Baffling design choices - ZRACE brake calipers from AliExpress

[@jimbrittain402]

Glad you figured out why the fluid wouldn't flow in; that would have made me crazy. As ever, you're the guy, Luke. 🥖🥖

[@TraceVelo]

Thanks Jim!!!

[@WhiteMFingRabbit]

I would just like to point out that you have a unique thirst for finding, investigating and solving issues with bike components that most "pro mechanics / assembly operatives" do not have or wish to use these days! The enthusiasm is contagious! There is still hope! 🥖

[@TraceVelo]

Thanks so much!!! Yeah I genuinely LOVE pulling stuff like this apart, and seeing where they have cut corners 😁

[@mjokffsgfjs]

Most would be like, yeah, cheap china stuff, it's like this.

[@neutronpcxt372]

TBF, it's because most mechanics these days aren't enthusiasts living on the bleeding edge of non mainstream advancements. I mean, remember that there are many bike shops in the world recommending higher end Mucoff lubes, even though they're complete trash and somehow worse than their lower end stuff :P

[@WhiteMFingRabbit]

@@neutronpcxt372 Worked side by side with over 50 mechanics in the last 10 years, most won't even service a rear derailleur, build a wheel or know how to set up a Shimano front derailleur (mechanical), just an overwhelming for me that problem solving, prevention and TLC are not part of it any more, only Selling & Installing new components half blind...but hey, there is still some passionate people out there, I'm just not that lucky to find them :)

[@neutronpcxt372]

@@WhiteMFingRabbit You are correct, and it's gotten even worse with the ebike "revolution". Lucky for me, I have like 4 shops in my area which have been extremely competent, and 2 which are god tier and can basically do anything to any bike and any ebike.

[@babyrabies]

This is like Sesame street for cycling adults. Every episode im learning something new.

[@sotirbg]

Not sure how a nylon washer would fare with respect to heat build up, but you can use a copper washer - they can be found in many different diameters and thicknesses. Copper is softer than aluminum, so it shouldn't damage the caliper - copper washers are widely used in the automotive industry as crush seals between aluminum parts. As always, awesome video and I'm so glad that you produce videos more frequently now. 🥖 🥖 🥖

[@rebisco2002]

Aluminum is Softer Than Copper...

[@sotirbg]

@@rebisco2002 That's true. I stand corrected

[@sutherlandrb32]

​@@rebisco2002so would an aluminum washer be a better candidate?

[@valmorell]

Sorry Luke, thread derail, but I noticed in one of your other build videos with hydraulic brakes that you cut the hose to length, installed the clamping nut, spike and olive, then assembled it into the lever. This is really tricky as the chance of cross threading the clamping bolt is high and aligning it to screw in is difficult. Try this: cut the hose to length, install the spike, then install the clamping bolt loosely into the lever with the new olive inside. Then push the hose in and tighten the clamping bolt. Jobs a good'n.

[@joshuaboyle8003]

5 out 5 🥖 as always. The hose issue had me yelling at the screen, "why did they design it like that" I would never have figured it out, I think, so chapeau to you sir.

[@mengmao5033]

I'm guessing that the monoblock design limited their options for easily drilling the routing for that channel to the 2nd piston. Either they do it this way for cheap, or they spend a lot more time machining a better path off the end, or they give up on monoblock.

[@alexjohnstonjohnston5374]

Guaranteed quality content as always - smashing it mate 🥖

[@echtogammut]

A couple options: 1)Feibang sells replacement pistons that might work. 2) I'm not sure about using nylon washers as they have a low crush load and may fracture, I'd look at ceramic (mica) washers or copper.

[@marcbryant8482]

Just want to say your technical knowledge and ability to review parts has really come along, whilst keeping the casual jovial delivery style. Well done on going up a gear (pun intended) and think you are showing the decision to do this full time is sound. Also feel you have a good groove in doing the budget line of bike stuff which in this increasing insanity of mainstream bike prices is very much needed. Cheers

[@gg4760-k5n]

generally speaking, if the hose compression nut is the se thread pitch and diameter, you can simply screw any line into a lever or caliper. The oliv being brass it will conform and seal once tightened properly. Basically you could have simply unsrew the LTwoo caliper and bolt the existing hose into the zrace caliper.

[@TheDoctorhuw]

Lived in Brill for the first 14 years of my life. loved going down those hills but hated going up! ended up living in Derbyshire so it was good training for the dales! now live in Newcastle and compared to both Brill and Derbyshire, it dead flat! good job as I’m now in my 60's and hills are harder than ever! Good video, as they always are. Thank you.

[@michaelmechex]

You make some of the best reviews out there. I love how every time you find a problem, you dig deeper to find the source and figure out a solution. Very few people do that these days. 🥖🥖🥖

[@elias.f.]

I'd love a channel like yours for mountainbiking. Awesome vid!

[@Criscross292]

Ahhh yes… the old ‘hidden washer’. What a thoughtful gift 😉

[@william3k]

Love your videos Luke. Easily one of my favourite cycling KZbinrs. You seem the most relatable, informative and all round genuine guy. Have some baguettes 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@christianhall3034]

I'm sure you can find a small aluminium shim the right thickness to replace the washer. Cut up pieces of cassette spacers could work to provide enough of a stand-off. 👌

[@chrisbowman2030]

Great videos as always! I would definitely replace the steel washer with nylon ones or even better Teflon. Best regards from a German viewer!

[@kousueki7024]

yes.. teflon can withstand more heat

[@ZizBauer]

Love you Trace keep up the good work!

[@TraceVelo]

MY MAN 👊😎

[@adam300tdi90]

His name as always is Luke

[@daiphillips7171]

Great video Luke, we're pretty new to the channel but really enjoy your content. I was wondering if you'd considered getting those brake pads analysed by a local asbestos company? As although the "wonder material" has been completely banned in the UK since 1999, China still use it. Might be worth getting them checked incase your breathing in anything nasty. Although it will make them excellent at dealing with heat of course 😅. Keep up the good work 👍🏻🥖🥖

[@sutherlandrb32]

Oh boy! This comment sent me down a rabbit hole! It looks like the Internet has not gotten a distinct yes or no on this topic. I bought a 10 year supply of Chinese ice tech style brake pads from a company called ztto. They make very nice stuff and everything I have gotten from them performs well. Now I am all worried about potential for asbestos to be in the pad compound, however, I am thinking any hazard would be low because I'm only ever using brakes outside and the amount of dust at any given time is so minimal. Still though this comment really made me think!

[@dilvastak7351]

thanks for the review. I tried to buy calipers for postmount from them - they could not send it in 2 weeks, which saved me from this wonderful quality.

[@SteveKimbo]

🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖 top video again Luke, sadly I won't be changing my Hopes just yet. I'm actually off the the garage right now to see if Hope just leave a washer floating around behind the piston...😂 Love your determination to solve these problems you encounter and I love seeing stuff in bits!

[@fentuz]

Can you fit a small allen key in the bleed port all the way down to the olive/hose port? If so, do so, set the hose in place and then take the key out and bleed the system

[@xenonzer]

Really loves your expression during the "savages" bit. Keep the good work, i really love your content. Also mandatory 🥖🥖🥖

[@boyacki]

the week has been saved!!! Kudos to the homework done on the patent , these brand should be paying you for these product reviews! savages that ride mountain bikes :D:D:D:D:D the attention to detail is brilliant with the wear on the anodised area. the explanation is clear and unbbbbbbbiased, thats why we love your work! love watching the passion and the funnies, the shout out shows support to the local community, does youtube content get better? 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@mrpercussive]

Given that both zrace and ltwoo calipers are 22mm pistons, do you think they'd be interchangeable?

[@andreromitelli]

Luke my dude, great video. Regarding the metal washer, I believe the nylon would avoid corroding the aluminium but will probably give a squishy feeling, or affect baguette efficiency. Anyhow, stay safe 🥖

[@carlosvf11]

So, beside from the weight benefits, is there any braking performance improvement?? Or the L-Twoo calipers were already quite good?

[@cthulpiss]

this green colour looks fantastic!

[@zeshanrawn6299]

Would have been cheaper, quicker and lighter to ride without your smartphone; but more entertaining? Absolutely not! You're the reason I'm a competent home mechanic, just don't let velorexia get the better of you Luke 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@njshift]

The washer is to align the piston, keeping the pad centered. There was probably a machining issue with the caliper body or with the piston depth and this was just an easy fix.

[@reinholdachleitner2069]

Well done on fixing the olive fitting installation,they seem like good brake calipers,hope they fix the production fault.

[@stefanohbellote9948]

I have a bar+stem combo from OG-Evkin, about 15.000km on it and still good as day 1, I'd say to try getting a set from them especially to match the frame on the bike! :) Only issue was the internal routing of the bar, my mechanic said he just couldn't make the bends and ended up routing it outside (it's just the bar and the bike is not full internal, so all good..)

[@9118693223]

you are a master in solving the problems of these ali express components. but not everyone is like you ...

[@binitbob]

Washer behind the piston classic fudge especially as the mating gave was flush. The washer and galvanic corrosion would be more of a concern rather than the loss of anodisation on the monoblock of the caliper. Extra weight but for something that light is it really a problem? The hose length into the caliper is a handy thing to know thank you. 😊 . Fair play you found it though. 🥖🥖🥖

[@robprice7242]

Nice bit of hands on investigation. Always a pleasure to watch 🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@SubversionGarage]

Would ceramic pistons from another manufacturer fit?

[@thefrontrangermtb5308]

🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖 Fantastic. As said by others, the extra mile you put in here will save people's minds from blowing up!!!

[@bruuhhhh]

Absolutely loving the more frequent content 🥖🥖

[@matttiggerward6147]

Great vid! That washer is very strange. How thick is the rear face of the piston? Could you cut a shallow groove across the piston to allow oil flow and break the potential suction effect? Would save you maybe 5g 😂 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@n0b0dy07]

Bro, I got a similar model from Liipro and I just realized that when I trigger the brake, the caliper opens a little bit due the lack of structure, so the brake will never completely work properly, also the rotors will be damaged due the pads not be in the proper contact, so be sure that when you press the levar the caliper don't move in the internal side of aluminum block.

[@TimJapan]

Nylon washers is a good idea but maybe the aluminium will skuff them up into the oil so i think it might help to get something with a wider diameter that wont be able to move about so much.

[@Hysterically-Inaccurate]

You could glue the washer to the back of the piston, stop it jiggling around. 🥖 🥖 🥖

[@Technotranceism]

Looking stylish in the Siroko gear Luke 👍👍

[@TraceVelo]

Thanks Brad!!! Have some official Trace Velo baguettes on the house 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@glennoc8585]

I wonder whether the zrace has copied the hope caliper to the point that ideally you should use the hope type olive, and nut assembly as its quite unique. I have hope RX4s on a bike and the fitting is unique. I'd need to have a close peek at the zrace.

[@joystation1]

Cycling kit sizing is so hit and miss. It would be so useful if you could say what size you are (chest, waist and height in cms) and what size jersey and shorts you wear. I'd love to get some Siroko kit but won't until I know how their sizing is as I don't want the faff of sending stuff back. Great work on the calliper issue. Some people have mentioned galvanic corrosion between the steel washer and ally piston, but would you get GC with the two parts being bathed in hydraulic oli ?

[@Peregrino.51]

Hey Luke, when you described what to do before sticking the olive-d line in, what did it look like before you stuck it in? That part gets cut off in your demonstration. (Baguette)

[@Peregrino.51]

Ah nevermind, I think I figured out what you meant! :D Got these as 4 piston for a mountain bike set up, but totally happy with my current set...

[@kritan84]

Im faaar from the person that would go through what you do, and even if you do it for me, I still wont touch it with a long stick. BUT I love your videos and look forward to them every week.

[@davidkirkby5218]

I got my 1st piece of siroko clothing, bib shorts very impressed..nice bit of discount too..🥖 do think it would be possible to do a comparison on brakes , different discs and pads , so many out there ..what’s gives the best performance for your money.. Cheers Dave

[@paulstuart9465]

You could have careful cut part way through the olive and then used a screwdriver to twist and snap it off. I've done it many times on my Ultegra. Ultegra hose isn't cheap.

[@SimpleShoes1]

Love how deep you can dive just to review things

[@daviddjerassi]

Why do you run such wide drops Luke ?.narrow are more aero and lighter love your videos .

[@charliecook6909]

Great video as always , those calipers are pretty tasty 👌 you must live pretty close to me , would be cool to see you riding around and see the bike builds in person 👌🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@AlanJames]

Have you tried the Shimano hydraulic calipers with l-twoo levers ? When I upgrade my 105 bike to erx I'd like to use my existing calipers if compatible.

[@abedfo88]

I run the ltwoo x1 hydraulics with shimano slx callipers on my cx bike. They work really really well. Can't see why the road callipers would be different.

[@AlanJames]

@@abedfo88 thanks, that's reassuring

[@MantelMan97]

Hi Luke, I love your videos. Quick question, how did you like the Sensa Giulia EVO you used in Lazarete? I’m considering getting one. Big thanks! 🥖🥖🥖

[@LubraTv]

Test it without the washer, and let's us know if it had any loss of performance. Great video 🥖🥖🥖🥐🍞

[@cornelhughes6763]

Have my issues with Zrace and their quality control. Have had their mechanical disc brakes and their crankset and both had issues. Found the disc brakes with no documentation. Even when you used their stated torque settings in time the screw hole stripped. You had to constantllt asjust the cable as the pad wore. The pad wore quickly and since I needed to replace the back calliper, it just made sence to buy new callipers. I went with ONIRII Hydraulic Disc Gravel Road Bike Brake and have no regrets. Do not have to contsantly adjust the brake cable. Their cranks, had an initial problem where the crank shalf was not done to spec and was too short. The seller replaced it to his credit. Now I see this issue with the washer as further evidence. I just might get the fully hydralic disc brakes but would give one of Zrace's chinese competitors a first look.

[@calcifercrimsonmadness9723]

A silicon o-ring maybe or put a nylon washer is a must as it won't damage the metal

[@stephencooper7383]

Hi Luke, loving your work. What brake bleed kit do you use ? Thanks Stephen

[@pumpkin4alchemist666]

Hi, may I know what kind of keys to open the cap screw to open piston? I had the problem with the same kind on brakes with different brand. Thx

[@TenSapphires]

Great video, as always you're Luke 😊I wonder if the Hope RX4 is more similar to this brakes 🥖🥖🥖

[@e_n1984]

Great content as always mr.luke am considering L-Twoo r9 group set , I wonder if it works with shimano 105 rear and front driller? and dose the brake calipers come with it any good? Thanks

[@michaelmechex]

yeah, the 11 speed L-twoo will work with 105 7000 derraileurs. Their brake calipers are fine, just need to use annoying adapters (they come included tho)

[@benmillns8976]

I was actually thinking of using the 4 piston version on my MTB... Because shiny. Little disappointing to hear of the pistons leaking, so I'll stick with SLX for now.

[@mr_musette]

Very helpful having already bought them and about to install. Cheers. 🥖

[@maddox0110]

I would put the piston in the lathe, and step it down a tad, to have an "oil-surface". 0.2mm is more than enough

[@mtbtomo]

And if you were buying the ltwoo groupset from scratch, would you go for the zrace caliper version or the standard ltwoo caliper version?

[@mtbtomo]

How do you get on with bleeding calipers that don't have a proper bleed nipple or SRAM style "bleeding edge"? I always find it very messy getting the screw back in the port whilst ensuring no air enters the system

[@mwp6662]

this is an amazing video. thanks for your hard work!

[@elcothelosen3621]

the thread on the hydraulic cable caliper mount screw looks way different then the "normal" cable end on the splitscreen bit... this body looks like it has been made on a 3d milling machine or with water pressure🤔 great tech guys!!🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥐🥐🥐🥐🥐🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷🍷and any good bagetté needs a good wine people"😂

[@russellbaker4256]

Not sure if that was an advert for rim brakes or 2nd hand Shimano? My favourite Aliexpress beta tester

[@Froxdj]

got me some Og-evkin stuff, got the steam and handlebars for my new build :)

[@chriscross5689]

Hi Luke, have you done a video on saddles? I'm looking into the 3d printed ones on Ali. Just wanted your take on them please?

[@rosomak8244]

This video is the reason why I use with pity at all those recent newbies which by those super expensive overcomplicated hydraulic disc brake dead weight cra[ supposedly solving problems I never noticed during decades of riding road bikes even at time when they where not fancy.

[@jasonjaeger7383]

Top tire quality investigative video! I love this type of content

[@ilyaizmozherov2239]

about the washer - it looks like it's better to replace pistons or make some shanels fot oil on the pistons to prevent siking. Like on sram ones

[@stephenhudson3496]

Is your maintenance stand from Ali Express is it good?

[@Lazy_Jay_Racing]

Great job... You're testing, investigating and solving so we don't have to 😂👍 keep up the great work Luke 😊👏👏👏🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@carltonpowers2342]

Learned how to build a bike watching your videos. Thank you 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@christophergidney]

The insert (barb), olive and hose should be flush with no hose sticking out the end. When installing the barb, the hose bulges somewhat and should hold the olive in place. Then when fastening the hose nut with the assembly gently butted against the shoulder within the caliper, all should become crimped correctly. SRAM introduced threaded barbs and olives to ensure correct assembly, see SRAM hose fitting kit!

[@jamble7k]

halfords sell zrace brakes under the "clarks" brand, they look to be heavily inspried by hope calipers and trickstuff maxima levers Clarks CRS C4 aka Zrace M1 X2/X4

[@slickfast]

3D printed shims would work a treat, and also let you tailor the shape! BAGUETTES FOREVER

[@LawrenceSeetoh]

🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖 for the Baguette King, did you ever get around to testing and reviewing the JuinTech brakes ? I thought you had a pair to test a while ago

[@nicoblier6624]

Especially now that the 6 pistons are out.

[@alastairstedman7840]

Replace the washer with a rubber or nylon one. Any chance of replacing the pistons with a ceramic option?🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@kelvindavison3314]

Interesting thoughts around the washer - nylon is a good choice for preventing metal particulates, though it will compress more than a steel one (shouldn't be a problem as you only need a small gap) and it needs to be compatible with the oil - DOT 4, the older oil that used to be common was pretty nasty on plastics, I'm not sure what mineral oil would do to it. Might be fine, might start to dissolve it slowly. Just some thoughts! Great video as ever but I do miss the comedy intros 😢 Have a bonus duck. 🥖🦆🥖

[@mwp6662]

like a groupset detective !

[@apagunaberlari2929]

As always awesome and very informative content. Watching your content its like you preparing to watch movie at your house you make food, drinks and make yourself comfy 🥖🥖🥖🥖🥖

[@mohdhelme6180]

Thank alot luke..

[@arose62]

I don't know why they have to have hydraulic hoses between the lever and the actuator. Surely they could have a force sensor in the lever, communicating wirelessly with a hydraulic pump on the caliper, powered by solar power paint on the frame, or woven into the lycra…

[@DG-tf9rp]

Looks like the washer is used to keep the piston from being pushed into the caliper to far when bleeding.

[@sebastianm2381]

I know you did not find it to overheat easily. Still, I wonder if an Alu piston is a good design choice in a caliper that has very little mass to dissipate heat to begin with.

[@nicoblier6624]

Would buy a Siroko jersey in the Trace Velo colours, make it happen! 🥖🥖

[@Emtbtoday]

Washer to keep oil free moving so doesn't cause a force suction the oil sticking it to the flat side of the piston we have the same sort of thing in auto levelling fmin resin 3D printers it's to let the oil flow back level in the caliper if it didn't it would just stick and lock up! Very hard to explain in a comment but hopefully you get the idea? We have flat build plates that push down on the liquid resin but at the start of each print it'll rise to leave an air gap for the resin to flow back in place and it'll come down and press the liquid again the film but its all to avoid force suction of the oil getting stuck to the flat side! You probably tried to pick money up in the wet it gets stuck to the floor with the suction from water

[@chris1275cc]

🥖🥖🥖WOW that was a good catch, I pride myself on being able to troubleshoot bike issues but I'm not sure I would have spotted that. I know you said they performed well in terms of modulation and power, but were they an improvement over the originals? I tried genuine Shimano calipers with mine to see if it would improve the lever throw/feel with the whole pre-stroke thing these things have going on, they worked but kind of too well and I ended up with hair trigger brakes and not enough clearance at the rotor like the pistons would not fully return. If these improve things I might give them a whirl, if not I will just stick with the originals.

[@TryboBike]

I would replace the washer with nylon ones - for dat dere weight saving.

[@robinrai4973]

Nylon washers sound like a good idea, they look like pretty good callipers bar the small asterisks

[@marcusvernon4505]

Be careful with Nylon. Depending on the grade it can have a Tg (softening temperature) as low as 50 C 🥖🥖

[@jaro6985]

They look like trash to me.

[@_NoName...]

Our man always delivering TOP tricks and ideas to upgrade or bikes 🥖🥖🥖

[@JMacSp]

When you puch the pin with the tool, you need to have the olive close to it, thats all

[@KronoReaper]

12:23 I appreciate that comment 😂, we are indeed savages with our brakes 🥖🥖🥖

[@cthulpiss]

teflon washer would be ideal 🥖🥖

[@kristiaandoms2822]

Would you be able to fit Shimano or Magura calipers? Thanks.

[@chris1275cc]

I tried the non-series Shimano BR-RS405 calipers which are identical to pre Di2 105/Ultegra in design and function (just heavier) and they did work, but I found I lost a lot of pad clearance and couldn't do anything about it (tied both Shimano pads and the LT-Woo ones). If it was on my road bike I might have stuck with them but as it was gravel they did not clear the dirt very well, so I swapped them back. One up side of this was when I swapped back I used genuine Shimano BH90 hose (the ones with the silver insert) and it made a noticeable improvement especially at the back.

[@MarianBobolny]

When will you test the electronic LTwoo groupset? :)