Baroque Music Myths DEBUNKED!

[@brandonacker]

Learn more about playing Baroque music on guitar from my one hour workshop here: arpeggiato.com/guitar-workshop-13/ or Watch over 30 plus hours of past workshops at my online school: arpeggiato.com/workshop-archive/

[@DavidPaulfanClub]

You are by far one of the masters and (Very Impressive!) .. I'm a fingerstyle guitarist in the vain of Chet Atkins. I have a new release 8-20 after several yrs of being away from a Brain tumor I do several Classical pieces in my new album. Would you do a review of those pieces for your fee honestly. I don't proclaim to be at your level but it would be a great honor if you would consider it. Your review would be very helpful to the fellow philistines in your world. Rgds David Paul

[@peterlovett5841]

I have sitting on my bookshelf a book, "The Interpretation of Early Music" by Robert Donington to which I was referred by a classical guitarist who used to post on KZbin. The single biggest point I have taken away from that book is that baroque composers expected that performers would adorn their music extensively. Very few composers from that period were as detailed in their compositions as later composers; this could extend to tempo as well as the more conventional adornments such as trills, slurs and the like.

[@fretgut]

You hit most of my GC pet peeves but I still hear many classical guitarists play their baroque trills "from below" rather than starting as an appoggiatura from above. It's even written out from below in some CG transcriptions. For a great demonstration of how to add ornaments tastefully to Bach, have a listen to the harsichord performances of Christine Schornsheim. Several available on KZbin through the Netherlands Bach Society

[@brandonacker]

Oh yes, I should have mentioned this!

[@Deinareia]

I am trained in flute, not guittar. But I was always taught to first consider the time-period of the piece before deciding if a trill start from below or from above. Over the years, I can definitely har the diference!

[@seth094978]

​@@Deinareia I never knew they started anywhere other than the upper note. Of course trills seldom occur in tuba music!

[@RothBeyondTheGrave]

This is interesting. I suppose I never noticed how in most forms of rock and metal, the trills are often from below. Any time a trill from above is introduced, it seems to have a unique character and sets itself apart in a way. In my head, I always thought I was "being more baroque" when I trilled from above simply due to the tonal characteristics. I never considered the historical relevance or lack thereof but I certainly will now.

[@thewildcellist]

Great video! I'm a cellist, and totally get - and appreciate - what you're saying about vibrato! A Baroque music myth I see perpetuated is the notion that in the music of that era, dynamics were always "terraced," e.g. no crescendos/decrescendos. While it's true that the hairpin notation to indicate them wasn't a thing at the time, composers for example writing "P" followed immediately by "PP" WAS a thing, and what that actually sounds like in practice is - yup - a decrescendo. A composer who did this early on (well before Domènec Terradella, who's cited as the first to use cres/dim indications in his opera, _Bellerofonte_ in 1747) is Georg Philipp Telemann. Telemann was a very well known composer in his day. Fun asides: Telemann holds the world record for most pieces written by anyone, ever. Bach OVERTLY borrowed from him (likely with Telemann's blessing). Bach also named his most famous son after Telemann (The "P" in C.P.E is for "Philipp"); Telemann was also C.P.E.'s godfather, at Bach's behest. I think the fact that Telemann did it helps give those early examples of cres/dim markings some extra cred.

[@jameslouder]

As I said before, this is a fine video. But I do have to point out one thing that shocked me: the instrument that pops up at 7:13 isn’t a Lautenwerk! Or rather, it’s no Lautenwerk that Sebastian Bach would have recognized-nor anyone else in earlier times. The gut-strung lute-harpsichord is first described in the early 16th century (S. Virdung 1511) and it continues to be mentioned until the 1770s. The only things the descriptions have in common is that the instrument was shaped much like any other harpsichord; also that it was very difficult to keep in tune; but that the sound was sweet and very like a lute. Modern Lautenwercke in this traditional Flügel shape have been built by Willard Martin, Keith Hill, Steven Sorli, and perhaps others. I only know their work from recordings, so I will express no opinion on how well they’ve succeeded. The bowl-bodied Lute-harpsichord that appears in this video is a work of modern imagination. Conceived by one Gergely Sárközy and built for him by his countryman, the luthier Tihamer Romanek, it is like nothing known in the past. As such, it may be judged on its own terms. Or one may abstain from judging… It's very unfortunate that these gentlemen have chosen to call their creation a "Lautenwerk", suggesting the historic instrument redivivus. It’s nothing of the sort. When it comes to Bach and the Lautenwerk, the only information we have comes from J. Friedrich Agricola, a footnote in Jacob Adlung's Musica mechanica organoedi (1768): "The author of these notes remembers about the year 1740 in Leipzig, having seen and heard a lute-harpsichord [Lautenclavicymbel] designed by Mr. Johann Sebastian Bach and executed by Mr. Zacharias Hildebrandt, which was *smaller than the ordinary harpsichord*, but in all other respects like any other harpsichord. It had two sets of gut strings, and a so-called little octave [Octävchen] of brass strings. It is true that in its regular setting (that is, when only one stop was drawn) it sounded more like the theorbo than like the lute. But when that stop which on harpsichords is called the Lute stop ... was drawn with the Cornet [4' ?] stop, it was almost possible to deceive even professional lute players. + We may recall that Bach still owned two of these harpsichords at the time of his death. He also owned a lute... ________________________ +David, H.T & Mendel, A.; The New Bach Reader, Wolff, C. rev. & exp. (Norton, NY 1998); p 366

[@Trelaire]

If we, harpsichordists, could make our trills on only one string we would do it as well ! I think lute/guitare was more an inspiration for harpsichord than harpsichord for lute and guitare.

[@hnrysml]

I am not a stringed instrument player but some of my favourite performances to watch on youtube recently have been evangelina mascardi playing bach on the lute, and I notice that in addition to using vibrato lyrically, she uses the right hand for mordents in a kind of keyboard style and the left hand for a long drawn out trill at the end of a passage

[@brandonacker]

She's fantastic. Right hand mordents are historical and all over baroque lute music. It is a great sound for cadential figures. But trills have a different function (an extended appoggiatura) and were not played cross string historically.

[@joshhigh5538]

I've been playing a little less than a year now and this video with this man saying it's okay to play the damn song. Total game changer

[@NickKouls]

Fantastic video Brandon ! As someone who plays Bach's BWV 1000 fugue every day to prepare for my guitar degree I found this video extra interesting ! I actually really like the 2 string trills more than the hammer on/pull off ones on this piece tbh 😊 Keep up the amazing work man!

[@hendarinfb]

Interesting ….. When I was young, I was a classical guitar student, and what Brandon Acker stated about myths or wrong beliefs in Baroque music for classical guitar, My teacher told me the same thing, just like that, especially no vibrato on baroque pieces, which is for me kind of weird because when I listened to Bach’s Lute Suite IV played by John Williams, I heard quite a lot of very beautiful small vibratos, but I never challenged my teacher’s statement

[@1firstguitar]

Brandon, I love that you've tackled these misconceptions, and taken a bold stand for them in the comments. I totally agree and appreciate your doing this, the number of comments show you've made a great impression. This might be for another discussion, but the prevalent Baroque practice of dotting/double dotting the quarters and eights could be another myth dispelled. For example, I personally find how rhythmically straight the Bach Chaconne is typically played makes it sound wooden and stilted. I'd also ask you to comment on whether the Renaissance practice of melodic "divisions" could also be employed as a valid ornamentation practice in the Baroque as well (as I do). Thank you for replying to the many posts--it really has added more insight and conviction to your positions!

[@brandonacker]

Thanks, William! I really appreciate that. Overdotting is definitely a thing but it is contextual. Its often referred to as the French Overture style. Theres also inegale which is a whole wonderful spectrum of swing. There's a time and place to use it but if it's supposed to be there and isn't, you are right it sounds mechanical. The Renaissance practice of divisions was carried over into the Baroque and I've heard called Passagi. Yes it is used all over the place and can be very beautiful. Cheers, Brandon

[@1firstguitar]

@@brandonacker Thanks so much for addressing my comments. I'm adding another separate question in the comment section on a different topic.

[@songfulmusicofsongs]

Thank you for this great video. It's very helpful. I find the baroque period very fascinating, because the music was already very complex, but the improvisation school was still alive. Some of these things I already knew, but it's very different to know about these things, from actually hearing how it was performed and used.

[@Wizam007]

Plz start a podcast. Love listening to you talk about anything and everything music!

[@Lantrix]

I’m a self taught baroque and renaissance player of lute music on a classical guitar, for about 20 years now. I’ve never learnt actual classical guitar methods. The trill has always made sense to be played with my left hand when imitating a lute piece I’ve heard. Would love to have a real baroque or renaissance lute to play on the actual instruments.

[@lilylute1248]

That no slur one gets my goat. How arrogant do you have to be to never look at a facsimilie EVER??? Literally more slurs than a gaming convention. The one I heard from my professors was the cross-string trill thing. What's funny is that even after I played the lute he still wouldn't believe me about that. The ego on some of these professors is astounding.

[@devoicedmusic]

"Literally more slurs than a gaming convention."...and more trills than a star trek convention.

[@lilylute1248]

@@devoicedmusic I'm not a trekkie so I'll have to take it on your word that's a funny joke.

[@adamlane6453]

​@@lilylute1248 name for a species of humanoid from a planet of the same name. 🖖

[@danawinsor1380]

Thank you Mr. Acker! This most interesting. Your points about vibrato will be usefull for all instrumentalists. Regarding "not using slurs," I have never once heard that, so as you can imagine I was surprised. One can find countless slurs in scores from the 18th century.

[@brandonacker]

You're welcome! I think the anti-slur mentality comes from players who use absurdly high tension guitars and who are attempting to play very fast and loud. Slurs don't work well on those instruments. Also, they often has the stylistic approach of a flamenco guitarist with impressive machine gun scales. So if you think this sounds great, it's easy to play Bach this way as well.

[@allanjmcpherson]

I've definitely heard the no slurs one too in reference to recorder music. But it's not that recorder players didn't slur. It's that articulations generally weren't marked. It was assumed the player would choose their own articulations.

[@kithg]

This is really interesting, and the article on Bach’s lautenwerk is amazing. I have often thought that the cello suite pieces sound better on the guitar than on the cello. (I know - heresy!) If they were both written on a lautenwerk, that would explain a lot. Also, the bit about a two string slur sounding more like a keyboard instrument. Thanks for an interesting video and for listing your sources.

[@brandonacker]

The cello and violin suites were certainly written for those instruments and are quite idiomatic. I was only referring to the so called "lute suites."

[@kithg]

@@brandonacker Are you referring to the cello music the Cassals found in Spain?

[@brandonacker]

I'm referring the well-known violin and cello partitas. Ex: BWV 1007

[@aprilkarcz8703]

Thank you for the education. I learned by ear so hearing the explanations and history is great. Plus your voice is soothing🥰

[@virginielafrench3921]

Oh yes ! I wish i was as relaxed as Brandon can be but nature decided otherwise

[@edmarft]

Great video, thanks! I've been thinking a lot about the cross-string trills, here are some ideas... I agree that it's a modern technique, and try to force it in early music is anachronistc (although early music in classical guitar may already be a bit, I think). And a lot of players do this technique in a flashy and loud way, on the oposite spectrum of the slured trill. But maybe we can do it in a soft manner (I find that using just i,m and a it's easier to control), and use it like a substitute for when a slured trill might be impractical, but the music would benefit. The arrangements we have to make to play music writen for other instrumentes puts us in that position. But, well, we can't play the bass lines like on a baroque lute, but we work around to bring the beauty in that music with other resources. Also, about the 2 notes ringing together, planting the fingers in one string right when playing the other alleviates this excess. Love your work man, learned so much from you!

[@finnmcool2]

This is a fun coincidence. I'm learning some Sanz pieces on ukulele and have been unsure how to ornament them. Vibrato and trills should be within my reach. Thank you.

[@marydowns2736]

Great comments ! I agree.

[@thorstenfriedrich]

I love your videos, thanks a lot!

[@brandonacker]

Thank you, Thorsten! You're very kind

[@essencelove9130]

Such a wonderful video! Thank you💙💛

[@shatsbird]

All so very interesting! Perhaps the whole 'authentic' baroque performance paradigm itself needs debunking; after all there have been many great musically satisfying performances of Bach in the more nineteenth century Romantic style too! Even if you read the many treatises like quartz and musicologists like Donington etc, there are confusing contradictions about the execution of details. I think information and informed knowledge are incumbent on musicians, but not to be bound by the so called rules. What we have are the notes, rhythms and the scores, but the expression of the Affects and the emotional content is ultimately more important!

[@picksalot1]

Good myth busting! I like the use of slurs in Renaissance and Baroque music, and it's reassuring to see them written in the original scores, as is the use of vibrato. Classical guitar fretting hand thumb myth related: In Fernando Sor's "Method for the Spanish Guitar" p12, he wrote "I observed that most guitarists had only half the hand before the fingerboard, ..." It is accompanied with a sketch of a hand position with the thumb over the bass side of the neck, often used by most Electric Guitar players. Sor goes on to explain why it is better to have the thumb on the back of the neck, and also relates an interesting conversation he had with a guitarist that used the thumb over the neck technique. It should be noted that the size of the "Romantic Guitar" from the time of Sor was smaller than Modern Classical guitars, and had a shorter sting length as well. In an unrelated curiosity, there are some pieces by Sor, where the 6th string is tuned up a half-step to F, two of which are Op. 35, #12, and Op. 36, #5.

[@StephiSensei26]

Well done Brandon. The Musicology aspect and Historical background of our beloved instrument (and its family), are very much lacking in its complete appreciation. Thank you for bringing it to the fore.

[@FranciscoValentino]

About the trills. I think is a matter of taste and functionality, depends on the piece, depends what the trill is for, according to the rhetorical moment of the piece. Is also important to consider the characteristics of our instrument, we play guitar not Lute, and as the barock musicians were doing, we have to adapt the piece to the possibilities of our instrument. Anyway, I saw this video by accident, and I found important the job you're doing. Bravo!

[@brandonacker]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Francisco! If you like them and don't mind that they are not historical, of course no one is stopping you and the early music police won't show up at your door ;) Since I play guitars and lutes, I find the slurred trills work just as well on modern guitars as Baroque guitars. All you need to do is play with lower tension strings to improve your slurs. Therefore, I don't see a point in reinventing a technique well established for hundreds of years. I think modern guitarists do it to emulate keyboards but if we are going to emulate a Baroque instrument why wouldn't we stick with the Baroque guitar and lute?

[@FranciscoValentino]

@@brandonacker thanks for the answer. As I told you before, is a matter of taste, it has not to do with well informed historical performance (that is another topic, in this video you speak about it, till the trill part 🤣). The guitar, has a different technique than lute, specially in the right hand and yes, we reinvented the way to play, we don't place the little finger at the top, we changed the movement of the Daumen, the figetta isn't anymore the basis of the performance, and even now, there are different approaches on how to play. We play barock music for many instruments, not just for lute (you mentioned the lautenwerk), in many passages the slur trills are meaningless, but in others they are just better (we could have musical or technical reasons). In conclusion: we play guitar and is pointless to pretend to sound as another instrument, is also pointless to take out a technical resource we have (here I remark again that the barock musicians were adapting the music to the technical possibilities of the instrument).

[@nurembergcode6148]

I am familiar for many years with all of these ideas and you did a nice job of sorting them.

[@pilotEJE]

It's always a good day when you upload 🥰

[@virginielafrench3921]

Yes ,i agree ! 😉 Even when i don 't understand because i NEVER played any kind of guitar ! 😋😊

[@SO-ym3zs]

The musicology is interesting, but I have to say, too, that your guitar tone is beautiful in this video.

[@brandonacker]

Thank you kindly!

[@SO-ym3zs]

One minor quibble: on electric guitar, a relatively subtle vibrato can be achieved with a technique similar to yours on classical guitar, not just the exaggerated string bending technique you demonstrate.

[@brandonacker]

Yes, of course it's a spectrum and depends on taste. But generally electric guitars do vertical vibrato and classical guitarists use horizontal vibrato.

[@SO-ym3zs]

@@brandonacker Quite right. I mention it because it's how I generally tend to do it. Being both a rock and classical nerd, I probably subconsciously emulated orchestral string players when I taught myself guitar and had to figure it out on my own!

[@tymime]

While not specific to Baroque music, I had a music professor once tell me that you can never change the tuning of the double bass. Like you can't just reach over with your hand and adjust it.

[@mistaowickkuh6249]

I absolutely despise half step up and downs, chromatic movements if you will, which last for measures, sometimes half a page even and I have to replace them with some sequence which fits the tonality. Nothing too crazy of course, something simple to serve the transition purpose. I don't understand why it used to send my teacher into a rage like it did. I certainly don't mind my own students trying to add to this heritage. This is music, not engineering or medicine. You can not do it so wrong that it ends up hurting or killing somebody! Cheers for experimentation!

[@YouTubeHandlesAreMoronic]

Thank you. I never liked the sound of the cross-string trill, and now I know why.

[@twokool4skool129]

I learned the point about the Lute Suite the hard way after trying to play it on a baroque lute. Transposing it to D Minor and rearranging some bass notes makes it playable, but it's still quite challenging.

[@mer1red]

Composers used an use a lot of non standardized annotations as a shorthand for ornamentations and other things. One should be very careful about concluding: this is a sign indicating a vibrato (in the sense we use it today). Some baroque works even use one sign to say: do something here, whatever you like. We have no sound recordings of that time. Text descriptions use words as 'tremulo', some say it means vibrato. Does it? Yes, the vibrato was probably used for the violin and similar string instruments, as some works of that time suggest. Personally I will never use vibrato on guitar because for me it disturbs the essence of that music. I use a limited number of ornamentations that were clearly established during that era. Second remark. A bowed line connecting notes of different pitches, called a slur, means simply 'play it legato' or indicates a grouping and phrasing of a passage. Now, playing legato on a guitar does not automatically mean hammer ons, pull offs. You can play legato in different ways on a guitar. some of them seem to me better suited for baroque than hammer on / pull off. Regarding the second option: the addition of structure to a composition is one of the novelties introduced during that era.

[@brandonacker]

Thanks for the added nuance! A few details: In lute and guitar music from the baroque period, 99% of the time, the line connecting notes does mean to slur. About ornaments, yes composers used different symbols so you can't apply the same notation to each composer. But in Sanz and others the sharp symbol does mean vibrato. They write a key in the preface which is how we know what they want. To not use vibrato as an ornament in Baroque music, as they did, is to really miss out on a great exclusive tool, in my opinion. Cheers, Brandon

[@mer1red]

@@brandonacker My point was that 'a slur' in general is legato or an indication of a structural element (a phrase, a grouping). To implement legato on a guitar, different techniques are possible, not only hammer ons - pull offs. This is according to many consulted references, although opinions differ. It would be strange to say 'to play legato you must hammer on'. Many courses of masters would then be plainly wrong or inconsistent. I've never heard that the lute is an exception to this.

[@dbadagna]

The vibrato Callas uses on the long notes in the example you provide seems to measure somewhere between 140 to 180 cents from peak to trough (getting wider near the end of the clip), thus somewhere between a half step and a whole step. Regarding the selective ornamental vocal vibrato used in the Baroque and early Classical periods (called the "close shake" in English-language sources of the time), treatises of that period say it should be modeled on the modest, sparingly used ornamental vibrato used by violin or trumpet players (which probably measured no more than 30 cents from peak to trough, and more likely somewhere between 10 and 25 cents). Today, most operatic singers singing Baroque repertoire such as Handel operas or Bach cantatas typically use more or less constant vibrato measuring between 150 and 300 cents (and, in the most egregious cases, up to 340 or 350 cents), which is up to 10 times wider than that used when the music was created. For that reason, I don't think it's helpful to use the same term ("vibrato") to describe both the gentle, sparingly employed pitch fluctuation used in the 18th century and the massively wide vocal wobble that most of today's operatic singers habitually use, even when singing Baroque repertoire where it's totally anachronistic and harmful to the music itself.

[@athtarasterios9695]

I'm sorry, but do you sing? I'm genuinely curious, because you can neither control the width nor the speed of a natural vibrato.

[@stoneagedjp]

In my view, with cross-string trilling, the notes continue to ring for a beautiful dissonance, an effect which is certainly worth aiming for. When young, I believed that dissonance was not allowed in classical music. In fact, it's the opposite, and it is used masterfully in lots of compositions.

[@brandonacker]

Well resolved dissonance is very beautiful in baroque music. More dissonance isn't good by default. A trill is an ornamented appoggiaturq with an emphasis on the upper note, the dissonance, and a soft resolution to the main note. A slurred trill as all lutes, violins, and guitars did achieves this. The cross string spoils it and therefore can be said to be less stylistic for Baroque music.

[@somedude1129]

I studied CG in college but came from a more loose jazz/blues/folk background. In my music history classes, wed learn about how performers were expectrd to add ornamrntation, etc. Then CG faculty would say No! Play it as is! Similar with the slurs. I dont get it. Like do they think Baroque players hadnt figured out how to slur yet? Its just natural. Personally i always thought the cross string trills sounded much more crowded and convoluted than single string. Im glad to hear your thoughts on these subjects too.

[@brandonacker]

Hi Juney, that is sad to hear that faculty at a university were so ignorant. Unfortunately it's common in the classical guitar world.

[@christianvahlbruch1996]

Thank you, thank you!!! I was tearing my brain out learning cross string trills, now I can take it a little easier :-) . And I must say I enjoy an electric style vibrato on the acoustic even now and then with classical/baroque stuff. Maybe not historical accurate, but to me it sounds nice. And it opens a couple more opportunities.

[@erikgrundy]

Regarding Baroque improvisations: I've found that, as I've become more comfortable with the Baroque pieces, there are certain ornamentations that I consistently add - a trill on the highest note at the end of a phrase, an addition that I've enjoyed from other players' performances, etc. How often would you say your improvisations are ones that you genuinely improvise in the moment, as opposed to ones you have settled in to playing the same way each time?

[@brandonacker]

Yes, I think much of what we talk about in terms of improvisation is really about memorizing formulas that one then chooses spontaneously in performance. So yes my ornaments can change from performance to performance.

[@Tylervrooman]

Great video Brandon!

[@marcosalmeida3912]

Great lecture! Thanks for the mythbusting information. 😊

[@Cognosapien]

Very interesting! Well done

[@DrewHendersonGuitar]

Big thumbs up for this video!!!

[@brandonacker]

Thanks, Drew!

[@louislascaud]

Great video ! I'm rather interested in popular guitar practices in Europe during the XIXth century until the end of the Belle Époque. Do you have some pointers (people, channels, books, documents, theses... )?

[@Fassislau]

My guilty pleasure as a classical guitar is to make trills cross string. They sound SO GOOD, once you learn the technique and how impressive it sounds, it's hard to go back to "normal slurs" :P

[@brandonacker]

"Impressive" perhaps but "Baroque?" Definitely not.

[@kierongilfillan7783]

Hi brandon I love your videos you ensured me I play classical guitar

[@EmiTheyThem]

I hope you can someday make a video to detail every period and their instruments, ornamentations, famous composers, etc.

[@TheElderOne28]

I have a video idea for you to do with Marshal Brune. I would be interested to learn about building techniques, bracing, doubletops and the sound differences between them.

[@RechtmanDon]

I may be creating a myth here: I'm a classical neo-romantic composer unversed in classical guitar technique. I therefore consider myself unqualified to write music for guitar! In my defense (sort of), Tchaikovsky was notoriously poor at writing for the harp; his single Nutcracker harp part has to be played by two harpists, as its physically impossible for only one harp to handle the chromatic requirements. (I have written successfully for harp!) So here's the question: what can you tell us about non-guitar-savvy composers who may have written for the guitar, and what would you suggest for a non-guitarist who would like to write for guitar?

[@louisebeaudry3263]

Very interesting and informative video, thank you !

[@1firstguitar]

Brandon, after reading through all the comments below, I'm now wondering whether it couldn't sound appropriate to use cross-string trills when playing a Bach keyboard work on guitar, as this form of execution would more closely mimic the sound of a keyboard trill. Would love your thoughts on this.

[@brandonacker]

Thanks for the question, William. I can only express my personal feelings here: no other instrument does this. Meaning, if you asked a violinist to play a melody that was from a harpsichord part they would enhance it with the idioms of the violin not play it mechanically. No one should imitate the mechanistic sound of a harpsichord. My friends who play the instrument tell me they are imitating lutes and the voice. If they could sound more like us, they would. Why would you imitate a flaw? So in my view, each instrument should use their idioms and techniques to make something new, not do a poor impression of another instrument. I hope that makes sense!

[@1firstguitar]

​@@brandonacker Brandon, thank you for your response on this. It's really made me try to come to terms with your point of view. I apologize in advance for the length of the below--it's a topic that just kept getting deeper the more I thought about it. I tend to hear cross-string trills as a quite natural realization of keyboard trilling when playing a transcription to guitar. To me it sounds appropriately similar--and you've mentioned yourself it sounds pretty impressive as a technique. Nevertheless you're arguing that it makes a poor impression. I, like you, would not use 2-string trills in transcriptions of works from other stringed instruments (eg, violin partitas, 'cello suites), and that includes even the so-called "lute suites" here just on the stylistic basis, as these sound more like lute than keyboard pieces. I agree with you to this extent. But I'd like to explore this issue a little more below, as it is certainly relevant given the current growing acceptance of 2-string trilling within the guitar community. The other position you seem to endorse is that the Baroque aesthetic only begrudgingly tolerated such two-note-sustained executions of trill figures at all--in which case I agree, "Why would you imitate a flaw"? Yes, why do this if it only detracts from the pure authentic experience of Baroque music! So . . (leaving aside its mechanistic sound for the moment) we should regard the trilling capacity of the harpsichord as a musical deficiency, a flaw--and it was also regarded as such during the Baroque period? But wouldn't the ubiquitous presence of the harpsichord as a continuo instrument in Baroque ensemble--where trilling is part of the style-- affirm its sound as an intrinsic and accepted component of the Baroque idiom? I had never known that harpsichordists were dissatisfied with the musical execution of trills on their instrument. But I'm not a Baroque scholar--so maybe I just don't understand this point about trills due to my lack of familiarity with the style. (I do realize the lute had a significant continuo role as well; maybe in larger ensembles the louder harpsichord was more practical--even though its choice was somewhat of a musical compromise?) Though handicapped in its lack of dynamic gradation and vibrato capacity, the harpsichord's mechanistic sound production also allows for brilliant execution of music more complex and at faster tempos than is practical on a guitar. And it still allows for musicality and expression through its different keyboards with different choirs of strings, musical phrasing and (restrained) rubato (even vibrato in the case of the clavichord). Certainly not as a general rule, but I can imagine playing certain Baroque keyboard works--or sections of them-- "in the style of" a harpsichord to interesting effect (eg, playing staccato, employing different timbres). I have even played in a guitar ensemble where we played the transcribed continuo part with chords lightly strummed with the back of the nails to sound like a harpsichord. (I don't mean to lecture you here, I'm just trying to add some helpful context for this discussion.) Then to follow up on your comment of using the idiom and technique of each instrument to make something new, could we not argue that cross-string trilling on the guitar is such a new idiomatic development? I would suggest that cross-string trills on guitar do successfully mimic how trills sound as played on a keyboard. As you know, trills can be executed with rhythmic flexibility on either instrument, and so not heard strictly mechanically. Trills can be executed with rhythmic flexibility on a harpsichord, and so--even as we acknowledge the inflexibility of the internal plucking mechanism inside--trills are not heard as simply mechanistic under the fingers of an expressive player. Granted, the harpsichord strings are plucked, the guitar notes are articulated differently, with more variability in dynamic and timbre. So musically, arguably a mimicry that even improves upon the original! I don't see how this is a " poor impression." Finally, I feel that no other instrument can imitate the sound of a harpsichord simply because no other instruments other than plucked string instruments such as the guitar, lute or harp are capable of doing so. I don't think saying "no other instrument does this" is a reason to disparage the practice of these instruments doing so. Given all the above, i guess you wouldn't accept that cross-string trilling on the guitar has the advantage of creating an executed sound desirable within the Baroque aesthetic. I admit that my ear likes the sound of the 2-string trills in transcriptions of sonatas and other keyboard works. My knowledge of the style is so far not developed enough to hear such trills as inappropriate. But I, like you, am a purist at heart, and sincerely want to create and experience music within its own artistic integrity. I'm open to discovering that place. Haven't taken your workshop yet. Maybe that's my next step! I do so appreciate your willingness to take on these topics in a public forum. Your videos and commentary have added so much of value to all guitarists. Thank you for reading and any further comments you might wish to add.

[@fernanmas1779]

I've read from Jordi Savall that vibrato is forbidden on early music. At same time he said that instruments where trying to copy the human singing. Conclusion: in his recordings, you can hear a lot of human voices (mainly his wife Montserrat Figueres) vibrating a lot her voice. 🤔Contradictory, no?

[@brandonacker]

Jordi certainly never said this. It is well known that vibrato was used in the baroque period and he uses it as an ornament on gamba. The difference is baroque players and singers use it more sparingly than 19th century players.

[@fernanmas1779]

@@brandonacker I read that in an interview they did with him on a magazine in the nineties. Also, I have to say that he was referring to the Renaissance viola, not so much the Baroque one. Perhaps, until Monteverdi and not so much until Bach or Telemann. In all this time, his assumptions may have changed.

[@littlepink3247]

Hi Brandon, I'm a Baroque music lover in China. Own Alhambra guitar and a harpsichord. I saw your 14 course archlute video months ago. I was very impressed. Tried to contact Jose through email but he didn't reply. Tried to find the instrument online but nope. How shall I approach the instrument?😃

[@brandonacker]

Hi, sorry but all I can do is give his contact information out. I can't make him answer messages.

[@LukeSilverstar1000]

Came for the music, stayed for the most calming person I think I’ve ever heard. Brandon, do you just have anxiety-riddled people follow you around trying to absorb whatever this Zen Buddhist calm is that you radiate? 😅

[@ClassicalGuitarist]

Hi Brandon, Bach had a lute player who played his compositions. His name was Eikhorn. I'm not sure of the spelling but it means acorn in German. Anyhow, I assume Bach used the Lautenwerk to compose for the lute and his friend Eikhorn. After all theorbos were common and lautenwerks were not common.

[@uhoh007]

Great Video. For more revelations on historical practice Nikhil Hogan has in depth interviews with current scholars, like Gjerdingen and Baragwanath, where historical practice teaching methods are discussed in detail. Derek Remes has a free award winning PHD thesis on Bach's teaching and many other resources.

[@KarenPautz]

Not a myth but a noob question regarding ornamentation: when you're playing with others -- duet, small group, or accompanying a soloist -- do you have a discussion beforehand regarding ornamentation? For instance, when I watch (and watch and rewatch) your video with Reginald Mobley ("VOCAL ORNAMENTATION like you've never heard before") you play no ornamentation, which seems appropriate. But then I watch your video with Jon Wasserman ("A duet on two theorbos") and it seems like you both have fun with ornamentation. Is it written into the score, or are you just making it up as you go along? I anticipate an "it depends" answer and that's fine. ;-)

[@brandonacker]

Good question, Karen! When playing continuo you don't do melodic ornaments as much. In that duet, we both had a melody. It's melodies that should be heavily ornamented

[@jouniteittinen9299]

Thanks for the wonderful videos! Have you tried a 11-stringed bolin guitar for baroque music -- if so, I'm curious to hear your take on that type of instrument?

[@mr88cet]

Yes, very reasonable, thanks! Clearly it’s indeed true that JS Bach wrote the Lute Suites _on_ the Lautenwerck. He had two of them in his estate catalogued after his death, so obviously he loved that instrument! However, that doesn’t _necessarily_ mean that he didn’t write them with transcription to lute in mind. The lute has always been a much-more-common instrument, and IIRC, Silvius Leopold Weiss promptly took up that transcription challenge.

[@katkat4986]

just a few more savings and i can finally pay for your classes!!!

[@_Chuvisco_]

Julian Bream, of course!

[@CookyOfficial]

Oh hey I'm really early! Been loving this type of content Brandon thank you so much for these videos and educating and leaving us thinking!

[@phoenixlandingstudio6594]

Very interesting video, thank you.

[@jameslouder]

This is a fine video and a much-needed corrective to myths-or might we better call them superstitions?-that should have been laid to rest long ago. I know few people serious about HIP who believe these things, but I’ve known lots of less-than-serious folks who have swallowed them whole. The latter, so far from taking early music seriously, tend to think of HIP as a bunch of gimmicks, musical gew-gaws you can cut and paste into your performance and presto-changeo-authenticity! I’ve found classical guitarists to be among the worst offenders-but maybe that’s only because I used to play the instrument. Time was when I probably entertained a few such notions myself…but that was fifty years ago, when if you’d studied the contents of Parrish & Ohl, you could pass yourself off as a musicologist. Today, nobody has any excuse, unless it’s to blame it on their teacher-where indeed the blame often does lie.

[@waterfirecards5128]

Damn really enjoyed the video, really interesting, nice g.

[@TheGuitarsquatch]

The Lautenwerk looks like it's out of Alice in Wonderland. I definitely have to go look for videos of one being played.

[@Brian_1597_of_Nazareth]

...as you went from myth to myth, I found I've actually never thought about that questions - but in each and every case I would intuitivly given the exact same answer in advance - without ever having done any scientific historical research about it. The most obvious answer can often be the best also... Interesting that Bach never wrote for lute, new, but also not astonishing to me - given, that the puzzle parts of Baroque composers are so often found spread out through their whole work. Reuse and transcripts were part of their craftsmanship. It was no shame to be not always unique. Many Bach "lute" works appear not only in one other version. So which was first, who really called it "for lute" at which time first - and does it matter, if you want to enjoy it? By the way - many of Bach's works, especially for solo instruments, may have been in fact by his ingenious wife. It somehow was a family company and his name at that time sold better than hers... About "genuine practice": In my childhood the "switched on Bach" LP came out. My parents discussed "what if Bach had a sythesizer?". They decided, he would have liked it... And what, if he had a modern piano, an actual guitar? I think it's more than o.k. to transcribe for any of those in the absence of the master himself 😂. I'm glad that's all in careful artist's hands and can be handled freely also.

[@pobah341]

One thing a teacher told me to do in the the past for Baroque music was to try to play ascending/descending scale passages across strings to intentionally introduce some of that ringing over effect you mention. I'm guessing that would fall under the same myth?

[@brandonacker]

Yes that is a modern idea that doesn't match how people played at the time.

[@bxyify]

I have heard that the vibrato by singers and instrumentalists that don't play fretted/fixed tone instruments like violin, cello, wood-blow instruments etc, used that vibrato to "cover up" slight impurities in their tone. So you'd like vibrate the tone around that note that's actually there so it's never sounding off or wrong. Is this true?

[@brandonacker]

This is not why singers use vibrato. It's a naturally occurring phenomenon for singers. It adds beauty and life to a note. Instrumentalists imitate it for that reason.

[@oreally8605]

Oh, to incorporate these teachings into my Christian pop songs. I believe it can be done. Embellishments and ornaments are key. Thank you.

[@StephenBrennanGuitar]

I've always read and heard the idea that improvisation was done within a boundary - fixed key and chord structure including modulations but was mostly done during live performances and practice, in ensembles performances it may have almost been like playing in jazz quartet or larger to a chart where each person takes a solo. Additionally Baroque, with some forms of extended improvisation it seems that perhaps the improvisations may have extended to improvising on core and structural and harmonic aspects also (but the complexities of this means that it was likely confined to solo keyboard live/rehearsed performances). All that said I haven't seen this concept extended to written compositions and seeing that Bach detailed his compositions I don't see embellishments on Bachs written music (or any clearly defined written work) as particularly wise. In fact it seems that this misconception has lead some people to postulate the idea that Bachs pieces are simply vehicles for exploration - this is clearly wrong. The have a defined score, therefore sticking to all the written notes seems wisest to me.

[@brandonacker]

They are a couple of points that need correcting here: Improvisation was an intrinsic part of the music. If you aren't doing it, you aren't fulfilling the intentions of baroque composers who necessarily wrote in short hand. Some like Bach were more explicit but as I say in the video, its not a debate, it would be unstylstic to not add to what Bach wrote. I guarantee you he did when he performed.

[@StephenBrennanGuitar]

@@brandonacker I've seen documentaries chart that students during the baroque period were expected to be able to improvise - even fugues, or fugue like motifs (extraordinary to imagine). And it's been recorded that improvisation was, as you say, very much in line with the spirit of how music was rehearsed and performed. But I'm unsure as to what implications, if any, that has to any final composed piece and surely composed and titled pieces were written down a reason? So there appears to be some form of misconception or at least conflation between practice / live performance and say the recital of a composed work. I'm not finding much convincing corroboration that supports the idea that one would be expected to add anything during a recital of another composers piece. Adding trills/ornaments to certain sections seems pretty pointless and hardly counts as improvisation either? It's a fascinating subject - I shall go away and research further.

[@brandonacker]

@@StephenBrennanGuitar ah I see what you mean. It does feel as if writing things down and paper turn an improvisation into a monolithic, finished work. However, this is a more modern idea. When you read the sources from the time they literally tell you that this is not the case. The composers write in a way that will be understood by players at the time who understood "good taste" and that means they didn't write down the things that everyone already knew to do (like breathing for example). Everyone knew to embellish the melodies with improvisatory graces/ trills because they add charm to the music. So composers wrote in a sort of short hand. Again it is a spectrum. Some wrote almost nothing and expected you to do a lot and some took more control like Bach. But all baroque composers understood that the piece wasn't to be played literally as written for that would be bad taste

[@rosiefay7283]

3:59 Those slurs across notes to be played on different strings --- are they phrasing slurs, then, or a general "legato" indication, rather than articulation slurs?

[@brandonacker]

Good question, for Kapsberger he certainly means them as slurs. When you have to cross a string it sometimes means you have to restrike although you actually don't always have to. You can hammer on to a new string without replucking too.

[@Karamazov9]

I think the HIPP movement is really cool and it’s great to see these techniques come back but at the same time I am hearing a lot of this idea that the “historically accurate” way is the only correct way, so that now people say things like how it’s wrong to play Bach on the piano etc. The point of music is to express yourself as an artist, there’s no such thing as one single right way of doing things.

[@brandonacker]

Of course how you approach music depends on what you are after. If you say, I'd like to play the music in a way that a composer in the Baroque period would approve of, there are right and wrong answers. Therefore, I say cross string trills (in the way modern players do them) is "wrong" because it is not historical. However, if you do not care about historicity and are just trying to emote through an instrument, the sky is the limit. I myself play HIP performances where I try to get as close as possible to the historical approach (gut strings, style, improvisation, etc...) and then I'll make a fun video playing lute to a metal track.

[@claude7473]

Awesome !!!

[@zDonaldson1]

Giuliani does say that cross string trills are preferable in his Op. 1, so maybe they would be applicable in romantic/classical repertoire.

[@brandonacker]

Yes there are some cross string trills in later styles but I don't think we can then bring those anachronstically into earlier styles

[@zDonaldson1]

@@brandonacker agreed

[@theolympiyn8670]

As someone who knows nothing about classical guitar or wind instruments or much of stuff like that. The myth “don’t use slurs in baroque music” caught me so off guard

[@urzathehappy72]

wow rly intresing bout bachs lute works. never seen that lute piano

[@StarQueenEstrella]

“You should never ornament Bach” perplexes me. Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t J.S. Bach known as a virtuosic improviser of the keyboards (and possibly the violin?) in his lifetime?

[@brandonacker]

Exactly.

[@derbar7051]

Interesting that the vibrator symbol looks like a sharp accidental.

[@MrFancyFingers]

Baroque guitar should never use a whammy bar. 😊

[@Kylora2112]

You know Bach would rock a Floyd Rose and a Sustainiac if those existed in the 17th century :)

[@arkher11]

I slur a lot when trying to play baroque music, and sorry but Im not planning on stopping anytime soon haha

[@masamune..]

3:24 this was around the time Sting was getting deep into the topic

[@kanalbenenner7830]

Brandon, did you ever felt pain in your life, you look and feel so in tune with beauty, like an angel figurine embedded in the walls of a church.

[@kirbymarchbarcena]

It's fun debunking things lime these myths

[@christerfurberg6538]

Speaking of vibrato, do you use flattement when you play the lute? It's quite common in French viol music

[@brandonacker]

To my understanding, that technique works on some winds and gamba but not on lutes and guitars. Are only vibrato is the pushing and pulling of a string to raise and lower the pitch around the central note.

[@yanair2091]

I believe the J. S. Bach's "lute" suites were written for the instrument called Lauten-Clavi-Cembalo. But I might be completely wrong.

[@brandonacker]

Everything I've read suggest it is the lautenwerk or lute-harpsichord.

[@dw7704]

Could you explain why the harpsichord is not to imitated for its musical qualities? I have always loved the harpsichord

[@brandonacker]

It is well known amongst harpsichord players that their instrument has expressive limitations. It can't change volume and therefore sounds mechanical. There is something I actually like about its mechanical sound and its great for improvising and for harmony and rhythm while playing continuo.

[@dw7704]

@@brandonacker I have heard it’s lack of dynamics was a downfall way back when Still would love to have one if I had the space for one and the money to get one Thanks for answering

[@virginielafrench3921]

@@brandonacker what you say is true . You can play much more différent things on a piano . Something like Haendel 's Sarabande would not sound strange on a piano ( i did it ) but " Clair de lune " de Debussy on a harpsichord....oh my god ....what would it sound like ? 🤔

[@ashervijayyampolsky7759]

Thank you for this! What is the piece played at the end of video???

[@saulvalencia2582]

Mr. Acker. What’s harder to master/learn, the electric or classical guitar?

[@brandonacker]

Classical without a doubt.

[@themedallostoryteller1105]

Nice video Brandon! One thing I wanted to ask is: If my goal is to switch to a guitar with gut strings on the future (when I have enough money) should I get used to play without nails? Since I've hear nails sound weird on gut strings

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

Pretty sure Brandon just did a video where he talks about exactly that. If I remember correctly, he said that most classical guitarists say it's best to have nails on the picking hand, but Brandon said that he's done both and these days is *not* using nails. Regardless, there is nothing wrong, and often everything right with doing things that work best for you. Generally speaking with any art form, being yourself is what most people respond to.

[@brandonacker]

All guitarists, nail and no nail, used gut until the 1940s. I love the sound of nail on gut as well. It comes down to taste.

[@Aa-nk8qb]

David Russell must be upset about the comments on the two-string trills

[@brandonacker]

He is an incredible musician and I respect him greatly but it's clearly an anachronism.

[@robinbibeau1347]

​@@brandonacker The question I have is that you mention Bach never composed music for the lute. So wouldn't playing Bach on the guitar be anarchronistic in general? Why rule out cross string trills for being anachronistic when Bach never even composed anything for the guitar in the first place?

[@brandonacker]

@@robinbibeau1347 I really am not a fan of this mentality. Yes, the classical guitar didn't exist at Bach's time, so now what? We are just going to pick and choose how we play arbitrarily? I think most guitarists do care about playing stylistically in a way Bach would have recognized. If you do care, then you should avoid as many anachronisms as you can. If you don't care then go ahead and play it through a Marshall amp with distortion and a whammy bar if it makes you happy.

[@robinbibeau1347]

Thank you for the response. Personally if someone plays Bach through a distorted Marshall and they perform it at a high level then I really don't have a problem. We will never know 100% how Bach intended his compositions to be played so to me that gives a degree of artistic license to performing his music, especially on the guitar. On a personal level, yes there may be some stylistic things that we may feel aren't "appropriate" for the time period, but we will never fully know and for me I'd rather hear a performer's unique interpretation of Bach rather than someone who is trying to play it entirely the way Bach would've intended which in my opinion is impossible. Regardless, I love to hear your thoughts on it. I've been a longtime fan of your content and I know you've studied this music a lot longer than I have and I respect that.

[@brandonacker]

@@robinbibeau1347 Thanks for sharing your opinion, Robin. I agree with you that I actually have liked some metal Bach arrangements and have made some myself ;) I'm not a purist in that regard. What I would say is that we know more than you allude to here. We know what ornaments were used, that you were meant to improvise, that the score is contains only part of what you should play, that vibrato was considered an ornament not a constant, that lutes used lots of slurs and not the cross string trills guitarists use today, we know what they considered good and bad taste, that their explicit goal was to move the listeners emotions with rhetorical playing.. etc.. This is just scratching the surface. The common excuse that we can't know with 100% accuracy is very misleading in my view because we do know so much. So if you want to stick to Bach's intentions, avoid cross-string trills and playing without slurs. If you don't care what is historical, do whatever makes you happy!

[@osmanaksoy9862]

Dear Brandon. Thanks for this video. What is the piece which you play in the beginning of trills section (5:30)?

[@brandonacker]

An improvising based on the folia de espana

[@SufyMusic]

I am just wondering if you have a playlist of your own compositions? I know you talked about improvisations your oud video 🌌

[@brandonacker]

Thanks for your interest 🙂 I improvise within a baroque style but do not really compose. However id like to compose at some point so stay tuned!

[@chuckaddison5134]

Many years ago, decades really, my piano teacher stated that German music was meant to be played EXACTLY as written. No variation in tempo, ornamentation or anything else.

[@brandonacker]

That is sad and uninformed.

[@MarkyD.Ingram]

I'd really like to hear your take on a player named Alan Mearns. He has his own original work that I appreciate greatly, but he also, not too long ago, released his interpretation of several Bach pieces on guitar named "Sei Solo Works by J.S. Bach" which I believe to be easily some of the best, at least for guitar, he adds many different voices that aren't written and often with great effect. Either way, great video looking forward to more. :D

[@brandonacker]

I'm interested in playing baroque music in a historical way and music performances from that period based on how stylistic they are. He is not playing in a Baroque style (uses cross string trills, no beat hierarchy, etc) so its not something I'd personally listen to.

Total agree ❤

[@Bob_Greasy_The_3rd]

I love his voice.