Is Tomb of Horrors a Good Teaching Module?

[@Joshuazx]

You begin in a tavern THAT'S ON FIRE!

[@BanditsKeep]

Weirdly I’ve seen videos where starting in a tavern and being attacked by a powerful monster is suggested as a start - different tables like different things.

[@solomani5959]

Hah!

[@willmistretta]

Basically, a lot of people played this one "wrong" back in the day by treating it as a regular old adventure to drop into an ongoing campaign for their regular PCs to tackle. I don't blame them for that, really, especially if they were kids at the time, but it does explain some of the negative response. Played as intended, as a one-shot with disposable characters, it's both fun and instructive.

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed!

[@taranthyll]

This is exactly what happened to me. My DM ran this as part of his on-going campaign. Many of us lost our beloved characters we'd been playing all the way through high school. This one is definitely best played as a one-shot.

[@johnscotto5045]

Daniel, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. It’s a great idea, given the right DM and circumstances, to play this as an introductory module. I’m not sure if I would make them low level and Nerf some of the traps or if I would run them as high-level, but with disposable characters and backup characters. Either way, this could be made to be educational and fun. I also completely agree with you that this module has probably been misapplied many times by DM’s, who did not carefully read, Gary Gygax’s forward, which clearly lays out the purpose for which it was designed.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure!

[@KayNeeMan2112]

Daniel, the way you said Funnel while looking directly at the camera... I felt personally attacked lol Great video as usual!

[@BanditsKeep]

😂

[@funwithmadness]

Never played, or even read, Tomb of Horrors, though I've heard about it a million times. You have an interesting perspective on this one. I like it. I certainly agree with the idea that the learned helplessness of more modern play(ers) is not fun. You reminded me of a module I played through as a kid, AD&D, where as a wizard character I was out of spells and had thrown all of my daggers. I had nothing but a small sack full of gold. I used that as an improvised weapon and was able to weaken the big bad boss enough for another character to take him out. The point of the story is... There's always something you can do if you actually use your imagination and interact with the world. If you don't have any ideas, just asking about the immediate room/surroundings gets the brain worms turning.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice

[@taranthyll]

This is really a brilliant idea. Tomb of Horrors is a great training adventure, not just for new players, but also to help people make the transition from WotC editions and Pathfinder to old school D&D. As always, you've given us a fun and insightful video!

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure, thanks

[@lilcwa]

Hahaha… If the Holmes Basic set had included Tomb of Horrors instead of In Search of the Unknown…none of us would be here watching this, because D&D would have quickly ceased to be a thing.

[@BanditsKeep]

Not for new DMs - for new players is what I suggest. As you are correct. A new DM would have a very hard time running this in a way that would be Fun

[@tomkerruish2982]

I've seen a meme where THE iconic image from the module (you know the one I mean) has the legend "Free Ice Cream" added.

[@BanditsKeep]

That would tempt me!

[@scottmorgan5212]

I wrote Gary's Glory Hole in it for my roll20 icon.

[@elliotvernon7971]

Tomb of Horrors was the first module I played - back in 1979 - 7 year old me thought it was awesome, with all the puzzles and traps and the constant threat made playing as a team feel so tense. It got me hooked on D&D.

[@BanditsKeep]

Awesome!

[@terrybeal2252]

Brilliant video. The old school mindset is more about player skill and not being limited by what's on your character sheet. 🧙‍♂️

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes!

[@Peregrinans]

I've read original ToH, hope to use it someday, generally I fell in love with this module because it is really tough and punishing but when you approach it cleverly it can be beaten. I tried use this kind of philosophy that a dungeon can also be an intellectual challege and posses a few nasty (but beatable) traps to players when designed my own elf wizard tomb for group of 3-rd level players and it worked quite nicely :)

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice!

[@chrisragner3882]

Good idea. Probably the best way to teach immersion is for the player to be active in the scenario as if they were actually there.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@maxhockenberry8462]

Interesting idea: I've run the tomb six or so times over my GM career and used it as everything from a one shot to the end of a years long campaign. My take on it is that the tone of the game and expectations of the players matters more than anything else; if they are so wrapped up and worried about their characters dying they are going to be paralyzed with indecision and not think about the obvious answers or be too afraid to try anything which means they are going to have a terrible time. My best experiences with it were with a group where they had sworn personal vengeance against Acererak and thus were highly motivated to reach the end (which they did!). Its fun to run as a DM, especially given its notorious reputation and the joy and sense of accomplishment when they reached the end was amazing. Great video!

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes!

[@SusCalvin]

It's always bad if the players learn that every magic item is cursed and every potion is secretly a poison. Then it's rapidly becoming a negadungeon where the rational choice is always to leave and only sunk cost fallacy and morbid curiosity is supposed to keep people in

[@YOOTOOBjase]

We run a relatively fast paced an narrative focused game. We use our own system. Traps haven't been a big piece, but this is giving me some ideas about how to run them more narratively. Treasure is exp in our system, and tends to be jewellry, art, or small magic items. We don't have much treasure, so a trap filled treasure dungeon could be a real temptation for my players.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@dmraydm]

Recently picked up an original copy of this, feels like a treasure from another time! Iconic artwork

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure!

[@josephpince4716]

My cleric was the only character to survive because I was frustrated with the challenges and just sat back… My favorite Reddit description of the Tomb’s puzzles was “Pick a number between 1-10.” “5?” “Wrong, the answer is Pink. You’re dead!” ☠️☠️

[@BanditsKeep]

That might be your favorite but it is incredibly inaccurate.

[@josephpince4716]

Sometimes that’s Reddit. I enjoyed the exploration of the Tomb and the story elements, but the pacing would grind to a halt with the puzzles (for my group). As a player, I wanted more story, maybe more clues to piece things together.

[@onetruetroy]

Great video! I love Tomb of Horrors as a player and DM and also as a GM in other RPGs for the reason that you pointed out: this is a module for players, not just for the characters. I ran this as an archaeological dig in Call of Cthulhu. I imagine with some tweaking Tomb of Horrors would fit nicely as a Mothership scenario.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice! I love the idea of using it in CoC and other systems

[@shirtandsocks3992]

Fantastic video. While personally I think that B2: Keep on the Borderlands is a better module to introduce completely new players, I agree with a lot of your points! I would probably run Tomb for new players to the OSR style of play, especially those who have only been exposed to later editions to D&D or even Pathfinder. A little TTRPG experience goes a long way to helping that transition process that Tomb really does fantastically (and brutally!) Again, this was an excellent video.

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks! Yes B2 is great, though I have a soft spot for B1

[@commonweakness9060]

Great idea. I would love to see this fleshed out. I have some new players who are into thinking their way through dungeons. keep up the good work.

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks!

[@VisualMediaConcepts]

I decided to solo play all the old TSR modules that I never played back in the day. This is one I was hoping to play, but I don't think it possible. Darn it. I'll put this one aside and wait until I can find a group that's interested. Thanks and great video!

[@BanditsKeep]

Probably not ideal for solo as I think it would be hard to be surprised

[@alekseylibernikel7606]

Few years back i've actually run this modual for newbies. It was AMASSING. Totally agree with you. Few things to consider: 1) You MUST tell your players in advance that you will run tomb of horrors. And that it will be deadly so they would have right mindset. 2) Gm should be prepared. This module is hard to run underprepared. 3) have a few spared character pregens. Lvl 10.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@dmxoan]

I love this idea, when i do it think i will lost a video talking about it, thanks for all the great ideas man

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks!

[@devildog2023]

Thank you Daniel!

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks for watching

[@aubreymorris9183]

I am SO fixing to do this. I have the perfect person. She's never played until recently and we started her out in B/X after watching your channel and in B2 Keep on the border lands with her halfling SnuggBreaches. So far she and a few npc's have completed cave B, discovered the secret room, and the entrance to cave C. She's convinced the traveling priest at the keep to accompany them back to raid cave C. So it would be easy to run just her and a couple of npc's in the Tomb. I will run the idea past her and look over my copy of the Tomb and adjust as recommend.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool! I’d love to hear the results

[@TheSoling27]

re- props -- had my son - who was, at 13yrs old, was going to crew on a tallship -- and his character had "rope use" non-weapon proficiency -- so I made him tie the knots -- if he used the NP .. teachable moments can be what D&D is about

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice!

[@AndyReichert0]

and honestly, new players are the BEST at coming up with crazy ideas!! so there's a good chance that they'd have a better time at it than the folks who want to roll a check or hit everything with the magic sword.

[@BanditsKeep]

This is my thinking

[@SusCalvin]

One of the new players asked "Can we see if they are evil?" and quickly grasped that they had to observe these people or talk to them. They saw some alfs with mining tools and no guns working and whistling. One PC knew their language and figured out they were singing about eating gold. In the end they bribed them with a stolen gold tooth to pass.

[@SpiritWolf1966]

I enjoy all of Bandit’s Keep videos

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank You!

[@MemphiStig]

I think this is a great idea. I'd be tempted to run noobs as a high level party of pre-generated characters, just to give them a taste of the power, but not really the opportunity to fully exploit it, and to learn that power isn't always the answer. But no insta-death, just this once. And I wouldn't try it as a one-shot either, because like you say, it's about taking time and thinking your way thru.

[@BanditsKeep]

That would be fun!

[@nonya9120]

Love it.... depends on players involved (as all things do)

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@SusCalvin]

When I encounter new players I am most likely at some sort of event. The players will be there for four or even one-two hours. This usually means they get a bundle of pregens and start with a few rumours and a basic camp outside the dungeon. A dungeon does not need to be a sprawling location for this. Sometimes you can play with three hexes of travel with random nonsense and a couple possible routes. I like to have factions and people and monsters around, not a relatively empty maze. Not for instant fights but to barter with, interrogate, recruit, trick and bribe. Two or three small groups the size of a gorilla pack, street gang, pirate crew, prospecting expedition fits in a small location. One island or one hospital bunker or one skyscraper maybe.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@brandongray5043]

I've actually introduced over a dozen people to 1e/2e by running Tomb of Horror's. I run the Tomb of Horror's typically annually!

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice!

[@timothylamont845]

When this module was first released, I made the mistake of trying to insert it into an existing campaign. Nope. Dont do that LOL That is not the intent -- as you point out, it was designed for a specific set of circumstances with a specific goal. However, your question of whether this module (or this TYPE of module) would be a good primer? I absolutely agree, Yes it would. Why? You answered that too. You said, basically, we generally believe the first way we play is THE way to play. It sets our expectations and limits. If I ever met you in person and you said, "Oh, call me Dan," I would have trouble doing so. I see you as "Daniel" and that is who you are in my mind. It is easier to START with a thinking style and move towards combat than to try the reverse direction. Excellent video and thank you.

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes!

[@gregmackay5821]

Your a madman and I am here for it!

[@BanditsKeep]

I don’t deny it 😊

[@dirtybasementterrain]

As legendary as ToH is, I've never understood how it has garnered a "bad" reputation. I think it's an incredibly fun classic module to run. Yes it does challenge the Players but I've always thought that was one of the best elements of this module

[@BanditsKeep]

I agree

[@stewi009]

I have only two words: Challenge Accepted.

[@BanditsKeep]

Well met!

[@Eulindo1986]

I really think the Tomb of Horrors can be an excellent funnel adventure for DCC. Needs some adjustments and minor changes, of course... but i think it's perfect for a funnel for zero level characters (4 or 5 per player). In fact, it's a project i'm intending to work on in the near future

[@BanditsKeep]

Could be fun

[@SusCalvin]

The crew tried a funnel and complained it had too few threats. I think the DCC starter dungeon also lacks random encounters. In it, it's your architecture skill that is tested.

[@heroeshomebrew]

The water puzzle is from Die Hard with a Vengeance. The last decent Die Hard movie.

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes, thanks!

[@edwardklein1610]

Good arguments!

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank You!

[@keithkannenberg7414]

I've owned S1 for decades but have never played it. I'd like to run it as a one shot, possibly as some sort of high level funnel where each player has 3 or 4 characters to use with the expectation that many of them are going to die.

[@BanditsKeep]

That could work - but I doubt they’ll need that many characters unless they are careless

[@elfbait3774]

An interesting point and I suppose another added benefit of using ToH as a training dungeon is that it shows how nasty and lethal the game can be, if players aren't on top of things.

[@BanditsKeep]

True!

[@stevefugatt7075]

Over the years I've borrowed a lot of ideas from TOH for my own adventures. While running it for new players I truly wouldn't recommend, the ideas it presents are excellent teaching tools.

[@BanditsKeep]

I can see that point of view - it would definitely need to be modified

[@jeffhatch679]

Daniel, my group beat this one easily about 25 yrs ago. Player skill. Our DM had to cheat to try and beat us. Proper spell casting and time win out in this module.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice

[@jacknerdlord3244]

TOH is a pretty fantastic module in my opinion. Survival esp when poison was outright lethal regardless of total HP, means level is a lot less important except for the final fight. Maybe the monsters that do exist were a lot harder in original rules but they are cake walks for a fifth level party in 5e.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@gregh5665]

For an old-school "teaching module" of this type that is low level, try "Beyond the Crystal Cave." Ingenuity, discretion, diplomacy, subterfuge - all helpful, but combat is generally counterproductive.

[@BanditsKeep]

I’ll check it out, thanks! That’s a AD&D module, Right?

[@martinbowman1993]

You could use an intelligence roll as an idea check without using it as a means of solving the problem.

[@BanditsKeep]

Like Call of Cthulhu! Good idea

[@theyawningowlbear6758]

Some times you need to hit the ground running. Because even it is trying to wipe your character sheet from existence.

[@BanditsKeep]

True

[@stevewright8431]

Tomb of Horrors was not created or written by Gary Gygax. He provided the artwork, graphics, editing, and packaging for publication. As with many other things D&D, it was plagiarized by Gary. ToH was written by Alan Lucien, one of the group of the original designers of the game, and ruthlessly DMed it at Origins. For his contribution to D&D rules, Alan created the majority of the original Magic User spells. Gary disappeared with all the game notes then returned months later having published the game under his own name, giving the other creators "a free copy of the rules." At Origins, after seeing no group get through the dungeon, Gary loved it and asked Alan if he could publish it as a module (seeming reasonable this time). Alan said, "sure." Gary published the game, having added the artwork and graphics since Alan just had it all in pencil, as "Tomb of Horrors, created by Gary Gygax. The author wishes to express his thanks to Mr. Alan Lucien who was kind enough to submit some of the ideas for this dungeon," as seen on the cover of the original module, and on the 1981 version, but omitted in all later versions. As with D&D, Alan never got a penny of the profits, just a free copy of the module. In later years, Alan (and many other creators) declined to "submit some ideas" to Gary. As for myself, I have played a character in ToH twice (the first time with Alan himself at his house) and never made it past the first hallway!

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed. The book art and arcana has Lucien’s original tomb - you can definitely see the influence and sections taken from that adventure.

[@nGuy1901]

Not really the style of game I'm interested in playing. We messed around some with ToH as kids, didn't really play it. However, I have run some other "classic" tournament modules lately but I never will again. I have a few complaints about them. The tournament modules aren't particularly "realistic;" they have one (or more!) "weird" traps, a "new" monster, and a layout that neatly fits on an 8.5"x11" piece of graph paper. In that space is crammed an ecology that doesn't make sense. I would rather have a campaign with a longer plot; tournament modules are designed to be finished in a session or three. Second, "I tap the ceiling with my stick" doesn't strike me as fun. "Oh, but you didn't say you were looking at the ceiling in *this* room, so gotcha!" is even less fun. One of the drawbacks is that for this to work well requires really good communication between players and GM. Third, even if I did like being "overly paranoid" as a play style, I wouldn't throw that at new players. I think, as a play style, it assumes some cultural knowledge and a buy-in from the players to engage in that sort of play.

[@BanditsKeep]

It’s definitely not for everyone - though I’d love to know which modules you speak of with the weird ecology.

[@nGuy1901]

@@BanditsKeep I ran my first 5e campaign through the AD&D A series dungeons (slavers). In A1, why are there ant men in the dungeon, particularly right around the corner, literally, from an orc colony? In A2, the top half of the hill fort makes no sense. The back half of the complex is (essentially) administrative offices, but it's behind a whole funhouse of traps and ghosts. I would fire the office architect because operating a slaver business always having to walk around all that would be super inconvenient. A3 likewise had a nonsensical layout. It was a mini Whiteplume Mountain, but you had to go through this long, convoluted (but linear) funhouse to get into the slavers fort.

[@MarkMillerTX]

It was Die Hard 3. Great puzzle.

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes! Thanks

[@BX-advocate]

I love this module. I do have more to discuss below but spoilers so... Spoilers: It both does and doesn't have what you need to beat it in the dungeon. For example the final boss needs items to beat it that none of the pre-written characters have but there are other ways that aren't written down. The key to the Tomb of Horrors is thinking outside the box. There is one story I heard about someone who beat the Demi-Lich with the crown from the earlier room, apparently Gary was running the game himself and it blew his mind how smart it was cause he didn't think about it but he did allow it.

[@BanditsKeep]

What about the gems? They are in the room

[@BX-advocate]

@@BanditsKeep yeah fair but I think that's a little obscure and again is an outside the box thing. In terms of straight attacking it the weapons that specifically hurt it aren't available. So yes the gems do work but I doubt most players will do that unless again they think outside the box, because most of the time treasure is just treasure.

[@BanditsKeep]

@@BX-advocate for sure - I do think you are not supposed to beat the lich in the tournament

[@TheSoling27]

Spoiler -- How far did I get" -- Played it as a 14th level Magic in a largerish party AD&D version in 1985ish -- swung feet first into the famous maw -- lost my legs up to my third leg -- and then after the successfull system shock cast Tensers Floating Disc and floated thru it ..

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice!

[@TheEricthefruitbat]

Definitely some outside the box thinking. But it makes sense.

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@chriscotgrove9674]

Tomb of Horrors was definitely written to teach some players a lesson...

[@BanditsKeep]

😉

[@raff3486]

This is a great video!

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank You!

[@GothridgeManor]

Love the idea of using S1 as a teaching adventure. But I'm biased. And btw that porcupine trap is a bitch.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@scottgregg7994]

Part of the lesson Gygax was giving with ToH was that the players bragging about their uber characters often weren’t good D&D players. They were high level with piles of items, but completely missed a big part of the game. That’s why combat was so minimal in the adventure, but players who were had a better understanding of the game would have a much easier time. Spells like Find Traps, Find the Path, Locate Object. Augury, Divination, etc could move through the Tomb without the long list of magic items that some players had but would struggle to get past the entry corridor. A lot of players understanding of spells didn’t go much further than healing and artillery.

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@scottgregg7994]

@@BanditsKeep I just discovered your channel. Great content!

[@gorter23]

always fun when your dump stat is INT and player intelligence takes over

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@sirguy6678]

Your party walks into the dungeon… roll a D6….you all die! Roll up new characters..they all die!

[@BanditsKeep]

Hmm, clearly you’ve not read the module

[@pickpocketpressrpgvideos6655]

I ran ToH for my long time group as a one off for laughs - to "see how far" they could get. It was not really a fun experience for me. The players knew the module's reputation and played super cautious - they only interacted with something if they had to, and without time pressures, it moved very slow. They did get a long way though, maybe 3/4 through.

[@BanditsKeep]

I could see that - the reputation is likely what caused the pace - I wonder if you had not told them what adventure it was

[@StoryboardsbyStuffPOP]

I didn't really understand that the Tomb of Horrors as a tournament play game was competitive based on how far a party could get or how fast they could complete it. That's kinda the exact sort of module I'm constructing to pre-package w/ my own TTRPG WAM.

[@BanditsKeep]

That was the idea of these modules - some of them had a bunch of combat, TOH was about tricks/traps and puzzles

[@Slit518]

Die Hard 3

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes!

[@sirguy6678]

I heard gygax originally wrote the module as a beat down to his high level players in his home group- the players had become so powerful (through years of playing and acquisition of lots of magic items) the players has become lazy- it’s a FU to arrogant players

[@BanditsKeep]

Not his home game - convention games.

[@jimmybrook7119]

Haha!

[@BanditsKeep]

😊

[@chameleondream]

You should write a module called Womb of Horrors for character levels 1 to 3!

[@BanditsKeep]

Brilliant!

[@anthonybird546]

Teaches the way of Pain 😂

[@BanditsKeep]

😈

[@solomani5959]

Be good for you to make a spoiler version. Curious about the specifics you discuss.

[@BanditsKeep]

Perhaps.. I hate to make content that not everyone can enjoy though

[@solomani5959]

@@BanditsKeep fair. But since this is a dm focused topic anyway your audience would be relatively small with or without spoilers I’m guessing.

[@christianmerz2232]

It would be great for you to make this a low level adventure

[@BanditsKeep]

I know people have done 5e conversations of old modules - I’ll have to look into how that works legally.

[@christianmerz2232]

@@BanditsKeep numbers filed off... Something in that style

[@dungeondumbo]

Good video 👍

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks

[@ballisticus1]

[spoilerish] To defeat the BBEG at the end requires certain equipment that isn't found in the dungeon nor do any of the pregens that come with the module possess. Otherwise, yes the module is self-contained.

[@BanditsKeep]

Not true - what is in the room can be used - at least in the original

[@ballisticus1]

@@BanditsKeep just checked and you are correct there are items in the final room that two classes can use (thief and paladin)

[@jaybakata5566]

*Spoiler* playing Tomb of Horrors is only as good as the DM! Did you and your group 'survive' Tomb of Horrors? What were your favorite parts/puzzles/clues? Did you think any of the traps/tricks/etc were too difficult to figure out/needed more information/guidance? I really do believe it can help you to become a better player however, there are some parts that the information that you need does not seem to be there. Wait, you have created dungeons like this for new players? Videos man! I would love to see how to teach players to play, think, etc. instead of I attack it every time. How do you feel about 'save or die'? I do not like it at all. It comes down to the luck of the roll. That is the thing I hate the most from old school. Wizards are so powerful... oh yeah, well we can all die from poison if we don't make our save. Would really love to hear your thoughts on this and the questions I asked. Thanks.

[@BanditsKeep]

I will definitely make a follow up video and cover sone of that (things I learned). The first time I played ToH we did not finish it, the 2nd time I played we did. Save or die is interesting and I think it can be argued for, but I rarely use it.

[@sw33n3yto00]

A learning module!? Well, you cover nearly everything, so i guess. However, the most practiced lesson would be making characters.

[@BanditsKeep]

Learning to play in a certain style, not learning mechanics

[@strawpiglet]

Thanks for the spoiler warning! I closed my ears.

[@BanditsKeep]

Glad I made the warning!

[@scottmarsh2991]

The Tomb of Horrors is theoretically ideal to teach the art of dungeon delving-but it’s tricky throughout and can wear down player morale with a quickness. Do NOT make this a dungeon that the PCs MUST clear out lest the campaign can continue elsewhere. No, you can instead run the Tomb as a lucrative but deadly gold mine for the PCs. Load them up with insane amounts of treasure at the first sign of player boredom or annoyance! That way, they might leave and can try to go deeper later on when it suits them. The dungeon can be an evil but sleepy place after all; there’s no need to make the “Tomb” the source of any lively and acute threat to the region.

[@BanditsKeep]

That’s a great point, they could delve the Tomb for a bit, leave and return when they need the gold!

[@TKFKU]

As a dm, it gets you used to killing your friends and family. As a player it teaches you to not get attached to your character. Good times! I would gladly use it to introduce the game to people. Welcome to the brain teasing meatgrinder of life lol.

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes!

[@nicholasbarsan7529]

This would NEVER be a good idea as a novice level adventure. My highest ever character a 12th level Magic User died back in 1985.

[@BanditsKeep]

Never say never 😊

[@commonviewer2488]

Do not recommend running it raw. There's definitely something of worth in the Tomb, but there are one too many ways to lose your character over a single trap.

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@Zr0din]

You are Jokeing, right? You gotta be Joking! Is this an April Fools event?

[@BanditsKeep]

Maybe, maybe not

[@kevinkingmaker7395]

Teach players how to die.

[@BanditsKeep]

Not any more so than a room full of orcs

[@taragnor]

Tomb of Horrors is really the worst parts of D&D. Basically to succeed you have to pretty much just pedantically and methodically send in cannon fodder (like hirelings, summoned monsters, etc) to set off the traps, because a lot of the traps are straight-up unfair in that they're nearly impossible to detect and not telegraphed. But send in a bunch of suckers to set them off for you, and you know where they are. Fighters have nothing useful to do in this module as there's almost no actual fighting, so if you picked a fighter, you might as well just not bother showing up, because your skills are almost entirely useless and you're essentially playing a trapspringer with high hp. Of course since not all the traps do damage and many are save-or-die or even no-save-just-die, you really can't count on just being tanky to save you. This isn't modern D&D, most people didn't die to damage, they died to failed saves. Casters fortunately do have way more to do, though you'll want the spells you probably don't take often, like augury, divination, wizard eye, and anything else that gives you some idea of what might be up ahead waiting to kill you. So make sure to proceed at the pace of an 80-year-old grandma and slowly, methodically scan every room as best you can. Acererak isn't coming after you, so take your time. As far as the player skill, I'd call it more player cowardice, since the best strategy is just to get some other fool to take the risks for you. Almost everything about the tomb rewards you for not being the idiot that leads the way in there. Which I guess one can say is good tactics from an OSR standpoint, but it's not very fun or engaging.

[@BanditsKeep]

I disagree with all of this, but if you read it that way, I’d say this is not an adventure for you.

[@dantherpghero2885]

As written this is a terrible module. A less lethal version could be useful as a funnel type adventure. As someone who likes to play fighters, you need a big battle at the end. If the idea is to put something in for every type of player, don't leave out the fighter.

[@BanditsKeep]

I’m not a fan of putting things in for every player - players will do what they want. And there is a big fight if you choose to

[@jeffallen559]

Tomb of Horrors as written is kind of silly. I have no idea how someone would ever figure out some of that stuff in there.

[@BanditsKeep]

We figured it out - just by thinking like adventurers trapped in a tomb