Bad Part of Behringer Synthesizers

[@swanofnutella4734]

Old school "patches" were called "polaroids"... now you save a patch by taking a pic with your phone. The inconvenience isn't actually that inconvenient. Right now is a magic time. The past and future are converging. Nothing but gratitude now.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

I agree. We’re spoiled as all Hell

[@Gaz992ts]

@swanofnutella4734 great idea ! recall pics

[@miffebarbez]

So is the knob at 6.2 or 6.4 on the photo? I wouldn't want to go through my phone to set 8 synth patches, just to hear a project from a week ago... very inconvenient... The bass station 1 from 1993 even had presets....

[@tadams1227]

In a Keyboard Magazine interview, Rick Wakemann had several MiniMoogs that were set to a favorite sound so he could play them on the fly during a set instead of dialing in sounds. At one time he owned over 22 minimoogs.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

I could see that being the way. Having ,multi of each synth as a preset for a live show. That would allow major changes in sound without making the people wait for 5 minutes, lol. Most of us are bedroom artist tho

[@tadams1227]

@@toddsmithmusic3172 As am I

[@TheDavidPoole]

​@@tadams122722? Jeezus tittyfucking christ! Imagine hauling that lot around. Yes, i know a lot would be in the studio and maybe 1 or 2 at home, but even so. Makes me laugh that today you could physically put them in the back of a moderately sized car, let alone what you can fit on a laptop. We truly are spoiled these days.

[@soulbassproject]

He also wore a cape 😂

[@thebreathalyzer]

This is why patch memory is an important feature for me. Nearly all plugins have patch memory.

[@Astronomater]

my mistake was buying a behringer. now I have the synth and drum machine bug! :D

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Too funny, hope you have a good day !

[@rokkimason4199]

@@Astronomater welcome to the club!!

[@ToneSherpa]

I have 5 behringer pieces and I love them all. Especially the Pro-800 which CAN save patches.

[@SemtêxČØŴv2.0]

Take a photo of the synth, that’s my Behringer preset system 👍.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

For sure. You can do that in terms of dialing in a jam later. On stage/live could have issues if you have lots of sound changes per sound. Have a good day !

[@SemtêxČØŴv2.0]

@@toddsmithmusic3172 100% I agree with you man. I fall in the first category so ain’t so much of an issue. Also fully agree that 2-3 is more than enough. Ive got the Cat, and have the Kobol coming. The Cat’s ability to just go nuts and give you never heard before sounds is what I love it most for. Would be a total nightmare live 👍.

[@wrmusic8736]

problem is that you probably won't be able to recreate the sound precisely. And I absolutely dislike trying to dial it that specific nuance in the envelope response or resonance/cutoff crossplay - it just takes so much time and sucks out any inspiration. Sometimes you just want to scroll through your patches and see which one you want to use, imagine doing that using photos.

[@SemtêxČØŴv2.0]

@@wrmusic8736 use the synth for the job man, I love presets too. I wouldn’t use a fully analogue synth for that job. I’d use a vst/auv3 or digital synth for repeatability.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

I agree analog has no much small movement that it can be very hard to dail it back in 100% but that's part of analogs magic when you line it up. Hope you both have a good day @@wrmusic8736

[@unclemick-synths]

In the 80s I gigged with a monosynth. We would plan the set list to minimize the patch tweaks between songs. I also played bass guitar so sometimes I could sneak in tweaks while playing. I've a video on my channel discussing patch recording but the TL;DR is I use a notebook. Each handwritten page has a unique shape that is easy to find by flicking through - even if I can't remember the song I used the patch on! Photos need careful filing so I'd only use them temporarily when time is tight in a session. For gigging, presets make life a lot easier but even then some prep is needed on stage to be sure knobs are set right if those controls are going to be waggled during the performance. Having said that, it's usually just the cutoff and resonance knobs.

[@the_glove]

I still use a patch book , and am very fast . I just made sure to use like two bread and butter patches and do all the changes with my hands while playing. I find it more closer to treating the synth like a conventional instrument, where my background is.

[@wrmusic8736]

Lack of patches is the reason I sold "Model D" and bought Uno Synth Pro X (IK needs to unmess their naming) eventually. Like no matter how simple a mono is - redialing a patch is always a chore and I'm too spoiled for the old school "record while you can, forget about it afterwards". Like with "Model D" I had to basically not use the synth when it had a patch I liked too much and was putting a track using it on hold. Just not fun.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

I understand. It’s why I’m gravitate towards the simple analog like TD3. No patching, simple as hell but sounds good.

[@ingostromitzky497]

You should think about the title of the video, for me it has nothing to do with Behringer, the problem is your decision to buy these synths

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

The topic could of been more self reflective. I do believe it's a weak part of the Behringer line right now. I've been trying to do titles that are a little more open and not so defined, if that makes any sense at all. Will consider it and thank you for watching @@ingostromitzky497

[@Gk2003m]

Or… you could take the time and effort to really learn the synth, and therefore be able to replicate the patch later.

[@wrmusic8736]

@@Gk2003m knowing the synth perfectly still requires time to recreate the patch 1:1 so it wouldn't sound different in the same track to other parts using that patch recorded earlier. And just sitting there turning knobs by microscopic fractions after you got the patch right to get the exact sound - is terribly uninspiring.

[@iamyourfuture808]

Could apply to many manufacturers not just Behringer.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Very true my friend. Behringer makes it easier to fall into the trap because the prices tho, lol. Have a good day

[@NickSBailey]

these limitations are what I grew up with so it wouldn't occur to me but I can see how it could be really limiting if you work in that way, where you need to recreate the same patch later and many times, as soon as you digitise the controls to make patches saveable it starts to go into hybrid territory and it's losing some of its analogue nature especially when parameters begin to get steppy. For me the fun is doing it on the fly to make something that can never be recreated, once it's recorded that's it, but this is one element we really need to be able to have recall of sounds too

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Then there is really no bad part of modern Behringer gear to you my friend ! Stay safe

[@ConwayBob]

I began my synthesizer journey in 1982 with a PAiA Proteus monosynth in kit form. It had no presets or patch memory, so that's a base norm for me. I fully appreciate polyphonic synthesizers with presets and patch memory and enjoy some of them enormously, but I am not put off by vintage gear (or modern clones of vintage gear) that lack those features. My first synth also lacked MIDI, so there's that too -- which virtually all of Behringer's synths DO have.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

I think too many in my workflow at once becomes a issue. That’s 100% independent on the individual tho. Thank you for the opinion and hope you have a good day

[@thebreathalyzer]

My lone hardware synth is the original IK Uno Synth. It is mono, works well with breath control, and has patch memory. And you can get them cheap on the used market now that the Pro and Pro X models are out. I need to keep a small footprint, that's a nice thing about Behringer - they offer a lot of smaller devices.

[@peterjones1013]

Old synths were worse, you could never get the same sound twice. I always take a photo of my settings and use these until I have memorised each setting. I also record backing tracks and intend to use these in a live situation.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Too funny. Hope you have a good day

[@Gk2003m]

3:40: yeah, I’d love to have all the monosynths. But I will limit myself. I currently have the Model D. The only thing I would add is one of the semi-modular offerings. Proton is paraphonic which is compelling… but Neutron puts slew into the patch panel, and that has uses.

[@InkyDaCaT]

Great video! Yep monosynths Id say 3 is enough, including td3, then a gritty bass n a clean bass.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Agreed! I love TD because it's so simple but sounds good. No patching needed, small amount of control but still sounds good.

[@TheGhostchaser8]

My problem with Behringer is that I can’t decide which to get first. The whole electronic music scene was started with mono synths that had no patch saving. Then digital came out and people unloaded all of their analog stuff. I personally dumped all of my old synths. Now, analog is back, and if I had my old stuff now, I could sell it all and pay off my mortgage. Seriously, I unloaded an original ARP 2500 cabinet with a sequencer for a few hunkered bucks. Behringer allows every day people to have decent quality stuff for a very affordable price.

[@kbsjudgmentroom6154]

I use an old school rack-mounted sampler when I'm messing around looking for sounds I find something I like I can sample it and can even convert the file to stereo( it's not the best cereal but it still works) Another thing that I will do is I will run two lines into my mixer that way I'm recording the synthesizer with two channels and when I go to edit the sounds I can use panning to get that stereo image

[@Empirism]

Interesting point... while many synths have saving capabilities... Sometimes its good, there is not. That "force" you to "experiment" sounds to current piece every time, that will sometimes cause good results. If you always go for the easiest preset or save pick, theres rarely nothing new come out... so... but I understand the point tho :)

[@djkanyon]

True! I wish Behringer really improved in saving\patches department. Usually it's a pain to save a patch even if the synth have this option. I just make pics on my phone but i got tons of them by now... Cmon Uli's team, hire somebody to do that.

[@djjuno106]

When I first started buying synths back in the early 80s if it couldn’t do presets it came with a book with templates you drew the parameters on so that’s how you created patches. A more expensive way back then was Polaroids but downside was you didn’t know if your photo was good until it was developed. Now days it’s easier just take a photo on your phone ,or print some pictures of the front plate and just mark the position of your tweaks🎉

[@MJanovicable]

A reasonable analysis, and it is a personal issue. I've noticed some of the young folks taking digital pictures of the setting for each project, which is probably the easiest route towards documenting/recording your synth voice settings, including modulars. My own preference is that you cannot have too many synths--oscillators--especially mono synths since as I understand it they're the only true form of synthesis. Once you go into polyphonic--not all times--but most of the time, it's not classic subtractive analog synthesis. I doubt that applies to digital synthesis.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

That can definitely work at home. On stage and having drastically changing sounds between sounds would be a headache. Most of us are bedroom artist so really , it’s a minor issue. Something you should consider when buying into multiple Behringer pieces and is 100% based on the individual

[@lundsweden]

Sampling is a way to save stuff for later- you also end up with polyphony too! I use Samplerobot, which is an easy autosampler but the MPCs also autosample.

[@mungewell]

Multi-sampling doesn't fully capture a sound, but perhaps gets you a reference to go back to...

[@mungewell]

MPC Beats (free desktop DAW) also includes the auto sample. 'convert with Moss' is a free app to convert between formats.

[@lundsweden]

Well, maybe not 100% but pretty close.

[@urbannpa]

People have made booklets or sheets of their knob setups. How hard can it be to make refence templates?.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Not hard. Takes time.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

I guess that can depend on the complexity of your patches.

[@bradenwilson]

I had pictured using them in the studio and then sampling the patches onto my workhorse keyboard (currently a korg triton) I wouldn’t want to have to set up all that modular gear on a gig )

[@GravelVoice30]

To me, the biggest problem with Behringer is announcing new products ages before they're ready to release them. A few months isn't so bad, but some items have taken years. That's kinda crazy. As for the no memory stuff, I cut my synth teeth on 70s mono synths with no program saving capability. After a few years I became adept at dialing in a particular sound I wanted from memory. It was never exactly the same, but it was close enough for the gig. Then, when poly synths with memory became a thing, for a long time I thought that I could never live without being able to save my patches. Now, I've come full circle. I realized that whether you're a keyboard player, guitarist, horn player, etc., no two performances will ever be the same. Coupling that with creating a patch from memory, I feel, tends to breath new life into a project or performance. JMHO.

[@urbannpa]

I understand what your saying about the release date...I'm still waiting on the Model 15.

[@rokkimason4199]

@@GravelVoice30 yup. Everybody in the eighties used presets and a lot of the music was cookie cutter. Yes the music was great,but after a while it all started sounding the same. Homogeneous is good,but Mad scientists are a different breed! I live in the latter world!

[@Aetila]

So true...I bought the Bodyssey and had a great analogue sound...but missed the patch saving (not that the original had it)...so it had to go. That's why the Pro 800 is such a perfect hit...but I already bought a Minilogue XD.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Glad you enjoy the 800 !!!!

[@TheHorseValse]

I love those limitations. I also use Session Recall for my patches. 👍🙂

[@digitaldiezel5870]

Here is the thing about BEHRINGER…I already have all the synths I NEED, BEHRINGER is going to help me afford all the synths I WANT!!! 🤗🤗🤗🤗

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Facts 😂😂😅

[@matsewunderlich]

I use a Model D and TD-3 in my Setup together with my Vintage Digital Synthesizers. The Behringer Machines are good Workhorses no problems with the two cheap Analog Synthesizers.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Both those are solid sounding and pretty simple in build. I love that combo 👌👌

[@stevecoscia]

If you could only keep one of your Behringer mono-synths, which one would you hold onto? The Neutron, The Model D, The Pro 1, The CAT? Which one would you save?

[@fredrichl]

One easy fix would be to record the behringer synths and what you do to them as a audio track, and run that live, and just have 1-2 that you play with/solo with?

[@johnrichardson3297]

Todd Smith Music: Would you sell Behringer Bloat for Hydrasynth; Korg Arp 2600 Mini; Wavestate I like the Behringer Memory but not at the expense of Moog (Still I have an ode to Matriarch/Gmother) I find the sequencer/trig/gate can be as powerful as the sum of synths, take a look at the Cirklon... I still wish I had a Game Boy. Need/Wants -- Korg Wavestate, seq64; Perkons; Polyend Tracker; OXI one; Xone DB4 Wants UNO Super 6 desktop; GS e7, 3rd Wave; Malevolent; Semi-Modular; Elektron Syntakt; Roland Jupiter Xi. Is there a go to genre of EDM that you devote: EBM/Synthwave/Goa/(Psy?) I want to know since I am a huge purveyor of EDM consump. Thanks for hearing me grown, I applaud you for Producing Music, you are miles ahead.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Not sure I’m selling yet. Maybe the crave because it feels kinda redundant with the larger mono synths. I’m not sure I need another larger keyboard so if I did go the hydra road it would be module/desktop. A go to for EDM and Goa ? Maybe Virus ? A older Roland workstation could be a good option too.

[@johnrichardson3297]

@@toddsmithmusic3172 I like your response, but what spectrum of EDM do you source your creative juices into.. that you gravitate towards. My EDM library is quite extensive, but that is also a result of my creative aspirations thwarted by extracurricular posturing of education.

[@klstay]

Trying to stay objective about matching what you want to accomplish with gear choices can be difficult; especially with all the marketing/demos making everything look like, "if only I add that then the inspiration floodgates will open." If one mostly uses a DAW for one track at a time composition (especially if you comp the tracks a lot) then despite hardware being "sexy" VSTs and a good controller keyboard could be a better path. If live to 2 track is your thing then kit fitting your sound creation/exploration style + mixer seems likely.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Not sure if I’d consider synths sexy but understand what you mean. I feel they are just more interesting to interact with and then you have the section of synth heads who work on a office on a PC all day. Which makes sense they would enjoy a “dawless” setup. Thank you for the opinion and have a good day.

[@TonyThomas10000]

Master sampling your synths and creating interesting loops.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

That’s not my workflow. I’ll just dial in and use what I need for times I need it.

[@TonyThomas10000]

@@toddsmithmusic3172 Sounds like you would better off using software than hardware, then.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Bro. Plenty of hardware gear has saving capabilities 🤣🤣😂😂. I’ve been making albums fine on hardware and I’ll work how I want too. You do you.

[@TonyThomas10000]

@ If you enjoy the workflow! I like the instant recall capabilities of software, automation control capabilities, the lack of having to print everything, and sync issues. Like you said, you do you! But it seems that you made some unfortunate hardware choices. (BTW, I have been doing this since the 80s. I had a room full of hardware synths. I also wrote for Electronic Musician, Mix, Recording, Roland Users Group and other mags).

[@Sonikbytes]

I mostly play with poly synths with memory and while I have mono synths I prefer the others

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Nice ! I do like mono synths but just went a little to deep 😂😂

[@ferenclucas2842]

The whole point is old school thats thd way vintage gear was. That is a great aspect of the gear

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

It’s a part of the gear you need to consider too. How many pieces you want in that direction will be different for each player

[@ichigen511]

I use a DAW for the visual sequencer and for absolutely nothing else. All the sound I sample are from hardward synths and drum machines. It's very simple. Sample a sound and sequence it visually in a DAW. Don't have any need to recall since I could care lessa bout a live set. I DJ live but I mix MY tracks. I'm confused about why you think one can't simply record the set into a track and then it lives forever. What are you on exactly? I'm a bit confused. I THINK what frustrates you is the ability to play something LIVE more than once. For that I agree. That's why you should make tracks so you can play them again forever and ever. Not sure what's holding you up. I buy lots of Behringer gear as a 'fuck you' to the rediculously expensive brand name bullshit. People think they can only afford a DAW with software synths and plugins. Wrong. Behringer is here for you.

[@rokkimason4199]

The old school Minimoog Model D didnt have " recall" or " presets" . This hardware synth is the king of Mono synths. Check the music world and many synth players worldwide. I will put my Mini up against any in the world. Thats the beauty of " non- recall preset cookie cutter synths! Every time you fire it up,you can roll a " unique sound, without sounding like every other tom,dick,and harry out there!

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Lol, never said it was bad 😂😂. The SE02 from Roland nailed the sound and does have presets tho.

[@rokkimason4199]

@@toddsmithmusic3172 that's cool! Presets are totally cool,but I love the random craziness of having a different sound pop up every time I turn my synth on. Everything is valid in the world of synths! I agree with you! I love synthesis!!

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

@@rokkimason4199 I like all the gear I own Fromm Behringer. Have a good weekend

[@rokkimason4199]

@@toddsmithmusic3172 you too. Have a great weekend. You inspired me to get into the lab this weekend and make some noise! Thank You!!

[@Heathcliff_hensel]

Patch recall would increase the prices because you need more engineering and components to do that.

[@smartti1970]

Deep Mind is still their flag ship if you like Roland style of filter

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

Hope you have a good day !

[@smartti1970]

Thanks very much Todd ... you too

[@InkyDaCaT]

Do like the look of the fx thingy

[@FreqBand]

Come on, really ? Of all the things to complain about Behringer gear, your personal purchasing mistakes should not be one of them. Those were YOUR mistakes because of your lack of research. So, after buying one Behringer mono synth with no patch memory....you bought even more, then you blame Behringer ?

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

I’m not blaming Behringer. I’m simply stating that’s one of the major parts of their gear you need to consider when buying their current line of gear. I’m not sure this makes you so mad 😅😅😅😂 Maybe go outside and , Breathe ? 😄😄

[@FreqBand]

Well, you are blaming Behringer "gear", You say this multiple times.....it's even in your title. Fact is, Behringer gear is cheap chinese clones of established classic synths. So when you say "Behringer gear can't save your settings" or "most Behringers are mono"... you are describing the functions of the other classic gear, not Behringer (because they are copies). Perhaps this is part of what pisses me off about Behringer....their products are so inexpensive that people buy them and treat them as disposable toys, and not well-crafted musical instruments.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

@@FreqBand My god you’re still upset over this , lol. I never blamed Behringer. I’m simply pointing out a mistake I made and something to think about when purchasing Behringer gear. The fact you’re still angry over this topic is kinda crazy. Relax, enjoy life. I love Behringer and all the pieces I from them. You need to smoke a bong or something.

[@darkmaer]

I think it boils down to how lazy are you or not. Because there’s a lot of great engineers because they documented everything they did in the studio that you can pull up all the settings and get the sound of the band that they recorded like their amp settings and stuff. As long as you document your stuff properly, it shouldn’t be too big of an issue. You might not ever get the exact sound, but it’ll be probably enough so write it down in the journal and even take pictures if you have to.

[@toddsmithmusic3172]

I don’t think it has anything to do with being “lazy”. People work in different ways and have different needs