Bard Subclass Tier List Rankings in Dungeons & Dragons

[@G-Blockster]

I think you've underestimated the Glamour Bard. My group doesn’t "run away" (okay, the wizard does), but they typically charge past the mobs to reach the lieutenant giving orders or the boss in the back hurling spells.

[@dbscarlett13]

Right! Glamour Bard is a great Battlefield Controller. They can buff allies and lock down enemies simultaneously, and grant free (no opportunity attack) movement

[@morganpetros9635]

I prefer to think of the Glamour bard as being more a mobility expediter than a retreat enabler. Sometimes it's just tactically sound to enable the paladin and the rogue to bypass all the bodyguards and go right after the BBEG without being subjected to a dozen opportunity attacks. I'm not saying this should increase the subclass score, but it seems unkind to dismiss it as "the bard that lets you run away." 😉 Creation bard, on the other hand, is likely the single most powerful bard subclass. First, Mote of Potential just flat-out improves Bardic Inspiration, meaning the bard will be giving out more inspiration dice rather than diluting them by doing other things. Then Performance of Creation lets the bard, at level 3 and for free or with a 2nd-level spell slot, do something wizards can't do until 9th level using a 5th-level spell. And though it gets better, let's not dismiss the ability to create a 5x5 foot barrier in combat. At 6th level, the Creation bard can *CREATE A FLYING MOUNT,* which essentially gives it a no-Concentration flying speed ... which can likely carry at least one other party member. And don't impugn their level 14 ability, either. With enough DM buy-in, the bard could create *A DISINTEGRATOR RIFLE AND FOUR ENERGY CELLS.* But even without that level of DM cooperation, the kinds of battlefield control hijinks you can get up to with a Huge construct can be insane ... and again, for a level 2 spell slot. I honestly can't think of a better use for a second-level spell than entrapping entire groups of enemies in a stone (or iron, or adamantine) tower with no exits ... 😈

[@dndbuilds]

Valid point on the glamour Bard, I didn't quite think about that tactical situation. And yeah creation Bard is honestly the best all-around Bard, I was so tempted to give it s teir

[@ericpeterson8732]

Your lore critique sounds like cope to me. Magical secrets is literally the most OP ability the bard class gets. Getting additional magical secrets at 6 (3rd level spells) allows you to grab fireball when it's still OP. True, you don't get extra attack, but with the right 3rd level magical secret, you don't have to have two attacks. And while there is not much difference at level 3 between jack of all trades and real proficiency, at later levels, it becomes more significant. And remember, you are not proficient at everything, so by RAW, you can't help someone with a check (outside of using bardic inspiration on them). But it's really all about additional magical secrets. There are some fantastic ranger and paladin exclusive spells that rangers and paladins can't get for 5 more levels! Conjure barrage for a bardic archer build. Spirit Guardians. Spiritual weapon. Blink (for my Nightcrawler build).

[@dndbuilds]

There are plenty of backgrounds and other ways to expand your spell list already, and The other features help, but they are just not as impactful as so many other features that other subclasses give.

[@ericpeterson8732]

And don't think I missed the fact that you used my ranger/paladin argument on the valor/swords bard. If it's great at 10th, it's even better at 6th. And on top of that, you can mock your enemies in real time to cause them to miss.

[@dndbuilds]

@@ericpeterson8732 I get that, but it is a subclass feature that could have been used for something else that's better or made a bigger difference. It doesn't really enhance your build, it just gives you more options that you have other ways to get. Valor bard getting other spells before another class can have them is only better because their 6th level features are on top of all that.

[@BJGvideos]

Wait. I disagree with his assessment that it's so low but how is that "cope"? What is that coping *with*?

[@Lostangel1000]

Glamour Bard being the Goblin Prince from The Labyrinth AKA Bowie the King of Glam. We already off to a perfect start. Creation seems a bit underestimated as that ability to create any non magical object could be insane by at lvl 6 making a Large Watchtower to have Height advantage for your ranged fighters or a Large shieldwall to animate and just block people from having LoS on you. Austin Powers as Eloquence...OHHHH Groovey Baby... Again 10/10 pick. Followed up by Volo as Lore! An eye to Volo to see the unseen!👁 Can't remember what 90s Emo band that was for Spirits Bard, but I am sure I heard whatever song that clip was from a million times when I was younger. Whispers is just Loki from the Comics or like a Scarecrow from DC, they just wanna mess with your head and make you afraid. Swords vs Valor is just basically the guy at the Ren fair playing some heroic fighter vs the guy who kills it every karaoke night at the bar who goes bow hunting every weekend.

[@dndbuilds]

You're the first person to call that out, I appreciate the recognition on that, I tried to find something fitting especially there

[@BJGvideos]

I've just been listening to this and not watching the footage and was thinking "wait he WOULD be a lore bard" before realizing oh wait it's not the Volo from Pokemon.

[@mariaTorres-xv4mi]

for creation bard, you can also inspire someone and command your creation as apart of the same bonus action. Ive been playing a creation bard in my current campaign and having an extra ally that can fly and be beefy is dope. Also not needing to buy expensive spell components and just making them is so useful.

[@dndbuilds]

It really is a top tier bard, it's an awesome subclass

[@samuelgeyman]

Eloquence should easily be S tier. They get to use their BI to lower saving throws... lowering an enemies chance to resist HUGE debuffs

[@pugking4518]

Agreed and if you multiclass into aberrant mind sorcerer and pick heightened as your metamagic spell you become very deadly on the battlefield

[@KubbleBubble]

it should be noted that swords bards blade flourishes can be used with any weapon attack, including ranged weapons, meaning theres no need to be in melee if you dont want

[@genma200sj]

Lore. It's lore. EDIT: mi duder, Lore is the strongest subclass, because they can take things like pass without trace, find steed, counterspell, and fireball with their additional magical secrets. Additionally, Cutting Words + Vicious Mockery is just rude for shutting down a single target (although I will admit that it's not as good as unsettling words from the Eloquence bard), Yes, you get magical secrets at 10th level, but 3rd level spells are arguably some of the strongest spells in the game. Finally, Peerless Skill doesn't require the skill you boost to be one you're trained in, unlike similar options from other subclasses and even other classes.

[@dndbuilds]

Oh no did the subtitles do something weird?

[@Mrryn]

Thinking that Glamour's Mantle of Inspiration is only good for running away and putting Lore as the lowest ranked Bard subclass is some of the most laughable stuff I've heard or seen in a while. It screams "never have actually played the subclass, just read and ranked" with how little thought was put into them and then ranking Valor as highly when the strongest thing of value Valor Bards get is free medium armor proficiency...something that can be picked up with a feat. Literally the only thing worthwhile in Valor, to make your Bard less squishy, the same reason why Draconic Sorcerer and Bladesinger Wizards are good - not because they can suddenly wade into melee but to let them have an extra safety net while being a full caster. And you know what's better for being a full caster? Having more options and sooner as a full caster. You can argue "oh you can expand your spell options with feats like Fey Touched" and that's fair...except Lore gets it for free and for 3rd level spells from any spell list from any school in addition to what they get in the base class. Not to mention Cutting Words being objectively more useful and versatile (not needing a specific ally to already have a die) than Combat Inspiration. Plus same argument can be used against Valor - Valor can get Fey/Shadow Touched and be objectively worse than Lore with Moderately Armored.

[@JamesRiley-fb3lg]

People see great value value in Fey Touched and Shadow touched and they give access to 2 spells, one of which is set by the feat and the other has school limitations and must be first level. The lore bards extra secrets says plunder two spells known from any list. Yeah they can get it at 10th level, but that higher level is much later in terms of actual game play. way undervalued here.

[@stevenclarke4067]

The additional magical secrets is as good as it seems. Rarely do I ever have a balanced group and those spells can help a gap in your group. Im really beginning to wonder what kind of campaign some of these content creators play...seems different than the campaigns I play

[@davea6314]

The elliquence bard and lore bard are both S tier. You're wrong, Dungeon Dudes are correct.

[@jesseseva2219]

Dude... Creative Crescendo of Creation bards can create a MINIMUM of 2 UP TO charisma bonus normally would be +5 by this point. 7:11

[@kiritotheabridgedgod4178]

Something that you haven't taken into account with the Creation Bard, that moves it up quite a bit. You use that 14th level feature, to create prohibitively expensive spell components.

[@dndbuilds]

That's true, I'm going to make sure that when I have the character sheets, they include some of the most expensive spells in the game LOL

[@kiritotheabridgedgod4178]

@@dndbuilds Best thing I've seen this used for, was a character that we thought was quite macabre. Creation bard that would take the hands of dead allies. Come 14th level, they used that feature continuously to get the components for true resurrection and revive all of our dead characters.

[@treborp4679]

I'd like to note that Lore Bard's can take Counterspell as their Additional Magical Secrets and then with Peerless Skill add an inspiration die to the check made as part of the spell.

[@Mrryn]

And Cutting Words can apply to an enemy's ability checks. Meaning you can Telekinesis an enemy and then make it even harder for them to succeed.

[@Ubermensch9240]

Tulock quit.... So I'm here to get my fix..... It's a problem.

[@sasorix2725]

Can you make the REAL Euron Greyjoy from the books?

[@duanebradway1627]

That guy could be Mario and Luigis great great grandfather. 😂🤣😜

[@dndbuilds]

That's super accurate I never even thought about that

[@shar_coal]

I can see the reasoning behind each ranking, but I do feel like some of the subclasses that use your Inspiration die as a resource might need to be re-evaluated due to the Inspiration die resetting on a Short Rest after 5th level. Depending on the subclass, that Long Rest resource turning to a Short Rest would imo bump up some of the subclasses rankings due to more usage vs PBxPD features. (I have a backup character for my current campaign that is a Shadar-Kai Divine Soul Sorcerer/Spirits Bard, but instead of being a musical bard, he's flavored as a Card Magician, using a playing card deck as his Spirit Focus, re-flavoring all the spells as him throwing cards, and the Tales from Beyond feature being messages from his ancestors/divine lineage from Sorcerer, whichever better fits him.)

[@fubukisfriend2288]

It's funny your tier list is so debated. You're saying glamour bard being the guy who wants to run away, which is totally not the case. The reason you think it is is because you want to run away with this ability. So not the glamour bard is this type of bard, but you are roleplaying as one

[@PatRiot-le7rd]

I'm sorry, but I disagree that a Valor bard is better than a Swords bard because of 2 reasons. Yes, sure Valor can be a bardcher with Swift Quiver and Sharpshooter at 10th or 12th level, but how long do you play before you get to those levels, if you even reach those levels? Second, the Swords bard can use their weapon as a spell casting focus, and they can use defensive flourish to boost their AC. Thus, they can easily either cast spells or swing swords if they end up in melee. Instead, in melee, the Valor bard is juggling either their musical instrument (or spell components) and their weapon if they are in combat and holding a shield. I think both subclasses have an equal serving of design flaws and deserve the same rank, probably a C for both of them.

[@troperhghar9898]

I've had an idea in the back of my head for a while and I wanna say it now, bard subclasses separated by instrument, like instead of Collage of Valor its Collage of horns, instead of Collage of Lore its Collage of Strings, instead of Collage of Whispers its Collage of Whistles, instead of Collage of Glammer its Collage of Bells, instead of Collage of Creation its Collage of Drums

[@Seikyuu]

That would make it so every bard has to be a musician, even though the book says a bard can be anything artistic like a painter or sculptor or an origami folder.

[@morganpetros9635]

Even if you're basing your bard on performances, there do exist performers who have *NOTHING* to do with music ... actors, poets, orators, acrobats ... ... ... MIMES, oh gods, the mimes ... 🤣

[@actuallyerik1623]

Having played a spirits bard (not creepy emo themed btw) i think the critique of the tales being tied to inspiration is not really that valid (respectfully). Thats allmost all of the bards, but the spirit tales lasts longer than most other effects like cutting words. I usually spend like 2 inspiration on tales between short rests so yes you want that charisma up early to get more, but again thats every bard. A tiny knock on the spirits bard though is the Spiritual Focus though that give 1d6 to spells cast through the focus, which actually means if the spell dont have a material component its not cast through the focus, so all the healing spells bard get naturally dont get that benefit. I think most would probably rule it as giving the benefit to everything, but by the text its a really bad feature.

[@billmcdonald5063]

New things to make wild west early American characters Like Doc Holiday, Davey Crockett, Johnny Appleseed

[@Supreme-AMVs]

why is putting mickey mouse in the video going to get a copyright strike?

[@dndbuilds]

They tend to be pretty intense about using their properties and other stuff, I'd probably be fine, but I just wanted to be careful LOL

[@Supreme-AMVs]

@@dndbuilds so would that apply to the mickey games like epic mickey being uploaded to youtube aswell?

[@dndbuilds]

@@Supreme-AMVs it's probably fine and not even anything worth worrying about how I just know they were very not happy after one of their properties became public domain with steamboat willy

[@Supreme-AMVs]

@@dndbuilds i understand now. could you build frieza from dragonball. if you can.

[@xvader9445]

That dude look like he likes pizza

[@dndbuilds]

lol, I like that idea a lot

[@billmcdonald5063]

Could you mix/combine valor and swords bard

[@dndbuilds]

I wish you could mix subclasses but unfortunately you're not officially supposed to

[@billmcdonald5063]

@@dndbuilds OK

[@rodjacksonx]

Hey, the volume on your video is really weak. Mind increasing it a bit?

[@billmcdonald5063]

But I still want the Highlander there can be only one.

[@benjaminboudreau2675]

Eloquence Bard is 🐐

[@dndbuilds]

It is pretty darn good

[@benjaminboudreau2675]

@@dndbuilds Fierna Tiefling + Eloquence Bard = Chef's Kiss

[@princephantom1294]

So no, spirits bard cannot add extra damage to vicious mockery. The feature only provides the bonus to spells cast through your special focus. Vicious mockery only requires verbal components, so it doesn’t use your focus, and doesn’t get the bonus. This is actually such a problem that if you look through the bard list, you will find less than 5 spells that actually get a bonus from this feature, and those 5 spells aren’t very good either.

[@dndbuilds]

Damn I didn't even think about the whole material component part, that's enough to probably knock it down a tier

[@jesseseva2219]

@@dndbuilds Most DM's ignore the iffy wording anyway... Castong through is like the wording for Artificers. RAW it's confusing. RAI, it probably means any bard Spells regardless of components.

[@jesseseva2219]

Good thing most people have heard opted to ignore that iffy part.. +1d6 is not much anyway.

[@jimmyhjt]

Lore bard has an advantage you're not considering. Lots of campaigns NEVER reach max level. My last one fell apart at level 5. If we had just lasted a little longer I'd have magical secrets. So an advantage of Lore is if you're campaign won't take you to max level or you're in a group that might fall apart in the early levels like me, you'll have WAY more versatility that the other types.

[@alanarnedo6663]

This vid got me thinking of some Bard builds you could do. How about Peter Pan? Custom Lineage for small size (you're a boy after all) plus a feat (a lot of feats could work, but I'd do Inspiring Leader, gotta lead those Lost Boys). For ability scores pump DEX and CHA. Subclass: Swords Bard because he's a great swordsman. Go to at least level 6 for Extra Attack. Multiclass into Warlock, Pact of the Chain Master to get access to a Sprite familiar (Tinkerbell!). Inspiring leader on a Chain Master familiar makes them so much more sturdy. Add the Aid spell on top and you've got a great little combat buddy. The Sprite doesn't do damage, but if you take the invocation 'Investment of the Chain Master' you can force enemies to make a Poison save against your spell DC as a bonus action. For Patron, thematically the one that works the most is actually the Undying Patron since Peter never ages, but Genie would give him more flight. Either could be fun!

[@eugeneroodt2309]

My guy, fell you missing the glamour bard, being able to reposition mid battle is not just for running away, add the extra hp boost. I use it way more for getting the front line stuck in, or get your back line out of direct combat. Combine that with a min of command for crowd control. Having out of combat charm ability without the risk of having the target hate you afterwards.

[@majinsole8554]

I’d prefer Valor or Creation, but it’s probably a lot of fun to play with Eloquence if you just wanna rizz all over everything 😆 ~_~

[@bluecen7986]

I once saw a bard seduce a Magic Sword and make baby daggers with it. I not sure if I should be impressed or disturbed. 🤣 Seduction is a terrifying skill. 😂😂😂

[@carlphilogene3330]

I would like to see you combine the college of spirits with an ancestral guardian barbarian

[@Zendrist-8128]

I rank them all B for Bard.

[@ginbaku5628]

Yeah this class is average...jack-of-all trades.

[@SmartCatDad]

Am I understanding this right, Valor Bard is a better choice for multiclassing with Paladin than Swords Bard? Would anyone be able to give advice on a Paladin subclass for that build?

[@dndbuilds]

If you're going to rely on a multi-class anyways, and you're multitlassing with paladin, swords Bard would probably be better. But for a pure bard build, valor is better.

[@SmartCatDad]

@@dndbuilds I don't see it as relying on anything. "Balladin" is just too good a pun to pass up.

[@dndbuilds]

@@SmartCatDad "relying" may have been the wrong choice of words, but I just mean if you're going to multi-class with paladin then of swords part is better, but for pure bard valor is the better choice.

[@morganpetros9635]

Best way to optimize Swords bard is to start with 2-4 levels of paladin. 🤣

[@dndbuilds]

Lol exactly, it's made for multi-classing, it's not great on its own

[@morganpetros9635]

Actually, Paladin 2 plus Swords Bard X is a *GREAT* multiclass. You get heavy armor and shield proficiency plus better weapons, you eventually get multiple attack, and you're a primary spellcaster, so you get *LOADS* of spell slots for Smites. Plus Defensive Flourish is basically equivalent to the Shield spell up to five times per short rest by character level 9 or so. The only way to really improve it would be to somehow shove a level of Hexblade in there so you could concentrate on improving CHA rather than CHA and STR. Besides, adding a Hex dip could give you the Shield spell, which would make your AC *INSANE* ... 😈

[@Girlhead]

Really bad takes across the board..lol