THRASH METAL band debate with Daniel Dekay from Diemonds | LOCK HORNS (live stream archive)

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Episode 15: THRASH METAL features host Sam Dunn and guest DANIEL DEKAY of Diemonds. It's time to tackle the Big Four and so much more! What did Banger get wrong on the Thrash branch of our Metal Tree? How has this genre evolved? And what do we do about Pantera? We need you to Lock Horns with us, so tell us how you feel about this style. Who are the most essential bands? Who is carrying the torch today? Leave us your comments here and join us LIVE on Thursday April 28 at 4pm. Ready? Fight!
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[@Nightbreed82]

Thrash is a great "middle ground" that the majority of metalheads can appreciate. It's extreme enough for us nutters, but coherent enough that many people, even non-metalheads would agree, "yeah, that ROCKS!". I love Death and Black Metal, Math and Prog Metal, but I must say that Thrash has a very tasteful way of going right up to the edge of the cliff and maintaining itself there, rarely breaching controlled chaos.

[@helmzmen]

"cliff"

[@russell_szabados]

Paul Leach: really well said and very accurate. On my own, I listen almost exclusively to extreme sub genres and a lot of noise & industrial too, but thrash is the great equalizer. You can have a conversation with almost anyone into metal and find common ground with a lot of thrash bands.

[@williambaxter4628]

Paul Leach Well said.

[@dezionlion]

This is the problem people like you want thrash to be some middle ground crossover shit!

[@mountzod]

Agreed 💯

[@WolfgangVonPoserkila]

Anvil and Pantera on a thrash board LOL

[@fishsticks8198]

Hey man, 666 was arguably a Thrash metal song. Metal on Metal was quite close to tipping the edge. I think the whole album was heavier than Kill em All, but it just wasn't thrashy enough. Anvil did do some thrash metal later though, so you know, not a total travesty to put them on the thrash board.

[@sepulmattica7649]

Pantera?! Which Pantera are they talking about, the glammy one from the 80’s, or the Groove Metal one they became later?

[@MrSENTINELOFFREEDOM]

Okay anvil is one of the most coveted bands in thrash by other thrash bands Pantera evolve into groove metal but were always considered thrash through the 80s

[@Gregbaltzer]

@@MrSENTINELOFFREEDOM Pantera was never considered Thrash in the 80's, they were a glam band. And Anvil is speed metal, not Thrash metal.

[@MrSENTINELOFFREEDOM]

@@Gregbaltzer I don't recognize groove metal as a term or category for one major reason attend to categorize using the method of 4 if it makes me bang my head/want to Mosh/throw up the devil horns 🤘 / scream the lyrics at top of my lungs to offend churchgoers/the drummer runs 2 double kicke base it is it is at least 🤘 METAL🤘 from there I guess I could go anywhere but we need to remove all of these subgeners and keep it like 6ish the only reason why all of these bands claim to be different is because they're trying to escape the shadow of the big 4 and slice off a little individuality for themselves

[@Metalbass10000]

Dark Angel without a doubt. Gene Hoglan created many of the beats that define the genre (he wrote most of the music and lyrics). Also, as a Slayer tech/roadie in the early days, his influence on Dave Lombardo cannot be overlooked. Metal Church, Vio-lence, Nuclear Assault, Sacred Riech all were influential and all had great songs. Flotsam and Jetsam need to be there. One of the first thrash bands to integrate the twin lead guitar with twin guitar harmony lines (Maiden, Priest, Lizzy as pioneers or prototypes in earlier genres), and had elements that were very much foundational for technical metal.

[@erickrause381]

coroner is another band missing from the Metal list.. their first lp released in '87.. or DBC= dead brain cells, the Crumbsuckers, the Accused.. DRI, was huge for crossover metal/punk/skaters .. Metal is so complex, it cant be put in a box :)

[@vitunpelle602]

Funny how Daniel says that germans didnt care about appearance, hair, bullet belts, has the dude seen a single promo photo of Destruction from the mid 80s?

[@spicychinchin6597]

Lmao, also nice profile pic, that and none so Vile are killer albums

[@antoniodelgado1516]

What about Tom Angelripper (SodoM) with his Lloyd Christmas bowl haircut.

[@UndergroundMetalAlbums]

Dark Angel should be on the list.

[@renatox32ify]

+LuisM.Suárez Dark Angel really needed to be there...fuck man

[@UndergroundMetalAlbums]

+Renato Sanchez At least Vektor was added, man i love that band.

[@nolifetilmetal1]

+LuisM.Suárez Absolutely. Dark Angel are a big omission IMO.

[@renatox32ify]

yep Vektor is great

[@giogionist2148]

They should scratch anvil for putting dark angel, artillery... On this fuck board!

[@korgond]

onslaught and artillery should be in that list on the wall

[@hoserofbrazil]

Missing Nuclear Assault and Sacred Reich IMHO

[@IanIsrael]

Jose Eskenazi Zentrix,Toxik and Atrophy.

[@wadedavis239]

Jose Eskenazi Sacred Reich for sure.

[@thomasfarmer1730]

They should be on the board NOT Pantera

[@vitunpelle602]

Xentrix*

[@vitunpelle602]

Also, Dark angel, razor, Nasty savage, xentrix, artillery, vio-lence.

[@AgtGhoul]

Anvil and pantera not thrash

[@pantera89]

so true...

[@THEshaggyrogers]

EvilAdr1an Gaming pantera is groove metal which is a subgenre of thrash so its debatable but yes, they’re not thrash

[@nolifetilmetal1]

New bands for me are Vektor, Havok, Vindicator, Warbringer...some of the best of the bunch.

[@SinnedNogara]

Power Trip

[@varuniyer4065]

Dont forget Hatchet

[@Nico-lp6pn]

Dust Bolt great German band

[@whip171]

Municipal waste?

[@Sendoh32]

Lich King！

[@JacksonThornhill]

Sodom is also painfully underrated

[@HarhanDerMann]

You know it

[@WarPigs413]

They’re good, but they’re not even the best in the German big 4.

[@HarhanDerMann]

@@WarPigs413 still, being second best from all german thrash bands is a pretty good place to be

[@FirebirdCamaro1220]

@@WarPigs413 I'd argue that Exumer is the best German thrash band these days, as much as I like the Teutonic 3 and Tankard, loved Deathrow, but they're not together since Life Beyond

[@js92css]

I watched this twice, seems that it's incomplete without Nuclear Assault and Coroner. they never get any just recognition

[@Bangyourbirdnumb]

Coroner are prog man.

[@asmodai2025]

Super Mario They are progressive thrash metal.

[@ozhemlock7641]

VOIVOD???

[@Violence1320]

I would say the same. But Voivod doesnt ever need to be mentioned. Just look at his shirt he knows, but says nothing about it. Its just a Trve Voivodian thing to do. Its a Cult Band.

[@alrecks619]

The Unknown Knows

[@ErikB71]

Only War And Pain and RRROOOAAARRR were thrash metal albums.Then they became progressive metal with a diverse fusion of all kinds of elements like punk, speed metal, thrash, industrial, psychedelic, electronic, jazz...etc...

[@odinswolf3446]

Kreator, sodom, slayer, sepultura, exodus my favourite thrash metal

[@Metalbass10000]

Anvil is a heavy metal band. Not thrash. If influencing the genre gets you up there, then Motorhead, Black Sabbath, and thirty other bands go up on the board. Tankard? The other three German bands were significant internationally, Tankard wasn’t even on the radar to most thrash fans, and still aren’t. Not saying they suck, just aren’t impactful enough.

[@SamFerguson]

I'm sure someone got this in the live chat, but of course "Abso-fuckin-lutely" is Cliff Burton (RIP) \m/

[@mvunit3]

+Sam Ferguson - "Taxed and Tariffed" m m - two fisted salute!

[@SamFerguson]

+anaemiabag You are correct! I'd forgotten the "mother" :D

[@PawelSorinsky]

Coroner's missing.

[@delfordbobjr2308]

They are death metal

[@ThePimV]

@@delfordbobjr2308 No they are not. It has some influence at best. But it's definitely thrash it's just very technical.

[@jettrainbow]

@@delfordbobjr2308 lol no

[@kotanovakota]

Progressive thrash metal

[@kotanovakota]

@@alwilsonwastheman Them and CF godly bands

[@robbarham9595]

You need to add Flotsam and Jetsam, Sanctuary, Forbidden and Powertrip to your list.

[@nilabjabanerjee7559]

Demolition Hammer totally deserves a mention!

[@gS0yeUE0udz7d]

Nilabja Banerjee YES!

[@zakillah9702]

Just for Epidemic of Violence alone. What a killer record.

[@duilioalba4395]

Morbid Saint desserves too!!!

[@MrCapone1996]

"Without Anvil there wouldn't be Metallica" Didn't he say the same thing about Diamond Head, Motörhead, and Deep Purple

[@dylanrus8117]

And venom

[@pointuout2020]

Metallica??? Enjoy listening to Enter Sandman and nothing else matters!

[@dylanrus8117]

Point U Out! Whiplash hit the lights metal militia

[@RoRo-vr6wx]

@@pointuout2020 now move on

[@rufussamsquanch_6547]

@@pointuout2020 Yeah?? Im no Metallica apologist (they aint on my jacket) but there's no goddamned doubt that they are the most important Thrash Metal band in history.

[@bschuler6216]

Metal Church!!!! Definitely need to be on the tree.

[@mattsabath]

B schuler Mercilous Onslaught!

[@shaynewest8757]

First albums a pure thrash masterpiece

[@BrandonSmith84]

No Onslaught

[@commandervoca8515]

Blackened Thrash

[@Wrathofkala]

Forbidden is the ultimate thrash band that gets overlooked IMO. Masterful band...

[@ff7soldierff7]

remove pantera and put venom there.

[@ff7soldierff7]

***** They made thrash.

[@jordanholland73]

+Anthony H venom innovated speed metal and created thrash.

[@amixofeverything]

And, in turn...Black Metal.

[@SharleeAviles]

jajajaja venom thrash?

[@alexishuerta9087]

@@SharleeAviles they are

[@brianpotter7520]

I wish more bands were coming out that would reach the level that the big 4 reached.

[@BangerTV]

+Brian Potter So do we!

[@thearchivist7824]

+Brian Potter If you want that to happen, what we need are more thrash metal bands that AREN'T trying to sound like they're from the Eighties. Which is difficult to do. Vektor might be the only one doing it 100% right now.

[@Morbidous]

Vio-lence too!

[@thearchivist7824]

Vio-lence's vocalist sounds like a 5 year old.

[@brianpotter7520]

I think a lot of the problem with newer bands is the vocals they all sound the same.. in the day you knew it was megadeth you knew is was metallica. You knew it was slayer. Now everyone is trying to go 160 bpm were is the depth

[@AuldHammer]

Get rid of that fucking bell lol

[@BangerTV]

+John B Careful, we'll ring the bell on you John. Ha.

[@Nightbreed82]

+BANGER So I've been wondering, is this a physical bell or like software or something? Only asking because I would like to buy one. My family really needs to learn to STFU sometimes.

[@astraeareminiec669]

Would the belll that Lisa rings to shut you up,Sam ... could it work with my sister?

[@SleepFan771]

God, I just love thrash metal. Anthrax is my favorite band. This whole discussion was really fun to watch.

[@MrThrashmetal13]

Evildead DEFINITELY should have had an honorable mention. they were so underrated and true to the Thrash roots

[@thearchivist7824]

How influential were they?

[@FirebirdCamaro1220]

Evildead is back together and finally released their long awaited third album last year \m/

[@Khalis33]

Demolition Hammer? Razor? Morbid Saint?

[@CobraGuns92]

I love Demolition Hammer. I consider them brutal-thrash metal band.

[@addisonlewis723]

Morbid Saint! Lock the children! lml

[@maurismind]

and Sadus!!!!!

[@555orchid]

Yess

[@Nightbreed82]

I think "New Wave of American Metal" is a much better and more fitting title than "Groove Metal". Pantera have been associated with the Groove Metal moniker ever since Phil Anselmo said that their music "grooves" in an interview from the mid '90s. Most metal grooves in places. IMO it's not a legit subgenre.

[@nu-metalfan2654]

To me groove metal is pre Nu metal. Groove metal is about combining elements of funk, tribal or industrial music with mid tempo thrash. Bands like pantera, prong, white zombie, fear factory, biohazard, sepultura(Chaos a.d. and roots era) and soulfly are all groove metal bands.

[@jol9178]

Agreed! I've always been thinking that the so-called "groove metal" subgenre doesn't make sense, as lot of metal bands groove while not being "groove metal". The problem with groove metal is that it just seems to be an obsolete transition term between thrash metal and nu metal, just like speed metal is between heavy and thrash metal. Back then in my country, Pantera, Machine Head and the likes were called "power(/thrash) metal", before this term came to be used for another subgenre. Some call it "post-thrash", but it's too much of an umbrella term for me. "New wave of American Metal" sounds more accurate to me, though a bit loose, and what about non-American bands into the genre?

[@metalheadmoonalisa7062]

Nuclear Assault & Forbidden.

[@felipe126929666]

Today's metal media narrative of Thrash and Speed where Metallica, Anthrax, Megadeth and Slayer are purely Thrash and Venom, Exciter, Raven, etc, are purely Speed Metal or proto-thash is misleading as fuck. Back in the day (80-85) there wasn't this much confusion about metal and what sub-genre they belonged because everything was a huge melting pot of ideas and playing styles. Maybe I could shed some light into this. To me, Speed Metal is just fast Heavy Metal, almost D-Beat in a way, where any band who has the framework of early 80's metal as the playing style could adopt easily where as Thrash Metal is more solidified and is the youngest sub-genre of 80's Metal which did not surface (only once in 84 where Thrash Metal was coined by Malcolm Dome from Kerrang! referencing from Anthrax's Metal Thrashing Mad) as an official genre till 86 where the standard Thrash sound and playing style was established concretely (influences from U.S. Hardcore Punk and less from N.W.O.B.H.M. and D-Beat. During the early 80's Thrash meant hardcore punk or Thrashcore like Septic Death or early Corrosion of Conformity. Thrash and Crossover Thrash along with mid to late 80's so called Glam "Metal" would pretty much push U.S. Power Metal, Speed Metal, 80's Prog Metal, Metal Punk, etc, into obscurity. Early 80's to mid 80's (1985) there wasn't a concrete thrash metal band. Early gen "thrash" like bands were a mix of Speed, Power, Prog, D-Beat, Metal Punk, and even Galm (Laaz Rockit, Seduce, Anvil, etc) as later gen thrash like bands were more like Testament, Death Angel, Tankard, Coroner, Xentrix, D.R.I., Suicidal Tendencies, etc, which were mostly influenced by early gen "thrash" bands and had more of an established sound. While Metallica established the crunch sound in RtL which would influence later gen Thrash bands the, band still retained fast Heavy Metal, N.W.O.B.H.M., UK82, Metal Punk, D-Beat influences and Power Metal (not to confuse Power Metal with Euro Power Metal) along with bands like Artillery, Anthrax, Exciter, Anvil, Agent Steel, Megadeth (1985), etc. As for early generation or First Wave of Black Metal bands like Bathory, Slayer, Exorcist, KAT, early Exodus, Mercyful Fate, Sodom, Destruction, Kreator, Running Wild, Future Tense, Sabbat, etc, where mostly considered Venom clones during the earlier part of the 80's until 86 where each band would later find their own sound and playing style from mid to late 80's and have professional production which would market the band to high success. TL;DR Early gen "thrash" metal bands = melting pot of genres that played, for the most part, fast heavy metal which would be responsible for pioneering and influencing Thrash Metal (Metallica, Anthrax, Slayer, Megadeth, Anvil, Exciter, Agent Steel, early Overkill, etc). Occurred between 80-85 Later gen thrash bands = solidified subgenre within the 80's metal. More abrasive, fast and aggressive than their predecessors. (Dark Angel, Testament, Nuclear Assault, Forbidden, Infernal Majesty, Sacred Reich, Rigor Mortis, Forced Entry, etc. Occurred between 86-90

[@jakobthonen9411]

All the thrash bands are just too damn good you've got that right. Dark Angel, Exumer, Evildead, Toxic Holocaust, Vio-lence, Forbidden, Flotsam and Jetsam, Nuclear Assault, I could go on forever

[@rayatayde227]

Sacred Reich!

[@colinpoitras8769]

Pantera is NOT a Thrash band. They were a cheese ball Hair band, that changed when hair Metal started dying. I agree with the guy that said give them their own category.

[@edwardsixx5017]

fuck you u piece of shit pantera saved metal while metallica were Being bitches

[@RichardWolfe79]

Edward Sixx I don't buy into the whole "Pantera saved metal" debate. I think the media created grunge killed metal bullshit. Metallica were huge. Megadeth were huge in the early nineties. Slayer has always had a big fan base. The death metal scene was thriving and there were bands like Sepultura doing very well. I loved 90's metal and Pantera was definitely not the reason.

[@alex-ie8tp]

+Richard Wolfe All these bands were indeed huge , but they were changing into something less "metal". Metallica was basically hard rock, Megadeth became softer and Sepultura started the whole nu-metal bullshit (and Slayer attempted it too) . I agree with the death metal scene, but it was not as popular and it mainly stayed very underground without many fans. But Pantera was one of the few popular bands that still thrashed like hell and it revitalised the whole thrash metal genre. It was also very influential for the style of many other bands too come. Maybe "saved metal" is a little too much said, but they were very important without a doubt.

[@alex-ie8tp]

Yeah but they were very underground. Pantera made old-school metal kinda popular like in the '80s again

[@RichardWolfe79]

Eu Alex Point is, metal wasn't dead and there were many awesome bands, underground or not. Sepultura had a good following before Roots even came out. Slayer's fan base has always been consistent, regardless of the Diabolus album.

[@dannykrinkle4726]

Yes, Testament is thrash, but was that the definitive sound sample of what thrash is?

[@ThePimV]

I'd say the album Bonded by blood.

[@ramon2008]

Definitely not. I think stuff off peace sells master or reign in blood exemplifies thrash

[@jol9178]

@@ramon2008 I don't see why "Bonded by Blood" would be less an example of pure thrash than "Peace sells" or "Reign in Blood". I'd even even say that among those three albums, "Peace sells" is the one who is less thrash, cause it includes more parts being heavy/speed metal. But don't get me wrong, "Peace sells" is thrash of course.

[@ramon2008]

Jo L haha sorry I was responding to the main commment but yeah I think bonded by blood would certainly be a contender and Yeah I suppose you’re right about peace sells and even master i guess because there’s parts that certainly aren’t your stereotypical thrash.

[@ErikB71]

Agree. Testament should not be used as a prime example of what thrash is. Testament is a pretty sucky band overall IMO lol they never really did it for me. Not enough speed or heaviness. Slayer should have been played - they are the epitome of thrash metal.

[@ericsimoneau4818]

still no Razor. sheep dogs vocals where insane. Sacrifice and Slaughter.

[@michaelbarry9038]

being from Australia I'd like to mention Mortal Sin. maybe not as iconic in the rest of the world but definitely loved and influential here. They formed in 1985 in midst of the thrash boom and only recently called it quits in 2012. They were also the first aussie thrash band to tour internationally.

[@shaynewest8757]

Mayhemic Destruction

[@philipdeppen3644]

I love Mortal Sin

[@deathmetalantichrist1115]

Also being from Australia I'd like to mention allegiance they're from near where I live they (Perth) they only released one album but they are a killer band and if they lasted longer they probably would've became legends on the thrash scene my dad used to know the guitarist Jason stone they also recently got back together

[@stewie374]

Dark Angel, Nuclear Assault, Sacred Reich, Flotsam & Jetsam, Annihilator, Vio-Lence, S.O.D, D.R.I, Suicidal Tendencies........

[@bryanrobbins9263]

Everything's missing. For Old School Thrash Metal: Vio-Lence, Sacred Reich, Flotsam and Jetsam, Dark Angel, Nuclear Assault, Hirax, Defiance, Sadus, Demolition Hammer, Exumer, Powermad, Violent Force, Paradox, Morbid Saint, Devastation, MX, Chalka, Nasty Savage, Darkness, Toxik, Xentrix, Artillery, Blind Illusion, Hallows Eve, Gothic Slam, Slammer, Blood Feast, Bezerker, Realm, Cyclone Temple, Forbidden, Lååz Rocket, Holy Moses, Holy Terror, Heathen, Atrophy, Rigor Mortis, Onslaught, Deathrow, Evildead, SDI, Taurus, Sabbat, Coroner, Vendetta, Dead Brain Cell, Attomica, Mortal Sin, Hobbs' Angel of Death, Acid Reign, Anthares, The Mist, Wargasm, Intruder, Wraithchild American, Forced Entry, Viking, Whiplash, Watchtower, Violent Force, Lawnmower Deth, Slaughter (CAN), Angel Dust, Voivod, Mekong Delta & more. Modern Thrash Metal: Violator, Lich King, Fueled By Fire, Evile, Exarsis, Ghoul, Lost Society, Gama Bomb, Fastkill, Ultraviolence, Hexen, Warbringer, Hatchet, Tungsteno, Mortillery, Fog Of War, Lazarus A.D., Blasthrash, Warbringer, Thrash Or Die, Bywar, Dr. Living Dead, Power Trip, Bonded By Blood, Suicidal Angels, Dekapitator, Merciless Death, Diamond Plate, Condition Critical, Farscape, Crisix, Bio-Cancer, Ramming Speed, Tantara, Black Fast, Vektor, Guillotine, Nervosa & more.

[@bryanrobbins9263]

Well thanks to my dad & his brothers....they're were the original metalheads back in their high school. Then later I was going further...by exploring more old school thrash bands & modern thrash bands.

[@BLACKLIGHTNING1966]

ONSLAUGHT, SABBAT?

[@carlosjantarada7212]

Mainly Sabbat.... their first two records are EASILY among my thrash albums top 10

[@christianjackson9360]

SABBATT wear costumes, so they're not THRASH METAL!!

[@sergiorios6050]

Can't believe I missed the live cast!!!!!!!!! On the best episode of Lock Horns ever!! Argh!!!!! Also, Great to know you ended up taking my advice and supplying a small sample of what you are about to discuss. Although Thrash is very straight forward and widely understood, other genres can be much much more difficult to understand without a bit of context for the uninitiated. So kudos on that. Thrash rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rock on Lock Horns!

[@stevep119]

@BANGERTV you need to go back to this lock horns format stood up with board and guest. With the adjudicator keeping you on track. As i just watched the melodic death metal album one with the newer format. And omg did you guys drag it out and not get to the point it was nearly half an hour in and you hadn't even put an album up. Go back to this format please

[@nolifetilmetal1]

Teutonic Four...Sodom, Destruction, Kreator and...Accu§er. \m/

[@egilkarlson7253]

And Tankard

[@Nightbreed82]

+Scott Waters (ultmetal) Funky looking S. Where you from, like Germany or something? (kidding)

[@nolifetilmetal1]

Paul Leach LOL! It is a funky looking S. I just love Accu§er, as much as the other three German bands. Of course you can't go wrong with Tankard either IMO.

[@nolifetilmetal1]

+Egil Karlson We'll just make it the Teutonic Five! \m/

[@theeddy9985]

ACCUSER

[@randywebb4671]

Germany- Destruction, Kreator, and Sodom Although not German, what about Celtic Frost?

[@1848revolt]

Pantera isn't really thrash.

[@sgtmadness22]

So all bands mentioned aside. I think you missed a big bad for the list an that would be Slaughter CAN. They are a quintessential band for the list here as well as for death metal influence. Since without them being around Chuck would not have been influenced into his next path of which he started Death. Also bands such as Artillery, Rigor Mortis, Onslaught, Malice. As well as a fave of mine Devastation who have a nice deep rooted stake in the scene. I also would like to mention Atom Kraft who in turn may not entirely be full on thrash have paved the way with their speed metal roots starting out in 79.

[@c3920]

Great show, please do more! Best metal albums since the year 2000 maybe?

[@BangerTV]

Oh, we'll do more! The debates never end! [Maniacal laugh]

[@lukeharman7054]

Havok, Warbringer and Municipal Waste should be on this to represent the New Wave of Thrash

[@longingbydesign]

Havok and Municipal Waste are on, consider watching the video

[@NEIL-CURCIO]

I know what Sam means but Flotsam has to be on there

[@robarment7133]

Flotsam and Jetsam is missing. Talk about having depth in the bench. DFTD and NPFD are both epic albums. No Place for Disgrace especially took thrash to a different place. Metal Church rules, but I don’t think of them as thrash. They have lots of heavy songs, but they’re more power, speed,or just straight up metal.

[@avigrus666]

Would add Dark Angel, Coroner, Merciless

[@MrRick693]

I seen Daniel's other band (Aggressor) in Ottawa with Annihilator. In a fucking pool hall with maybe a couple hundred people!!! What a show!!! Aggressor is very thrashy!!! 😣😣😣😣

[@racer24t]

Y'all are gonna have to cover Deathcore eventually....

[@JPMetal1608]

No

[@racer24t]

+John Papachristos Yes

[@chrismkimmel1]

+John Papachristos yes!

[@racer24t]

+za fool What the hell else could it be then? -Downtuned Guitars -Screamed Vocals -Blast Beats (Occasionally) -Known to have crazy crowds at shows Sounds like metal to me...

[@thearchivist7824]

+racer24t that guy is an absolute idiot, of course deathcore is metal whether you like it or not, and as far from just crap like Suicide Silence and BMTH as you can get. That's like generalizing all metal as Motley Crue, Poison, etc.

[@Serena03]

Would of thought DRI would have got a mention. While they were on the brink between hardcore, punk, and thrash, they were were very influential for the neo thrash movement like Iron Regan, Municipal Waste, and Havok. I guess they belong in their own genre.

[@Wrathofkala]

Forbidden has 3 of the top 50 thrash albums of all-time. That should count for something.

[@Mike4metal]

It is Not Complete without Forbidden! And Vio-lence !! Bay Area Originals!🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻✨

[@jmyers95655]

Bought my first Slayer record in 1985, at age 13. "Hell Awaits" is still the gold standard for me. From there, it was all about Bay Area thrash: Possessed, Death Angel, Exodus, Sadus, Vio-lence, etc.

[@kevinmitchell4018]

Hell yess! Hell awaits is Slayers best record

[@FirebirdCamaro1220]

LA had some great bands, Dark Angel, Hirax, Evildead, Viking, Slayer (of course), Vengeance Rising....

[@jmyers95655]

@@FirebirdCamaro1220 DUUUUDE! Dark Angel. So underrated.

[@stewie374]

Whoever mentioned Lamb Of God should be hanged. They have NOTHING to do with thrash metal. What about D.R.I and S.O.D? The were a HUGE influence to many many people. They brought the hardcore and punk crowd to thrash metal.

[@currerbell-eyre606]

Municipal Waste gets on the board but not Dark Angel what the actual hell

[@anaemiabag]

+Thad White yep theres something wrong with that haha.

[@thearchivist7824]

It doesn't help that Municipal Waste is total garbage. *backs away*

[@currerbell-eyre606]

That's why I sometimes dislike this format. You get a joke band that is seen as more influential than the pioneers. I don't really think that any of the rethrash band should be on there. I guess maybe Revocation or Vektor, but I can't really stand behind Municipal Waste when Dark Angel, Obliveon, Coroner are left off. The issue with this format is that it's a complete shouting match. Whomever's fans yell their name the loudest get on there. That's wrong in my opinion.

[@thearchivist7824]

I said this in another comment but the idea of "rethrash" is to basically "keep it alive" which is the antithesis of doing anything influential. It's living off in the past, whereas nowadays it seems Vektor and to a lesser extent Revocation are the only thrash metal bands NOT doing that.

[@currerbell-eyre606]

The Abyssal Archivist Yes completely. I think that maybe Toxic Holocaust and Havok could make it as just a "thrash" band but not any of the traditional rethrash bands could (by that I mean the ones that are basically clones of the thrash movement) whereas the bands that are adding different elements like Vektor, Revocation, or Warbringer are actually moving the genre. Thrash is one of the more stagnant subgenres of metal imo,

[@billybarbier8275]

I remember over 30 years ago Speed Metal and Thrash Metal were the same thing. It was called Speed Metal first then acquired the name Thrash Metal somewhere along the way. I had a Megadeth poster that said “The World’s State Of The Art Speed Metal Band”.

[@m169marroquin]

Subbed!

[@The6977]

XENTRIX ONSLAUGHT or ACID REING all from UK .. A member of my FB group pointed on this and He’s right!

[@nikoskazakos9510]

Hey Banger, great episode as usual, I'm really enjoying these Lock Horns streams so keep up the great work. You guys are the best! Also, what ever happened to that panel Sam mentioned in an earlier stream about racism in metal? I haven't heard any mention of it so is it still something you plan on doing at some point? I think it would be interesting to see the your views on it as well as the wider metal community's view on it, as other races are becoming more widely accepted in metal but there are obviously still some issues (not mentioning any names). I understand that it is a bit different to the standard Lock Horns episode so it may take you a while to get it organised, but I'm just curious to know about what was going on with that idea. Hopefully we see something similar in the future, and thanks once again for another great episode!

[@mvunit3]

+Nikos Kazakos - thats right! Did it get "shut down" or was it too controversial? :o

[@nikoskazakos9510]

+mvunit3 No doubt it would be controversial but I feel it's an elephant in the room that needs to be brought up. I know Sam has some passionate opinions on it so maybe he's holding back from doing it for now, considering recent events, but we'll see. Hopefully it happens though! It would be the most eventful panel for sure.

[@BangerTV]

+Nikos Kazakos Thanks! The panel is still coming. We have some technical issues to sort out so we can have it run smoothly. Stay tuned!

[@nikoskazakos9510]

+BANGER Cool, sounds good! Will look out for that in the future.

[@colinpoitras8769]

Hey Sam. Forged in Fire by Anvil preceded Kill em All. Listen to songs like Shadow Zone, Winged Assasins, or Motormount. That is straight Thrash. Fast, heavy riffing, double bass. Those songs coulda been on kill em all and nobody woulda noticed. Released in 83 before Kill em all. These guys should get way more love then they do. If u can't hear proto-thrash in Anvil then u don't know thrash.

[@mazze84]

There is so much new thrash out there! (Depends on where you draw the line for new) Somewhere around the 2000,s. Because the genre is more vital than ever, in no short thanks to bands like Evile, Warbringer, Vektor, Iron Regan etc. Get on it, please!

[@FirebirdCamaro1220]

2001 was the year that thrash truly started it's comeback, and it was due to Kreator, Sodom and Destruction all releasing great comeback albums that year

[@samcartier1790]

I'll simply put my grain of salt on Voivod! It's a corner stone between Thrash and prog metal, the technical aspects of their music influenced much of the newer Thrash bands (IE Revocation) and a fare share of prog bands (see their time changes and unusual melodies (Dimension Atröss, Nothing Face, War and Pain...)... They were (and still are) a pillar of the genre (at least in Quebec), where they (and by that I mean Piggy) influencend a bunch of technical Death Metal (and nearly all of Tech Death's scene in Quebec, and it isnt small)... A true landmark in Metal, but mainly to Thrash and partly Prog metal... They may have been late to the dance but their entrance and their impact shouldn't be overlooked (and in a sense ain't that a big part of what Thrash did for Metal, make the scene evolve)

[@choch72]

Suicidal Tendencies. Put out some great thrash.

[@varuniyer22]

Also, HOW IS WARBRINGER NOT PART OF THE BOARD FOR NEWER THRASH BANDS.?

[@christianjackson9360]

WARBRINGER is hardly HARD ROCK music!!

[@magpieix]

I wouldn't call Anvil a thrash band. They're a straight up metal band who occasionally strays into thrash territory. if they just wanted to add some Cancon, I would put Voivod, Exciter, Infernal Majesty and Annihilator

[@talkingblades8227]

I never did understand the distinction between Thrash and Speed. Is Speed even an 'official' genre?

[@bloodlust8774]

Thrash and speed metal are very similar but they are separate genres. Speed metal would be bands like exciter, accept, anvil, agent steel and venom. Those bands aren't quite heavy enough to be considered pure thrash but they are also heavier and more abrasive than traditional heavy metal.

[@talkingblades8227]

Thanks for that explanation!

[@bloodlust8774]

+Talking Blades No problem!

[@billyscranner6813]

From what I understand Speed metal is some where betwen Thrash metal and Power metal. Instead of power chords used in Thrash they much more often use open chords. It's usually less agressive and more melodic than Thrash metal, showing less influence from Hardcore Punk but still faster and more aggressive than Heavy and Power metal.

[@talkingblades8227]

Thanks for that!

[@joegonzalez4188]

Nobody sounds out "NWOBHM" like this guy does - It's new wave of British heavy metal. doesn't take long to say. kinda funny that he tries to coin a new phrase

[@cityterrace8391]

WTF?! Where is Dark Angel??!!

[@loncopper5816]

Suicidal Tendencies touches punk also but with Rocky George, Suicidal was an absolute thrash band. 4 thrash albums that all went gold. Tell me any of these other bands can touch that.

[@odinswolf3446]

Germany had the best thrash bands more extreme Kreator and sodom had more of an influence on black and death metal

[@FullPowerMasteryWithRa]

Where's Tankard on that list? They're one of the best and German big four. If I don't see them on that board, no sub from me.

[@joeysixtysix]

Is Voivod thrash or are they just too weird to fall into a category? Always loved them.

[@TLGZOID]

+joeysixtysix prog experimental thrash

[@TLGZOID]

prog thrash

[@shaynewest8757]

First three albums definitely thrash then became more prog metal

[@marcelogonzalez3151]

Megadeth ,thrash ? Sodom , Kreator, Destruction, Atrophy ,they are true Thrash Metal. ☹️

[@nicolasvillamil7523]

Daniel looks just like pete webber from havok

[@TisTheDamnStickSeason]

Dekay praising Exciter in 2016, presumably not knowing what was to come haha.

[@js92css]

Nuclear Assault!

[@h8ed121]

DUSTBOLT, warbringer, municipal waste, toxic holocaust, exodus, sodom, evile, havok, these are just some of my favorite thrash metal bands

[@pantera89]

Morbid Saint \\m//

[@seandickey6219]

D.R.I...BEST THRASH BAND...NOT EVEN MENTIONED...

[@ErikB71]

That's hardcore

[@oskarstrom4034]

You forgot Nuclear Assault.

[@televisedpork7993]

They’re more crossover thrash

[@mattsabath]

Absolutely. Nuclear Assault very underrated kickass thrash band. 100%.

[@ceebee491]

Acid Reign (🇬🇧). Death Angel Nuclear Assault Great Thrash bands,🎸😎

[@Metalbass10000]

During the mid to late eighties Suicidal Tendencies, D.R.I. were considered “crossover” thrash, and S.O.D. were as well (but more hardcore influenced). D.R.I. actually had an album called, “Thrash Zone.,” and listening to much of thier music today, it is definitely thrash for about 90% of the totality of thier recorded music. Suicidal was really a thrash band by the time they released “Controlled by Hate,” and, “Lights, Camera, Revolution.” S.O.D. Influenced many of the bands on the board, and though Billy Milano brings the hardcore strong, Charlie Benante’s drumming, Danny Lilker’s bass, and Scott Ian’s guitar (especially his guitar tone!!!) are all pure thrash.

[@kevinmitchell4018]

Hmmm.and dnt forget tht dri cme out wth tht awesome friggin record.crossover

[@FirebirdCamaro1220]

I always considered ST a hardcore punk band (at least for their first two albums)

[@davidestrada8489]

How can they forget forbidden and violence and Dark Angel and Nuclear Assault and sacred right

[@fabzlab1980]

no metallica without anvil? don't think so

[@nameless76mozwhaz9]

Fab Pizzo ikr I commented on that too. I highly doubt James said there would be no Metallica if it weren't for Anvil.

[@stevenbaksh5545]

TOX tox James said without Motorhead they would be no Metallica

[@megaduck7965]

I think between Motörhead Maiden, Priest ,Saxon, Sabbath, and then the Punk stuff Cliff was into there would definitely have been a Metallica . Anvil are fuckin wank either way though .

[@Nothing-bl7bj]

Na Mercyful Fate EP was probably the most influential for Metallica. It was PERFECTION

[@rhoadsmatheson2246]

Nothing Diamondhead, and Bungie were big influences in the early days as well... I've never read or heard Metallica mention Anvil in my life...

[@billybarbier8275]

On the Pantera debate, I think another thing to consider is that Thrash Metal bands typically have two guitarists.

[@odinswolf3446]

Uk thrash sabbat, onslaught, acid reign also Romanian thrash metal decease

[@petebrown3715]

I disagree Holy Grail should be there. They are thrash and putting more of a European twist on their thrash sound. Just saw them in Chicago. Put them up there boys.

[@hancelpaterno452]

Where does Sacred Reich fall into all of this? They were Thrash ... and they were relevant (enough) ...

[@thomasfarmer1730]

Yes I reckon they are...sort of like the second wave of late 80's head

[@julesgiddings8747]

I don’t relate at all to what this dude says about thrash. To me, metal was always about the melody first. Metallica and even Slayer played some amazing tunes on those earlier albums. Just making a noise seems like something anyone can do as long as you have some understanding of your instrument. I think this is why metal isn’t in the mainstream anymore.

[@marofoxx]

You missed Angelus Apatrida a band that is been arround since the earlys 2000s and that is been a huge influence here in Europe for the New Wave of European Thrash Metal.

[@JamesThomas-dz4vj]

Glad somebody on here mentioned Angelus Apatrida! Their newest album continues their amazing catalog. Thus far, my favorite album from them is "The Call", but man this newest one is so good.

[@seamonkey1979]

great band!!!

[@pantera89]

\\m//Annihilator\\m//

[@jpotter7716]

In my opinion Cowboys From Hell is the only thrash album from Pantera, with the exception of (a) song and a few riffs from Vulgar. Even Cowboys had early signs of the groove and even nu metal but it was thrash at it's core!

[@FirebirdCamaro1220]

Rise on Vulgar is definitely a thrash song

[@aaroninlatin]

Daniel recommended Exciter be on the list and now he is their guitarist. That must be amazing for him.

[@sixzerothreeonesevensixnine]

What about the UK Thrash bands, not many i know but Sabbat, Acid Reign, Xentrix

[@mvunit3]

+Mike Allen - HUGE Sabbat fan here, even their 3rd album "Mourning has Broken" :). I mention them in my post comment.

[@fmainier]

Fully support that

[@DystopianJoe]

+Mike Allen thrash was not the UK's strong point, it mostly copied the American sound and didn't really forge its own identity, although Sabbat maybe did...still, love those bands you mentioned

[@mrpositronia]

+STUART PIKE You can't discount bands because of their locations. If Kreator are on the list, then so can any other thrash band.

[@DystopianJoe]

mrpositronia yeah but the Germans kind of developed their own sound, more so than the UK bands, who never really got past imitation in most cases, even if they were technically proficient.

[@therhino5487]

i dislike how they no longer do this show

[@mrpositronia]

Sabbat!