Baldur's Gate 3 - Free Orpheus/No Illithid Transformation Walkthrough

[@drno87]

Emperor says he never judged you, yet if you avoided the parasite powers he wouldn't shut up about how your inferior form was jeopardizing the mission.

[@ThatFont]

The emperor comes off as a villain because it’s plain to see they’ll say or do anything for their cause. It’s hard to discern the emperor’s priorities even in late game so there’s always a feeling of distrust for me.

[@ComradeBread]

@@ThatFont I think basically he'll do and say whatever to survive. Whether that means manipulating you or running off to join the brain because there's even a slight chance he might be able to slip away again, he'll do it. The reason he doesn't stay if you free frog boy is because gith boy would absolutely obliterate him on sight as an ilithid and because he's been siphoning his power.

[@Ailobyte]

Honestly, I don't think thats very accurate to how I think The Emperor thinks, lemme give you an analogy: Imagine you had to rely on a monkey to topple a mad dictator ruling over your country. Hes smart for a monkey, but hes still a monkey, you kinda see that his chances are minimal as he is. Fortunately, you possess a machine that will turn him into a human, thus improving his cognitive abilities and chances of success overall. Of course, you see no downsides to him becoming human, nor do you see that there are downsides to being human. You offer this to the monkey, he signs to you "no, I will stay monkey" Considering you have so much riding on him, wouldn't it seem at least a little fustrating that the monkey rejects such an obvious "upgrade"? (At least in your mind)

[@drno87]

@@Ailobyte Interesting that you went with "monkey". How would it change things if you followed the above reasoning with "Chinese" or "African" instead? If he sees your complaints as you being judgmental while he sees his complaints as sage observations, that shows a lot of arrogance.

[@ComradeBread]

@@Ailobyte That's also part of what he is. Mindflayers are cold, manipulative and uncaring. He sees his own form as superior and you as a tool to be used. During his shirtless dream if you say he plays the part of acting human well he'll outright call you his puppet

[@ThatSlowTypingGuy]

The Emperor: "You still dont trust me?" Me: "I trust you, I just dont want you to kill that guy."

[@kometax]

This is the line we're missing in this game.

[@RedMage8BT]

Trusting him means trusting that absorbing Orpheus is necessary

[@CroGamer002]

@@RedMage8BT Trusting isn't same as agreeing.

[@RedMage8BT]

@@CroGamer002 in the Emperor's mind it is

[@DEVil-po5xz]

honestly, you shouldn't trust him. look up Emporor shows his true color on youtube. he's one sick bastard.

[@yargeht]

The Emperor abandoning his game-long end goal in the final hour is wild, I don’t think he would just give tf up after all this time and walk back to enthrallment so willing

[@Praetorian349]

It is wild, but I guess he’s deathly afraid of what Orpheus will do to him for keeping him imprisoned and abusing his powers for so long.

[@savagesavant6817]

It’s wild but it makes sense. The princess was going to kill him he was not needed. Self preservation was the logical route at that point.

[@MaddyBlu9724]

Yeah, it's a real bad look for him that as soon as you put your foot down and dont agree to do whatever he tells you, he pitches a fit and decides to go full evil.

[@captainziggy82]

Exactly why I personally don’t trust him

[@kibuki91]

Keep in mind, this dude's a master manipulator. Everything he has told you has been a half-truth, going so far as to omit the fact he was mind-controlling all of his "friends." Like Stelmane. It's always been his way or the highway for him, and when you essentially break free of his manipulation and free Orpheus, he basically says "Aight, fuck u den" and dips. Orpheus would not have allowed him to live, and he most certainly knew he is not able to overpower your whole group *AND* Orpheus. So the only logical conclusion was to rejoin the Netherbrain.

[@rustyjones7908]

The Emperor says things that abusive exes have said to me tbh

[@JayMaverick]

It's scary effective manipulation. The Emp makes even the player doubt themself. But you notice toward the end 5/6 dialog options side with the emperor and the last one is a weak refusal, it's a sign that his manipulation is digging deep into the player character.

[@makiiavely]

@@JayMaverick jesus i never thought it went that deep. I mean i know the emperor is one manipulative son of a bitch but man i feel so used now. Another thing that fits into that narrative is the fact that the emperor sems to be the one that tadpoles you at the beginning of the game and i don't think it's ever brought up, and yet he acts as your saviour through the entire game

[@XetoKiyaba]

He was being controlled that point in the game but yes crazy it isnt brought up​@@makiiavely

[@makiiavely]

@@XetoKiyaba Is he? Because the absolute states that it purposefully let the emperor go so it could bring back the netherstones to it, and a lot of mind flayers are dead at the ship in the cinematic (even before the dragons attack) and it's pretty obvious that the one we assume is the emperor has something to do with it

[@XetoKiyaba]

@makiiavely well, he states after coming in contact with the prism, he regained freedom. which lines up with them abducting shadowheart. maybe he was lying but if he WAS on the ship it does make sense?

[@eddiefury]

When the Prince says the Honor guard could have freed him he's wrong. Only the hammer could have freed him. And you didn't possess the hammer earlier when you had that fight. So no, Orpheus. We had to kill your honor guard.

[@kometax]

Yup, I wish we could have ask him to elaborate XD

[@hazekaze]

No. The hammer is simply designed to free these infernal/Orpheus chain, but not the only thing that can free him. Think of it as a master key to a lock. It’s not a designed key but could literally open everything. The guard did break the cage’s first defense and very close to the second one. I think they will succeed.

[@kometax]

@@hazekaze Wasn't that orb spell put by the Emperor?

[@Blindluck92]

Honestly, in the cutscene before you fight them, his honor guard were doing a pretty good job of cracking the barrier with their bare hands. *We* need the hammer, but they didn't.

[@ElGordo94]

Wait Is Raphael the only one to tell us that only the hammer can free him? The hammer that only he has and tries to exchange with us for the crown he wants.

[@callumreilly9107]

Emperor: "I never lied to you!" Tav: "You witheld information at every turn." Emperor: "It's true that I witheld reality... and lied about Orpheus and his guards... and lied about myself... but it's just cos that's how mindflayers be :3"

[@Lleq3]

umm i have to lie??? not letting me lie is crossing my boundaries and thats toxic so??

[@ardenture]

He has the same mentality as my ex

[@callumreilly9107]

@@ardenture You deserve much better than that. I hope you achieve the happiness you strive for!

[@M.L.official]

It was more about not telling you because of plot convenience. Vlaakith didn't tell you she wants Orpheus dead in the prism because it occurred too early in the game. Then the emperor says "if she didn't tell you, neither will I because you're not ready"

[@callumreilly9107]

@@M.L.official "Because of plot structure" is not something that should be considered when thinking about character motivations. It renders the whole conversation moot. Might as well just go "it betrayed you because the devs wanted a cool boss fight".

[@eoncontroversial1614]

Bros so afraid of the prince he fumbled hard and sided with the thing he been trying to avoid😂

[@PirvateerKurei]

I've seen that happen to a lot of smart people. You're so smart that you end up being STUPID. Like, we have other options Emperor! (As someone who does not like Gale)

[@AndyMacster]

Ye. To be fair, Orpheus is hella fucking threatening to anything that is proud of being a Mind Flayer.

[@XXSteel]

You guys really think Orpheus would have forgiven the emperor for keeping him enslaved and killing his people? Even if they made a temporary alliance Orpheus would probably kill him after

[@thephoenix4093]

@@PirvateerKurei emperor's choice was dip or die. orpheus was enslaved by him for an insanely long time, with the emperor constantly killing his people when they came to try to rescue him. what's more, he's obviously gonna be recognized as a species that is at war against his people, so he's prob gonna kill him on sight regardless.

[@kristinekiefer3516]

If you break Orpheus's chains before talking to the Emperor, he's like "im sick of your BS, peace out" lmao

[@FredtheUndead]

"But I -am- a Mind Flayer. Illusion is my language. Just as words and actions are yours." Yes, Emperor, telling someone "I'm a Liar. I lie, its what I do" is the surest path to trust when asking someone to trust you.

[@Sweatopod98]

Meanwhile Omeluun being nice and trustworthy, genuinely trying to help us multiple times Not even hiding his real identity in front of people because he is just chill like that

[@seeinred]

@@Sweatopod98and also suggesting you save other prisoners before him. Ironically, the worst part of the "Emperor" seems to be his original identity as Balduran. huh.

[@Lardo137]

​@@seeinredFrom what I heard, even as far back as BG1 Balduran was never made out to be a great hero or selfless person. He was always more of a "conquering and raiding" type.

[@seeinred]

@@Lardo137 Yeah, i've read on that. I would say the BG3 Balduran and his original vision don't differ that much, at least in the spirit of character department.

[@tairrendaly5855]

I really feel like we could convince the emperor to let us free the prince without him running to the netherbrain. (Might have been easier if you were friendly and/or started a romance with them) Once freed we could convince Orpheous not to attack the emperor because (if nothing else) theres a bigger threat to deal with and we NEED a illithid on our side to attack the netherbrain. I feel the persuasion dialog to convince the emperor would be something like; "let ME be the shield this time."

[@kibuki91]

I feel as though Orpheus would be far less forgiving towards the Emperor. Yes, you (potentially) kidnapped a Gith egg, yes, you aided in the deaths of his honor guard... and yes, you're partial Illithid. However, most of that would not have happened if not for the Emperor. And if it were up to the Emperor, Orpheus would not have been freed at all, but consumed. I'm doubtful even Orpheus would be so forgiving, nor would he trust the Emperor with the destruction of the Netherbrain.

[@xTheOneToSaveUsAllx]

Gosh that would be lovely.

[@leila13dnd]

Dude that would be so epic.

[@axo4383]

It's possible this is sometype of cut content. Possibly similar to Halsin and Minthara with Grove and Goblins. You can only choose either bug out to choose both?

[@iKrivetko]

I'm honestly tired of people going BUT HE WOULD KILL THE EMPEROR ON SIGHT. Seriously, he didn't become a prince by being a moron: he knows as well as the Emperor that they need a mind flayer to succeed. Quote from Voss, verbatim: "The Prince of the Comet aches for githyanki liberation more than he abhors ghaik".

[@ManubibiWalsh]

“The Netherbrain calculates every possible move at once” but it’s not calculating how I can just drink a haste potion, misty step/fly my way around to the crown, cast the protection globe over myself while I cast a spell and break the protection over the brain before 5 turns have passed? I guess the brain just underestimates me way too much.

[@SpinTheWords]

I really hope they add more to this option. It’s weird that they address you like you became a ghaik. I will not sacrifice myself, my Karlach or Orpheus.

[@Praetorian349]

Yeah, the visual glitch is odd, but beyond that cinematic no one acts like you transformed, so seems to work. :)

[@InkWarlock333]

I hope that there’s a like, a high Persuasion DC option to free Orpheus and work with The Emperor. Like, the Emperor (if anybody) should be the one to sacrifice himself for Baldurs Gate. It’d be poetic since he founded it, and will defend it to the end and at least have some form of redemption considering his atrocities against Stelmane and betraying Ansur. This would be the best ending, no one becomes a Mindflayer, the Prince of The Comet and Gale live and the city heals with Duke Ravengard’s watch.

[@lokiserpentem8534]

@@InkWarlock333 tbf he didn't exactly betray ansur. Ansur tried to kill him in his sleep

[@kibuki91]

@@lokiserpentem8534 The Emperor, who has lied to you, is the one that informs you that Ansur tried to kill him in his sleep... But peep this: Why would Balduran be sleeping in a ceremonial crypt? Why would Ansur's body be in such a state it's in if he'd snuck up on Balduran and died in a subsequent battle? Ansur is furious at Balduran's betrayal when you meet him, and does tell you he tried to kill Balduran as he was an illithid, but, the actual circumstances surrounding the battle are up in smoke. Balduran, who is keen on manipulating you for your aid, would not be honest about a single thing (He also lied about his relationship with Stelmane and the others), and tries to convince you that Ansur doesn't even exist, it's a myth as you enter the Shrine. He's keen on you not finding out his true nature via Ansur. The evidence kinda points to Ansur telling the truth about Balduran's betrayal after becoming Illithid.

[@lokiserpentem8534]

@@kibuki91 ansur literally admits to it Also, it seems implied he had a legit partnership with her BEFORE the enthrallment He doesnt lie to the player he just leaves out information

[@mm-fg1xc]

The Emporer proves he has no soul when he joins the Netherbrain.

[@65firered]

That was a move out of pure desperation. Remember all mind flayers are soulless, no exceptions. The moment that clues you in outside of several other conversations in the game, is when he shows you truth of his relationship with Stelmane.

[@sagittariusa7662]

Gale: "Unleash me!" The Emperor: "No. Join me." Tav: "No." The Emperor: "Bye." Orpheus: "What... what just happened?" Gale: "Unleash me!" Orpheus: "No. I don't even know who you are." Gale: "Damn it. Will someone please unleash me?"

[@jaffarebellion292]

Gale: "Kaboooooooom?" Tav: "Yes, Gale. Kaboom."

[@benjammin5252]

Gale: what to do? Direct me.

[@flakdampler11]

Very nice, I didn’t know you could avoid transforming ANYONE and save Orpheus!

[@BreadCancer]

You need to blow up gale for that to work, otherwise someone needs to turn in order to cast the spell on the crown.

[@PauloGarcia-sp5ws]

@@BreadCancer But its gale. He's like the least likable character besides maybe Wyll, who is just UNBERABLY one dimensional.

[@BreadCancer]

@@PauloGarcia-sp5ws I disagree. Gale's great. If he's the least likable it's only because everyone else is even better.

[@zelorig8887]

@@PauloGarcia-sp5wsleast likeable for you, He’s chill.

[@riffgroove]

No, Minsk is the least likeable character. The only thing worse than an idiot is an annoying idiot.

[@Talwyn22]

Thanks for this. It's a very good ending and fitting as in my playthrough, Gale had the conversation with Mystra at the temple and said he was going to be the hero of the hour. The only downside to this ending is that you don't get to personally kill the Emperor in combat.

[@chizhang4369]

I have not yet tested this, but seems that you can start the battle against the brain together but during it, you can at any chance, click on Gale’s orb button and start the cut scene of Gale blow up the brain still(he will say I think so it seems we still need to do this after all, and then teleport you away), I’m sure we can at least take down the emperor before that

[@GhostWriter520]

Meanwhile, Wyll is just like "What the fuck is going on..."

[@TootsyBootsy]

It's interesting how Wyll says he is willing to sacrifice his very soul for the people of Baldur's Gate, yet its Karlach that is willing to make the sacrifice in the end, not Wyll.

[@Infiltrator_]

@@TootsyBootsy To be fair he kinda already did sacrifice his soul to help people.

[@biomegnome8764]

@@TootsyBootsy Wyll still doesn't technically own his soul yet at that point lol

[@TootsyBootsy]

@@biomegnome8764 That wouldn't matter as the soul gets obliterated when turning into a mindflayer and Mizora is in no position to stop him. It fits his personality of being all talk though i will say that.

[@96Haron96]

It's weird, but we have Omeluum, why not call him up without sacrificing anyone?

[@agirlnamedmichael1670]

Lots of folks have asked for this option. The argument is that Omeluum wouldn't be able to resist the Netherbrain this close to her.

[@96Haron96]

@@agirlnamedmichael1670 Then how does the protagonist in the guise of a "squid" do it? He's basically just been "born" and that doesn't stop him from confronting the brain.

[@agirlnamedmichael1670]

​@@96Haron96 I would assume because you have his protection. Remember Orpheus literally says "You will be the one ghaik I salute instead of slaughter". Orpheus would not protect Omeluum

[@96Haron96]

@@agirlnamedmichael1670 It's just that the developer didn't give us complete freedom. The Illithid has to be, and it's a must.What's also strange is that you can't convince the emperor not to kill Orpheus. Although when we choose Orpheus' side, the emperor leaves and that's when things get interesting. The Emperor takes the stones and kills Orpheus, why? Because if I choose Orpheus' side and become an illithid myself, I don't need to kill him anymore, and the emperor just chooses the side of the brain. How does that work? That's what I don't like.

[@agirlnamedmichael1670]

@@96Haron96 It's been widely discussed and the Emperor is(mistakenly) under the impression that you'll fail without him, and since he "broke free" from the Elder Brain he thinks he'll be able to do it again at a later time...he doesn't even realize that the Elder Brain ALLOWED him to "break free". She needed him to think he was free so that she could use him to get the pieces set up to gain her own freedom. He can't see past his own ego to realize he had been played. I think most people agree that he was unreasonable to bail on us, but it does make sense once you start looking at it a bit deeper.

[@devynn7x]

But Gale dies 😢 We need a happy ending for everyone, no transformations and no emperor.

[@elmarucham75]

This is the best ending for gale he lives happy with mistra after this but you need to play the origin character to see it

[@harlequin5664]

going back to his abuser isn't necessarily a happy ending... @@elmarucham75

[@elenalizabeth]

Like if you could use Omeluum. He is already illithid and so why couldn’t he be of use? Like surely after saving him and because he likes this realm, then he would want to help 🤔

[@dorkydragon5055]

I like it personally. Taking a good path isn't easy, sometimes it's muddy uncomfortable and painful.

[@YelMalanta]

But his soul doesn't die, unlike an Illithid transformation.

[@nelsonelloi3770]

You don't really need Laezel in your party, all you have to do is receive the tadpole from the Emperor and then click the attack button before the part of the dialogue where he eats Orpheus's brain

[@honestbenny]

huh, nice discovery. But you still need Gale in party, yes?

[@nelsonelloi3770]

@@honestbenny if you want to actually beat the game without anyone transforming, yes.

[@NeonRiff]

This ending just makes so much more sense than the others. It seems strange that there’s not even a persuasion check you can attempt to get Orpheus to trust you that the orb will work.

[@justusdaniel3913]

the best ending possible is to let Orpheus become mind flayer, Let Laezel have the gith egg in her inventory (important) convince Orpheus to not kill himself,. you will have one of the best endings in the epilogue.

[@Praetorian349]

If you check out my epilogue video that comes from this method you might see it’s quite similar. :P

[@lokiserpentem8534]

I felt like having orpheus die was a better ending, He wants to continue his mothers dream of conquering the multiverse. I saved him and killed him when he was a mindflayer. Though One cool thing I noticed. Lae'zel can still join the rebellion in the astral sea if you side with the emporer. I'm assuming its because I passed my persuasion check with Voss. But she can have the same ending regardless of who you side with. At first she's pissed but in the party she talks about missing you and your friendship and that soon shell be able to come back and adventure with us again

[@JKDavitz]

⁠​⁠@@lokiserpentem8534I don’t think you’re simply trading one gith tyrant for another. The epilogue indicates that the Orpheus side of the githyanki is entering peace talks with the githzerai

[@lokiserpentem8534]

@@JKDavitz it was an alliance between the rebels and githzerai. It might end up not the case, but I have a hard time trusting it based on his conversation with voss in my playthrough about completing the one sky

[@ccvv1119]

Oh ok I’ll try it in my next playthrough I let Orpheus become the mind flayer and honestly I think it was great for Laezel

[@luciapitti1722]

He always lied by omission, I will not tell why and how, since it would be a massive spoiler, but there's a reason why none of his allies still live and one of them was literally the one that freed him from the collective.

[@exrhythm]

THIS!!! gahh i am so tired of people not understanding why the emperor ditches you when it's so obvious after you put the manipulative pieces together

[@KollbjornYT]

Spoil it for me please.

[@luciapitti1722]

@@exrhythm exactly, the only values that he sees in you, are the ones that you provide to him, while with the companions, you share the burden and you care for each others, even the red comet is actually more an ally in those 5 minutes than the emperor in the whole adventure and he admits that he's forced to work with you to defeat the netherbrain, but when the emperor would have ditched you, the comet fights with you. Like... when you are in front of the emperor's ex, he goes like "yeah, he's really mad that we work togheter... by the way by by" or when the guards try to free the comet he's like "yeah, this is my battle to fight, so I'm going to use some weak charm spells, while you do the heavy lifting"

[@luciapitti1722]

@@KollbjornYT Duke Stelmane, was killed by the cult, but rendered disabled by the Emperor's visits to keep the woman enthralled (he confesses it if you upset him). Ansur was his former lover and freed him from the colony, tried to cure him and according to the emperor tried to kill him once he (Ansur) lost all hopes for a cure and I have all the reasons to belive that the emperor is lying. The emperor's former identity is Balduran and he was a manipulative POS also back then, since he says all over again the 4 pillars ( justice, courage, insight and strenght) and then leaves his lover to go to adventures because he actually careS aboute fame and adventures, which blindly lead him to moonrise tower where he got caught by ilithids and turned into one of them (so much for insight). For unknown reasons history does not remember about Ansur. If you are nothing but extremely polite, while rejecting him, he goes confesses what he did to the Duke and he says that tav should be grateful that he changed his tactics, with a not so veiled threat. He hides that Orfeus is the power in the artefact. He doesn't say that he was formely known as Balduran, yes that Balduran, the founder of Baldur's gate (a bit egocentric to call a city after yourself, because the city already existed, he just expanded it). He appears to Minsc as Dynaheir, Minsc's former ''witch'', for the traditions of his birthplace, he was supposed to protect her and he was really affectionate to her, I would actually say that he loved her and, she died to save him and the emperor took the semblances, not as she was, but as she would be if she was still alive, which caused him to cower into a corner, until the emperor said what Dynaheir would have never said to Minsc, she '' said what I wanted to hear, not what she always said, which is a variant of stupid'' and throught your interaction with Minsc you actually see how much that hurt him, he's not himself when he recounts the encounter and he's not very willing to talk about it and that, alongside with the last sentence that Ansur spoke before he collapses dead ("Balduran what have you done") in a sad and exausted voice really cemented my hate for the emperor.

[@pryordevine3855]

Considering this video is from the end of the game, I think spoilers are warranted

[@jeremyjealousy]

Wow. Theres truly not one option without one consequence.

[@meganw7821]

As of 7/2024 this still works.

[@kenwaytr]

I choose the same options but there is no speak (10:28) between Gale and Orpheus, 5.th option too. I didn't go the Sorcerous Sundries building with Gale, could this be the reason ?

[@BlondeNordic]

"I have been your salvation from the very beginning" Ah no, Orpheus has because Opheus is the one protecting you as well. Alone you would fall to the big bad brain. Gaslighting and manipulation if he or it didn't need you and your merry band of misfits he /it would of had no use for you. :)

[@Rekkenze]

minthara: oh you want me to become a mindflayer? No questions asked fam, lemme snort that shit.

[@ocping]

Honestly, couldn't Larian have allowed the ultimate Lawful Good ending by allowing the player to mediate between Emperor and freed-Orpheus? The logic behind the Emperor's motivation is that once he's out of the prism, he will come under the Absolute's control. Then just persuade Orpheus to extend his power to prevent that? As for an allied illithid to use the netherstones, the Emperor could've done it. This would've resolved all sides' concerns, destroyed the Absolute and the Grand Design while serving Vlaakith her just desserts. The only problem would be Karlach's heart still continuing to burn itself out; might've been a post-ending sidequest to Avernus for a permanent solution.

[@Tristyn_Waterman]

yeah I really don't get why we can't make the argument to Emperor that "if you are being honest with us, and we really do need an illithid, then Orpheus will have no choice but to work with you"

[@ukaszrybkowski2769]

I feel like the Emperor is secretly evil and his plan from the get go was to rule the world. So even if you managed to convince him, he would try to take over the world.

[@stevenpedersen1505]

Just a heads up to anyone seeing this video now, got to the top of the brain and it gave me 4 turns until someone HAD to become illithid.

[@Steve00245]

Yeah, I've just found that now, which I'm pretty upset about, guess Lae'zel is gonna have to take the hit

[@Praetorian349]

You don’t fight the Brain, you use Gale to self destruct and skip the fight. No transformation.

[@kazicam]

the heartbreak in lae'zels voice hurt my soul bro

[@zombieboyfiend]

Voss: My sword is yours. Me: Yea... I got that from you in chapter 1. lol

[@bigtimetimmyjim6486]

🤣

[@zylokun]

The Emperor: I have spent this entire time wanting to kill the brain Also the Emperor: SCREW YOU GUYS! I'll just go be the BBEG myself!

[@jaffarebellion292]

7:00 "Only a ghaik deals in absolutes. I will do what I must"

[@cyberspectre8675]

Laezel: "I will not forget what you did here today." Tav: "I will."

[@va1tiel]

The Gale part at 10:28 didn't proc for me but following from 10:58 onwards still worked! Thanks so much!

[@SatansLtlBaby]

I also didn’t have gale speak up during the Orpheus interaction but I also didn’t get the speech option either so this didn’t work for me!! I had to choose myself or Orpheus or karlach who was also with me. Perhaps that’s why?

[@_mirmir_000]

@@SatansLtlBabysame for me🥲 maybe they fixed that? Thats my guess…

[@mjr8888]

This is the only part of the game I hate. The Emperor just ditching everything because you want to free Orpheus? That's bull. You should be able to convince the Emperor and Orpheus to work along side each other to stop the Netherbrain, and therefore no one needs to change. Don't get me wrong, Orpheus has every right to be pissed that he was held captive like that (though him saying you should've surrendered to the honor guard and let them kill you makes me roll my eyes as he still has that "I am above you" trait all of his kind has), but I bet he would understand working with the Emperor to stop the NB is worth putting aside things for the moment. Then, after killing the brain, you can have a moment where Orpheus either kills the Emperor for keeping them imprisoned, or with a high CHA check, let the Emperor go.

[@Hailoow]

yeah like, my 22 charisma bard has told endless bosses and mini bosses alike to off themselves why can't they also convince them to work together? seems pretty tame in comparison

[@Chadius_Thundercock]

@@Hailoow exactly it makes no sense. I have the charisma to tell a werewolf to kill a group of people, it’s pack and itself with my fucking mind but convincing a guy to not join an enemy he’s been fighting for a long time is too much? The writing in act 3 for the main story is so bad and rushed. It’s weird cause the astarion and raphael quests are fantastic, but they couldn’t keep that same quality for the main part of the game

[@pieterlindeque7798]

The issue is Emperor doesn't really care about stopping the brain. He cares about his own survival and power. He couldn't care less about anything other than his own desires. He wants to create his own mindflayer empire and you're just a pawn towards that goal. He ditches you because you don't give him what he wants. The brain is just an obstacle in his way. If he doesn't get his say he couldn't care less about what happens to it.

[@dancinginfernal]

He doesn't trust you. He thinks you're incapable by this point, and he's not going to wager on anything that isn't a sure bet. He also thinks he knows far more than you. So when you choose to double-down on Orpheus, he doesn't even consider the possibility you're right. He just decides he'll wait until he can escape again and try to kill the brain at the next opportunity that arises.

[@Solitude1990]

It's in character with who he is. In the dialoque he admits a liar and deceitful is who he is and he can't help it. Him saying saying "fuck it, I'm going back" is within his very selfish character

[@Jrockk999]

I really wish there was some option to convince the Emperor and Orpheus to work together.

[@Foodisgood]

My gith ending worked like this. I romanced Lae'zel we went off with Orpheus to fight for gith freedom and Karlach was turned into a mindflayer so no one died and she didn't return to Arvenus.

[@EstebanBrenesV]

Do mind that that is not karlach but her tadpole with her memories

[@neptunviro]

Well her soul is destroyed. Congratz

[@ashadsiddiqui3226]

Yeah this works but it’s really weird how the scene is bugged. They just needed one line to fix it. After Orpheus says the whole “ah you were testing me as I tested you, you are honorable” line, he should have said he was testing you and now trusts you and the wizard. But before this there need to be a line or scene where you show Orpheus the supremes tadpole from the emperor. Adding these two things would make this make so much more sense. That and removing the part where you look illithid in the scene.

[@knyazcchanel9440]

For all those who thinks that Emperor is good guy you are so mistaken just remember what he is saying if after obtaining 2 netherstone you say that you want to kill brain he will tell you that is not a wise decision, he is just seeking power.

[@jonathanhibberd9983]

"Your powers of manipulation aee quite something." My guy, seriously? This coming from you?

[@MoonsongReverb]

I wish there was an option to convince the Emperor, that keeping Orpheus alive helps everyone. I don’t like sacrificing Karlach to Mindflayerdom, or Gale with the orb either. For Lae’zel seining Orpheus transformed is also bad

[@kibuki91]

Sacc'ing Karlach is now the worst option imo. Before, it was passable as her engine was not able to be fixed, and if not in a romance with her you couldn't convince her to go back to Avernus. But with the new epilogue, you can convince her to go back to Avernus, and later she finds out a solution to her problem that may let her stay in Faerun for good.

[@pugpolice4323]

​@kibuki91 You could always send her and Wyll to Avernus but yeah it's definitely the worst option now imo.

[@oliverlow2474]

Yeah as it’s presented, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. The only reason the Emperor needs to kill Orpheus is so that he can absorb his powers, and then be able to leave the prism and use the stones against the brain. But if you become a mind-flayer instead, and wield the stones yourself… then the Emperor shouldn’t have to leave the prism anymore! Yet somehow one of you is still forced into killing Orpheus.

[@MoonsongReverb]

@@oliverlow2474 Yeah, right? Then again, because of this I rather sacrifice an Npc than any of my companions Becoming a Mindflayer yourself, means that once you get close to an elderbrain without that powerful help, you are screwed. The elderbrain can control a Mindflayer and then you become a danger to your possible partner and everyone. So I never picked that option Who knows what the developers come up with for maybe any updates or addons. ^^

[@1SaG]

Easy solution: Don't bring Lae'zel to the final battle. In one of my play-throughs, I failed that last DC with her asking her to stay (after the battle is over), so she only appeared at the after-party as a projection, but sounded like she didn't hold any grudges against Tav. Last play-through I rolled a 20 on that last check, so she stayed and was present at the party "for real". Not a huge difference in her attitude, though. I was doing an Honour-run, so I chose the obvious scenario for the final battle and let the Emperor assimilate Orpheus. I also would never want Karlach to turn into a squid, so the only other option I ever chose was to reject the Emperor and let Orpheus grow tentacles. He seemed quite happy to do it, too.. :D

[@TigerRoshard1986]

Classic Lae'zel, so quick to judge before you have an opportunity to show your true intent. She's the definition of a hot head, and got herself caught by Orin, but she's soooo tough. Lol. Damn it Lae'zel.

[@eleanorgreywolfe5142]

"You still don't trust me" Bro you're literally an ililthid

[@yharnamiyhill787]

It's unlike the Emperor for wanting to get re-entralled by the brain...

[@elifittz]

Well if you choose to Free Orpheus, you put him in a predicament. He's fully convinced Orpheus will slay him once freed, so the choice is between certain death and a life of slavery to the brain. He chooses to live no matter what, and believes that at least with the Netherbrain he'll have a chance at surviving Orpheus' wrath. Unfortunately for him, I killed him anyway.

[@PirvateerKurei]

Instructions unclear, i turned the wjole party and the world into loathsome Ghaik

[@MA-nl4ow]

This still works as of patch 7. Just tried it. Only annoying thing in one scene shows that i am Illithid even though i am not. Still think this is best ending, cause Gale keeps his soul and goes back to Mystra.

[@savinkov3584]

I wish they would add Emperor and Orpheus ally ending

[@shaktosh524]

Highly doubt it. After the emperor abused his powers, killed his guards and kept him imprisoned, there is no way Orpheus was going to let him live.

[@savinkov3584]

@@shaktosh524 So let the dice roll, they can add high diff persuasion roll

[@MrVirus9898]

@@savinkov3584 Sorry diplomancers, at some point you need to roll up your sleeves and make decisions.

[@ThusIsBrad]

Youd think Larian would have patched that cutscene glitch. Thanks for posting this vid, i knew there was some way to avoid becoming illithid.

[@PongLenis-zw8kv]

„Yo Balduran or whatever the heck your name is now, I really do not want to kill the gith prince. How about we free him and gale nukes the elderbrain? Until that is done you stay here, then you can leave once gale did it, and I will free the prince“ Why is that not an option

[@lordsanto88]

You can also get this without Laezel, choose the attack option before the Emperor assimilate Orpheus. This is what I did last week in a honor mode run where Laezel was not a main in my party composition

[@neptunviro]

But how did you avoid the final fight?

[@lordsanto88]

@@neptunviro when you choose the attack option there won't be a fight, the Emperor takes that as a betrayal and runs away to join the netherbrain. After that you just need to bring Gale to the long staircase and you'll see the cutscene

[@neptunviro]

@@lordsanto88 oh I see

[@silvertail7131]

My first run, Karlach offered so, I ran with it. Regretted it. So, so frustrating they decided to force this needless choice in. If it made sense it would be less frustrating, but it just doesn't. The emperor throws away their own objectives and goals on the basis of... you won't do things entirely their way. Our other friendly illithid just... was out that day, I guess. The awful fallout ending where the character immune to radiation refuses to enter the irradiated room because the story demands sacrifice comes to mind... but at least that got fixed. The amount of random stuff you can do through persuasion in this game and you can't even roll for it. The problem, is it's presented as an irreconcilable divergence of paths, when it's not. The simplest answer is the emperor is just evil, and always was... not without evidence, suggesting the transformation changes one's being in a way where you cannot retain yourself. Meaning you have to force that on one of the characters you've come to know. This is the start of the grand finale, the big fight with dragons and hordes of foes and allies gathering to the fight. Why insist, enforce, the player enters it with a sour taste in the mouth? How did that one get through the drafting phase? This feels like a "kill your darlings" moment, drop the idea that there needs to be a sacrifice, it doesn't suit the story. The player is being forced to fail the objective they've been playing towards for tens of hours.

[@1SaG]

The Emperor abandoning the party, claiming he "has no choice but to join the Netherbrain" doesn't make any sense to me. This is in stark contrast to everything he's ever stated (and done) during the entire story - most importantly it will let him fall back under the control of the very enemy he had been fighting all this time and make him a part in the destruction of the whole region, perhaps the entire world. IMO, he had always been someone who'd approach problems logically and rationally - and this whole "if you're not going to do it my way, I'll turn on you and join our enemies"-twist seems like the very antithesis of logic and rationality to me. More like the action of a rejected lover/friend, or something. Thing is: I don't see why he would have to reject the idea of Orpheus getting freed and on top of that why switching sides would be his "only option" if Orpheus is set free. Him staying neutral in the fight ahead would be an option or perhaps him committing suicide. Or perhaps trying to work out a compromise that would allow Orpheus to live. I mean: There *is* the option of turning Orpheus into a Mind Flayer and letting him handle the stones - I don't see why this wouldn't also have been an option without the Emperor betraying the party.

[@a_ghost5950]

You can't beat the game. At the end it still makes you take the tadpole at the top of the brain.

[@Infiltrator_]

I wish there’s an option in the future where the emperor doesn’t abandon you but I understand why he does it lol. I just can’t see turning my Tav into a mindflayer or Karachi not to mention getting Gale to blow himself up. I’ll always choose Orpheus to turn lol.

[@andrewtover9676]

I tried this and Orpheus still changed me into a mind flayer

[@ignarskjolvjentski7809]

You’re an absolute legend 🙏

[@Cyprus.themochaccino]

Let’s remember that at one point the Emporer tries to rizz you up by summoning you with his shirt off😂😂😂

[@Fawstah]

I did this, and it turned me fully on my honor mode playthrough

[@Praetorian349]

That's irritating. I just finished my honour mode run and did this method again, worked like a charm. :) Meant I didn't have to fight the Netherbrain fight and risk my run, so I took the coward's way out. ;)

[@clearskiesastro1028]

While you can go into the brain fight doing this trick, you can't use the stones to face the final stage of brain fight without having a Illithid in group, so doing this gets you stuck unable to end the game.

[@s-ebbyy841]

As soon as i found out who the emperor was i trusted them.

[@Enclave.]

I managed to stumble on this ending myself as well, convinced a friend of mine to replay so he could get this ending as well since it's mostly the ending he wanted for his character :P

[@neptunviro]

Why Orpheus would be open to become an ilithid himself? Omg. Whats the point in the choice betweeen an emperor ilithid, an orpheus ilithid, tav ilithid or another member of the group ilithid? Theres no choice there. Why cant we figure it out how to use the stones without an ilithid? We have a powerfull group that killed a demon and have gods at our side, a random ilithid as ally, but we cant figure it out without loosing the game. We cant finish the game without the worms/tadpoles and the manipulation we despise the most. Theres no victory at the end, you just cant trully win Bg3. I mean, how am I suppose to think that I saved something like "the world" or "the city" if I cant even save me or the people I cared for till that moment?

[@DaeZey]

Honestly this feels a lot like the Paarthurnax Choice, like there are other, reasonable options and the game's just saying no. (Not quite as bad as P)

[@FinestFantasyVI]

Omg i had the same thought. Granted i just use console to save the best dragon

[@nuclearnadal281]

Bros character looks like medieval gigachad

[@24oathkeeper]

Sadly, on a Laezel origin playthrough there is no interruption when the emperor goes to absorb Orpheus

[@jeroenpreder9785]

You can give her an owlbear egg in place of the gith egg. It's quite funny.

[@lieselstrick]

Hmmm, okay. This strategy didn't work out for me. Romanced Gale and told him not to performe the new year's eve firework and stay alive. So he didn't offer it with orpheus, just in the previous conversation with the emperor. And since I already have the tadpole, there is just the question orpheus or Tav. And if I just send the emperor away "don't bother me, let me free orpheus", free the Prince and don't offer to become a mindflayer, Tav and prince start the conversation and he tells us to make a decision who should become a mind flayer. You can ask for a break for decisionmaking and Gale tells you privat that there would be still the orb and he'd rather die than let tav becoming a mind flayer.... 🥴 This strategy starts waaaay earlier in the game...

[@musicman9263]

I loved BG3 but the ending is so ass. You know your beloved character that you've put 100+ hours into and being the best possible hero? Yeah, either you turn yourself into an illithid (destroying your soul), let the Emperor kill Orpheus, or turn Karlach into an illithid in order to defeat the Netherbrain. Seriously?! These characters are conically some of the strongest in the material plane and we somehow can't manage to luck out an ending where no one dies or becomes a literally souless monster???

[@NovaCascade]

I really wish they had done better with being able to choose either Emperor or Orpheus early on. Even though ultimately Emperor does want to save Faerun, the way he goes about it is the most fucked up way imaginable. Manipulations, half-truths, forcing things upon you and acting like the victim whenever you disagree with his actions. Not to mention he'd rather turn himself back to the hivemind than not be the one controlling the situation. It just made for such an annoying story to go through when you constantly have someone telling you everything you want to do is wrong. He feels like the DM wanted to play a character too in the campaign. I wish we could have killed the Emperor as soon as we could and free Orpheus then have a stronger plot with Lae'zel and her people to help us save Baldur's Gate.

[@kometax]

Yup, devs missed such perfect opportunity for branching the story at the beggining of Act 3. Instead of "trust Emperor or die" it should be "work with Emperor or honor guard form now on" choice.

[@neptunviro]

The problem is that the Emperor does not want to save Faerun. He never did, even as a human. He only wanted greatness, thats why he repeatedly says that he saw potention and ascention in his ilithid transformation. But I get it, it would be better and satisfying to him to blow himself instead, saving a city that was founded by a power hunger, not a hero.

[@sauracifer3557]

well someone still dies sad there isnt a perfect ending

[@kruszewskimikoaj1200]

Technically if you free Orpheus then it can end well both for him and the Emperor. We kill the Netherbrain and Emp is free.

[@marceldanton1774]

I really wait larian make one final with emperor e Orpheus together in fight will be awesome.

[@jarednewman7823]

This seems to be broken, as even if Gale is with you, he won't speak up when talking to Orpheus. So it's once again you, Karlach, or Orpheus.

[@downwhere]

If you do this option, Gale HAS to blow up the netherbrain right? Because you don’t actually have a mind flayer in your team?

[@DecScape]

I wish there was an option for Lae'Zel as a companion to sacrifice herself for her Prince. Especially when she goes on about not being his burden to bare. Sorry he's not my Prince.

[@WhatBigClawsYouHave]

Damn guess I should have done Gales quest, I only have the option of becoming the mindflayer and then I pop back into my Drow form 🤔😂

[@zah2156]

SMH I left my hammer back in camp smfh now I’m looking at Orpheus stuck in the orb smfh

[@jaredbremer941]

So how does this work when you have to use the stones in the final fight

[@kevinhobbs6064]

This is the only logical choice in the game, along with letting karlach be the last illithid, protected by Orpheus himself. She won’t be hunted anymore, is powerful enough to resist zariel, doesn’t have to go back to avernus, and won’t explode and die. Balduran has fallen as was so easy to abandon his city, screw him, orpheus is a necessary heroic force in the astral plane and is way better in the final fight than the emperor was lmao.

[@Neithie]

Nooo don't you dare

[@rath9089]

So on my first run, Lae'zel died at the dragon encounter at the mountain pass.. cause I literally didn't know where to find her, I somehow missed her being caged by the tieflings and when I got to her, she was killed by the kith'rak... so ultimately by the end I sided with the emperor cause.. I had no reason to side with orpheus lol

[@arnaudvanlichtervelde8022]

Same for me, but you can resurrect her ! ;-)

[@marlenecarrasco8018]

OK NOW WHAT? when u get to the brain u still need to wat it

[@sithslime]

So you have to pick these specific dialogue options to have everyone stay normal? I usually just had orphius do it because I didn’t really care for him too much.

[@Praetorian349]

Haha, true enough, but I couldn’t upset Lae’zel by dooming her Space Jesus. :P You just need Lae’zel and Gale to be in the party, and the key dialogue options are telling the Emperor you will turn to a Mindflayer, then saying you’ll do it later (so that you have the tadpole in your inventory for if you don’t use Gale’s Orb at the Brain). Then you side with Lae’zel to free Orpheus and tell Orpheus to trust Gale’s plan. He’ll accept his “assurance” without you actually properly turning ingame because you have the option to transform with the tadpole. Then just go through with Gale’s plan.

[@sithslime]

@@Praetorian349 wow, one of my playthroughs was a monk chick and I thought I’d be able to bypass becoming ilithid so the monk became ilithid then sacrificed herself not to be ilithid anymore. Had her with karlach so they both died. A tragic yet bitter sweet end for that character, at least they both now have each other in the afterlife 🤷‍♂️

[@sunnyhill7919]

@@Praetorian349 yeah, but then Gale dies. I like Orpheus much less than I like Gale.

[@rickdiculousyo9320]

I did this today. I thought this was a glitch and would be able to use the netherstone in the last fight, nooope. Murdered everyone but couldn't use the stones. So reloaded and had gale do what he had to. I would like to believe in the final fight my tav tried to turn into a illithid but gale decided to sacrifice himself. Next run I'll just have orpheus do it

[@JuviaLockser1]

I want this outcome WITHOUT sacrificing Gale. Seems unfair. Choosing not to sacrifice anyone at all in any way should be a choice, even if they make it harder to achieve.

[@jessblues848]

you can't save everyone

[@JuviaLockser1]

@@jessblues848 I know that. I just wish I could. Except the emperor. Eff him.

[@redskady7411]

This just goes to show how much it sucks to become illitih. No one wants to be it.

[@eli.sinell]

I wish there was fight against that queen too…

[@hashirakun5386]

If the emperor keep her humanoid form, i would've side with her no doubt, but from act 3 to ending he always using thay freeky tantacle form

[@ramondejesus65]

Laezel is easily one of my favorite characters. I kind of regret cheating on her with the She-Devil 😅 Having her on anything other than Githyanki armor feels weird to me lol

[@Pottan23]

You mean to tell me I had to choose between keeping Lae'zel from taking Orpheus place as leader of the rebellion against Vlaakith and watching her fly away on the back of a red dragon because "I will turn into a mindflayer" didn't actually mean I will turn into a mindflayer? God fucking dammit Larian

[@coldsteelblue7275]

Just copied this frame for frame & word for word, but Galr never said anything during Orpheus's dialogue, still, I was able to offer myself up & the rest progressed as with this vid

[@trisst9370]

It depends if you pushed gale to blowing himself up during the earlier parts of his quest line. You can give him hope or tell him to do it. Only then will he offer himself, otherwise he wants to live and defy Mystra.

[@coldsteelblue7275]

@@trisst9370 interesting, in another pt,I discouraged him from blowing himself up & I had to pass a persuasion check for him not to do it, sometimes I wonder if it's random, I still managed to get the ending this time though, but I had to pass a dc 25 check to get him to go ahead, ah well

[@mysryuza]

You know what I realized? After Patch 7, we have a new Mizora affair cutscene with Astarion, but not after with The Emperor when Romanced Astarion is in your party??? Oversight?

[@arashimifune2853]

Lol, the Emperor saying "...your powers of manipulation". The audacity! :P Tbh, there should be an option for anyone with a tadpole to turn into an illithid, not just the player, Orpheus or Karlach. How does this method work with the epilogue?

[@chloesantos8637]

It's that I dislike the Emperor, I just never got what his deal was XD

[@TheBagMan0]

I hate that he just leaves defeating the entire point of his entire plot. What a fucking coward

[@onyxhellfire]

Unfortunately, can't do this if you're playing as Lea'zel yourself

[@sygmarvexarion7891]

There is one way. The best ending is Gale sacrificing himself. No other options will do. Gale can die without losing his soul to ceremorphosis, at least.

[@kirkalmeida]

This is the worst part of the whole game why would Orpheus be open to teaming up with a random person who he just met turning into a mindflayer but not team up with the already available mind flayer

[@neptunviro]

Why Orpheus would be open to become an ilithid himself? Omg. Whats the point in choosing an emperor ilithid, orpheus ilithid, tav ilithid or another member of the group ilithid? Theres no choice there.

[@Fem_V]

This is genuinely the ONLY thing i hated about the game. The game teases you with the line "You can take the stone, but i can't let you assimilate him", this option is like a diamond just out of reach, but due to the narrative, you can only choose one or the other, and someone will still be illithid. In a way, I get it, it's the game's way of crafting an ultimate sacrifice in the story, I hate this because this is DnD, persuasion or something at minimum, even if it was a very difficult DC roll to get this outcome existed. However, with the newly added epilogue, Lae'zel's conclusion is satisfying enough for me to forget this, and me sacrificing Gale with his orb felt satisfying enough from a story prespective beacuse it was very well written, and his dialogue in the epilogue was a heavy on heart approach to his end. All in all, i love the writing, but this is one of those times writers salt the story with the sacrifice twist in the narrative.

[@Angel-s4h6d]

is the visual bug of the mind flayer fixed as of patch 6? (right after you tell orpheus u will become illithid)