280 Ackley Improved vs 7 SAUM: Two of the best rifle cartridges on earth

[@derickbabb3824]

I was building a 7SAUM as this video was released. Now we have that “7PRC” and I still feel this 7SAUM is more efficient. I’m driving a 180 Berger Hybrid at 2830fps out of a 22in poof research carbon barrel. Most stuff I’ve read and seen the 7PRC isn’t doing the claimed 3000fps out of a 24in tube. To be fair my 7SAUM has a long throat so I can seat the bullets out further. In the end I’m glad I just went 7SAUM.

[@keithprinn720]

if building a big dollar custom maybe or get a decent factory in PRC much easier ignoring the hate for Hornady changing powders with slightly reduced speeds. not a fan of the non providing honesty but has limits.

[@keithprinn720]

big investment, at end of the day if it works and can get ammo or reload yourself why chase two per cent and spend five grand more.

[@snaakebithunter8287]

You forgot one very important advantage of the AI: you can shoot factory .280Rem in it and thus fire form the brass for .280 AI. Great video! I went through this exact mental exercise myself. Brass for SAUM is impossible to get where I live, and I already had and reload for the .280 Rem. so a re-barrel was the direction I am taking, and I am simply fire forming my brass. My vote is therefore the .280 AI. Thanks for all the good content!

[@backfire]

Totally forgot to mention this.

[@jackmemphis777]

oh well that makes the .280AI get my vote then. Far better ammo availability with ballistics that are just as good as the 7SAUM

[@DriveCarToBar]

This is the reason I'd go .280 AI. Flexibility and options for reloaders with common brass. And since the Army is now going with a steel casehead on its new 6.8x51, I'm wondering if steel cases could offer reloaders even more options in rifles built for the added pressure.

[@jareddimick3931]

@@backfireforgot or just didn’t know.. your doing a lot of preaching while bypassing a ton of critical detail. There’s a ton of viewers that will take this as gospel and that’s discouraging considering the lack of technical knowledge. The whole shoulder surface area consistency thing you said is completely false. The benefit of the Ackley shoulder is flow, it helps reduce throat erosion, brass life, and lends efficiency in regards to pressure. (Along with the small increase in case capacity) Different shoulder angle will not affect headspace or bolt face pressure consistency.. your brass prep will dictate that. You failed to mention the brass availability for reloaders, you can use 30-06 brass, 270 brass, 280. All will fire form after resized. I do it all the time and I’ve even shot 1/2 Minute groups with full house loads while fire forming. Please stop posting videos sharing your strong opinion without actually knowing what your talking about.

[@keithprinn720]

totally see what influenced your decision. at least a dozen options that different people will choose on their own weighting of factors. rebarrelling changes things hugely with rest of rig already owned.

[@seventhmonkey1160]

280 AI here. It's a 7mm Rem Mag with less recoil and almost twice the barrel life. Compared to it and the SAUM and WSM you get 4 cartridges in the magazine vs. 3 for the rest. There is a reason the AI has been around so long and why it made the leap from wildcat to factory. You can also shoot 280 Remington in a pinch and the brass gets fire formed to AI to boot. Just bought one in a Savage Timberline and was even able to find ammo. Try finding any factory rifles in the SAUM or ammunition.

[@twolak1972]

HAHAHAHA Yeah that extra 1.5 lbs of recoil from the 7 mag is really a deal breaker huh karen. LOL

[@JJ-iu5hl]

​@@twolak1972Dang. Hunters are a surprisingly sensitive bunch.

[@davidfranklin3782]

The 280 AI is just so dang efficient. With less powder it essentially has the same ballistics as the 7 SAUM. I vote 280 AI.

[@ricktaylor3748]

The 7 SAUM is dead as a December corn field in my neck of the woods. Remington doesn't even chamber rifles in that short dumpy caliber anymore. The .280 AI is far better.

[@dhooter]

​@@ricktaylor3748But like he said they have a huge cult following. Myself I love my 300 Rum.

[@ricktaylor3748]

@@dhooter The .300 RUM is total overkill. Most of the powder is blown outta the barrel unburned. It needs a 28-30 inch barrel to become efficient. Plus, the cost of factory ammunition is insane. The .300 Win mag. is perfect for any North American game animal, and most African big game animals. I use the .280 Ackley improved for all my hunting needs.

[@dhooter]

​@@ricktaylor3748100% a opinion your entitled to. 👍

[@ricktaylor3748]

@@dhooter Yes, I do have ""an"" opinion. The .300 RUM is all but obsolete, it's the 404 Jeffrey case necked down to shoot 30 caliber bullets. It''s an elephant cartridge. You may as well have a .50 BMG with a stock. .3OO RUM ammunition is practically nonexistent. If you can find some, it's $75-85 dollars per box.

[@mrstangthang98]

I think I have to go with the 280ai. Having factory support as well as being able to hand load is a big advantage in my opinion.

[@zachgilpin3504]

Comes down to factory support in a primer shortage. My vote went to AI. Love the thought of a 7 PRC though.

[@sav300]

It’s been done and it’s been perfected. Check out the 28 Sherman Magnum.

[@uxorialstunner6492]

That will be sweet

[@sav300]

@@uxorialstunner6492 I have to say I’m impressed with the numbers my builder is getting over the 300 PRC with the 30 SM. 28 might have to be on my list next!

[@zachgilpin3504]

Definitely will check that out, thanks. Hopefully primers start coming back before we are flying in cars.

[@sav300]

@@zachgilpin3504 lol that’s no joke!

[@kweeks10045]

The 280AI is really a sweet spot cartridge in my opinion. I have a 7mag, 7-08 and wsm, and the 280AI does everything they do in a very efficient package that isn't the typical round.

[@keithprinn720]

see that but most dont need all 3 either that is a different question if already own various rifles. bit like fly rods what do you need, need not want lol.

[@daveknowles3055]

Don't see myself having a custom rifle built, so I'm voting for the cartridge with factory support the 280 AI

[@stevecrader3479]

Buddy just had a high-end 7 SAUM built and as spectacular as it is, I’m probably gonna have/buy a 280AI. Feels like a long life solution to me

[@jasonforester4572]

I've always preferred .30 cals. That being said, I've been researching the 7's and I'm in danger of changing my mind on my preference. So much so that I picked up a Model 70 Featherweight, Stainless, Dark Maple in 7mm-08. I'm so happy with that rifle and caliber. When I saw this bracket, it really got my attention. I appreciate efficiency in rifles and their calibers. For that reason, I usually gravitate to short action calibers. BUT.... not this time. I'm voting .280 A.I. My reason is practicality. It's just a matter of availability. There's not enough difference between the SAUM and A.I. ballistics to matter to someone like me who is interested mainly in hunting over competition shooting. Perhaps my opinion is a result of the past couple of years of going to get either factory ammo or ammo components and not being able to find what I'm looking for without mounting a huge, widescoping expedition to find it. That s**t is getting OLD! So the last thing I want, is to add yet another layer of difficulty in tracking down ammo or components. In the case of 7mm SAUM, it would be the components as the factory loaded ammo is almost impossible to find. I know I can find 7mm A.I. cartridges today if I need them. I see them when I buy 7mm-08. But SAUM? None so far. Also no 7mm WSM. Lots of 7mm Rem Mag. I guess I've got a case of "ammo shortage fatigue". So sick of that. So, with such little difference in ballistics to matter, my vote is for .280 A.I.

[@tyb3938]

Daughter took a nice 6x5 bull with her 7mm-08 last year, dropped him in his tracks at 80 yards. Wife took her bull this year with the same rifle at 293 yards, he just stood there, not even a flinch, so she hit him till he fell, he made it ten feet. Both with 139 interlocks, at 9500 feet, looking to upgrade Bullet to 162 eldx to keep velocity up at 300-400 yards as wifes shot was around 1600 ft lbs, and I would prefer closer to 2000 ft lbs. now if I could just find a box of 162s

[@billysilva6388]

Doing the same thing also. Always been a 300 win mag guy, but looking at a 6.8, or 7mm rem or 280 ai.

[@jasonforester4572]

@@billysilva6388 I'll never sell my .300WM or my .308. The 6.8 really has my interest. I hope it catches on more and becomes easier to find the ammo. I think it would be a terrific all around type cartridge but with a bit more pep in its step than other .270's. I like the longer neck and faster twist rate enabling longer for cal bullets. Uh-oh..... I'm starting to "Nerd out" here. I'll stop now. 🤪

[@smokedbrisket3033]

@@tyb3938 ELD-X is far and away the most accurate bullet out of my 308 and my 6.5x55. But. It wouldn't even be my top 5 for hunting, and I have used it for hunting the feral hogs we have around here. But as much effort as goes into an elk hunt, man, I like Nosler Partition 160 gr a lot better. Still a reasonably good BC at .475 At 9500 ft altitude, it will still have just south of 2K ft-lbs at 300 yds, and a bit over 1800 ft-lbs at 400 yards. Even if the front jacket separates from the core, the base will just keep plowing through. If you can find 160 Woodleigh PPSN, also a good choice, and better even than Partition IMO, since they're bonded bullets. But the Woodleigh plant burned to the ground a couple weeks ago, and those had been very difficult to find during the pandemic before the plant burned down. Another good choice would be Hammer Hunter 143 gr. Similar to Barnes in construction, being all metal, you would use the Nosler reloading data for their 140 gr bullets. A high BC and good velocity at distance are important, but momentum reigns supreme when it comes to penetration, and bullets that retain more weight after breaking skin will always have better momentum than bullets which [are likely ] to shed a great deal of their weight. Premiums are definitely more expensive than traditional cup-and-core bullets, but even if you paid $5/round, it is still far and away the least expensive component of any hunt. I wish you fond memories in your adventures.

[@cycleguy728]

Everything built off the 308 case is marvelous, including the 308!

[@mbonneau79]

Love my X-bolt in .280AI and the ammo availability! 8-twist barrel and good mag space for high BC bullets.

[@The_Hi_Life]

280AI has stood the test of time. Most of these “wildcats” have their moments in the sun and fade away… 280AI is still popular today, and gaining more attention. It’s probably the best all around long range cartridge out there!

[@Mike-xi4zt]

One advantage to a 280 AI is you can put standard 280 Remington in the gun and shoot it. And it comes out fire formed to 280 AI. And you can form 280 AI brass out of 30-06 , 270 win , 280 rem, and 25-06.

[@jacoblovell748]

did you mean 25-06 or 30-06?

[@Mike-xi4zt]

@@jacoblovell748 25-06 can be necked up. 30-06 can be necked down. 270 are slightly long and can be trimmed after changing the neck diameter. 280 as all of them were based off of the 30-06. So they can all be transformed into the other versions with the dies, neck expanders, and case trimmer.

[@tomcurran8470]

​@@jacoblovell748 He means both.

[@michaelhopkins3871]

I have had the pleasure of shooting both of these and I have developed an obsession for the SAUM. The SAUM will be my next long gun purchase.

[@Grumpyoleguy]

My Browning 280 AI has 1-8" twist. Using book data I am gettting 3000 fps with 162 ELD-X with the 26" barrel.

[@tylarhaugan7908]

I get 2950 using 168 lrx with 25 inch tube using IMR 7828

[@toddburrows5995]

Jim Zumbo made the case for the .280Rem way back in the 70's. I've been shooting one (700 rem with Douglas 1:9 barrel )for over 40 years. Everything I hit with it dropped in it's tracks. I've loaded it with bullets from 110gr. HP's (rabbits) all the way up to 162 gr. Hornady BTSP. (elk) 1/2' MOA with everything. My pet load is 140gr. Nosler Partition. 58 gr IMR4831. 3000 FPS. My vote is for the 280 AI. New kid on the block with proven genetics. Very close to 7MM mag ballistics with much less recoil, report and powder. LOVE the channel. Cartridge geeks of the world unite!!

[@evanmillsaps2078]

My dad just bought a Nosler 21, in .280 AI. It’s amazing, shooting half inch “all touching” 3 shot groups at 100yrds. The 100% carbon fiber stock is nice as well and the recoil is less than I expected.

[@stevencarter1095]

My vote is 280 I’ve had one in a Remington mountain rifle for years. In my area you can find 280 but rarely do I see 280 AI. I do reload my 280 and it’s extremely accurate, at least for a few rounds the thin barrel in a mountain rifle heats up fast. I can’t see 85fps making a difference in the hunting world so the 280 has my vote.

[@pigtailbbq1982]

I also have a Remington MTN rifle. It's my choice also. The ai doesn't have enough advantage to matter.

[@talisikid1618]

It’s the opposite in this part of the south. Never seen a 280 but 280ai is everywhere. I have one & it’s my favorite.

[@canadianhuntnfish]

I run a 7 Saum in a 20” barrel and it pushes a 168g Berger VLD at 2880 in my Gunwerks Clymr. Amazing round and amazing ballistics! Thanks for the video keep up the good content. 👍🏻

[@ronladuke7235]

I can’t believe they developed the 6.5 prc and not a 7mm prc. I agree, the seven’s are the perfect balance of high energy and low recoil. I used a 700 rem bdl 7mm rem mag for many years and my son has a Tikka t3x in 280ai, both excellent calibers.

[@brandondamasco]

Thats because the 6.5 PRC was developed for PRS type matches. The longer sleeker bullet is the reason.

[@kellyheath8547]

I think the PRC came from 6.5cm guys wanting more. the PRC fits that want perfectly.

[@brandondamasco]

m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/baOsepVpjriDoJY

[@bluskykilz]

It's all about the B.C. when talking about the 6.5prc.

[@brandondamasco]

Yes that and why the 6.5 PRC exist not the 7 PRC. If you listen to the long range podcast by gunwerks they explain how it came to be.

[@SledSaint]

280 AI I have a Bergara Premier in 280 AI and it shoots sub 3/4" groups every time with factory Hornady 162gr ELD-X. I hut with a can as well and I was a bit annoyed with the 24" barrel, so I cut it back to 21.5" and believe it or not, I only lost roughly 50fps!

[@falba1492]

What’s the barrel twist?

[@jcarry5214]

That's a well built gun, wow. I could never get that consistency out of Hornady OTC loads. I had a very good barrel on an ok gun and I'd shoot a box at .5" and another at 1.25, sometimes the same day. When I started reloading them I learned pretty quickly it came down mostly to brass prep, or lack of it on their end. If that gun can absorb the variations I recorded then you've got a winner.

[@redleg84]

@@falba1492 Bergara 280ai barrels were 1/9, but they no longer chamber it unfortunately

[@skyheckler]

Love my 280 ai highlander. 160 noslers for the win.

[@SledSaint]

@@skyheckler mine shoots those really good too. Just expensive and hard to find.

[@user-vv8oj6vl8w]

Sounds like the questions come down to “how much do you want to spend on the rifle?” and “do you plan on factory ammo or reloading?” 7 Saum is $$$ to $$$$ (because custom) and no factory ammo support. 280 AI is $$ to $$$ and has factory ammo support. 280AI wins in my book.

[@DanielBoone337]

To tell you the truth I've always wanted a 280AI but I already have a 284 Winchester, 7mm Rem Mag, and 28 Nosler. I've never wanted a 7 SAUM or 7WSM even though they're really a cool cartridges on paper I already have rifles bracketing them on both sides... If I ever add something to my 7mm collection it'll be a 280AI in a custom rifle!!!

[@m.a2928]

Love the video series you been putting out last couple years; good to see the subscriber base grow to reflect the work you put in.. You missed one of the most efficient 7mm's that has really picked up and is quite popular in the F-class/competition circles; the 284 Winchester. Basically matches the 280AI in short action non magnum form factor; it really shines if built on a long action for optimal bullet seating magazine capacities. Of your options, id go 280AI with the current component/production choices avail. A 7mm PRC or 7mm Western would be a awesome edition to the 7mm's.. Id buy one of those two for sure. Cheers.

[@scuba410]

7wsm. Dropped everything ever taken with it. Flat. Hot. But the market didn’t take on it as the masses went for 300 wsm and 270 wsm. And manufacturers haven’t made a production line with it since 2016. But it’s my hands down favorite

[@aaronsmith21]

It’s too bad that the 7WSM didn’t get more traction since the ballistics look amazing

[@scuba410]

Short action. Great ballistics. 4 round cap. Can find factory ammo in stores on shelves. If only a manufacture would add it on their platform. Great hunting round.

[@mikehass2229]

7mm wsm is a great hunting cartridge. I have a Browning A-bolt II stainless stalker. It's been lights out on game out west. I've taken antelope, mule deer and elk with it.

[@scuba410]

#Make7WSMGreatAgain

[@jakehamilton7371]

At least on paper, I think it's the best version of the 4 WSM's

[@Chato4570]

280 AI, achieves basically the same velocity as the SAUM with less powder, standard bolt face and higher capacity. The fact it's a long action is void mainly due to modern scopes with longer eye relief

[@richardfinney3169]

Always loved the 7 mm mag , now I have the 7mm wsm , I get better velocities with no pressure signs with the 120 grain barnes triple shock. Super flat extreme long range accuracy and lethal expansion. Not more can be said. Thx for sharing this video.

[@mh4phantom]

This is good stuff Jim thanks! I feel like there really should be 2 winners of cartridge wars. One winner for hand-loaders and one winner for factory ammo people. I think that is a major distinction that should be made there when helping people decide what cartridges they should be looking at. While I'd love to shoot the 7SAUM I just bought a 7mm Rem Mag because I know that I won't realistically be set up for reloading in the next few years. I feel the same way about 6.5 PRC so instead I shoot a 270 win. We all probably should hand-load but for many, it's not realistic in the near term for a variety of reasons.

[@terryslaton5582]

I’ve won ALOT of bets off .30 caliber fans. It goes like this. You shoot a 150 gr. bullet in any .30 cal at 2800 FPS and I shot the same weight bullet at the same speed in a 6.5 caliber rifle. The 6.5 bullet hits 20% harder (more foot pounds of energy) with 25% less felt recoil at 200, 300, 400, yards. Wanna bet?

[@edwardhoward4708]

@@terryslaton5582 you need a longer barrel or more powder to win the competition. Trade-offs… It’s all about finding a balance that works for you.

[@longbellycaster]

I shoot and love the 7 saum, amazing cartridge(190LRHT @2880fps) but in the end for most 280AI because of factory ammunition is a better choice.

[@frankgulla8782]

I vote 7 saum, I picked one up 15 years ago and could care less about factory support or ammo. My rem model 7, is stainless/synthetic and I paid under 600 bucks for it. I have a couple hundred pieces of brass and I believe Norma still makes brass or I could neck down 300 saum .the 280 ai is a great cartridge but I like short actions. They are both ballistically identical so what ever floats your boat. I also really like the 7-08 it's a great woods range white tail cartridge. Thanks for a really comprehensive video!

[@stevepuyear2738]

Love the 7SAUM! I had a custom built on a Rem Mod7 action, setup with the Wyatt's extended magazine box, 26" #3 contour barrel. It handled everything up to the 154gr Hornady bullets just fine to where the seating depth wasn't critically encroaching on powder space. With Reloader 17 powder you can get some amazing velocity out of that little platform. I kick myself for letting it go, but the price was right and it's slaying Texas Whitetails down those long Senderos to this day.

[@yukon4545]

Something mentioned by P.O. was the diminished lengthening of the cases. A primary goal of the "Ackleyizing". Also, the powder column was "stalled" and created a more efficient burn.

[@feed_defend_evolve]

Good point!

[@chrisbutcher5848]

There are some factory 7 saums out there. I love hunting with my Remington model seven in 7-08. Happened to find a brand new Remington seven in 7 SAUM and had to have it. Working on getting some loads worked up now. I think it’s gonna be my go to for all my deer and elk hunting.

[@peteskrine6645]

Hi Jim. Here in New Zealand reloading supplies have just about dried up. I do only hunting with my 7mm Rem mag, firing just a dozen or shots each year. Accuracy is still superb, the recoil is not an issue and it hits hard. Loved your take on this, keep it coming.

[@leemaxey9972]

The 7 Saum is perfection ! I'm shooting a 190 A-Tip out of a Kreiger 26" barrel with 8 1/2 twist at 2900 fps. and it hammers at extreme long range distances.

[@kencleg7721]

Same ballistics as a 300 wsm 185/190 Berger’s vld s ? I already built the 300 w a krieger barrel 1:12 twist shes one hole if I do my part 23” # 5 a little heavy but she shoots and I can tone down to 06 velocities if I feel runs r l 17/4350 h 380 type powder s the big 6.5 and 7 s need slower powders to perform my 6.5 x06 has served me well for 30 years 3 elk many goats and couse deer critters w 95 gr and white tails. And a bear w 160 s it’s my nasty weather rifle I’ve dropped the thing so many times and she still holds and shoots 3/8” groups best 1000 meter rifle I have

[@joshuabrown7906]

I love the idea of a "7mm Western" or "7mm PRC"!

[@keithprinn720]

existing 6.8 western just requires support from industry rifle and ammunition makers. He knew PRC was well in the development. a factory medium cost Cascade, Bergara, Tikka or cheaper options will fill gap for most. the specialists will get a custom or rebarrel an existing rifle.

[@allanburton9385]

We own three 280 AI's. I recognize that they are improved older cartridges.On paper the SAUM is better, and if I hand loaded that's probably what I"d get. But, there is getting to be lots of 280 AI offered by rifle and ammunition companies. The Federal Terminal Ascent performed perfectly on a mule deer and a bull moose this fall. My vote is 280 AI. A great cartridge, good availability in some of the best rifles out there.

[@ironDsteele]

"Because of the sharp shoulder a very positive headspace..." I'll admit as a reloader I never considered this benefit! Very cool.

[@e.l.robbins5614]

I'd choose the 280AI. I'm waiting on the 7PRC. I love the 6.5prc, but I'd like a little more power. 7Wby is my all time go to rifle.

[@ParadiseInHawaii0com]

Glad to see the 270 win come out of the other comparison. The 280AI get my vote for this one! 280AI

[@erikmonson5098]

280AI I love mine. Both the AI and 7SAUM are excellent and ballistic twins so great 7mm choices. The AI advantages over SAUM as I see them: More efficient, so less recoil (minor) Available on much much cheaper factory rifles Factory ammo for both 280AI and 280 Rem are compatible Those last 2 points were glossed over to make this a fair 7mm fight but those are huge and very relevant to hunters and your wallet! Love this video series!

[@shanekieffer1583]

280 AI Pre -64 featherweight action, 24” Hart fluted barrel (NY), McMillan stock, Leupold 3.5-10x40. H4350 & 120 gr ballistic tips . Taken a bunch of critters. Tested many bullets and they all shoot very well, user friendly round IMO

[@lawrencelewis1036]

The 7mm SAUM is about the maximum case volume/ bore size 7MM. 7mmSAUM is my favorite 7mm by far. Very good analysis!

[@BryanTheHunter513]

280 ai for me but it's one of my favorite cartridges, you can really get it screaming if you want. Comes in many offerings from manufacturers. I reload so ammo issues don't matter to me usually, but if something ever did happen the possibility to find ammo is nice.

[@matslindstrom6889]

Have you ever heard of the 7x64 mm? It shoots a 175 grains bullet at 2865 ft/sec from a barrel with 1:8.5" twist. One of the most popular hunting cartridges in Europe for more than a hundred years. Known for handling heavy bullets.

[@tomcurran8470]

The Steyr Mannlicher professional rifle came in 7x64 mm. I always thought that was the perfect combo until I learned about the 280 AI.

[@hugtango]

Man 7x64 was the hunting workhorse in Europe the first choice for young and seasoned hunters. A K98 action 24" barrel cheap super efficient TUG TIG Vulkan bullets..... It might come back as the 9.3x62 is Fantastic cartridge

[@davidallison5247]

A great round up on two incredible cartridges!! thanks again for your wise summing up 7mm SAUM gets my vote

[@sneakybow1]

280AI. My Cooper 92 in 280AI is a tack driver. Zero factory ammo availability is a deal breaker for a lot of people who don't reload. All ammo is hard to find now, but in a pinch you can still shoot 280 Rem in a 280 AI

[@joelclark2130]

Very good point brother oh, I forgot that's how you form your 280 Ackley improved brass

[@spencersecord3073]

Nosler, Hornady and federal all load 280AI

[@aarons307]

Even though the 7 SAUM has been a commercial cartridge longer than the 280 AI, there are no commercial offerings for the 7 SAUM. When Nosler stepped up and actually standardized the 280 AI for their line of new rifles, the public responded to that decades old custom wildcat and other manufacturers stepped up. By that time, the 7 SAUM had already become obsolete in Remingtons commercial offerings even though it was not even a decade old. But then the target shooters discovered the 7 SAUM nearly replicated the 7 WSM with less powder and it took off in that custom target rifle realm area. By that time Remington dropped it from their 700 line-up. About that time I picked up a used 7 SAUM in a stainless Rem 700. Collecting dust on the used shelf, discounted to $400 to get it the hell out of the shop. Even in the crappy tupperware stock, the damn thing shot 1/2" groups with 140 accubonds at 3150 fps. I put it in a better stock and it loves anything I feed it. There are about 4 companies making brass for each the 280 AI and & 7 SAUM and it has always been easier to find brass for the AI over the SAUM, as its bought up as fast as it hits the shelves. Fire forming 280 Rem brass was the standard way of making AI brass before it was standardizd so there's that option also. The 7 SAUM will never take off in commercial offering again because of its SAMMI overall length and length of Remington's short action, the magazine and action has to be customized to shoot those big heavy bullets above 162 grains. For either the 280 AI or SAUM, they both need custom leades cut to shoot the bigger .284 bullets. So really, if you're only wanting to shoot 140-160 bullets, pick up a 280 AI that is offered by some of the commercial manufactures. But, if you want to shoot the heavier bullets for long range work, build a custom SAUM and go have fun.

[@craiglovelace1753]

Currently own 2 customs in 280 AI and 1 custom in 7SAUM. Pretty much ballistic twins…..pretty hard to pick a rifle when I’m headed out hunting, as long as it’s a 7mm I feel your good to go.

[@Pledgeman]

I've been a 30 cal shooter and just started getting involved in the 7mm realm. I agree that if you "reload" you may find one of these to your liking. If you don't reload, good luck finding a factory box of 280 AI, 7SAUM, or even a 7WSM. If I have to start investing in custom barrels and such I might as well stick with what I've got. 7 MAG.

[@JuJu-ee6xx]

The hand loader in me says the 7SAUM, but as others pointed out, the lack of availability for any components right now (powder and primers most of all) would MAYBE push me to the 280AI. BUT, where I am, even factory ammo is hard to come by in "mainstream" calibers like 30-06, 7mm mag, let alone i've seen 0 280AI anywhere. Because I have Primers, brass can be sourced, bullet availability is getting better weekly, and powder can be found if you're fast enough with ordering, I give this one to the 7SAUM. If this was 2 years ago, i'd say 280AI all day. As it is, we are in a hand loaders game in North TX and the 7SAUM gets the win here.

[@jcarry5214]

I dunno brother, even on the best day 2 years ago where were you seeing a variety of 280AI for sale, let alone for less than 2.50 a shot? Probably more than I saw for sure but if I'm relying on boxed ammo I'm going '06, the benefits of the daughter aren't that great compared to selection, payload, selection and selection. If I'm buying a long action 7 it's the big Rem. I built a SAUM on a whim at the start of the great shortage, so I am biased. It was stupid easy to load for, I couldn't make it shoot over .75.

[@scarter176]

By using the competition ladder you have given it clarity ! Well done

[@hunteranderson93]

I have to go with 7 SAUM. However, either one is a fantastic choice! Like you said, it just depends if you reload or not.

[@aubreyroche5080]

Had to go into my loading room and look at my Cartridge poster...... 7 Saum is there, Fascinating

[@smokedbrisket3033]

280 AI is my most recent acquisition. I just need to find appropriate glass for it. I have A Frame 160 gr and Oryx 156 gr ready for load development.

[@matthieudangerous]

after seing one of youre other videos, i purchased a savage 110 ultralight in 280 AI. shot two deers and four coyotes. shoots nosler 150 ablrs into tiny little groups. really loving this caliber. i have not yet reloaded for it, i got hornady matchgrade dies. cant wait to see what it can do with the heavies. 👍🏻

[@jamesmooney5348]

I wish you included the 7 rem mag.

[@johnbodman4504]

I already have a 7mm Remington mag which I use for long range bench rest, it is accurate, however it is hard on barrels and on a hot day sometimes the barrel gets too hot for the last one or two shots to be accurate. I am thinking of adding a 280 Ackley for comps. on hot days, as there is less powder, less heat and longer barrel life.

[@20cameron1]

Even though the piece is a little more, the 280 AI really shows it’s hot performance out to 600 yards on big game. It actually pushes ahead of the 30-06.

[@davidh9659]

It better! it has the longer casing, more case capacity and massively higher pressure ceiling behind a smaller crossection projectile. It better do something ballistically that the 30-06 can't lol

[@mardio4motif]

THANK YOU!!! BRO! 👍🏾😎 … I JUST! LEFT A COMMENT A COUPLE DAYS AGO ABOUT WHY WAS THE .7mm SAUM LEFT OUT OF THE CONVERSATION IN THR .7mm CARTRIDGES! …. THANKS 🙏🏾 😊 FOR DOUBLING BACK! AND GIVING IT TO US! …. IM GRATEFUL!!! …. I RUN THAT CARTRIDGE IN MY GUNWERKS .7mm SAUM! EXCLUSIVELY! …. BESIDES MY .308 & 64x55 SWEDE …. 30-06 & .270 WIN… THANKS! AGAIN!! BRO 😎 …. NOT ENOUGH CONTENT OUT THERE ON THIS SHORT ACTION CASE CARTRIDGE…

[@jimjordan1485]

Have to go with the 280ai. Having factory support is a big advantage

[@brandonkiesser8271]

Dang I love the education I get from your videos. I wish I could have one on one schooling for a few years till I got it all straight and could had it all down to my son. Keep up the detailed info.

[@kandyswedberg1819]

I am voting for the .280ai. Not being int he position to build a perfect custom rifle, the production rifles in 280ai definitely have my attention. I am interested in seeing if they make a 7 (.280) prc.

[@scitzmnm]

I am currently gathering the parts for my build. It had to be a seven because seven is just that sweet spot for North American game. No matter how I looked at it the best seven out there for me is the saum. I am building it light with the intention of it primarily being for western hunting. However, I am getting a chassis that is easy to add weight kits to so that if it strikes my fancy, I can go ahead and take it to the range or some ELR.

[@davidortiz9859]

I owned a factory 280 for years the rate of twist was not very fast… but barrel life was superb… I feel you forgot to mention barrel life between 280AI & the SEVEN SAUM…. Being the 280AI uses less powder I feel it would give you more barrel life…. Any thoughts

[@KC-7mm]

I’m curious on the percentage of shooters that actually have shot out a barrel. It might be so low that it’s not even something to factor be interesting if there was a way to collect data on that. I’m trying to shoot out the barrel on my 7rem just as and excuse to try something different but can’t find the time to shoot.

[@unibrow3699]

I Own a Savage Ultralight in 280AI and it shoots lights out. My brother has a 7 SAUM and I would own either one. I do like being able to buy 280 AI ammo off the shelf (when I can find it)

[@RIParker]

I really think 7mm rem mag is a sweet spot itself. I guess if I had to pick from one of these Id go with 280AI. There are too many reasons to list why but that’s the short answer.

[@jasonreynolds5542]

Nice series of videos. I vote for the 280 ai. Factory support, you can always shoot the 280 Rem out of the 280 AI, increasing its flexibility. 7 mm SAUM is a fantastic cartridge also. The 284 Winchester should have been included in this list as well.

[@bradleytyrrell4417]

There are some folks already building 7 creedmoor, 7prc over here in Australia

[@brettstewart6036]

That sounds awesome mate any info on who is doing it would be very interested in checking it out cheers Yogi Victoria 🇦🇺🤙🤙

[@bradleytyrrell4417]

@@brettstewart6036 Allan Swan gunsmith gunsmith in qld and I'll have too look up the other chap

[@brettstewart6036]

@@bradleytyrrell4417 thanks for the reply mate hope you and your family have a great Christmas bro cheers Yogi 🤙🤙

[@bradleytyrrell4417]

@@brettstewart6036 hope you and your family have a good Xmas and a happy new year

[@redleg84]

Great choice for the episode. I have a 280ai and am currently building a 7ss (modified saum). Which one to get? Both

[@thecenter76]

280 AI all the way. Great shooting and can do a number on any game. I also enjoy having options for ammo due to not reloading.

[@stoli-9574]

This cartridge war is by far my favorite thing on the internet!

[@tylarhaugan7908]

Love the 280 ackley using 168 barnes lrx deadly elk load. And steel/coyote load 175 eldx

[@ruthbreth3944]

What kind of speed are you getting with the LRX? What barrel length?

[@tylarhaugan7908]

@@ruthbreth3944 25 inch 2950

[@tylarhaugan7908]

@@ruthbreth3944 using IMR 7828

[@johnbodman4504]

For competition shooting Berger do a good 180 grain projectile and I think a new 195 grain, though I have not seen it, as I stopped competing before they came out. I have three 7mm rem mags, two for competition and one for hunting, I always use 1 in 9 twist. The 280 Ackley sounds good, if I ever get back to shooting I will try it.

[@gmino8038]

If you’re going short barrel with a suppressor that answer is 7SAUM. If you plan on reloading the answer is definitely 7SAUM!

[@traviscore8681]

Waiting to hear on the sherman line. I absolutely love my 7ss and they have several others

[@brewerbutler9588]

only 10 fps more and little to no factory support?! The 280 AI takes the cake for practicality. I wish you had showed us a ballistics chart, always find those revealing even if its small differences.

[@Sagaris380]

A buddy of mine did something cool. He took a rem700 in 7WM and put a 7wsm barrel on it. So he has the standard mag but can run the bullets extra long for even more powder. He is well over 3k and has no feeding issues.

[@joemiller9314]

280 AI all the way. Not everyone is a hand-loader, but 280AI we can still find reloading components (brass, dies) for right now and loaded ammo still hard to find but attainable. 7saum.. good luck

[@leonardogarcia2506]

Most handloaders are getting more like 2950 out of the saum with a 175 grain pill. Also, federal terminal ascent is coming out with a 175 grain bullet. As of now, my favorite is the 175 grain ablr until I get to see how the terminal ascents shoot.

[@ryan_root]

7 SAUM - my western hunting cartridge of choice. Agreed, this one is for the handloaders but one could argue, it is the best do-all hunting cartridge for big game in the lower 48. The SAUM is superior in every category aside from 2, factory support and mag capacity. Neither of which bothered me. shorter - lighter - faster . . . . . hard to argue with. The 280 AI is tried and true. It gets a lot of love on the forums. Its a package people trust, its just not be the best.

[@jcarry5214]

I built one and love it, it's so friendly to use. Brass is hard to find but what difference does that make right now? The brass that is available is outstanding. My only beef with it is fitting 2 less in my flush savage mag like you said. I've got 180's stuffed in there running mild at around 2675.. That's losing a bunch of powder to fit in the mag and it's still got legs. 168's I don't know exactly but it's up around 2800. That's an immense SD (for elk) zipping at 30-06 speeds with a lot less drift. The recoil is so manageable too, I wish I'd bought a thinner barrel taper, didn't need to be scared of that even target shooting. In my gun at least the rumors of feeding problems are absolutely unfounded, better than when the gun was a 6.5.

[@ryan_root]

@@jcarry5214 yeah, to really wake this cartridge up with the heavier bullets you have to run an intermediate or long action. Then you can run COALs out to well over 3” and turn up the speed. My 168s are at 2850 fps, they worked great on elk last year. This year I switched to 143 hammers. They are at just under 3100 fps and worked great at 425 yds on a coues. ADG brass has worked great for me. Very high quality stuff, super consistent.

[@jcarry5214]

@@ryan_root Yeah I lucked into some once fired ADG/Gunwerks stamped brass, pretty nice stuff. No fireforming required, just set it back a couple from a moderate close and good to go, very sweet. I'm right at 3" and it has a long throat/running start which helps, I'm not robbed by too much. It's really very respectable where it's at. If someone handed me a long action savage I'd probably screw it on and change the short action to a 300 wsm. I've been eyeballing the 155 absolute hammers, I think that might be my ticket for next year. I talked to a guy who was getting great performance and had taken elk with the 172 absolutes out of a 2.9" SAUM, I bet I could get the 155 cooking.

[@kc-md8we]

The 6.8 Western is basically what Akley would have done with the 270 WSM cartridge. You are absolutely correct that it is long overdue for that upgrade to the 7mm WSM cartridge. It could be the dominant Elk cartridge. I am getting tired of waiting though.🤷‍♂️

[@phild9813]

I’d choose a 7mm08 if I were buying a 7mm. I don’t own any 7s, but it’s the only one I really find appealing personally.

[@phild9813]

That’s a lie, actually. All of the WSMs are intriguing to me. Wish the 7 was more popular.

[@cycleguy728]

Went 308 and never looked back. Said my days of trying different rifle cartridges and rifles is done and over. However, my admiration for 7mm wouldn't stay dormant! My first big game rifle a Saaayyyyko (how it was pronounced 30 years ago) in 7mm Remington Mag tainted me for life, both 7mm and Sako style action. I grew tired of a 10lb rifle and a rock hard rubber butt pad, and sold to go less weight. Purchased 30-06, 270 win, 308 win, 7mm-08 (couldn't find any 280 rem rifle I liked at the time); 308 won that battle and has served well for decades of combined rifle season, deer & elk. Summer 2021 I enter a Sheels for my first time, handle every gun in the firearms department, and couldn't hold back on a new gun purchase. (Had learned of the 280 AI way back when I let my 7mag go. The 280AI was still a wildcat then and I couldn't afford a Jarret custom, but knew I wanted a 280 AI to replace my 7mag. Many years later I heard Nosler Saami'ed the 280AI and I knew I was one step closer to getting one). In August I found a Weathermark could be had in 280AI if ordered from the Weatherby web page. I now have that rifle scoped and 16 rounds down the barrel. Rifle scoped (no ammo or sling) weighs 7lbs 2 oz. recoil is around 60/40 between 308 (also 7lb 2oz) and 7mag/30-06 and when the brake is used drops down around 308/270 level. I was told by other gun people it would be around the 243 level, but I'm not finding this. I still have the ballistic specs from 30 year ago and the 7mm Remington Mag Winchester Super X ammunition I used runs about 100ft-lbs less energy on target than todays 280AI ammunition by Nosler. I suspect all guns are more gun now than they were 30 years ago given advancements in powder and bullets. 7 SAUM is cool and apparently has it place on the gun range but seems absent among hunters; I suspect for a reason. I had no idea it has been around for about a decade. Only heard of it a few months ago when I started learning all the old cartridges don't work no more and are now replaced with 6.5 creed, prc, rpm, 6.8 western, 7 saum and so on!!! My vote goes to the 280 AI, and it should now have moved a notch higher on the cartridge popularity list since I've bought one. I have to wonder if the 280 Rem was done as a 65k pressure cartridge, would the 280 AI still be a wildcat? All in, you are probably correct... be on the lookout for the 280 PRC!

[@mnharris10]

🥱 I’m sitting this round out. Interesting discussion but neither of these rounds do anything for me. I really don’t see what the average dude gets out of these, I think the 7mm mag and the 7mm08 cover the high and the low ends of what I would do with a 7mm.

[@davidh1249]

mnharris- I bought a 7mm-08 a few years ago,not knowing a lot about the caliber,and after hunting last deer season with it and part of this one it has really impressed me.Even in an entry level gun(Weatherby Vanguard) it is deadly accurate using factory ammo and recoil is very light.

[@Gunker02]

I share the same sentiment with 3006. 308 and 300 wm cover everything in my book.

[@nickb8618]

Been shooting the 7 wsm for 20 yrs. It’s excellent and is a hammer!

[@cliffking1215]

7wsm, mine launches 183 smk's at 3k fps out of a 24" barrel. Plug those #'s into your ballistic calculator👍

[@seanmurphy243]

I'm in the same boat, beginning a suppressed 22" rifle build for Moose and Elk at a max of 300 yards. Looking to shoot Monos for moose but maybe long high BC for elk/moose. Bouncing between 280AI, 7 SAUM (Pretty much out, brass is difficult to get, very little factory ammo), 7 WSM (Tempting but I'm concerned with how much longer there will be factory support), 6.8 Western (Factory support, lots of components, not a ton of demand). I'm sure I'm forgetting others. Gonna be a toss up.

[@nathanmccullough7755]

Two of my favorites that I've never fired. I decided that I wanted a custom 280 AI years ago and never had one built. I'm now thinking a 7 saum is for me. My votes is the SAUM. I think it's the best 7 on the market.

[@timnichols3582]

My vote is 280 Ackley. I also just bought one for $1,180.66. I was thinking about buying a can for it and would love to hear everyone's thought on which might work well with a savage 110 ultralight.

[@edwardhoward4708]

Silencer central published a terrific comparison of about 30 different cans. Highly recommended!

[@dakotabarriger4546]

Tough one, but I'm going with 280ai

[@G5Hohn]

One of the main appeals of the 280ai is brass stability. The sharper shoulder really reduces brass stretch and helps case life. If you don't FL size excessively and FL size every time, you can get really good case life.

[@tomcurran8470]

I have 7mm Remington Magnum cases from the 70s that I only neck sized and they are still good. Neck sizing is the way to go.

[@RobotoGato1]

The 270 winning is still blowing my mind...folk is voting with they heart

[@AlienMetals]

Agreed, personally I would have went with the 6.8 Western. People have a very difficult time getting over there personal bias.

[@tomcurran8470]

The Steyr Mannlicher professional rifle was offered in 7x64mm (a Euro 280 Remington) back in the early 70s. It had a non-wood stock, which was ahead of its time. That says something. I have had much experience with the 7mm Remington Magnum when i was younger, but am going with the 280 AI now.

[@CaptainCatchALot]

280 AI - It is perfection!

[@ummtone]

Just have to say, this thumbnail looked amazing!! Great video too!

[@backfire]

Thank you!

[@foubert45]

I can’t believe .270 beat 6.8 😂 obviously because it has a old fan base but can people make the unbiased decision and realize 6.8 is a newer, faster and better in every way option

[@hikenmikes8262]

It’s interesting how the “magazine capacity” topic was not mentioned during the 30-06 vs 300WSM video

[@travise8008]

7 SAUM and it will be my next custom rifle!

[@freedomlover425]

Since you brought up suppressors and shorter barrels, what's the shortest barrel length you would consider for a 300wsm for Elk? Also (but not to influence your answer to question #1), if you were planning an 18 inch barreled, suppressed elk rifle, what would you chamber it in?