Backcountry Bindings // How to Pick a Pair

[@brocknordstrom7807]

best breakdown of pin bindings I have been able to find, am in SLC currently, will stop by. thanks!

[@bradenkerr5784]

splitboarder here just to see what an "under 20 lbs setup" look like

[@Charles-wz9sd]

Are you talking about just the board and bindings?

[@bradenkerr5784]

@@Charles-wz9sd just the bindings

[@DramasaurousRex]

This was your best gear video yet. Lots of great info. The Salomon version of the Atomic Backland is the MTN.

[@cnuila]

Thanks! I felt like it was pretty dry:)

[@christophernewport8207]

Have to agree, ATK makes the best tech bindings in the business right now.

[@Ranar14]

Hagan, BD, and Moment are all ATK made with just another logo lasered on them. Not a "different take" for anyone wondering. Although the Moment one does have a different toe stack (via a under binding plate) than the regular ATK version. I love my ATK stuff

[@cnuila]

Sorry guys, I’m as dry as a BYU professor on this one 🤓

[@cdizzle1001]

Great video Christof, thanks for all the info. I’ve just picked up a pair of Atomic Backlands and I’m looking for the right bindings for them. I’m between the Tectons, Kingpin, and Shift. Which ones do you think are superior?

[@johnwilliams4972]

It was more like a UVU professor dry. Thanks for the info.

[@sjldfilms5126]

Never! Always interesting.

[@cnuila]

@@cdizzle1001 if you’re skiing the resort at all with this ski I’d say Shift. That way you have a no compromise alpine binding you can ski hard and never worry about when riding the lifts but can still tour with a pin toe. If this is a dedicated touring setup, I’d first try and see if I could convince you to go with something a bit lighter, but between the Kingpin and Tecton its a bit of a wash I think. Whichever weighs less/looks better on your ski. I’ve skied kingpins and Danny had some Tectons and they both worked well for what they are.

[@cnuila]

@@johnwilliams4972 as a former Cougar AND Wolverine I’ll take that as a complement!

[@kodycoggin491]

I think it would be really cool for a non video (to make it easy) raw (no editing at all) podcast talking about y’all’s experience in skiing, gear, behind the scenes, etc would be awesome.

[@paulmelde919]

An MA podcast, livestream or similar would be the bomb!

[@kennethsmith4202]

Thanks for another great video. It would be great to get your thoughts on binding placement. That is our biggest challenge as we start to set up our first backcountry outfits in my family.

[@finstudent]

I got the Dynafit Superlite this year and love it. It feels so solid for a light binding. But, buyer beware, if you go with brakes on it as well they barely fit and the binding is *super* hard to turn to release the brakes when you need to. I just took mine off and went with leashes.

[@blainewinters8492]

Day 3 asking for a gear room tour. Mediocre audience we must rally.

[@at1970]

Been on the Salomon/atomic tour set up with brakes for last 4 years. Simple, reliable, lite, climbs great and works on the resort if you don’t get too worked up.

[@thicccboyztv]

The heel risers blow up and develop enough play to flop open so you step into ski mode in less than 1 season of heavy usage.

[@cnuila]

@@thicccboyztv I had one pair that started doing that, and another that never exhibited any such symptoms after three seasons use. 50/50 split when I ask other owners their experience. Poor quality control issue maybe?

[@stihlnz]

I'm a fat bast@#d big old ski patroller .... you guy's are fast ...I needed something really strong - A marker Tour on my Voilkl Mantra - something I could work in all day and run a rig with ....way to heavy for you hero's ...boy have I seen other patrollers eat it on Donotfits ... I don't think they are made to ski every day, But great for you light set up huge vert superstars. By the way you guy's do a great job mentoring people to get into the backcountry .... got to be fit and have good skills which you guys have in spades.

[@cypriano8763]

like that dynafit, 150g with the risers. best of all worlds

[@jacobnigro9335]

Thanks for making this. I bought my first touring set-up last year and went with the Shifts because I wanted to use it at the resort too (and it does great there) and being a newbie, I knew nothing about weight. The thing is a chonker though, and close to 900g, and it makes the up a slog. Since most of my touring is fairly chill (and I can still use the Shifts if I have a more aggressive day), I definitely want to get something lighter for my next set-up.

[@volodymyrshydlovskyi1746]

I am so sorry for you that you have such heavy bindings. I'll try to cheer you up by saying that I have frame touring bindings and they suit me completely within 1300 gram per each. Do your exercises and everything will be ok. 500eur is very expensive for me in my country that’s why I'm not ready to change it now :) Take care.

[@phonemeunit1973]

Pulled the trigger on G3 Ions and Black Crows Atris. Time to send it in the San Juans!

[@brianharder7714]

I love the information and presentation but I'd make a couple of critiques. First, I have a ton of days on these light bindings in high stakes conditions and have been skiing them exclusively since around 2009. On the other hand, I'm not hucking cliffs. With that in mind, I'd say that your presentation suggests indirectly that the lighter race bindings are going to fail or "rip out". Frankly, I simply don't see that. I mean, all bindings fail to some degree but most of these here are quite stout and reliable in all situations. The only failure I've witnessed was with the first generation Dynafit Superlight. There were some issues with fractures through the screw holes. Not catastrophic but concerning, nonetheless. My second point is that the Trab binding has the interesting feature of toe spring tension that eliminates the icing problem of traditional retention springs seen on all other toe pieces. But it also has the deal breaker for me in that the heel stack delta is significantly higher than more other race style bindings.

[@paulmelde919]

Regarding your first point, I think Christof’s point is to use bindings for their intended purpose. A super minimal race binding should not be used for cliff hucking and a super beefy BC binding should not be used to try to win a ski mo race. Would a race-binding fail cliff hucking? It depends on the size of the cliff and the skier (among many other factors). These are the kind of things only the manufacturer can speak to. The manufacturer would also likey say their super light, minimalist race binding should be limited race type terrain and use.

[@cnuila]

Good points, and I think they’re all valid coming from an “advanced user” such as yourself who understands what tech bindings are and their limitations. I think we just wanted to give some reference as to why there is a range of weights and construction in all the “touring” bindings out there. I too have used a race style tech binding for applications that did not resemble Skimo racing at all lol, but again, I knew what I was doing, and what reasonable expectations to have.

[@geotecnics]

great video!

[@benc.8103]

Thanks for the tutorial Prof. 😵‍💫

[@bboss8048]

Happy New Year fellas

[@sjldfilms5126]

Thank you! Would love to learn about hiking poles and crampons.

[@thicccboyztv]

First lesson: they are spelled crampons.

[@sjldfilms5126]

@@thicccboyztv thx

[@KowalskiVanishing_Point]

Old guy here relatively new to AT. Terminal intermediate level but punching above my weight and somehow surviving. Mounted a used pair of Momentums with a Dynafit ST Rotation 12s 'cause I heard the tech bindings can cause spiral fractures if you wipe out. Had a few spectacular and more less than spectacular wipeouts last year and skis popped off and zero injuries to me. Slowly screwing up the DIN to ski harder. I like 'em and have made this AT stuff a ton of fun. Next up, new skis somewhere in the intermediate range - maybe a Salomon qst 106 in shorter length. Just thought I'd give a newb's two cents worth.

[@nils8485]

What do you think about Salomon Shift or similar bindings?

[@chriswoods2647]

How about the Dynafit Rotation? It seems that adding elasticity to the toe piece really expands the skiable range and reliability of the set-up. Someone should rate retention & elasticity differences between bindings and relate them to different real-world skiing needs. Currently, all we have to go on is the vague "freeride" label which I guess (from the popular videos) is still landing jumps in deep, soft powder. What AT binding would you use for navigating steep, death icey couloir where elasticity and reliability is as important as in Eastern bumps?

[@Ranar14]

Rotations don't have elasticity in the toe! Your toes can NOT move side to side in Rotations. They have a mechanism that helps to limit spiral fractures due to how almost all tech bindings release. THE ONLY touring PIN bindings that have toe elasticity is the Vipec, Tecton and Ski Trab TR 2 (but you're locked into Sportiva boots with that). Shifts, frame, CAST being the other tour bindings/ systems with toe elasticity since they are all regular alpine bindings for going down.

[@cnuila]

I see the rotation as a solution if you want to ski the backcountry as aggressive as the resort, including big airs and high speeds and actually have a reliable DIN release to avoid injury. Or maybe you have previous knee/joint injuries and are hyper concerned about avoiding any re-injury. At the top of an icy couloir, I’m skiing deliberately and with the most control possible so the only thing I’m concerned about my binding is keeping my skis attached and NOT releasing. Elasticity and reliable release is not in the picture. Pretty much all tech bindings will accomplish retention as well as any binding with the toes locked out, which is my personal technique in those certain situations. Side note, I did just get a set of Rotation 14 bindings I’m mounting on a burly setup that I’ll use for party days with heli-drop or cat skiing but there’s a CHANCE I might stay out and want to/have to tour home.

[@5cherry881]

​@@cnuila Hey mate, how are your Rotation 14 bindings? I currently have too choose between a tech binding and a hybrid one for freetouring. But I dont know how different or worse a tech binding is in downhill performance compared to hybrid ones.

[@TheKobool]

running the Dynastar M-Tour 99 with the ATK R12. pretty good so far, altough my boots are totaly downhill overkill. got some Salomon S/lab on the way tho

[@dan.b]

12:15 Samolom mtn/Atomic backland also have a heel platform+brake.

[@chrishansen2842]

Hi guys, would love a short video about what film gear and cameras you use. Looking to get into filming my own adventures and would love Mediocre insight!

[@lukasblum8051]

I have the ATK. It works great but for one shortcoming that is annoying: The risers are too small. It's hard to put them in place with the ski pole. And they do not stay in place very well. It often happens to me that while climbing, I start getting the feeling that something feels strange. And the I see: Ah, a riser is on the climbing position, even though I didn't put it there.

[@OrestisSeferoglou]

I'm in the middle of a dilemma on what bindings to put on to these skis to match the Radical boots: Rotation ST 10 vs KingPin vs Tecton. Mostly will be used in the side country but with the possibility of some longer skinning trip in the Spring!

[@cnuila]

If you are riding this setup in the resorts at all, I would go with kingpin or tecton, whichever is lighter.

[@abandonshipproductions]

I was just watching a different video by cody townsend and I thought I would share this from one of his comments to someone asking about the kingpin: "The Kingpin is certified as a Touring Binding and does not meet the standards of a certified Alpine binding, so therefore isn't a bridge binding. So just like all tech bindings, it too should not be skied at the resort at all. The toe piece is a tech toe and therefore it has all the trappings of any tech binding. The toe is far far far more important to releasability factors according to the binding engineers I work with" The reason I care is because I was not aware of this and broke my ankle while skiing in a tech binding 3 years ago. I ended up going with the shift for my setup and have had no issues with it so far. Just something to consider!

[@faceinthecrowd5810]

I backcountry in Upstate NY on Madshus Annium with Dynafit radical pins and Atomic Backlands boots. I am wanting to “heavy up”my set up for better downhill performance and shift to a non-scaled ski that will use skins for the climb. Here in the ADK it’s not easy to find open slopes with good snow mostly the backcountry is a lot of trees so being able to turn a quick ski is number 1. Any recommended set ups for northeast jungles ?

[@cnuila]

We just finished a review of the Hagan Core 89 ski. Very easy to ski and turn but not so featherlight that it gets thrown around and hard to manage when the snow is less than stellar. Might be an option. Keep an eye out for the video in the next few days.

[@christorealov9050]

So no leashes on the brakeless bindings? Concerned about runaways if there is a pre-lease?

[@cnuila]

Many opinions on this topic, and this is mine (not to be confused with a recommendation). The only purpose of brakes or leashes in my world is to satisfy safety requirements if I happen to find myself at a resort on my touring gear, or maybe in Europe where your'e traversing through ski resorts and touring all in one day. Yes there is possibility of a runaway ski, but in the kind of soft stuff we're all (hopefully) skiing in the backcountry it shouldn't go far. If I'm skiing something where the possibility of a ski running thousands of feet down some icy couloir if it comes off, well, I'm probably skiing with my toes locked out and very defensively. That's my two cents. I'm sure there are a hundred keyboard warriors ready to pounce on this philosophy and tell you all the reasons I'm wrong:) All I know is that I have never found myself wishing my bindings had brakes or leashes in all my years of touring.

[@brianharder7714]

@@cnuila Completely agree.

[@justinbayola]

I am just getting into backcountry skiing and got some Atomic shifts... yeah they are heavy but in downhill they can't be beat and if anything the weight is just making me stronger... sure lighter is better on the uphill but so is the money I save not having a dedicated set of skis for each type of riding

[@Dreiiii]

Agreed! It is a bit heavier, but I can kill it going down without worrying about my leg ripping of ! And it’s absolutely true that it saved thousands because I didn’t need to pair of skis!

[@reveljr]

Hallo, I have to mount some bindings on Elan ripstick 96. It's my first backcountry set up.. i have some on piste skis, and i would like to have an "universal" ski. I mean, something that can be usesul in a resort, and also playful for some fast raid off the piste. I was considering the shifts, salomon or armada. Would you reccomend them?

[@abandonshipproductions]

Also after having a heel piece completely fall apart miles from the parking lot on one of my tech bindings, and then breaking my ankle due to a pre-release on my next pair.. I think the shifts are a great option for someone who just wants something a bit more safe and consistent and isn't dedicated to doing tons of long tours. 3 years in and I have had no issues. Just my own personal experience, but wanted to weigh in for anyone thinking of the shift as an option.

[@rubenantunes1603]

I'm thinking on getting a plum pika, because of the heel pad. The other option is to go lighter and get a marker alpinist. The skis I'm thinking are the Atomic backland 95 or the black crow camox freebird. What is your opinion?

[@tomasvw]

I got the black crows camox freebird because it's more playful and can endure better in hard snow, and bought the Salomon Mtn pure

[@gustavsamuelsson7983]

I need help deciding on bindings... I'm riding black crows navis freebird so 102 mm under foot. Currently on a shift(don't judge I just bought what the shop recommended and I'm happy with the combo) but want to make I lighter. Im looking at the g3 zed 12 or should I choose something else?

[@cnuila]

Sorry for the extremely late reply I’m sure you figured something out already. I do recommend the G3 zed however. I think it’s up there with the ATK raider bindings as far as the lightest tech bindings you can truly “charge” on.

[@christopherbustard8721]

No love for the og speed turn? (I have atk ultra / hagan zr on my light skis, radicals on the big boys)

[@cnuila]

It's a classic for sure

[@martinschulthess8]

Have you tried Fritschi Bindings? they are pretty light for their safety and possibility to adjust!

[@brianharder7714]

Too much plastic. Fiddly and they break.

[@Ranar14]

Ran Vipecs for 6+ years and Tectons for the last year. Awesome bindings, ski way better than regular tech stuff due to having actual elasticity. The crampon attachment does suck tho. Also to Brians comment of they are fiddly, I call bullshit on that. Getting in and out of the toe is the same as any other tech binding. Risers work the same on them as they do on race bindings. You never have to rotate a tower, and the Tecton heel works the same as any alpine heel.

[@brianharder7714]

@@Ranar14 It was more the adjustment that was fiddly. But the plastic is the deal breaker for me. I broke some Titanal 2's many years ago and just can't go back. I saw others break as well. Weight is another factor. The elasticity is an interesting topic. Might have some merit. But, shit, every binding has fans. Some people think Marker Dukes are the bomb.

[@colemanworthen623]

I mounted the Xenic last year, I was willing to try em for the price, features, and light weight. Unfortunately the toe levers were incredibly hard to pull up into skin mode. The plastic beneath the toe lever snapped rendering them useless. I won’t be buying any more plastic tech binders 😂

[@luqout]

The problem where I live is that the ski shops have mounting guide plates for only one brand (Atomic, Marker, etc.). You can buy any binding you want online, but finding a place to have it installed is the problem.

[@thicccboyztv]

Learn to hand mount.

[@bencoffman2330]

You have any mountaineering shops in your area? If they sell skis they're more likely to be willing to hand mount for you than a regular ski shop.

[@bencoffman2330]

Or buy skis/bindings together from a site that will mount them

[@luqout]

@@bencoffman2330 Good idea, I am currently happy with my Atomic Backland 85 UL + Atomic Backland Pure combo, but I am thinking of a fatter setup so it will mean some mental gymnasticks😀

[@Ranar14]

@@luqout self mounting is super easy. Just measure twice, drill once. You can even practice on a 2x4 so you can be confident once you put drill to ski.

[@claykarmel4730]

Anyone else have problems with Marker Alpinist 12? I have two sets. Love them dearly, -except-, I've had two heels which failed by sliding backwards. The positioning 'bolt' has a groove which is captured by a "u" shaped plate under the binding. This appears to be an intentional emergency release mechanism, but it isn't field repairable. You're skiing telemark for the day. First heel failed while being mounted at an REI shop. Got that replaced. Second heel failed on Mt. Whitney. I repaired it and used several times until it failed on a POW day at Mammoth (in-bounds, I had it on Solomon 118's and just couldn't ski anything else in that POW). Have others experienced this? The 'repair' was to remove the binding, turn it over, remove the U-shaped plate, squeeze it a little bit, then replace and re-assemble. You have to advance and retard the binding all the way forward and backward to get to the screws to remove and then repeat the process to replace. Thankfully I have helicoils in the skis to deal with the dismount/remount. I love these bindings but the frequency of failure is scaring me away from them.

[@braydend9582]

I have the Marker Alpinist 12, Marker Kingpin 13, previously owned Marker Baron, and exclusively Marker for Alpine, so I am a bit of a Marker fanboy. REI is honestly the worst possible place to get backcountry bindings mounted. They are probably mounted incorrectly and that is why you could be having failures. It is also possible that the Marker Alpinist 12 is being pushed to the limit being mounted to a 118 underfoot ski. For example the widest freeride backcountry ski Dynafit makes is the Beast 108, and the widest G3 ski is 114. These are both ultra light weight skis designed for touring and freeride. I have a set of backcountry skis that are pretty bloody heavy, 192cm long and 118mm underfoot, which have the Marker Kingpin 13 mounted to them no issues. Our setups are considered kind of overkill for everyday backcountry and only reserved for that perfect snow day. What I am getting at is unless your Solomon 118's are carbon fiber and designed to be a light weight touring ski. The combined weight and width of your skis could be exceeding what the Marker Alpinist 12 is designed for or REI just continues to suck at backcountry. Hope this helps.

[@claykarmel4730]

@@braydend9582 REI didn't have the template to mount the Marker Alpinist bindings, but they ordered it and waited for it. I can't complain about REI's mounting or service. The Alpinist 12's failed on my Blizzard 85's, first. They failed while REI was mounting them and we got the entire set replaced. They failed again on Mt. Whitney on the Blizzard 85's. Blizzards are extremely light skis. The Solomon 118's are also pretty light skis for their width (yes, carbon). So I think we're off the mark with your observations, at least a little. Let me remind you that I love the Marker Alpinist 12's. Except for this particular failure mode. The last time they failed (on the 118's), I was skiing a big line aggressively and caught some air, landing on my tails hard. Visibility was extremely poor and I didn't see the air coming. So the release may have been appropriate. The real problem is that you can't reset the bindings without removing them from the ski and disassembling the binding. That just can't be right. In fact, I DID remove the binding and reset the central post, but didn't 'squeeze' the U-shaped metal clip. They failed again the next morning when I stepped into them. So I've owned 3 sets of Alpinist 12 and encountered failures on two of them. (Right now, I have to share three heel pieces across two sets of skis. Which sucks. I'll probably put Dynafit Rotations onto the 118's, but have been reluctant to do that. I was hoping to find others who had similar experiences and might have a better fix, or to hear from Marker.). But thanks for responding. I'm kind of an Alpinist fan boy, too. Would just like to fix this problem.

[@braydend9582]

@@claykarmel4730 Dang sorry to hear about your bad luck. I still wouldn't trust REI, they probably just used a paper template instead of a proper jig. This is honestly the first time I have heard about any heel issues. My kingpins were part of a recall with pin issues but both are pretty solid bindings. I would try and send photos and let Marker know about this possible issue. That is a pretty high failure rate from a loyal customer. Tough to say but the local shop I went too seemed to like the binding and had no customer issues.

[@claykarmel4730]

@@braydend9582 Good idea. I'll photograph it and reach out to Marker. REI doesn't like to carry pin bindings in stores, but you can get them online. Probably a fear of liability from clueless buyers. The San Diego REI 'tech' shop has been wonderful to work with. I know that they didn't use a paper template, but the official one. I see no issues with the mounting at all. (I had them install helicoils once we had to remove the first set.). Thanks for responding. I'll update this thread if I hear back from Marker.

[@Matteo_Etzer]

Hey! Have any of you tried the ATK Trofeo?

[@cnuila]

I haven’t but I’ve been looking for an excuse to try them out. Looks like a great ultralight option.

[@Matteo_Etzer]

@@cnuila I was also looking for one. Found the excuse but not the binding. Wasn't in stock anywhere sensible for me to purchase. Went with the Hagan Pure 10. I like it!

[@braydend9582]

For a video with the title "Backcountry Bindings // How to Pick a Pair" you really didn't teach anyone on how to pick a backcountry binding. More like here are the most expensive backcountry (tech only) bindings I like for the backcountry; I will briefly mention with little detail other (cheaper) tech bindings and completely ignore the existence of frame-style bindings. Tech binding heel gaps were also completely glossed over and is one of the most important parts when deciding on a binding.

[@Lag10]

Frame style bindings should be ignored

[@dwightWSmith73]

If it doesn't release, it's no good. If your performance is less than an Alpine binding, it's no good.

[@ben.vonegidy977]

Bro you didn‘t Even mention the safety aspect once, aren‘t you supposed to show a resonable Opinion wich could act as a example or something?!

[@WildMidwest1]

What, you didn’t notice their name is Extra Mediocre?