons1056]

I followed the word of faith movement for years while battling addiction (Drs wrote me opiates for years that turned into a serious 13 year addiction) I literally started doubting the Lord because , "why wasn't He healing me" I was given the idea it was my faith being worthless and I hadn't sown enough seed. In tears one night I had let KZbin auto play and why it chose an RC Sproul teaching is beyond me. Oh wow that was eye opening. It forced me to open my Bible and read it letting the Holy Spirit guide me to understanding. When I saw I wasn't really born again I had a night of serious repentance and surrender with the Lord. It took a year of falling and getting back up and understanding my suffering was part of my sanctification. The more I spent time in God's word the closer I got to the Lord, the more my sin sickened me, the more my sin sickened me the more the withdrawal was more pleasant than doing the sin. Praise God, with zero rehab, zero therapy I'm free from opiate pain meds!!(For five years ) I now understand rightly dividing the word is necessary, suffering does affect Christians , and doctrine matters

[@Rue1008]

When I first became a Christian I was attracted to the mystical and very nearly enrolled in BSSM. I think I was attracted because after spending 35 years in Eastern mysticism and the New Age, this was familiar territory and I just assumed that because this movement was "Christian" that this would finally result in me "knowing God'" experientially. During my Eastern mysticism / yoga period, I had spent numerous hours meditating, and had never 'found God'; so it was the idea of 'experiencing God' that attracted me the most. Now, having studied the Bible for the past few years, I see this movement through a different lens and am extremely wary of it. Many of the practices you mentioned we did in the context of yoga and meditation (guided meditations of various types including visualisations of deities, use of the power of sound in mantra and nada yoga for spiritual experiences, use of colour and geometrical shapes - mandalas and yantras - for spiritual experience, harnessing the 'power of the mind' to create our reality etc). So thanks for this video and thanks for helping us in the important work of discernment. 1 John 4 "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God" and Matthew 16: 4 "A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.' Jesus then left them and went away."

[@melissaconner9538]

I would love to see the two of you do an interview/conversation together. I've always enjoyed Mike's videos, I love how he researches and how he presents the truth. Thank you for doing this video! It's great to hear from a former Bethel student. God bless you.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Maybe one day!

[@jeannetteparry5587]

@@thewestwoodhome YAY!!!!!

[@MollyPitcher1778]

Yes. I am so grateful for Mike because he was there (online) when I came back to God and was seeking truth after dealing with counterfeits and horrible people calling themselves Christian. Mike was there to help me find my way back through his indepth teachings & being so obviously a kind, thoughtful, person who wants to do what's right in the eyes of the Lord. I am certain he would be very open to a conversation with you. My concern is about Muslims coming to Jesus and some going the atheist route or to people like Osteen and all those people.

[@selahr.]

Mike did a great job and I don’t think he will mind at all… I think he will be glad someone can verify this isn’t just a book written by a member but is actually being used and taught inside the church and school. I would add a link to his original video in the description, it’s good “reaction video” protocol to “credit” your sources and make it easy for viewers to go watch the unedited version.

[@thewestwoodhome]

👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[@joburton1629]

Someone from bethel did go on his face book and deny that anything from that book is taught at bethel, they clearly don’t know how to think critically which is sad

[@Gamer7z7]

Mike has in fact shared your video quite favorably 😄

[@92Raider-art]

@@joburton1629 That goes to both of their points though right? That they go on the good feeling it creates. I mean I recognize alot of this stuff in my Hillsong church as well. I've been disciplined by my pastor for pointing it out a number of times, but this also why I stay. God wants me there and I pray daily for our church to move back in the right direction again. I figure if someone wakes up then they need someone to guide them. Someone who knows their bible. Especially if I bring a brother to Christ, and I bring him to my church. Then I'll have to explain what is according to the bible and what is false that they preach. That's how I look at myself in that church. A reformed sleeper agent haha 🤣

[@karatethechaoswithkiki5368]

@@92Raider-art what did he/she do when they disciplined you? Asking sincerely.

[@tinekedijk7385]

We were told in a teaching meeting “ get a prophecy for someone and don’t worry getting it wrong “. I walked out . Australia.

[@wtan5814]

Praise God for that!

[@Make_Prophecy_Great_Again]

Awesome! You did the right thing.

[@Eloign]

You can reject Bethel and you can rightly point out the flaws but don’t run into the arms of Calvinists and the Scripture denial on that end either. Just take your time and let the Lord lead you into Biblical balance and peace. God Bless you!

[@truthanddelusion2008]

Mike would definitely not copy right strike you. Ostene's church did that to him and he was very frustrated by it. I think he likes facilitating conversation and deeper thinking. Thank you for sharing your experiences here. Bless you, brother!

[@sethtrey]

17:18 Isn't desiring power the way to the Dark Side? Other than the typical fear>anger>hate>suffering spiral?

[@thewestwoodhome]

i think you are on to something here

[@RuslanKD]

51:59 mic drop. Pursuing the counterfeit is so dangerous.

[@thewestwoodhome]

@RuslanKD Has entered the chat 😮

[@danielmora6711]

@Thewestwood I found bethel in 2011 they infected my church in Goodyear AZ were I met my wife. We moved to Redding and went into BETHEL school of Technology, regrettably we are in the middle of a divorce now and I am guilty of living in sin and was brought to repentance by the conviction of the Spirit, but our values no longer aligned. I have to little souls I need to protect now and I live in suffering so that they do not inquire in this culture. Brother, but with love in Christ my soon to be ex spouse I still rejoice that His word has set me free from this theology. Please join me in prayer for the mother of my two beautiful children that the Spirit of the true God convict and bring her to repentance as he did with me. ❤

[@joshsawicki5569]

I am in the process of leaving a church that has moved into the very building that Cal Pierce runs his healing rooms ministry. The church (body) originally worshipped in another church (building). Conflict in leadership lead to the church being without a building during the 2020 fiasco. We bounced around between a few conference halls and such and then settled in Cal Pierce's building. That's when the "extra-biblical" started to reveal itself along with the call for a revival and seeking miracles and prosperity through the inheritance of the kingdom. There was a turn from biblical historical emphasis in the teachings to the charismatic, prophetic, miracle seeking, visionaries we were warned against. Everything Mike's video, which I watched in its entirety prior to yours, and your analysis is 100% spot on. They speak of vision rooms, prophetic dreams, crystal cities, and healing on demand. If you're not blessed then you don't have enough faith. Your lack on Earth is a result of my lack of faith and my mindset of lack. I was also looked at with disdain when I wasn't drunk enough in the spirit. Very fake it til you make it. My bells and whistles have been going off for a while, but my son met and quickly married the daughter of the worship pastors so we stayed around even though our spirit was left thirsty. Unfortunately, I know all too well this idea of raising the dead. My son and daughter-in-law had a beautiful baby boy who passed at 45 days old. A complete tragedy is an understatement. It was not communicated to me, but they; pastors including my son's in-laws, my son, his wife, and other leaders gathered and attempted to raise my dead grandchild by demanding God do so. The trauma this engrained I can only imagine. My son has since started attending another church, but obviously is still very involved with this previous body. We are looking for a new place of worship, which will be a journey, because these types of churches are everywhere and we are tired of watery kool-aid sprinkled with new age manifest inheritance garbage.

[@JuliexSteadman]

..how upsetting, that they moved into the building that Cal Pierce was using for his healing rooms !! wow !! the take over is very subtle... i was reading the forward to counterfiet revival by Haank Haanagraaf and I think it was Steve Hill? (former vineyard pastor) describing his experience of when the kansas city prophets moved in under john wimber.. How the bible got thrown out and everyone was running here there and everywhere for a prophecy, hence the super duper prophets (with more power than the original 12 LOL) ended up running the show...

[@denniscrumbley8274]

Excellent video Jesse! I was recently severely reprimanded by the elders of the church I attended for teaching against false teachers and teachings including Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation churches. We have left that church. I wish the entire elder board would watch this video.

[@thewestwoodhome]

🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@ExodusPrime-x5h]

@@theearthlaughs4251 I understand where you're coming from but that very thing of "what it means to me" has even caused some believers to say that the Gospel is loving your neighbor as yourself, this in itself is a symptom of a wider problem which is biblical illiteracy. Passages understood in context isn't nitpicking but is holding to how they would have been understood when they were written. You should absolutely be able to ask questions and it should be the responsibility of those in authority to be able to provide one no matter how challenging. There are billions of people out there in the world who want to just live their lives free from accountability who would also ask those proclaiming the life saving message of the Gospel to "reel themselves in". I have encountered many, many people who through taking verses and passages out of context lead them into another gospel entirely. There are also a great many people of other faiths who face eternal separation from God because they ignore what scripture is saying and hold to "what it means for me". Because of good understanding of scripture, it led people like Martin Luther to oppose the Catholic Churches acceptance of burning supposed heretics alive. I think we can both agree that's a good thing. You have the freedom to question now because people stood on the authority and inerrancy of the Bible. With my sons when we cross the road I always ask them to hold my hand, they don't want to and fight against me on it but I'm not doing it to stifle them, it's to keep them safe. It's the same with the Bible, sin is something that if left can destroy your spiritual relationship with God and even destroy you. The scriptures are given to us to protect us from the temporal effects of sin both spiritually and earthly.

[@janicephillips6813]

@@ExodusPrime-x5h the enemy is depending on us NOT reading our Bibles. I cannot stress that enough!! Read God's revealed Word!! It's all right there!!

[@jeannetteparry5587]

I tried to warn too and didn't get all that far. But the Lord hasn't given permission to leave, and there are some lovely godly people there. Deception seems rampant everywhere these days, but that in itself is a sign that the "Day of the Lord" is near

[@theearthlaughs4251]

@@ExodusPrime-x5h why would you allow someone else to tell you what the bible means to you. there are biblical scholars who will talk about scripture, and they rarely state one interpretation. they usually give a few and then say which one believe. The bible is the living word because even tho it stays the same, somehow you will always find a verse that hits you and feels like it is written for now. like lovers of self. look at IG, people posting selfies all day. there is another verse that says if you do something and you feel it is wrong even if the bible doesn't say it, then it is wrong for you. there are a whole lot of crazy ass Christians who need to reel it in. I would never abandon the bible, no matter what i read or liked, It will always remain my foundation. I think that parents who raise their children from the bible without forcing them to go to church or believe or even read the bible instills a sense of morality. there are people that don't believe and still have a strong sense of morality and amazing character, i just believe that it comes from the bible. I don't speak much about it in my day-to-day life, I'm only a KZbin bible pusher. Honestly when i was young i would ask any guy I dated If they believed in God, saying it and meaning aren't the same. religion is petty, God is not. I don't want to change scripture but sometimes its fun to try and figure out what things like "being caught up to meet God in the sky, or Jesus returning on a cloud" It is prophesy and prophesy is not always literal. Religious fanatics are not supposed to be burning, hanging, beating, or harassing others. God does not force us to believe and any government that allows that is evil. too far extreme on either side meets in the middle as evil. The bible is a map of words so that we don't get too far off path while living our lives. We all sin, and it does keep us from God if we continue, but Jesus already died for our sins. I am no saint but i try to live a lifestyle that keep me close to God. Sometimes other people can keep us from God with their chaos. I don't like a person with a closed mind but i also don't like a mind, so open people's brain falls out and they no foundation. people need a solid foundation to build upon.

[@keithwood6459]

During a tough time some believers in my city really ministered to me over a long period. They had come out of Bethel and were still big fans. I have a Reformed church background and theological education in a Baptist-leaning school. I already knew my Bible really well, and am by nature super wary and cautious about spiritual adventurism. I have to see it in scripture in a compelling way before I start to open up. This couple was the most loving, gracious pair of people I had ever known and I am still convinced The Lord sent them into my life to help me during my rough patch, which lasted a few years. I was unaware of Bethel at the time, but gradually learned more about them, and even went over there a couple times. Met lots of loving people, and made a lifelong friend I still keep up with. But the "drunk in the Spirit" stuff was unacceptable - I was going to remain sober and alert. Bill Johnson's acceptance of Osteen, Benny Hin, etc, etc, was always really concerning, as well as the fact they had their books in the bookstore. So I never got sucked in. But I did learn some things about praying for healing, and some other things, that have born fruit. But all my practice is kept close to Scripture and always has been. That's going to be my guide and test piece. Our salvation is about bringing glory to Jesus and coming into alignment with him in repentance, faith, hope, love, as guided by the Scriptures, not promoting and pursuing experience. So I still hold to my theological roots, but I would have to say that couple had a huge positive impact on my life when things were hard, but it was because of their love, not Bethel. Sadly they have gone back there and are now getting increasingly messed up. It's all Book of Enoch and experiences all the time, and all that stuff. Mystical garbage. So sad. These videos by Mike and Westwoods' reply are so important. I had no idea how bad Bethel had become. It's really bad. Really, really bad. They have become the counterfeit.

[@ajb.822]

Well, from that and some other's I've heard who've come out of there, it sounds like they're surpassing counterfeit and going fast towards fairly obviously occult ! Glad you had that foundation and I'm guessing, were born again and had the Holy Spirit giving you that "check" yours. Like Jeff Durbin has wisely, scripturally shared and I think I needed to hear, discernment probably isn't a feeling but the things the Bible says to do to discern, yet there is also that sense, that check in your spirit that I wouldn't even describe as a normal feeling even, although whether it's me and my feeling or one of those and from a Spirit, hopefully God ! ( thus, check every spirit, check against the Bible, and check our own feelings against it too of course !).

[@therealnico2]

52:50 "The issue of your deception is not about gods power, but it's about you straying from what he said" This is such a wise sentence, that you can tell its gods word in his heart, speaking through Mike. I had the same reaction as Jesse after that one :D

[@charlesbrown9749]

I have been following Mike for almost 3yrs, and am so thankful this channel has been recommended. I need all the help I can get

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@IronKore]

But please, also read for yourself as well, and understand the scriptures so that you may not be mislead in anyway

[@wynelleu]

I love great worship music! As a singer, it is so deflating to find a piece of music so incredibly uplifting & seemingly worshipful, only to find the words to be twisted away from Jesus, to focus on "my" power. I feel like so much of it is coming directly from the Serpent in The Garden. God loves us & desires relationship with us. He doesn't need us to tune the music for healing. He just heals, immediately, without pretense, pomp or circumstance. He heals as He chooses with discernment beyond our comprehension.

[@taaron5595]

The combo of Mike Winger and Jesse explaining the things coming out of Bethel and the whole NAR movement had been by far the best most clear explanation I’ve heard thus far. I’ve read Counterfeit Kingdom, and this video just ties it all together so well. Jesse’s explanation of how exactly they’re manipulating through the music is extremely helpful. I think every single person in every modern evangelical church needs to watch this video.

[@thewestwoodhome]

That’s high praise 🙌🏼 thank you

[@ICXC_Humbly]

When I was born again, the 1st church I ended up at had a pastor that went to BSSM and as a former new-ager that was tuned into the new-age language.... I knew I HAD to leave! Thankful for youtube ministries exposing the darkness and for the Holy Spirit leading and guiding me to the TRUTH!

[@misfitnichole]

Thank you for this video!! I am also coming out of the charismatic chaos. 30 years in our church and our “pastors “ one female decided to take a “sabbatical “ and do a year at Bethel. While they were there I was having terrible health issues and they kept referring me to Bill Johnson’s teachings! I couldn’t for the life of me get into them. Asked my husband to watch he felt the same. The Holy Spirit was checking me. I saw one of your videos and started researching and reading the Bible (which I never read before even being in the church for 30 years!). I appreciate your heart amd I am also now a cessation and LOVE apologetics due to this false church. When we tried to ask our pastors and I sent them a few videos they called you and ex disgruntled student. I knew your heart and I understood that this was not the truth. Thank you for speaking out and helping others leave or wake up from this false movement. Praying for our family and friends of our former church everyday that they wake up as well. I thank God everyday for having the grace and mercy on me to pull me out. I also thank Him for honest and true shepherds like Chris Rosebrough and Justin Peters and you also Jesse! God bless you and your family!

[@susanbender6029]

I came across your video and caught my attention that you are a Bethel Alumni. I decided to watch to listen to both assessments. I appreciate your comments commenting on Pastor Mike's video. Thank you.

[@lorianthony4749]

Thank you so much, Jesse. I had watched Mike's video and found it really well done (as his videos always are). Your commentary and sharing your own observations/ experiences really enhanced the message.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Wow, thank you! I was really hoping it would add to an already amazing video. Thank you so much for that.

[@stephanieparsons1056]

I just found your channel. Its heartbreaking to hear these things are happening to people who desperately want the Lord. When you speak about this i see pain in your eyes. Im very grateful you are ok and not being deceived. My heart is weeping for those still hungry for the Lord and are literally starving to death because of this culture. It really distresses me.

[@araci88]

"The cross is not the demonstration of your worth, is the demonstration of your wickedness. 🙏✝" Thank you so much for that phrase.

[@heidibrown997]

I think it is both. We have to keep it in balance. We can't think ourselves worthless, as some pastors I heard tell us over and over. No, if that were true, our Father in heaven would not have paid so high a price for our redemption. But then again, it is HE who made us worthy. This love should astound us more each day. And to KNOW this love, is to KNOW GOD Almighty and be filled with the FULNESS of God. In that FULNESS we can now see others with HIS love. I have heard it said that to love God truly is to hate evil. First in our own heart, then in others, seeing what it does to them.

[@texasoutlook60]

Both of you have demonstrated what discernment is all about and it has been done with love! Thank you both for standing firm!!

[@chesterfamilychurch3390]

Watched Mikes Bethel exposure yesterday and he did such a good job. Thank you for adding to what he revealed. My prayer is that the folks that are in this terrible movement will have the veil from their eyes removed and they will RUN from Bethel churches. Keep up the good work. Blessings from Chester UK

[@thewestwoodhome]

🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼

[@forevermenot777]

After watching Mike's video, I appreciated this response. It is so sobering to hear that this is all "a product of the culture." Thank you for adding your voice to these warnings.

[@esquireofthelord]

Thanks so much for sharing from your experience on this and adding invaluable insight to Mike's already humble but strong critique/rebuke of Bethel's false doctrine. My heart is grieved for those who are deceived.

[@beckykip4905]

Thank you for weighing in! There really is a sense that these things are on the fringe but you and Mike have made it clear that this is a culture that they have cultivated over years. So grateful you are speaking out.

[@beckykip4905]

All Glory to God for calling his ppl back to him. May he work mightily in the lives of those still stuck in this deception!

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@adriennelarue465]

Thank you for this 🙂 I was part of MorningStar Ministries with Rick Joyner and have really struggled to sort thru everything. What has helped me the most was the realization that what they taught were occult techniques and the same experiences happen in those circles. I've listened to a lot of David Hunt too in the process to discover the truth

[@zechdobbin1938]

This is great! Thank you for adding to his video to verify. Nice to have scripture and a witness .

[@randyskolrud7920]

LOVED seeing your child come sit in your lap while you were doing all that:) This Dad of 6 sees it, and it warms my heart for when my kiddos could still fit in my lap! Plus the bonus of your thoughtful comments too! Blessings on your whole tribe:)

[@RaptureReadyPam]

I’m so glad Mike Winger finally called this movement out. Thank you as well for affirming what he said. May the Lord open our eyes, bringing us from darkness to light, from the power of Satan to God for the forgiveness of our sins that we may receive inheritance among the sanctified through faith in Christ Jesus. (Acts 26:18)

[@Christopher_Lind]

Out of college I had a number of friends that got sucked into this, and I wrote it off as getting a bit eccentric. Over the years as I’ve matured in my walk, it’s become so much more apparent it extends way beyond the boundaries sound theology, or Christianity at all. I watched Mike’s version right after he released it and ended up sharing it with a bunch of folks and will do the same with yours. Really enjoyed watching your additional commentary on it having lived and experienced it. You bring an additional layer of depth that highlights how serious this is. So often these out-of-bounds examples are written off as exceptions or attributed to a few folks that went off the reservation.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks!

[@brich2542]

Listening to Mike's video, I was shocked that any Christian would listen to such teaching (Bethel's). I literally come from a Charismatic background. I have no problem with gifts of the Spirit. But what these people are teaching is obviously another religion.

[@prettysmart6625]

Hi Jesse, I became a Christian in 2004 (TX) and thankfully was at a bible teaching church at the time for my first year but then after the Pastor there got sick and had to resign and he was replaced with a "Rick Warren" following Pastor from CA and he didn't continue the bible studies. As a single woman back then, I was looking for a new church but had trouble finding a bible teaching church and found myself hopping between a seeker church to Charismatic churches and chose to stick with the "seemingly lively" charismatic church. Then in 2007 that church started inviting the Bethel Pastors to a Church called "Church of the Hills in Cedar Park, TX which I attended at the time. Bill Johnson came to that church once a year as well as we had Kim Walker coming and a couple of the other Bethel Pastors. I went to Dawna DiSilvas Sozo conferences and got involved in all that. That church adopted all the Bethel ministries like Healing Rooms, Sozo, Treasure Hunting etc.....I was also involved in those. That church fell apart in 2014 when Senior Pastor resigned and many left and switched to True Life Fellowship Church in Round Rock, TX, which is a sister church and still to this day still does the BSSM, AHR, Sozo etc. The Pastor's son with last name "Neusch" also was part of the Bethel pastoral Team at one point. I don't know if you know him. My family left that church in 2017 as we just didn't feel at home there and we longed for a church with more biblical teaching. Everything and everyone Bethel-related seemed to be idolized there and we didn't see why we are supposed to pay thousands of dollars for the BSSM classes. It just all didn't make sense to us from a biblical perspective. Anyways, I started seeing the truth around 2020 with their false presidential prophecies and also people Like Jan Markel (Olive Tree Ministries) and Amir Tsarfati mentioned the NAR in a discussion they had on youtube and mentioned Bethel, grave soaking etc. and suddenly I just couldn't make excuses anymore. I just couldn't see how all this is biblical. Since then, my eyes just kept opening about the Bethel movement, or Graham Cooke and all associates and I realized I have been under deception for quire sometime. So I've been healing spiritually as well. My husband hasn't been so deeply involving himself into their theology and ministries like me, he was always skeptical and kept his involvement at a superficial level, served in Trail Life etc. but not any of the crazy spiritual ministries. So good for him. He was glad when I finally saw the light and the deception. Your story so resonates with me and I went through many of the same things and have been reading the bible from cover to cover again and again throughout the year since then to rid myself of the false statements and false teachings that they have brainwashed us with for so long. Greetings, Sue

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for sharing

[@maxemrich8778]

Hello, I don't know Bethel very well myself. But since my conversion I have been in charismatic circles. For me it was always clear that the supernatural exists and God is still working today - not only the devil. Now, hearing and learning about these things where it's off... I wonder how to disentangle all the spiritual practices and teachings. I don't even know what is from Bethel (or some other false church or cult) and what not. Or even if I would know - not everything must be wrong, just because Bethel does ist, right? So difficult... you have some thoughts/experiences on that?

[@maxemrich8778]

Hey, thanks for sharing. Can you tell which discussion of Amir Tasarfati and Jan markel? Is there a KZbin video?

[@carolinejohnson4359]

Thank you I watched pastor Mike's video and now am to the worship or sound part here in yours. The almost overwhelming feeling or since I get could be called fear. This is so much more then it appears on the surface, and that's plentiful on its own. Dangerous is putting it mildly. Praise God that He who is in us is mighty and over all.

[@lovetruth9720]

O my gosh. You guys have become so precious to us. We cannot tell you how much your story and your validating the experiences we went through, means to us. I hope you were able to get that interview with Mike. I'm going through your videos so I haven't gotten through them all yet to find out if you did but I hope you guys were able to connect and compare stories and summations. I'm so ooo thankful for this channel. This has been so healing for me. Praying God's blessing on you and your family.

[@flynnhuseby3431]

Absolutely excellent, and in-depth overview! Love your heart on the matter! Keep sticking to God's Word alone!

[@S.Carpenter]

This was very well done, well worth it too. We have folks who show us how to compare the word of God to what people are SAYING God says, and those who point out false teachers, and those who help us see how false teaching works. Now we have the wisdom of that laid in front of someone who was actually there and can confirm those things he has seen and was taught. This is not just "bashing" for the sake of bashing. This is what I call "two or three witnesses". Well done gentlemen, and thank you for sighing through this sad and difficult stuff for others to see so they can know the truth!

[@Lisa-ux8ri]

I had a friend, started getting into bethels books including this one. Is now full blown new age with crystals, trips to heaven, all about vibrations, cards, stars, yoga, everything. Still goes to the local bethel church I believe and talks about Jesus like he is behind all and in all of her new age things. Heartbreaking. I think churches just dont teach correctly God's word and so instead we become all about experiences and feelings and the latest thing, prime picking for deception. It was so hard to find church which taught from the bible and had a pastor who stressed the importance of knowing God's word

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for sharing

[@lilpoohbear653]

for sure...just saying...it is way more than "just dont teach correctly"...it is direct demonic heretical antibiblical teaching

[@benrichards8809]

Thank you for your video. I stumbled across this one because my wife and I watched Mike Wingers video a few days ago. We are out of Kentucky and we have churches here that follow some of bethels teachings and we are hoping to bring awareness by sharing these videos.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you !

[@maggieprice357]

I really appreciate the way that Mike Winger handles basically every topic that he covers. He speaks the truth but clearly does it in love and from a humble heart. I also love that he does it from the perspective of a guy who ISN’T Reformed. I am Reformed-leaning in my theology, myself, but I do think that solid, biblical perspectives outside of our theological echo chamber can often be helpful. That’s why I listen to the Remnant Radio guys. I often don’t agree with them but they’re sound charismatic guys exegeting scripture well and they do check things against scripture, which you’re right that you don’t find that much in charismatic circles.

[@chebbohagop]

Thanks so much, Jesse.

[@dubyag4124]

Brother I'm a reformed cessationist and I love brother Mike for the same reasons as you, and you have the same gentle spirit, you are a gift from God to cast light on the darkness. Keep doing it. Now about salvation and Gospel matters; Brother YES, this is about eternal life and eternal death. In our current world, "authenticity" is the greatest "truth". What is the greatest expression of authenticity? Sincerity. So we have a hard time condemning sincerity even when we know the person is in error. God will not judge us by our sincerity but what truth we place our faith in, EVEN IF we don't hold it very sincerely (crazy eh?). My small imperfect faith in Christ is infinitely more valuable than my sincere faith in a chair I'm sitting in. The object is what matters. Faith of a mustard seed right? Our level of sincerity matters not - and even our level of faith matters not - its the object of our seed of faith that matters completely - Christ alone in his finished work. One can be sincere and sincerely WRONG as they say. Many sincere souls will be in hell sadly unless someone tells them the truth. The people Jesus himself condemns to hell in Matt 7:21 are very sincere, which is why the were shocked, saying "Lord Lord!". If we love them we must tell them you sincerely believe you're on the narrow path to life, but you're on a wide path to destruction. The world is evangelizing YOU, not the other way around. Bless you and praying for you!

[@dubyag4124]

This teaching BTW is exactly how the Passion Bible was produced and moreso how Jesus Calling was produced. Be careful, be discerning, beloved.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you!

[@lotusrosemassagetherapy8134]

Thank you so much for coming out with this! I remember trying out Rev before Jesus changed me and getting some weird vibes. I reached out via phone early on in covid, desperate for "something" I never received a call back . :( My family hit the road for a year in our RV and the Lord touched our lives along the way with divine meetings of prayer from strangers in multiple states. We have settled in SW Wa and have found a wonderful, gospel centered church. Our God is a great god!

[@7thdaysunshine596]

Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I’d already watched Mike Winger’s video, but hearing your insight really helped me! I’d passed up the opportunity to go to BSSM a few times and always wondered if I’d missed God’s calling for me. Now I’m solid on the understanding that it was the Holy Spirit giving me the feeling that something was off there. Thank you both so much! 🙏🏻

[@twanettefourie3131]

Thank you, dear brother. I watched Mike's video. The two videos together are greatly edifying and valuable!

[@LionelduPlessis]

Hi. I’m actually very blessed by your reactions - I only watched because your video popped up (probs the algorithm lol) after watching my favorite apologist - Mike Winger! I’m from South Africa 🇿🇦 and we (me mostly tbh) are quite concerned about the lack of solid theology in our church regarding eschatology- this week we started a six week series called “purpose”. Yep. Not exactly the saddleback man, but there are some quotes by him… and many in the congregation have actually done the 40 day purpose driven life course… so there’s that. But also the love of all things Bethel… ugh. Anyway. I’m sure I’ll try and ask you stuff in the near future. Thanks once again. Lovely video!

[@colette6984]

I appreciate how Mike communicates as well.

[@brennanpomposelli7504]

While I personally categorize myself as believing that the gifts are still for us today as believers of Jesus. We always have to keep the main thing the main thing..and that is Jesus. When we start to idolize the gifts of God (prophecy, tongues, miracles,deliverance) we than put those gifts on a pedi stool above Jesus himself. It’s like people who call out to the universe for help rather than calling on the one who created the universe in the first place to help.

[@CyrusBee]

Thank you Westwoods. This supplementary reaction video to Mike Winger’s stream is very insightful :) thanks

[@thewestwoodhome]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@116stuart]

I came to check the video out after Pastor Mike Winger posted about it and as someone who is (together with people around me too) influenced by Bethel a lot, of which nothing ever felt off or wrong and I seriously never saw the dangerous teachings that people spoke off. But the more this video went on the more I realized how some of the experiences and things that we were doing in our circles and church were based on these teachings. I actually remember doing the Prophetic Exercise in my former church (which got most of it's influence from Bethel), the pastor told us to pick a partner and start ''prophesying" over your partner, since it was an online meeting we were texting to each other and we were told to just start typing the first thing to come into our minds and that it will eventually make sense and you will pick up the prophetic the more you do it. Nothing felt off doing it and after I actually "prophesied" to the partner I was assigned to she actually confirmed that what I had said was 100% accurate and also what she told felt also to be accurate. I never gave much thought to that exercise until today whilst watching this and a lot more things are now coming to mind and I think most people are actually practicing a lot of these questionable things with very good intentions and without any knowledge of it being heretical or unbiblical. I really appreciate you for speaking on this and I pray that more people can actually watch this so that they may turn from their deceitful ways and we all come to the true knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

[@wilpetersheim2688]

This is great! BTWN and Mike Winger had a discussion going last fall about this very thing and now it seems Mike Winger has finally come around! PTL!

[@terrimobley6067]

I had no idea how bad it had gotten. I had already excised Bethel Music from my playlists. I am a big fan of Mike Winger...I LOVE how much he brings the Bible to understanding. I don't always agree with his views but it's always on peripheral issues and I always respect his study. His heart is humble and attitude is there's always more to learn from God's word

[@robmaclean491]

Thanks for putting this video together. Eye opening.

[@salgar1234]

I can honestly say I have no need of a miracle. If I never saw a miracle I would not lose my faith, I would follow my lord every day by faith in his Written Word.

[@anthonyanderson9771]

Amen Sally! His resurrection and winning my heart to love those that hate me are great enough miracles, but He also answers prayer, provides, and has preserved His Word throughout all these millennia! Thank You Jesus! The Word > The miraculous For we did not follow cleverly concocted fables when we made known to you the power and return of our Lord Jesus Christ; no, we were eyewitnesses of his grandeur. For he received honor and glory from God the Father, when that voice was conveyed to him by the Majestic Glory: “This is my dear Son, in whom I am delighted.” When this voice was conveyed from heaven, we ourselves heard it, for we were with him on the holy mountain. Moreover, we possess the prophetic word as an altogether reliable thing. You do well if you pay attention to this as you would to a light shining in a murky place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 2 Peter 1:16‭-‬19 NET

[@hippyhebrewhomestead8593]

It’s definitely a large amount to digest, revelation talks about the deception and great falling away. Thank you for this it bring clarity to a lot of questions I have had.

[@RayHonorheart]

Truly blessed by this, as someone who came out of both a NAR multi-site church and Dark Poverty Theology, this was truly encouraging. Keep up the great work Jesse!!

[@1Kiminca]

Oh are “their heels dug in hard”. This is so hard to talk to people about. Great video.

[@mamuklutze6474]

" the cross is not a sign of our worth, the cross is a sign of our weaknesses " yes our heart is so wicked...

[@colette6984]

I watched the original video of Mike's, and I appreciated hearing your first-hand account and the way you tie it into what's in some Christian circles. I've definitely experienced some of these things and have repented and will continue to repent as I remember what I've participated in. Thanks for your video! God bless brother.

[@greentree730]

I pray over the weather all the time, I went to a fellowship time last night. It was pouring rain so hard and very dark. I got to the meeting and prayed before going in, to my Father. I asked Him to shut down the rain if possible for the way home. It was His kindness when I left, the rain had lightened up and I got home safe. The difference between my experience and bethel is mine is about a deep loving relationship not me having power.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Can you pray for God to change the weather? Absolutely are we entitled to demand it just as Christ did? absolutely not.

[@thestraightroad305]

@@thewestwoodhome Such a great distinction. We are the creature, not the Creator. I also ask the Lord humbly for weather favorable to drought impacted farmers and livestock, or that my peach tree can survive a four day freeze when it bloomed too early. Is it silly? I don’t think so because I know Who has the real power, that He has His own plans, and I’m asking in humility because He is my Father. I know very well that my request may not have priority. But I am invited to ask.

[@thestraightroad305]

Beautiful story. I love His kindness toward us.

[@Ephesians-yn8ux]

I think something worth noting is that sometimes when you pray for something, the answer could be NO.

[@thestraightroad305]

@@Ephesians-yn8ux Exactly.

[@DerekHerbst747]

I've held Bethel and their like in suspicion for a long time. These videos confirm it for me. The "progressive" churches have switched to the first lie ever told: You will be like God. Their main lure is pleasing the flesh. All the tickles and thrills give the followers a pseudo spiritual experience. It's a sad situation because if you eat the fruit of that tree you will surely die.

[@TheDahveeed]

I love how he talks about Sedona. I live two hours from there and we take trips there to the woods all the time and it's so whack. When we pass through it's an incredible amount of crap and seeing that this is where they pull so much info from is astounding.

[@dver89]

Great video. Thank you for confirming what Mike said in his video.

[@JuliexSteadman]

..amen. so helpful as bethel claim that this book isnt from them and if it is that its just peripheral and not on their book store !! Bill Johnson claims his chapter was taken against his will and put in the book !!!"£$% ha ha ha ha

[@JuliaHumphrey]

Thank you for this video. I follow Mike. I listen but always think, he’s looking from the outside in. Now I know that my discernment was correct!!!! Your confirmation of the existence of these false teaching helps immensely!

[@thewestwoodhome]

You are so welcome!

[@laurenewilson9999]

Thank you a million and The Lord bless you to reach many many who have been led astray!!!!

[@beam3819]

As a new beliver I was in the word of faith, charismatic church and I almost lost my faith. Therfor I am grateful for everone with knowlegde exposing the horrible hyper charismatic churches, so thanks for the important warning against the false church.

[@Smart_cooky]

Thank you so much. Amazing depth of learning here

[@horrendous_karaoke]

I appreciate your commentary as someone who attended BSSM. I’m in the online version and always felt like I didn’t belong because I had trouble with prophecies and the ‘encounters’. I’m not feeling bad about my ‘lack of experience’ anymore. 😁

[@jennprescott2757]

It’s actually so faith destroying to be in it! I was in a bethel-like cult and if you aren’t having these supernatural experiences, you aren’t worthy or holy/spirit filled/spiritual/good enough. Soon enough you also start lying to yourself and mimicking what’s going on. It’s so shameful. I am so glad I am out of there and know the word of God now.

[@bobs8005]

@@jennprescott2757and that’s also why people open themselves to familiar spirits

[@RCGWho]

How much does the online version cost?

[@horrendous_karaoke]

@@RCGWho They had full and part time options back then. I think it was around 5K a yr for full time, which is what I did. I can’t recommend their program.

[@RCGWho]

@@horrendous_karaoke I'm not interested in attending. These churches are making bank on these schools. I've read terrible things about Jesus School, Benny Hinn's daughters school in FL.

[@MyLifeRefining]

As a kid that grew up in the Pentecostal/charismatic/evangelical church through the 80’s and 90’s and briefly into the ‘00’s before I just decided to completely “unchurch” so I could disentangle myself from all the horrible and false doctrines I’d been exposed through by my parents and church leaders and the modern worship movement. As a teenager and young adult I was taken on and took repeated “meccas” to the Toronto Vineyard Church and the ONEThing Conferences by IHOP in Kansas City, and also had my own experience with YWAM Denver. I am SO grateful for videos like this. It has helped me realize how much it all STILL influences my thinking and theology (and lack thereof) and, the saddest part, what I believe and know about, and expect from God and believe and know God expects and wants for me. With His spirit and His word alone, I’ll stay submitted to this long process. He is dealing with me kindly and I’m grateful for His mercy and holiness.

[@RCGWho]

How do you see Toronto now?

[@mb1015]

I am immensely grateful for your video, and Mike's too. I have shared all those experiences you talk about through an offshoot of Bethel in UK (Eastgate), which is basically a Bethel copy, with a supernatural school, healing centre and heavenly encounters, fire tunnels, holy laughter, readings, soaking, sozos. I also had the Judy Franklin experience (she visited here, as did other leaders). Everyone is an apostle or prophet, and there is a distinct lack of humility, repentance and sacrificial love. Covid lockdowns meant God was able to realign me, and put me back on the right path. My heart was broken, and I continue to feel deep grief for those caught up in this. But God has moved mightily since coming out of it, my sons got saved!!!! Getting over it has been like ptsd, and I am also still unravelling but think I'm getting there. Had to pick up the Word of God like I was starting again from the beginning.

[@Sooner-im9qf]

Glad for you. Sounds like this is at least one thing good that came out of the Covid lock downs.

[@GmaJoKeepingitReal]

Well reviewed. Thank you for taking the time to go through this. Mike did an excellent job and I so agree that he is "slow to speak", nice job and again thank you! GmaJo

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for watching!

[@RMVicary]

So grateful for these videos. You have to know they are extremely helpful when the Bible is opened up to reveal how false these teachings of the NAR are or of any false teacher. Thank you a million times for exposing the error with God’s word!!! And for your testimony!! May God be glorified in this!!

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@t0nyxgq]

"If you don't stand for anything, you fall for everything." Amen!

[@alliehill4076]

Thankyou Jesse for your broken-heartedness, which has enabled me to listen to this (Mike’s tone is the same) I have stopped after an hour of this video(already listened to about the same if Mike’s) because I am so heavy and tearful I need a break before listening to the rest. I love Bethel and love their genuineness and eagerness for the Lord, but not more than I love the Lord, his word and his truth. Most critiques of Bethel I have tried to listen to are hysterical, emotional, angry, disrespectful, ugly, and worst of all distorting the words of Bill and Kris and others so that in the end the weight of unbiblical behaviour of the those critiquing has left me so aghast that it feels like Bethel is vindicated (and in fact is on some issues) I genuinely feel I have gained some very good things from Bethel which are indeed God’s truth from his word. it would take a huge amount of time to explain from scripture and then answer those who would disagree so I won’t even try , but my bigger point is that I have had to do a lot of bone-spitting ! , which I agree is not a biblical concept(the bible teaches that teachers and pastors should indeed protect their flocks) THE ONLY REASON I COULD SPIT THE BONES ANYWAY IS BECAUSE I HAVE HAD 40 YEARS OF BIBLICAL TEACHING TO DRAW ON , WHICH , ALONG WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, I SUBMIT TO IN HUMILITY AND OBEDIENCE. Without that , I can see how people can become horribly messed up in many ways by this movement. A (ex)friend of mine believes in this quantum weirdness, although interestingly hates Bill and Bethel with a passion. I have been concerned about these exact issues for along time but needed someone to do the heavy lifting to properly and carefully evaluate biblically these things without entering into ungodly pride and self- righteousness. I am not a cessation , but I can see how charismatics can end up in this sort of place, by basically neglecting the word and ending up in error. Thanks again for your heart of godly sorrow, spirit of mourning, and also caring about God’s word and his people enough to be careful with your words and the tone in which you say them. Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you so much for sharing this 🙏🏼

[@MCNN2891]

I am a graduate of a Bible college-a Rhema college-this is all quite familiar. We were supposed to basically read each other's minds-I think many were faking it-I could not. I was the only one in my class. I thought something was wrong with me.

[@clarelaff1883]

As a former BSSM student as well, I am enjoying these videos. I used to think Bill was not aware of the New Age stuff at Bethel but when Mike Winger read portions of Judy’s book, I realized his eyes are wide open, since he encouraged Judy that she can’t be deceived. I am feeling betrayed honestly

[@thewestwoodhome]

When did you go?

[@clarelaff1883]

Fall 2008. I did all 3 years.

[@thewestwoodhome]

We went at the same time!!!!! Who was your RGP? Email me? [e-mail]

[@clarelaff1883]

Sent an email 😊

[@alionaking10]

Same here! Unlearning a lot. 🫠 it's been more recently for me, so lots of questions and research are going on 😅🥲

[@myronthiessen]

I just want to say I appreciate your work. I also came out of health and wealth church and I also have a hunger to keep to the truth and only the truth while maintaining love and compassion

[@DavidSandyOfficial]

"Thus says the LORD of hosts, “Do not listen to the words of the [false] prophets who prophesy to you. They are teaching you worthless things and are leading you into futility; They speak a vision of their own mind and imagination and not [truth] from the mouth of the LORD." Jeremiah 23:16

[@Egf.]

Yes! Thank you from Switzerland! ❤

[@billanderson1965]

We really do appreciate you sharing your experience and shedding light on this "church". I hope Mike has you on. I would also recommend Doreen Virtue and Melissa Dougherty and talking to them. They are great!!

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks!

[@hanab837]

Yes! Both of those women are wonderful.

[@freemediasociety7866]

New fan of your channel. God bless.

[@aenema22]

I followed a "prophesy" made over me by a random lady at the Bethel healing rooms, thinking it must be God's will. It ended up being incredibly damaging in every way imaginable.

[@expressoevangelism80]

We used to have a pastor who was really sold on everything Bill Johnson said and did which initially drew me in, however when I started listening to Johnson talk, it was obvious that he had his planted sheep in the congregation, who would give verbal support on cue, and I began to get rather jaded by his style and left him alone. One of the lesser discussed spiritual gifts is discernment. There was an obvious need for this at the time of writing the book of Acts. That need is apparent now, as it always has been. When people teach from selected verses in detachment from the complete context that should always be thoroughly investigated.

[@Su_aSponte]

Don’t know who you are but I pray Our Father will bless you and keep you! May he stir up even more jealousy for his Word and his Bride so that we will not be ashamed at Jesus return! I left my church community back in ‘06 because i was so dismayed by the general error. I needed help and they could not help me. It has taken me a really long time and through some dangerous paths to even begin to be set right. Thank God for his patience and the Word of Truth. Thank God for his faithfulness. I used to call a lot of what I was seeing “christian witchcraft”. It makes me sad to know how accurate that was. It’s sad because science does glorify our God without being some sneaky weird mystical knowledge you can just dabble in. This western church needs to be taught church history and real biblical study. It doesn’t need some miraculous revival. It needs study, knowledge, sincere service, patience, truthfulness and to do actual good works. Instead we have platforms and parlor tricks, manipulation, blindness, deception, itchy ears, confident assertions of total falsity and deception. It’s not okay. I really love a lot of these teachers too. I love James Gall and Ray Hughes especially but they have got to wake up and get out. I think IHOP is wonderful and I am concerned with the connections they seem to retain to this movement. Idk know what the wise thing to do would be because God loves and is jealous for the people enmeshed in and swept up in this movement but I pray and petition the Lord to give our leaders boldness and wisdom to denounce this delusion even at this stage of maturation it has been allowed to achieve. Help us Father, forgive us Holy Spirit, know us, search us and lead us Jesus. We are sick, blind, deaf, naked, poor and in peril. Save us Lord! Amen

[@judyharrold4656]

Thanks!

[@thewestwoodhome]

No problem!

[@thewestwoodhome]

Oh just noticed this was a super chat wow thank you so much ❤

[@erikapenales5238]

Loved the video, Jesse! The level & place at which you’re addressing this is unique & necessary. Similar to what would’ve happened had Lindsay Davis continued on to speak about her experiences at Bethel more publicly (I bet she does! But I meant more in the soc med aspect). I giggled at the part where you said “… if I was a more well-read Christian at the time being at Bethel…” then you wouldn’t have been at Bethel at all haha! Keep the videos rolling, brother. Praying for your (now) ministry on KZbin

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@rafraf4613]

🎉🎉🙌🏽

[@pastorrandy]

I feel it is important here to state that the Charismatic Movement did not begin as it is now. The first Charismatics were people in historic mainline churches who loved Jesus and loved the Scriptures. They began seeking for more of the Holy Spirit in their lives a little bit after World War 2. Instead of breaking away from their churches like the Classical Pentecostals were forced to do at the beginning of the 20th century, they were encouraged to stay in their historic churches and bring renewal to them. The first and second generations of Charismatics were as I said, very committed to Scripture and to experiencing more of God through the Holy Spirit, but not in the same way as modern Charismatics. At the same time that the first generation of the Charismatic Movement was budding, there were other movements as well in the Classical Pentecostal Movement, such as the New Order of the Latter Rain that sprung up and were tested by denominatoins such as the Assemblies of God and were rejected. These rejected movements found their way into the Charismatic Movement because the Charismatic Movement was unorganized and decentralized. When the historic churches finally began rejecting the Charismatic influence in their churches, the Charismatics were "on their own"-so to speak- and began forming independent congregations. These independent congregations began being influenced by other movements such as the Word of Faith, the Latter Rain, etc. The end result is what we see today in the likes of Bethel.

[@tripletgirl2484]

Yes, Pastor Mike did a thourgh critique. Thanks for adding your experience to the conversation around this topic.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thank you 🙏🏼

[@sheilacockerham8837]

Oh my gosh! The video I needed! I couldn't click fast enough! I already watched Mike.

[@thewestwoodhome]

🙏🏼

[@natec615]

This might be the most fired up I've ever seen Mike, and I'm here for it.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Ikr????

[@Steadfast_Steady_Strong]

Watch Mike’s video on The Passion Translation - the one where his bookshelf lights are red in the background (because he’s done a few). He is fired up in that one! I think it’s a year or two old now. 😊 I just finished watching this Bethel video of Mike’s yesterday, and today this response video came up in my feed. I’m about halfway through and it’s great!

[@ReLair88]

Similar to the one Mike did on Brian Zahnd. He got really fired up on that one as well,, calling him a heretic.

[@TheQuickBrownFoxTV]

Thanks man. I went over to Bethel in 2015 for Worship U, I suffered first-time-in-my-life panic attacks that ruined years of my life... many times I just thought "man... are they just making stuff up???" during classes but I doubled down and pressed in, brought the teachings home to my own church. What a mess has ensued. Your video at least gives me permission to reframe my beliefs and drop some things that you've added an "Ah ha!" moment too. Strongs chaps. Love ya.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Thanks for this i appreciate it 🙏🏼

[@apriljbuchanan3683]

This was a very insightful reaction video that truly added so much more to the already great content in the original video.

[@thewestwoodhome]

Wow, thank you! Truly appreciate it. Mike did all the heavy lifting I just wasted time and money there lol

[@apriljbuchanan3683]

@@thewestwoodhome honestly, I don’t think you realize how much you added to that conversation. It made sense of parts that otherwise made no sense. We can see that it’s wrong with Mikes video but you help understand why they believe what they believe. His video shows that it’s counterfeit; your reaction helps see why people are deceived by the counterfeit.

[@thewestwoodhome]

@@apriljbuchanan3683 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼❤️❤️❤️🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@michelleverner7481]

This reminds me of the book of Daniel and Daniel replies "I cannot but the God of heaven can I interpret the dream ". It needs to come from God

[@gospelqr]

I really appreciate what you're doing here! Not that I would recommend anyone going through the school, but it's interesting how that experience uniquely enables you to help others see the problems with it, as someone who has firt-hand knowledge of what goes on. Keep producing valuable content to edify the Church/seeking first the Kingdom!

[@impalaman9707]

Just as the apostle Paul's own experience as a Pharisee uniquely qualified him to teach the errors of such