Could ONDC kill Swiggy and Zomato?

[@jaganpreetsingh1842]

Don't remember when the last time I watched such a well mannered debate

[@backstagewithmillionaires]

We work together, so can't let things get out of hand 😂 but maybe if we continue with this format, things will get more informal and fun. -Caleb

[@premg062]

@@backstagewithmillionaires this was awesome, keep it going guys...really enjoyed it, great points :)

[@rajasekharlakkoju1353]

@@backstagewithmillionaires Yeah great. pls continue this kind of discussion videos.

[@proabhinav]

ONDC will not and cannot replace Zomato or Swiggy until ONDC can develop a process framework that ensures service quality i.e. ability to track, ability to raise and address complaints , Food quality , membership benefits Z- Gold etc etc Z/S have matured processed and while ONDC is too in learning phase, Z/S have an edge and difficult to be replaced. ONDC is a great step bringing balance to the market where, if not for ONDC, Zomato & Swiggy may end up being duopoly and start exploiting market with exorbitant rates .. eg : Like Ola & Uber charge huge rates / surge but no framework to stop them and people end up playing .. hence ONDC a great balancing act ! Ideally , we must have cabs on ONDC to bring balance to cab services and give Ola/Uber run for their money , yet challenges will remain if ONDC can build e2e processes/quality framework to manage service quality!

[@tamanna4697]

I don't agree cabs/autos should be on ONDC, there was an app called namma yatri in bangalore, it was made because Ola Uber were taking too much commissions from the drivers so it gave power to the driver's hands. It was an absolute disaster, drivers were rude to the customers and they increased the fare MID RIDE and then there were payment issues in the app. What I'm trying to say is just like we'll pay more to swiggy zomato for quality and reliability, people will do the same for mobility because of safety and support.

[@proabhinav]

@@tamanna4697 hey , this helps. Remember hearing something like this and again I guess my original point stands firm that we can’t think any see any service be it ONDC or Namma or XYZ replace any existing / established services without having a clear service quality framework .. none will win ! ONDC - Auto suggestion was to bring a balancing act more for the end customers , where they have an option to access cabs at reasonable fare than exorbitant surge prices. I think your point highlights we still need a service framework here too for managing service standards like available in Ola/ Uber !

[@sakshamduhan4796]

This is really amazing. The debate keeps the discussion balanced and there's always one of you to counter the other incase it weighs heavy on one side.

[@bgs5570]

Amazing stuff. Need more debates like this atleast once in a month. Keeing going

[@sagothic1]

Hi Caleb and Prithvi, You should also cover Indian Deep Tech startup sector that has seen a tremendous growth in last 5 years. Previously any DeepTech startups were mostly coming up in the western part of the world even if the founders were Indians. My previous company was founded by an Indian in India but is registered in Singapore for various reasons similar to a lot of other Indian startups. I currently work for a startup incubated in IIT Madras that has developed a "Quantum Secure Communication" technology that is so rare that only a handful of companies in the world have been able to build.

[@krishnachaitanya7435]

This format is fresh & cool. It stands Just like - like a midway between podcast and weekly news 🥳

[@naveensandhu3412]

Really loved this and I'm agree with both of you😊

[@princeranjan_in]

Whenever I see you guys discussing something I get hope and so much positive vibes... ❤ ...

[@barryobrien1890]

Great format. Really like the debate style 😊

[@keshavagarwal1855]

Debate format is really good guys keep it on❤

[@amitkulshrestha2004]

I switched to ondc today as Swiggy is gone mad and asking 2999/- as membership fees for a year. Ondc is the future and lets kick out monopoly .

[@suyashpriyadarshi4297]

Amazing convo or debate. I loved this format. I am with Caleb on this. 🎉ONDC 🚀

[@rishu0532]

interesting format.

[@smasher.]

Reminds me of makeshift project

[@peddireddyvarshith6992]

Truly Enjoyed Caleb! We are loved to see more videos in this format.

[@karthik_kwads]

Interesting debate! I personally don't think ONDC could kill Swiggy and Zomato, yet. ONDC needs to work and improve on lot of things. Food delivery is difficult to keep it profitable, if ONDC continues to gives offers and pays to get users, they won't get profitable and would just die. But on the contrary, at least ONDC could create a competition for Swiggy and Zomato to reduce prices/

[@shailendra1537]

Liked the new format but deep inside wished for more heated debate 😂

[@preetishhs]

If Swiggy or Zomato start a subscription meal service, I'll jump onboard right away! That's a brilliant idea tbh. Hope they actually do it.

[@shaikusman536]

Dear Caleb, Comparing ONDC to UPI is like comapring Apple to Orange.......Zomato,Swiggy AND Amazon, Flipkart are here to Stay for Long Run NOT ONDC......surprise to see the new Kid Loved the New Format......Respect from Bangalore.

[@barryobrien1890]

Totally agree. ONDC was poorly conceived by analysts that gave no thought to customer trust. They assume that somehow the system will self regulate. India is too low margin and too inconsistent for ONDC to work without serious investment and losses for many years to build an ecosystem. Amazon and Flipkart are huge, but they lose crores in India because they are building trust. ONDC with it's low cost low service model will struggle to gain trust. The government is taking a very hands off approach and most of the big players who really understand logistics are staying off this train wreck. This is my opinion.

[@drNobody7]

U guys always bring quality content...cheers🎉

[@SahilBurman]

Difficult for ONDC to compete, true picture will be visible once odnc stop burning money on coupon discount and delivery discount. Probably after the discount ends the difference will be marginal between the platforms, this is where service and value addition by Zomato and swiggy will shine unless ondc finds a way to provide same level of support which these 2 provide

[@divyanshkumar5053]

I think Pincode and Magicpin would be very massive, Probably MagicPin being number 1

[@divyanshkumar5053]

Or Pincode if PhonePe just become too aggressive All in all these two

[@Shoryasince92]

Love this format ❤

[@vedsaga]

I can see but of confusion, people still confused ONDC as competition to Zomato, Swiggi... ONDC is not platform, ONDC is UPI and so just like PhonePay build ontop of UPI , similar in future app ontop of ONDC will be built.... Hope this make sense to people.

[@prajwalprvce]

love this new format

[@preetham4194]

I believe that the Indian government wants transparency when it comes to collecting taxes, so that might be the motive behind launching ONDC. Swiggy and zomato might be evading taxes.

[@mandarinboy]

Very insightful!

[@anuragdani7029]

UPI -> Wallet analogy might not apply for ONDC -> Swiggy/Zomato. The revolution with UPI was bank to bank transfer for end users rather than Bank->Wallet->Wallet->Bank. With ONDC there is no major value add for end users and hence they will stick to the options that ensure best in class service and quality which is very difficult to achieve on ONDC where anyone can list and operate their food business.

[@geekySRM]

this was such a great conversation.

[@abhina6506]

My take on this : ONDC might triumph in the start (for whatever discounted prices it's offering compared to other native food delivery apps) but if swiggy and zomato wish to stay in the competition , they will also lower their commission prices down the lane to stay in the race. Quick context : jio gave free internet when everybody else were charging hundreds for each GB of data , guess what airtel and vodafone and idea did , acquire competitors , accustom to the low prices and stay in the race.

[@abhinavuday1248]

Paytm became somewhat complicated for using the app that is main reason i shifted to google pay and phonepe

[@Shoryasince92]

There are multiple very trusted brands within a 5 km radius which people know personally and would love to order without paying the commissions. In a nut shell ONDC is a boom for those seller’s and consumers who are genuine and worship their work. At the end it’s just that a genuine seller can get over the fear of the e commerce and get online without sharing it’s hard earned profits with these commisucking companies. At the end atleast the commissions will come down. 🙏🏼

[@yasho.]

this format can be banger.

[@yasho.]

i think he misconstrued my comment.

[@indian9632]

I have been using UPI from almost right from the beginning and i still remember paying for fruits, coconuts and curries. It took off right from the beginning. Past successes donot guarantee future success so. Never tried ONDC but i guess it takes a lot of time and resources to become as successful as UPI.

[@barryobrien1890]

UPI is a simple cash replacement that only works in a cash economy. It performs quite poorly outside India as most developed economies run on a credit model with 30 days to pay and recourse if you are sold inferior or counterfeit/damaged/used goods

[@indian9632]

@@barryobrien1890 credit cards don't fly in India bcz we were taught not to buy anything which we couldn't afford. UPI was meant for Indian market It does one thing and does it well. FedNow is similar service for Americans if I'm not wrong. Hope it succeeds

[@barryobrien1890]

@@indian9632 Totally agree, thanks for the reply. Its very difficult to get a credit card in India. My dog literally could get a credit card in the USA. Europe is also really easy for credit cards. The intent of credit cards is not just to borrow money, but it also adds buyer protection, so if what you paid for is not what you expect, you can contest it, and if you can show that the Item purchased was never shipped, broken, used or missing parts, the seller has to address this with you, or the credit card co will block them. This helps build trust in online shopping and associated efficiency and competition. Credit cards are also an excellent source of short term funding for small businesses and individuals. In the USA and Europe your credit rating is all that matters, so with a good rating, access to credit is very easy and instant. Some people struggle with this, but most small business its a life saver, as they get a month to pay for Items they sell. Popular media makes it seem like its a death trap, but for the US system to function and grow like it has, credit has been a huge boost to the economy for a relatively small population. Back in the 1930's, the US was a cash economy with very little access to credit. Most people rented homes and lived on very little, with low paying jobs. After the great depression and WW2, the government moved to get older people out of the work force so young people and returning soldiers could get jobs. They set up social security that basically paid older folks to stay at home (retire). This payment was funded by young people paying in, and to make it work, the government needed a safe way to invest. The stock market crash showed the risk of businesses, so home mortgages were seen as a better bet as everyone will struggle to pay for their house. Thus was born the access for credit to the average man to buy a home by taking out a government backed mortgage. Soon with assets in a home and improving pay (companies could afford to pay more as their goods could be sold easily), people could then use this to secure loans to buy cars, washing machines, TV, education etc. Credit cards are just another tool in this chain. To grow a multi-trillion economy you need a lot of access to credit if you want to do it with domestic population (USA, Europe), or you can focus on export driven growth like China and Japan. India does not seem to have decided what to do. The domestic population with access to credit is small, and there is little focus on exports. I am not sure where the future growth will come from (other than playing with the numbers to make it look good). I like this KZbin channel as it gives an insight into where Indian startups are focused.

[@tamanna4697]

Idk these kinds of debates are fine I like hearing different perspectives but something is missing, I usually feel like I've learnt something from watching your videos some knowledge or insight or some news or whatever, it's missing from this format. 1)Try to add some more data points or 2)discuss some studies or reports along with this or 3)discussion on news you didn't include in weekly news segment but still worth knowing about or 4)discuss about advantages disadvantages on some startup ideas you guys get on Twitter(I think Caleb tweeted something about tweeting your startup ideas) this could be interesting. In conclusion add something more knowledgeable, this just feels like two friends debating, which is cool seeing civilised debates in India lol, but something more.

[@backstagewithmillionaires]

Agreed Tamanna, not enough substance. Even we felt the same. Super valuable feedback, we'll do better with the next iteration 🙂 but glad you liked the debate format, it felt like a fresh, fun new way for us to explore topics without it just being me talking to the camera. -Caleb

[@ashiq1141]

Hi Caleb, in traditional sense, the seller side of a marketplace is managed by the marketplace themselves and the products uploaded by the sellers are hosted on their own server. What will be in case of ONDC?. If i launched a seller app on ondc. And if i allow sellers to list their products on my seller platform, is that product data like discription and images are hosted on my own seller app's server or on the ondc api or something? If i launch an ONDC seller app, did i need to increase its hosting space when more sellers get onboarded on the seller app?. I currently operates a marketplace and wish to move the seller system on ONDC within 2 years.

[@anishk7625]

How are you both related?

[@meghanshagarwal]

My experience with ONDC has not been good. Either the orders got cancelled or the ₹50 discount didn't worked at all

[@aniket385]

Govt cannot effectively run a business . Even Zomato has so many problems that it’s better to go to restaurants nowdays

[@rajat0610]

hi Caleb! amazing video! i did not understand one point - why would Zomato's stock price go down if they declared that they are going on ONDC? shouldn't it go up because they are adapting to new tech?

[@krishnachaitanya7435]

So i think, when they're coming to ONDC - somehow to match low pricing, Zomato might need to compromise on some margins if they want to be stand out from other players in ONDC. So this could potentially hurt their economics as they're already a loss making company - the further down sizing of margins, low unit Economics will hurt their topline revenue and investors might not like it and share prices can fall possibly

[@pdempsey]

Yeah, I think Caleb missed or glossed over the fact that, from my perception, ONDC is actually supposed to be a Amazon/Walmart killer. Food delivery is there, but all-other-things is what it is supposed to address. The delivery/logistics' price and precision has to come close to what Amazon does or it'll not get the required adoption.

[@barryobrien1890]

Amazon and Flipkart have invested millions in India and are still losing money. ONDC is based on a model that Indian small retailers and startups will do a similar job. They do not have such funds and it will be interesting to see if they can raise this kind of money or if the government will make serious investments in ONDC. Trying to force Amazon/Flipkart/Ola/Uber/Zomato...etc will likely not work as they have already invested heavily in their logistics and will not be willing to fund ONDC unless it is seen as a profitable option. Low margins promised by ondc will make this very easy

[@pdempsey]

@@barryobrien1890 ONDC is a little different than what most people think. It's a protocol for online commerce, which is to say it is not a website or a service or a gov't program or even an organization, but it's promoted by an org. So the small retailers et al will get on some company's seller app that is built with ONDC protocols.... and their goods will show up on ALL and ANY buyer apps that are built with the ONDC protocols. How, where and when delivery companies come in is still a mystery to me, and since someone would have to pay them, either buyers or sellers, why would they join??? Much remains to be seen for sure. Blessings on the early adopters, of which I am not one.

[@barryobrien1890]

@@pdempsey yes it's a bit like publishing a website. It can be picked up by any search engine and opened by any browser. It does not mean the content is any good. I think it's erroneous to think it is similar to UPI which is a cash replacement. All cash (except rs2000 notes) is similar and useful. What shows from ONDC is anyone's guess. Will have to wait and see. Not sure if it will provide any real benefit in the long run, but people are enjoying the short term discounts

[@ankushgupta630]

I got ads for both platforms on this video 😂😂😂

[@indian9632]

Its an unusual case. Government is innovating and private players are copycatting 😂

[@samuelmarndi]

Hey u r forgetting that zomato has already launched Magicpin which is ondc native. And more companies can have equal playing field rather than duopoly or monopoly

[@backstagewithmillionaires]

14:19 -Caleb

[@DeepLook]

Hey caleb, if you don't mind sharing some insights, I saw you shared your revenue on twitter for BWM , I would like to ask how did you perform last year? And what was the split of revenue between YPP and Sponsers. Kindly answer this question.

[@dub161]

loved it

[@imranansari6066]

#ondc bro

[@sankarsana]

Swiggy and Zomato should figure out a way to embrace ONDC to grow their business.

[@sajinjohn2859]

More than debate, we learnt more about ondc in a simple way.. superb idea👍💥

[@shivamjaiswal.business]

👌🏽

[@prasadbhadane608]

Shreyas Iyyer joined BwM 🎉😂

[@knowngate]

zomao is antech company 😊 it's not a ecommerce platform.

[@nsn2284]

First learn English. Then we can decide what company is Zomato 😂 no zomao

[@anubhavbansal8922]

3

[@SanjayKumar-fb5xz]

One good thing about the current government is that they keep on tweaking their policy, they don't have a mindset of once done and finished, so I will wait until 2024 and let's see what happens after elections, if the new government arrives to power do they pursue this, let's wait and watch

[@rockersstudio5262]

Are u indian ?

[@backstagewithmillionaires]

Nope! Canadian. Pankaj is India. -Caleb

[@pratyushbehere3580]

They will probably survive but they will have to downsize.

[@sunilittoop3472]

Calum is always baised 😅

[@snehilverma1407]

first comment

[@Lalit-yw2tb]

I don't agree with Caleb. You are being way too optimistic. Past success does not guarantee future success. Here are the reasons why I think ONDC will not make any significant dent in the marketshare of Zomato/Swiggy: 1) Zomato and Swiggy does not only provide restaurant visibility. It's the recommendations based on past orders. It is actually a food discovery platform, not just a food delivery app. And it is very resource and talent heavy to build and run such an app. ONDC cannot compete with that app. UPI is a very simple protocol, you are doing peer 2 peer payments and there is not much tech involved except calling and verifying from respective banks' infra, limited reads and limited writes. There is not much going on other than that. 2) Indian consumers are inherently chindi(miser). They have no brand loyalty, nothing. I don't remember where I read it, but an exec of Swiggy was describing that the Swiggy app was going in the background many times during use by a user. What could be the reason? Turns out, the user was actually switching between apps (Zomato and Swiggy) to check where the cart will be cheaper. It's not only a money problem. It's an attitude problem. You cannot change that. As long as the discount lives, so do the customers. When discounts disappear, so do the customers(as Prithvi mentioned and it was in the news also, ONDC traffic fell by 50% when they stopped giving discounts ). Even if they can afford it, they will not bother to spend money which brings convenience to them. It is ridiculous. I have seen this so many times, I know this is anecdotal but I am pretty sure, if you do a large scale survey, you will find the same thing. I have seen people earning well over 30LPA, penny pinching over 10Rs( even Kunal Shah talks about this). Since ONDC is very new, they don't have anything fleshed out yet and are offerimg discounts to onboard customers. You cannot run a discoverability platform with just 2-4% commission, you can run a simple search platform with that. Currently it is 30-35% cheaper because they are not doing anything, it is a simple search platform and you have to pay delivery fees extra which is going to be charged by weight, so if you are partying and you ordered some 5Kg worth of food. That is going to cost 300+ in just delivery fees alone.

[@backstagewithmillionaires]

Hey Lalit, love your counter-argument here! Excited to see the debate making its way down to the comments section 🙂 hopefully this can be a fun byproduct of the series, as long as folks keep it respectful and professional. -Caleb

[@aniket385]

@@backstagewithmillionaires yes he is right , when I Travel for work or even youngsters who travel to new city or shifted to new city you see the reviews of past user orders . But ultimately you can see reviews and order from new app

[@0x64bit]

India Stack When a person's fingerprint, iris and face are given a unique number, that is Aadhaar, in Aadhaar, esign and ekyc can fill legal forms sitting at home. Then linked with Aadhaar your bank, ration card, pan card, passport, driving license and your business etc. UPI is Unified Payment System BBPS is Unified Bill payment for All Your services Village to City And business can receive payment or subscription through BBPS, Coz All Business is Registered via Centre Authority Now They can get loan in just 5 min Via Account Aggrigator & OCEN This is not collateral based loan this will be cash flow based loan business will boom Now this business needs marketplace ONDC will support them With help of PM Gati Shakti & National Logistic Policy This is just starting for India Stacks Unified Health Interface Unified News Aggrigator Unified Education - Diksha System

[@barryobrien1890]

No accountability. No consistency. Low cost. No service. Have you ever tried to dispute a charge on UPI, and why does the income tax department still insist on pan cards, banks still require KYC for account opening etc, despite aadhaar. ONDC is another poorly conceived attempt based on indistry self regulating with no enforcement. UPI worka sa a cash replacement in a cash economy. It has very little appeal outside india as most developed economies run on a 30 day same as cash - credit system.