Barebow Tiller | How Adjusting Tiller Can Make You Hold Steadier

Adjusting your tiller while shooting barebow archery can make aiming EASIER if you know how to adjust it correctly. I show you how to measure tiller on your barebow, how to adjust the tiller and how to make your aiming steadier with one simple principal.
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[@faresBtoush1990]

Hey jake late comment. Audio engineer here. A quick solution for the echo is moving your mic closer to you and lowering your gain thus picking up less ambiance or getting a lav mic on your person which technically does the same thing. Trying to dampen the room works too but i assume it will take more effort and time. All the best my friend.

[@juffurey]

easiest thing would be to have a good clip on mic but it would cost more for that than installing sound absorption lol

[@justinthewildoutdoors]

Yep. Just went through this last night. Found it out on my own after having somee tuning issues. Super glad to get the validation.

[@Swilxert]

I have the Gillo GT31 and GT29 with long limbs, currently both set up with even tiller. I’ll pay attention to my aiming pattern over the next few days to see if in need to add negative tiller. Thanks for another great video, I just started out with barebow, having shot Olympic recurve for 25 years!

[@rickriegel7745]

Wow. Great information and easy to follow. Thanks for sharing.

[@redleg1013]

It's rather fortuitous that you stared making the how to videos again as my daughter has had her passion for archery re-ignited.

[@sarafayelawton652]

Thanks Jake. I'm interested in an ILF bow and had no clue what the tiller was or why it may need adjustment. But I knew you would have a video on it.

[@katherineli5973]

Jake, thank you for another very educational video. I use Gillo GT 23" w/ medium limbs, just 1/16" negative, 28lbs at fingers.

[@sweetjamhit]

Thanks Jake, funnily enough experimenting with weights this weekend, tiller is currently at negative 4mm, but might have a play - intrigued at how it will affect my grip when stringwalking which has always been a challenge. Sound is definitely better, but could probably soften a touch further if I was to be pedantic. Thanks for the video Mate, time to get tinkering.

[@kathyseymour6354]

Hi Jake, I think I will be adjusting my tiller,. I started off doing recurve when I began archery in 2017, but went barebow a year later, but have never played around with the tiller, as far as I know, mine is set up slightly wider at the top. Thanks for this video, very useful.

[@ronduck2812]

I'm getting back into shooting grew up shooting old 50s 60s recurve bows just got a ilf 25 riser all new to me your videos truly helping thank you for your time I'm 64 hoping to be able shoot Bare bow archery soon

[@romanwangwu]

i am traditional archer and I use 3 under with no tiller :) thnks 4 the video! it is great!

[@william-jameskelly3506]

Excellent information, thank you so much 😁 👍

[@user-kv6xs4mb4p]

Studio is excellent thank you . Neville Perth Western Australia

[@jerrystacey2215]

Hi Jake, I enjoy your videos, sound has improved indeed. I shoot a CD WF25x lite with long Uukha 34 lb limbs set at 35 lbs with 3/16 negative tiller. Bow holds very steady Without any arm dipping. I shoot 3 under crawl. Thank you

[@jocon6656]

Some few limbs, such as the wns explore w1 I started with, seem to have a built in positive tiller - Bottom limb stronger than the top. Flipping the limbs around - top limb in the bottom pocket ect, gets around this and provides a natural negative tiller. Just be sure to align the limbs with them swapped.

[@sukmarrasy2529]

Thank u jake for the knowlegde.....

[@jeffvanne9744]

Hi Jake, thanks for your videos. I am shooting a Prodigy RX 25" with 36lbs / 70" limbs. I did set my tiller to -3mn for 18 meters (sorry for the metrics ;) ). About tiller, what's matter is the setup that works for a range of distances (so a range on string walking) when we are not shooting always the same distance (3D or field archery).

[@weshedges5306]

I have A 7” on top 6 7/8” lower tiller. 25” Riser/ medium WNS seems to be doing OK and it’s very comfortable for me.

[@kajala11]

Hey Jake - good timing. Adjusted my tiller two weeks ago for the first time. Both limbs were initially set equally to the limb bolts set to a middle thread mount. I now tightened the top limb all the way in & moved bottom limb to a neg 1/8 & removed my lower 6oz weight. Boy did this move up my crawl by 3 full hash marks, which only works if I want to shoot 40M or lower using a crawl. I'll add the 6oz back to the bottom mount to see if it changes anything & adjust accordingly. I'll let you know. 🎯🏹🎯 The studio looks great, impressive that you got it done so quickly. It just has a little echo, a few more sound pads should do it.😊

[@Teosub63]

thank's Jack I've a gillo GX25 and i've tiller even

[@pabloaranegui2749]

Xceed and Uukha 68” with a negative tiller (-3mm / -1/8”) it’s the best tune I have found over the last year. Most important: thanks for your help JK.

[@TracyPicabia]

68" bow set up, Hoyt Alero riser pulling about 37lb on win & win ex-power limbs. 10oz weight on grip bush' 7oz on lower bush: 1/4" neg tiller. Does exactly what Jake said it would.

[@cruzbuddha]

Hey Jake - The audio in studio is improving. Still sounds like you're talking in a room with hard surfaces, but not obnoxiously so. If you have more acoustic tiles, I say use them. Carpet on the floor also helps. Pivoting to tiller... Thanks for the encouragement to play around with it! Will changing tiller affect tune very much?

[@daveeastcott9323]

Gold. Thankyou

[@user-jl2qw2st1e]

great video!

[@dannyodum46]

Hey, great job explaining tiller. Just an FYI - some people explain tiller in opposite terms, don't know why but they do. Your visual example left nothing to guess. I have also found that height of wrist grip plays into the tiller-comfort-consistency equation for some archers.

[@gyula0408]

For me it is more important what you are saying then how good it sounds.

[@destinyawaitsx3]

Hi Jake, just want to say thank you so much for your videos. I fell in love with the sport this year and it has become the perfect remedy for my anxiety. I’ve been trying to find a good coach around my area to teach me how to shoot for 3 months and I have found some but they are either too pricey or are too busy to teach me. No one has explain themselves as thoughtfully and inspired as you. I decided I’ll stay and learn in my archery club, read books on archery, workout at home & at my school gym, and most importantly binge watch your videos to be the best archer I can be! When I get good enough (and get some money) ill definitely book a lesson with you. All the best and thank you. -Tiffany

[@dsdssdsd283]

Thanks for the content! This is super interesting. I’ve always had bow shoulder fatigue which inhibit my push at full draw that really mess up my mental game. I’ve always wondered why both my risers at 17” but the one at only 8oz heavier is so much more work to hold for my bow shoulder meanwhile another 3pc recurve a full pound heavier is ok. Now that I think of it that riser has the rest closer to its center or lower compared to the other bows so keeping the same even tiller my string hand is pulling the bottom limb more.

[@dsdssdsd283]

It’s like if I draw a center line equal distance to the tiller bolts on the riser, that line is about the height of the shelf. All my other bows the center is at the pivot point of the grip.

[@MONKLJ]

Hey Jake, good video. I'm shooting a W&W Black Wolf riser and limbs complete barebow. I found that when I'm shooting, I have brace height set at 7.5", and tiller set at on top limb at 6 1/8" and bottom limb set at 6", and I'm using split finger method. I've tried three under and hate it, there's just too much vibration and noise, and too slow to set, in a hunting situation for my liking. Yes I did reverse tiller setup when tying three under. These are 40 lb limbs, and bow length is 60". This set up is perfect for target practice distances of 15yd, 18yd ,20yd, 23yd,25yd, 30yd, 35yd, and 40yd. or as a hunting bow, all my shooting is instinctive style.

[@darthlumos]

audio sounds great!

[@cB-bf4yf]

Hi jake thanks for the videos quick question for anyone that can help if you adjust to a negatuve tiller does your knock point need to go up or down cheers

[@evilryu29]

Hey Jake I enjoy your videos

[@Ganymedical]

went up from 26 to 30" today and and i noteced that the tiller split went up from -3mm (1/8") to -6mm (1/4"). guess this is due to the new limbs (lower priced, cause thats not the final weight :D ) Or I just wrote down a wrong number. netherless after some shots it is easier to hold the bow up, which was my main problem at the beginning and is still not that easy but i dont drop anymore if I go through the shot cycle correctly (more or less, only shooting since june and barebow since beginning of septembre maybe). So my split is 1/4". Thanks for the good work, you are basically my online coach due to the lack of coaches in germany xD

[@aveotuotroyo]

Thanks Jake. Buen video, precisamente queria saber en que podia afectar ( para bien o para mal) cambiar esas medidas

[@RacielDiaz]

Thanks so much for this video! I’m a beginner Barebow shooter and i didn’t realize that I needed to adjust my tiller until my friend measured it - the bottom measurement was way less than the top. When I finally followed my bow’s manual on adjusting the tiller, I got it close to equal. After watching this video, I think I’m going to try your recommendation and go for a higher number on the bottom. I noticed, though, that you can adjust your tiller while strung? I have a cheapy Decut Basha Pro and the manual recommends unstringing before adjusting the tiller. Is that a manufacturer specific thing or in general, can I safely adjust my tiller while strung?

[@thephoenicianarcher5267]

Thank you brother for the info what tiller is best for shelf shooting a Samick 3 piece recurve

[@raystone26]

Thanks!

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Thank you!

[@dnakoldarkside6358]

i use 1/4 inch split tiller on my olympic recurve. less distance at bottom limb.

[@mcdougles]

Are you doing dynamic tillering aslo? Take a picture of the bow at full draw and compare the line of limb tips and the riser.

[@7echoseven7]

sound is good.

[@brunoheitor2839]

Video sound has definitely improved. This reverb that is still giving is acceptable. If you want to remove it completely without needing hardware, just use the Izotope RX7 onwards.

[@eointimlin8823]

Mybo Elite at 36lbs at 68" with 6mm negative tiller seems to be working quite well at the moment

[@bartoszbachor8332]

What does the "negative filler" means? Does IT mean that the lower tiller is bigger than the upper one??

[@eointimlin8823]

@@bartoszbachor8332 Tiller is normally measured top distance minus bottom distance. Like you said the lower tiller distance is bigger than the upper one. Hope that helps!

[@bartoszbachor8332]

@@eointimlin8823 im my case lower tiller is about 6 mm bigger than the top one, so does it mean that i have negative tiller 6mm, am i rights? Sorry about so basic questions but after years of shooting compounds i decided to try something without wheels. Thanks for a help.

[@srmjr4200]

Thanks for the video Jake. As always, very helpful and clarifying. As for the audio, it’s better but it could use some more dampening. You have a few choices. you can either add more sound dampening to the walls, start using a Lav mic or use a dedicated higher quality directional mic run or off the camera or on it. If you run it off the camera then you’ll have to sync sound that will be a hassle for you given your style of recording. Any of the Rode NTG series would be a good place to start. Personally, the NTG 2 would be just fine for your needs. Again, as always, thanks for the video!

[@Garuda16]

Or Sennheiser 416... but a bit pricey

[@thenubianarcher9720]

Great information! I am somewhat new to barebow. I shoot split finger ( I know I need to learn to shoot three under ) WIll even tiller benefit more for split finger shooters?

[@Hybridesque]

Currently running Zero tiller on my Gillo GT25 with long limbs (32lb). Have set my Gillo GQ25L with long 38lb limbs with -3mm tiller but won't be shooting that yet.

[@jameswilson5135]

Jake, Good Morning! Thanks for you tiller video- a big help. I just purchased a Gillo GX 25" riser and medium uukha limbs. I am new to barebow. I have negative 3/8" top and so far good groups at 11 yards and some good groups at 20 yards. I just purchased a Spigerlli rest and plan on a better than a $16.00 plunger. I find the plunger wire bending already. what is best - Beiter or AAE plunger? Jeff Hiotakis says hello from CT. Thanks so much, Jim Wilson

[@Bogenschuetze]

The best Archery Content online I could ever find. But some german barebow guys have another thinking. If you look at slow-motion shots of the shot being fired, you can see that the lower limb pulls first, until the lower limb forms a frictional connection with the upper string behind the arrow. Only then does the arrow start moving. This position could be relevant for the tiller. This seeems to be very logical, but I have more trust in your Information.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Of course that’s what happens. But you can adjust nocking point to compensate.

[@johnfcockrell]

I was using a negative 1/4” tiller, but then I got new limbs and as I adjusted the bow weight to get the arrows to tune I ended up with even tiller and didn’t even realize it for weeks. I don’t know if I’m just big and strong enough that such a change isn’t noticeable or what the deal is. I’m a big dude shooting 38 lbs and 72” bow. Been sticking with even tiller but I may adjust it to see if I notice a difference when I’m actually paying attention to it.

[@joemason6703]

Would going to a lower wrist grip angle also make a difference with the bow balance at full draw?

[@ricardokern7037]

Olá Boa noite Acabei de inscrever no seu canal Sou praticante de barebow aqui no Brasil Parabéns pelo canal e excelente os seus vídeos

[@nickv61]

Audio is great

[@steves.5342]

Have you tried using some acoustic foam on the walls? It will kill off any hollow/echo sound.

[@rondonato7443]

Can I set up a Samick journey with a wood riser for barebow? It is a simple takedown bow without limb adjustment.

[@Taborq]

There is an Italian and Swedish school ... there is no Polish one yet, I am currently shooting on an equal tiller, I have tried different ones, but the best one for me, there is also the issue of equipment ...

[@raystone26]

I have a 25" Mybow Eliete with Long 38lb win C2 limbs am holding 43lb at fingers. I shoot TRAD. 3 finger under touching the arrow at each distance. My tiller is even!

[@danielragbir6051]

Good

[@milrtp101]

Still need some acoustic treatment. You probably already know, but check out GIK Acoustics.

[@randallkadish5663]

Can I adjust the tiller on a Samick Sage by adding washers?

[@Garuda16]

I think the acoustics are better. Still a little "hard", but I think better for sure. One of my many careers before retiring was as a voice over artist and I was in many studios. There's a definite improvement to my ear Jake.

[@theinternationalhobo001]

I've been playing with tiller for a few months now, and just can't get it right, for some reason I am having the opposite issue where I have to fight to get the point down, I keep drifting up. I was a even tiller, went down to negative 1/4 inch, and right now at 1/8 positive tiller but still pulling up. Right now im setting up my outdoor set up so I'm on nock to 1/4" below nock on draw. I'm using a 25" hoyt riser with long ukka vx limbs and a 36 ouch brass weight that puts my bow perfectly even balance on a finger when holding it up by the grip. I know it could be a mental issue but what do you think?

[@supiyana9127]

huh..kinda opposite with me. 66" bow and im on positive tiller. easier to hold steady and less pressure on my bottom finger when stringwalking compared to even tiller & my grouping improved too. I've only went from even to positive so might try this negative tiller thing and see where it goes. never shot olympic recurve, went straight to barebow :)

[@TrollRabbit]

Even tiller causes my bow to rise when I draw from my 20yd crawl (I taped a toothpick to the riser as a sight) Having a 1/4" bigger tiller on bottom keeps the sight (toothpick) on the target as I draw.

[@jamezors667]

Still a bit of echo, in my studio I built some cheap absorbers using 1x4's, Rockwool, and some fabric. If you just want to test it you can grab a bag of insulation (ideally rockwool) and just lean the bag up against a wall till the echo goes away. In my studio which is 15' x 9' I needed four 6'x2'x3.5" wall absorbers and one 4'x2'x5.5" cloud right over where I am talking.

[@Galkac]

gread content

[@user-fh6jj6od3d]

Hi Jack! So it turns out that for barebow you need to increase the lower shoulder of the bow a little tiller? Right?

[@sjohn_8627]

Is a Hoyt satori a collet design

[@sjohn_8627]

Have you ever went to tighten down the limb set screw and your limb bolt actually started to turn just as it got snug???

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Yes. Especially on collet designs

[@roost4u]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but my brace height range from the manufacturer is big. I can't remember exactly right now but it's around 7mm I think. Should I play with the brace height before adjusting the tiller? My bow does sound loud now and I have not twisted the string at all. The brace height is within the correct range but on the low side. I can probably increase the height by 5mm before going out of the recommended range. I guess it's not an option to decrease it without getting a different string. sorry if I'm not making sense. Forgot to mention I have a neutral tiller now.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Really doesn’t matter at this point where you start, both changes won’t affect each other all that much.

[@roost4u]

@@JakeKaminskiArchery just wanted to say thanks again for the lesson. Not sure if you remember me but I was there over Christmas. I've been applying what you told me and I'm now grouping the size of a softball at 18 meters. We spent such a short time together but it made a huge difference.

[@Montenegroarcher]

Hi Jake. Please, did i understand correctly. I'm a barebow archer. Is it better to shoot a negative tiller? Should the distance between the lower limb and string be greater than the upper limb and string by 1/4 inch? Best regards

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

Correct

[@Montenegroarcher]

@JakeKaminskiArchery thank you Sir

[@juffurey]

What?? I know you like the weight, but I thought you'd have at least one carbon riser your wife could use! And actually what I do to adjust tiller is I use an allen wrench to put under the lip of the tiller bolt and lower the bolt it until it barely touches, that way I know exactly how much I screw it in or out.

[@graubaertigernutzer1326]

Thanks for the Vid. Excuse me, can someone tell me how far you can unscrew the tiller screws on a "WNS Vantage AX 25"? I didn't get an instruction manual for the riser.

[@johnscranton8365]

Your audio is 'bright', which I like (old ears hear 'bright' better)...

[@social3ngin33rin]

Audio sounds fine. The echo is so close to your speech that it almost doesn't exist. Thankfully, the mic doesn't pick up the echo very well.

[@HelmutWeiss1]

Sound quality: still echo. You can improve that nit only by dampening, but also by using a lavlier microphone. Possibly easier that way

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

I hate those mics I always bump them and never realize how much I have to cut out till it’s too late haha. I have a rode on the camera. Will add more dampening.

[@jamezors667]

I don't think any mic is going to help in this situation, its a long skinny room with nothing on the walls.

[@tuomolaakso1529]

@@JakeKaminskiArchery Just hanging a carpet or a blanket behind your camera might do the trick. Sounds a bit dumb, bit it does kill echoes very efficiently.

[@bubba192]

Audio quality is much much better.

[@mcdougles]

The fact is, in case of barebow you can set your tiller to work only for one distance. If it works well for 50m, then it will be out for 5m. So, you should decide on which distance should it work the best for you. For the distance where you want to collect more points. If you shot well for further distances even if your tiller is not set well, then fine tune the tiller for shorter distances and vica versa.

[@expertssay3869]

Studio sounds good. You're not in a sound booth and you'd talk quieter if you were. If you're happy at the level you speak to beat the echo that's fine. I've heared worse!

[@aeonarchery4539]

Different limbs,riser different tillers......

[@alanchelnick8148]

Tightening or backing off tiller adjustments while under tension when bow is strung can't be good for the threads on the riser. To much fiddling with adjustments under tension will not be good

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

In my experience, small adjustments can be made but a complete turn.... not so much.

[@jps6800]

Acoustics are much better.

[@nenadstanojevic1427]

In regards to your wifes riser, you would be much better of taking that weight off the riser, and putting a ballance rod out in the distance with a much much smaller weight. You will need to calculate the wight. I would not ever put heavy weights near the riser itself, unless you are shooting in strong winds. The correctional torque of rhe ballance rod whould be just as effective, but (without the heavy weight). Your wife would not need to struggle holding the riser weight. You are welcome.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

This is her barebow, as is the guide for the tiller adjustment to fit the class of barebow. Stabilizers are not allowed and the riser must fit through a 12.2cm ring with all the accessories attached. Thanks for the suggestion, but this would not fit the rules of the barebow category.

[@BruceEEvans1]

Still kinda echo-y.

[@manfredwilczek5922]

Warum wird nicht ins deutsche übersetzt, warum bekommt man keine Antwort.

[@andreask.654]

Forgive me, but I think you have started to rush a little bit through your content. I know what you were talking about (basically just seeking for confirmation), but it wasn't really easy for me to follow your explanation. Shorter, longer, positive, negative, more weight, less weight... Though maybe that's just me, as I am not a native speaker.

[@delcat8168]

"Tillering" LMAO ! Try making a self bow, THAT is "tillering". What you are doing is just set up.

[@JakeKaminskiArchery]

I was just adjusting tiller, so yeah setting up! One day I'll build a bow.