High-shoulder vs Lung shot: Where to Shoot a Deer with a rifle

[@seikibrian8641]

"Where to Shoot a Deer with a rifle." If I see a deer with a rifle, I'm not shooting, I'm running!

[@herbalnedtv]

Lol! 😳😂

[@ev3dale298]

Best comment I've seen about deer hunting all year.

[@herbalnedtv]

Lol! 😳🤣

[@dr.froghopper6711]

Too reminiscent of other times that my target was shooting back. Puts a pucker in your bung that’s really hard to get rid of.

[@gunguy-yg2zr]

I don’t think anyone will ever convince me to change my shot placement. Double lung shot. Follow the leg straight up to middle of the body then move back about 2 inches off the shoulder. Dead every time. No meat wasted other than a couple ribs. I have lost a shoulder a couple times but it is very rare. More often than not no meat wasted. Sometimes the deer will drop in their tracks, sometimes they’ll run 20 yds with a massive blood trail, sometimes they’ll run 50 yds with no blood trail at all. But they always die within 50 in my experience and I’ve become a pretty good tracker. To me it’s just logically and ethically the right shot.

[@TomR61]

I like lung shots in most situations, but I do high shoulder shots in my area due to really heavy brush. I'm sure you can relate to that type of conditions.

[@shizlittlebam]

Didn't go 20

[@swiftusmaximus5651]

The Guts or Hams, thats a Texas Heart shot

[@DBCooper-o2s]

Neck ALWAYS results in Bang-Flop, DRT. You have spinal cord, jugular and esophagus. He ain't going to a property line or off a cliff.

[@larryfenner1754]

I agree 100 percent

[@dougdoris8622]

Opening day for gun season was this past Saturday in Missouri. I hunted with my two friends and we had all watched this video. We all shot a deer on Saturday and we all used the high shoulder shot. All three deer went down immediately and all of us were impressed. Thanks for sharing your experience. We are all impressed and will continue to aim for the shoulder.

[@someguy325es]

I process my own deer. I usually have to do about 10 of them a year between myself and family. If we all did high shoulder shots on all 10 we would probably be wasting 50 lbs of meat between all of them and spend a lot of time cutting blood shot meat and bone chips. I think the high shoulder shot is great if you have a lot of time to get set up for a really good accurate shot and you really need to anchor the animal, like if it’s heading across an unfriendly property line. I’m going to keep taking double lung/ top of the heart shots because it makes my life a lot easier processing.

[@bigdaddy4691]

Sometimes more. I work in a processing shop. I have processed 2 comparable large deer. Counting the wasting of the front part of the backstraps, both shoulders(caliber matters), and part of the neck meat. The 2 people who hunted together were flabbergasted when the guy who blew up half his deer meat got nearly 30 lbs. less meat.

[@themegasexybasterd]

@@bigdaddy4691 cal. matters but doesn't the bullet matter more?

[@bigdaddy4691]

@@themegasexybasterd Sometimes is does. I've used high end ballistic tipped .270 WSM and blown a hole I could fit my hand in in a deer's chest with a heart shot. I now only use bonded soft points.

[@wdtaut5650]

Yes. I would like to see an illustrated explanation of how the high shoulder shot has "very little meat damage" (3:32), and how the traditional shot has "a very high likely hood of major meat damage" (7:28). I plan to keep relying on the double lung, through-and-through.

[@themegasexybasterd]

@@bigdaddy4691 soft points is what I have always used but I think Im going to try some solid copper this year.

[@johnpoole8321]

Top of the heart for the win. Very good results for my 46 years shooting them.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

The kick and jump and run off somewhere, don't they?

[@7.62x51mm]

@@exothermal.sprocket50/50

[@snookmeister55]

​@@exothermal.sprocket Ray Charles could track a heart shot deer and mine are very close by.

[@jleano609]

Same, just got a 130 lb TX whitetail yesterday with the top of the heart/lung shot. He ran about 15 yards. Easy track but no blood trail. I was shooting .243 so not a big hole and no exit. With the same gun and shot I either anchor them or they run 10-20 yards typically. No more.

[@HA51971]

Double lung shot is traditional because it has worked, still works, and will continue to work (kinda like the good ole 30.06) no matter what you are shooting. Within reason of course. Bigger margin for error as well. I’m picking double lung every time. And if that high shoulder shot does “stun” it and it gets back up, guaranteed a deer isn’t getting up from a double lung shot.

[@operationNOBO]

There is no animal that can survive a hole through its lungs. That trapper in AK that used a 220 swift to kill grizzlies shot out their lungs. I recall seeing a poacher kill a bull moose with a .50 cal pump air rifle and shot it in the lung.

[@paulstaney325]

Tried and true, you let the air outa them with a double lung shot and they don't go far!

[@paulstaney325]

06 fan too.

[@johnstruewing1164]

You’re right. The key is to stop oxygenated blood from reaching the brain. That big hole through the lungs interrupts that blood flow. Even if the heart is still beating it is pumping blood into the “boiler room”. The brain shuts down in the matter of 1 - 2 minutes. After that, it doesn’t go anywhere. Besides, the only way to truly bleed out your deer is to shoot it through the lungs. You want the heart to pump all of that blood out of the muscles. Old butchers don’t destroy the heart first, they stun or destroy the brain, they cut the carotid artery and let the animal bleed. Generations of old hunters used to cut the throat of their dead deer which accomplished absolutely nothing but to ruin good neck roasts. If the heart is destroyed, the deer can’t be bled. That’s why I won’t take a heart shot.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

"it has worked, still works, and will continue to work" What do you mean, it works? If by "works" meaning, it kicks up its hind legs, runs off into the wilderness/woods/grassland somewhere leading to a trailing expedition and all the stories behind that (from minutes to days, to never finding it)? Why not just drop it where it stands and be done with it? Tradition is blind. Blasting mass hydraulic shock (that destroys tissues, busts, bones, turns stuff into jelly) ON....or NEAR the spinal chord isn't going to "stun" them. Ever set a soup can on top of a 2x4 and shot the can, completely blasting that 2x4 into pieces from the hydraulic shock? Pretty "stunning."

[@neelsmuller3716]

I am a Professional Hunter and a Photographic Safari guide here in Africa for the last 30 years , I have seen more wounded and miss shots from international hunters who go for the high shoulder shots on African game then any other shot. High shoulder shots have more meat damage than a lung shot to on African game. We, local hunters hunt mostly for meat, the majority of us will shoot , for example’ a side on animal… come straight up on the front leg, go one third up from where the breast ( body) starts. I hear the some people say that a deers heart is further back than African game, that I don’t know.But like I said, I saw more wounded animals and miss shots from people who take high shoulder shots then any other shot. Also, I hunt a lot of game for meat on my African farm and process the meat myself, I got 18 different rifles, from muskets, .22 LR up to 458 Lott, but most of my hunting here on normal plains game is with a modern 7 mm Mauser ( 7x57) with 160 gr Speer Hot Core ( flat based ) bullets…… my brother loves his 308, ( we both reload ourself)…… just for those who are interested, lol,…… have good hunting!

[@backfire]

Good info.

[@stevep8363]

I would suspect most non-local safari clients are wealthy and spend more time on private jets than practicing their marksmanship. That might be the cause more than anything.

[@randallpeters9957]

Tried this high shoulder shot yesterday. Worked amazingly well. 100% lights out, not a twitch. Upon processing, we found about 3 inches of the spine was absolutely mangled on the bottom. No waste on the forelegs. I'm sold on the high shoulder shot. Great info, thanks for sharing.

[@FreebornJohnLillburne]

Does it ruin the meat

[@ShepFL002]

Older solo hunter here and for my entire life been using traditional double lung shot. Rifle, Muzzleloader and Archery. Living in FL with brush growing 7x24 and swamps. Will try this high shoulder shot. Gets tiring tracking thru chest high brush. Running .270 Win with 140 gr. Nosler reload. Looking fwd to results from end of yr survey.

[@LL-pd9dg]

I favor a neck shot just below the head. I was amazed there are so few of your viewers who commented on this method. Fifteen years ago, when I started hunting deer, a good friend who had been hunting at least 40 years told me the neck shot was the best. The deer will drop right where it was shot. It also does not ruin any valuable meat. My friend also told me he has hunted with all different calibers and preferred 30 caliber rifles as a minimum. There is a lot to be said about diameter. Consider being shot with a sewing needle traveling at 10,000 ft per second, or a bowling ball traveling at 200 feet a second. Where I hunt, the brush is dense. If a deer runs 5 yards, it is likely going to be in a blackberry thicket. The tree stand has a height of 20 ft. A few years ago, I shot a buck just below the head with an old 30-30, at a distance of 50 yards. It dropped as though the legs were cut off. The hydrostatic shock fractured the skull of the deer. There was no damage to any valuable meat.

[@leonnefourie1857]

Could be a risky shot if you have like 3 seconds in African bush.

[@LL-pd9dg]

@@leonnefourie1857 Being up 20 feet off the ground in a tree stand, I have the luxury of waiting to take a clean shot. Once spent hours following a blood trail through a briar thicket, due to bad shot which was the result of a loose scope rail (someone else mounted the scope). It was not fun. The hydrostatic shock from a proper neck shot drops the deer where it stands. If I were in Africa, perhaps my shot placement method would be different. I doubt that I will ever hunt there. At least here in the states, you typically do not have to worry about something hunting you, while you are hunting. 🙂

[@orestwitiw213]

Good morning Jim from cold northern Ontario. I only have ever taken a shoulder shot on one animal I hunted. It was a dry cow moose no calf with her. She was 190-200 yards away and I decided that didn’t want the moose to take off into the bush towards a swamp. I took the shot and the cow dropped where she stood as the shot went through the scapula and hit the spine. This year I had an 8 point buck standing in my lane 60 yards away facing me. I only shoot double lung shots on deer because there is little to no waste of meat. With the double lung shot I have found that the deer seldom go more than 50-75 yards before they hit the ground. The buck I had in my lane this year stood facing me for over 13 minutes before he finally turned broadside walking away and I had to quickly get on him and fire with my Tikka T3X 7mm-08. It was an off hand shot but I felt good about it. There was no blood at the spot I shot him or in the bush that I could find. I kept walking in the bush and found the buck about 50 yards away. There was zero damage to the meat and I hit the lungs. No high shoulder or neck shot for me. Broadside is a nice big target!

[@grob25]

As a hunter ed instructor, these are the videos that make for some long nights, teaching kids to shoot the "traditional" shot. I get this question and I understand the allure. "My favorite youtube hunter said 'xy and z' so that is what I want to do". Thank you Jim.

[@daniels362]

Very good information. It would be great if you could talk more about what you mean by very little meat loss with a high shoulder shot. That high shoulder is one of my favorite cuts on the front half of a deer. Maybe make a video butchering a shoulder shot deer to demonstrate meat loss?

[@JefferyAshmore]

Agreed.

[@fjordweit6170]

From a German perspective the high shoulder shot is a risky thing, if your shot come too high. The shot will touch the spinous backbones and the deer will be short time stunned, but then the deer will quickly and suddenly escape. Without a good gundog the deer will be lost. The general recommendation in the german Basic hunter Training is a deep lung / heart shot („behind or under the shoulder“). A shoulder shot is only recommended for a bad injured deer as a „stopper shot“ to finish the escape and to kill immediately.

[@josephhonomichl5240]

Thanks for another interesting video. I have always gone for the "boiler room" shot, aiming about 1/3 up the chest along the back edge of the front leg. My goal is to take out the lungs and hopefully also get the top of the heart. This is a forgiving shot that allows for deer movement and a less than perfect shot. I use Nosler BT ammo, which makes a small hole going in and a big hole coming out and the deer rarely moves more than 50 yards after the shot.

[@cwebb07]

Thats not “boiler room”. That would be a headshot

[@DrewEdwardBacklas]

I’ve taken multiple deer with all 3 shots mentioned (high shoulder, heart, and double lung) plus high neck shots. The high shoulder does anchor them in their tracks often but damages the most meat no question. Heart shot little tougher to make but they run a little less than a double lung. Double lung biggest margin for error least chance of meat loss they run a little ways. My shot placement is often dictated by shot angle and distance. Inside 100 yards I like the heart shot if the angle permits, as distance and difficulty increase I gravitate towards the double lung shot. I just think high shoulder damages too much meat unless your literally on the edge of a cliff and need them to drop. Otherwise I don’t care if they run a few dozen yards.

[@Andrew-jm4tp]

I couldn't have said it better. Thanks for writing this and saving me the time.

[@jimk59]

Agree, except if it's my target buck (wall hanger) I'm going high shoulder as I care less about the meat. Does get the heart shot.

[@danielsooon8128]

How does caliber dictate your shot? I’ll be hunting with 223 this season and I’m thinking double lung is likely best.

[@DrewEdwardBacklas]

@@danielsooon8128 .223 is more capable than people give it credit for. I’ve killed 2 whitetail with 223 and they were double lung shots. I’ve killed 2 deer with a .22hornet and shot one in the neck just below the base of the skull and one in the heart. Bullet choice is more of a determining factor in my opinion. If it’s a copper solid in 223 it shouldn’t matter within a couple hundred yards it will punch through a shoulder if that’s what you want to do. If it’s a lighter construction bullet then maybe avoid big bones. That said the two whitetail I killed with 223 were with 55g vmax bullets and had full pass through on both. Doesn’t take much to kill a deer.

[@Andrew-jm4tp]

@@danielsooon8128 don't let anyone tell you .223 isn't good for deer. It works just fine if you choose the right bullet. Don't use full metal jacket or varmint bullets. Get a soft point or a copper expanding bullet.

[@andrewpuckett5295]

First deer of the year this weekend. 60 yards away slightly quartering high angle (i was 35 foot up on top of a cliff) small deer still walking in a shallow river. Traditional double lung slightly high posterior through liw anterior behind the opposite shoulder with 45-70. Massive blood loss, went 25 yards tops and frankly I was impressed he made it that far. No meat ruined just ribs, which was my intention.

[@jeffogden6240]

love thinking about a deer as 3d. it's critical with a bow, but if i have a choice, i always go for double lungs. they can't run with no air. the muscles lock up. maybe a 60 yard track at most, includes elk. great video!!!

[@heinrichstoltz1356]

Your video address hunting deer, therefore I think it is a very fair and reliable presentation. You make a good point on knowing anatomy, there are many, many, many blue wildebeest and gemsbuck (oryx) to name just two who are running around with scars on them attesting to failed attempts on high shoulder shots. The high shoulder shot has very little room for error and mostly leads to hitting the spinal processes, and only knocking them out temporarily.

[@dougwilkinson-uq3xr]

I think it is extremely important that you only take some of these shots depending if the deer is broadside. If you can't consistently produce 1 moa or better you need really consider taking the shot at the largest kill zone. Also type of bullet can seriously dictate where your aimpoint should be.

[@CabinOnTheWater]

My last deer taken was at 98 yards with a single broadside traditional double lung shoot between two trees using my 30-06 rifle. The deer ran about 25-30 yards straight ahead and died. Massive blood trail to follow and an easy find in the fall leaves. Inside 100 yards I may start trying the high shoulder. Beyond that I'll probably stick to double lung to give more room for error.

[@gradyhernandez4699]

What rifle were you using

[@adublbeatz8656]

I taught my wife the boiler room shot, and she has it down pat. No deer has run over 20 yards on her. But, I am a blood hound, I still get a thrill out of tracking. LOL. I've done the high shoulder shot and it has worked. But, that shot is more of a "if everything is perfect" shot (to me) than any of them. My Uncle didn't allow frontal or head shots on his property, so we had a few deer named "Lucky" growing up hunting🤣🤣🤣...... As with anything, get the reps in. Go to the range or wherever you shoot, and get them shots in with your rifle. Another good video, thanks for sharing.

[@loganchandler9383]

I’m glad to see another hunter that prefers the high shoulder shots

[@Cjtarinelli]

Excellent video! I would like to add another shot placement, which is the high-lung shot. It's just a bit behind and below the high-shoulder shot. It drops game in their tracks, loses very little meat, and offers good margin for error. I have shot many "lights-out" animals with this shot!

[@johnmead8437]

Risky and very frustrating shot if loss happens. The gap between top of lung & spine is not fatal, they can leap back to life & gone. Mostly big ones (150kg liveweight up), but worth knowing the risk.

[@carlwillden3994]

I am one of the 8% guys , I have been hunting for over 50 years and the high shoulder shot is by far my preferred shot unless you like to practice your tracking skills. great video Jim.

[@gradyhernandez4699]

Can a 222 Remington do the job when shot there

[@joeyd4079]

I've never double lunged a deer and it go more than 50 yards. No tracking involved I think with your full of shit or possibly a shitty shot

[@johnstruewing1164]

Then you missed learning about how newer bullets can help prevent your deer from running so far. Even with your experience, there have been improvements. Double lung hits usually drop most deer within 30 - 50 yds. Mostly within sight or hearing of the hunter. I use a Winchester Classic Featherweight in 6.5X55 Swede. I did have a Douglas barrel installed. I prefer a Barnes 120 gr TTS. My load chronographs at 2780 fps. No magnums, no cannons. None have gone 30 yds. Always double lung at quiet deer

[@gradyhernandez4699]

@@johnstruewing1164 yes! I have read articles stating that the 6.5 x 55 mm swede takes down moose in Scandinavia!!

[@gradyhernandez4699]

@@johnstruewing1164 I have read that in Scandinavia they use a swedish Mauser { 6.5 x 55} on Moose .

[@bradsessomsable]

I knew I recognized you. Watched a lot of your project 24 videos. Shot 3 this yr. Always aimed for heart shots. Usually high heart. Small doe heart shot dropped in spot Large doe, clipped top of hesr and lungs. Ran 20yrds crashed into tree. Spun around hit another tree and dropped. Medium size doe (I was 30" up a tree on a hill and deer in ravine) so I aimed higher lung. She ran her ass off. Hella blood trail (blood everywhere) say she ran a solid 150 to 200yrds. Was honestly shocked based on blood loss how far she made it.

[@lukeafannin]

Hey so I tried the high shoulder shot this weekend and will say that having the deer drop without a step is nice considering the situation. I shot in some very thick vegetation/timber which I made the decision for the high shoulder. I would have favored a little lower in the vitals but I think for my preference my shot placement is dictated by the situation presented. Thanks for the video and the info provided.

[@docwells7]

Thanks for the excellent tip. I just started hunting again after a 25 year hiatus. I saw this video and checked it out because I killed a buck last week with a traditional double lung shot. He ran and ended up about two hundred yards away in the woods. I shot a door this morning with a high shoulder shot and she dropped like a bag of bricks. I especially enjoyed the graphics of the vitals. There are no guarantees in this sport, but unless I’m faced with a difficult angle, I’m going to continue to use the high shoulder shot from now on. I’ll be sure to check in after the season to see how your survey changes. I’m also a die hard 30-06 fan, but have a .270 Remington I’m dusting off for the future. Subbed for sure.

[@cw5986]

For nearly 40 years, 99% of the deer I've taken went two feet to the ground from my shoulder shots. Excellent video!

[@garynicholls72]

Gary here from the UK thank you so much for the info, it's difficult to make the perfect shot you just makes it a lot easier, I will try this technique from now on, please keep the videos coming 10/10 for the info

[@BrandonHartsell]

High shoulder is fantastic. It anchors the deer. If your a little off in any direction it still works and they never go far. It is also very forgiving on the type of bullet you use: hollow point or polymer tip. I think it is the go to placement in Europe. I prefer to anchor the deer and traditional placement doesn’t seem to get that result.

[@waynebrown2546]

My brother has been preaching high shoulder for years. After hitting a gut shot by just a bit behind the on a quartering away last year. I took the next high shoulder after my brother announced he would no longer help on any deer gut shot when we process or have to drag it a 100 yrds uphill on a 30 degree slope. Thanks for the vid Jim!

[@MikeSessler]

Last deer I shot was a high shoulder. Bullet went in just below the spine and it dropped like the strings were cut. It was just like the first shot you showed in this video. Made me a believer.

[@FreebornJohnLillburne]

Did it destroy the meat

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Over 30 years of whitetail hunting with basically every "type"(archery, slug gun, handgun, muzzy, rifle) tool, I have taken so many "types" of shots. I have most generally tried to take the traditional double lung. I have had poor shot placement and sadly lost a few. When I have taken high shoulder or neck shots they have all absolutely dropped where they stood. I still typically try to get the traditional shot for various reasons but if it isn't the best option a shoulder or neck shot might be. We have found that certain bullets heavily fragment in the shoulder and make a real mess causing us to lose more meat than necessary. I think this is a factor to consider in this equation also. Thank you for good content. Happy and safe hunting you all.

[@terryslaton5582]

Like Berber’s bullet ?…shrapnel city.

[@jimjamm9318]

Agreed. I’m switching to copper mono’s and expect the high shoulder to be effective shot placement for this ammo

[@snookmeister55]

Copper made me a believer. Lighter bullet, higher velocity, stays together. . .@jimjamm9318

[@FreebornJohnLillburne]

Which bullets should you avoid

[@jimjamm9318]

@@FreebornJohnLillburne avoid highly frangible bullets like varmint rounds. Choose rounds with high weight retention.

[@murphdoesit]

My man knows how to make a good video. States the question and answer in first minute and great timing of the video

[@carm4450]

Awesome! More shot placement videos please. Like cover other scenarios and angles.

[@novicereloader]

Agreed. Also, covering more species would be helpful.

[@mclt8883]

You need to do survey not before mid Dec. Here in Midwest (Mi) we don't start until Nov. 15th and surrounding states focus around that time.

[@HollywoodMGB3]

On a full broad side shot, I aim middle of leg and 1/3-1/2 way up. Drops them right there. Curious on the feedback, I was always told high shoulder you lose alot of meat.

[@raytyre750]

High shoulder, low shoulder, anytime you hit big bone you lose considerable meat. Low BEHIND the shoulder is your best body shot for meat loss. Unless you have zero woods skills and can't track a heart shot deer.

[@guyminer3168]

Hi Jim! Am glad that you included that last little cautionary note at the end of your video - mentioning the possibility of hitting too high and just stunning the deer. I've seen this happen - when my hunting partner's buck dropped instantly I told him to chamber another round and get ready. Good thing he did! Buck got up, and got shot again, putting him down for good. Good video. Typically I go for the high shoulder as well, but any of those good vital area hits work well.

[@mrzrog]

Every heart shot I have ever made resulted in a lot of blood for about 20-30 yards. Every high shoulder shot required no tracking as they dropped instantly. I made one gut shot which was horrific and took hours to track. I know a person who takes neck shots with a 62gr TTSX from a 22-250 and says he has never needed to track and loses little to no meat. He is however an exceptionally good shot and is very patient.

[@WinnieThePugh]

Shoulder shots drop instantly because you've physically crippled their front leg(s) not because you necessarily hit a vital organ

[@MarkSmith-bd5zv]

I enjoyed the follow up video, and I appreciate the feedback I received on the shot placement graph. I've had great results with the heart shot, and yes most of the time the deer will run about 15 to 20 yards before going down. Now I have a disability, and don't get around so well. If I get the opportunity to go hunting, I need the deer to drop where I shoot it. I plan to try the high shoulder next time my son in law and grandsons take me out hunting.

[@gradyhernandez4699]

My first deer was taken with a british.303 Enfield mk 3 with a weaver scope using Remington ammo

[@gradyhernandez4699]

You have a good son in law apparently.

[@MarkSmith-bd5zv]

The best

[@beestoe993]

The thing about the "double lung" shot is I like to tuck it just a little low above the heart and that will deliver trauma if not damage to the heart as well while still giving a really good margin of error. Center mass is the ticket for me, which is why I wont go right at the heart or a high shoulder shot.

[@mf8562]

I made my first intentional high should shot last season. Previously I always aimed for heart or lung. It was an Oklahoma 9 point buck standing broadside, 170 yards, using .308 150 grain Remington core lokt. The buck fell where he should and did not take even a half step. A very effective shot but when uncertain of the shot, I will always go for heart/lung. I say intentional because in past years I have sometimes hit deer and had the drop where they stood and in retrospect they high shoulder shots. I did not know about the mass of nerves in the high shoulder area.

[@sethmatherne7012]

I have been thinking about the high shoulder shot for quite some time and will be my target if I get any opportunities this year. Not having to track a deer is always the best. I like to consider myself a good woodsmen and blood trail tracker, but I'd rather be a better shot and have instant confirmation.

[@redoakranch1783]

My son made a nice quartering away high shoulder shot at about 40 yards this year. 308 Barnes 150 copper at about 40 yards, dropped immediately. Took out a few ribs, pinched a hole through the opposite shoulder blade and was recovered!

[@chrisengstrom8247]

The center of the lungs is where I generally advise people to shoot because it gives you the greatest margin of error in all directions. I tell people to visualize a basketball inside the front of the Deers chest and aim at the center of that

[@jonquirk9582]

Excellent way to help new hunters visualize the kill zone!

[@scotthutcheson5941]

I learned the high shoulder shot many years ago from a good friend and a great hunter. It has has worked for me every time since.

[@FreebornJohnLillburne]

Does it ruin the meat? Should you aim for the curvature of the shoulder blade?

[@benjaminhamm3957]

Best point made at the very end. No matter what, be prepared to shoot again. I shudder to think how many animals are lost due to overconfidence in the first shot.

[@jd_flick]

showing the examples of the shots in the beginning was eye opening. absolutely fantastic video

[@stans5270]

When you shot the deer using the high shoulder shot, what did the shoulder look like after it was hit? The two things that I envision is that the bone shatters and causes additional trauma into the chest, and the shoulder being hit is like a hip being shattered, immediate immobility.

[@MrDan1509]

Lots of meat wasted! High Shoulder shots are for Horn hunters!

[@novicereloader]

A little over a week ago, I got a pronghorn at 296 yd (I estimated it to be 280). It was not quite full 1/4 to me, showing left flank with a 5mph wind almost directly from its rear toward the head. I went for a high shoulder, hitting about 1.5 inches low and left of my point of aim. I completely forgot to account for wind in my excitement. I ended up catching the top edge of the left lung, severed the aorta, destroyed the top forward third of the right lung. Entry cost me about 1 lb of left shoulder and the exit was about two ribs forward of the diaphragm. The heart was intact. I'm very glad I watched this video, since it reminded me not to automatically aim exactly where I'd programmed myself to see "the perfect aim point" on the hide, which would've earned me gut damage on my first hunt in 28 years. The animal definitely did not suffer a long death, as it landed in the deep hoof marks it made when impacted. Thanks for great content, Sir.

[@bruceyoung6112]

For most of my hunting experience it just depends on the situations I generally use the double lung shot but have used the high shoulder. But it really depends on the bullet type. So it really comes down to the actual position of the deer and the distance and remaining calm and as my dad always preached to me was to bear down boy.

[@danielsooon8128]

If you are hunting with 223, almost certainly better to go for a lung shot right? Need a bigger caliber for shoulder shot I’d figure?

[@JamesSmullins]

​@@danielsooon8128that's my thinking as well, I use hand loaded speer gold dot 62g bonded soft points. Great for Texas deer and deadly on double lung and heart shots. But I'm not sure it make it through the bone to hit the spine. I do know a few that neck shoot for the spine for fast drops but they're really good shooters.

[@bruceyoung6112]

@danielsooon8128 I have killed deer with a 223, and yes, it's legal in Kentucky, and my late father did also. Shots were under 75 yards, and it worked. Now that said, my normal rifle is a 25/06 with Hornaday Whitetail 115 grain. I agree with your comment. I refrase my statement depends on the caliber and the situation for shot placement.

[@clarenceshuemake3519]

I'm like you on the high shoulder shot,it's lights out every time.

[@SmokeNFermentables]

I agree position matters heavily on where you place a shot. Also ensuring you have the shot as well. I will be trying high shoulder this season on at least 1 deer and see the meat loss and damage difference. I hunt with a 308 so could be interesting.

[@benjaminvandrunen]

Can Confirm, the high Shoulder shot works very well. Prior to this my preferred shots were neck shots or double lung usually avoiding the scapula. Now I just aim for the scapula and have taken 4 Deer with that shot placement or attempt. In all 4 cases the deer went down immediately with no tracking or trailing required. In one case, with my Muzzleloader, using iron sights at 100 yards I did miss about 150mm forward. In this case it turned out to be a neck shot which is also highly effective.

[@Jesco2841]

The shot depends on the bullet construction. IE a Barnes TTSX vs something like a Hornady SST. For the SST, you will grenade in the double lung shot. Where as with a tougher construction type of a bullet like a Barnes or etc, you'll want more resistance than a double lung.

[@JonRangel87]

L take

[@calvinruggles732]

While I certainly agree on larger and or tougher game like elk, I think you're fine with deer. I've killed quite a few with the double lung shot with 165 grain sst's from a .308 with complete pass through. Granted, that's not super fast, and I wouldn't use that in say a 300 magnum

[@Jesco2841]

@@calvinruggles732 Either way, I'd rather have a SST over a TTSX if I was only going for double lung shots on deer. For a high shoulder shot on a big mule deer, I'd prefer something like an accubond or TTSX.. depending on range and cartridge.

[@jamiehurtt3530]

In addition to bullet construction the distance you expect to take deer also greatly depends on shot placement .while ttsx in standard cartriges isnt touted as a long range bullet and they dont expand below about 2100 fps or much past 300 yds say per example 180 grain in 06 Unless Hitting shoulder bone which causes expansion If I'm shooting deer or elk with an 06 much past 300 yds with an 06 om going with a bonded lead core jacketed high bc bullet like the 190 grain ABLR all the way Ttsx are great but at extended ranges you need to hit shoulder to initiate expansion if your bullets velocity is down to say 2100 fps or below whatever distance you're shooting

[@calvinruggles732]

@jamiehurtt3530 again, with standard calibers and deer sized game, it's really not that critical. Magnum calibers/velocities, and elk sized game is where bullet selection and shot placement become critical

[@km6731]

i was taught to aim at that shoulder with the 270 and have put many down on the spot. As i got older, i started experimenting with aiming at vital organs and i have had similar experiences with the heart shots. They run a bit. I think if you have a fast gun with knock down, the shoulder is fine. A smaller caliber, not so much.

[@the.original.throwback]

Shot choice should depend on game type, cartridge, distance, wind, etc. but I agree that the high shoulder shot usually anchors the animal in place which is especially valuable if hunting on public lands with other hunters nearby. I have seen animals tagged by the first hunter to find them whether or not they made the shot so dropping them in their tracks is a big plus.

[@jeffhays1968]

My very first deer was a frontal neck shot in the white patch. Thought I missed it dropped out of sight so fast.All the old guys at camp with 30-30 levers stopped making fun of the kid with that bolt action .308. Still have it.

[@trevorgale1176]

A couple of things, what caliber and bullet type are very important., a lot of people use match ammo for hunting so a heart/lung shot would be the way to go. Also your high shoulder shot is the way to go, but on your diagram I would like to see the impact about three inches lower.

[@waynemensen4252]

3" lower adds much more meat loss.

[@HillCountryPrecision]

Excellent, excellent, excellent video and perfect timing for hunting season. I've become a big fan of the channel in the past few months. Great info as always, Jim!

[@cameronjohnson6838]

Been doing high shoulder for years in South Texas. Not fun tracking in thorns so we like to anchor them

[@carterthiessen2664]

I like shooting for a high heart/low double lung shot. When I hit the deer where I want, I tend to see the top heart valves (aorta?) Destroyed along with both lungs. Gives a reasonable margin of error all sides and is more forgiving on quartering shots. The risk is hitting the leg bones, but I don't hunt with lower caliber rounds. I want my bullet to be capable of going through all the shoulder bones and exiting in case I happen to hit there. I prefer an exit wound if at all possible, and I tend to use heavy for caliber bullets.

[@LDBoone]

Been my approach for 30 plus years. Great margin for error and usually a great blood trail that doesnt go far before recovery. Quick kill.

[@lawrencemartin1113]

Here in the UK, and specifically Scotland, there is a lot of faff going on about using copper and other 'non toxic' ammo on deer, with a lot of politics surrounding the use of and banning of lead bullets. As such, it is being discovered that a high or mid shoulder shot is likely to be more effective with copper bullets. Many estates are now requiring stalkers to use only non toxic ammo and recommend mid and high shoulder shots when the animal presents broad side. Interesting to see how things evolve. Great video.

[@mainenorthwoodshunter3265]

I have my own KZbin hunting channel (Maine North Woods Hunter) in a video of mine called "A Maine Rut Hunt" I finally took my first deer over 200 lbs. The deer jumped onto the road and I had to shoot quickly. The High Shoulder shot is what I chose with my Christisen Arms Messa Long range in 7MM Rem Mag. The video shows the results. Great video and subject, Thank You!

[@kevinroberts9580]

I was one of the eight percent that said definitely high shover to anchor the deer right where it stood. Had a friend who wasn't the best shot but he was decent, And he always shot tradditional area area for killshot. I watched him flinch badly when he fired at a deer and it dropped like a rock. When we got to the deer, he hit it. Perfect high shoulder, I looked at him and said. I know that's not what you were aiming when you flinched. He said No, but it sure dropped him back legs first. He said that was his shot placement from now on. Of course I said...told you so😂

[@Jay-mv7xv]

Wonder what you think about the texas heart shot?

[@Just_Samson]

😂

[@alexandergennaro8596]

Those guys shooting in the crease between the neck and the shoulder, those guys know what its all about. Been teaching it for years its instant lights out and it doesn't matter what caliber you use!

[@sturisa]

Good stuff Jim, I listened to the podcast with John McAdam when he interviewed you, I enjoyed it.

[@chrisj0]

This is a curious video, I've always heard about double lung shot being the best. I feel like a lot of hunters are not precision/competition shooters, they aren't clicking mils based on range finder data to have this precise shot placement (+ wind drift calculations). The common scope sighting advice I see for hunting is getting the max point blank range and then just holding right on that double lung area. Running the ballistics table, sighting the rifle in high at 100 yards and knowing the shot will be in a 6" vital zone out to 275 yard or so. Anything further than 300 yards and you'll need to hold high. I feel like this common technique would require the margin of error for a double lung shot. Also this advice seems specific to deer, I'm assuming that elk hunting wouldn't follow this same strategy, considering they're much tougher animal than deer?

[@plutosforest]

You could sight in high at 100, but most hunters I have met over the years like to sight in dead on at 100 and high at 50. Maybe depends on your landscape.

[@abbeybremner4162]

Here in New Zealand we have lots of ferel goats. My highshulder experiment has been 8 goats- that didnt take one step with the shots. Its almost comical how their legs go stiff and they’re down. Im sold!

[@davethompson1702]

I think its all dependent on the angles of the deer to the shooter and the distance of the shot, most everyone can shoot at 200 yards or closer, but when the deer is 400+ i think its safer to take the double lung vs high shoulder, not everyone can shoot that accurately so know yourself and shoot what your comfortable with

[@joelclark2130]

Sometimes neck and head shots are not out of the question. I know many will disagree but it takes practice. And it is something I have worked on over the years. But my shout of choice is absolutely unequivocally the high shoulder shot. I stumbled on to it by a mistake one day and learned from there. Somehow I missed the distance of the deer and the shot was very high up in the shoulder and it dropped like a rock.

[@timothywilliams2021]

Agreed. My last deer was a neck shot just bellow the head. Taking out the spine drops them in there tracks. If or where you shoot really depends on the situation. Distance angle obstructions movement equipment competence and confidence.

[@robertmajors1737]

Ive been using the high shoulder method for years, and i can unequivocally say that if you like to watch them fall in the scope, its the ticket. I have had some meat damage in the past, but it was mostly when i was still shooting lead bullets. Since I've switched to copper, it's just not much of an issue. Shoot light for caliber bullets and push them as hard as your rifle will allow while maintaining good accuracy. 3000 fps is the floor for me, and theres not a ceiling. As a side note, if you can catch a deer with its head down, the high shoulder shot is even more devastating.

[@Dusdaddy]

Couldn't agree more. I'm shooting 130 grain Barnes in my .308, light and very fast.

[@robertmajors1737]

@Dusdaddy Yup, I shoot that same load in my 308. Fill it up to the neck with Win 748 and I'm getting just over 3100 fps in my 20" R700. Whitetails hate it.

[@transplantyooper]

Great video. I've heart shot numerous whitetail and no longer purposefully take the shot. I once shot the top of the heart off (it literally fell out during gutting) with a muzzleloader and the deer ran almost 200 yards and died mid stride (know this due to snow). High shoulder anchors them every time. Maybe a touch more meat loss than a lung shot, but if there's no snow or I need to anchor them I go high shoulder every time.

[@CivilianTactical]

This was a great video. I need to do a hunt one of these day. I feel like I watch your hunting videos the same way Canadians watch my videos. Lol.

[@yangionet8116]

💀

[@gradyhernandez4699]

Canadians use a 303 british

[@mittim6629]

Head shots only. Either ita a clean miss or clean instant kill

[@gradyhernandez4699]

@@yangionet8116 a British 303

[@novicereloader]

I almost died last December and this year was my first hunt in 28 years of saying, "Maybe next year." You're not getting any younger and your goal is a noble one.

[@StumpkillerCP]

I'll take K10 for the venison, Alex. Deer appears to be angled a bit away, if it was broadside J10. I still have a tag left and I may try a high-shoulder shot just to see. J10 (double lung just below centerline) worked with deer #1this morning. Did not collapse but it was an easy blood trail and very little meat damage. I'm a bowhunter as well and double-lung with bloodtrail is SOP. I hunt for meat so that is a consideration. Shoulders = roasts. Ribs are ground burger or stew meat (or spedies in this region . .. a regional marinated treat).

[@RodNaugler]

I have shot 2 deer so far (1 each year of 2 years hunting). I also took my son out hunting last year and he harvested. We all used the traditional aim point. All three deer ended up with heart shots. His was a perfect broadside, head up, at 60 yards. The hind quarter twitched and the deer fell over. Mine was a perfect broadside, head up, at 90 yards. He mule kicked, walked 20 feet and lay down. The last one was a perfect broadside, head down, at 25 yards. She took off running for 40 yards and piled up. All were shot with the same Savage Axis .308 with Federal 180gr soft points.

[@DuckDodgers7461]

I took 2 whitetail last year with a high shoulder shot. Both went straight down with the same results in your video. Works for me!

[@jonquirk9582]

I think it really depends on the bullet construction,too! With my 350 legend, i anchored a buck with a double lung shot using some winchester deer season xps that have a polymer tip in a hollow point, and those go off like a grenade in the vitals, i wouldn't try to shoot through a dense shoulder bone with something like that though. But I've had no issues dropping deer right in their tracks dead with 350 legend ballistic tips through both lungs

[@johnstruewing1164]

The calmer the deer, the better the chance of it dropping. A spooked deer can run dead unless it’s lung shot

[@jonquirk9582]

​@johnstruewing1164 this year i had an alert buck take an arrow through both lungs, and he still ran 150 yards

[@timsmith5837]

High shoulder for the win every time. Excellent video

[@jacobcrowley457]

Man, this is truly awesome and eye opening information. Thank you for your hard work Jim and your awesome channel! Definitely gonna try that high shoulder shot on some Whitetails this season.

[@jacobcrowley457]

@@danielrouw2593 Good info. Thanks!

[@gcnphilly]

In my prep for hunting season, which is already underway, I came back to this video. It's a really interesting topic. I wonder if a good percentage of those who said they preferred a double lung or heart shot were bow hunters first. I started as a bow hunter and eventually graduated to using a firearm and the notion of a should shot just seemed out of whack for me, but now that I've studied it and become more familiar with my firearm and ballistics, I'll definitely try the high shoulder shot.

[@cjr4497]

There are lots of right answers. You have to take into account distance, angle, cartridge, how much meat you want to loose, and most importantly, your level of ability. If it is a big buck I shoot to drop em. I don't go high shoulder but forward shoulder, E8 in the example. With a 280Rem or 35 Whelen and Barnes TTSX they fold every time. I dropped my biggest buck rack and body wise at 240 yds and 240 pounds ironically with the 280. I hit him at him at about K5 exited about O3. I got the top of the lungs and shocked the spinal cord. Without the energy dump that wouldn't have happened. I lost zero meat. As for meat deer, A7 or K9 in that example. I hate messing up the shoulders on meat deer. My favorite meal from a deer is a rice-n-gravy made by roasting the whole shoulder the oven. I can't have much of that if I destroy them.

[@randymathewson7939]

I always temper this on the circumstances. How far, the angle presented to me, etc.and what gun/caliber combo I'm using. I will 90% of the time go for the traditional double lung. However as u said if u need to anchor it, the shoulder it is. I live in a Midwestern state and besides our various seasons, blackpowder, Reg firearm, handgun, a late season, etc. I also am able to cull several deer a year on "nuisance" tags due to overpopulation. Not to brag but it has given me the opportunity the last few yrs to get experience beyond just shooting a cple deer a year like some folks. I use it as an opportunity to experiment with my handloads and diff calibers, etc. I learned the hard way with small calibers like .223 (where legal) and yes it works. Better break that shoulder. With my 30-06 its DRT, dead right there no matter what. So it just depends. I also think it can ruin to much meat, so I dont use it unless I need to. I like ur channel. Thanks for the info.

[@michaelruebusch2275]

Curious why you shot that doe with a fawn in tow?

[@TheDougroles]

video had a text graphic explaining that fawn was with a different doe

[@maximusrodriguez7748]

Bc he was handing out a real life Bambi story. (Was actually a different doe)

[@bushonry]

Because the fawn will be just fine

[@MrMedicals12]

Thank you for informing me about the high shoulder shot. I have just returned from a SC hunt and shot a nice 8-point buck at 110 yards and it dropped right where I shot him and he did not move an inch.

[@backfire]

Fantastic!!! So glad to hear that.

[@FoxAPT]

I'm a hunter myself. However, I'll be honest I don't admire the comment about the deer being killed as comical. Respect the hunt, respect the animal. I'll probably catch hate, but respect the life you take and what it's giving you.

[@JACKBLACKTOSE]

No hate here, just a voice of support and respect. Folks can obviously do what they want, and can find humor in anything they want to. But, as hunters, I believe we should always show respect to the animals we hunt. Especially as the rhetoric from anti-hunters gets worse.

[@snookmeister55]

Bambi gets sympathy but Prairie Dogs get none. Just saying.

[@jacobianmail]

I don't think he means comical as in funny ha ha. I think he means that the nature of the drop is cartoon like

[@CLAWN76]

Levity is acceptable in hunting.

[@midwestbd7144]

As an ethical hunter I don’t see an issue with that comment. It was comical as in it doesn’t look real. The high shoulder shot almost looks like a fainting goat going down

[@shawnjames3212]

My 12 year old son made a shot on an elk high shoulder on Saturday. It dropped like a rock and didn’t go anywhere. That being said he was aiming for the good old fashion lung shot. (First time hunter and 300 yards out) if he was aiming for the upper shoulder he would have missed. I see merits of both.

[@georgep54]

My only problem with this video is that you have proper guns, sighted and tested. You are pretty good shot and you're training all the time. 98% of your viewers are not and they shouldn't be encouraged to take risky shot that you have 2" margin on elevation with gore consequences if missed. I've seen spine shots gone wrong and hunters emptying 5 additional shots into a kicking and screaming animal and fail to finish it. Lung and heart shot carries a lot less risk and pretty much the same result. I do heart only for the last few years, most of the time they don't even know what happened, they just take a few steps and fall.

[@johntrammell4033]

The no track drt.. back of front leg up just where front shoulder moves and down from back bone small caliber bullet 115 to no more than 130 bullet size is important that all it takes field dress withing five minutes a must if not meat will be a bloody mess u will see the difference when cooking safe hunting be blessed

[@leonnefourie1857]

Well said

[@kurtwilhelm3823]

That was an awesome video on high shoulder shot. I want to try it but have never come across a good enough video explaining exactly where to shoot! Thanks so much!

[@Dumprune]

Right between the glowing eyeballs.

[@batfpv3576]

With a .22 Magnum and a bright light? or do you use a cheapo throw away .22 Glenfield w CCI Stingers😉

[@snookmeister55]

Re, glowing eyeballs, I was raised that way. RIP dear old dad

[@leonnefourie1857]

Risky at best in limited time and dense bush.

[@MaxairEngineering]

What I like a about the high shoulder shot, is that in my “opinion” it gives you the most margin for error in all directions. This is especially important on longer shots and/or windy day shots. My priority when hunting is a clean kill. Secondary to that is minimizing meat loss.

[@IdaHowitzer]

I appreciate your enthusiasm and energy. You have taught a lot of people how to really chase after the variables and know their limits. I really wish you didn’t describe shooting a deer as comical. As a lifetime hunter, there is nothing comical about how an animal dies. #huntquietly

[@rogerramjet7567]

In my humble opinion of over sixty years doing this, the high shoulder is great. Many times I haven’t seen where they went. DOWN. Without even a kick or wiggle 😀👍

[@wyocowboynblue9011]

Disappointed you choose to harvest a doe with fawn at its side, following a winter with large winter kill in the northern rocky states.

[@joshuadunn882]

He did say it was another doe's fawn...

[@wyocowboynblue9011]

@@joshuadunn882 Fair enough. if I missed that I apologize.

[@APpoacher]

I was advised by my PH (guide) in Sth Africa to aim for a spot halfway between the two front legs and 1/3 of the way up the body this is a little forward of the traditional US double lung shot and less likely to end up with a gut shot it seemed to work quite well there. I know the vitals of the African animals seem to be positioned a bit forward of the US deer so this may be part of the reason for that position also. They do tend to use projectiles that expand a bit less than some of the more lightly constructed projectiles guys in the US use on deer so do a bit less damage to meat when going through shoulders.

[@gk5891]

​@APpoacher 1. US Heart Shot 2. European Nerve Plexus Shot (High Shoulder) 3. African Break Shoulder Shot 1. Minimizes meat damage 2. Minimizes animal suffering. 3. Breaks Shoulder eliminating locomotion. There are cultural and economic issues that contributed to the differnences. All are lethal, properly placed. I do find many Americans shoot to far back even on deer. The heart is mostly behind the front leg. Just barely above the elbow with 1/3 leg behind and 2/3 of the leg forward of your verticle stadia is center of heart. It's surprising how many deer anatomy targets get this wrong, although many of the newer targets are getting it right. The problem is you have to shoot through muscle there destroying valuable meat.

[@lgz5953]

30 years ago, I accidentally hit a high shoulder shot, it looked like the deer was electrocuted, at the time there was no internet to find opinions on it. Over the years I take it when I can on deer, elk, caribou, etc. and coupled with the Berger hybrid it is devastating and has never failed. I have found it harder to find on a bear, so I just shoot for the middle. Great video thanks.

[@darrellmorse1894]

The high shoulder shot potentially takes out both shoulder roasts. When you get roughly 60-70lbs of boned out meat from a average deer, wasting some unnecessarily, I just don't see this as a quality shot. Just take the traditional double lung shot and reduce meat loss. It was tough watching the doe kill with a small fawn in tow, just my opinion.

[@Angie201111]

I have learned to use high shoulder shot 10 years ago. It requires an accurate shot not always available. I've taken game on 3 continents that never took a step. My friends are amazed when they drop straight down. Very ethical as well.

[@kirkandrew-xm9ex]

Love your videos. I have to disagree with the high shoulder shot vs lung shot. I am over 65 years old, have killed a bunch of deer, elk and antelope, and not one was not recovered after hitting it in the lungs, just behind the shoulder shot about a third of the way up. This past year my granddaughter shot a spike on the last day of the season, hit it high shoulder, and it dropped at the shot...then it got up and ran up the hill, out of sight. After a day of tracking we never found it, let alone any blood. You are usually spot on in your advise, but the high shoulder shot is a myth at best, and a poor choice. And when it comes to archery shots, double lung is the only shot to take. If you hit them where they live, they die. Keep up the good work-love your videos. But you missed the mark on this one.

[@AlyssaLaney-1234]

Archery?