Baldur's Gate 3 - Free Orpheus/No Illithid Transformation Walkthrough

This is a walkthrough for how to conclude Baldur's Gate 3 using Gale's Netherese Orb explosion while following the pathway of freeing Orpheus instead of siding with the Emperor. Gale and Lae'zel will need to be in your party for this to work when you confront the Emperor with the Orphic Hammer.
Folks were asking how to finish the game without being forced to have someone turn Illithid, so I've uploaded this.
Spoilers, obviously
#walkthrough #baldursgate3 #laezel

[@drno87]

Emperor says he never judged you, yet if you avoided the parasite powers he wouldn't shut up about how your inferior form was jeopardizing the mission.

[@ThatFont]

The emperor comes off as a villain because it’s plain to see they’ll say or do anything for their cause. It’s hard to discern the emperor’s priorities even in late game so there’s always a feeling of distrust for me.

[@ComradeBread]

@@ThatFont I think basically he'll do and say whatever to survive. Whether that means manipulating you or running off to join the brain because there's even a slight chance he might be able to slip away again, he'll do it. The reason he doesn't stay if you free frog boy is because gith boy would absolutely obliterate him on sight as an ilithid and because he's been siphoning his power.

[@Ailobyte]

Honestly, I don't think thats very accurate to how I think The Emperor thinks, lemme give you an analogy: Imagine you had to rely on a monkey to topple a mad dictator ruling over your country. Hes smart for a monkey, but hes still a monkey, you kinda see that his chances are minimal as he is. Fortunately, you possess a machine that will turn him into a human, thus improving his cognitive abilities and chances of success overall. Of course, you see no downsides to him becoming human, nor do you see that there are downsides to being human. You offer this to the monkey, he signs to you "no, I will stay monkey" Considering you have so much riding on him, wouldn't it seem at least a little fustrating that the monkey rejects such an obvious "upgrade"? (At least in your mind)

[@drno87]

@@Ailobyte Interesting that you went with "monkey". How would it change things if you followed the above reasoning with "Chinese" or "African" instead? If he sees your complaints as you being judgmental while he sees his complaints as sage observations, that shows a lot of arrogance.

[@ComradeBread]

@@Ailobyte That's also part of what he is. Mindflayers are cold, manipulative and uncaring. He sees his own form as superior and you as a tool to be used. During his shirtless dream if you say he plays the part of acting human well he'll outright call you his puppet

[@ThatSlowTypingGuy]

The Emperor: "You still dont trust me?" Me: "I trust you, I just dont want you to kill that guy."

[@kometax]

This is the line we're missing in this game.

[@RedMage8BT]

Trusting him means trusting that absorbing Orpheus is necessary

[@CroGamer002]

@@RedMage8BT Trusting isn't same as agreeing.

[@RedMage8BT]

@@CroGamer002 in the Emperor's mind it is

[@DEVil-po5xz]

honestly, you shouldn't trust him. look up Emporor shows his true color on youtube. he's one sick bastard.

[@yargeht]

The Emperor abandoning his game-long end goal in the final hour is wild, I don’t think he would just give tf up after all this time and walk back to enthrallment so willing

[@Praetorian349]

It is wild, but I guess he’s deathly afraid of what Orpheus will do to him for keeping him imprisoned and abusing his powers for so long.

[@savagesavant6817]

It’s wild but it makes sense. The princess was going to kill him he was not needed. Self preservation was the logical route at that point.

[@MaddyBlu9724]

Yeah, it's a real bad look for him that as soon as you put your foot down and dont agree to do whatever he tells you, he pitches a fit and decides to go full evil.

[@captainziggy82]

Exactly why I personally don’t trust him

[@kibuki91]

Keep in mind, this dude's a master manipulator. Everything he has told you has been a half-truth, going so far as to omit the fact he was mind-controlling all of his "friends." Like Stelmane. It's always been his way or the highway for him, and when you essentially break free of his manipulation and free Orpheus, he basically says "Aight, fuck u den" and dips. Orpheus would not have allowed him to live, and he most certainly knew he is not able to overpower your whole group *AND* Orpheus. So the only logical conclusion was to rejoin the Netherbrain.

[@rustyjones7908]

The Emperor says things that abusive exes have said to me tbh

[@JayMaverick]

It's scary effective manipulation. The Emp makes even the player doubt themself. But you notice toward the end 5/6 dialog options side with the emperor and the last one is a weak refusal, it's a sign that his manipulation is digging deep into the player character.

[@callumreilly9107]

Emperor: "I never lied to you!" Tav: "You witheld information at every turn." Emperor: "It's true that I witheld reality... and lied about Orpheus and his guards... and lied about myself... but it's just cos that's how mindflayers be :3"

[@Lleq3]

umm i have to lie??? not letting me lie is crossing my boundaries and thats toxic so??

[@eoncontroversial1614]

Bros so afraid of the prince he fumbled hard and sided with the thing he been trying to avoid😂

[@PirvateerKurei]

I've seen that happen to a lot of smart people. You're so smart that you end up being STUPID. Like, we have other options Emperor! (As someone who does not like Gale)

[@AndyMacster]

Ye. To be fair, Orpheus is hella fucking threatening to anything that is proud of being a Mind Flayer.

[@eddiefury]

When the Prince says the Honor guard could have freed him he's wrong. Only the hammer could have freed him. And you didn't possess the hammer earlier when you had that fight. So no, Orpheus. We had to kill your honor guard.

[@kometax]

Yup, I wish we could have ask him to elaborate XD

[@hazekaze]

No. The hammer is simply designed to free these infernal/Orpheus chain, but not the only thing that can free him. Think of it as a master key to a lock. It’s not a designed key but could literally open everything. The guard did break the cage’s first defense and very close to the second one. I think they will succeed.

[@kometax]

@@hazekaze Wasn't that orb spell put by the Emperor?

[@Blindluck92]

Honestly, in the cutscene before you fight them, his honor guard were doing a pretty good job of cracking the barrier with their bare hands. *We* need the hammer, but they didn't.

[@ElGordo94]

Wait Is Raphael the only one to tell us that only the hammer can free him? The hammer that only he has and tries to exchange with us for the crown he wants.

[@kristinekiefer3516]

If you break Orpheus's chains before talking to the Emperor, he's like "im sick of your BS, peace out" lmao

[@tairrendaly5855]

I really feel like we could convince the emperor to let us free the prince without him running to the netherbrain. (Might have been easier if you were friendly and/or started a romance with them) Once freed we could convince Orpheous not to attack the emperor because (if nothing else) theres a bigger threat to deal with and we NEED a illithid on our side to attack the netherbrain. I feel the persuasion dialog to convince the emperor would be something like; "let ME be the shield this time."

[@kibuki91]

I feel as though Orpheus would be far less forgiving towards the Emperor. Yes, you (potentially) kidnapped a Gith egg, yes, you aided in the deaths of his honor guard... and yes, you're partial Illithid. However, most of that would not have happened if not for the Emperor. And if it were up to the Emperor, Orpheus would not have been freed at all, but consumed. I'm doubtful even Orpheus would be so forgiving, nor would he trust the Emperor with the destruction of the Netherbrain.

[@xTheOneToSaveUsAllx]

Gosh that would be lovely.

[@leila13dnd]

Dude that would be so epic.

[@axo4383]

It's possible this is sometype of cut content. Possibly similar to Halsin and Minthara with Grove and Goblins. You can only choose either bug out to choose both?

[@iKrivetko]

I'm honestly tired of people going BUT HE WOULD KILL THE EMPEROR ON SIGHT. Seriously, he didn't become a prince by being a moron: he knows as well as the Emperor that they need a mind flayer to succeed. Quote from Voss, verbatim: "The Prince of the Comet aches for githyanki liberation more than he abhors ghaik".

[@ToyBoxBrain]

I really hope they add more to this option. It’s weird that they address you like you became a ghaik. I will not sacrifice myself, my Karlach or Orpheus.

[@Praetorian349]

Yeah, the visual glitch is odd, but beyond that cinematic no one acts like you transformed, so seems to work. :)

[@b.v.2705]

I hope that there’s a like, a high Persuasion DC option to free Orpheus and work with The Emperor. Like, the Emperor (if anybody) should be the one to sacrifice himself for Baldurs Gate. It’d be poetic since he founded it, and will defend it to the end and at least have some form of redemption considering his atrocities against Stelmane and betraying Ansur. This would be the best ending, no one becomes a Mindflayer, the Prince of The Comet and Gale live and the city heals with Duke Ravengard’s watch.

[@lokiserpentem8534]

@@b.v.2705 tbf he didn't exactly betray ansur. Ansur tried to kill him in his sleep

[@kibuki91]

@@lokiserpentem8534 The Emperor, who has lied to you, is the one that informs you that Ansur tried to kill him in his sleep... But peep this: Why would Balduran be sleeping in a ceremonial crypt? Why would Ansur's body be in such a state it's in if he'd snuck up on Balduran and died in a subsequent battle? Ansur is furious at Balduran's betrayal when you meet him, and does tell you he tried to kill Balduran as he was an illithid, but, the actual circumstances surrounding the battle are up in smoke. Balduran, who is keen on manipulating you for your aid, would not be honest about a single thing (He also lied about his relationship with Stelmane and the others), and tries to convince you that Ansur doesn't even exist, it's a myth as you enter the Shrine. He's keen on you not finding out his true nature via Ansur. The evidence kinda points to Ansur telling the truth about Balduran's betrayal after becoming Illithid.

[@lokiserpentem8534]

@@kibuki91 ansur literally admits to it Also, it seems implied he had a legit partnership with her BEFORE the enthrallment He doesnt lie to the player he just leaves out information

[@sagittariusa7662]

Gale: "Unleash me!" The Emperor: "No. Join me." Tav: "No." The Emperor: "Bye." Orpheus: "What... what just happened?" Gale: "Unleash me!" Orpheus: "No. I don't even know who you are." Gale: "Damn it. Will someone please unleash me?"

[@jaffarebellion292]

Gale: "Kaboooooooom?" Tav: "Yes, Gale. Kaboom."

[@benjammin5252]

Gale: what to do? Direct me.

[@96Haron96]

It's weird, but we have Omeluum, why not call him up without sacrificing anyone?

[@agirlnamedmichael1670]

Lots of folks have asked for this option. The argument is that Omeluum wouldn't be able to resist the Netherbrain this close to her.

[@96Haron96]

@@agirlnamedmichael1670 Then how does the protagonist in the guise of a "squid" do it? He's basically just been "born" and that doesn't stop him from confronting the brain.

[@agirlnamedmichael1670]

​@@96Haron96 I would assume because you have his protection. Remember Orpheus literally says "You will be the one ghaik I salute instead of slaughter". Orpheus would not protect Omeluum

[@96Haron96]

@@agirlnamedmichael1670 It's just that the developer didn't give us complete freedom. The Illithid has to be, and it's a must.What's also strange is that you can't convince the emperor not to kill Orpheus. Although when we choose Orpheus' side, the emperor leaves and that's when things get interesting. The Emperor takes the stones and kills Orpheus, why? Because if I choose Orpheus' side and become an illithid myself, I don't need to kill him anymore, and the emperor just chooses the side of the brain. How does that work? That's what I don't like.

[@agirlnamedmichael1670]

@@96Haron96 It's been widely discussed and the Emperor is(mistakenly) under the impression that you'll fail without him, and since he "broke free" from the Elder Brain he thinks he'll be able to do it again at a later time...he doesn't even realize that the Elder Brain ALLOWED him to "break free". She needed him to think he was free so that she could use him to get the pieces set up to gain her own freedom. He can't see past his own ego to realize he had been played. I think most people agree that he was unreasonable to bail on us, but it does make sense once you start looking at it a bit deeper.

[@GhostWriter520]

Meanwhile, Wyll is just like "What the fuck is going on..."

[@TootsyBootsy]

It's interesting how Wyll says he is willing to sacrifice his very soul for the people of Baldur's Gate, yet its Karlach that is willing to make the sacrifice in the end, not Wyll.

[@Infiltrator_]

@@TootsyBootsy To be fair he kinda already did sacrifice his soul to help people.

[@biomegnome8764]

@@TootsyBootsy Wyll still doesn't technically own his soul yet at that point lol

[@TootsyBootsy]

@@biomegnome8764 That wouldn't matter as the soul gets obliterated when turning into a mindflayer and Mizora is in no position to stop him. It fits his personality of being all talk though i will say that.

[@mm-fg1xc]

The Emporer proves he has no soul when he joins the Netherbrain.

[@65firered]

That was a move out of pure desperation. Remember all mind flayers are soulless, no exceptions. The moment that clues you in outside of several other conversations in the game, is when he shows you truth of his relationship with Stelmane.

[@flakdampler11]

Very nice, I didn’t know you could avoid transforming ANYONE and save Orpheus!

[@BreadCancer]

You need to blow up gale for that to work, otherwise someone needs to turn in order to cast the spell on the crown.

[@PauloGarcia-sp5ws]

@@BreadCancer But its gale. He's like the least likable character besides maybe Wyll, who is just UNBERABLY one dimensional.

[@BreadCancer]

@@PauloGarcia-sp5ws I disagree. Gale's great. If he's the least likable it's only because everyone else is even better.

[@zelorig8887]

@@PauloGarcia-sp5wsleast likeable for you, He’s chill.

[@riffgroove]

No, Minsk is the least likeable character. The only thing worse than an idiot is an annoying idiot.

[@FredtheUndead]

"But I -am- a Mind Flayer. Illusion is my language. Just as words and actions are yours." Yes, Emperor, telling someone "I'm a Liar. I lie, its what I do" is the surest path to trust when asking someone to trust you.

[@Sweatopod98]

Meanwhile Omeluun being nice and trustworthy, genuinely trying to help us multiple times Not even hiding his real identity in front of people because he is just chill like that

[@seeinred]

@@Sweatopod98and also suggesting you save other prisoners before him. Ironically, the worst part of the "Emperor" seems to be his original identity as Balduran. huh.

[@ManubibiWalsh]

“The Netherbrain calculates every possible move at once” but it’s not calculating how I can just drink a haste potion, misty step/fly my way around to the crown, cast the protection globe over myself while I cast a spell and break the protection over the brain before 5 turns have passed? I guess the brain just underestimates me way too much.

[@Talwyn22]

Thanks for this. It's a very good ending and fitting as in my playthrough, Gale had the conversation with Mystra at the temple and said he was going to be the hero of the hour. The only downside to this ending is that you don't get to personally kill the Emperor in combat.

[@chizhang4369]

I have not yet tested this, but seems that you can start the battle against the brain together but during it, you can at any chance, click on Gale’s orb button and start the cut scene of Gale blow up the brain still(he will say I think so it seems we still need to do this after all, and then teleport you away), I’m sure we can at least take down the emperor before that

[@ignarskjolvjentski7809]

You’re an absolute legend 🙏

[@nelsonelloi3770]

You don't really need Laezel in your party, all you have to do is receive the tadpole from the Emperor and then click the attack button before the part of the dialogue where he eats Orpheus's brain

[@honestbenny]

huh, nice discovery. But you still need Gale in party, yes?

[@nelsonelloi3770]

@@honestbenny if you want to actually beat the game without anyone transforming, yes.

[@devynn7x]

But Gale dies 😢 We need a happy ending for everyone, no transformations and no emperor.

[@elmarucham75]

This is the best ending for gale he lives happy with mistra after this but you need to play the origin character to see it

[@harlequin5664]

going back to his abuser isn't necessarily a happy ending... @@elmarucham75

[@elenalizabeth]

Like if you could use Omeluum. He is already illithid and so why couldn’t he be of use? Like surely after saving him and because he likes this realm, then he would want to help 🤔

[@dorkydragon5055]

I like it personally. Taking a good path isn't easy, sometimes it's muddy uncomfortable and painful.

[@YelMalanta]

But his soul doesn't die, unlike an Illithid transformation.

[@va1tiel]

The Gale part at 10:28 didn't proc for me but following from 10:58 onwards still worked! Thanks so much!

[@SatansLtlBaby]

I also didn’t have gale speak up during the Orpheus interaction but I also didn’t get the speech option either so this didn’t work for me!! I had to choose myself or Orpheus or karlach who was also with me. Perhaps that’s why?

[@_mirmir_000]

@@SatansLtlBabysame for me🥲 maybe they fixed that? Thats my guess…

[@jaffarebellion292]

7:00 "Only a ghaik deals in absolutes. I will do what I must"

[@stevenpedersen1505]

Just a heads up to anyone seeing this video now, got to the top of the brain and it gave me 4 turns until someone HAD to become illithid.

[@Steve00245]

Yeah, I've just found that now, which I'm pretty upset about, guess Lae'zel is gonna have to take the hit

[@Praetorian349]

You don’t fight the Brain, you use Gale to self destruct and skip the fight. No transformation.

[@NeonRiff]

This ending just makes so much more sense than the others. It seems strange that there’s not even a persuasion check you can attempt to get Orpheus to trust you that the orb will work.

[@jeremyjealousy]

Wow. Theres truly not one option without one consequence.

[@zombieboyfiend]

Voss: My sword is yours. Me: Yea... I got that from you in chapter 1. lol

[@Rekkenze]

minthara: oh you want me to become a mindflayer? No questions asked fam, lemme snort that shit.

[@kazicam]

the heartbreak in lae'zels voice hurt my soul bro

[@luciapitti1722]

He always lied by omission, I will not tell why and how, since it would be a massive spoiler, but there's a reason why none of his allies still live and one of them was literally the one that freed him from the collective.

[@exrhythm]

THIS!!! gahh i am so tired of people not understanding why the emperor ditches you when it's so obvious after you put the manipulative pieces together

[@Vandriar]

Spoil it for me please.

[@luciapitti1722]

@@exrhythm exactly, the only values that he sees in you, are the ones that you provide to him, while with the companions, you share the burden and you care for each others, even the red comet is actually more an ally in those 5 minutes than the emperor in the whole adventure and he admits that he's forced to work with you to defeat the netherbrain, but when the emperor would have ditched you, the comet fights with you. Like... when you are in front of the emperor's ex, he goes like "yeah, he's really mad that we work togheter... by the way by by" or when the guards try to free the comet he's like "yeah, this is my battle to fight, so I'm going to use some weak charm spells, while you do the heavy lifting"

[@luciapitti1722]

@@Vandriar Duke Stelmane, was killed by the cult, but rendered disabled by the Emperor's visits to keep the woman enthralled (he confesses it if you upset him). Ansur was his former lover and freed him from the colony, tried to cure him and according to the emperor tried to kill him once he (Ansur) lost all hopes for a cure and I have all the reasons to belive that the emperor is lying. The emperor's former identity is Balduran and he was a manipulative POS also back then, since he says all over again the 4 pillars ( justice, courage, insight and strenght) and then leaves his lover to go to adventures because he actually careS aboute fame and adventures, which blindly lead him to moonrise tower where he got caught by ilithids and turned into one of them (so much for insight). For unknown reasons history does not remember about Ansur. If you are nothing but extremely polite, while rejecting him, he goes confesses what he did to the Duke and he says that tav should be grateful that he changed his tactics, with a not so veiled threat. He hides that Orfeus is the power in the artefact. He doesn't say that he was formely known as Balduran, yes that Balduran, the founder of Baldur's gate (a bit egocentric to call a city after yourself, because the city already existed, he just expanded it). He appears to Minsc as Dynaheir, Minsc's former ''witch'', for the traditions of his birthplace, he was supposed to protect her and he was really affectionate to her, I would actually say that he loved her and, she died to save him and the emperor took the semblances, not as she was, but as she would be if she was still alive, which caused him to cower into a corner, until the emperor said what Dynaheir would have never said to Minsc, she '' said what I wanted to hear, not what she always said, which is a variant of stupid'' and throught your interaction with Minsc you actually see how much that hurt him, he's not himself when he recounts the encounter and he's not very willing to talk about it and that, alongside with the last sentence that Ansur spoke before he collapses dead ("Balduran what have you done") in a sad and exausted voice really cemented my hate for the emperor.

[@pryordevine3855]

Considering this video is from the end of the game, I think spoilers are warranted

[@justusdaniel3913]

the best ending possible is to let Orpheus become mind flayer, Let Laezel have the gith egg in her inventory (important) convince Orpheus to not kill himself,. you will have one of the best endings in the epilogue.

[@Praetorian349]

If you check out my epilogue video that comes from this method you might see it’s quite similar. :P

[@lokiserpentem8534]

I felt like having orpheus die was a better ending, He wants to continue his mothers dream of conquering the multiverse. I saved him and killed him when he was a mindflayer. Though One cool thing I noticed. Lae'zel can still join the rebellion in the astral sea if you side with the emporer. I'm assuming its because I passed my persuasion check with Voss. But she can have the same ending regardless of who you side with. At first she's pissed but in the party she talks about missing you and your friendship and that soon shell be able to come back and adventure with us again

[@JKDavitz]

⁠​⁠@@lokiserpentem8534I don’t think you’re simply trading one gith tyrant for another. The epilogue indicates that the Orpheus side of the githyanki is entering peace talks with the githzerai

[@lokiserpentem8534]

@@JKDavitz it was an alliance between the rebels and githzerai. It might end up not the case, but I have a hard time trusting it based on his conversation with voss in my playthrough about completing the one sky

[@ccvv1119]

Oh ok I’ll try it in my next playthrough I let Orpheus become the mind flayer and honestly I think it was great for Laezel

[@ashadsiddiqui3226]

Yeah this works but it’s really weird how the scene is bugged. They just needed one line to fix it. After Orpheus says the whole “ah you were testing me as I tested you, you are honorable” line, he should have said he was testing you and now trusts you and the wizard. But before this there need to be a line or scene where you show Orpheus the supremes tadpole from the emperor. Adding these two things would make this make so much more sense. That and removing the part where you look illithid in the scene.

[@Jrockk999]

I really wish there was some option to convince the Emperor and Orpheus to work together.

[@BlondeNordic]

"I have been your salvation from the very beginning" Ah no, Orpheus has because Opheus is the one protecting you as well. Alone you would fall to the big bad brain. Gaslighting and manipulation if he or it didn't need you and your merry band of misfits he /it would of had no use for you. :)

[@Enclave.]

I managed to stumble on this ending myself as well, convinced a friend of mine to replay so he could get this ending as well since it's mostly the ending he wanted for his character :P

[@Foodisgood]

My gith ending worked like this. I romanced Lae'zel we went off with Orpheus to fight for gith freedom and Karlach was turned into a mindflayer so no one died and she didn't return to Arvenus.

[@EstebanBrenesV]

Do mind that that is not karlach but her tadpole with her memories

[@yharnamiyhill787]

It's unlike the Emperor for wanting to get re-entralled by the brain...

[@elifittz]

Well if you choose to Free Orpheus, you put him in a predicament. He's fully convinced Orpheus will slay him once freed, so the choice is between certain death and a life of slavery to the brain. He chooses to live no matter what, and believes that at least with the Netherbrain he'll have a chance at surviving Orpheus' wrath. Unfortunately for him, I killed him anyway.

[@PirvateerKurei]

Instructions unclear, i turned the wjole party and the world into loathsome Ghaik

[@Fawstah]

I did this, and it turned me fully on my honor mode playthrough

[@Praetorian349]

That's irritating. I just finished my honour mode run and did this method again, worked like a charm. :) Meant I didn't have to fight the Netherbrain fight and risk my run, so I took the coward's way out. ;)

[@cyberspectre8675]

Laezel: "I will not forget what you did here today." Tav: "I will."

[@user-hx4dq8ch6j]

is the visual bug of the mind flayer fixed as of patch 6? (right after you tell orpheus u will become illithid)

[@lordsanto88]

You can also get this without Laezel, choose the attack option before the Emperor assimilate Orpheus. This is what I did last week in a honor mode run where Laezel was not a main in my party composition

[@mjr8888]

This is the only part of the game I hate. The Emperor just ditching everything because you want to free Orpheus? That's bull. You should be able to convince the Emperor and Orpheus to work along side each other to stop the Netherbrain, and therefore no one needs to change. Don't get me wrong, Orpheus has every right to be pissed that he was held captive like that (though him saying you should've surrendered to the honor guard and let them kill you makes me roll my eyes as he still has that "I am above you" trait all of his kind has), but I bet he would understand working with the Emperor to stop the NB is worth putting aside things for the moment. Then, after killing the brain, you can have a moment where Orpheus either kills the Emperor for keeping them imprisoned, or with a high CHA check, let the Emperor go.

[@Hailoow]

yeah like, my 22 charisma bard has told endless bosses and mini bosses alike to off themselves why can't they also convince them to work together? seems pretty tame in comparison

[@Chadius_Thundercock]

@@Hailoow exactly it makes no sense. I have the charisma to tell a werewolf to kill a group of people, it’s pack and itself with my fucking mind but convincing a guy to not join an enemy he’s been fighting for a long time is too much? The writing in act 3 for the main story is so bad and rushed. It’s weird cause the astarion and raphael quests are fantastic, but they couldn’t keep that same quality for the main part of the game

[@pieterlindeque7798]

The issue is Emperor doesn't really care about stopping the brain. He cares about his own survival and power. He couldn't care less about anything other than his own desires. He wants to create his own mindflayer empire and you're just a pawn towards that goal. He ditches you because you don't give him what he wants. The brain is just an obstacle in his way. If he doesn't get his say he couldn't care less about what happens to it.

[@dancinginfernal]

He doesn't trust you. He thinks you're incapable by this point, and he's not going to wager on anything that isn't a sure bet. He also thinks he knows far more than you. So when you choose to double-down on Orpheus, he doesn't even consider the possibility you're right. He just decides he'll wait until he can escape again and try to kill the brain at the next opportunity that arises.

[@Solitude1990]

It's in character with who he is. In the dialoque he admits a liar and deceitful is who he is and he can't help it. Him saying saying "fuck it, I'm going back" is within his very selfish character

[@grundypeebo]

Thank you for this. Now i know to reload a save to ensure gale is in my party at least. However, is sacrifice the outsome for gsle? He cant control the crown?

[@downwhere]

If you do this option, Gale HAS to blow up the netherbrain right? Because you don’t actually have a mind flayer in your team?

[@s-ebbyy841]

As soon as i found out who the emperor was i trusted them.

[@sithslime]

So you have to pick these specific dialogue options to have everyone stay normal? I usually just had orphius do it because I didn’t really care for him too much.

[@Praetorian349]

Haha, true enough, but I couldn’t upset Lae’zel by dooming her Space Jesus. :P You just need Lae’zel and Gale to be in the party, and the key dialogue options are telling the Emperor you will turn to a Mindflayer, then saying you’ll do it later (so that you have the tadpole in your inventory for if you don’t use Gale’s Orb at the Brain). Then you side with Lae’zel to free Orpheus and tell Orpheus to trust Gale’s plan. He’ll accept his “assurance” without you actually properly turning ingame because you have the option to transform with the tadpole. Then just go through with Gale’s plan.

[@sithslime]

@@Praetorian349 wow, one of my playthroughs was a monk chick and I thought I’d be able to bypass becoming ilithid so the monk became ilithid then sacrificed herself not to be ilithid anymore. Had her with karlach so they both died. A tragic yet bitter sweet end for that character, at least they both now have each other in the afterlife 🤷‍♂️

[@sunnyhill7919]

@@Praetorian349 yeah, but then Gale dies. I like Orpheus much less than I like Gale.

[@nicholaspitts9561]

Classic Lae'zel, so quick to judge before you have an opportunity to show your true intent. She's the definition of a hot head, and got herself caught by Orin, but she's soooo tough. Lol. Damn it Lae'zel.

[@tvmeyer]

This may be a dumb question, but can you actually defeat the brain if nobody turns illithid? Also, by going this route, does this mean you sacrifice Gale by using the orb?

[@jonathanhibberd9983]

"Your powers of manipulation aee quite something." My guy, seriously? This coming from you?

[@jeshonloonskin4176]

How do you get the gale scenes to proc? Neither of them even played during this part

[@arashimifune2853]

Lol, the Emperor saying "...your powers of manipulation". The audacity! :P Tbh, there should be an option for anyone with a tadpole to turn into an illithid, not just the player, Orpheus or Karlach. How does this method work with the epilogue?

[@ShadeKazin]

So what happens when you get to the end? Do you just have gale go boom or do you have the ability to win against the brain still?

[@Praetorian349]

You can still fight the brain but you need an Illithid so you’d use the tadpole. If you want no Illithids then Gale’s got a job to do.

[@Kuwaie10]

I did the exact things you did but at 10:34 my Gale doesn’t speak so i can’t proceed without sacrificing anyone :( My relations with Gale is exceptional too. I really don’t get it?

[@Praetorian349]

That’s odd, I wonder if you’ve had interactions with him earlier in the game where a dialogue option has turned him off to the idea of using the Orb? :-/

[@Kuwaie10]

@@Praetorian349 Yeah, probably i did something to mess this up beforehand. But today i manage to do this without sacrificing anyone but i don't even know how i did it :D I agreed to become a mindflayer, and in a brief moment in the cutscene it showed me as a mindflayer, but after that cutscene everything was normal and i didn't turn to a mindflayer and nobody mentioned about it either. Game proceeded as normal and in the end Gale sacrified himself and i got the ending i wanted in the end (with nobody turned into a mindflayer). I suppose it was a bug but it worked out for me so i don't care xD ps: Before speaking to Orpheus (while speaking with Emperor), i said to Emperor that we need a moment to discuss internally about turning into a mindflayer, and in that moment i spoke with Gale about him exploding himself. He proposed that he could blow himself up if needed. This could be the reason of the bug that prevented myself becoming a mindflayer. Just wanted to add this so if anyone have the same issue as mine can use the same pattern. This conversation probably be needed beforehand in order to work this bug out.

[@shakyrob6512]

Wanted to add that I had the same error... Gale never entered the convo. So I picked that I would be the one to transform when talking to the prince. When all was said and done I was still fine. I followed all the other dialogue prompts and convos in the order they appeared.

[@WhatBigClawsYouHave]

Damn guess I should have done Gales quest, I only have the option of becoming the mindflayer and then I pop back into my Drow form 🤔😂

[@thearoy3338]

So... what do you do against the brain? You need a mind flayer to use the Karsus' compulsion spell right?

[@Praetorian349]

In this video we say we’re going to use Gale’s Netherese Orb explosion to kill the Netherbrain. We weren’t lying about that. :P I’ve got another video of the aftermath of this decision where Gale blows himself up on the Netherbrain and everyone mourns the loss of our Wizard, with no one sprouting tentacles.

[@thearoy3338]

@@Praetorian349 fascinating! I've genuinely never heard of this outcome. Definitely a solid way to end everything if you're not attatched to Gale.

[@Praetorian349]

@@thearoy3338 I quite like Gale as a character, but watching him martyr himself for the world, and seeing his epilogue scenes was really special. :)

[@corvenalemna8631]

Dont know if anyone knows the answer, but would it be possible for 2 characters to become illithid? 1 from orpheus, and the other from the tadpole in your inventory?

[@idiosapien]

Does this path force you to sacrifice Gale at the end or are you still somehow able to open the last gate to the Netherbrain at the end?

[@Praetorian349]

You either sacrifice Gale or you use the tadpole the Emperor gave you to turn Illithid in order to open the gate into the brain. :P

[@gunnarollaisawesome]

is it possible to send the supreme tadpole to a different character and have them go through full ceremorphosis?

[@destinygalearies7382]

@@gunnarollaisawesome Nope, only the player avatar can become a mindflayer (including if you're playing an origin character), or it's Karlach or Orpheus

[@jeroenpreder9785]

You can give her an owlbear egg in place of the gith egg. It's quite funny.

[@MoonsongReverb]

I wish there was an option to convince the Emperor, that keeping Orpheus alive helps everyone. I don’t like sacrificing Karlach to Mindflayerdom, or Gale with the orb either. For Lae’zel seining Orpheus transformed is also bad

[@kibuki91]

Sacc'ing Karlach is now the worst option imo. Before, it was passable as her engine was not able to be fixed, and if not in a romance with her you couldn't convince her to go back to Avernus. But with the new epilogue, you can convince her to go back to Avernus, and later she finds out a solution to her problem that may let her stay in Faerun for good.

[@pugpolice4323]

​@kibuki91 You could always send her and Wyll to Avernus but yeah it's definitely the worst option now imo.

[@oliverlow2474]

Yeah as it’s presented, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. The only reason the Emperor needs to kill Orpheus is so that he can absorb his powers, and then be able to leave the prism and use the stones against the brain. But if you become a mind-flayer instead, and wield the stones yourself… then the Emperor shouldn’t have to leave the prism anymore! Yet somehow one of you is still forced into killing Orpheus.

[@MoonsongReverb]

@@oliverlow2474 Yeah, right? Then again, because of this I rather sacrifice an Npc than any of my companions Becoming a Mindflayer yourself, means that once you get close to an elderbrain without that powerful help, you are screwed. The elderbrain can control a Mindflayer and then you become a danger to your possible partner and everyone. So I never picked that option Who knows what the developers come up with for maybe any updates or addons. ^^

[@1SaG]

Easy solution: Don't bring Lae'zel to the final battle. In one of my play-throughs, I failed that last DC with her asking her to stay (after the battle is over), so she only appeared at the after-party as a projection, but sounded like she didn't hold any grudges against Tav. Last play-through I rolled a 20 on that last check, so she stayed and was present at the party "for real". Not a huge difference in her attitude, though. I was doing an Honour-run, so I chose the obvious scenario for the final battle and let the Emperor assimilate Orpheus. I also would never want Karlach to turn into a squid, so the only other option I ever chose was to reject the Emperor and let Orpheus grow tentacles. He seemed quite happy to do it, too.. :D

[@richardsego]

Ugh, i wish this worked for me! I encountered a bug (and have read that many others had the same experience) that will not allow me to proceed through the portal unless I side with the Emperor and wind up losing Orpheus, and therefore Laezel, and later Karlach. I have all the netherstones and the Triune stone, and it doesn't matter who is in my party (I was hoping after watching this video that I just needed this party combo). But I tried again following your choices exactly, and it still tells me I can't proceed "without the stones". WTF? 😞

[@nuclearnadal281]

Bros character looks like medieval gigachad

[@Demigodishe]

So, Do you need to detonate Gale in the end battle?

[@Infiltrator_]

I wish there’s an option in the future where the emperor doesn’t abandon you but I understand why he does it lol. I just can’t see turning my Tav into a mindflayer or Karachi not to mention getting Gale to blow himself up. I’ll always choose Orpheus to turn lol.

[@CulinVlau]

That's not how it worked for me. But I didn't take the tadpole from the Emperor. I told him I will free Orpheus and he left. When the choice came between me and Orpheus to become ilithid, I chose me and Orpheus temporarily removed his protection of my mind. The Brain's constant command to transform kicked in and I became ilithid. For some reason that didn't happen here for you. Btw, what is that armor your character was wearing?

[@timelesspudge]

Dammon sells this armor in act 3 if he is alive.

[@Praetorian349]

Armour of Persistence, from Dammon in Act 3 (if he's still alive) :P bg3.wiki/wiki/Armour_of_Persistence And yeah, the key difference is taking the tadpole, so you have a way to turn Illithid yourself if you choose, without Orpheus just doing it to you by lowering his guard against the Netherbrain.

[@rath9089]

So on my first run, Lae'zel died at the dragon encounter at the mountain pass.. cause I literally didn't know where to find her, I somehow missed her being caged by the tieflings and when I got to her, she was killed by the kith'rak... so ultimately by the end I sided with the emperor cause.. I had no reason to side with orpheus lol

[@arnaudvanlichtervelde8022]

Same for me, but you can resurrect her ! ;-)

[@000Dragon50000]

Since this is Patch 5, is this reflected in the epilogue?

[@Praetorian349]

Yep, here are the epilogue scenes with Lae’zel from this, and I have the Gale scenes in another video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJO7mnqJrdeJaZIsi=PWZTTwtbqz-8yDoQ

[@johnweslo9635]

So if you do this method, how do you defeat the netherbrain without the special karsus move that you have to channel?

[@Praetorian349]

You told Orpheus you’re gonna use Gale’s bomb. You’re not a liar. :P

[@johnweslo9635]

@Praetorian349 OH gotcha. That's not what I wanted to do haha.

[@bouncin13]

This still works but i believe it REQUIRES gale and lae. I tried to do this with gale karlach and shart and kept not getting the right cutscene

[@savinkov3584]

I wish they would add Emperor and Orpheus ally ending

[@shaktosh524]

Highly doubt it. After the emperor abused his powers, killed his guards and kept him imprisoned, there is no way Orpheus was going to let him live.

[@savinkov3584]

@@shaktosh524 So let the dice roll, they can add high diff persuasion roll

[@MrVirus9898]

@@savinkov3584 Sorry diplomancers, at some point you need to roll up your sleeves and make decisions.

[@clearskiesastro1028]

While you can go into the brain fight doing this trick, you can't use the stones to face the final stage of brain fight without having a Illithid in group, so doing this gets you stuck unable to end the game.

[@XYZMIKEL]

How does it effect everything after? do they still refer to you as a mind flayer?

[@Praetorian349]

No one refers to you as a Mindflayer even once. :) Options that are closed to Mindflayers are open with this walkthrough, like previously Lae'zel wouldn't be convinced to stay with you in Faerun when you're a Mindflayer, but she will stay no questions asked.

[@XYZMIKEL]

@@Praetorian349 so how do you defeat the netherbrain without being illithid

[@1SaG]

The Emperor abandoning the party, claiming he "has no choice but to join the Netherbrain" doesn't make any sense to me. This is in stark contrast to everything he's ever stated (and done) during the entire story - most importantly it will let him fall back under the control of the very enemy he had been fighting all this time and make him a part in the destruction of the whole region, perhaps the entire world. IMO, he had always been someone who'd approach problems logically and rationally - and this whole "if you're not going to do it my way, I'll turn on you and join our enemies"-twist seems like the very antithesis of logic and rationality to me. More like the action of a rejected lover/friend, or something. Thing is: I don't see why he would have to reject the idea of Orpheus getting freed and on top of that why switching sides would be his "only option" if Orpheus is set free. Him staying neutral in the fight ahead would be an option or perhaps him committing suicide. Or perhaps trying to work out a compromise that would allow Orpheus to live. I mean: There *is* the option of turning Orpheus into a Mind Flayer and letting him handle the stones - I don't see why this wouldn't also have been an option without the Emperor betraying the party.

[@sauracifer3557]

well someone still dies sad there isnt a perfect ending

[@SweetKarma954]

So weird I had gale in my party but he one mentioned the orb once and not ever again during the whole dialog. Orry left it up to me or him becoming lilithid :/

[@a_ghost5950]

Does everyone treat you like an illithid though? Like is still being human just a visual bug but everyone sees you as one?

[@ArtemisDalmasca]

Oh my poor baby Gale! 😢

[@srellison561]

Looks like a pretty big glitch. How did it play out after that? Did Tav open the portal to the Netherbrain? Did Gale go nuclear?

[@Praetorian349]

Used Gale's bomb. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ponViqKOjNGtnac Might be a glitch, might not be, but everything functions exactly as you'd expect. :)

[@srellison561]

@@Praetorian349 Okay, thanks. I thought so, but it wasn't clear.

[@marceldanton1774]

I really wait larian make one final with emperor e Orpheus together in fight will be awesome.

[@knyazcchanel9440]

For all those who thinks that Emperor is good guy you are so mistaken just remember what he is saying if after obtaining 2 netherstone you say that you want to kill brain he will tell you that is not a wise decision, he is just seeking power.

[@zah2156]

SMH I left my hammer back in camp smfh now I’m looking at Orpheus stuck in the orb smfh

[@stephenkeeffe8872]

Does this still work? i tried it, but it didn't pass. DO you have to have gale in your party?

[@Praetorian349]

Yeah, Gale is the key to having an alternative way to kill the Netherbrain, without needing an Illithid. :)

[@Cyprus.themochaccino]

Let’s remember that at one point the Emporer tries to rizz you up by summoning you with his shirt off😂😂😂

[@Baka-kun89]

so is opening the portal to the netherbrain during the final fight the same difficulty and process if noone becomes illithid?

[@Praetorian349]

You have to use the tadpole to turn Illithid if you want to do the fight and open the portal. Otherwise you use Gale’s bomb to keep everyone less-than-tentacled. :P

[@Baka-kun89]

@@Praetorian349 ooooh I see. Bummer 😭(but still helpful, thank you!)

[@DragonologyStudent]

That's so cool! Really I would like an ending where we prove that the supposed "lesser species" can still overcome the netherbrain What happens after the battle? Or in the epilogue? Does the game act like you are transformed?

[@Praetorian349]

Yeah, that'd be cool. And nah, the game treats everything as normal. I put up a couple of videos of the aftermath with Gale and my romance with Lae'zel. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJO7mnqJrdeJaZI

[@kruszewskimikoaj1200]

Technically if you free Orpheus then it can end well both for him and the Emperor. We kill the Netherbrain and Emp is free.

[@onyxhellfire4534]

Unfortunately, can't do this if you're playing as Lea'zel yourself

[@coldsteelblue7275]

Just copied this frame for frame & word for word, but Galr never said anything during Orpheus's dialogue, still, I was able to offer myself up & the rest progressed as with this vid

[@trisst9370]

It depends if you pushed gale to blowing himself up during the earlier parts of his quest line. You can give him hope or tell him to do it. Only then will he offer himself, otherwise he wants to live and defy Mystra.

[@coldsteelblue7275]

@@trisst9370 interesting, in another pt,I discouraged him from blowing himself up & I had to pass a persuasion check for him not to do it, sometimes I wonder if it's random, I still managed to get the ending this time though, but I had to pass a dc 25 check to get him to go ahead, ah well

[@Black_Silvery]

Is bring Laezel necessary to make it work?

[@lieselstrick]

Hmmm, okay. This strategy didn't work out for me. Romanced Gale and told him not to performe the new year's eve firework and stay alive. So he didn't offer it with orpheus, just in the previous conversation with the emperor. And since I already have the tadpole, there is just the question orpheus or Tav. And if I just send the emperor away "don't bother me, let me free orpheus", free the Prince and don't offer to become a mindflayer, Tav and prince start the conversation and he tells us to make a decision who should become a mind flayer. You can ask for a break for decisionmaking and Gale tells you privat that there would be still the orb and he'd rather die than let tav becoming a mind flayer.... 🥴 This strategy starts waaaay earlier in the game...

[@ramondejesus65]

Laezel is easily one of my favorite characters. I kind of regret cheating on her with the She-Devil 😅 Having her on anything other than Githyanki armor feels weird to me lol

[@eleanorgreywolfe5142]

"You still don't trust me" Bro you're literally an ililthid

[@paulcassimere2570]

Can you beat the game going about it this way? I’m trying to avoid anyone becoming a squid but Google says I have to

[@Praetorian349]

You can, sacrificing Gale using this method means no Illithid. But Gale’s dead, so there’s a trade off. :P

[@leandrogamarra3163]

What happens when you finallly have to destroy the brain?, you become Ilithid?

[@bomblast2000]

Why can't they just free him after the brain has been dealt with?

[@a_ghost5950]

You can't beat the game. At the end it still makes you take the tadpole at the top of the brain.

[@AnonymousTakenGhost]

Now...hear me out....I'm currently doing a no-illithid playthrough.....and i dropped the Supreme tadpole on the ground as soon as he gave it to me....am i screwed??

[@Praetorian349]

I just tested it on my save and yeah, it looks like if you drop the tadpole then Orpheus doesn't consider that you're able to turn yourself, so he will turn you when you say you'll do it. If you have the tadpole in your inventory then he just accepts that you'll turn yourself, I guess. :( Sorry buddy, hope you have a save from before you dropped it!

[@Praetorian349]

Hahaha, tested it some more, when you drop it it disappears, but you still have the option of offering for Orpheus to use the tadpole. When you do he says "Are you kidding, you misplaced it? Find it!". But if you say you will turn he will turn you without waiting on the tadpole.

[@LukeEvans55]

Is this new? I haven't completed a campaign yet, but every source I've read is that there was no way to free orpheus without anyone becoming a mind flayer. It seems like this is more of a glitch than intended? I don't see what having Gale in your party is doing. Do people treat you as if you've transformed later on?

[@Praetorian349]

No, they don’t treat you like an Illithid. If you check my other two uploaded videos you can see the aftermath of this, everyone acknowledges you are not Illithid and Lae’zel will kiss you and such (which she wouldn’t do for an Illithid). Gale is the key as you use him to beat the Netherbrain with his self destruct explosion, instead of having an Illithid use the Netherstones. This isn’t a glitch as far as I can tell, as if you decide not to use Gale in the end, your companions will say voice lines about instead using the tadpole to turn Illithid to fight the Brain. It just does appear to be a little buggy.

[@LukeEvans55]

@@Praetorian349 ah I see, so you say you will sacrifice Gale as a consequence but then don't use him like at moonrise? Or you 100% have to kill him this time? I'm trying to spoil as a little of the ending as possible while getting the best ending possible so apologies if I missed anything.

[@Praetorian349]

@@LukeEvans55 Haha, you either use Gale’s explosion or you use the tadpole and turn Illithid. It doesn’t appear you can have Gale alive and no Illithid transformation or Emperor assistance. Although someone pointed out that if you play as Origin Gale you can turn Illithid and then Mystra can turn you back, which is cool, that seems like the only no-Illithid ending with Gale still alive, from what I can tell. :)

[@agirlnamedmichael1670]

@@Praetorian349 She can't turn Gale back unless he goes with her to Elysium

[@datboid4807]

Ngl im so confused on what I didn’t do or i missed something because I didn’t have any of this dialogue. Nothing about having the nether stones or freeing orpheus. I killed the honor guard and the emperor just reinforced his bonds before basically being given no choice but to take the damn tadpole and become half ilithid. Only option i had was a skill check to say j wouldn’t take it which i had absolutely no chance in passing?????

[@Praetorian349]

The cutscene you’re talking about is further back at the start of act 3. This walkthrough is for much later. :)

[@hashirakun5386]

If the emperor keep her humanoid form, i would've side with her no doubt, but from act 3 to ending he always using thay freeky tantacle form